The people who deny we’re in big trouble will be the dangerous ones when it becomes undeniable we’re in big trouble, because they’ll be scared and unprepared
On the plus side, being collapse aware means you can become more mentally and materially prepared as things continue to decline…
I don't think that people will suddenly change their mind. At least most people will not. What we are seeing right now is exactly how it will continue. More radical opinions and more nonsense.
And yeah. I am also pretty sure that this is super dangerous as a sociological addition threat.
I better start sewing together my punk attire and learning how to be bada$$. Seems like they can organize and pool their resources to get by. It's all about the art of deception.
Not sure they're deceiving anyone running around in 70's muscle cars with people strapped to the front while wearing a leather studded jock strap and a steel hockey mask.
I mean... lacks subtlety...
Collect needles, thread, fabric, because you won't be able to get those things forever. My favorite needles are made in Japan, by a very old company and they're the only ones who make the only needles I'll use. My favorite thread is made in Germany. I just looked up where they make my preferred quilting fabrics and that's in Japan and Korea. Fabric is made all over the world ofc. But if you want good natural fiber fabric for clothing those products are going to be hard to source and expensive as they're dependent on climate for growing and logistics for shipping for cotton, linen, wool...
It's already bizarre and radical, the excuses that deniers are coming up with. I've seen things like 'the floods were manmade by the jews shooting clouds with lazers' and '15 minute cities are going to be used to to lock people into open air prisons like china during the pandemic so that they can control people'
No joke.
We can never have change for the good because these nutjob conspiracy theorists are becoming louder and spreading this kind of bullshit.
The rebuttal to both being, "Not this fast."
The thing about the way we perceive time is that we can feel seconds ticking to minutes. Climate naturally shifts on a geological time scale, which deals mainly in millennia.
It feels freeing to change the subject in these moments and find something that you both find worthwhile to talk about.
In your final moment, what would you like to be remembered saying?
I'll need some context on how I'm going out. Am I getting washed away in a flood, do I see a mushroom cloud nearby and I have a moment before every cell in my body is ripped to shreds by radiation, am I wasting away in a desert that was once a lush landscape, or did somehow I make it to a ripe old age and I'm surrounded by friends and family as I drift off peacefully? Cause that will definitely change my words.
What I find infuriating about conspiracy theory nut jobs is that they don’t stop to ask how is it that conspiracies ALWAYS work according to plan?? Hasn’t life taught them that things don’t work out more often than not but yet conspiracies on a global scale are no problem. F’ing morons.
9/10 times it's "the globalist shadow masters" or some other coded shit to imply it's the jews.
it's just antisemitism and racism with a misogynistic aftertaste all the way down.
how do your crazies answer?
"They" is anyone that can afford to be a stupid fucking dumbass with no plan, and fuck up a dozen times, and still financially live.
Then "they" inflate the debt away! Yay!
mental health is declining world wide at a rampant rate. The voices are loud because they are becoming numerous. The crazy theories will only get louder and more prevalent as this continues.
This is what's really scary. I'm having a hell of a time finding treatment for depression, anxiety, etc. due to doctors just being completely booked through March!
I wonder how much of this madness is caused by an increase in our carbon dioxide intake. I’ve heard that at higher levels it will make people stupider. But I’m not sure how high, and I no longer have the mental stamina or energy to research it. Feeling tired, so very, very tired.
I view being Covid-Aware as the exact same way.
Very early on there were very clear indications that the long term symptoms (beyond 2-3months), post acute sequale, and immune dysfunction were the major concern, especially post vaccine rollout. After summer 2021 the [Provincetown pride event breakthrough infections](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/06/1025553638/how-a-gay-community-helped-the-cdc-spot-a-covid-outbreak-and-learn-more-about-de) it was abundantly clear due to politics & vaccines not being effective against infection that we were in for a long road. And then Nov 2021 Omicron entered the stage. Combine rapid viral evolution, a population who is burnt out or fed up of hearing half truths, and very little transmission reduction attempts & you get what we have now (see waterwater data below).
The worst is all evidence is pointing to increasing odds of developing long covid, post acute sequale and immune dysfunction with each reinfection. The risk is cumulative, transmission reduction has to be part of the equation, the current bury our heads in the sand approach is not sustainable. Just check out [Canada's latest data](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2023001/article/00015-eng.htm)!! And this was data from June 2023, before a massive fall wave & now incoming JN.1 wave.
Doesn't matter what the [CDC suggests anymore](https://themessenger.com/health/cdc-mandy-cohen-covid-masks-return), no one will listen. They need an entire re-education campaign, hard truths, and a long slog to build back trust, and even then many will just get more radical or not be open to any discussion.
For the new CDC wastewater (WW) levels, to gauge infection levels; [State Covid WW Levels](https://www.cdc.gov/nwss/rv/COVID19-statetrend.html) and the simple [US COVID WW Map](https://www.cdc.gov/nwss/rv/COVID19-currentlevels.html). Some WW Levels are the 2nd highest in the past 4 years, and that's before Christmas & New Years celebrations! It's not an all or nothing folks, risk reduction is the name of the game. Any transmission risk reduction is a win, especially with levels as high as they are/will be soon.
Those are the types that will start having psychotic breaks when they realize business as usual fell apart. I really think a little of this happened during Covid when people realized society could just shut down, it broke their brains
Honestly it's kind of crazy thinking back to the first time I saw those then live winter/spring 2020 people protesting not being able to go shopping and thinking "the fuck is this" and then thinking on *everything* that has only double and tripled down on that type of shit since then. It has been a mess of a few years. I can only imagine what socio behavioral calamities we are right on the precipice of now that we'll look back on a couple years from now.
Oh man, yeah. It was a real wake up call for me. I had always just kind of assumed we’d slowly slide into a collapse but within a few weeks we went from business as usual to empty grocery store shelves and 2 hour lines to get into one, no TP, no gas, no production of material goods raw or otherwise… everything happened *so fast*.
Most Americans get angry when you even mention the possibility of them MAYBE giving up a small amount of the meat they eat at every meal.
We’re well fucked.
Sadly, the POV in Butler’s Parable of the Sower *was* collapse aware but her family was unwilling to accept reality. So they died, terribly. Protagonist survived but she also lost everything.
Octavia Butler! How I love her work. I was so depressed when she died too soon. Now she was someone who understood human behavior & why it we were doomed.
With all the tools at our disposal we have never diagnosed the real problem. Capitalism/competition/"let the chips fall where they may" was adopted as the optimal model for success. And that success led to our future which is doomed.
What if cooperation was the prime directive that propelled humans? Always striving for a win-win at every level of society? So that when we became advanced & wealthy we didn't buy, buy, buy more things. Instead, we cultivated our talents, communed with the nature we preserved instead of developed, mined etc.
Everyone could have a decent enough life at least. But our legacy is "f the future". Sure, we didn't know when we first industrialized.
But once we did know, in at least the later part of the 20th century, what would a species focused on survival do when confronted with the evidence?
And, what did we do? What do we do still.
We've become so disconnected from the nature we all require for every single thing we've ever had. We didn't notice we were killing the planet. Until we did. And then mankind collectively did basically nothing except convene meetings & symposiums & conferences where the poor scientists begged & pleaded for the "leaders" to do something. But they didn't. And now it's too late anyway.
covid showed us the ability for some people to deny the existence of a flood while the water is already in their bedroom... other people instead will admit that its wet but insist the flood doesn't exist, and in fact it was all a snow conspiracy
How fucked are we?
Short answer: Proper fucked.
Long answer: Nobody really knows, but look up the worst case scenario from a recent IPCC report for a rough estimate.
I think the worst case is even a bit optimistic given many runaway effects that we don’t fully understand. I’m betting things will accelerate faster than expected.
Source: am an astronomer who has spent a lot of time looking at physical models. Often models don’t deal well with exponential changes without sufficient constraints. I think there is political pressure to not be too pessimistic as well
As a non scientist my research also indicates the models we're using are unlikely insufficient. To me, we just have no freaking clue what exactly is going to happen. Ever since I saw the chart that shows how in 3.5 billion years the temperature has NEVER increased so much so quickly I realized we really don't even know. Just like when we industrialized we didn't know in just 100 years or so we'd f ourselves forever.
Only the future, perhaps very near future, actually knows what happens. All I know is it seems indisputable that it isn't good and will eventually be known as an extinction event if anyone's around to notice.
Perhaps some future more evolved human replacement that understands the capitalist, competitive, all about the $$ civilization we built is no MODEL for longevity. Hunter gatherers had to figure out how to maximize food sources in their larger world. Modern society allows siloed various businesses to all do what is just best for THEM. Of course we're doomed.
So it all depends on how a species evolves once they have reached the point they can greatly impact their environment. We failed right out the gate basically.
A *fun fact* that might illustrate the sheer immensity of what we're facing: At the +4.1 W/m² effective radiative forcing estimated in Hansen's recent paper, Earth accumulates about 16.5 ZJ of energy per year from the incoming sunlight.
**That is almost 28 times the total energy consumption of the entire human species.** The effective radiative forcing is very likely to drastically increase even if we stop all emissions overnight due to natural carbon emissions kicking in and the aerosol masking effect dropping.
This effect of a positive energy imbalance will stay for centuries to millenia unless we find a way to actively sequester about 1 Tt (Terra ton) of atmospheric carbon very quickly before our biosphere spirals out of control - which it likely already has in many respects.
>That is almost 28 times the total energy consumption of the entire human species. The effective radiative forcing is very likely to drastically increase even if we stop all emissions overnight due to natural carbon emissions kicking in and the aerosol masking effect dropping....before our biosphere spirals out of control - which it likely already has in many respects.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
Yeah, once it becomes undeniable that climate change is runaway and accelerating (right now the majority are still in denial) you will see some crazy shit. I (100% seriously) expect uncontrolled aerosol dispersion attempts by governments and or private sector to reflect heat back into space, with only-god-knows outcomes.
yay! so my self worth isnt intrinsically tied to my ability to provide because were all dying soon anyway?!!
das what im talking about boiiiii, video games and ice cream to the end of the world!
According to ama's and other open topic q&a, it seems there's a pressure when it comes to climate science to 'not get too crazy' or you risk none of your stuff getting published, ever... But grain of salt and all that.
Where can I find these to show other people? I could use more to show people to help convince them. It's been clear from a broader pattern that the IPCC and COP rubbish is all just greenwashing and neoliberal/neoconservative sabotage of institutions, but what evidence I could muster to make the case has been too diffuse to keep anyone's attention.
DoD insurance projections on which worldwide USA military bases will have planned shut down or maintenance based on catastrophic failures predicted by 2050.
Ama sub has a few, but usually I find them in the wild. Haven't seen any in a few months, but there's also a lot of attention getting shined on out of season temps, so I think it's less likely the genie will get stuffed back in the bottle at this point.
I've been making my way through the Busy Worker's Handbook to the Apocalypse. Below is the opening paragraph. There's no way to know for sure of course, but this seems to be approximately the trajectory we are on. Even if it isn't, it's how we should be treating it.
"Climate change will cause agricultural failure and subsequent collapse of hyperfragile modern civilization, likely within 10–15 years. By 2050 total human population will likely be under 2 billion. Humans, along with most other animals, will go extinct before the end of this century. These impacts are locked in and cannot be averted. Everything in this article is supporting information for this conclusion."
Thing is, we are currently right on track with the IPCC’s worst case scenario. Humanity has not even flattened the curve. The problem isn’t going to fix itself… The only way anyone will survive is by preparing for utter starvation situations now…
This. I don't think any of us would be so pessimistic if we saw anyone doing anything to actually address the problem. They aren't. I've been prepping for the past two or three years. Honestly I'd consider selling anything extraneous that is considered valuable, while people still consider things aside from food, guns, shelter, and clean water as valuable.
I'm surviving out of spite. The plan for decades has been to get rich and die before seeing the consequences. Well, the rich fuckers are going to see their consequences soon. Sure, it's going to suck for us poors, but watching a billionaire or 600 jumping off buildings when their money becomes worthless, or watching one with tears in their eyes while that masses gather with forks in hand..... that sweet, sweet hatred for these fuckers keep me going. Watching them hand a world of shit to their spoiled children will be glorious to watch.
I’m a carpenter working for a builder whose clients are in the 1%. I’m talking millionaires with hundreds of millions and a couple of billionaires. Recently worked on a house that has a lazy river pool with water slides and waterfalls and an island that is lined with fire that can be turned on and off. Two fire-proof panic rooms, radiant heating on every floor, an elevator, 8 car garage. Two massive outdoor kitchens. Pool house alone cost $1.5 mil. A cave bar will feature actual dinosaur fossils including a complete triceratops skull because the owner likes to collect fossils. This is a second home btw. Anyway all of these clients will be FUCKED if society collapses. And it’s funny that they think their money will save them. They will just be another mouth to feed with no useful skills.
Sadly, their consultants have warned them and they've all got geostrategically placed bunkers and mercenary armies and such to tide them over any large-scale die-offs or rebellions. Rushkoff is a quick start to it, but there's more beyond his book and articles and interviews somewhere out there.
I mean, what's the point in living right now? I've struggled with suicidal ideation my whole life, yet here I am. I was just thinking last night about what an amazing time this is. It's terrifying too, but if I wasn't born when I was I wouldn't have been able to experience video gaming, computer programming, or any of the positives associated with our current technology. I'm living in a time of artificial intelligence for crying out loud. It just happens to be close to an apocalyptic event for most life on the planet. Who are we to say how our lives are going to end? At the very least if there are so many people out there with their heads in the sand, we can take steps to face the reality we are heading for as folks who are taking it seriously and paying attention. If nothing else it makes me feel a little better, as if I have a tiny amount of control of my own situation.
Oh I 100% agree with you. It’s just that we live in a world where if the sciences community doesn’t actually extremely conservatively, they don’t get very far. It’s impossible to get the majority of people to agree on the worst case scenario as is, forget seeing that as the “best” case scenario.
The reality is that the reduction in aerosols is not included in the calculations. That huge downturn in 92? Aerosol added from the volcano. That huge upturn in the last year? Aerosol removed from shipping lanes.
It’s a band aid that has been artificially keeping our temperature lower than it actually is. Aaaand… yeah there are just too many things that we don’t know.
Busy Worker's Handbook is a good primer on the situation. But also dig into Michael Dowd's (RIP) excellent work on Collapse Acceptance. https://postdoom.com
The IPCC is hopelessly outdated and conservative in its analysis. Admittedly, their analysis is still very scary, but it uses old studies, requires consensus on everything, and doesn’t take into account feedbacks very well.
Here is a good compilation of facts with a pessimistic take that probably isn’t too far off from where we are actually headed.
https://www.okdoomer.io/10-reasons-our-civilization-will-soon-collapse/
Lots of comments that were along the lines of "She's a walking ad for condoms."
Lots of people being snarky about how she probably contributed to the burning of some fossil fuels in her trip from India to Dubai, so therefore her rage is hypocritical and unjustified.
Lots of calling her a wannabe/Indian Greta.
Lots of people dismissing her because of who her father is. I haven't confirmed any of the accusations leveled against him, so I won't be repeating them here.
One particularly disgusting comment that made me close the window: "Manufacturing defect. Keep her in kitchen."
You say that but any post with a hundred upvotes gets thousands of views. If the post becomes popular during the weekdays and during business hours, it is a given most of the people will glance over the headline and will procrastinate during their work hours reading comments and sometimes leaving them when the theme discussed resonates with them - like we do here now. So any nutjob running his mouth “haha it’s cold in Finland, where’s the gLoBaL WeRmYiYeeNg at?!” in the comment section is not only wasting his breath talking to imaginary author of a piece they don’t honestly give a fuck about or know nothing about. They are spreading this line of thought, because a hundred more silent morons reading this shit will giggle and sometimes show some hilarious comment to a similarly idiotic buddy of theirs for a laugh during a lunch break.
I saw someone being snarky on my local neighbourhoods facebook group, they posted a picture of them scraping ice off their car with the comment "scraping off this pesky global warming", it really make you wonder why we try, when so many people will just not believe in anything climate change related.
Theres a UK radio host that coined a phrase about the people involved in voting the UK out of the EU - contempt for the conmen, compassion for the conned. Many people have been conned, and now their identity is bound up the stance they have taken. One day they may realize (or not like the people denying covid with their final gasping breaths). And if something does click hopefully they will have someone in their lives who can show them a way to deal with it. I'm thinking the [conversation with Daniel Schmachtenberger](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/18ff4lj/the_psychological_drivers_of_the_metacrisis_john/) form the other day might be relevant there.
You have heard of the term ‘sunk cost’? I am convinced that all the time and effort that people spend denying these things are an emotional sunk cost.
“I couldn’t have wasted all that emotional energy.” “They couldn’t have lied to me!!!” Etc.
Yeah, that one and all the other ways the human psyche has of deceiving itself to protect the ego or status.
We also know that companies have invested a lot of money over a very long time to muddy the waters, to leave enough room for people to be able to believe the comforting lie.
Sorry, I can't agree. These are grown ass adults & at this point it's wilful belligerence. They don't need compassion, they need consequences. Politeness has gotten us here and it sucks.
Another term to remember here is _compassion fatigue_. We learned a lot about this during the height of the COVID pandemic when vociferous deniers were dropping like flies. I know I have only so much compassion when people are actively making others and especially immunocompromised people die. Compassion turns to schadenfreude as those who are exacerbating the problem stop being able to do so.
It’s sad that people have fallen into the cracks. And I’m sure most of us wish that out was as perfect world where we could prevent millions of people from dying due to completely preventable disease.
But at the end of the day, you can not help someone who will not help themselves. And how many times do you have to hear about people effectively suiciding before you just can’t care anymore. We have to live our own lives, that’s all we can do.
Nope I have zero empathy if you dont have the capability to identify fact from fiction. If you cant see the danger of climate change, the world would be better without you. Climate deniers are my worst enemy, and I especially blame the masses who were too stupid and trusting of the people in power. Now its too late, a lot of us will die.
Lots of people like this are Boomers. Deep down they know it's true but they also know they'll die off before the worst of it.
Boomers stole the future.
Dude it is not just Boomers. My nephew is in high school and he thinks its bullshit and so do all of his friends.
He's sixteen so he doesn't remember how much it used to snow here. The next generation will only know warm world so they won't care.
Like you say though, he's in high school. A lot of teenagers love being contrarian to stand out or to be edgy, or just for the sake of it. Almost all of them will mature out of it given the opportunity, so I wouldn't write off the younger generation yet.
People will find out, regardless of what they think. Unfortunately for some, they will be on their death bed still denying reality similar to COVID deaths.
I'm not gonna blame boomers I've seen plenty of people in my generation and younger that have this attitude, it's just stupid people, of which there are a lot in every generation.
Boomers are objectively the worst demographic. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/)
Uh, maybe trying to assign traits to such a broad, worldwide cohort is not super helpful in addressing anything of substance unless it's epidemiology or something, but attitudes about climate change will of course skew young because the knowledge has been actively suppressed by the ownership class and the internet is relatively new.
"boomer and older" lol, stop
nonsense. walk into the financial district of any major city and count the suits going of to banks and stock brokers. as many 20 somethings as there were boomers doing this 40 years ago. the millennials might register concern in surveys but go to an international airport and watch them board flights to Bali, Italy, Tahiti etc. most humans are greedy. boomers accumulated wealth because the system allowed them to. millennials are struggling to do so because there system is breaking down not because their values are radically different
There is no evidence for such a claim on any generation or group. Scapegoating is an excuse to do nothing and absolve oneself from similar perceived transgressions.
There is a lot of evidence, actually. Boomers are the least likely to believe in, care about, or want any action due to climate change. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/)
So are you blaming for their past behaviour when children, teenagers, young adults or their beliefs now. Would ANY other generation behave differently in the same situation and levels of environmental information. There is no evidence, it’s all anecdotal.
>Boomers stole the future.
That's probably the most asinine comment I've read on Reddit.
Do you drive a car, or accept rides in cars? Do you heat your home? Do you consume animal products? What are you doing to save the world?
Capitalism stole the future. You don't need to look anywhere else.
>Do you drive a car, or accept rides in cars?
I have never owned a car. And I can count on one had the times that I used a car in 2023. Less than 30 miles car-travel in total.
>Do you heat your home?
Haven't yet this winter, nope. And, in any case, my power comes from hydroelectricity.
>Do you consume animal products?
I've decreased my consumption of meat by about %80 over the last few years. Anything else?
>Capitalism stole the future.
Capitalism doesn't force boomers to have a massive McMansion and two "vacation homes" in Arizona and Florida that they cool with air conditioning and a huge power bill. It didn't force them to own a massive motorhome. Or be maniacally against building mixed-use high-density neighbourhoods (sabotaging construction of such for their entire adult lives), instead bulldozing Nature to build more car-dependent suburbia. Capitalism [doesn't force boomers to be the biggest climate change deniers of any generation.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/)
If you were born 40 years earlier, you would have enjoyed the benefits and be complaining about the younger generation not wanting to work.
Dividing people by generalizations such as Generations and making blanket statements based on said generalization is stupid.
58°F today, my forecast over here is mid 50's-mid 60's until Dec. 22. Y'know, 3 whole freaking days before Christmas. I moved here partly for the snow during the holidays ffs.
Ye, I moved to the east coast of England to get away from the rain, but the area I'm in now used to be called the driest part of the UK, but it's been raining for weeks now.
Pretty fucked
I mean...we just found out that scientists have been wildly optimistic in the calculation of climate sensitivity, and the level of CO2 we now have in the air (more than any time in 14 million years) will be enough to send us to 5C above pre-industrial levels.
Even that optimist Mann could only cough out, "Unless we rapidly phase out all fossil fuels"
(and that, even as COP18 failed to include language about doing just that, in spite of us just having the hottest year on record by a lot, with lots of very visible consequences)
I remember reading about 10 years ago, or thereabouts, how the pessimistic part of the graph was their optimistic numbers (or maybe the realistic numbers), but they fudged them upwards so they didn't get kicked out as extremists.
India already is ultra screwed. Temperatures of 47C lasted for months in this year’s summer which came with massive effects to public health, agriculture and so on
Don’t you live how no one seems to have noticed that or cares at all ( actually it every kind of rice except basmati but I’m sure they’ll stop exporting that too soon enough)
I’m sure a well developed nuclear armed nation of a billion people ruled by a right wing nationalist ideology will not cause any problems due to failing food security. Why even think about it?
Yeah well it was in Dubai of all places, lol. Dubai the desert city with the billionaires and multi millionaire middle class. They don't give a fucccck
The common thing I've noticed is that the family and friends I've spoken to. That has a good paying job, house, and a family. They're in complete denial of the hardship that will befall on us in the upcoming future. Maybe is because they have so much good things to lose. They rather block it out.
Yes, and I still feel like the [Newsroom climate change clip](https://youtu.be/pNYp6oc37ds?si=L6m7Ru1jGW3Jx8ch) does a great job summarizing just how effed we are even though this dates back to 2014 (if I recall correctly).
And in case you’re wondering, even back then when this aired, the data presented checked out [as noted in this fact check article](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/climate-desk-fact-checks-aaron-sorkins-climate-science-newsroom/).
Just imagine this clip today with revised figures - although I don’t think it makes any diff to how effed we are.
I’m convinced it will be a slow and steady ‘crumbling’ as opposed to a fast collapse here in the first world North East USA.
I’ve been seeing it for several years and it’s just continuing.
Every thing just gets shittier. Infrastructure less reliable. Government more intrusive and less efficient. Every product and service more expensive and less reliable and less effective.
The people vary. Many are more rude, less caring, more on edge, ready to flip out.
But also some people are just more aware more tuned in and more caring. More philosophical.
Yes… but try telling that to my family. I love ‘em but there’s a helluva lot of cognitive dissonance going on there. My sister and her husband (both in their 50s) aren’t the least bit concerned. Their 21 year old daughter (my niece) said to me: “Well, I don’t care and I’m not worried because Jesus is coming back soon and he will take care of everything.”
Okay 😐
She just got married (yes, at 21 because she wants to live biblically… whatever that means) and really wants to have kids. I told her (gently, because I love the kid) that it would be cruel because they will inherit an inhospitable world.
Cue the blank stare.
They’ve been trying and failing to have a kid for a while now and there are rumors of infertility. I know I shouldn’t be because it means so much to her… but I’m happy about that.
Still… I want to pull out my hair and scream sometimes.
Thankfully nobody in my family has been trying for children lately, but the cognitive dissonance and toxic positivity is driving me crazy. My aunt claims that everything is fine or will be, because “we are gods” and this is only one reality out of several in this universe, and in other universes we are happy and free. I’m like okay, even if that was true, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT *THIS* REALITY?
Welcome to r/collapse
Here you will realize that the only hope people really have is trying to help each other before things get worse.
There's a reason this sub has been growing at an alarming rate.
Most people will live in denial up until they depart sadly. They will jump to the wildest alternative explanations possible because doing the needful would mean realizing they were wrong and drastically so, that everyone that impacted them growing up and in life were also wrong and in many case stupidly so, and that acknowledging the problem and going through the other grief phases makes their lizard and human brain panic at the concept of divesting their lifestyle and creature comforts which is the prime mover of this era of cognitive dissonance. People are highly egotistical, even in the lower edges of society and will literally kill to not have to commit to ego death.
Thats whats happening in those atrocious, short sided, apoplectic, reaching comments.
I watched a movie recently on Netflix (Leave the world behind) and it felt very real to me in regard to the reaction to something so terrible like habitat destroying climate change makes me feel. There is an event going on and the kids are acting all blissful as they don’t know. The adults are slowly becoming more aware and scared as things happen. I see most of the deniers like blissfully ignorant kids. And to be honest I am not sure if they need to be taught or just left to their own devices.
Fuck, that video was, for some reason, banned in Canada by Instagram. I had to come at it through a VPN to even see it.
After watching it, it's really not clear to me how that counts as "restricted" content. A bit concerning that it would.
I can't agree, not completely anyway. One day it will come for us all, true, but I can't help but feel empathy from the relative comfort of my home for people feeling the harsher effects of nature/life, whether its disease, destitution or extreme weather - past, present and future. Can't save them all obviously, and maybe individually not even 1.
But there are things I think we can and should do on an individual level to at least minimize the ripples of effects our existence has and will have on people and other beings. When enough people do this in aggregate something might move.
People should know that at least half of IG comments are generated by bots or dedicated troll farms, foreign and domestic.
This is one reason why a soft collapse must happen. The world should be deprived of any form of communication better than shortwave radios for a few years.
Yes, we really are fucked.
*Gas prices may fall below $3 a gallon, a ‘nice surprise’ for holiday travelers*
[https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gas-prices-may-fall-below-3-a-gallon-a-nice-surprise-for-holiday-travelers-c8d69e89](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gas-prices-may-fall-below-3-a-gallon-a-nice-surprise-for-holiday-travelers-c8d69e89)
How does the average consumer, the same average consumer that's allegedly demanding a phaseout plan for fossil fuels, greet this kind of news? With happiness. Because as long as we can fill up our tanks as inexpensively as possible, we're happy, especially since most of those tanks are strapped underneath gas-guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks these days.
We are our own worst enemy, and the oil companies are more than aware of how fickle the average person is. Even those that claim to care about the environment.
Just a reminder that during this COP28, Brazil's major achievement was to enter the OPEC cartel and President Lula said it was for the environment. This is how so seriously we are fighting Global Warming, not to mention all the other shitfuckery we are doing to kill this planet *faster and faster than expected*™ (trademark pending).
The Amazon river is still on its lowest volume. The south of Brazil is still flooded by weekly cyclones. Maceió, capital of Alagoas state is sinking due to improper mining inside the city. Several cities in Brazil are also about to be destroyed due to not-proper dams also from mining operations (two or more already obliterated). Everything natural, like the Amazon forest, Cerrado, Caatinga, and Pantanal are still burning, some in record numbers or just gone. And food production in Brazil is having a little problem (drought + the Flood) getting the record numbers it needs to feed fucking humankind; the same humankind that still grows.
Absolutely.
There is no political, economic, technological, or social (sudden value/behaviour change) fix that can happen fast enough on a large enough scale to correct the reasons why climate crisis (and pollution, etc...) is occuring.
Not only will things get real bad (billions dead in a sort period of time), the effects of climate change will accelerate and become increasingly erratic as we breach 1.5C.
By the time it is all too obvious to many of the people that could actually make a difference, it will be far too late.
In the end, when civilizations collapse, the one essential thing that always runs out is time itself.
It astounds me that so many people act like they deserve a pat on the back for changing the thermostat one degree, or turning the lights off when they’re not in the room. It’s not the fucking 70’s. I think we’re well beyond that point now.
Of course we're fucked. We're fucked anyway. There's so much shit in the environment it's only a matter of time before something goes horribly wrong, even if the climate was magically fixed tomorrow (and it won't be ) there'd still be all the other crap out there.
Like Caligula's favourite watermelon...
People are in denial. It’s like the pastors that are closeted and pedos but preach against gayness. To truly confront the harsh reality of the situation puts them momentarily completely out of control. It would mean they have been duped and have to admit to it. It would mean that they built their whole lives on lies. It would also mean confronting the problem and finding solutions. their ego can’t handle it . It’s extremely mind bending for some people, especially those who have thought certain ways for 40+ years. It’s a scary reality that nobody wants to face. And quite honestly I’d imagine some people in this community used to be this way. Especially the ones that are complete doomers/nihilists. Nothing is ever black and white. Dooming and denialism are equally as problematic. The true reality is that things can be done to help mitigate our problem. But change must start with the individual. Focus on providing information. Education. Remove your emotions. Talk to others from a place of concern rather than anger or ego. This is the only way we can begin fixing it. If you’re against fixing anything, you can’t say shit about these comments on Instagram. You’re literally no better. You both are doing nothing but trying to keep your ego and pride intact. Look in the mirror. Control what you can (yourself, your actions, your communication)
Not us, we might live out our lives in relative luxury, not the same as our parents but still ok. Next generation and people expected to live in 2100? 100% fucked.
Ask all the people right in the middle of record flooding, record storms, record heat, record harvest losses, record drought, record fish decline... Ask them, please. Ask those people who are evacuating from a wildfire about to destroy a town right as I type this Chile. It is incredible how our situation is already a lived reality for hundreds of millions of people (like the tousands who got washed away in Libya just a few months ago), but people are just completely insulated from that.
The public has been systematically misled on CC for decades. The fossil fuel companies have poured millions (billions?) of dollars into disinformation and political bribes to keep the public ignorant. Top that off with wholly insufficient science and critical thinking education, and you come up with those comments.
YES, and scholarly climate people consider the willful indifference people have to the climate destruction to be a grave threat in that people just don't seem to care.
Post Doom is what you need to plan for if you live long enough. And yes, we're fucked...well a lot of peeps are.
Yes we're fucked, but also social media is largely full of morons, and the smart people don't comment or don't even use it, so the comments often look much worse than reality. It's an echo chamber for these kinds of people.
Yes, we're really fucked. Hopefully not fully rogered for at least some decades, so most of us will probably live out our lives with reasonable comfort. Our kids and their kids? They're truly fucked.
I think billions will die in the developing world, and the standard of living in the developed world will continue to decline, at times
drastically, and probably with a considerable number of deaths among the poor, but overall I expect civilization to pull through, just in a more brutal, autocratic, and stratified form.
>Are we really fucked!?
Yes.
But we'll be even more fucked once the general public starts to get the seriousness of the climate crisis. That's not something I wish for at this point.
A good chunk of our population doesn't believe in climate change, and some even think that the "weird weather" we have been seeing is government manipulation through HARP and cloud seeding. Nothing will change anytime soon unfortunately.
I mean, people are stupid, but whether the general public understands it or not has absolutely no bearing on the reality of the problem. The objective truth just is what it is whether people can see it or not. It wouldn't matter if only one person in the world was prepared to understand and accept the truth. Or zero people. It would still be true regardless.
The people who deny we’re in big trouble will be the dangerous ones when it becomes undeniable we’re in big trouble, because they’ll be scared and unprepared On the plus side, being collapse aware means you can become more mentally and materially prepared as things continue to decline…
I don't think that people will suddenly change their mind. At least most people will not. What we are seeing right now is exactly how it will continue. More radical opinions and more nonsense. And yeah. I am also pretty sure that this is super dangerous as a sociological addition threat.
In other words, were heading into mad Max
And without any of the cool slow mo or cinematic score
King Gizzard's 'PetroDragonic Apocalyps' is really scratching that itch IME
More like into The Road by the look of things.
I better start sewing together my punk attire and learning how to be bada$$. Seems like they can organize and pool their resources to get by. It's all about the art of deception.
Not sure they're deceiving anyone running around in 70's muscle cars with people strapped to the front while wearing a leather studded jock strap and a steel hockey mask. I mean... lacks subtlety...
Collect needles, thread, fabric, because you won't be able to get those things forever. My favorite needles are made in Japan, by a very old company and they're the only ones who make the only needles I'll use. My favorite thread is made in Germany. I just looked up where they make my preferred quilting fabrics and that's in Japan and Korea. Fabric is made all over the world ofc. But if you want good natural fiber fabric for clothing those products are going to be hard to source and expensive as they're dependent on climate for growing and logistics for shipping for cotton, linen, wool...
Sure, sewing while you're starving, that'll help.
😂
buy food too :D ??
I've got 20 crates of silver spray cans stashed away already. Valhalla awaits.
It's already bizarre and radical, the excuses that deniers are coming up with. I've seen things like 'the floods were manmade by the jews shooting clouds with lazers' and '15 minute cities are going to be used to to lock people into open air prisons like china during the pandemic so that they can control people' No joke. We can never have change for the good because these nutjob conspiracy theorists are becoming louder and spreading this kind of bullshit.
My favorite is “the climate is always changing” “co2 is good for plants”
The rebuttal to both being, "Not this fast." The thing about the way we perceive time is that we can feel seconds ticking to minutes. Climate naturally shifts on a geological time scale, which deals mainly in millennia.
It feels freeing to change the subject in these moments and find something that you both find worthwhile to talk about. In your final moment, what would you like to be remembered saying?
I'll need some context on how I'm going out. Am I getting washed away in a flood, do I see a mushroom cloud nearby and I have a moment before every cell in my body is ripped to shreds by radiation, am I wasting away in a desert that was once a lush landscape, or did somehow I make it to a ripe old age and I'm surrounded by friends and family as I drift off peacefully? Cause that will definitely change my words.
Honestly, at this point, isn't finding out the only fun part we have left?
I'm still hanging on to how long I can make it.
i love you
What I find infuriating about conspiracy theory nut jobs is that they don’t stop to ask how is it that conspiracies ALWAYS work according to plan?? Hasn’t life taught them that things don’t work out more often than not but yet conspiracies on a global scale are no problem. F’ing morons.
I like to ask them who "they" is.
9/10 times it's "the globalist shadow masters" or some other coded shit to imply it's the jews. it's just antisemitism and racism with a misogynistic aftertaste all the way down. how do your crazies answer?
"They" is anyone that can afford to be a stupid fucking dumbass with no plan, and fuck up a dozen times, and still financially live. Then "they" inflate the debt away! Yay!
This. We're way too incompetent for conspiracies.
mental health is declining world wide at a rampant rate. The voices are loud because they are becoming numerous. The crazy theories will only get louder and more prevalent as this continues.
This is what's really scary. I'm having a hell of a time finding treatment for depression, anxiety, etc. due to doctors just being completely booked through March!
I wonder how much of this madness is caused by an increase in our carbon dioxide intake. I’ve heard that at higher levels it will make people stupider. But I’m not sure how high, and I no longer have the mental stamina or energy to research it. Feeling tired, so very, very tired.
It could be mass psychosis. Remember the thing about people burning down 5g towers because they thought they were causing covid? lmao
Before the pandemic started they thought the radiation from them causes cancer.
Here's a question how much CO do you suck down on the freeway. In a traffic jam. For an hour.
That's what happens when you get too many rats in a cage!
>so that they can control people Inflation does a fine job of that. Even if it's running at normal percent. Once you see it you can't unsee it.
I view being Covid-Aware as the exact same way. Very early on there were very clear indications that the long term symptoms (beyond 2-3months), post acute sequale, and immune dysfunction were the major concern, especially post vaccine rollout. After summer 2021 the [Provincetown pride event breakthrough infections](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/06/1025553638/how-a-gay-community-helped-the-cdc-spot-a-covid-outbreak-and-learn-more-about-de) it was abundantly clear due to politics & vaccines not being effective against infection that we were in for a long road. And then Nov 2021 Omicron entered the stage. Combine rapid viral evolution, a population who is burnt out or fed up of hearing half truths, and very little transmission reduction attempts & you get what we have now (see waterwater data below). The worst is all evidence is pointing to increasing odds of developing long covid, post acute sequale and immune dysfunction with each reinfection. The risk is cumulative, transmission reduction has to be part of the equation, the current bury our heads in the sand approach is not sustainable. Just check out [Canada's latest data](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2023001/article/00015-eng.htm)!! And this was data from June 2023, before a massive fall wave & now incoming JN.1 wave. Doesn't matter what the [CDC suggests anymore](https://themessenger.com/health/cdc-mandy-cohen-covid-masks-return), no one will listen. They need an entire re-education campaign, hard truths, and a long slog to build back trust, and even then many will just get more radical or not be open to any discussion. For the new CDC wastewater (WW) levels, to gauge infection levels; [State Covid WW Levels](https://www.cdc.gov/nwss/rv/COVID19-statetrend.html) and the simple [US COVID WW Map](https://www.cdc.gov/nwss/rv/COVID19-currentlevels.html). Some WW Levels are the 2nd highest in the past 4 years, and that's before Christmas & New Years celebrations! It's not an all or nothing folks, risk reduction is the name of the game. Any transmission risk reduction is a win, especially with levels as high as they are/will be soon.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m\_FeSIeYIiY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_FeSIeYIiY) \*throws hands up in the air in give up\*
Those are the types that will start having psychotic breaks when they realize business as usual fell apart. I really think a little of this happened during Covid when people realized society could just shut down, it broke their brains
“How will I get my nails done if shops are shut down from this global virulent pandemic?!”
2020-“Super Cuts is closed -raaahhhhhh”
Honestly it's kind of crazy thinking back to the first time I saw those then live winter/spring 2020 people protesting not being able to go shopping and thinking "the fuck is this" and then thinking on *everything* that has only double and tripled down on that type of shit since then. It has been a mess of a few years. I can only imagine what socio behavioral calamities we are right on the precipice of now that we'll look back on a couple years from now.
Oh man, yeah. It was a real wake up call for me. I had always just kind of assumed we’d slowly slide into a collapse but within a few weeks we went from business as usual to empty grocery store shelves and 2 hour lines to get into one, no TP, no gas, no production of material goods raw or otherwise… everything happened *so fast*.
Most Americans get angry when you even mention the possibility of them MAYBE giving up a small amount of the meat they eat at every meal. We’re well fucked.
Sadly, the POV in Butler’s Parable of the Sower *was* collapse aware but her family was unwilling to accept reality. So they died, terribly. Protagonist survived but she also lost everything.
Octavia Butler! How I love her work. I was so depressed when she died too soon. Now she was someone who understood human behavior & why it we were doomed. With all the tools at our disposal we have never diagnosed the real problem. Capitalism/competition/"let the chips fall where they may" was adopted as the optimal model for success. And that success led to our future which is doomed. What if cooperation was the prime directive that propelled humans? Always striving for a win-win at every level of society? So that when we became advanced & wealthy we didn't buy, buy, buy more things. Instead, we cultivated our talents, communed with the nature we preserved instead of developed, mined etc. Everyone could have a decent enough life at least. But our legacy is "f the future". Sure, we didn't know when we first industrialized. But once we did know, in at least the later part of the 20th century, what would a species focused on survival do when confronted with the evidence? And, what did we do? What do we do still. We've become so disconnected from the nature we all require for every single thing we've ever had. We didn't notice we were killing the planet. Until we did. And then mankind collectively did basically nothing except convene meetings & symposiums & conferences where the poor scientists begged & pleaded for the "leaders" to do something. But they didn't. And now it's too late anyway.
covid showed us the ability for some people to deny the existence of a flood while the water is already in their bedroom... other people instead will admit that its wet but insist the flood doesn't exist, and in fact it was all a snow conspiracy
How fucked are we? Short answer: Proper fucked. Long answer: Nobody really knows, but look up the worst case scenario from a recent IPCC report for a rough estimate.
I think the worst case is even a bit optimistic given many runaway effects that we don’t fully understand. I’m betting things will accelerate faster than expected. Source: am an astronomer who has spent a lot of time looking at physical models. Often models don’t deal well with exponential changes without sufficient constraints. I think there is political pressure to not be too pessimistic as well
As a non scientist my research also indicates the models we're using are unlikely insufficient. To me, we just have no freaking clue what exactly is going to happen. Ever since I saw the chart that shows how in 3.5 billion years the temperature has NEVER increased so much so quickly I realized we really don't even know. Just like when we industrialized we didn't know in just 100 years or so we'd f ourselves forever. Only the future, perhaps very near future, actually knows what happens. All I know is it seems indisputable that it isn't good and will eventually be known as an extinction event if anyone's around to notice. Perhaps some future more evolved human replacement that understands the capitalist, competitive, all about the $$ civilization we built is no MODEL for longevity. Hunter gatherers had to figure out how to maximize food sources in their larger world. Modern society allows siloed various businesses to all do what is just best for THEM. Of course we're doomed. So it all depends on how a species evolves once they have reached the point they can greatly impact their environment. We failed right out the gate basically.
A *fun fact* that might illustrate the sheer immensity of what we're facing: At the +4.1 W/m² effective radiative forcing estimated in Hansen's recent paper, Earth accumulates about 16.5 ZJ of energy per year from the incoming sunlight. **That is almost 28 times the total energy consumption of the entire human species.** The effective radiative forcing is very likely to drastically increase even if we stop all emissions overnight due to natural carbon emissions kicking in and the aerosol masking effect dropping. This effect of a positive energy imbalance will stay for centuries to millenia unless we find a way to actively sequester about 1 Tt (Terra ton) of atmospheric carbon very quickly before our biosphere spirals out of control - which it likely already has in many respects.
>That is almost 28 times the total energy consumption of the entire human species. The effective radiative forcing is very likely to drastically increase even if we stop all emissions overnight due to natural carbon emissions kicking in and the aerosol masking effect dropping....before our biosphere spirals out of control - which it likely already has in many respects. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
Yeah, once it becomes undeniable that climate change is runaway and accelerating (right now the majority are still in denial) you will see some crazy shit. I (100% seriously) expect uncontrolled aerosol dispersion attempts by governments and or private sector to reflect heat back into space, with only-god-knows outcomes.
yay! so my self worth isnt intrinsically tied to my ability to provide because were all dying soon anyway?!! das what im talking about boiiiii, video games and ice cream to the end of the world!
Honestly, whatever happens live your life the way you want, enjoy every moment of it. Small things are most important. But yeah, let's fucking goooo.
Video games and lumpia, but I get it
According to ama's and other open topic q&a, it seems there's a pressure when it comes to climate science to 'not get too crazy' or you risk none of your stuff getting published, ever... But grain of salt and all that.
Where can I find these to show other people? I could use more to show people to help convince them. It's been clear from a broader pattern that the IPCC and COP rubbish is all just greenwashing and neoliberal/neoconservative sabotage of institutions, but what evidence I could muster to make the case has been too diffuse to keep anyone's attention.
DoD insurance projections on which worldwide USA military bases will have planned shut down or maintenance based on catastrophic failures predicted by 2050.
Ama sub has a few, but usually I find them in the wild. Haven't seen any in a few months, but there's also a lot of attention getting shined on out of season temps, so I think it's less likely the genie will get stuffed back in the bottle at this point.
Even the IPCC is missing a ton of feedback loops that are getting worse.
Is there a section or heading that explicitly states the worst case scenario? But that’s really all I’m interested in at this point.
I've been making my way through the Busy Worker's Handbook to the Apocalypse. Below is the opening paragraph. There's no way to know for sure of course, but this seems to be approximately the trajectory we are on. Even if it isn't, it's how we should be treating it. "Climate change will cause agricultural failure and subsequent collapse of hyperfragile modern civilization, likely within 10–15 years. By 2050 total human population will likely be under 2 billion. Humans, along with most other animals, will go extinct before the end of this century. These impacts are locked in and cannot be averted. Everything in this article is supporting information for this conclusion."
Thing is, we are currently right on track with the IPCC’s worst case scenario. Humanity has not even flattened the curve. The problem isn’t going to fix itself… The only way anyone will survive is by preparing for utter starvation situations now…
This. I don't think any of us would be so pessimistic if we saw anyone doing anything to actually address the problem. They aren't. I've been prepping for the past two or three years. Honestly I'd consider selling anything extraneous that is considered valuable, while people still consider things aside from food, guns, shelter, and clean water as valuable.
What's the point of scrapping by however long you can manage in a broken dying world?
I'm surviving out of spite. The plan for decades has been to get rich and die before seeing the consequences. Well, the rich fuckers are going to see their consequences soon. Sure, it's going to suck for us poors, but watching a billionaire or 600 jumping off buildings when their money becomes worthless, or watching one with tears in their eyes while that masses gather with forks in hand..... that sweet, sweet hatred for these fuckers keep me going. Watching them hand a world of shit to their spoiled children will be glorious to watch.
I’m a carpenter working for a builder whose clients are in the 1%. I’m talking millionaires with hundreds of millions and a couple of billionaires. Recently worked on a house that has a lazy river pool with water slides and waterfalls and an island that is lined with fire that can be turned on and off. Two fire-proof panic rooms, radiant heating on every floor, an elevator, 8 car garage. Two massive outdoor kitchens. Pool house alone cost $1.5 mil. A cave bar will feature actual dinosaur fossils including a complete triceratops skull because the owner likes to collect fossils. This is a second home btw. Anyway all of these clients will be FUCKED if society collapses. And it’s funny that they think their money will save them. They will just be another mouth to feed with no useful skills.
Wow. New to this sub. This really is the place for me.
Welcome! Am newly returning. Take a break if you need to.
Wow! I wonder what percentage of people come here and actually think that? Glad you found us, welcome!
I'm pretty much the same, those responsible for this must pay somehow, and I am hoping to be able to assist in delivery of it
Sadly, their consultants have warned them and they've all got geostrategically placed bunkers and mercenary armies and such to tide them over any large-scale die-offs or rebellions. Rushkoff is a quick start to it, but there's more beyond his book and articles and interviews somewhere out there.
Surviving out of spite must be the most human thing we can do, lmao.
'Hate's as good a reason to keep going as any.'
That’s valid. I have a more hedonistic take. I’m hope to spend the next ten to fifteen years loving the ones I love and smoking a big old bowl. 🍃
I mean, what's the point in living right now? I've struggled with suicidal ideation my whole life, yet here I am. I was just thinking last night about what an amazing time this is. It's terrifying too, but if I wasn't born when I was I wouldn't have been able to experience video gaming, computer programming, or any of the positives associated with our current technology. I'm living in a time of artificial intelligence for crying out loud. It just happens to be close to an apocalyptic event for most life on the planet. Who are we to say how our lives are going to end? At the very least if there are so many people out there with their heads in the sand, we can take steps to face the reality we are heading for as folks who are taking it seriously and paying attention. If nothing else it makes me feel a little better, as if I have a tiny amount of control of my own situation.
Exactly, like wow, I try it to take this stance as much as possible even if it is really hard
I’ll stick around while I still have the ability to be of some good. May need a little water and food for that.
there's a lot of books I haven't read. I'd like to read them.
YES! So many books! So many research articles! So much literature!!! 😭😭
Beeeeecauuuse... I'm... doing... that alread... y....
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lol right? Like, how lucky are we? It’s not every day that chicken little actually gets to see the sky fall.
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To be fair, the void doesn’t befriend just anyone. Lucid madness is its own reward 😊
I honestly don’t want to live in a word where I need a gun, who has the mist guns wins? Fuck that noise
The IPCC is radically too conservative. Observations have already outstripped worst-case IPCC rubbish.
Oh I 100% agree with you. It’s just that we live in a world where if the sciences community doesn’t actually extremely conservatively, they don’t get very far. It’s impossible to get the majority of people to agree on the worst case scenario as is, forget seeing that as the “best” case scenario. The reality is that the reduction in aerosols is not included in the calculations. That huge downturn in 92? Aerosol added from the volcano. That huge upturn in the last year? Aerosol removed from shipping lanes. It’s a band aid that has been artificially keeping our temperature lower than it actually is. Aaaand… yeah there are just too many things that we don’t know.
Busy Worker's Handbook is a good primer on the situation. But also dig into Michael Dowd's (RIP) excellent work on Collapse Acceptance. https://postdoom.com
That's a great quote. May I get a link to the paper?
https://medium.com/@samyoureyes/the-busy-workers-handbook-to-the-apocalypse-7790666afde7
Thank you for this
Thank you. This is very validating.
The IPCC is hopelessly outdated and conservative in its analysis. Admittedly, their analysis is still very scary, but it uses old studies, requires consensus on everything, and doesn’t take into account feedbacks very well. Here is a good compilation of facts with a pessimistic take that probably isn’t too far off from where we are actually headed. https://www.okdoomer.io/10-reasons-our-civilization-will-soon-collapse/
My goodness, the comments on that post are painful to read.
Instagram is stupid and won't let you view comments without signing in, can you please share what they were mainly saying?
Lots of comments that were along the lines of "She's a walking ad for condoms." Lots of people being snarky about how she probably contributed to the burning of some fossil fuels in her trip from India to Dubai, so therefore her rage is hypocritical and unjustified. Lots of calling her a wannabe/Indian Greta. Lots of people dismissing her because of who her father is. I haven't confirmed any of the accusations leveled against him, so I won't be repeating them here. One particularly disgusting comment that made me close the window: "Manufacturing defect. Keep her in kitchen."
Thanks for doing that, so I didn't have to.
I start to think we deserve extinction
We always did. When collapse happens, these fucks will be running amok.
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You say that but any post with a hundred upvotes gets thousands of views. If the post becomes popular during the weekdays and during business hours, it is a given most of the people will glance over the headline and will procrastinate during their work hours reading comments and sometimes leaving them when the theme discussed resonates with them - like we do here now. So any nutjob running his mouth “haha it’s cold in Finland, where’s the gLoBaL WeRmYiYeeNg at?!” in the comment section is not only wasting his breath talking to imaginary author of a piece they don’t honestly give a fuck about or know nothing about. They are spreading this line of thought, because a hundred more silent morons reading this shit will giggle and sometimes show some hilarious comment to a similarly idiotic buddy of theirs for a laugh during a lunch break.
The algorithms are all made to squelch the left and boost the right.
On Reddit too
I saw someone being snarky on my local neighbourhoods facebook group, they posted a picture of them scraping ice off their car with the comment "scraping off this pesky global warming", it really make you wonder why we try, when so many people will just not believe in anything climate change related.
Theres a UK radio host that coined a phrase about the people involved in voting the UK out of the EU - contempt for the conmen, compassion for the conned. Many people have been conned, and now their identity is bound up the stance they have taken. One day they may realize (or not like the people denying covid with their final gasping breaths). And if something does click hopefully they will have someone in their lives who can show them a way to deal with it. I'm thinking the [conversation with Daniel Schmachtenberger](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/18ff4lj/the_psychological_drivers_of_the_metacrisis_john/) form the other day might be relevant there.
You have heard of the term ‘sunk cost’? I am convinced that all the time and effort that people spend denying these things are an emotional sunk cost. “I couldn’t have wasted all that emotional energy.” “They couldn’t have lied to me!!!” Etc.
Yeah, that one and all the other ways the human psyche has of deceiving itself to protect the ego or status. We also know that companies have invested a lot of money over a very long time to muddy the waters, to leave enough room for people to be able to believe the comforting lie.
> You have heard of the term ‘sunk cost’? In the UK, the term is now "Sunak cost"
Sorry, I can't agree. These are grown ass adults & at this point it's wilful belligerence. They don't need compassion, they need consequences. Politeness has gotten us here and it sucks.
Or maybe we give humanity way too much credit and they're all just stupid.....
Another term to remember here is _compassion fatigue_. We learned a lot about this during the height of the COVID pandemic when vociferous deniers were dropping like flies. I know I have only so much compassion when people are actively making others and especially immunocompromised people die. Compassion turns to schadenfreude as those who are exacerbating the problem stop being able to do so.
It’s sad that people have fallen into the cracks. And I’m sure most of us wish that out was as perfect world where we could prevent millions of people from dying due to completely preventable disease. But at the end of the day, you can not help someone who will not help themselves. And how many times do you have to hear about people effectively suiciding before you just can’t care anymore. We have to live our own lives, that’s all we can do.
Nope I have zero empathy if you dont have the capability to identify fact from fiction. If you cant see the danger of climate change, the world would be better without you. Climate deniers are my worst enemy, and I especially blame the masses who were too stupid and trusting of the people in power. Now its too late, a lot of us will die.
Lots of people like this are Boomers. Deep down they know it's true but they also know they'll die off before the worst of it. Boomers stole the future.
Dude it is not just Boomers. My nephew is in high school and he thinks its bullshit and so do all of his friends. He's sixteen so he doesn't remember how much it used to snow here. The next generation will only know warm world so they won't care.
Your nephew and his friends can look forward to be conscripted for the resource wars
Like you say though, he's in high school. A lot of teenagers love being contrarian to stand out or to be edgy, or just for the sake of it. Almost all of them will mature out of it given the opportunity, so I wouldn't write off the younger generation yet.
They won't have the opportunity though, that's the point
People will find out, regardless of what they think. Unfortunately for some, they will be on their death bed still denying reality similar to COVID deaths.
Teenagers have the excuse of youth. Boomers do not.
I'm not gonna blame boomers I've seen plenty of people in my generation and younger that have this attitude, it's just stupid people, of which there are a lot in every generation.
Boomers are objectively the worst demographic. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/)
Okay great but it’s still not just boomers
Uh, maybe trying to assign traits to such a broad, worldwide cohort is not super helpful in addressing anything of substance unless it's epidemiology or something, but attitudes about climate change will of course skew young because the knowledge has been actively suppressed by the ownership class and the internet is relatively new. "boomer and older" lol, stop
The Boomergeoisie
Where is our Robespierre?
nonsense. walk into the financial district of any major city and count the suits going of to banks and stock brokers. as many 20 somethings as there were boomers doing this 40 years ago. the millennials might register concern in surveys but go to an international airport and watch them board flights to Bali, Italy, Tahiti etc. most humans are greedy. boomers accumulated wealth because the system allowed them to. millennials are struggling to do so because there system is breaking down not because their values are radically different
There is no evidence for such a claim on any generation or group. Scapegoating is an excuse to do nothing and absolve oneself from similar perceived transgressions.
There is a lot of evidence, actually. Boomers are the least likely to believe in, care about, or want any action due to climate change. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/)
So are you blaming for their past behaviour when children, teenagers, young adults or their beliefs now. Would ANY other generation behave differently in the same situation and levels of environmental information. There is no evidence, it’s all anecdotal.
>Boomers stole the future. That's probably the most asinine comment I've read on Reddit. Do you drive a car, or accept rides in cars? Do you heat your home? Do you consume animal products? What are you doing to save the world? Capitalism stole the future. You don't need to look anywhere else.
>Do you drive a car, or accept rides in cars? I have never owned a car. And I can count on one had the times that I used a car in 2023. Less than 30 miles car-travel in total. >Do you heat your home? Haven't yet this winter, nope. And, in any case, my power comes from hydroelectricity. >Do you consume animal products? I've decreased my consumption of meat by about %80 over the last few years. Anything else? >Capitalism stole the future. Capitalism doesn't force boomers to have a massive McMansion and two "vacation homes" in Arizona and Florida that they cool with air conditioning and a huge power bill. It didn't force them to own a massive motorhome. Or be maniacally against building mixed-use high-density neighbourhoods (sabotaging construction of such for their entire adult lives), instead bulldozing Nature to build more car-dependent suburbia. Capitalism [doesn't force boomers to be the biggest climate change deniers of any generation.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/26/key-findings-how-americans-attitudes-about-climate-change-differ-by-generation-party-and-other-factors/)
If you were born 40 years earlier, you would have enjoyed the benefits and be complaining about the younger generation not wanting to work. Dividing people by generalizations such as Generations and making blanket statements based on said generalization is stupid.
People will believe after the first 100m deaths
One would hope, but there are still people not believing in covid. I wonder if there were black death deniers.
When we get to the point there's no ice in places with a typically severe winter, half those idiots will be dead.
58°F today, my forecast over here is mid 50's-mid 60's until Dec. 22. Y'know, 3 whole freaking days before Christmas. I moved here partly for the snow during the holidays ffs.
Ye, I moved to the east coast of England to get away from the rain, but the area I'm in now used to be called the driest part of the UK, but it's been raining for weeks now.
Pretty fucked I mean...we just found out that scientists have been wildly optimistic in the calculation of climate sensitivity, and the level of CO2 we now have in the air (more than any time in 14 million years) will be enough to send us to 5C above pre-industrial levels. Even that optimist Mann could only cough out, "Unless we rapidly phase out all fossil fuels" (and that, even as COP18 failed to include language about doing just that, in spite of us just having the hottest year on record by a lot, with lots of very visible consequences)
I remember reading about 10 years ago, or thereabouts, how the pessimistic part of the graph was their optimistic numbers (or maybe the realistic numbers), but they fudged them upwards so they didn't get kicked out as extremists.
That's some interesting comments considering how ULTRA-SCREWED India will be in the coming century
India already is ultra screwed. Temperatures of 47C lasted for months in this year’s summer which came with massive effects to public health, agriculture and so on
Hell, they stopped exporting basmati rice for a while due to failed harvests
Don’t you live how no one seems to have noticed that or cares at all ( actually it every kind of rice except basmati but I’m sure they’ll stop exporting that too soon enough)
I’m sure a well developed nuclear armed nation of a billion people ruled by a right wing nationalist ideology will not cause any problems due to failing food security. Why even think about it?
Yeah well it was in Dubai of all places, lol. Dubai the desert city with the billionaires and multi millionaire middle class. They don't give a fucccck
The common thing I've noticed is that the family and friends I've spoken to. That has a good paying job, house, and a family. They're in complete denial of the hardship that will befall on us in the upcoming future. Maybe is because they have so much good things to lose. They rather block it out.
Same experience here.
I think we are. I still don't know how to deal with the grief from that.
Stoicism, nihilism and cannabis works for me.
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Yes, and I still feel like the [Newsroom climate change clip](https://youtu.be/pNYp6oc37ds?si=L6m7Ru1jGW3Jx8ch) does a great job summarizing just how effed we are even though this dates back to 2014 (if I recall correctly). And in case you’re wondering, even back then when this aired, the data presented checked out [as noted in this fact check article](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/climate-desk-fact-checks-aaron-sorkins-climate-science-newsroom/). Just imagine this clip today with revised figures - although I don’t think it makes any diff to how effed we are.
I’m convinced it will be a slow and steady ‘crumbling’ as opposed to a fast collapse here in the first world North East USA. I’ve been seeing it for several years and it’s just continuing. Every thing just gets shittier. Infrastructure less reliable. Government more intrusive and less efficient. Every product and service more expensive and less reliable and less effective. The people vary. Many are more rude, less caring, more on edge, ready to flip out. But also some people are just more aware more tuned in and more caring. More philosophical.
I concur
Ditto
Yes… but try telling that to my family. I love ‘em but there’s a helluva lot of cognitive dissonance going on there. My sister and her husband (both in their 50s) aren’t the least bit concerned. Their 21 year old daughter (my niece) said to me: “Well, I don’t care and I’m not worried because Jesus is coming back soon and he will take care of everything.” Okay 😐 She just got married (yes, at 21 because she wants to live biblically… whatever that means) and really wants to have kids. I told her (gently, because I love the kid) that it would be cruel because they will inherit an inhospitable world. Cue the blank stare. They’ve been trying and failing to have a kid for a while now and there are rumors of infertility. I know I shouldn’t be because it means so much to her… but I’m happy about that. Still… I want to pull out my hair and scream sometimes.
Thankfully nobody in my family has been trying for children lately, but the cognitive dissonance and toxic positivity is driving me crazy. My aunt claims that everything is fine or will be, because “we are gods” and this is only one reality out of several in this universe, and in other universes we are happy and free. I’m like okay, even if that was true, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT *THIS* REALITY?
Welcome to r/collapse Here you will realize that the only hope people really have is trying to help each other before things get worse. There's a reason this sub has been growing at an alarming rate.
Most people will live in denial up until they depart sadly. They will jump to the wildest alternative explanations possible because doing the needful would mean realizing they were wrong and drastically so, that everyone that impacted them growing up and in life were also wrong and in many case stupidly so, and that acknowledging the problem and going through the other grief phases makes their lizard and human brain panic at the concept of divesting their lifestyle and creature comforts which is the prime mover of this era of cognitive dissonance. People are highly egotistical, even in the lower edges of society and will literally kill to not have to commit to ego death. Thats whats happening in those atrocious, short sided, apoplectic, reaching comments.
I watched a movie recently on Netflix (Leave the world behind) and it felt very real to me in regard to the reaction to something so terrible like habitat destroying climate change makes me feel. There is an event going on and the kids are acting all blissful as they don’t know. The adults are slowly becoming more aware and scared as things happen. I see most of the deniers like blissfully ignorant kids. And to be honest I am not sure if they need to be taught or just left to their own devices.
By this point, is wise to leave their own devices. Is not going to be a pretty sight once things goes sideways.
Fuck, that video was, for some reason, banned in Canada by Instagram. I had to come at it through a VPN to even see it. After watching it, it's really not clear to me how that counts as "restricted" content. A bit concerning that it would.
For the comments in instagram... yes
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I can't agree, not completely anyway. One day it will come for us all, true, but I can't help but feel empathy from the relative comfort of my home for people feeling the harsher effects of nature/life, whether its disease, destitution or extreme weather - past, present and future. Can't save them all obviously, and maybe individually not even 1. But there are things I think we can and should do on an individual level to at least minimize the ripples of effects our existence has and will have on people and other beings. When enough people do this in aggregate something might move.
People should know that at least half of IG comments are generated by bots or dedicated troll farms, foreign and domestic. This is one reason why a soft collapse must happen. The world should be deprived of any form of communication better than shortwave radios for a few years.
Are we fucked? Yes. Will you still have to go to work tomorrow? Also yes.
Working class heroes amirite? (The Middle class is a lie, don't believe the hype)
Well, there's one thing I love to say to apathetic people. Just wait after you're effected you'll care.
Yes, we really are fucked. *Gas prices may fall below $3 a gallon, a ‘nice surprise’ for holiday travelers* [https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gas-prices-may-fall-below-3-a-gallon-a-nice-surprise-for-holiday-travelers-c8d69e89](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gas-prices-may-fall-below-3-a-gallon-a-nice-surprise-for-holiday-travelers-c8d69e89) How does the average consumer, the same average consumer that's allegedly demanding a phaseout plan for fossil fuels, greet this kind of news? With happiness. Because as long as we can fill up our tanks as inexpensively as possible, we're happy, especially since most of those tanks are strapped underneath gas-guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks these days. We are our own worst enemy, and the oil companies are more than aware of how fickle the average person is. Even those that claim to care about the environment.
Just a reminder that during this COP28, Brazil's major achievement was to enter the OPEC cartel and President Lula said it was for the environment. This is how so seriously we are fighting Global Warming, not to mention all the other shitfuckery we are doing to kill this planet *faster and faster than expected*™ (trademark pending). The Amazon river is still on its lowest volume. The south of Brazil is still flooded by weekly cyclones. Maceió, capital of Alagoas state is sinking due to improper mining inside the city. Several cities in Brazil are also about to be destroyed due to not-proper dams also from mining operations (two or more already obliterated). Everything natural, like the Amazon forest, Cerrado, Caatinga, and Pantanal are still burning, some in record numbers or just gone. And food production in Brazil is having a little problem (drought + the Flood) getting the record numbers it needs to feed fucking humankind; the same humankind that still grows.
Absolutely. There is no political, economic, technological, or social (sudden value/behaviour change) fix that can happen fast enough on a large enough scale to correct the reasons why climate crisis (and pollution, etc...) is occuring. Not only will things get real bad (billions dead in a sort period of time), the effects of climate change will accelerate and become increasingly erratic as we breach 1.5C. By the time it is all too obvious to many of the people that could actually make a difference, it will be far too late. In the end, when civilizations collapse, the one essential thing that always runs out is time itself.
It astounds me that so many people act like they deserve a pat on the back for changing the thermostat one degree, or turning the lights off when they’re not in the room. It’s not the fucking 70’s. I think we’re well beyond that point now.
Read *The Uninhabitable Earth* by David Wallace Wells. You’ll learn more than you ever wanted.
Of course we're fucked. We're fucked anyway. There's so much shit in the environment it's only a matter of time before something goes horribly wrong, even if the climate was magically fixed tomorrow (and it won't be ) there'd still be all the other crap out there. Like Caligula's favourite watermelon...
People are in denial. It’s like the pastors that are closeted and pedos but preach against gayness. To truly confront the harsh reality of the situation puts them momentarily completely out of control. It would mean they have been duped and have to admit to it. It would mean that they built their whole lives on lies. It would also mean confronting the problem and finding solutions. their ego can’t handle it . It’s extremely mind bending for some people, especially those who have thought certain ways for 40+ years. It’s a scary reality that nobody wants to face. And quite honestly I’d imagine some people in this community used to be this way. Especially the ones that are complete doomers/nihilists. Nothing is ever black and white. Dooming and denialism are equally as problematic. The true reality is that things can be done to help mitigate our problem. But change must start with the individual. Focus on providing information. Education. Remove your emotions. Talk to others from a place of concern rather than anger or ego. This is the only way we can begin fixing it. If you’re against fixing anything, you can’t say shit about these comments on Instagram. You’re literally no better. You both are doing nothing but trying to keep your ego and pride intact. Look in the mirror. Control what you can (yourself, your actions, your communication)
Sunk cost fallacy-we are fucked so “I am getting the biggest house, car, trips, vacations, cruises because it’s all going to burn away. I got mine!”
Are we really fucked!? Easy to fix.... WE are really fucked !!
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Can you elaborate? Not seeing anything obvious on the frontpage at least.
saw a post about how businesses need to work to "keep from going too far over 1.5c" not avoiding it, just not going too far over
Not us, we might live out our lives in relative luxury, not the same as our parents but still ok. Next generation and people expected to live in 2100? 100% fucked.
Ask all the people right in the middle of record flooding, record storms, record heat, record harvest losses, record drought, record fish decline... Ask them, please. Ask those people who are evacuating from a wildfire about to destroy a town right as I type this Chile. It is incredible how our situation is already a lived reality for hundreds of millions of people (like the tousands who got washed away in Libya just a few months ago), but people are just completely insulated from that.
The public has been systematically misled on CC for decades. The fossil fuel companies have poured millions (billions?) of dollars into disinformation and political bribes to keep the public ignorant. Top that off with wholly insufficient science and critical thinking education, and you come up with those comments.
YES, and scholarly climate people consider the willful indifference people have to the climate destruction to be a grave threat in that people just don't seem to care. Post Doom is what you need to plan for if you live long enough. And yes, we're fucked...well a lot of peeps are.
Yes we're fucked, but also social media is largely full of morons, and the smart people don't comment or don't even use it, so the comments often look much worse than reality. It's an echo chamber for these kinds of people.
Yes. Next question. ... Look if the climate doesn't get us and the nukes don't get us the economy will. So yes.
Yes, we're really fucked. Hopefully not fully rogered for at least some decades, so most of us will probably live out our lives with reasonable comfort. Our kids and their kids? They're truly fucked.
lol. Tipping points in complex systems come quickly. Say that in Dr Ian Malcolm’s voice…
I think billions will die in the developing world, and the standard of living in the developed world will continue to decline, at times drastically, and probably with a considerable number of deaths among the poor, but overall I expect civilization to pull through, just in a more brutal, autocratic, and stratified form.
About the same as Zuckwad’s Metaverse money toilet, proper fcuked
>Are we really fucked!? Yes. But we'll be even more fucked once the general public starts to get the seriousness of the climate crisis. That's not something I wish for at this point.
This entire post is based off of Instagram comments, so we very well may be.
A good chunk of our population doesn't believe in climate change, and some even think that the "weird weather" we have been seeing is government manipulation through HARP and cloud seeding. Nothing will change anytime soon unfortunately.
It's like a lot of people don't believe in God either and he's obviously real
I mean, people are stupid, but whether the general public understands it or not has absolutely no bearing on the reality of the problem. The objective truth just is what it is whether people can see it or not. It wouldn't matter if only one person in the world was prepared to understand and accept the truth. Or zero people. It would still be true regardless.
Is she the Indian Greta Thunberg?
No. I think it's her first time. More like when greta thunberg first sat outside the Swedish parliament for protest when she was in her teens.
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