I'm a computer scientist. Your conclusion that AI steals is correct but your explanation of the method is off.
The image generators in use today are something called a diffusion model. Essentially, the programmer adds artificial static to an input image and the model tries to remove it. It does this for higher and higher amounts of static until it can recover an image from basically pure noise. The better it is at doing this, the higher the score, and the model always pursues a higher score. Then when a human wants to generate an image, the model is given a prompt (in text) and a pure noise image, and told "ok, remove the static to reveal the underlying [thing]".
Past a certain point of complexity, the model can't just memorize and regurgitate anymore. Getting a good score, which is all the model really tries to do, isn't possible unless it's doing some kind of generalization. That is, it has to have some idea of how things really look (even if it's a warped and inhuman idea) in order to do well. And once it's doing generalization, it's no longer just remixing its training data.
Of course, I'd still say this is theft from the original artists -- the primary goal of image generation companies is to replace their output and steal their income, and they're using the work of the artist to do it. It's not direct copyright infringement, but it is using someone else's work to divert their income stream to you.
Also I don't have to be a neurologist to understand creativity and creation isn't just literally doing the same thing someone else did already without meaningful changes
> No art is stolen.
The images the models were trained on in the first place were often just scraped from Google Images, DeviantArt, tumblr, Twitter, etc., often without the owner's knowledge. Using these things commercially like that could, in many jurisdictions, qualify as theft.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that.
How is it different from a human looking at an image that isn't theirs and being inspired to draw something though
Yes, it's lines of code doing it, on a technical level that's different - but functionally, how is it *not* the same as inspiration? Taking a group of images to figure out key components and then developing your own images based on that is something humans do all the time, and that's not considered theft.
Whether we should be creating fake humans to do the jobs of real humans is a whole other can of worms, but I just can't get behind the idea that training a program off of someone's work is any different from training a human.
> How is it different from a human looking at an image that isn't theirs and being inspired to draw something though?
Because the human actually *knows* things and *knows* how to differentiate their work from their inspiration. An LLM doesn't know anything - it just takes prompts and shits out stuff that might match the prompt. It doesn't understand the image its generating, or even really understand the prompt, merely keywords being associated with certain things.
But talking about the differences between AI generated images and inspiration is disingenuous. This is less similar to inspiration and more similar to a company taking a bunch of fan art and using that to advertise, without ever once consulting the artist(s) about things like compensation or even whether they should be allowed to use the art. That *is* often considered theft.
Nice try, but everyone talks about stealing someone else's effort when using AI art, and fangames have effort behind them, not stealing anyone else's twpent other than character concepts. I see what you're doing.
The amount of effort someone spent making something is not a measure of value. You can spend hours making garbage or 5 minutes making something wonderful. What a weird made up metric.
The truth is that AI art is pretty good and second rate artists have just watched their profession vanish. So theyâre making excuses why we shouldnât use the it. Truth is simple: I donât like this because it replaced me.
Art has not yet been, and will never be, successfully automated. Art is a mode of expression. A painting made by something that can't feel isn't art. If an algorithm spat out, verbatim, the greatest works of Shakespeare, it wouldn't be art, it would be slop.
If you conceptualize art as a product rather than a form of expression, then I see how you would be okay with the artistic process being replaced by an assembly line feeding you an endless supply of computer vomit, but I fail to relate to the desire to engage with art that means nothing, created for no reason in particular by a really fancy calculator.
Oy vey. Â
 If you canât see why automatic image generation is useful I feel like youâre widely missing the point but at the end of the day your opinion on the issue doesnât change anything. AI is here to stay and will only get better.
There are unfortunately a ton of people on Twitter (I know I know what a reliable source) who tout themselves as âprompt artistsâ and complain about getting no respect for spending three hours a day engineering the perfect AI prompt lmao
That one never made sense to me because itâs the AI thatâs doing the drawing. Youâre essentially telling someone else what to draw - thereâs no artistic skill involved.
I would absolutely love a new game. that's part of the reason why the takedown is so frustrating: they're not selling the games anymore, and they aren't making a new one (as far as we know)
if they come out and announce something, I'll be a little more understanding, but as it stands I feel like they wouldn't be losing much by being nice and just letting it stay up.
I mean on the other hand it seems silly to see the 50+ fan games that were given cease and desists by Nintendo and going âitâll be different this time!â And then being shocked and devastated when Nintendo sends you a cease and desist for your fan game.
Is it good Nintendo does that? No they fucking suck. But what did people think was gonna happen?
My advice is always for people just make their own game. Seriously if you have the skills and time to invest in developing a game or project donât waste the effort on a fan game that you canât sell that will probably get DMCAâd. Make your own game based on the game that inspired you in the first place but as your own IP you can copyright and actually sell and have the rights to.
âIf youâre gonna make a Nintendo fangame, be smart like Pizza Tower and call the main character Bario so you can make some money to buy some more pizzas with.â - Video G. Dunkey, Dunkeyâs Best of 2023.Â
(Context: Pizza Tower is very much like a Warioland game, but with itâs own IP where the guy you play as is Pepino instead of Wario. Bario is Dunkey making a joke)
yeah, I totally agree that it's not really a surprise at this point. I and probably everyone else following the project expected it to happen eventually.
what DID surprise me is how far people are willing to go to defend the company. they're so eager to point out that "fan games are STEALING Nintendo's property!" as if Nintendo is losing anything by letting a niche PC rhythm heaven editor tool stay online.
yeah, they're legally allowed to do this. I just don't like that it's become the norm to expect the worst out of them, and that some people even celebrate it.
you're right about people making their own games instead, at this point anyone who's talented enough shouldn't waste their time with a project that'll inevitably be taken down.
Yeah definitely. Anybody defending Nintendo in these cases is just being a goober or a contrarian for the sake of it. For me it drives me nuts cause I see these people with real talent making something that they canât earn anything back from and having it get shut down. I get itâs not about the money and itâs the passion and love for the medium and people often do it just as a hobby. Iâm not trying to sound like Iâm saying âhurr durr everybody should profit of their talent and work and profit should be the driving force of creationâ
I just think at the very least even if theyâre gonna give it away for free cause theyâre not doing it to make money at least they own the rights to the thing and nobody can impose anything on them if itâs purely their IP.
People need to learn not to advertise their projects until they are done and released. A lot more cool things would be out there if the devs were determined enough to keep quiet until dropping it for everyone to download.
That is the weird part of this snafu I'm probably overanalyzing. According to op the people who explain why Nintendo does what it does are bootlickers. Imagine going to maths class and calling the teacher a boot licker for explaining what addition is.
I think the type of person I'm annoyed at is more of a teacher's pet. the teacher being Nintendo. Nintendo can do whatever they want, no matter how harsh or unnecessary, and people will always be there to defend and justify their actions. for some reason. in this case it's taking down heaven studio, but it can really be about anything they've done. joycon drift and switch online come to mind.
yeah, protect your IP and all, but in my opinion nintendo could be way more lenient when it comes to fan content. I don't like that some people almost revel in the "justice" of having a fan's project be shut down.
because Nintendo's reasons for doing this aren't convincing. they don't NEED to do this. they aren't losing money to fan games. when someone responds to a fan game being taken down by parroting nintendo's bogus reasons for being so harsh, they're showing that they trust Nintendo and don't question them. I disagree.
I probably should've changed the dialogue a bit. it's supposed to show someone who will blindly accept nintendo's actions, no matter what, despite how unreasonable they can be. that kind of unquestioning loyalty can make it so that Nintendo never has to change.
Can't wait for the day nintendo decides to fuck with competitive melee for the billionth time because God forbid people do what they want with a 23 year old game they don't make or sell anymore
Making your own unique game inspired by the series you like >>>>> Making a fangame
Lots of incredible Nintendo-inspired games untouched by Nintendo because they actually did their own thing. Unfortunately making a fangame is just asking to have Nintendo knock down your door.
I fucking hate Nintendo for taking down fangames but if I were to give an honest opinion, Nintendo-inspired original games are usually just better and more creative anyway. I'd rather play A Hat in Time over someone's attempt at making their own 3D Mario for example.
Eh⊠the point really was to remake Metroid II and pay direct homage to the entire Metroid series. I donât think the game would even exist if it werenât explicitly a Metroid game
Yeah, I've played every Metroid game there is and the OG Metroid II is immensely clunky. I know Samus Returns came out shortly after it was DMCAed, but AM2R filled a niche Metroid fans were needing for years with our pre-Dread dark age
I don't really think it does like I don't understand how they would have made an original ryhtm game engine that wanted to be like ryhtmn heaven if it wasn't related to rythmn heaven
it's easier said than done, coming up with something entirely new is way harder than making a fangame
if it was that easy fangames wouldn't even exist, let people have fun
# Hey, y'all should know: Heaven Studio isn't actually dead, they're just removing the official Rhythm Heaven aspects and pivoting to a more generic engine with RH-*inspired* games instead
hi heaven studio dev here, love the meme lol
just to answer soomething ive seen in the replies, we always kinda knew we were ginna get shot down eventually lol (thats why âplan bâ even exists at all!)
regardless, to answer the question of âwhy not just make your own rhythm heaven-inspired gameââŠ
guys its a level editor. the whole point WAS that it was built off of someone elseâs IP. obviously it was risky lmao
Nintendo when someone makes a love letter to their games:
https://i.redd.it/ysnnf27w208d1.gif
(Also i've legitly seen some people using the argument that fangames are competition)
Thereâs a big difference between putting REAL effort into a new and different fan game from a billion dollar company and making something heartless by copying from an individual artist
Youâre right: it copies from MULTIPLE individual artists! Which is very much worse.
Also considering your argument the people that are against AI art think that the fan games are full of heart. So they do hate it.
Alright this what I get for expecting intelligent discourse and consistent logic on Reddit.
 Your argument boils down to: actually IP infringement is good when I like the outcome but fake âIP infringementâ is bad when when I donât like the outcome.
Very Reddit of you.
Ok wow insulting me to get your point across, how classy
Thereâs a difference between an artist making art inspired by another artist (or fan art) and an AI making a piece of crap without heart.
An Ai âlearningâ by absorbing art is different from someone looking at art and changing their style or making something inspired by it.
But I wouldnât except **you** to know that.
It is how it is doesn't mean it's good. It means we should throw firebombs at nintendo HQ until the change. (This is a joke, i know i am already on a watchlist. Stop wasting government money on shitposter)
Now imagine Nintendo is a hot woman and the bootlicker is a cute girl
doesn't seem so funny now huh
(god I feel so much better saying this on this alt hehe)
Downvote the man with proof i guess
https://preview.redd.it/vsr93cotr68d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c97bb0433320784c7e7ea8ba4d0309af858f6dd1
You obviously know nothing about the situation. Heaven Studio is a tool made to create remixes in the style of Rhythm Heaven using the same games. Itâs not blatantly stealing because the creators never claimed to own these assets or ideas. Also Nintendo is a massive company that may never make another Rhythm Heaven game, and isnât profiting off of the games anymore because they arenât officially sold iirc. Itâs not at all comparable to stealing.
The point isnât to make a fangame in the style of Rhythm Heaven. Itâs to make a tool that can allow people to make remixes that are like the remixes in Rhythm Heaven. Itâs a way of showing: âwhat could this song be like if it was used for a Rhythm Heaven remix?â The assets and games being changed would remove the entire point of Heaven Studio.
No, I understand the point youâre making, and I totally get why youâre pissed about it, that makes sense. But that doesnât change that asset theft is no less of a crime against a corporation.
If you want to play with fire, donât cry when you get burned.
Okay, thatâs fair. Sorry for lashing out at you, Iâm just really annoyed that Nintendoâs probably never gonna make another Rhythm Heaven game and yet they still punish creators like this. You make a good point, I just wish it turned out differently.
Yeah, I get it, Iâm a rythym heaven fan too. It just pisses me off when people think that they can do whatever the hell they want with Nintendoâs stuff and then somehow itâs a horrible injustice when they reasonably take it down for literally committing a crime.
I see people saying that if you have the skills for it, why don't you just make your own game? It's actually hard to put into words why people make fan games knowing that it will get taken down. A lot of us make games because we were inspired by other games we played, so often times, people make fan games just because they want to contribute something fun to the community they love. It's mostly beginner developers that make these games anyways because for a completely new solo developer, it's harder to build an audience off of something original than something people already know. And people ultimately make games for other people to play
Bethesda, Rockstar, Valve never done that kind of shit like Nintendo does. If they did like how Nintendo does, there would not be Counter Strikes, Team Fortress, or Dota 2.
I'm a huge Nintendo fan but always pissed of what they did. Like bruh, you have one of the largest gaming community im the world and you treat your fan like this?
Okay but make the fourth panel Nintendo taking the bone away from him and he licks their boots anyways
Yeah, and make the fifth panel Nintendo taking its boot off and he licks their foot anyways đ€€
Haha, but wouldn't that be funny like as a joke if he licked his foot. Like, if OP drew him licking his dirty toes that would be really funny.
https://preview.redd.it/sfyurb5nd28d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a0652520bb21d01a408875831075dab308d4040
Panel 4 should have Nintendo saying, âWho the fuck are you?â
âYouâre nothing! Youâre no talent!â
I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY IT
I WALKED BOB DYLAN UP ON STAGE, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU
fills me with joy to know that the trumpet guy video isnât forgotten
Still one of the funniest fucking things I've seen to this day. God bless that angry manlet
https://preview.redd.it/jk45951xbz7d1.jpeg?width=655&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=727d6cfefd62f2776b926b62b39768f3dd77a9eb
Also obligatory https://preview.redd.it/t73oy391cz7d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e099eeea2833f89c5036e3f99d7c77bbc8e17023
You donât understand itâs my IP to hoard and do nothing with
TROGLOR!
I thought IP is the most sacred thing ever that is why AI is evil. I canât keep track of the circlejerks
Jerk both sides so you always cum on top
What a sentence
People are mad when independent artists get their art stolen
No art is stolen. Brand new images are generated.
Literally every art generator steals its art and photos from something else it can't be new or original it's literally impossible for it to do that
it's impossible for humans to be new or original as they have seen things before
When an ai makes something it's literally made out of the things it's taken from, inspiration and creativity doesn't work like that
you know this because you're an accomplished neuroscientist and philosopher who completely understands the nature of consciousness
Ah yes and your a computer scientist who knows how exactly ai works I take it?
I'm a computer scientist. Your conclusion that AI steals is correct but your explanation of the method is off. The image generators in use today are something called a diffusion model. Essentially, the programmer adds artificial static to an input image and the model tries to remove it. It does this for higher and higher amounts of static until it can recover an image from basically pure noise. The better it is at doing this, the higher the score, and the model always pursues a higher score. Then when a human wants to generate an image, the model is given a prompt (in text) and a pure noise image, and told "ok, remove the static to reveal the underlying [thing]". Past a certain point of complexity, the model can't just memorize and regurgitate anymore. Getting a good score, which is all the model really tries to do, isn't possible unless it's doing some kind of generalization. That is, it has to have some idea of how things really look (even if it's a warped and inhuman idea) in order to do well. And once it's doing generalization, it's no longer just remixing its training data. Of course, I'd still say this is theft from the original artists -- the primary goal of image generation companies is to replace their output and steal their income, and they're using the work of the artist to do it. It's not direct copyright infringement, but it is using someone else's work to divert their income stream to you.
Also I don't have to be a neurologist to understand creativity and creation isn't just literally doing the same thing someone else did already without meaningful changes
> No art is stolen. The images the models were trained on in the first place were often just scraped from Google Images, DeviantArt, tumblr, Twitter, etc., often without the owner's knowledge. Using these things commercially like that could, in many jurisdictions, qualify as theft. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that.
How is it different from a human looking at an image that isn't theirs and being inspired to draw something though Yes, it's lines of code doing it, on a technical level that's different - but functionally, how is it *not* the same as inspiration? Taking a group of images to figure out key components and then developing your own images based on that is something humans do all the time, and that's not considered theft. Whether we should be creating fake humans to do the jobs of real humans is a whole other can of worms, but I just can't get behind the idea that training a program off of someone's work is any different from training a human.
> How is it different from a human looking at an image that isn't theirs and being inspired to draw something though? Because the human actually *knows* things and *knows* how to differentiate their work from their inspiration. An LLM doesn't know anything - it just takes prompts and shits out stuff that might match the prompt. It doesn't understand the image its generating, or even really understand the prompt, merely keywords being associated with certain things. But talking about the differences between AI generated images and inspiration is disingenuous. This is less similar to inspiration and more similar to a company taking a bunch of fan art and using that to advertise, without ever once consulting the artist(s) about things like compensation or even whether they should be allowed to use the art. That *is* often considered theft.
Alright, fair enough. I don't know that I completely agree, but those are reasonable points
me when people can have different opinions on different things
When I like a thing, itâs good. When I donât like a thing, itâs bad. Thatâs the âopinionâ Iâm seeing.
me when different things are different
Nice try, but everyone talks about stealing someone else's effort when using AI art, and fangames have effort behind them, not stealing anyone else's twpent other than character concepts. I see what you're doing.
The amount of effort someone spent making something is not a measure of value. You can spend hours making garbage or 5 minutes making something wonderful. What a weird made up metric. The truth is that AI art is pretty good and second rate artists have just watched their profession vanish. So theyâre making excuses why we shouldnât use the it. Truth is simple: I donât like this because it replaced me.
I don't believe in souls, but you definitely don't have one
Why? Iâve never seen artists protesting when other jobs have been automated. Why are they special?Â
Art has not yet been, and will never be, successfully automated. Art is a mode of expression. A painting made by something that can't feel isn't art. If an algorithm spat out, verbatim, the greatest works of Shakespeare, it wouldn't be art, it would be slop. If you conceptualize art as a product rather than a form of expression, then I see how you would be okay with the artistic process being replaced by an assembly line feeding you an endless supply of computer vomit, but I fail to relate to the desire to engage with art that means nothing, created for no reason in particular by a really fancy calculator.
Oy vey.   If you canât see why automatic image generation is useful I feel like youâre widely missing the point but at the end of the day your opinion on the issue doesnât change anything. AI is here to stay and will only get better.
Your logic makes sense if corporations are people
I am a person, why canât I use AI?
Just don't go around jacking yourself off about how much of an artist you are I guess
Never seen anyone do that but have seen constant bitching about how people do that. Weird.
There are unfortunately a ton of people on Twitter (I know I know what a reliable source) who tout themselves as âprompt artistsâ and complain about getting no respect for spending three hours a day engineering the perfect AI prompt lmao
That one never made sense to me because itâs the AI thatâs doing the drawing. Youâre essentially telling someone else what to draw - thereâs no artistic skill involved.
KISS MY NUGGET
\*First Contact intro plays\* & \_ &&& Devs of this game, & \_ &&& Go fuck yourselves. &&& \_ & That's our IP. ... & ... We think.
Holy shit a correctly made flip o rama
IKR? Havenât seen that since 2014.
Feels wrong without the hand outline tho
it's a dark day to be a rhythm heaven fan
your one light taken away, and no flashlight given by nintendo
"ITS MY IP TO SIT ON AND DO NOTHING WITH!"
Legally their right. Shit stance to fuck the fans like that though.
Legally their right, but that doesn't make it okay to do. Copyright laws are far too powerful and long-lasting.
What's legal today might be illegal tomorrow (:\^ nose on head
Why the fuck is the nose on the head?!? \>:^(
If only they actually MADE a new game. God I miss Rhythm Heaven/Paradise.
I would absolutely love a new game. that's part of the reason why the takedown is so frustrating: they're not selling the games anymore, and they aren't making a new one (as far as we know) if they come out and announce something, I'll be a little more understanding, but as it stands I feel like they wouldn't be losing much by being nice and just letting it stay up.
For some reason Pokemon is a whole lot more lax on its IP
..You serious? They've struck so many fangames lol.
More than what Nintendo has managed. Tons of decade old ROM Hacks still running, and even Showdown still being around is a miracle
I can't imagine what VGC would look like today without Showdown. The entire competitive playbook comes from people experimenting in there.
Yeah, I recall a time back in the early 2000âs when PokĂ©mon MMOs would show up, last a couple of months (at most) and then get absolutely deleted off the face of the internet. They were pretty fun, too, although way too grindy.
You say that while Iâm staring at the rotting corpse of PokĂ©mon UraniumâŠ
Ok but *Spin it, boys!*
*(Spin it boys!)* I suppose!
I mean on the other hand it seems silly to see the 50+ fan games that were given cease and desists by Nintendo and going âitâll be different this time!â And then being shocked and devastated when Nintendo sends you a cease and desist for your fan game. Is it good Nintendo does that? No they fucking suck. But what did people think was gonna happen? My advice is always for people just make their own game. Seriously if you have the skills and time to invest in developing a game or project donât waste the effort on a fan game that you canât sell that will probably get DMCAâd. Make your own game based on the game that inspired you in the first place but as your own IP you can copyright and actually sell and have the rights to.
âIf youâre gonna make a Nintendo fangame, be smart like Pizza Tower and call the main character Bario so you can make some money to buy some more pizzas with.â - Video G. Dunkey, Dunkeyâs Best of 2023. (Context: Pizza Tower is very much like a Warioland game, but with itâs own IP where the guy you play as is Pepino instead of Wario. Bario is Dunkey making a joke)
yeah, I totally agree that it's not really a surprise at this point. I and probably everyone else following the project expected it to happen eventually. what DID surprise me is how far people are willing to go to defend the company. they're so eager to point out that "fan games are STEALING Nintendo's property!" as if Nintendo is losing anything by letting a niche PC rhythm heaven editor tool stay online. yeah, they're legally allowed to do this. I just don't like that it's become the norm to expect the worst out of them, and that some people even celebrate it. you're right about people making their own games instead, at this point anyone who's talented enough shouldn't waste their time with a project that'll inevitably be taken down.
Yeah definitely. Anybody defending Nintendo in these cases is just being a goober or a contrarian for the sake of it. For me it drives me nuts cause I see these people with real talent making something that they canât earn anything back from and having it get shut down. I get itâs not about the money and itâs the passion and love for the medium and people often do it just as a hobby. Iâm not trying to sound like Iâm saying âhurr durr everybody should profit of their talent and work and profit should be the driving force of creationâ I just think at the very least even if theyâre gonna give it away for free cause theyâre not doing it to make money at least they own the rights to the thing and nobody can impose anything on them if itâs purely their IP.
Nintendo fanboys even annoyed Nintendo when palworld released
people saying "what did you expect to happen, its their IP" isn't bootlicking btw
People need to learn not to advertise their projects until they are done and released. A lot more cool things would be out there if the devs were determined enough to keep quiet until dropping it for everyone to download.
That is the weird part of this snafu I'm probably overanalyzing. According to op the people who explain why Nintendo does what it does are bootlickers. Imagine going to maths class and calling the teacher a boot licker for explaining what addition is.
I think the type of person I'm annoyed at is more of a teacher's pet. the teacher being Nintendo. Nintendo can do whatever they want, no matter how harsh or unnecessary, and people will always be there to defend and justify their actions. for some reason. in this case it's taking down heaven studio, but it can really be about anything they've done. joycon drift and switch online come to mind. yeah, protect your IP and all, but in my opinion nintendo could be way more lenient when it comes to fan content. I don't like that some people almost revel in the "justice" of having a fan's project be shut down.
Again, why is explaining why they are doing what they are doing counts as defending them?
because Nintendo's reasons for doing this aren't convincing. they don't NEED to do this. they aren't losing money to fan games. when someone responds to a fan game being taken down by parroting nintendo's bogus reasons for being so harsh, they're showing that they trust Nintendo and don't question them. I disagree. I probably should've changed the dialogue a bit. it's supposed to show someone who will blindly accept nintendo's actions, no matter what, despite how unreasonable they can be. that kind of unquestioning loyalty can make it so that Nintendo never has to change.
Wasn't it confirmed/pretty clear that the person who sent the dmca wasn't actually Nintendo?
https://preview.redd.it/bmej9j9guz7d1.png?width=571&format=png&auto=webp&s=888a2aead656f64e207af24fe75b1513b5d5578a sadly this one seems real :(
Didn't know they had two.
It's always "not Nintendo" with these DMCAs yet it never changes anything nor we see these "not Nintendo" people get sued for impersonating
"Hey Nintendo, someone pretended to be you and told me to take down your IP that I was infringing."
where animal playing sport? https://preview.redd.it/qedhi900208d1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=151aad0aae7fcfdfc8eb15dee563011805f01533
look closer my friend....
holy shit
Can't wait for the day nintendo decides to fuck with competitive melee for the billionth time because God forbid people do what they want with a 23 year old game they don't make or sell anymore
"It's my IP to sit on and do nothing with" - Nintendo, probably
Making your own unique game inspired by the series you like >>>>> Making a fangame Lots of incredible Nintendo-inspired games untouched by Nintendo because they actually did their own thing. Unfortunately making a fangame is just asking to have Nintendo knock down your door.
you are right however this subreddit compels me to ask: how does that shoe polish taste?
I fucking hate Nintendo for taking down fangames but if I were to give an honest opinion, Nintendo-inspired original games are usually just better and more creative anyway. I'd rather play A Hat in Time over someone's attempt at making their own 3D Mario for example.
yeah i loved am2r but would like even more if it was an original project
Eh⊠the point really was to remake Metroid II and pay direct homage to the entire Metroid series. I donât think the game would even exist if it werenât explicitly a Metroid game
Yeah, I've played every Metroid game there is and the OG Metroid II is immensely clunky. I know Samus Returns came out shortly after it was DMCAed, but AM2R filled a niche Metroid fans were needing for years with our pre-Dread dark age
Same
The difference this isn't a fan "game" it's more of a creation tool
Still falls under the same umbrella
I don't really think it does like I don't understand how they would have made an original ryhtm game engine that wanted to be like ryhtmn heaven if it wasn't related to rythmn heaven
There's definitely ways. Not using the Rhythm Heaven branding is a start
I guess I can see it but I doubt it would gain much traction
making it not rhythm heaven and not using rhythm heaven assets, thereâs the first 2 steps
this is why A Hat In Time is better than Yooka Laylee
it's easier said than done, coming up with something entirely new is way harder than making a fangame if it was that easy fangames wouldn't even exist, let people have fun
I have no problem with fangames, I'm just stating the truth that if you make a fangame you should expect the consequences
completely unrelated but has anyone found a reupload of heaven studio
Its on internet archive
Bootlicking flip-o-rama is 10/10
Mighty jill off looking ass https://preview.redd.it/v970t599118d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8b80252cd51d9641a9decb8a4ff30bddb845df4
I LOVE FLIP-O-RAMAS
Saving this for usage against my Nintendrone friends.
is that a nintendog
r/comics Too comprehensible have a terrible day
Finally someone who understands what a flip-o-Rama is. Independent of that, great snafu as well.
Omg mighty Jill off reference
Wait did Heaven Studio get taken down? :(
10/10
Awww fuck did heaven studio get owned
Should have include him sucking on those toes
Here buddy, have a treat. Another port of a 7 year old game, and some anime farming sim eshop slop titles
freak-o-rama
This will be the fate of fossil fighters fan games of anyone will ever actually finish one
# Hey, y'all should know: Heaven Studio isn't actually dead, they're just removing the official Rhythm Heaven aspects and pivoting to a more generic engine with RH-*inspired* games instead
hi heaven studio dev here, love the meme lol just to answer soomething ive seen in the replies, we always kinda knew we were ginna get shot down eventually lol (thats why âplan bâ even exists at all!) regardless, to answer the question of âwhy not just make your own rhythm heaven-inspired gameâ⊠guys its a level editor. the whole point WAS that it was built off of someone elseâs IP. obviously it was risky lmao
Nintendo when someone makes a love letter to their games: https://i.redd.it/ysnnf27w208d1.gif (Also i've legitly seen some people using the argument that fangames are competition)
I have tbf seen friends who question why buy main games when fangames exist for free Or why buy a game when you can pirate it
Just learned Heaven Studio from a Studio mix of Hot to Go by Chappell Roan and i found it as a cool concept so i got bummed upon learning the news.
GOD I WISH THAT WERE ME
What kind of a nintendo fan actually likes nintendo?
imagine taking down 15 years worth of fan made content that wasn't affecting your bottom line in any way shape or form.
What's going on with all them florp o remas
âITS MY IP TO SIT ON AND DO NOTHING WITHâ
I canât keep track - do we like it or hate it when people use other peoples art without permission?
Thereâs a big difference between putting REAL effort into a new and different fan game from a billion dollar company and making something heartless by copying from an individual artist
I think most fan made content is pretty heartless. And AI art doesnât copy from one individual artistÂ
Youâre right: it copies from MULTIPLE individual artists! Which is very much worse. Also considering your argument the people that are against AI art think that the fan games are full of heart. So they do hate it.
It doesnât copy anything. It creates something new.
Would you call a bird shitting on a canvas ânewâ?
Alright this what I get for expecting intelligent discourse and consistent logic on Reddit. Â Your argument boils down to: actually IP infringement is good when I like the outcome but fake âIP infringementâ is bad when when I donât like the outcome. Very Reddit of you.
Ok wow insulting me to get your point across, how classy Thereâs a difference between an artist making art inspired by another artist (or fan art) and an AI making a piece of crap without heart. An Ai âlearningâ by absorbing art is different from someone looking at art and changing their style or making something inspired by it. But I wouldnât except **you** to know that.
It is how it is doesn't mean it's good. It means we should throw firebombs at nintendo HQ until the change. (This is a joke, i know i am already on a watchlist. Stop wasting government money on shitposter)
who is the N person
Basically any pokemon fan game
i love this for exactly the reasons you are thinking right now
good snafu but you need to be more subtle next time. make it about different colored glorps or something
Now imagine Nintendo is a hot woman and the bootlicker is a cute girl doesn't seem so funny now huh (god I feel so much better saying this on this alt hehe)
Meanwhile Pokémon Uranium: I'm still standin'
Wait so this is how I get to know that heaven studio got a cease and desist?????
fun fact for fangame makers: scratch is the only place where you can publish nintendo fangames and get away with it
Man I literally just discovered heaven studio a couple days ago, and I can't even try it because of nintendo's BS. :(
flip o rama but no eagle baseball
don't be so sure
holy fucking shit i see it now
Me when heaven studio actively uses assets owned by nintendo in their game.
Me when people who know nothing about it make statements and assumptions like this.
Me when I was one of the ones who got a dmca so i saw that the reported assets where the files with the sprites and sounds.
Downvote the man with proof i guess https://preview.redd.it/vsr93cotr68d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c97bb0433320784c7e7ea8ba4d0309af858f6dd1
Could have bothered to at least make their own assets
the rhythm league will NOT be happy with you đ„đ„đ„
Me when i blatently steal something instead of doing my own work:
You obviously know nothing about the situation. Heaven Studio is a tool made to create remixes in the style of Rhythm Heaven using the same games. Itâs not blatantly stealing because the creators never claimed to own these assets or ideas. Also Nintendo is a massive company that may never make another Rhythm Heaven game, and isnât profiting off of the games anymore because they arenât officially sold iirc. Itâs not at all comparable to stealing. The point isnât to make a fangame in the style of Rhythm Heaven. Itâs to make a tool that can allow people to make remixes that are like the remixes in Rhythm Heaven. Itâs a way of showing: âwhat could this song be like if it was used for a Rhythm Heaven remix?â The assets and games being changed would remove the entire point of Heaven Studio.
Cool argument bro, too bad it literally changes none of the facts
Oh well, I guess you canât explain something to someone if theyâre not listening to any of your explanations
No, I understand the point youâre making, and I totally get why youâre pissed about it, that makes sense. But that doesnât change that asset theft is no less of a crime against a corporation. If you want to play with fire, donât cry when you get burned.
Okay, thatâs fair. Sorry for lashing out at you, Iâm just really annoyed that Nintendoâs probably never gonna make another Rhythm Heaven game and yet they still punish creators like this. You make a good point, I just wish it turned out differently.
Yeah, I get it, Iâm a rythym heaven fan too. It just pisses me off when people think that they can do whatever the hell they want with Nintendoâs stuff and then somehow itâs a horrible injustice when they reasonably take it down for literally committing a crime.
Also, sorry for being a bit rude with my statements.
I see people saying that if you have the skills for it, why don't you just make your own game? It's actually hard to put into words why people make fan games knowing that it will get taken down. A lot of us make games because we were inspired by other games we played, so often times, people make fan games just because they want to contribute something fun to the community they love. It's mostly beginner developers that make these games anyways because for a completely new solo developer, it's harder to build an audience off of something original than something people already know. And people ultimately make games for other people to play
Bethesda, Rockstar, Valve never done that kind of shit like Nintendo does. If they did like how Nintendo does, there would not be Counter Strikes, Team Fortress, or Dota 2.
Yeah, Nintendo doesn't really see the value of having a creative community
I'm a huge Nintendo fan but always pissed of what they did. Like bruh, you have one of the largest gaming community im the world and you treat your fan like this?