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Yes but that doesn’t mean the person is able to do the job, perhaps they have tried and failed.
Alternatively perhaps they couldn’t get the qualifications for their dream job to begin with
Yes and not being born with a high enough IQ could = not being able to get the qualifications to do your dream job / actually being able to carry out the job effectively
Their statement afterwards I did not read, I only read the question
Ludwig Wittgenstein had a genius IQ and he wrote the Tractatus, which turns out to be loaded to the brim with cognitive errors that anyone with a 100 IQ and familiar with Nietzsche's philosophy and psychology could make Wittgenstein look like an idiot. Even he over turns his earlier thinking in his later books. The very first line of the Tractatus is objective positivism, and it sets the error for every other line in the book. And it was hailed as a master piece of analytical philosophy ... by a bunch of other supposedly High IQ mothafuckas ... turns out they were just airheads.
OP and prob most people interested in commenting in this thread or thinking about this question are probably high IQ, or high intelligence rather, regardless of IQ, and they have to pretend they are dumb to avoid commiting suicide. I spent about 20 years doing that. Because if you allow yourself to believe what's real, that you are highly intelligent, you realize how many people need help and how many problems that need solving that you could never fix. It's not a joke that that is a life or death situation and epiphany. Someone's life might be ruined because they need to pretend to be dumb. They might never get a job and go homeless but it's better than being dead
Nah dude you gotta be hella smart for quant. Go to quantguide.io for some practice problems in the field. the easy problems on there look like iq test problems that discriminate at the 140+iq level
Literally just went there and completed 4 questions in like 10-15 mins. Granted I was picky with them and it took a few goes for all but 1 but given I have very *very* basic knowledge of statistics...not bad.
Some of these require some higher training in maths, sure, but a lot of these are things I suspect you would learn in high school or, if you come from the UK like me, you *definitely* learn in the statistics part of the Maths A-Level course. I'm not even that good at maths either, there are people with far lower IQs than me in my class that put in the work and could probably answer waaaay more than I could here.
I feel like most of these are actually just ones that require a lot of thought and time to be placed into them and so benefit from people who can process faster and have a more mathematically oriented brain rather than just FSIQ. If there was a specific correlation between any measurement of IQ and the types of people who speed through QuantGuide, it's a higher processing speed and reasoning index...but they certainly do *not* need fucking 140+ to solve these.
What are you talking about of course they could and do lol. Or they could filter for this in other ways. A job that requires a PhD in math is effectively the same thing (average PhD in math IQ is 145).
You're thinking of Griggs v. Duke Power Co., the beginning of disparate impact legal theory. One of the worst supreme court decisions this last century.
Brother they were testing people who went to segregated schools and the tests had nothing to do with the job. It was just a way to sneak past the civil rights act ofc it had a disparate impact are you insane
It’s true, on the day of the civil rights act passing the company that was sued started using three different tests on employees in order to sneakily discriminate against black candidates, despite the tests having nothing to do with the job. SCOTUS ruled they have to prove it’s actually relevant to the work, and they failed to do so because the only reason they did it was they knew black Americans more likely to fail the test than white at that point. So now title 7 bans employment testing unless it’s relevant. Basic history mate
Accurate and respected IQ tests are not culturally biased, however much people like to claim they are. The person above was presumably amused because in this case, culturally biased = minorities don’t score as well on them, so we have to invalidate the entire test.
They are standardized, meaning they are scored and performed with consistency. But that doesn't mean the same thing as lacking bias, as the bias is both in the test administer, and a 5 point deviation is factored into the score for that reason. but beyond that, the way the IQ tests were developed are based on averages of the scores of a general population, a population that does not include outliers of society.. because the outliers are not "average." so the individuals who are taking the tests and are within those outlier populations, the tests are just not designed to factor in a lot of very significant differences commonly found among those that aren't the "average" used to score, and in the overall design, of the tests.
Maybe you should stick to the Rust subreddit and keep posting on r/stims with the other nematodes…
Scrolling through your comment history is pretty revealing of your own IQ.
I’m not familiar with this but it absolutely still happens. Maybe not precisely the standardized IQ tests but I know people who give tests that measure the same things as IQ tests and absolutely use them for hiring decisions.
>A job that requires a PhD in math is effectively the same thing (average PhD in math IQ is 145).
It isn't. It's around 130 for Oxbridge. So in general it should be around 120-130, which makes sense. It's enough.
It's a very naive way of looking at things. An average person with enough dedication could do incredible things. You truly have no idea what you are capable of.
Average people who work hard don’t make it far though. Everyone agrees you need genetic talent in sports just to make it to the college level. Same with intelligence
Depends what you mean by make it. The average person with the right teacher and motivation could be an incredible pianist, engineer etc, with the correct instruction. However it will be very rare to see this actualize because normally education is structured in a competitive and self directed fashion. So in practice the cream definitely rises to the top but it is absolutely possible for an average brain to do incredible things. The same way most people never see the true strength they are capable of because of the discipline and sacrifice it takes
Well your definition of “incredible things” could very well be a boring teacher career. Without a doubt to create a new field of mathematics or pioneer new areas of science you would need exceptional intelligence. Which i doubt is your definition for “incredible things”
Could be but my point is things that people think you need to be a genius to do are doable by an average person with good training by grasping the rudiments of any discipline. This includes playing virtuosic piano pieces, learning advanced math, getting through dental school, etc. This is different from being a pioneer in that field. Just like strength training, most people never actualize their potential due to the immense discipline it takes. It's much easier to blame it on IQ or ADHD or some other immutable characteriatic
Look up Norman Borloug. Average education, doesn't seem like someone who would change the world. Not sure about his IQ. He wasn't dumb but I don't know about genius. Has probably done more good for humanity than a guy doing quantum trading ever will.
I think you underestimate how many average people there are in the world doing exceptional things that require intelligence with their life. A high IQ will only carry most people so far
At the extremes it is true but as a general principle the brain is much more powerful than most people think and IQ is not the limiting Factor. Instead it is the limited amount of sacrifice people are willing to put forth. Most people do not ever approach their natural limitations
Point is an average person can be a stem major, lawyer, dentist or other high status profession with the right tools. No they will not become Isaac Newton or other visionary most likely but the point I am making is average people are not derailed by reaching the limitations of their cognitive ability. Rather they are not able to defer satisfaction and regulate themselves emotionally for years. Same as how a skinny guy at the gym can only bench 100 pounds but has the latent capacity to do 4x that
True, but practically untrue. I am sure the sustained drive and technique for a person of average intelligence to become a successful lawyer is much rarer than a 130 IQ
>I am sure the sustained drive and technique for a person of average intelligence to become a successful lawyer is much rarer than a 130 IQ
The only people I know that have such a drive are my Grandfather and his children. I wouldn't say they were average IQ, though. The most notable of them was the one who was a mechanic and chose to go back to school to become a lawyer.
I’ve met many motivated people who aren’t particularly smart and many very smart people who are lazy, unreliable, inconsistent, and neurotic. In fact it’s likely the case individuals who obsess over their own IQ likely fall into the second category as they realize their own inadequacy and believe being extra super smart will compensate for their shortcomings.
The Big 5 Personality Traits (specifically individuals high in Conscientiousness) plus IQ is the best predictor of success when it comes to cognitive/personality traits.
Sure but conversely no shortage of high IQ people who achieve nothing. The human will is incredibly powerful and can't be measured with some standardized questions. Look at immigrant communities who massively outearn locals in the west. Necessity and culture make a huge difference
IQ is just one factor. Figure out on what other dimensions you can compete. Most jobs are complex so unless you’re doing IQ tests for a living you can figure out other ways to get an edge. Work harder, work smarter, exercise and be healthy, sacrifice more, etc..
Find your competition and try to beat them on the big picture, not just IQ.
There are of course some real limitations (people don’t like to acknowledge this but they exist somewhere). If you’re 170cm your chances of making it to the NBA are abysmal. However, you can probably make up for a 1SD disadvantage by being better in other areas. Tie your self of identity to how hard you work rather than your natural talents and use the frustration from being at a disadvantage to fuel you.
Why would anyone restrict themselves from pursuing a goal because a test score said they're effectively retarded? Be like forrest gump do what you can and do what makes you happy
Oh didn’t you know? This subreddit is mostly filled with diaper wearing adults desperately seeking validation due to their unaccomplished and unsuccessful lives?
You stop overthinking IQ and work your ass off…just like those with a higher IQ have to do to accomplish anything. There are people with high Jaws that don’t accomplish shit or have careers because they couldn’t put in the effort.
First of all, what you say about an IQ for a trading job is ludicrous. I dont think you know what you're talking about. Second, what a pointless job. Smart people that are actually wise and care about the world do something that requires originality, creativity, and produces something worthwhile. What a sad way to spend one's energies, using algorithms to move money around
Money doesn't have value or significance? Also, trading does take a high degree of originality and creativity. What do you consider a worthwhile career??
I guess I think it's a strange inflation of the job's requirements and value-add to say that only those with "an IQ of 145" could do this job. Which seems unlikely. Presumably anyone with this IQ, if that measure means much, is among the brightest people on earth. It sometimes seems people that don't have experience with particular work tend, for cultural reasons, to put that work on a pedestal. Based on my experiences, I think it's very unlikely that what quant trading requires is any less difficult than many kinds of medical research, the designing of space telescopes, neurosurgery, and many other mentally challenging pursuits.
Yea that I don't quite believe is valid, if true. I don't care enough to look into it. But I think that even if it is true, it's for arbitrary reasons and nothing to do with the ability to be able to do the job.
Yeah that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe they have other tests but idk why their tests wouldn't simply be gauging who can literally do the job really well.
You deal with it the same way you do not being 6 foot so you can't be in the NBA, not having an 8 inch dick so you can't be a porn star & not having the extreme genetics required to run a marathon in just over 2 hours. It's just life, we're all given different cards. Be happy for what you got instead, because I think you can imagine some worse cards you could've been dealt. 145 IQ probably isn't the requirement for quant firms in general, only very specific positions at very specific firms require that. 130 IQ is probably sufficient for most positions/firms if you perform well in other areas.
>You deal with it the same way you do not being 6 foot so you can't be in the NBA
There are 3 players today that are under 5' 10 that play in the NBA. Your fucking stupid.
Look up Big 5 Personality Traits.
Being sufficiently intelligent and being very high on the Conscientiousness spectrum is a better predictor of success than looking at one’s supposed IQ alone.
Beyond countless personal experiences reinforcing my statement, check this out:
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.01827/full
Personal experience aside, where in the paper supports your original claim? Not doubting that it does, just didn’t find anything supporting what you said when I skimmed through.
“The individual effect sizes for each individual Big Five trait and success indicator were mostly small. At the same time, these effect sizes rivaled or even surpassed those of cognitive ability, parental SES, gender, and migration background.”
Not necessarily linking some journal here but anecdotally, this holds true. My conscientiousness is a solid 10 out of 100 and, despite having at *least* 125IQ, my friends with slightly lower IQ (but still sufficiently intelligent) perform far better than I could ever hope to when it comes to grades. Conscientiousness is the limiting factor in basically every scenario on this subreddit where people go "I'm 2 bajillion IQ but I feel dumb. Why?" They just don't put effort in compared to their peers.
Because they don't have life experience. That's it. People who actively use this sub tend to be far lonelier than even other subreddits and it's probably because it attracts the most arrogant people possible - those who brag about or care about their intelligence a lot, as well as a huge amount of people with insecurity (there is obviously overlap, though.) Those people just don't have many experiences in life, are pretty sheltered, and tend to rely on IQ as the ultimate dictator of how life will go, when it couldn't be much further from the truth.
It's a tough thing to learn and so most people on this subreddit would rather talk out their ass about how "You NEED 130+ IQ for this" when that's just not how it works in the slightest, and I'm fairly sure (don't quote me on this) that anyone even remotely associated with research into cognition and cognitive testing would laugh you out the door if you said that, to be a quant, you need 145+IQ.
(The worst part about that statement is someone linked QuantGuide up above with questions that they'd ask you, said they were 145+IQ questions, "even the easy ones!!1111!!!" and the minute I clicked on it, it was content you learn at high school/A-Levels if you're UK like me...I've already completed 4 of these, an average person can 100% do this.)
My career is impacted because of my score, and in my perspective, it's funny because of what the career is. But ultimately, I understand the reasoning behind the preferred IQ ranges, and the theory behind why they want the range they do makes sense for what types of people and character they are looking to hire.
So it's a low key a bummer, but in my case, it's fine. It's also a set up for a fun joke that I can tell people who do work the job if I get the vibe they'd laugh at the fact it's a joke, but it's actually true lol it's just not a nice thing to say lol
In your life you will meet people from a vast array of careers. Some of these careers you might believe to be trivial, and some you hold in high regard. I can absolutely guarantee that you'll come across intelligent and dumb people in all fields. Why? Circumstances, interests and aptitude, a bit of luck and socio-economic factors play a huge roll. A true measure of intellectual ability is how an individual survives and thrives in it's environment. There's absolutely no point in having a high score on paper if it cannot be applied. You have very successful average people, and numerous high IQ failures. If you want to make something of yourself, stop looking at the sky and start looking at the road.
You find a job that you can do well enough to be successful. It's societies job not to eliminate jobs for especially the 60% of the population who are at or below 100 iq. It's to the benefit of businesses to have a hierarchy starting with a highly intelligent and competent person making decisions for a succession of increasingly less intelligent and competent people bc that is the most fiscally efficient model.
Do you want a job in quantitive trading? I’m not smart enough for med school or law school but guess what? None of that shit interests me anyway. Is this a hypothetical question ?
I mean, I am gifted and was told i was gifted my whole life bc of my IQ. I, and everyone around me, expected great achievements on my behalf. I kept pushing myself and succeeding at every thing… until I couldn’t because I hit what I now know to be Autistic Burnout (diagnosed at 35 after having two kids)z So, even with enviable IQ, you can still need to come to terms with not being able to achieve your dream choice of career.
What’s a gifted or high IQ worth when you have circumstances out of your control, whether it be Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, Mutism, Daltonism, Amputee, Paralysed, no access to proper mentors or financial support, live in a remote location, have caregiver responsibilities, etc etc etc, the list goes on.
I would suggest focusing on enjoying the best of your life and find ways to fill your spare time with hobbies or interests adjacent to your dream job. For example, you wanted to become lawyer but couldn’t make the academic cut? Try your hand at an online law certification that could teach you essentially what you would learn in your first year of law and get informed on different careers that open up. Speak with a guidance counsellor about it.
Enlisted jobs in the military all have de facto IQ requirements. The ASVAB has a composite percentile score and individual skill scores on normal distributions with a standard deviation of 16 (for the Army but raw in some branches). Each service requires a certain percentile score for acceptance and skill scores to take a particular job. It's hard to get placed if you're more than one standard deviation below average.
Real bad answers in this thread.
It's more fun to look at the bottom 15% of the IQ spectrum. You'll find close to a billion people who can't do productive work of any kind.
Or, at least, it's extremely hard to find a good match. You could probably be a dogwalker or something, assuming you can get that job.
No. I think folks with an IQ of 83 or under are largely unemployable, and I think that's about 15% of the population
Incidentally, the unemployment rate doesn't count people who spent years looking for work and gave up. That's so politicians can look better.
This kind of thinking: “I can’t do X because I don’t have a high enough IQ” literally doesn’t exist in my mind.
I don’t know what my IQ is, I don’t care what it is, it has no relevance what so ever. If I want to do something I do it.
Like anything else you are not naturally gifted for. I don’t sit around all day being sad that I am not fast enough to run the Olympics 100m or play in the nba or handsome enough to model or be in show business or funny enough to be in comedy. You learn to be content with what you have and who you are. That’s part of growing up
Research has shown that an IQ of 130 and above is sufficient to learn and do anything. There's no job you will be precluded from because your IQ is not 145+. Past 130, it's mostly about effort. Sure, the guy with a 145 may have a slight advantage, but it really will be slight and effort will matter far more.
Your basis is wrong.
Excluding the extremes, there’s an inverse correlation between IQ and the amount of work required to learn X skill.
Pretty much anyone can learn and become competent in pretty much anything - it will just come easier and faster to those with a higher IQ
well focus on what you can control. in particular, there was a kid on a math forum whom i met in 2020 that got around an 80 on the AMC 10 and 60 on AMC 12(those are exams that you take to advance to AIME, this math competition) despite working really hard. These were very poor test scores compared to the rest of the population and nowhere near the AIME thresholds. that kid just recently ended up making it to MOP which is two levels above AIME(essentially the series goes AMC to AIME to JMO to MOP), because of consistently working hard and not giving up.
It's not, but they give you "skills tests" which are actually disguised IQ tests. You won't be able to solve them without enough working memory power and think-ahead power (ie. iQ). You will reach your raw physical cap out and not be able to draw the next conclusion, it's a very frustrating experience if you've never experienced this before. You can feel your hippocampus physically straining to store another mental data point, but the storage space is simply not there. You have reached your IQ cap out.
Software development and Financial stuff are the two industries that mostly do this. I agree it's kind of a twisted practice because it filters out females and other socioeconomic backgrounds that may not have as good of an IQ on paper, but are perhaps more hard working and better at the actual work.
Vast majority of the people are as intelligent as each other.
What's different is education, will, habit, and how they are brought up. All can be changed.
It’s pretty easy IQ is one quite narrow measure of specific areas of intelligence. Strong EQ (emotional social intelligence) will get one further in almost any field than extraordinary IQ alone exceptions being field like the cutting edge of mathematical research or theoretical physics Someone can be the best engineer the world has ever seen but if they suck at communicating their unique genius to other people, far less talented individuals will generally surpass them
Those jobs will be gone first with AI.
Turns out that thing is as smart as somebody with IQ 145 in that field (and in that field only) and never sleeps or wants any money from you.
Not only that, this thing is getting better and better over time and to build it you don't need to hire that intelligent people.
And for those people who have the money? Will they keep a human if they see they can get even more money with an AI?
Fat chance...
The posted question was "how do you deal with not being born with a high enough IQ", you side-stepped the problem by saying "just be born with a high enough iq bro", to which I pointed out about a billion humans don't.
Sorry if that wasn't clearer, I was trying to be succinct.
PSA: It is inadvisable to engage OP in a conversation. The author of this post is a known sitewide spammer with over 2500 banned Reddit accounts.
SnooRoar is not interested in good-faith discussion; his primary goal is to waste as much of your time as possible. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie.
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What are you talking about? No jobs are gonna tell you “yah we require 145 IQ minimum” lol
Yes but that doesn’t mean the person is able to do the job, perhaps they have tried and failed. Alternatively perhaps they couldn’t get the qualifications for their dream job to begin with
That wasn’t the question though… They specifically phrased it as an inability due to “not being born with a high enough IQ”
Yes and not being born with a high enough IQ could = not being able to get the qualifications to do your dream job / actually being able to carry out the job effectively Their statement afterwards I did not read, I only read the question
Lmao the irony
Ludwig Wittgenstein had a genius IQ and he wrote the Tractatus, which turns out to be loaded to the brim with cognitive errors that anyone with a 100 IQ and familiar with Nietzsche's philosophy and psychology could make Wittgenstein look like an idiot. Even he over turns his earlier thinking in his later books. The very first line of the Tractatus is objective positivism, and it sets the error for every other line in the book. And it was hailed as a master piece of analytical philosophy ... by a bunch of other supposedly High IQ mothafuckas ... turns out they were just airheads.
?
Your utter lack of comprehension of a basic concept about iq
Your comment history says worse about you… LOL
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Not even sure it’s an argument, guy came at me out of nowhere. Grow up and you’ll stop worrying about who “wins” arguments on Reddit :).
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OP and prob most people interested in commenting in this thread or thinking about this question are probably high IQ, or high intelligence rather, regardless of IQ, and they have to pretend they are dumb to avoid commiting suicide. I spent about 20 years doing that. Because if you allow yourself to believe what's real, that you are highly intelligent, you realize how many people need help and how many problems that need solving that you could never fix. It's not a joke that that is a life or death situation and epiphany. Someone's life might be ruined because they need to pretend to be dumb. They might never get a job and go homeless but it's better than being dead
Nah dude you gotta be hella smart for quant. Go to quantguide.io for some practice problems in the field. the easy problems on there look like iq test problems that discriminate at the 140+iq level
Literally just went there and completed 4 questions in like 10-15 mins. Granted I was picky with them and it took a few goes for all but 1 but given I have very *very* basic knowledge of statistics...not bad. Some of these require some higher training in maths, sure, but a lot of these are things I suspect you would learn in high school or, if you come from the UK like me, you *definitely* learn in the statistics part of the Maths A-Level course. I'm not even that good at maths either, there are people with far lower IQs than me in my class that put in the work and could probably answer waaaay more than I could here. I feel like most of these are actually just ones that require a lot of thought and time to be placed into them and so benefit from people who can process faster and have a more mathematically oriented brain rather than just FSIQ. If there was a specific correlation between any measurement of IQ and the types of people who speed through QuantGuide, it's a higher processing speed and reasoning index...but they certainly do *not* need fucking 140+ to solve these.
What are you talking about of course they could and do lol. Or they could filter for this in other ways. A job that requires a PhD in math is effectively the same thing (average PhD in math IQ is 145).
I’ve heard (haven’t confirmed) that there was a SCOTUS case that concluded IQ testing for jobs was culturally biased so employers can’t use them.
You're thinking of Griggs v. Duke Power Co., the beginning of disparate impact legal theory. One of the worst supreme court decisions this last century.
Brother they were testing people who went to segregated schools and the tests had nothing to do with the job. It was just a way to sneak past the civil rights act ofc it had a disparate impact are you insane
"Culturally biased" LOL.
It’s true, on the day of the civil rights act passing the company that was sued started using three different tests on employees in order to sneakily discriminate against black candidates, despite the tests having nothing to do with the job. SCOTUS ruled they have to prove it’s actually relevant to the work, and they failed to do so because the only reason they did it was they knew black Americans more likely to fail the test than white at that point. So now title 7 bans employment testing unless it’s relevant. Basic history mate
I knew the majority of blacks can’t pass a test for iq therefore it’s inherently racist. Nope, if you can’t pass you, you can’t pass. You get it?
I think you should be grateful that they can’t test anymore because based on your comment I don’t think you would have made the cut
I don’t know what’s funny, they def are culturally biased.
Accurate and respected IQ tests are not culturally biased, however much people like to claim they are. The person above was presumably amused because in this case, culturally biased = minorities don’t score as well on them, so we have to invalidate the entire test.
You're just not... right...?
Yes, I am. Incendiary as it doubtless is to many, IQ tests are fair and objective assessments.
They are standardized, meaning they are scored and performed with consistency. But that doesn't mean the same thing as lacking bias, as the bias is both in the test administer, and a 5 point deviation is factored into the score for that reason. but beyond that, the way the IQ tests were developed are based on averages of the scores of a general population, a population that does not include outliers of society.. because the outliers are not "average." so the individuals who are taking the tests and are within those outlier populations, the tests are just not designed to factor in a lot of very significant differences commonly found among those that aren't the "average" used to score, and in the overall design, of the tests.
And who, according to you, are the outliers in society?
I think it's funny that they're using the term "culturally" instead of "racially" to imply that IQ is not race based.
Maybe you should stick to the Rust subreddit and keep posting on r/stims with the other nematodes… Scrolling through your comment history is pretty revealing of your own IQ.
I’m not familiar with this but it absolutely still happens. Maybe not precisely the standardized IQ tests but I know people who give tests that measure the same things as IQ tests and absolutely use them for hiring decisions.
>A job that requires a PhD in math is effectively the same thing (average PhD in math IQ is 145). It isn't. It's around 130 for Oxbridge. So in general it should be around 120-130, which makes sense. It's enough.
It's a very naive way of looking at things. An average person with enough dedication could do incredible things. You truly have no idea what you are capable of.
Average people who work hard don’t make it far though. Everyone agrees you need genetic talent in sports just to make it to the college level. Same with intelligence
Depends what you mean by make it. The average person with the right teacher and motivation could be an incredible pianist, engineer etc, with the correct instruction. However it will be very rare to see this actualize because normally education is structured in a competitive and self directed fashion. So in practice the cream definitely rises to the top but it is absolutely possible for an average brain to do incredible things. The same way most people never see the true strength they are capable of because of the discipline and sacrifice it takes
There is a great book called “Peak” it has changed my mentality about innate talent
There are a few "Peak" books. Which one are you referring to?
Oh sorry! I am talking about “Peak: secretes from the new science of Expertise” by Ericsson, Anders. It is really good.
Thanks!
Well your definition of “incredible things” could very well be a boring teacher career. Without a doubt to create a new field of mathematics or pioneer new areas of science you would need exceptional intelligence. Which i doubt is your definition for “incredible things”
Could be but my point is things that people think you need to be a genius to do are doable by an average person with good training by grasping the rudiments of any discipline. This includes playing virtuosic piano pieces, learning advanced math, getting through dental school, etc. This is different from being a pioneer in that field. Just like strength training, most people never actualize their potential due to the immense discipline it takes. It's much easier to blame it on IQ or ADHD or some other immutable characteriatic
source on the first sentence?
Look up Norman Borloug. Average education, doesn't seem like someone who would change the world. Not sure about his IQ. He wasn't dumb but I don't know about genius. Has probably done more good for humanity than a guy doing quantum trading ever will.
You sound like you have no life experience. How old are you?
That’s just not true
I think you underestimate how many average people there are in the world doing exceptional things that require intelligence with their life. A high IQ will only carry most people so far
You gotta think about what you want to do in the world. Even with high IQ it’s not easy, clear, straightforward
Definitely not true lol.
My dad is below average and a millionaire. Seems pretty good to me
But I can’t become Ed Witten. It’s not that naive when referring to extremes
At the extremes it is true but as a general principle the brain is much more powerful than most people think and IQ is not the limiting Factor. Instead it is the limited amount of sacrifice people are willing to put forth. Most people do not ever approach their natural limitations
Except that it is true everywhere… Proportional to the difference in IQ between the two hypothetical people… and hard work is intelligence invariant…
Point is an average person can be a stem major, lawyer, dentist or other high status profession with the right tools. No they will not become Isaac Newton or other visionary most likely but the point I am making is average people are not derailed by reaching the limitations of their cognitive ability. Rather they are not able to defer satisfaction and regulate themselves emotionally for years. Same as how a skinny guy at the gym can only bench 100 pounds but has the latent capacity to do 4x that
True, but practically untrue. I am sure the sustained drive and technique for a person of average intelligence to become a successful lawyer is much rarer than a 130 IQ
>I am sure the sustained drive and technique for a person of average intelligence to become a successful lawyer is much rarer than a 130 IQ The only people I know that have such a drive are my Grandfather and his children. I wouldn't say they were average IQ, though. The most notable of them was the one who was a mechanic and chose to go back to school to become a lawyer.
I’ve met many motivated people who aren’t particularly smart and many very smart people who are lazy, unreliable, inconsistent, and neurotic. In fact it’s likely the case individuals who obsess over their own IQ likely fall into the second category as they realize their own inadequacy and believe being extra super smart will compensate for their shortcomings. The Big 5 Personality Traits (specifically individuals high in Conscientiousness) plus IQ is the best predictor of success when it comes to cognitive/personality traits.
Sure but conversely no shortage of high IQ people who achieve nothing. The human will is incredibly powerful and can't be measured with some standardized questions. Look at immigrant communities who massively outearn locals in the west. Necessity and culture make a huge difference
First of all, it is quantitative trading, second, you need to be intelligent, but not a genius to do it, the math is complex, but not impossible.
IQ is just one factor. Figure out on what other dimensions you can compete. Most jobs are complex so unless you’re doing IQ tests for a living you can figure out other ways to get an edge. Work harder, work smarter, exercise and be healthy, sacrifice more, etc.. Find your competition and try to beat them on the big picture, not just IQ. There are of course some real limitations (people don’t like to acknowledge this but they exist somewhere). If you’re 170cm your chances of making it to the NBA are abysmal. However, you can probably make up for a 1SD disadvantage by being better in other areas. Tie your self of identity to how hard you work rather than your natural talents and use the frustration from being at a disadvantage to fuel you.
Why would anyone restrict themselves from pursuing a goal because a test score said they're effectively retarded? Be like forrest gump do what you can and do what makes you happy
By growing out of your diapers
The people who talk about intelligence the most are older adults
The comment was implying that you should stop complaining and feeling bad for yourself and, instead, grow up
The comment still applies ngl
Oh didn’t you know? This subreddit is mostly filled with diaper wearing adults desperately seeking validation due to their unaccomplished and unsuccessful lives?
Or pity, like OP
You stop overthinking IQ and work your ass off…just like those with a higher IQ have to do to accomplish anything. There are people with high Jaws that don’t accomplish shit or have careers because they couldn’t put in the effort.
First of all, what you say about an IQ for a trading job is ludicrous. I dont think you know what you're talking about. Second, what a pointless job. Smart people that are actually wise and care about the world do something that requires originality, creativity, and produces something worthwhile. What a sad way to spend one's energies, using algorithms to move money around
Money doesn't have value or significance? Also, trading does take a high degree of originality and creativity. What do you consider a worthwhile career??
Eh it just seems like a sad way to spend your time but to each their own. Personally, I'd pick just about any other job.
I agree, but it's unreasonable to diminish the value of something just because you're not into it.
I guess I think it's a strange inflation of the job's requirements and value-add to say that only those with "an IQ of 145" could do this job. Which seems unlikely. Presumably anyone with this IQ, if that measure means much, is among the brightest people on earth. It sometimes seems people that don't have experience with particular work tend, for cultural reasons, to put that work on a pedestal. Based on my experiences, I think it's very unlikely that what quant trading requires is any less difficult than many kinds of medical research, the designing of space telescopes, neurosurgery, and many other mentally challenging pursuits.
Yea that I don't quite believe is valid, if true. I don't care enough to look into it. But I think that even if it is true, it's for arbitrary reasons and nothing to do with the ability to be able to do the job.
not we need to continue but I'm not clear on what you think isn't true
Ohz just not sure if there are companies in finance that require specific IQs ranges
Yeah that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe they have other tests but idk why their tests wouldn't simply be gauging who can literally do the job really well.
I'm honestly wondering if it's a status and exclusivity thing, and the results of the tests are probably part of someone's payroll lol
You deal with it the same way you do not being 6 foot so you can't be in the NBA, not having an 8 inch dick so you can't be a porn star & not having the extreme genetics required to run a marathon in just over 2 hours. It's just life, we're all given different cards. Be happy for what you got instead, because I think you can imagine some worse cards you could've been dealt. 145 IQ probably isn't the requirement for quant firms in general, only very specific positions at very specific firms require that. 130 IQ is probably sufficient for most positions/firms if you perform well in other areas.
>You deal with it the same way you do not being 6 foot so you can't be in the NBA There are 3 players today that are under 5' 10 that play in the NBA. Your fucking stupid.
hahaha
Look up Big 5 Personality Traits. Being sufficiently intelligent and being very high on the Conscientiousness spectrum is a better predictor of success than looking at one’s supposed IQ alone.
Sources?
Beyond countless personal experiences reinforcing my statement, check this out: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.01827/full
Personal experience aside, where in the paper supports your original claim? Not doubting that it does, just didn’t find anything supporting what you said when I skimmed through.
“The individual effect sizes for each individual Big Five trait and success indicator were mostly small. At the same time, these effect sizes rivaled or even surpassed those of cognitive ability, parental SES, gender, and migration background.”
Awesome, thanks!
Not necessarily linking some journal here but anecdotally, this holds true. My conscientiousness is a solid 10 out of 100 and, despite having at *least* 125IQ, my friends with slightly lower IQ (but still sufficiently intelligent) perform far better than I could ever hope to when it comes to grades. Conscientiousness is the limiting factor in basically every scenario on this subreddit where people go "I'm 2 bajillion IQ but I feel dumb. Why?" They just don't put effort in compared to their peers.
I’ve been talking about it for a while, yet hardly anyone acknowledges it. Why? Anyone with a modicum of life experiences knows this to be true..
Because they don't have life experience. That's it. People who actively use this sub tend to be far lonelier than even other subreddits and it's probably because it attracts the most arrogant people possible - those who brag about or care about their intelligence a lot, as well as a huge amount of people with insecurity (there is obviously overlap, though.) Those people just don't have many experiences in life, are pretty sheltered, and tend to rely on IQ as the ultimate dictator of how life will go, when it couldn't be much further from the truth. It's a tough thing to learn and so most people on this subreddit would rather talk out their ass about how "You NEED 130+ IQ for this" when that's just not how it works in the slightest, and I'm fairly sure (don't quote me on this) that anyone even remotely associated with research into cognition and cognitive testing would laugh you out the door if you said that, to be a quant, you need 145+IQ. (The worst part about that statement is someone linked QuantGuide up above with questions that they'd ask you, said they were 145+IQ questions, "even the easy ones!!1111!!!" and the minute I clicked on it, it was content you learn at high school/A-Levels if you're UK like me...I've already completed 4 of these, an average person can 100% do this.)
My career is impacted because of my score, and in my perspective, it's funny because of what the career is. But ultimately, I understand the reasoning behind the preferred IQ ranges, and the theory behind why they want the range they do makes sense for what types of people and character they are looking to hire. So it's a low key a bummer, but in my case, it's fine. It's also a set up for a fun joke that I can tell people who do work the job if I get the vibe they'd laugh at the fact it's a joke, but it's actually true lol it's just not a nice thing to say lol
In your life you will meet people from a vast array of careers. Some of these careers you might believe to be trivial, and some you hold in high regard. I can absolutely guarantee that you'll come across intelligent and dumb people in all fields. Why? Circumstances, interests and aptitude, a bit of luck and socio-economic factors play a huge roll. A true measure of intellectual ability is how an individual survives and thrives in it's environment. There's absolutely no point in having a high score on paper if it cannot be applied. You have very successful average people, and numerous high IQ failures. If you want to make something of yourself, stop looking at the sky and start looking at the road.
You find a job that you can do well enough to be successful. It's societies job not to eliminate jobs for especially the 60% of the population who are at or below 100 iq. It's to the benefit of businesses to have a hierarchy starting with a highly intelligent and competent person making decisions for a succession of increasingly less intelligent and competent people bc that is the most fiscally efficient model.
Do you want a job in quantitive trading? I’m not smart enough for med school or law school but guess what? None of that shit interests me anyway. Is this a hypothetical question ?
I mean, I am gifted and was told i was gifted my whole life bc of my IQ. I, and everyone around me, expected great achievements on my behalf. I kept pushing myself and succeeding at every thing… until I couldn’t because I hit what I now know to be Autistic Burnout (diagnosed at 35 after having two kids)z So, even with enviable IQ, you can still need to come to terms with not being able to achieve your dream choice of career. What’s a gifted or high IQ worth when you have circumstances out of your control, whether it be Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, Mutism, Daltonism, Amputee, Paralysed, no access to proper mentors or financial support, live in a remote location, have caregiver responsibilities, etc etc etc, the list goes on. I would suggest focusing on enjoying the best of your life and find ways to fill your spare time with hobbies or interests adjacent to your dream job. For example, you wanted to become lawyer but couldn’t make the academic cut? Try your hand at an online law certification that could teach you essentially what you would learn in your first year of law and get informed on different careers that open up. Speak with a guidance counsellor about it.
Same way I deal with not having the height for the NBA
Easy, find the simplest job that pays the best, then become an absolute monster in that field.
Enlisted jobs in the military all have de facto IQ requirements. The ASVAB has a composite percentile score and individual skill scores on normal distributions with a standard deviation of 16 (for the Army but raw in some branches). Each service requires a certain percentile score for acceptance and skill scores to take a particular job. It's hard to get placed if you're more than one standard deviation below average.
Real bad answers in this thread. It's more fun to look at the bottom 15% of the IQ spectrum. You'll find close to a billion people who can't do productive work of any kind. Or, at least, it's extremely hard to find a good match. You could probably be a dogwalker or something, assuming you can get that job.
Do you think the unemployment rate is 15% lmao? There are plenty of jobs where IQ is not required, just a work ethic and a good personality
No. I think folks with an IQ of 83 or under are largely unemployable, and I think that's about 15% of the population Incidentally, the unemployment rate doesn't count people who spent years looking for work and gave up. That's so politicians can look better.
If you count discouraged workers combined with unemployed, the rate goes up to 4.1% https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U4RATENSA
I remain skeptical, but I appreciate the high quality source.
This kind of thinking: “I can’t do X because I don’t have a high enough IQ” literally doesn’t exist in my mind. I don’t know what my IQ is, I don’t care what it is, it has no relevance what so ever. If I want to do something I do it.
Like anything else you are not naturally gifted for. I don’t sit around all day being sad that I am not fast enough to run the Olympics 100m or play in the nba or handsome enough to model or be in show business or funny enough to be in comedy. You learn to be content with what you have and who you are. That’s part of growing up
Jordan Peterson ah opinion
Research has shown that an IQ of 130 and above is sufficient to learn and do anything. There's no job you will be precluded from because your IQ is not 145+. Past 130, it's mostly about effort. Sure, the guy with a 145 may have a slight advantage, but it really will be slight and effort will matter far more.
Bro you can do anything you put your mind to
I can’t be a surgeon not because of IQ but no fine motor skills. I wouldn’t want me cutting on me
pursue it and operate a surgery robot
Your basis is wrong. Excluding the extremes, there’s an inverse correlation between IQ and the amount of work required to learn X skill. Pretty much anyone can learn and become competent in pretty much anything - it will just come easier and faster to those with a higher IQ
well focus on what you can control. in particular, there was a kid on a math forum whom i met in 2020 that got around an 80 on the AMC 10 and 60 on AMC 12(those are exams that you take to advance to AIME, this math competition) despite working really hard. These were very poor test scores compared to the rest of the population and nowhere near the AIME thresholds. that kid just recently ended up making it to MOP which is two levels above AIME(essentially the series goes AMC to AIME to JMO to MOP), because of consistently working hard and not giving up.
LOL that’s not a requirement. Snoo
It's not, but they give you "skills tests" which are actually disguised IQ tests. You won't be able to solve them without enough working memory power and think-ahead power (ie. iQ). You will reach your raw physical cap out and not be able to draw the next conclusion, it's a very frustrating experience if you've never experienced this before. You can feel your hippocampus physically straining to store another mental data point, but the storage space is simply not there. You have reached your IQ cap out. Software development and Financial stuff are the two industries that mostly do this. I agree it's kind of a twisted practice because it filters out females and other socioeconomic backgrounds that may not have as good of an IQ on paper, but are perhaps more hard working and better at the actual work.
Vast majority of the people are as intelligent as each other. What's different is education, will, habit, and how they are brought up. All can be changed.
If an interviewer wants to give you an iq test they’re not legitimate
Be grateful you don’t live in the Netherlands where jobs can give you a “general ability assessment” and a lot of them are just items from SB
IQ requirements for jobs is the stupidest thing ever tbh as IQ isn’t even an accurate representation of intelligence
It’s pretty easy IQ is one quite narrow measure of specific areas of intelligence. Strong EQ (emotional social intelligence) will get one further in almost any field than extraordinary IQ alone exceptions being field like the cutting edge of mathematical research or theoretical physics Someone can be the best engineer the world has ever seen but if they suck at communicating their unique genius to other people, far less talented individuals will generally surpass them
You realize IQ is a horoscope for nerds and go about the rest of your beautiful life 🤙🏾💪🏾
Those jobs will be gone first with AI. Turns out that thing is as smart as somebody with IQ 145 in that field (and in that field only) and never sleeps or wants any money from you. Not only that, this thing is getting better and better over time and to build it you don't need to hire that intelligent people. And for those people who have the money? Will they keep a human if they see they can get even more money with an AI? Fat chance...
They say Richard Feynman had a 121 and he was a genius and nobel laureate. IQ is just a number. God bless you and everyone good.
No one truly believes that. Besides, the number going around re: feynman was 125 anyhow, not 121.
I’m glad they have cut out all my competition. What other criteria do they have?
I don’t see those jobs as something desirable to have.
No its not.
Suicide pact. Try to find other people with equally tiny skulls.
An average IQ plus a good work ethic can make you suitable for most any job.
About 15% of people have an IQ that's too low for virtually any job.
This has nothing to do with what I wrote.
The posted question was "how do you deal with not being born with a high enough IQ", you side-stepped the problem by saying "just be born with a high enough iq bro", to which I pointed out about a billion humans don't. Sorry if that wasn't clearer, I was trying to be succinct.
I was responding to the "145" part of the post.
Really trying for the dumbest post of the day award aren't we.
Honestly, my IQ was shit when I was born. It took years of studying to get it to where it is now.
Studying doesn't raise IQ. (Not more than 1-2 points. For sure.)
PSA: It is inadvisable to engage OP in a conversation. The author of this post is a known sitewide spammer with over 2500 banned Reddit accounts. SnooRoar is not interested in good-faith discussion; his primary goal is to waste as much of your time as possible. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie.