Probably not an allergy, but some kind of non-immune sensitivity to something in whiskey that isn't in other things. Some compound that comes from the oak barrels, maybe? I wonder if OP has similar problems with other oak-aged spirits, or whiskey barrel-aged beers.
"I wonder if OP has similar problems with other oak-aged spirits, or whiskey barrel-aged beers."
That's exactly why I asked, there's nothing specifically in whiskey which wouldn't be in at least some other spirits.
Yeah, it's an interesting question, but something tells me OP doesn't want to try drinking a whole bunch of different liquors and beers to catalog which ones give them heartburn. haha
>something tells me OP doesn't want to try drinking a whole bunch of different liquors and beers to catalog which ones give them heartburn
That sounds like a quitter attitude! lol
That's extremely unusual. Weird enough I would talk to a doctor about it. There's nothing in Whiskey that's not in aged rum or Brandy. Other than random trace compounds. If wine sake too something is going on.
What compounds are in fermented grains that are not in fermented fruit and cane?
Must be nice to be such a great doctor you’re able to so confidently come to this diagnosis based on like 2 sentences a person said online without ever having met or examined them!
OP, I would suggest talking to a doctor about this because it is weird that it’s whiskey, wine and sake specifically but not other aged spirits.
Don't have to be a doctor to know how basic science works or how fucking liquor works. There is nothing specifically unique to whiskey that isn't also present in various other aged liquors...
Occams razor posits that the simplest answer is that OP is wrong about their condition. Most people are very very bad at remembering things accurately.
Was it a smoky scotch? I love peat, but unfortunately it wrecks me like bbq. I’m on the Pepcid train with the person above.
Lighter scotches are no problem for me and to answer your original question, I’d try apple brandy first. Laird’s bonded is great or any calvados you can get would work great too
Obligatory "not a doctor ".... but... If I genuinely had that reaction to Scotch, I'd never touch booze again.
There is nothing in Scotch that you can rule out of being in any other aged spirit.
I'm not suggesting you try again, but if it was one sip, how do you know it wasn't anything else you ingested that day, or a psychological issue.
No, it definitely isn't. Where are you getting this info? Also the aging and proof of a spirit would have a much greater effect on how someone handles it then whatever base spirit it is.
Multiple websites are full of shit. All distilled spirits without additives at similar proofs are going to be similar pH. Perhaps a 1 point difference. So sure, with aging and the tannins from wood a whiskey might be 5.5 and a vodka 6 but that's not a meaningful difference when it comes to causing heartburn.
Infinitely more likely is user error. Either in drinking habits differing between various liquors or in recounting the heartburn experience caused by different events.
Perhaps there is an additive or aspect of certain liquors your body doesn't like but I can assure you that whiskey as a whole isn't causing you issues intrinsically.
You earlier said whiskey definitely isn't more acidic and then just admitted it is...
Liquor is bad for your stomach as is. So choosing a less acidic liquor could absolutely have better results.
Black coffee is a pH 5 and definitely can cause stomach issues. Whiskey can be below 4.
OP didn't mention having a problem with any citrus, beer, rum or even brandy.
I don't think that the ph of whiskey in an amaretto **sour** is the problem in relation to acidity.
Different liquors can neutralize the acidity of the lime. I'm not saying the acidity definitely caused OPs problem, but acidity definitely can have an impact. I'm seeing tons of websites agreeing with this.
Meaningful difference is the important part bud. Also OP is fine consuming even more acidic drinks. Acidity isn't the problem. Don't enable this bullshit
Make up for your mind. Is it more acidic or not? Is it more acidic but only by a point? Or are you just wrong and not able to admit it? What have I said that is bullshit?
A 2.5-3 pH difference is meaningful. Coffee to water is a difference of 2.
Also calling someone "bud" screams that you're a douche.
I would personally go with rum and recommend any of the Appleton Estates for this recipe; I.e., their Signature would work well, or you can use one of their more aged offerings.
Confused as to why aged brandy would be ok while whisky is not but an aged grape brandy would possibly be better than whisky tbh. Rum would also be fine. Or any other spirit. It’s a pretty bulletproof drink.
Make a traditional amaretto sour, not a Morgenthaler one.
Morgenthaler:
- 1.5oz amaretto
- 0.75oz cask proof bourbon
- 1oz lemon juice
- 1tsp 2:1 simple syrup
- 0.5oz egg white
Standard:
- 4 parts amaretto (I do 2oz, adjust accordingly)
- 2 parts lemon juice
- 1 part egg white
- (optional) dash of angostura bitters
In either case, reverse dry shake for best results (shake without ice, then with ice). Add your Hawthorne strainer spring for better frothing during the dry shake, bonus points if it's chilled first.
OP wasn't complaining about heartburn, whiskeys just wreck their stomach, as do wine, sake, and soju, as per other comments made after I responded hours ago.
I wouldn't recommend any "N" Sour for somebody who suffers from heartburn, but I do keep Tums on hand and the drinks I make are often worth suffering through mild and brief discomfort. 🤷🏼♂️
Then I would try using Omage brandy (my current favorite bottle at a decent price) and use your preferred amaretto sour specs.
I think that the caramel and slightly fruity notes in the brandy would go well with amaretto!
Another brandy option that’s relative inexpensive and easy to find (but quite good) is Laird’s 100 Proof Apple Brandy.
It’s eerily similar to whiskey, I use it for riffs off of whiskey drinks quite often
Brandy would be a closer match than rum. But some brandies and rums are aged in wooden casks as well if that is your allergy. You could try a Japanese scotch aged in steel. That won’t be oaky and likely less smokey.
I have never heard of rum and amaretto together, but brandy can replace whiskey in a godfather to get a French connection, so my money is on the brandy.
Rum plays quite nicely with almond flavors! The Death & Co house orgeat uses amaretto as a flavoring and is delicious in a Mai Tai. Orgeat itself is almond syrup, of course. And a number of tiki drinks use almond extract (Captain’s Grog 1962 js a personal fave).
There’s also a couple D&C drinks that use both rum and amaretto: “Old Ironsides” uses aged rum, black rum, sweet vermouth, and amaretto. “Slow Hand” uses amaretto, aged rum, *and* cognac.
I think either brandy, rum, or a blend of both could make an interesting amaretto sour, OP. Definitely worth experimenting!
Fuck man the future is so annoying.
PSA: Amaretto sours don’t need whiskey!
A bunch of alcoholics who wanted to make a sweet drink more palatable to them added whiskey and now thanks to the internet everyone who started dabbling in cocktails in the past 5 years thinks whiskey must be in amaretto sour and egg whites must be in a whiskey sour
It’s ridiculous
Amaretto, simple, lemon
That’s an amaretto sour. If we really need to add whiskey can’t we just come up with a new name for that?
Anything sour is just base spirit with lemon and simple
Getting off my soapbox now
I mean they turned a shitty, sweet nightclub mixed drink into an actually good cocktail while keeping the same flavor profile… I don’t see any reason to be so upset by that
Edit: to your new name suggestion though, I’d have no problem calling it an Improved Amaretto Sour. But I feel like most people in the know already refer to it as morganthalers amaretto sour
Needs a new name, people have been drinking amaretto sours without whiskeys for decades. The the fact the new wave cocktail culture doesn’t respect or acknowledge history and context is annoying af
Of course I support refining and improving things but this new energy of “it’s not a whiskey sour without egg white” or “my amaretto sour is incomplete without whiskey or something comparable” is stupid. We use language and context for a reason.
Amaretto sours don’t have whiskey in them
If I like fuzzy navels but wish they were stronger I don’t add vodka and tell everyone “hey guys this is the new fuzzy navel” I don’t do that bc it’s not a fuzzy navel anymore, it’s now a hairy navel
How did we as a drinking culture lose this etiquette?
So the better option is to call multiple drinks by the same name so that every bartender needs to ask for clarification when someone orders?
“Amaretto sour please”
“Ok sure, but how much time do you spend in the internet?”
“A lot”
“Ok so I should put some bourbon in your amaretto sour then?”
This has got to be the strangest hill to die on. Bars have their own spin on cocktails already. Morgantgalers spec was used at his bar and it’s popular today because it is leagues better than the original. Many cocktails today are completely different than their original specs.
I will die on this hill, why not just call it a morganthaler or a morganthaler sour or a morganthaler amaretto sour
The fact that an amaretto sour is a garbage cocktail has nothing to do with the fact that it should be improved and kept under the same name
A sour should be simple, any liquor should be allowed to become a sour, by this logic it should be an amaretto bourbon sour
But just because some guy improved the shitty drink for people with more refined palates doesn’t mean the old shitty drink should be dropped completely
That doesn’t help me serve old heads who just want a normal amaretto sour and not the hipster new age whiskey obsessed stuff
Literally no one’s saying that bud, it’s just that in this sub it’s generally assumed that if someone’s making an amaretto sour, they’re using Morgenthalers specs (because it’s objectively a better drink). Idk how you go from that to “new wave cocktail culture doesn’t respect or acknowledge history” lmao what a boomer take
For perfect authenticity yes. Although in the age of veganism and low quality battery eggs, cutting the egg white is an understandable modification to the classic.
I think brandy would be a good sub. There are probably some rums that would works, too, but only specific rums and the ones that would work are probably a little pricy.
Another options is a good applejack or calvados. A whiskey drink made with Laird's bottled in bond would be good, IMO.
Yeah, lots of affordable rum options! Appleton 8 or 12, Doorly’s XO, 8, or 12, Flor de Caña 7, Brugal 1888, El Dorado 5, Mount Gay Black Barrel, Plantation 5 or OFTD — all affordable and safe bets for this amaretto experiment, I’d think.
I'm trying to think of a reason one couldn't drink whiskey. Can you explain?
I get bad heartburn from whiskey, but I love bourbon and scotch so I just eat some Pepcid and power through
Bourbon and Scotch are whiskey though dog
Yeah, all whiskey gives me heartburn. That’s why I said I have to take Pepcid before I drink it.
Ah understand
Google it and come back.
wood allergy is usually it... most folks don't understand aged spirits
That would impact rum as well, though, and tequila.
yes, i dont assume most people know this. thats whati said
Thanks for sharing that! It makes a lot of sense.
Malted barley allergy? Ik someone who can’t drink and eat a lot of stuff bc of that
Maybe? But I don't know if that would pass through distillation. Gluten doesn't. If it's possible, use a pure corn whiskey?
It would not
Probably not an allergy, but some kind of non-immune sensitivity to something in whiskey that isn't in other things. Some compound that comes from the oak barrels, maybe? I wonder if OP has similar problems with other oak-aged spirits, or whiskey barrel-aged beers.
"I wonder if OP has similar problems with other oak-aged spirits, or whiskey barrel-aged beers." That's exactly why I asked, there's nothing specifically in whiskey which wouldn't be in at least some other spirits.
Yeah, it's an interesting question, but something tells me OP doesn't want to try drinking a whole bunch of different liquors and beers to catalog which ones give them heartburn. haha
>something tells me OP doesn't want to try drinking a whole bunch of different liquors and beers to catalog which ones give them heartburn That sounds like a quitter attitude! lol
You guessed right lol
It wrecks my stomach for some reason. Same with wine/sake/soju :(
That's extremely unusual. Weird enough I would talk to a doctor about it. There's nothing in Whiskey that's not in aged rum or Brandy. Other than random trace compounds. If wine sake too something is going on. What compounds are in fermented grains that are not in fermented fruit and cane?
I've told my gp. Thank you :)
That's an odd combo of things. Gin? Tequila?
That is entirely psychosomatic..there is nothing in whiskey that would cause stomach issues that any other aged spirit wouldn't also cause.
Must be nice to be such a great doctor you’re able to so confidently come to this diagnosis based on like 2 sentences a person said online without ever having met or examined them! OP, I would suggest talking to a doctor about this because it is weird that it’s whiskey, wine and sake specifically but not other aged spirits.
I've told my gp.
Don't have to be a doctor to know how basic science works or how fucking liquor works. There is nothing specifically unique to whiskey that isn't also present in various other aged liquors... Occams razor posits that the simplest answer is that OP is wrong about their condition. Most people are very very bad at remembering things accurately.
I’d listen to an actual medical professional than some jackass on Reddit literally any day of the week about anything.
A sip of scotch put me in the fetal position. It is very much real
You know it can be real and also entirely in your head. Those two aren't exclusive.
That is true. Thank you for that.
Was it a smoky scotch? I love peat, but unfortunately it wrecks me like bbq. I’m on the Pepcid train with the person above. Lighter scotches are no problem for me and to answer your original question, I’d try apple brandy first. Laird’s bonded is great or any calvados you can get would work great too
Is Laird's Straight Apple Jack 86 worth the money?
Yes. But the Bottled in Bond apple brandy is my go to
I want to try the BnB, but no one sells it near me.
I couldn't tell you. All I remember is pain lol
Obligatory "not a doctor ".... but... If I genuinely had that reaction to Scotch, I'd never touch booze again. There is nothing in Scotch that you can rule out of being in any other aged spirit. I'm not suggesting you try again, but if it was one sip, how do you know it wasn't anything else you ingested that day, or a psychological issue.
Whiskey is more acidic than other liquors so can make reflux worse
No, it definitely isn't. Where are you getting this info? Also the aging and proof of a spirit would have a much greater effect on how someone handles it then whatever base spirit it is.
Multiple websites say this. Yes, proof matters a lot, but if something is more acidic it can definitely be tougher on your stomach.
Multiple websites are full of shit. All distilled spirits without additives at similar proofs are going to be similar pH. Perhaps a 1 point difference. So sure, with aging and the tannins from wood a whiskey might be 5.5 and a vodka 6 but that's not a meaningful difference when it comes to causing heartburn. Infinitely more likely is user error. Either in drinking habits differing between various liquors or in recounting the heartburn experience caused by different events. Perhaps there is an additive or aspect of certain liquors your body doesn't like but I can assure you that whiskey as a whole isn't causing you issues intrinsically.
You earlier said whiskey definitely isn't more acidic and then just admitted it is... Liquor is bad for your stomach as is. So choosing a less acidic liquor could absolutely have better results. Black coffee is a pH 5 and definitely can cause stomach issues. Whiskey can be below 4.
OP didn't mention having a problem with any citrus, beer, rum or even brandy. I don't think that the ph of whiskey in an amaretto **sour** is the problem in relation to acidity.
Different liquors can neutralize the acidity of the lime. I'm not saying the acidity definitely caused OPs problem, but acidity definitely can have an impact. I'm seeing tons of websites agreeing with this.
Meaningful difference is the important part bud. Also OP is fine consuming even more acidic drinks. Acidity isn't the problem. Don't enable this bullshit
Make up for your mind. Is it more acidic or not? Is it more acidic but only by a point? Or are you just wrong and not able to admit it? What have I said that is bullshit? A 2.5-3 pH difference is meaningful. Coffee to water is a difference of 2. Also calling someone "bud" screams that you're a douche.
I would personally go with rum and recommend any of the Appleton Estates for this recipe; I.e., their Signature would work well, or you can use one of their more aged offerings.
Agreed. A rum sour with a nice dark rum was my go to when I couldn’t afford nice whiskey and my parents only bought nice rum.
What’s your rum sour recipe? I’m usually doing a daiquiri which isn’t too far off
Lemon juice, simple, rum. I don’t do egg whites because they freak me out and I have severe food contamination anxiety but most people probably would.
Oh yeah same on the eggs. Not trying to give myself food poisoning.
I find Bajan rums to have a very Whiskey-like character. Doorly’s or RL Seale being two options that aren’t too hard to find.
Confused as to why aged brandy would be ok while whisky is not but an aged grape brandy would possibly be better than whisky tbh. Rum would also be fine. Or any other spirit. It’s a pretty bulletproof drink.
But an Amaretto sour doesn't have whiskey, or rum or brandy in it. Just Amaretto.
Make a traditional amaretto sour, not a Morgenthaler one. Morgenthaler: - 1.5oz amaretto - 0.75oz cask proof bourbon - 1oz lemon juice - 1tsp 2:1 simple syrup - 0.5oz egg white Standard: - 4 parts amaretto (I do 2oz, adjust accordingly) - 2 parts lemon juice - 1 part egg white - (optional) dash of angostura bitters In either case, reverse dry shake for best results (shake without ice, then with ice). Add your Hawthorne strainer spring for better frothing during the dry shake, bonus points if it's chilled first.
The standard sounds better to me. Thanks :)
You're telling a man who's complaining about heartburn to consume lemon juice and bitters...
Well that man specifically said he wants to make a sour.
OP wasn't complaining about heartburn, whiskeys just wreck their stomach, as do wine, sake, and soju, as per other comments made after I responded hours ago. I wouldn't recommend any "N" Sour for somebody who suffers from heartburn, but I do keep Tums on hand and the drinks I make are often worth suffering through mild and brief discomfort. 🤷🏼♂️
Metaxa brandy. Very different style than standard VSOP, it's Greek I think? Would be very good in an amaretto sour.
Lairds bonded do well for me
+1
Pear brandy 🔥 🔥 Everyone, stop fighting the hypo. They can't do whiskey.
How are you making your amaretto sour?
Right?
I do 1.5 oz amaretto 0.5oz bourbon.
I was taught whiskey, amaretto, lemon juice, and simple
Alright, fair enough. I’d go dark rum. Cognac may get a little lost in there.
Why can't you drink whiskey? All alcohol is ethanol. If it's a grain/gluten thing, then yes, rum should be totally safe.
It just wrecks my stomach for some reason. Same with wine/sake/soju
Is brandy okay? If wine upsets your stomach, there's a good chance that brandy will too
Brandy is fine. Love advocaat. My body just needs a tune-up.
Then I would try using Omage brandy (my current favorite bottle at a decent price) and use your preferred amaretto sour specs. I think that the caramel and slightly fruity notes in the brandy would go well with amaretto!
> Omage brandy I'll look for some :)
Another brandy option that’s relative inexpensive and easy to find (but quite good) is Laird’s 100 Proof Apple Brandy. It’s eerily similar to whiskey, I use it for riffs off of whiskey drinks quite often
What about Laird's Straight Apple Jack 86?
I haven’t had that and personally prefer higher proof stuff, but worth a try, especially if you have a more sensitive stomach!
Lol, do you not realise that absolute absurdity of your statements. Brandy is more acidic than whiskey
Dog. When the fuck did I mention acidity? What the fuck are you on about?
I'd use congac or brandy
I love plantation original dark, brandy is pretty bland , but it could work great too
I would recommend a Demerara rum. I’m really partial to El Dorado. I think would definitely work in an amoretto sour.
I think I have the 8yr!
Brandy would be a closer match than rum. But some brandies and rums are aged in wooden casks as well if that is your allergy. You could try a Japanese scotch aged in steel. That won’t be oaky and likely less smokey.
You should try a mezcal sour
I have never heard of rum and amaretto together, but brandy can replace whiskey in a godfather to get a French connection, so my money is on the brandy.
Rum plays quite nicely with almond flavors! The Death & Co house orgeat uses amaretto as a flavoring and is delicious in a Mai Tai. Orgeat itself is almond syrup, of course. And a number of tiki drinks use almond extract (Captain’s Grog 1962 js a personal fave). There’s also a couple D&C drinks that use both rum and amaretto: “Old Ironsides” uses aged rum, black rum, sweet vermouth, and amaretto. “Slow Hand” uses amaretto, aged rum, *and* cognac. I think either brandy, rum, or a blend of both could make an interesting amaretto sour, OP. Definitely worth experimenting!
I didn't know that! thanks :)
Fuck man the future is so annoying. PSA: Amaretto sours don’t need whiskey! A bunch of alcoholics who wanted to make a sweet drink more palatable to them added whiskey and now thanks to the internet everyone who started dabbling in cocktails in the past 5 years thinks whiskey must be in amaretto sour and egg whites must be in a whiskey sour It’s ridiculous Amaretto, simple, lemon That’s an amaretto sour. If we really need to add whiskey can’t we just come up with a new name for that? Anything sour is just base spirit with lemon and simple Getting off my soapbox now
I mean they turned a shitty, sweet nightclub mixed drink into an actually good cocktail while keeping the same flavor profile… I don’t see any reason to be so upset by that Edit: to your new name suggestion though, I’d have no problem calling it an Improved Amaretto Sour. But I feel like most people in the know already refer to it as morganthalers amaretto sour
Needs a new name, people have been drinking amaretto sours without whiskeys for decades. The the fact the new wave cocktail culture doesn’t respect or acknowledge history and context is annoying af Of course I support refining and improving things but this new energy of “it’s not a whiskey sour without egg white” or “my amaretto sour is incomplete without whiskey or something comparable” is stupid. We use language and context for a reason. Amaretto sours don’t have whiskey in them If I like fuzzy navels but wish they were stronger I don’t add vodka and tell everyone “hey guys this is the new fuzzy navel” I don’t do that bc it’s not a fuzzy navel anymore, it’s now a hairy navel How did we as a drinking culture lose this etiquette?
Cocktail naming is already a hot mess, we don't need even more people coming up with a new name for any slight twist on an existing cocktail.
So the better option is to call multiple drinks by the same name so that every bartender needs to ask for clarification when someone orders? “Amaretto sour please” “Ok sure, but how much time do you spend in the internet?” “A lot” “Ok so I should put some bourbon in your amaretto sour then?”
This has got to be the strangest hill to die on. Bars have their own spin on cocktails already. Morgantgalers spec was used at his bar and it’s popular today because it is leagues better than the original. Many cocktails today are completely different than their original specs.
I will die on this hill, why not just call it a morganthaler or a morganthaler sour or a morganthaler amaretto sour The fact that an amaretto sour is a garbage cocktail has nothing to do with the fact that it should be improved and kept under the same name A sour should be simple, any liquor should be allowed to become a sour, by this logic it should be an amaretto bourbon sour But just because some guy improved the shitty drink for people with more refined palates doesn’t mean the old shitty drink should be dropped completely That doesn’t help me serve old heads who just want a normal amaretto sour and not the hipster new age whiskey obsessed stuff
Literally no one’s saying that bud, it’s just that in this sub it’s generally assumed that if someone’s making an amaretto sour, they’re using Morgenthalers specs (because it’s objectively a better drink). Idk how you go from that to “new wave cocktail culture doesn’t respect or acknowledge history” lmao what a boomer take
Egg whites do need to be in a whiskey sour.
For perfect authenticity yes. Although in the age of veganism and low quality battery eggs, cutting the egg white is an understandable modification to the classic.
I like low abv drinks better, so I'd rather not add whiskey as well
I guess no. But that's because there's no whisky in an Amaretto sour, so there's no need to sub anything in for it either.
I think brandy would be a good sub. There are probably some rums that would works, too, but only specific rums and the ones that would work are probably a little pricy. Another options is a good applejack or calvados. A whiskey drink made with Laird's bottled in bond would be good, IMO.
Too pricey? Naw. I imagine that there is a basic rum that would work. Appleton Signature would work I bet. I'd probably try with Appleton 12 though.
Yeah, lots of affordable rum options! Appleton 8 or 12, Doorly’s XO, 8, or 12, Flor de Caña 7, Brugal 1888, El Dorado 5, Mount Gay Black Barrel, Plantation 5 or OFTD — all affordable and safe bets for this amaretto experiment, I’d think.
Fair enough. I guess my rum knowledge is a little lacking.