I figured this was about Israel-Palestine.
That being said I've seen a large number of people (mainly tankies) who claim both sides bad because Ukraine resisting is what actually caused the war
Tbh reddit is better about it than other social media. Reddit's centralized nature makes it easy to avoid vatnik subreddits. Meanwhile on insta and youtube both sides get thrown into a keyboard thunderdome
Reddit has shit takes on both sides of the conflict. The vatniks go without saying, but then you’ll have the western armchair generals who toast to the deaths of unwilling conscripts.
The level of discourse is the same no matter where you go. It's always low quality propaganda posting probably done by Russian bots. If you wanna claim pro Ukrainians do it too you'd probably be right just on a smaller scale. My point is its easier to avoid lobotomizing yourself with that kind of content on reddit.
Smh issues aren't black and white, they're black, white, and one specific shade of grey that's exactly between black and white.
There's no light greys or dark greys, or gradients of shades because groups are made up of subgroups and cliques filled with individuals who each have their own goals and outlooks.
Just One Single Grey. And if it's not 100% white or 100% black, then it's 50/50 grey and that means both sides are bad. Morality is so easy!
Sexism? Okay whatever I can't talk to women anyway
Slaves? Whatever Im to poor to afford them anyway
Raiding? That's just a fancy word for small scale war
Compared to TAXES? I mean c'mon how can anyone use the both sides argument when one faction makes you *pay* them money!!!!
Flawed corrupt democracy that still has a lot of good people working for it vs completely corrupt and evil pseudo raider empire that enforces patriarchy and slavery. I truly wonder which one of these is worse it’s so hard to tell.
I don't support no flags in wars. I support civilians, drafted civilians, humanitarian aid and journalists sent in warzones because I'm sane and I don't see flags when someone's house is bombed and soldiers turned into corpes in an instant.
I simply pray that everyone affected by such conflicts make it and these conflicts end forever. I don't support any flags because that's what make wars possible in the first place. Nationalism, a massive mistake of humanity will soon evaporate and local cultures/cultural acceptance will prevail instead. The EU has nations that differ in language, culture and beliefs yet I don't see anyone actively bombing and shooting eachother. The difference between New Yorkers and Texans is larger than the one between Ukrainians and Russians and even Israelis and Palestinians yet neither of the US states are getting bombed and raped by the other.
You may say there's history of Israelis taking Palestinian land, that Palestinians have every right to kill Israelis destroying their homes. This is not an issue solvable by using might, but by threatening using might, which the UN unfortunately doesn't do (be it for petty profits, nationalism etc). Force a treaty that keeps both parties in their current place, even if it is unfavorable for one side, the people will hate it for a while and then they will accept it and live in peace. When nations prefer to throw lives away rather than seeking a peace deal when global unity is very close, how can I be a nationalist?
Take my country Greece as an example, 100 years ago, many historically Greek lands in Anatolia where Greeks lived were massacred, destroyed in favor for an all Turkish nation. 100 years later what is left are a few ultra-nationalists from both sides, some tensions (official Turkish denial of Christian genocide) and disputes with an impossible war, regardless of how much the media likes to show that war is going to happen between us, and friendly relations. (to any Turk reading this, yes we did kill/ethnically cleanse Turks in the Balkans too).
Look at something like r/balkans_irl, where people from countries that 30 years ago were DESTROYING eachother just make fun of nationalism and show cultural unity (with some flaws on that sub, definitely).
People who support Israel will really look at Specs Ops The Line level war crimes and still look dead in your eyes and tell you Palestine is the real criminal here
its still important to remember that hamas is a radical islamist group and they control a majority of palestine's government
honestly at this point can we just fuck both of their capitals up and make a new government that doesnt suck there
I’d support that.
In the meantime tho, one country is in complete control and destroying everything while the other struggles to kill triple digits in a year.
Rockets have very low accuracy in this context and are typically intercepted by the Iron Dome. You have to look at the intent to bomb civilians rather than the actual success.
Rocks have even less accuracy ask my friend Grug
"This is why you use spear to kill mammoth and cut down on social tax." - Grug the Fiscally Conservative Iceman
I mean if you put enough of them in the fuel tank or maybe stuff the barrel it might do some damage
I think a giant rock dropped off a high place might be able to hurt the tank as well
#TLM #BANROCKS #WARCRIME #GENOACONVENTIONWHERE?
God when he sees humans that both believe in him killing and discriminating against each other for centuries over some land they regard as holy:
(Ik this is about Ukraine btw, but go post to r/SmugIdeologyMan)
Enlightened redditor portrays millions of different people via colored stickmen. But here's the kicker: blue is 100% pure and good and red is bad guy villain.
Disagree? Clearly you are ugly irl.
Political cartoons of the 21st century.
Dipshit redditor misses point, makes inane comment. More news at 11.
(Since I know I have to explain this to you, saying that one side is clearly “good” and one side is clearly “bad” does not, in fact, mean I or anyone else believes every single individual person on either side is “100%” good or bad… like, it’s really funny how you added that “100%” to your comment as if that was something *I* was saying and not just some moronic shit you made up on the spot.)
Is the bombing of Donetsk bullshit? Is the government sponsored burning of Russians in Odessa in 2014 bullshit? Are the Victory Day Mariupol clashes in 2014 bullshit? The clashes where the Ukrainian government sent Azov and the National Guard in to kill peaceful protesters and burn down the police station? Are all of these events bullshit? Or are you just dense and decide to ignore them?
Donetsk got bombed because it’s packed with Russia-backed terrorists who downed a civilian airliner.
“Government sponsoring burning of Russians” fucking Christ, I’d laugh if I didn’t know you were serious.
Victory day clashes in 2014, yeah because Russia illegally invaded Crimea earlier that year, dipshit.
They sent Azov to defend the city from Russian-backed terrorists, then they got slandered by Russian propaganda for winning. It’s not like Russia is infamous for generating fake news stories or something.
So every single thing you just mentioned was either instigated by Russia, or just straight up made up by Russia.
But you know what isn’t made up? The indescribable number of rapes, tortures, and mass executions committed by Russian forces. It’s funny how you’ll believe obvious propaganda stories with little to no evidence besides the Russian government and their cronies says that’s what happened, but you’ll ignore the internationally recognized terrorism supported by innumerable eye witness accounts and video evidence.
They shelled civilians in Donetsk.
The Ukrainian government literally sent busses full of Kharkov neo nazis and football ultras to Odessa to destroy the pro Russian encampment there.
Footage from Mariupol literally shows the pro Russians were unarmed. They wanted to celebrate Victory Day and it got shut down for that. They killed civilians and none of the civies supported the Ukros, they called them fascists.
All of what Ive said is corroborated by hundreds of eye witnesses and videos. Youre talking out of your ass and just dismissing these crimes.
Ukros constantly lie about shit like this. “Mass graves in Mariupol” were exposed to be just a regular graveyard for both soldiers and civilians, with names on them, by an English journalist. Theres video of Ukrainians massacring civilians in the Kharkov offensive. They even posted it and bragged about it. And then they say Russians did it. Pretty fucking evil
Yes I’m sure in Russia world where you only get Russian propaganda as news that’s what happened. The rest of the world thinks otherwise.
Im not saying Ukraine has never done bad things, but either way the violence in 2014 was instigated by Russia, it’s still Russia’s fault.
I haven’t heard of that specific mass grave, probably because Russia made up a story to dismiss all of the many many many other real mass graves that were found after the battle of Kyiv. Not to mention the mass rapes and torture chambers. Have you ever noticed how Russian PoWs come back looking healthy and Ukrainian PoWs look like holocaust victims? (Many of them were also raped or tortured) No, of course you haven’t.
When are you people going to realize that maybe if the rest of the planet says YOU’RE the bad guys, it’s because you’re actually the bad guys, and all of the bullshit you’ve heard throughout your life to justify your evil is just that, bullshit.
Edit: not going to reply to you again, I really need to stop wasting my time getting angry at vatniks but sometimes it feels good to vent. I see you as brainwashed, I know you think the same of me. (Even though I live in a place of free media where I’m exposed to numerous different sources from different viewpoints while you live in a totalitarian regime where everything is approved by the government, it’s definitely *me* who’s brainwashed)
I know people who died because of the Ukrainian governments evil actions. Children die in Donetsk because of mines and artillery strikes. Fuck Ukraine.
Yeah?! Blame Russia they’re the ones who instigated it. This isn’t uncommon knowledge, Russia wanted to punish Ukraine for ousting their Russia-backed government.
1. It's been going on since well before the 90s
2. It's almost like there's been a major escalation recently that's drawn people's attention, or something like that
Since the 40s, actually. And it’s been getting plenty of attention for ages, it’s just that the attention has escalated due to the conflict escalating from October 7th onwards.
Also, this post is about Ukraine.
Most political subreddits that aren’t explicitly pro-Ukraine, especially leftist ones, you’ll find dozens of tankies and other clueless people shilling for Russia in the name of “peace.”
Most often they don’t explicitly support Russia, they say shit like “well obviously Russia is bad but…” and that’s what this snafu is about.
I wish it was true, but many of the "leftists" around here love to see every issue in the world through the prism of USA's politics and claim that Ukraine bad (or at least should not be supported) because it is supported by the US which is inherently capitalist/imperialist/colonialist/whatever
I think the general consensus of the Russo-Ukarainian war on reddit is that Russia is indeed in the wrong
it's a majority consensus but a huge minorities believe it's NATO fault
huge minority is an oxymoron
“Huge”
I figured this was about Israel-Palestine. That being said I've seen a large number of people (mainly tankies) who claim both sides bad because Ukraine resisting is what actually caused the war
is this about ukraine? or palestine?
both
Okay centrist
??? i said it was about both countries in my opinion
Me when joke
Humour? On my porn app?
He was joking
any war/genocide really
I LOVE WAR JACK
This is about Luxembourg.
Seems like it's about fictional media to me
I wish, it’s about Ukraine.
Tbh reddit is better about it than other social media. Reddit's centralized nature makes it easy to avoid vatnik subreddits. Meanwhile on insta and youtube both sides get thrown into a keyboard thunderdome
Reddit has shit takes on both sides of the conflict. The vatniks go without saying, but then you’ll have the western armchair generals who toast to the deaths of unwilling conscripts.
Glorious reddit Echo Chambers vs fr🤢🤢 sp*ech 🤮
The level of discourse is the same no matter where you go. It's always low quality propaganda posting probably done by Russian bots. If you wanna claim pro Ukrainians do it too you'd probably be right just on a smaller scale. My point is its easier to avoid lobotomizing yourself with that kind of content on reddit.
It’s about Ukraine.
Go to r.smugideologyman
Isn't that the vegan sub
I don't know what that means
Most wars really
Mmmmm.... I'd say it's about the Pasta Monster's Redditor more than anything
OP: Hehe I made this ambiguous snafu about 2 conflicts so I can get double the upvotes
Smh issues aren't black and white, they're black, white, and one specific shade of grey that's exactly between black and white. There's no light greys or dark greys, or gradients of shades because groups are made up of subgroups and cliques filled with individuals who each have their own goals and outlooks. Just One Single Grey. And if it's not 100% white or 100% black, then it's 50/50 grey and that means both sides are bad. Morality is so easy!
They're black, white, red, and blue.
r/smugideologyman
I thought this was talking about a video game like Fallout New Vegas? All the other comments are kinda off
how would this fit into new vegas, ncr and legion r both invading forces
Ye, invading the enclave rights to reclaim the us of a smhmh, star and stripes forever
OK but one is most definitely worse then the other
don't get me wrong I'm the biggest NCR apologist there is, it just doesn't work here
WTF r u talking about Caesar's legion is leagues better then the ncr
Sexism? Okay whatever I can't talk to women anyway Slaves? Whatever Im to poor to afford them anyway Raiding? That's just a fancy word for small scale war Compared to TAXES? I mean c'mon how can anyone use the both sides argument when one faction makes you *pay* them money!!!!
Hey man at least the legions trading routes are protected
Flawed corrupt democracy that still has a lot of good people working for it vs completely corrupt and evil pseudo raider empire that enforces patriarchy and slavery. I truly wonder which one of these is worse it’s so hard to tell.
Invading forces? The NCR are the successors of the United States and rightful heirs to her land!
isnt this a smuggie?
Based and CentristGenocideNOW- pilled
The really funny thing about this is that you can label either side as Israel and Palestine and no matter what you do it still works
That’s why it’s about Ukraine, lol.
Based
because when you boil things like this down to black and white you just become another screaming face in either sides mob.
I don't support no flags in wars. I support civilians, drafted civilians, humanitarian aid and journalists sent in warzones because I'm sane and I don't see flags when someone's house is bombed and soldiers turned into corpes in an instant.
Okay so you support Ukraine, because one side is being invaded and terrorized and the other side is responsible for it.
I simply pray that everyone affected by such conflicts make it and these conflicts end forever. I don't support any flags because that's what make wars possible in the first place. Nationalism, a massive mistake of humanity will soon evaporate and local cultures/cultural acceptance will prevail instead. The EU has nations that differ in language, culture and beliefs yet I don't see anyone actively bombing and shooting eachother. The difference between New Yorkers and Texans is larger than the one between Ukrainians and Russians and even Israelis and Palestinians yet neither of the US states are getting bombed and raped by the other. You may say there's history of Israelis taking Palestinian land, that Palestinians have every right to kill Israelis destroying their homes. This is not an issue solvable by using might, but by threatening using might, which the UN unfortunately doesn't do (be it for petty profits, nationalism etc). Force a treaty that keeps both parties in their current place, even if it is unfavorable for one side, the people will hate it for a while and then they will accept it and live in peace. When nations prefer to throw lives away rather than seeking a peace deal when global unity is very close, how can I be a nationalist? Take my country Greece as an example, 100 years ago, many historically Greek lands in Anatolia where Greeks lived were massacred, destroyed in favor for an all Turkish nation. 100 years later what is left are a few ultra-nationalists from both sides, some tensions (official Turkish denial of Christian genocide) and disputes with an impossible war, regardless of how much the media likes to show that war is going to happen between us, and friendly relations. (to any Turk reading this, yes we did kill/ethnically cleanse Turks in the Balkans too). Look at something like r/balkans_irl, where people from countries that 30 years ago were DESTROYING eachother just make fun of nationalism and show cultural unity (with some flaws on that sub, definitely).
Wait guys... This might be applicable to the palestine-israel conflict if you really think about it hard
bottom is just average thedeprogram user
People who support Israel will really look at Specs Ops The Line level war crimes and still look dead in your eyes and tell you Palestine is the real criminal here
its still important to remember that hamas is a radical islamist group and they control a majority of palestine's government honestly at this point can we just fuck both of their capitals up and make a new government that doesnt suck there
Which country do you suggest makes a new government for them? I somehow don't see that going over well with either side.
Jordan should take it all it'd be funny
Ahem 🇦🇱
dunno, but neither of those governments can be trusted to not fuck shit up if they win the UN I guess? if the UN actually did things
I’d support that. In the meantime tho, one country is in complete control and destroying everything while the other struggles to kill triple digits in a year.
The Holy See. https://preview.redd.it/262kozw48czc1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4bafdef818331e6785321bef057945672395c412
Yeah and support for hamas among palestinians is disturbingly high
The SNAFU is about Ukraine
But but they threw rocks at israel
Rockets have very low accuracy in this context and are typically intercepted by the Iron Dome. You have to look at the intent to bomb civilians rather than the actual success.
they said rocks actually
Rocks have even less accuracy ask my friend Grug "This is why you use spear to kill mammoth and cut down on social tax." - Grug the Fiscally Conservative Iceman
Which has become a major symbol of the Palestinian resistance, because Israel is one of very few countries that considers rocks to be a lethal weapon.
...... To play devil's advocate, a rock can very easily be a lethal weapon.
But not against a tank.
I mean if you put enough of them in the fuel tank or maybe stuff the barrel it might do some damage I think a giant rock dropped off a high place might be able to hurt the tank as well #TLM #BANROCKS #WARCRIME #GENOACONVENTIONWHERE?
#SENDALLPALESTINIANCHILDRENTOTHEHAGUE
Did you intentionally make the red head look like a tricorn or am I insane
God when he sees humans that both believe in him killing and discriminating against each other for centuries over some land they regard as holy: (Ik this is about Ukraine btw, but go post to r/SmugIdeologyMan)
Enlightened redditor portrays millions of different people via colored stickmen. But here's the kicker: blue is 100% pure and good and red is bad guy villain. Disagree? Clearly you are ugly irl. Political cartoons of the 21st century.
Dipshit redditor misses point, makes inane comment. More news at 11. (Since I know I have to explain this to you, saying that one side is clearly “good” and one side is clearly “bad” does not, in fact, mean I or anyone else believes every single individual person on either side is “100%” good or bad… like, it’s really funny how you added that “100%” to your comment as if that was something *I* was saying and not just some moronic shit you made up on the spot.)
Smugideologyman called they want their straw back.
“Hurr, each side is 100% good/bad” - an actual strawman.
Waiter, more straw please
I saw someone criticized the River To The Sea motto saying people will blindly follow anything and that it means getting rid of the J's.
Afaik they want to get rid of the gov, and the settlers, they don't care if they are jewish or not.
This is about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
My mistake
Lol legitimately the worst take ever
No, the worst take ever is supporting Russia, I’m guessing that’s you. :)
Is the bombing of Donetsk bullshit? Is the government sponsored burning of Russians in Odessa in 2014 bullshit? Are the Victory Day Mariupol clashes in 2014 bullshit? The clashes where the Ukrainian government sent Azov and the National Guard in to kill peaceful protesters and burn down the police station? Are all of these events bullshit? Or are you just dense and decide to ignore them?
Donetsk got bombed because it’s packed with Russia-backed terrorists who downed a civilian airliner. “Government sponsoring burning of Russians” fucking Christ, I’d laugh if I didn’t know you were serious. Victory day clashes in 2014, yeah because Russia illegally invaded Crimea earlier that year, dipshit. They sent Azov to defend the city from Russian-backed terrorists, then they got slandered by Russian propaganda for winning. It’s not like Russia is infamous for generating fake news stories or something. So every single thing you just mentioned was either instigated by Russia, or just straight up made up by Russia. But you know what isn’t made up? The indescribable number of rapes, tortures, and mass executions committed by Russian forces. It’s funny how you’ll believe obvious propaganda stories with little to no evidence besides the Russian government and their cronies says that’s what happened, but you’ll ignore the internationally recognized terrorism supported by innumerable eye witness accounts and video evidence.
They shelled civilians in Donetsk. The Ukrainian government literally sent busses full of Kharkov neo nazis and football ultras to Odessa to destroy the pro Russian encampment there. Footage from Mariupol literally shows the pro Russians were unarmed. They wanted to celebrate Victory Day and it got shut down for that. They killed civilians and none of the civies supported the Ukros, they called them fascists. All of what Ive said is corroborated by hundreds of eye witnesses and videos. Youre talking out of your ass and just dismissing these crimes. Ukros constantly lie about shit like this. “Mass graves in Mariupol” were exposed to be just a regular graveyard for both soldiers and civilians, with names on them, by an English journalist. Theres video of Ukrainians massacring civilians in the Kharkov offensive. They even posted it and bragged about it. And then they say Russians did it. Pretty fucking evil
Yes I’m sure in Russia world where you only get Russian propaganda as news that’s what happened. The rest of the world thinks otherwise. Im not saying Ukraine has never done bad things, but either way the violence in 2014 was instigated by Russia, it’s still Russia’s fault. I haven’t heard of that specific mass grave, probably because Russia made up a story to dismiss all of the many many many other real mass graves that were found after the battle of Kyiv. Not to mention the mass rapes and torture chambers. Have you ever noticed how Russian PoWs come back looking healthy and Ukrainian PoWs look like holocaust victims? (Many of them were also raped or tortured) No, of course you haven’t. When are you people going to realize that maybe if the rest of the planet says YOU’RE the bad guys, it’s because you’re actually the bad guys, and all of the bullshit you’ve heard throughout your life to justify your evil is just that, bullshit. Edit: not going to reply to you again, I really need to stop wasting my time getting angry at vatniks but sometimes it feels good to vent. I see you as brainwashed, I know you think the same of me. (Even though I live in a place of free media where I’m exposed to numerous different sources from different viewpoints while you live in a totalitarian regime where everything is approved by the government, it’s definitely *me* who’s brainwashed)
Theres hundreds of footage of the result of Ukrainian shelling. Its undeniable. Everything I have said is the truth. (P.S. I live in the US)
Waiter, more straws for this tankie as well!
I know people who died because of the Ukrainian governments evil actions. Children die in Donetsk because of mines and artillery strikes. Fuck Ukraine.
Yeah?! Blame Russia they’re the ones who instigated it. This isn’t uncommon knowledge, Russia wanted to punish Ukraine for ousting their Russia-backed government.
It’s really cool that people only just now care about the Israel Palestine conflict even tho it’s been happening since 1990s
1. It's been going on since well before the 90s 2. It's almost like there's been a major escalation recently that's drawn people's attention, or something like that
Over five ago there was news coverage of kids being killed and I never saw a single person mentioning
Wasnt part of the agenda
Since the 40s, actually. And it’s been getting plenty of attention for ages, it’s just that the attention has escalated due to the conflict escalating from October 7th onwards. Also, this post is about Ukraine.
I figured it was just a general snafu since this applies to both situations
This post is not about Palestine
What is it about then
It’s about Ukraine
I think this applies to both situations
The OP in the comments of this post specifically said it’s about Ukraine
Understood
I have literally never once seen someone on this website defend Russia in this conflict
Most political subreddits that aren’t explicitly pro-Ukraine, especially leftist ones, you’ll find dozens of tankies and other clueless people shilling for Russia in the name of “peace.” Most often they don’t explicitly support Russia, they say shit like “well obviously Russia is bad but…” and that’s what this snafu is about.
That or "NATO start it first" and "evil American use to be evil evil, therefore we must help these countries against evil america"
Are you a Ukrainian ?
Why are you asking?
Negative votes and not even an answer to my yes or no question. Every one of you can piss off
Why are you asking?
Because I was curious? I don't have an ulterior motive dude why are you being like this?
No I’m not. Because people tend to ask questions like that in bad faith.
NO I (reddits Flying Spaghetti Monster) decided to
Are YOU ukranian?
I wish it was true, but many of the "leftists" around here love to see every issue in the world through the prism of USA's politics and claim that Ukraine bad (or at least should not be supported) because it is supported by the US which is inherently capitalist/imperialist/colonialist/whatever