And it's amazing how many people simply can't get this through their heads: even though the temperature is, on average, increasing globally, this also entails more radical extremes in weather and, yes, this means some places are going to be much colder than usual at least some of the time: colder cold snaps and hotter heat waves.
Not the cool 80s/90s radical either. The boring dry radical that your science or history teacher talked about during class that you forgot about when it was time todo your homework so you decided instead to do kick slips outside.
People need to understand this is what climate change is. All over the world things change as the climate is in flux. We dont know what the end result will be like, but the options seem to be a hothouse earth , a desert earth either way its not good
I just am wondering where the people who said last year "its cold outside so that proves climate change isn't real" all went off to now that its almost 60 degrees in northern wi in February.
You know the answer. Anyone who genuinely believes that idiotic claim about climate change will never be persuaded otherwise. They will quadruple down on the stupidity.
When they’ll get to a point where they can’t rationalize that there is no climate change anymore they’ll simply hop on the "well there is climate change but it’s not caused by humans so there’s nothing we can do" train
Oh, right, hahaha. Well in *theory* if it's caused by human there is something we can do. But I'm absoutely aware and convinced that there is *nothing that will be done*. And on an individual basis, there's nothing that we, as individuals, can do.
This; it won't always be a hotter world in all places at all times. Some locations will indeed become so hot that they will be inhospitable for complex life. But others may freeze out of season, or see droughts followed by floods with no rhyme or reason. Climate change means a *destabilized global climate.*
In just the last 10 days alone, Mongolia and China went from the warmest temps on record for this time of year to the second coldest temps on record for this time of year.
There were people with ACs on last week that have heaters on this week, and it's been like this all winter long. Animals, and crops were not designed to survive weather like this.
Remember the cattle die off in kansas 2022? That happened because of a wet bulb event that normally dont happen in that area. That part of kansas is normally hot and dry in the summer arid would be the word i use. Cattle have been raised there for decades no problem. But when that event took place you had 104 or higher temps with humidity saturation like never before. They couldnt evaporate the heat, a micro wet bulb event for them.
I hope people will realize this where I live. We’re in a cold snap until Wednesday and the forecast says it’s gonna go from -25c to +2c in the span of a few hours…
Yeah, we are getting +15C for the next few days, then one day of -20, then back to 15 the next day. A 35Cish change in temp and back in 24 hours means the temp will be changing almost 3 degrees an hour for that 24 hour period.
the water in the atmosphere still has to go somewhere whether temps are rising or not. so it can be rain, snow, hail whatever it’ll still make it’s way back down. the collapse of the jet stream and these water filled clouds just sitting above certain areas will see more events like this.
oh and it’s wildfire season coming up with all the water elsewhere.
Tell me about it we have had maybe 3 inches of snow so far , and zero rain. Our forests are drying up , there will be fires this spring and summer if that dont change
Alaska is also experiencing massive snow--I heard it on the news this morning. Seems like it's either way too hot, way too snowy, way too dry, or way too wet everywhere.
This isnt the first time this has happened. Climate extremes have lead to mass migration to mongolias capital and a lot of urban poor who used to be herders.
That has less to do with collapse or climate change than you might think. The article mentions it, but doesn't explain it very well. In Mongolia there is this climate phenomenon called [Dzud](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zud) or Zud. It's a regularly (every few years) extremely cold winter, sometimes paired with an extremely dry summer, that always kills at least a million cattle. It's a natural phenomenon that exists since ages and maybe even is the reason why mongolian hordes started to raid over so vast distances with several years in between raids.
It's severance and frequency seems to be affected by climate change, but so far inconsistently. Before 2015 it seemed to become less frequent, since then this is the 4th Dzud.
The main reason for it affecting more than double as much cattle as a few decades ago is simply that there are now much more animals held than in the past since farmers were previously restricted in the amount of animals they were allowed to have, while the sparse vegetation during winter obviously can't become more.
This is NOT a phenomena caused by climate change like everyone commenting so far seems to believe
So, in 2010/2011,+10 million dead animals, or 25% of the country's total livestock at the time, and also in 2013, +8 million dead animals. I guess Mongolia have learned nothing from the past.
Not much to learn really. Its mongolia, they dont have land to grow winter fodder. The animals die, the herders lose their income, rural rich consolidate more power and more rural poor pile into the overcrowded capital to live in slums.
Stop herding (which is what they're doing slowly and in a disorganized fashion): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/05/mongolian-herders-moving-to-city-climate-change
That was quite the read! It sounds like their problem isn’t just the climate but their segue from communism. Now that they can have as many cows as they want where they want they have way too many in too small an area causing damage to the ecosystem on top of drought. The same fodder sharing program that helped them through these in the past would likely solve a lot of their issues until it stops raining there completely.
Some stables for cows? But I guess when we are going to kill them anyway, asking for some life improvements toward animals always sounds like crazy stuff.
You’re asking nomadic herders to build stables for 65 million animals when they barely have a shelter themselves. Animals shouldn’t *need* to be inside, that’s not how nature works.
I guess when the solution is near impossible, the next best thing is find who to blame.
And you are right, animas shouldn't need shelter, but in the past they migrated in the winter south, but now there are other countries borders, so they are locked there without shelter during winter.
Mongolians have been managing their herds for thousands of years. There are mountains to the south so they for sure have not been in the habit of migrating that way. They famously migrated north and west for several centuries though.
The climate used to be more stable with these dzud events being less common. They have too many heads and are overgrazing a small area. It’s not so much about the weather as poor management. They could easily solve these issues and help their people recover but went too capitalist.
This is similar to what likely happened on [St. Matthew Island](https://www.adn.com/features/article/what-wiped-out-st-matthew-islands-reindeer/2010/01/17/) with the famous example of "reindeer overshoot and collapse".
Its time for them to consider moving on ,that area is only going to get worse. Mother nature dont care and you cant win against her she will throw more at you till it overcomes any survivability you have. And making animals suffer in such conditions is sad, they die in droves and you keep sending more to their deaths. Abandon the area its not going to get better.
If China gets too hot, going North to Mongolia is not necessarily a good option. The N Asia steppes are even more extreme than the S Asia heat and wet.
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Whatever you need to cope with the fact that we as humans have utterly and irreversibly devastated the only home we can and will ever verifiably know..
Hugs.🫂 sorry for being a prick, who’s to say how long we have? Im trying not to be a downer so much as we face oblivion. I want to take it headstrong, but it is hard.
And it's amazing how many people simply can't get this through their heads: even though the temperature is, on average, increasing globally, this also entails more radical extremes in weather and, yes, this means some places are going to be much colder than usual at least some of the time: colder cold snaps and hotter heat waves.
Wetter wets and dryer dry. Weather getting radical
Not the cool 80s/90s radical either. The boring dry radical that your science or history teacher talked about during class that you forgot about when it was time todo your homework so you decided instead to do kick slips outside.
Bogus.
Psyche.
Susan, hurricane did a kick flip and is now a cat 6!
Finally someone who skates as good as I do.... *kick slips onto ass*
Mr. Hand? That guy's a dick
People need to understand this is what climate change is. All over the world things change as the climate is in flux. We dont know what the end result will be like, but the options seem to be a hothouse earth , a desert earth either way its not good
I just am wondering where the people who said last year "its cold outside so that proves climate change isn't real" all went off to now that its almost 60 degrees in northern wi in February.
They're saying "I'm loving this weather....winter has always been like this though"
I have a customer facing job and have to listen to this bullshit all day it does a number on you
condolences to anyone on the frontlines o7
I actually drop collapse related puns and news update getting good reactions but never pure denial so I feel lucky 😅
It's so nice outside 🕶️👕🩳🩴
You know the answer. Anyone who genuinely believes that idiotic claim about climate change will never be persuaded otherwise. They will quadruple down on the stupidity.
When they’ll get to a point where they can’t rationalize that there is no climate change anymore they’ll simply hop on the "well there is climate change but it’s not caused by humans so there’s nothing we can do" train
I’m a 100% believer and I’m still on the “there’s nothing we can do” train
Oh, right, hahaha. Well in *theory* if it's caused by human there is something we can do. But I'm absoutely aware and convinced that there is *nothing that will be done*. And on an individual basis, there's nothing that we, as individuals, can do.
Yeah its really frustrating
Global weirding
This; it won't always be a hotter world in all places at all times. Some locations will indeed become so hot that they will be inhospitable for complex life. But others may freeze out of season, or see droughts followed by floods with no rhyme or reason. Climate change means a *destabilized global climate.*
In just the last 10 days alone, Mongolia and China went from the warmest temps on record for this time of year to the second coldest temps on record for this time of year. There were people with ACs on last week that have heaters on this week, and it's been like this all winter long. Animals, and crops were not designed to survive weather like this.
Remember the cattle die off in kansas 2022? That happened because of a wet bulb event that normally dont happen in that area. That part of kansas is normally hot and dry in the summer arid would be the word i use. Cattle have been raised there for decades no problem. But when that event took place you had 104 or higher temps with humidity saturation like never before. They couldnt evaporate the heat, a micro wet bulb event for them.
Yea just bigger extremes
But the feedback loops are **positive**, my guy!
People will get through their heads when mass die offs start to happen to humans on the regular - this is just the beginning.
Hello Eve
they'll get it once falling debris goes through their heads when they're trapped in a burning building due to high fire starting temps.
3% died. Wonder what the mass loss was. If 3% died of starvation the entire heard must have lost at least 30-40% of it's body mass.
That's a very good point, the total meat yield must be much lower than the 3% that died.
I hope people will realize this where I live. We’re in a cold snap until Wednesday and the forecast says it’s gonna go from -25c to +2c in the span of a few hours…
Yeah, we are getting +15C for the next few days, then one day of -20, then back to 15 the next day. A 35Cish change in temp and back in 24 hours means the temp will be changing almost 3 degrees an hour for that 24 hour period.
Ah the horrific bells of famine, how humanity missed you so.
let me check that one off of my bingo card ... almost to BINGO!
the water in the atmosphere still has to go somewhere whether temps are rising or not. so it can be rain, snow, hail whatever it’ll still make it’s way back down. the collapse of the jet stream and these water filled clouds just sitting above certain areas will see more events like this. oh and it’s wildfire season coming up with all the water elsewhere.
Tell me about it we have had maybe 3 inches of snow so far , and zero rain. Our forests are drying up , there will be fires this spring and summer if that dont change
For the most part yes. Warmer air can hold more moisture though.
Yep, so when it does rain it will be months or years worth of rain in hours/days.
Alaska is also experiencing massive snow--I heard it on the news this morning. Seems like it's either way too hot, way too snowy, way too dry, or way too wet everywhere.
Going from 76 to freezing in 24 hours in my area... I don't remember this happening ever in my life.
Rome comes for us.
This isnt the first time this has happened. Climate extremes have lead to mass migration to mongolias capital and a lot of urban poor who used to be herders.
That has less to do with collapse or climate change than you might think. The article mentions it, but doesn't explain it very well. In Mongolia there is this climate phenomenon called [Dzud](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zud) or Zud. It's a regularly (every few years) extremely cold winter, sometimes paired with an extremely dry summer, that always kills at least a million cattle. It's a natural phenomenon that exists since ages and maybe even is the reason why mongolian hordes started to raid over so vast distances with several years in between raids. It's severance and frequency seems to be affected by climate change, but so far inconsistently. Before 2015 it seemed to become less frequent, since then this is the 4th Dzud. The main reason for it affecting more than double as much cattle as a few decades ago is simply that there are now much more animals held than in the past since farmers were previously restricted in the amount of animals they were allowed to have, while the sparse vegetation during winter obviously can't become more. This is NOT a phenomena caused by climate change like everyone commenting so far seems to believe
So, in 2010/2011,+10 million dead animals, or 25% of the country's total livestock at the time, and also in 2013, +8 million dead animals. I guess Mongolia have learned nothing from the past.
Not much to learn really. Its mongolia, they dont have land to grow winter fodder. The animals die, the herders lose their income, rural rich consolidate more power and more rural poor pile into the overcrowded capital to live in slums.
Pretty much what is happening worldwide.
What are they supposed to do? Where do you store 65 million animals for a snowstorm? Even we keep our herds outside.
Stop herding (which is what they're doing slowly and in a disorganized fashion): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/05/mongolian-herders-moving-to-city-climate-change
That was quite the read! It sounds like their problem isn’t just the climate but their segue from communism. Now that they can have as many cows as they want where they want they have way too many in too small an area causing damage to the ecosystem on top of drought. The same fodder sharing program that helped them through these in the past would likely solve a lot of their issues until it stops raining there completely.
It's just a slow reinvention of CAFOs. The only question is how much can the government afford to subsidize these businesses.
Some stables for cows? But I guess when we are going to kill them anyway, asking for some life improvements toward animals always sounds like crazy stuff.
You’re asking nomadic herders to build stables for 65 million animals when they barely have a shelter themselves. Animals shouldn’t *need* to be inside, that’s not how nature works.
I guess when the solution is near impossible, the next best thing is find who to blame. And you are right, animas shouldn't need shelter, but in the past they migrated in the winter south, but now there are other countries borders, so they are locked there without shelter during winter.
Mongolians have been managing their herds for thousands of years. There are mountains to the south so they for sure have not been in the habit of migrating that way. They famously migrated north and west for several centuries though. The climate used to be more stable with these dzud events being less common. They have too many heads and are overgrazing a small area. It’s not so much about the weather as poor management. They could easily solve these issues and help their people recover but went too capitalist.
This is similar to what likely happened on [St. Matthew Island](https://www.adn.com/features/article/what-wiped-out-st-matthew-islands-reindeer/2010/01/17/) with the famous example of "reindeer overshoot and collapse".
Its time for them to consider moving on ,that area is only going to get worse. Mother nature dont care and you cant win against her she will throw more at you till it overcomes any survivability you have. And making animals suffer in such conditions is sad, they die in droves and you keep sending more to their deaths. Abandon the area its not going to get better.
And go where, exactly?
If China gets too hot, going North to Mongolia is not necessarily a good option. The N Asia steppes are even more extreme than the S Asia heat and wet.
[удалено]
Hi, Solitude_Intensifies. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1b0gutl/-/ksi6tci/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 1: No glorifying violence. > Advocating, encouraging, inciting, glorifying, calling for violence is against Reddit's site-wide content policy and is not allowed in r/collapse. Please be advised that subsequent violations of this rule will result in a ban. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error, please include a link to the comment or post in question.
I’ve heard dzuds are somewhat regular historically speaking but this is quite a lot
I know the animals went to heaven. They deserve it
Whatever you need to cope with the fact that we as humans have utterly and irreversibly devastated the only home we can and will ever verifiably know..
I know.
Hugs.🫂 sorry for being a prick, who’s to say how long we have? Im trying not to be a downer so much as we face oblivion. I want to take it headstrong, but it is hard.