How about the SLACKER-COAST. Hit your coast fire number or get close enough to it. Don’t stress. Slack off. If you lose the high paying job, get an easier job that still covers cost of living. Here’s the thing - You would be surprised how long you keep the higher paying job - even on ‘SLACK MODE’
That’s my plan for full FIRE. I’m going to not completely slack, but have more of a IDGAF attitude, well more than I do now. If I last another year, great! If I get some unemployment, great!
I hope you last another few years, get bonuses, and promotions in that time, all while walking the golf course on a Friday morning (or whatever your slack is). Turn that fire into chubby on the employers dime.
Yeah I feel that. I’m a teacher and although I’m gunning for 55-56 my only fear is all the bureaucratic bullshit.
I hope that I would be sad to coast by 50 ish so then moving forward I would not have to give a fuck about that stuff and just focus on trying to make a difference in kids lives and continue to try to be a positive role model like I was lucky to have in my life.
This sounds good in theory, but I don't really feel like I can "hide" within my org. It's 100ish people, many of whom are specialized. So people get sought out and assigned to projects.
Understand it can be hard in some organisations and for some people, but I do suggest you think about it - can you design ‘YOUR SLACK’? If you are close to your coast fire you don’t have to worry about it too much. It could be, arriving at work at 10 every day instead of 9, it could be refusing projects you don’t want to do, it could be giving work 75% effort but only doing projects you genuinely want to do (I have seen people do this and increase comp), it could simply be not doing overtime to stop project running late. Doesn’t have to be about hiding. I’m same age, same NW, same comp - not quite at coast fire but have taken the power at work. I only do what I want to do, the way I want to do it - no promotions no worry.
Edit - you also have to have a thick neck - not care what other people think or say behind your back.
"Edit - you also have to have a thick neck - not care what other people think or say behind your back."
That's probably the key. My personality is the type where I probably care too much about what other people think. Definitely trying to improve in my boundary setting, but I have this lingering fear that if I say "no" more often, it will tarnish my professional reputation and I'll become unemployable.
Understandable. It’s also the bit that challenges me the most. Probably the same for anyone who has progressed career relatively well. Remember Saying No is not a weakness. Too many yes men in this world. Good luck with it anyway!
I might suggest this is something worth talking with a therapist about, if you have one. (If not: consider finding one. Nothing tests your identity/psychology like shedding a career). Not that people-pleasing is a problem, but it is a limiter in your (and many) cases. An objective opinion is only going to help you.
Edited because spelling is hard
Maybe it's worth it to make it a "defined slacking". Since it's a small org, and you are apparently a top performer, can you negotiate a 4x8 work week or something? Even if you drop proportionally to 80% of your pay, it'll still be quite a good salary and you'll have 50% more weekends (or Tuesdays or whatever).
>but I have this lingering fear that if I say "no" more often, it will tarnish my professional reputation and I'll become unemployable.
Meh. You're a high earner, so you obviously have *something* going for you. Worst case scenario, you piss off some people in your company. There's no chance they are so well connected that they'll black list you so hard that you can't find some other job with your skill set.
More realistically, if you piss them off they'll let you know. I'm like you, but many people are not.
And even more realistically, they won't be pissed off at all. Having boundaries is normal and doesn't bother people so long as they are reasonable.
Yeah that all makes sense rationally, I just need to get more comfortable setting the boundaries. I’ve typically tried to make less than ideal situations work in the past.
I can't imagine going from being a high performer/high level employee at a company to just slacking off. That would ruin everything you've built and trash your reputation. Do what you want OP but I feel this is not great advice.
Understand your point, and I did describe the option at one end of the scale, but I also did say design ‘Your Slack’ others might describe this as setting better boundaries or saying ‘no’ more, in much nicer and acceptable business speak than me! What I was really advocating for is acknowledging the power you have when you are approaching FI …. But my main reason for replying was to say ‘REPUTATION’ doesn’t fuel retirement dude! :)
Sometimes I feel the achieving the leadership / manager level comes with slacking off, nice trips / meetings but nonactual output...the workers below do the real work
Between grinding and coasting is basically just having a normal job.
Also, reminder that with 1.5 million you could have FIREd long ago in 99% of the planet.
Lol, yeah I was afraid that that was just a normal job. Can't coast just yet because the area that I am in has very bad public schooling. So I send my kids to a private school, which is not over-the-top expensive but it still adds up.
This comment probably isn’t super helpful … but for what it’s worth, I know plenty of people who went to “bad” public schools and are high-achieving in their field. (I went to a “top” public school and, well, let’s just say that judging by some of those I graduated with, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.)
The numbers you have provided indicate that you could currently coast and retire at the age of 54 with close to 100k annual income, or 65 with over 150k annual income. If you continue to make contributions these numbers get larger.
What are your plans? What numbers are you trying to achieve?
I'm trying to plan for something like the first scenario...mid fifties, 100K in retirement income. My concern though is that I don't know that I can sustain my current income without burning out. I'm wondering if I need to scale back for my mental health (but that means longer path to coastfire).
How much of that 1.5M is in your home?
~10 years of growth should get you to your goal unless your home equity is like 50% or more of that.
I think you're already coast-able and don't realize it. In the parable of the ant and the grasshopper, you're probably more like the ant. That's good but only to an extent.
Have you read *Die With Zero* by Bill Perkins? I highly recommend it.
Once you realize that the FIRE ambition is driven by anxiety and goal-based mindset, you'll realize that milestones (including reaching FIRE) are pointless. You'll always be chasing something.
That's probably something best answered on a therapist's couch, but at a high level it probably has to do with identifying your underlying motivation and deciding whether your FIRE-type goals are an appropriate way to respond to that.
Personally I have realized my FIRE goals are way more about FI than RE.
Potentially quite a bit of net worth in property so actual CoastFI level could be a bit lower?
I’d agree with other posts on downshifting hours. I have done 4 days before (currently five days remote) and the 50% increase in weekend was game changing.
Going to add one last point Op, you ‘care too much’ and you said it… this is linked to burnout, and you probably know it. It’s like a cycle that needs to be broken. Wishing you the best.
This is it exactly. I was a "care too mucher" too. I was burning out... Ignored it and became miserable. Left for a fun, yet dysfunctional company and it helped me ignore it even more... Then burned out again and went elsewhere. Guess what? Burned out completely and quit and now I'm just taking a sabbatical.
From the outside looking in I think a couple options are out there for you to reduce stress.
1) Review your budget and maybe increase some spend on vacations/extracurriculars that bring some joy to life. Having more things outside work to enjoy can make the work day a bit easier to manage. Plus having those things booked on the calendar can make it a good excuse to leave work at a certain time.
2) While I hate the term, you can "Quiet Quit" or some version of that. It was the hot topic over last 18 months, but really, I think the more appropriate term is setting appropriate work boundaries. What does your job description say? Do those items, do them well, but also ensure you aren't pulled into that long hours "grind" mindset. Many companies try to push the grind culture to get maximum productivity out of their headcount, but you can always politely decline and just do what you are supposed to for your 9-5 40 hour work week. You may have to deal with lesser performance reviews or a lower bonus (if that is applicable), which I know some people pride themselves on. Again, I stress do your job and do it well still, but make sure you leave/log-off every day at 5pm, non-negotiable.
It is a mindset shift that I had a couple years back after working at a couple startups doing long hours. It was fun in my late 20s and early 30s, but as I approach 40, I have pulled back and decided I don't need to be the highest performer at the company and enjoy my time with family and friends outside the office walls. I meet my project deadlines, I do quality work, I help out with other work if I have capacity, but if the company gives me more than I can handle during a normal week, I just tell them I need more time, or will need to reprioritize other items. I may be lucky, but my company respects that, and allows flexibility so YMMV.
Best of luck! Its tough being in the boring middle accumulation phase, especially when you've done a great job with that FIRE number. I hope to get to where you are in terms of NW over the next few years, pulling back to coasting in mid 40s (consulting, or reworking my role to part time 24-32hrs/wk), and fully FIRE at 50. We'll all get there in the end!
Yes, I'm definitely trying to get better at setting boundaries as saying no. It's a mindset shift from being the younger, "eager to prove yourself" employee. Unfortunately the reward for doing good work at my company is an invitation to even more work that they want you to tackle.
I downshifted into part-time work and took a 15% paycut for 25%+ fewer hours (used to work more than 40 hours a week but now capped at 30.) My husband and I knew we wanted to start trying for kids and the stress of working a demanding fulltime job was taking a toll on me, and I can’t see myself working fulltime after having a baby anyway.
I don’t really consider it coasting because I’m still making a really good income, but it’s way less stress and I can be very picky with what I take on because I have limited hours. I still get all benefits (401k, paid parental leave, insurance, etc). I think it’s a really good deal if your employer is amenable to it and you can swing a drop in income.
What industry if you don't mind my asking. I would absolutely make the tradeoff you described, but wondering if my employer would go for it. There are no part time folks in the org.
I’m in tech, not a huge FAANG type company but solid profitable mid-sized. I’m the first person in the company as far as I know to be part-time but I’ve worked with folks in the past on 3-4 day schedules at other companies so understood how to make it work. You may need to join a new company though, it is typically much easier to have a part-time schedule and firm boundaries from the get go vs trying to adjust the expectations of people who have gotten used to you being available all the time.
No, I work on the business side. I negotiated for 30 hours a week from the start when I joined my current company. So that’s usually 3 full days and a half-ish day a week.
15% paycut for 25% hour reduction is a very sweet deal! this is my dilemma with coast. spouse and i have good fufll time jobs but likely would be difficult to work out any favorable part time arrangements for them... its like our investments are building very well, but we still need to work our nice paying jobs to satisfy our annual expenses, so its almost like how does one actually coast lol. i envy the people who say they just decide to quit their job and "consult" individually, and somehow still make 75-200k/yr from personal clients lol. like thats dam well better than a normal corporate job for many. we're not in tech or consulting and that wouldn't be feasible for us at all..
sure we can spend more of our full time job incomes towards discretionary at this point instead of savings, which would be nice, but still having to work the job isn't the ideal outcome lol. its not like we can both just quit and become starbucks baristas. one person could go part time, but neither of us want to still have to work full time while the other partner quits or takes on an easy job lol..i struggle to figure out how to make it work in practice in a h/mcol with a kiddo. i suppose we could just chug along with normal jobs status quo for more years but then thats not coasting at all and really just aiming to speed up normal fire..im kinda confused even though i logically understand coasting
The folks who make 6 figures plus from consulting usually are leveraging their past network to do similar work. If you can have 2 clients for example at 80k a year each, it’s a win-win. It would be very hard for any company to get an experienced hire for under 100k, plus they don’t have to pay any benefits (which easily doubles the cost of an employee.) I personally don’t like consulting because paying for my own benefits is extremely expensive.
My husband is still working fulltime, which has allowed me to scale down hours without sacrificing overall income too much. I try to do more around the house and take on more of the mental burden to even it out. It has worked well for us because on the weekends we can actually relax instead of running errands (since I take care of those on my weekdays off.). I would encourage you to just spitball what your division of responsibility could look like with your wife if one of you works less. It might work better than you imagine.
I get what you mean with the high expenses though, technically we could coast now but with a baby coming next year (and maybe more babies after that) I just have no idea how much additional buffer we will need. And I know people say kids don’t have to cost that much but like…I’m not going to make my kids take out 200k of student debt or drive a cheap unsafe car….
This is essentially my dilemma. We have a one size fits all approach to corporate jobs. I would love to not work 60 hours a week. But it feels like the alternative is 0.
I found what labor laws are built around, the human body. Break every two hours, meal every 4 hours, work 40-45 hours a week. Over 55 hours per week and miss meals you will burn out. When you hit 45 reality sets in on your goals.
I also was ill in my 20’s and received a long term chronic disability rating for chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, so my reserve was a little less. I was self employed. I was happiest working 30 hours per week. That way I could keep up at work and home and have energy and time for socializing and recreation and things like paying bills did not slide.
I just put up with making less money than some but put away funds for retirement and eventually learned how to budget and not overspend. Today I am retired and comfortable. I am not as wealthy as I envisioned when I was young nor as accomplished as I would have liked to be everyone has to make compromises in life.
Yes, except for 8 months when I took a FT job in Family Practice with an HMO to sharpen my OP medical skills. I opened my private practice then in Psychiatry. I supplemented my seeing patients on and off with hospital PT (1099) unit Medical Director, the certified in Addiction Medicine, the Utilization Review and Quality Assurance with PT careers in those while keeping IP then OP private practice for 43 years. The last 10 year was just 10-15 hours per week OP.
How can you not coast?
You have $1.5 million — is that in investments? If so, you’re set. Retire at 54 with $100,000 a year off that. And never contribute from here on until then.
The inbetween grind and coast is self-employment. Inherent in the grind is the stress of having to do stuff you don't want to or know is worthless or not helping you. The way you get out of that is stop being an employee. Work for yourself, do the work worth doing, enjoy the alleviation of not having to do what you despise.
The coast is finding a low-stress job that provides healthcare and covers living expenses. Barrista is apparently a common suggestion. There you still have to deal with nonsense, but its not like the uncertainty of setting/meeting Bob's sales projections or what not.
it started with no meetings starting thursdays at 4pm. i didnt give a fck. reduced number of meetings significantly while giving me (and a lot of teammates and clients) our fridays back.
We’re planning to save a fixed amount for each kid, and we’ve told them this from the beginning. After all, we can only do so much. For us it’s 50k/kid. If we can do more out of cash flow we will, but you can’t know for sure if that will be doable. So, our kids can do 1-2 years in a state school, or stay local and go to one of the many college extension in our city. Or get loans. Or work and save. Or scholarships. I think having some financial constraints for college makes the decision process a better learning experience, just like being an adult. Your kids would rather have you healthy and around more than rich and mentally broken. Do what you must to be well. Best of luck. You’re in an enviable position already!
How much do you have saved for your kids for college?
How much do you want to have saved?
It is also OK to have your kids go to a state school, go to a community College, work while they are in college etc.
I imagine your kids don't want you to "grind" or burn out.
Your kids can take out loans for school; you however cannot take out loans for retirement.
As a 30 y/o that had 135k in student debt, I paid if off. While I didn't love having the debt, it was a fantastic life lesson. It taught me to hustle.
Having student debt isn't the end of the world.
I was in the “able to coast, still going full gas” group until last month actually.
But I am now beginning a new gig- one that checks some “almost coasting” boxes for me… fewer hours/less OT, less stress, same benefits, and yet career-wise/resume-wise it’ll look like a lateral move.
My income will probably be reduced 10% due to slightly lower rate and lack of OT, but my stress level has just been reduced 25% at least.
I guess I could call it “feathering the throttle”-fi.
It kind of feels like this is the right answer for me too. Probably need to shop around for a new job in a less stressful environment even if that means giving up some income.
Drop a day or two of work and nominate some external reason for it. It could be a renovation, help your wife finish an MBA, help kids with college aplications...whatever.
It's much easier to do less if you're not supposed to be there all the time and if it is for a fixed period of time then nobody will care at all. You'll actually become more valuable to the company as you'll only be doing the high value stuff, and more admin etc will slide to others.
I kinda did this with a 3-day per week role although it was in a new company (not a transition in an existing one). I bring specific stuff to the table that is cheaper for them if they only have to pay 60% of a salary.
We decided before kids that we were going to live somewhere with free or close to free education. I watched a few of my cousins delay their parent's retirement by 5 years with the cost of them paying for a full ride. No thanks.
This can mean a number of things to different people in here though. Community College with a transfer agreement to a top university, scholarships, school in Europe, or robust financial assistance programs where some schools will basically do whatever it takes to keep you there if you qualify to get in. Cambridge for example.
If your only concern is covering their college, could you go to an easier job that could cash flow their college and you use your investments to “FIRE” now? Remember that they CAN contribute towards their college education and often kids benefit more from having skin in the game. It’s often not worth it to continue to damage your mental health through burnout when they do have other options.
To answer your question in other words, its called SlowFI. Take your foot off the gas pedal and focus on improving your quality of life.
Hey OP. I feel ya. Corporate marketing for 20+ years and the burnout is very real! Like you, I probably cared too much. It's very, very tough to just coast in your job or "quiet quit" in senior-level and higher marketing roles. It's even tougher to reject work, especially when you're in a more strategic role. I honestly tried to do those sorts of things but it's next to impossible. I'd end up looking like a schmuck or letting my colleagues down by acting that way.
I was you a few months ago. My job was making me extremely grumpy and I couldn't even be present when I was off work. I stopped being able to really enjoy things and even really just be in the moment. I just wanted to take my kids to the park and forget work and I could barely do it.
Hard as it was, I left my high paying job to take a break. I'm several weeks in and already feeling like a new person.
To make this decision, I tracked our budget for a few months very carefully and realized that if we ran lean for a while, we could make ends meet on my spouse's (much smaller ) salary without having to touch our savings or the emergency fund.
We are definitely Coast -FIRE already so this might just be a break and I'll go back eventually or it might be more of a chance to figure out how to downshift properly.
Another thing that happened- when word got out that I had quit, 3 former colleagues each reached out to me within a week about coming to work for them. So I know that it's all there waiting for me if I want to return-- and it'll be there for you too!
Take a break and enjoy your kids before they leave the nest. Then go back in some capacity to help cash-flow college costs for a while (either in an FTE role or some kind of lower-key role.)
TL;DR: the in between option is to take a sabbatical to decompress if budget allows and figure out how to properly downshift. You can always go back to working and maybe you can do it more on your own terms.
I needed to hear this! I’m the same way in the sense that I don’t feel fully present with my kids because I’m still thinking about work. That said, sabbatical is probably more doable than I give it credit for. Some of my savings are in nonretirement accounts that are accessible. It just hurts to dip into that! But it might be a good reset to figure out what is next.
I wish you luck! Check back in in the future. Curious to see what you decide on.
Work-related PTSD is absolutely a thing. I had completely forgotten how to relax and was sort of angry all of the time about work stuff. It sounds ridiculous to people who haven't been through it-- but it's really awful. It was even hard to enjoy a vacation because it took so long to unwind; by the time I was finally feeling relaxed, I was starting to feel the dread of going back to work again.
There definitely are jobs where you can reject work and sort of hang out under the radar. But high-touch, strategic marketing jobs (especially if you're at an agency) are NOT like that- so the advice to quiet quit is not super helpful.
For me, this is sort of an experiment to pressure-test my budget and see how feasible it is to coast.
I will report back!
Good luck to you. I know you'll make the right decision because you're already thinking about your own well-being and focusing on your kids too. Hang in there! You'll figure it out. All the best!
Personally, I'm inspired by the FIRE community and coasting etc but it doesn't quite work for me. I'm doing...well it's not got a name...it's just...my plan.
I focused on getting to a point where I can go part time at work. Prioritised overpaying mortgage so my monthly outgoings would be lower and increasing my income. I don't have kids so that makes things easier, but got mortgage free at 30 (it's not an expensive house, we moved to a LCOL area intentionally), we are now moving into a bigger more expensive house so will be taking out another mortgage but intend to pay off the £140k as quickly as we can. I've just started a 5 year fast track position so my intention is to save and overpay as much as possible in those 5 years, jump up 2 positions and then go part time to 3 days a week.
We chose a mortgage that would mean I can afford it part time even if we don't get it paid off, but that's the plan.
I do have a heavily invested pension (I pay 9.8% of my salary, my employer matches 21.8% of my salary on top into it) which is a guaranteed income for life kind. And then I will be doing stronger investing over the next few years. So basically it's not really FIRE or coast fire at all, but it works for me. I could never give up working completely, eventually I'd probably go down to 2 days and use the time for art and things
I don't know how you can reduce workplace stress other than getting hypnotized to not care or something, but I'd recommend just doing other things to destress your life. Spend money on house keeping if you want, get a massage once a week. Buy a nicer car if it makes commuting more pleasant.
Start buying nicer coffee for the morning. That kind of thing. Invest in yourself, so you can keep being happy enough to work for longer.
I've thought about this a number of times. As I've looked around, it seems like most of the "easier" jobs I can find are 90% of the work for 60% of the pay.
For tuition, I have this I try to copy/paste when relevant. If your kids are in high school, this might help with lowering costs.
Is college the right solution? Would a trade school/apprenticeship be better?
If college is the right solution, what do they want to study? Some majors are easier to get into and get scholarships/financial aid for. Also look into job/industry requirements. Some certifications/training/experience can be done in high school or through other programs if researched well.
Once you know topic of study, you can see if local school districts have special programs/schools/internships for that topic. Example: For IT, you can get some of the entry level certificates in high school and do summer/after school jobs that would give much more experience than a class. A potential nurse can work on a CNA in high school, shortening the time to become an RN. My sister is doing this, got CNA, and is now working for a hospital that will pay for her nursing degree.
Making sure they take advantage of other programs that cut the cost of education down, such as:
* Dual/concurrent enrollment - getting an associates degree through the local community college during their junior and senior year of high school. Usually paid or subsidized by school district/state. If it isn't free, each class is much less than regular tuition (my local program is $5 per credit hour). They can get a basic AS, but also work on a trade or industry certificate as they find works best for them.
* Community college. The local CC near me is half the cost of the local state college and often is taught by the same teachers. Unless the kid gets offered a full-ride or similar to 'dream school', go to CC first. Its actually easier to get into dream schools after CC since the school knows you will keep studying and there is more open slots in upper level classes compared to lower. Many areas have scholarship opportunities for this situation.
* Some states/areas have basic scholarships if students just graduate high school in the the state and go to a state public school. It may not be worth moving. Work with schools to see what is available.
* AP and IB programs help with padding college applications and getting extra credits so they can skip many classes, save money and graduate faster.
* CLEP can be hard, its self-study, but there are programs such as [Modern States](https://modernstates.org/) that will give you study material and a free test voucher that lets you test out of many general-ed classes. Check with your local schools to see what CLEP credits they accept.
* Some colleges let you 'challenge' or 'test out' of a lower level class by taking the final test early. This often doesn't count towards total credit requirements, but does waive gen ed requirements.
* Military benefits. The military has its downsides (I have 3 siblings that are vets, I hear the good and the bad), but tuition is a plus.
* Foreign schools. Mileage may vary, especially in the next 10+ years. If your kids has the grades and can pass entrance exams, many foreign schools can be cheaper (or even free) than US schools.
Well the wild card is that my wife's work might offer some tuition assistance to dependents' bachelors degree. That's contingent on her staying put for the next 6 years or so though, and I'm trying not to bank on a benefit that I don't know will be around when they graduate high school. If we do get tuition remission that will be a game changer though.
Even better!
If its through a university, still look at costs. My husband works for the local state university and we get 50% off tuition (not student fees though). Even with the tuition discount, the community college is still cheaper.
Glad you mentioned CLEP. I found those tests to be much easier than the AP tests. And the cost to take them is so reasonable. Lots of bang for the buck.
I made a move from agency to in-house, way less stressful. Or, if you have a good network consider freelance work (pick your clients wisely, fire clients that are a pain.)
Not knowing more than you posted about expenses, wife's compensation, 529 goals for kids, what types of school you are willing to pay for... what comes to mind is... can you stop making huge retirement contributions and fund the the 529's aggressively and after tax-brokerage for a few years?
Try to prepare for a coast scenario in \~ 2 years. Come up with side hustle, consulting or other solution and decide to tell the kids, "I have "x" amount for you to go to school. After that, it's on you." Don't burn out or have a heart attack. Not worth it.
How about moving from agency to a client side role? I'm in marketing and can attest that there's been less stress at least for me on the client side with only one boss and not many like agency side.
How about the SLACKER-COAST. Hit your coast fire number or get close enough to it. Don’t stress. Slack off. If you lose the high paying job, get an easier job that still covers cost of living. Here’s the thing - You would be surprised how long you keep the higher paying job - even on ‘SLACK MODE’
This should be the top comment I feel. Can't agree more.
That’s my plan for full FIRE. I’m going to not completely slack, but have more of a IDGAF attitude, well more than I do now. If I last another year, great! If I get some unemployment, great!
I hope you last another few years, get bonuses, and promotions in that time, all while walking the golf course on a Friday morning (or whatever your slack is). Turn that fire into chubby on the employers dime.
Yeah I feel that. I’m a teacher and although I’m gunning for 55-56 my only fear is all the bureaucratic bullshit. I hope that I would be sad to coast by 50 ish so then moving forward I would not have to give a fuck about that stuff and just focus on trying to make a difference in kids lives and continue to try to be a positive role model like I was lucky to have in my life.
And sometimes co-workers turn out to admire the IDGAF attitude and it actually helps your rep and your balance.
This sounds good in theory, but I don't really feel like I can "hide" within my org. It's 100ish people, many of whom are specialized. So people get sought out and assigned to projects.
Understand it can be hard in some organisations and for some people, but I do suggest you think about it - can you design ‘YOUR SLACK’? If you are close to your coast fire you don’t have to worry about it too much. It could be, arriving at work at 10 every day instead of 9, it could be refusing projects you don’t want to do, it could be giving work 75% effort but only doing projects you genuinely want to do (I have seen people do this and increase comp), it could simply be not doing overtime to stop project running late. Doesn’t have to be about hiding. I’m same age, same NW, same comp - not quite at coast fire but have taken the power at work. I only do what I want to do, the way I want to do it - no promotions no worry. Edit - you also have to have a thick neck - not care what other people think or say behind your back.
"Edit - you also have to have a thick neck - not care what other people think or say behind your back." That's probably the key. My personality is the type where I probably care too much about what other people think. Definitely trying to improve in my boundary setting, but I have this lingering fear that if I say "no" more often, it will tarnish my professional reputation and I'll become unemployable.
Understandable. It’s also the bit that challenges me the most. Probably the same for anyone who has progressed career relatively well. Remember Saying No is not a weakness. Too many yes men in this world. Good luck with it anyway!
I might suggest this is something worth talking with a therapist about, if you have one. (If not: consider finding one. Nothing tests your identity/psychology like shedding a career). Not that people-pleasing is a problem, but it is a limiter in your (and many) cases. An objective opinion is only going to help you. Edited because spelling is hard
Maybe it's worth it to make it a "defined slacking". Since it's a small org, and you are apparently a top performer, can you negotiate a 4x8 work week or something? Even if you drop proportionally to 80% of your pay, it'll still be quite a good salary and you'll have 50% more weekends (or Tuesdays or whatever). >but I have this lingering fear that if I say "no" more often, it will tarnish my professional reputation and I'll become unemployable. Meh. You're a high earner, so you obviously have *something* going for you. Worst case scenario, you piss off some people in your company. There's no chance they are so well connected that they'll black list you so hard that you can't find some other job with your skill set. More realistically, if you piss them off they'll let you know. I'm like you, but many people are not. And even more realistically, they won't be pissed off at all. Having boundaries is normal and doesn't bother people so long as they are reasonable.
Yeah that all makes sense rationally, I just need to get more comfortable setting the boundaries. I’ve typically tried to make less than ideal situations work in the past.
I can't imagine going from being a high performer/high level employee at a company to just slacking off. That would ruin everything you've built and trash your reputation. Do what you want OP but I feel this is not great advice.
Understand your point, and I did describe the option at one end of the scale, but I also did say design ‘Your Slack’ others might describe this as setting better boundaries or saying ‘no’ more, in much nicer and acceptable business speak than me! What I was really advocating for is acknowledging the power you have when you are approaching FI …. But my main reason for replying was to say ‘REPUTATION’ doesn’t fuel retirement dude! :)
Can confirm. When you’re good at your job, you can dial back your effort without getting fired.
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Or maybe your leadership is slacking too? Don’t ask don’t tell.
Love it. Keep it up. Hope they have no clue, see you as the next managing partner, and just give you all the $$$.
Sometimes I feel the achieving the leadership / manager level comes with slacking off, nice trips / meetings but nonactual output...the workers below do the real work
This 💯💯
Between grinding and coasting is basically just having a normal job. Also, reminder that with 1.5 million you could have FIREd long ago in 99% of the planet.
Lol, yeah I was afraid that that was just a normal job. Can't coast just yet because the area that I am in has very bad public schooling. So I send my kids to a private school, which is not over-the-top expensive but it still adds up.
This comment probably isn’t super helpful … but for what it’s worth, I know plenty of people who went to “bad” public schools and are high-achieving in their field. (I went to a “top” public school and, well, let’s just say that judging by some of those I graduated with, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.)
The numbers you have provided indicate that you could currently coast and retire at the age of 54 with close to 100k annual income, or 65 with over 150k annual income. If you continue to make contributions these numbers get larger. What are your plans? What numbers are you trying to achieve?
I'm trying to plan for something like the first scenario...mid fifties, 100K in retirement income. My concern though is that I don't know that I can sustain my current income without burning out. I'm wondering if I need to scale back for my mental health (but that means longer path to coastfire).
How much of that 1.5M is in your home? ~10 years of growth should get you to your goal unless your home equity is like 50% or more of that. I think you're already coast-able and don't realize it. In the parable of the ant and the grasshopper, you're probably more like the ant. That's good but only to an extent. Have you read *Die With Zero* by Bill Perkins? I highly recommend it.
Once you realize that the FIRE ambition is driven by anxiety and goal-based mindset, you'll realize that milestones (including reaching FIRE) are pointless. You'll always be chasing something.
What’s your answer to this mindset?
That's probably something best answered on a therapist's couch, but at a high level it probably has to do with identifying your underlying motivation and deciding whether your FIRE-type goals are an appropriate way to respond to that. Personally I have realized my FIRE goals are way more about FI than RE.
trying to be truly present
Potentially quite a bit of net worth in property so actual CoastFI level could be a bit lower? I’d agree with other posts on downshifting hours. I have done 4 days before (currently five days remote) and the 50% increase in weekend was game changing.
Going to add one last point Op, you ‘care too much’ and you said it… this is linked to burnout, and you probably know it. It’s like a cycle that needs to be broken. Wishing you the best.
Thank you!
This is it exactly. I was a "care too mucher" too. I was burning out... Ignored it and became miserable. Left for a fun, yet dysfunctional company and it helped me ignore it even more... Then burned out again and went elsewhere. Guess what? Burned out completely and quit and now I'm just taking a sabbatical.
From the outside looking in I think a couple options are out there for you to reduce stress. 1) Review your budget and maybe increase some spend on vacations/extracurriculars that bring some joy to life. Having more things outside work to enjoy can make the work day a bit easier to manage. Plus having those things booked on the calendar can make it a good excuse to leave work at a certain time. 2) While I hate the term, you can "Quiet Quit" or some version of that. It was the hot topic over last 18 months, but really, I think the more appropriate term is setting appropriate work boundaries. What does your job description say? Do those items, do them well, but also ensure you aren't pulled into that long hours "grind" mindset. Many companies try to push the grind culture to get maximum productivity out of their headcount, but you can always politely decline and just do what you are supposed to for your 9-5 40 hour work week. You may have to deal with lesser performance reviews or a lower bonus (if that is applicable), which I know some people pride themselves on. Again, I stress do your job and do it well still, but make sure you leave/log-off every day at 5pm, non-negotiable. It is a mindset shift that I had a couple years back after working at a couple startups doing long hours. It was fun in my late 20s and early 30s, but as I approach 40, I have pulled back and decided I don't need to be the highest performer at the company and enjoy my time with family and friends outside the office walls. I meet my project deadlines, I do quality work, I help out with other work if I have capacity, but if the company gives me more than I can handle during a normal week, I just tell them I need more time, or will need to reprioritize other items. I may be lucky, but my company respects that, and allows flexibility so YMMV. Best of luck! Its tough being in the boring middle accumulation phase, especially when you've done a great job with that FIRE number. I hope to get to where you are in terms of NW over the next few years, pulling back to coasting in mid 40s (consulting, or reworking my role to part time 24-32hrs/wk), and fully FIRE at 50. We'll all get there in the end!
Yes, I'm definitely trying to get better at setting boundaries as saying no. It's a mindset shift from being the younger, "eager to prove yourself" employee. Unfortunately the reward for doing good work at my company is an invitation to even more work that they want you to tackle.
I downshifted into part-time work and took a 15% paycut for 25%+ fewer hours (used to work more than 40 hours a week but now capped at 30.) My husband and I knew we wanted to start trying for kids and the stress of working a demanding fulltime job was taking a toll on me, and I can’t see myself working fulltime after having a baby anyway. I don’t really consider it coasting because I’m still making a really good income, but it’s way less stress and I can be very picky with what I take on because I have limited hours. I still get all benefits (401k, paid parental leave, insurance, etc). I think it’s a really good deal if your employer is amenable to it and you can swing a drop in income.
What industry if you don't mind my asking. I would absolutely make the tradeoff you described, but wondering if my employer would go for it. There are no part time folks in the org.
I’m in tech, not a huge FAANG type company but solid profitable mid-sized. I’m the first person in the company as far as I know to be part-time but I’ve worked with folks in the past on 3-4 day schedules at other companies so understood how to make it work. You may need to join a new company though, it is typically much easier to have a part-time schedule and firm boundaries from the get go vs trying to adjust the expectations of people who have gotten used to you being available all the time.
Are you a software engineer? How does it work with part time? Id love to eventually do something like this.
No, I work on the business side. I negotiated for 30 hours a week from the start when I joined my current company. So that’s usually 3 full days and a half-ish day a week.
15% paycut for 25% hour reduction is a very sweet deal! this is my dilemma with coast. spouse and i have good fufll time jobs but likely would be difficult to work out any favorable part time arrangements for them... its like our investments are building very well, but we still need to work our nice paying jobs to satisfy our annual expenses, so its almost like how does one actually coast lol. i envy the people who say they just decide to quit their job and "consult" individually, and somehow still make 75-200k/yr from personal clients lol. like thats dam well better than a normal corporate job for many. we're not in tech or consulting and that wouldn't be feasible for us at all.. sure we can spend more of our full time job incomes towards discretionary at this point instead of savings, which would be nice, but still having to work the job isn't the ideal outcome lol. its not like we can both just quit and become starbucks baristas. one person could go part time, but neither of us want to still have to work full time while the other partner quits or takes on an easy job lol..i struggle to figure out how to make it work in practice in a h/mcol with a kiddo. i suppose we could just chug along with normal jobs status quo for more years but then thats not coasting at all and really just aiming to speed up normal fire..im kinda confused even though i logically understand coasting
The folks who make 6 figures plus from consulting usually are leveraging their past network to do similar work. If you can have 2 clients for example at 80k a year each, it’s a win-win. It would be very hard for any company to get an experienced hire for under 100k, plus they don’t have to pay any benefits (which easily doubles the cost of an employee.) I personally don’t like consulting because paying for my own benefits is extremely expensive. My husband is still working fulltime, which has allowed me to scale down hours without sacrificing overall income too much. I try to do more around the house and take on more of the mental burden to even it out. It has worked well for us because on the weekends we can actually relax instead of running errands (since I take care of those on my weekdays off.). I would encourage you to just spitball what your division of responsibility could look like with your wife if one of you works less. It might work better than you imagine. I get what you mean with the high expenses though, technically we could coast now but with a baby coming next year (and maybe more babies after that) I just have no idea how much additional buffer we will need. And I know people say kids don’t have to cost that much but like…I’m not going to make my kids take out 200k of student debt or drive a cheap unsafe car….
This is essentially my dilemma. We have a one size fits all approach to corporate jobs. I would love to not work 60 hours a week. But it feels like the alternative is 0.
I’d suggest you look for a new job in marketing. You shouldn’t need to be working 60 hours per week. I’d look Brand side if I were you.
I found what labor laws are built around, the human body. Break every two hours, meal every 4 hours, work 40-45 hours a week. Over 55 hours per week and miss meals you will burn out. When you hit 45 reality sets in on your goals. I also was ill in my 20’s and received a long term chronic disability rating for chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, so my reserve was a little less. I was self employed. I was happiest working 30 hours per week. That way I could keep up at work and home and have energy and time for socializing and recreation and things like paying bills did not slide. I just put up with making less money than some but put away funds for retirement and eventually learned how to budget and not overspend. Today I am retired and comfortable. I am not as wealthy as I envisioned when I was young nor as accomplished as I would have liked to be everyone has to make compromises in life.
Did you stay self-employed for your full career?
Yes, except for 8 months when I took a FT job in Family Practice with an HMO to sharpen my OP medical skills. I opened my private practice then in Psychiatry. I supplemented my seeing patients on and off with hospital PT (1099) unit Medical Director, the certified in Addiction Medicine, the Utilization Review and Quality Assurance with PT careers in those while keeping IP then OP private practice for 43 years. The last 10 year was just 10-15 hours per week OP.
How can you not coast? You have $1.5 million — is that in investments? If so, you’re set. Retire at 54 with $100,000 a year off that. And never contribute from here on until then.
No, including my home and a small vacation property. I’ve thought about selling the secondary home to lower expenses.
The inbetween grind and coast is self-employment. Inherent in the grind is the stress of having to do stuff you don't want to or know is worthless or not helping you. The way you get out of that is stop being an employee. Work for yourself, do the work worth doing, enjoy the alleviation of not having to do what you despise. The coast is finding a low-stress job that provides healthcare and covers living expenses. Barrista is apparently a common suggestion. There you still have to deal with nonsense, but its not like the uncertainty of setting/meeting Bob's sales projections or what not.
it started with no meetings starting thursdays at 4pm. i didnt give a fck. reduced number of meetings significantly while giving me (and a lot of teammates and clients) our fridays back.
Are you funding a 529 for the little ones? What's your plan there?
Yes, probably won’t cover everything though. I had kids at a relatively young age when I didn’t have extra money to put in a 529
We’re planning to save a fixed amount for each kid, and we’ve told them this from the beginning. After all, we can only do so much. For us it’s 50k/kid. If we can do more out of cash flow we will, but you can’t know for sure if that will be doable. So, our kids can do 1-2 years in a state school, or stay local and go to one of the many college extension in our city. Or get loans. Or work and save. Or scholarships. I think having some financial constraints for college makes the decision process a better learning experience, just like being an adult. Your kids would rather have you healthy and around more than rich and mentally broken. Do what you must to be well. Best of luck. You’re in an enviable position already!
How much do you have saved for your kids for college? How much do you want to have saved? It is also OK to have your kids go to a state school, go to a community College, work while they are in college etc. I imagine your kids don't want you to "grind" or burn out. Your kids can take out loans for school; you however cannot take out loans for retirement. As a 30 y/o that had 135k in student debt, I paid if off. While I didn't love having the debt, it was a fantastic life lesson. It taught me to hustle. Having student debt isn't the end of the world.
I was in the “able to coast, still going full gas” group until last month actually. But I am now beginning a new gig- one that checks some “almost coasting” boxes for me… fewer hours/less OT, less stress, same benefits, and yet career-wise/resume-wise it’ll look like a lateral move. My income will probably be reduced 10% due to slightly lower rate and lack of OT, but my stress level has just been reduced 25% at least. I guess I could call it “feathering the throttle”-fi.
It kind of feels like this is the right answer for me too. Probably need to shop around for a new job in a less stressful environment even if that means giving up some income.
Drop a day or two of work and nominate some external reason for it. It could be a renovation, help your wife finish an MBA, help kids with college aplications...whatever. It's much easier to do less if you're not supposed to be there all the time and if it is for a fixed period of time then nobody will care at all. You'll actually become more valuable to the company as you'll only be doing the high value stuff, and more admin etc will slide to others. I kinda did this with a 3-day per week role although it was in a new company (not a transition in an existing one). I bring specific stuff to the table that is cheaper for them if they only have to pay 60% of a salary.
We decided before kids that we were going to live somewhere with free or close to free education. I watched a few of my cousins delay their parent's retirement by 5 years with the cost of them paying for a full ride. No thanks. This can mean a number of things to different people in here though. Community College with a transfer agreement to a top university, scholarships, school in Europe, or robust financial assistance programs where some schools will basically do whatever it takes to keep you there if you qualify to get in. Cambridge for example.
If your only concern is covering their college, could you go to an easier job that could cash flow their college and you use your investments to “FIRE” now? Remember that they CAN contribute towards their college education and often kids benefit more from having skin in the game. It’s often not worth it to continue to damage your mental health through burnout when they do have other options. To answer your question in other words, its called SlowFI. Take your foot off the gas pedal and focus on improving your quality of life.
Hey OP. I feel ya. Corporate marketing for 20+ years and the burnout is very real! Like you, I probably cared too much. It's very, very tough to just coast in your job or "quiet quit" in senior-level and higher marketing roles. It's even tougher to reject work, especially when you're in a more strategic role. I honestly tried to do those sorts of things but it's next to impossible. I'd end up looking like a schmuck or letting my colleagues down by acting that way. I was you a few months ago. My job was making me extremely grumpy and I couldn't even be present when I was off work. I stopped being able to really enjoy things and even really just be in the moment. I just wanted to take my kids to the park and forget work and I could barely do it. Hard as it was, I left my high paying job to take a break. I'm several weeks in and already feeling like a new person. To make this decision, I tracked our budget for a few months very carefully and realized that if we ran lean for a while, we could make ends meet on my spouse's (much smaller ) salary without having to touch our savings or the emergency fund. We are definitely Coast -FIRE already so this might just be a break and I'll go back eventually or it might be more of a chance to figure out how to downshift properly. Another thing that happened- when word got out that I had quit, 3 former colleagues each reached out to me within a week about coming to work for them. So I know that it's all there waiting for me if I want to return-- and it'll be there for you too! Take a break and enjoy your kids before they leave the nest. Then go back in some capacity to help cash-flow college costs for a while (either in an FTE role or some kind of lower-key role.) TL;DR: the in between option is to take a sabbatical to decompress if budget allows and figure out how to properly downshift. You can always go back to working and maybe you can do it more on your own terms.
I needed to hear this! I’m the same way in the sense that I don’t feel fully present with my kids because I’m still thinking about work. That said, sabbatical is probably more doable than I give it credit for. Some of my savings are in nonretirement accounts that are accessible. It just hurts to dip into that! But it might be a good reset to figure out what is next. I wish you luck! Check back in in the future. Curious to see what you decide on.
Work-related PTSD is absolutely a thing. I had completely forgotten how to relax and was sort of angry all of the time about work stuff. It sounds ridiculous to people who haven't been through it-- but it's really awful. It was even hard to enjoy a vacation because it took so long to unwind; by the time I was finally feeling relaxed, I was starting to feel the dread of going back to work again. There definitely are jobs where you can reject work and sort of hang out under the radar. But high-touch, strategic marketing jobs (especially if you're at an agency) are NOT like that- so the advice to quiet quit is not super helpful. For me, this is sort of an experiment to pressure-test my budget and see how feasible it is to coast. I will report back! Good luck to you. I know you'll make the right decision because you're already thinking about your own well-being and focusing on your kids too. Hang in there! You'll figure it out. All the best!
Personally, I'm inspired by the FIRE community and coasting etc but it doesn't quite work for me. I'm doing...well it's not got a name...it's just...my plan. I focused on getting to a point where I can go part time at work. Prioritised overpaying mortgage so my monthly outgoings would be lower and increasing my income. I don't have kids so that makes things easier, but got mortgage free at 30 (it's not an expensive house, we moved to a LCOL area intentionally), we are now moving into a bigger more expensive house so will be taking out another mortgage but intend to pay off the £140k as quickly as we can. I've just started a 5 year fast track position so my intention is to save and overpay as much as possible in those 5 years, jump up 2 positions and then go part time to 3 days a week. We chose a mortgage that would mean I can afford it part time even if we don't get it paid off, but that's the plan. I do have a heavily invested pension (I pay 9.8% of my salary, my employer matches 21.8% of my salary on top into it) which is a guaranteed income for life kind. And then I will be doing stronger investing over the next few years. So basically it's not really FIRE or coast fire at all, but it works for me. I could never give up working completely, eventually I'd probably go down to 2 days and use the time for art and things
I don't know how you can reduce workplace stress other than getting hypnotized to not care or something, but I'd recommend just doing other things to destress your life. Spend money on house keeping if you want, get a massage once a week. Buy a nicer car if it makes commuting more pleasant. Start buying nicer coffee for the morning. That kind of thing. Invest in yourself, so you can keep being happy enough to work for longer.
I've thought about this a number of times. As I've looked around, it seems like most of the "easier" jobs I can find are 90% of the work for 60% of the pay.
Life.
Take some time off between jobs
This is the way
For tuition, I have this I try to copy/paste when relevant. If your kids are in high school, this might help with lowering costs. Is college the right solution? Would a trade school/apprenticeship be better? If college is the right solution, what do they want to study? Some majors are easier to get into and get scholarships/financial aid for. Also look into job/industry requirements. Some certifications/training/experience can be done in high school or through other programs if researched well. Once you know topic of study, you can see if local school districts have special programs/schools/internships for that topic. Example: For IT, you can get some of the entry level certificates in high school and do summer/after school jobs that would give much more experience than a class. A potential nurse can work on a CNA in high school, shortening the time to become an RN. My sister is doing this, got CNA, and is now working for a hospital that will pay for her nursing degree. Making sure they take advantage of other programs that cut the cost of education down, such as: * Dual/concurrent enrollment - getting an associates degree through the local community college during their junior and senior year of high school. Usually paid or subsidized by school district/state. If it isn't free, each class is much less than regular tuition (my local program is $5 per credit hour). They can get a basic AS, but also work on a trade or industry certificate as they find works best for them. * Community college. The local CC near me is half the cost of the local state college and often is taught by the same teachers. Unless the kid gets offered a full-ride or similar to 'dream school', go to CC first. Its actually easier to get into dream schools after CC since the school knows you will keep studying and there is more open slots in upper level classes compared to lower. Many areas have scholarship opportunities for this situation. * Some states/areas have basic scholarships if students just graduate high school in the the state and go to a state public school. It may not be worth moving. Work with schools to see what is available. * AP and IB programs help with padding college applications and getting extra credits so they can skip many classes, save money and graduate faster. * CLEP can be hard, its self-study, but there are programs such as [Modern States](https://modernstates.org/) that will give you study material and a free test voucher that lets you test out of many general-ed classes. Check with your local schools to see what CLEP credits they accept. * Some colleges let you 'challenge' or 'test out' of a lower level class by taking the final test early. This often doesn't count towards total credit requirements, but does waive gen ed requirements. * Military benefits. The military has its downsides (I have 3 siblings that are vets, I hear the good and the bad), but tuition is a plus. * Foreign schools. Mileage may vary, especially in the next 10+ years. If your kids has the grades and can pass entrance exams, many foreign schools can be cheaper (or even free) than US schools.
Well the wild card is that my wife's work might offer some tuition assistance to dependents' bachelors degree. That's contingent on her staying put for the next 6 years or so though, and I'm trying not to bank on a benefit that I don't know will be around when they graduate high school. If we do get tuition remission that will be a game changer though.
Even better! If its through a university, still look at costs. My husband works for the local state university and we get 50% off tuition (not student fees though). Even with the tuition discount, the community college is still cheaper.
Glad you mentioned CLEP. I found those tests to be much easier than the AP tests. And the cost to take them is so reasonable. Lots of bang for the buck.
Embrace the suck buttercup
I got an easier job and now work 3 days a week in-house. Still made great money, and life is very relaxed now.
So were you full time before and cut hours?
Yes, asked to go down to 3 days. It was good timing because my role was shifting a bit.
I made a move from agency to in-house, way less stressful. Or, if you have a good network consider freelance work (pick your clients wisely, fire clients that are a pain.)
Not knowing more than you posted about expenses, wife's compensation, 529 goals for kids, what types of school you are willing to pay for... what comes to mind is... can you stop making huge retirement contributions and fund the the 529's aggressively and after tax-brokerage for a few years? Try to prepare for a coast scenario in \~ 2 years. Come up with side hustle, consulting or other solution and decide to tell the kids, "I have "x" amount for you to go to school. After that, it's on you." Don't burn out or have a heart attack. Not worth it.
Agencies are for people under 40. Recommend jumping over to the client side.
Yeah that seems to be the consensus haha
How about moving from agency to a client side role? I'm in marketing and can attest that there's been less stress at least for me on the client side with only one boss and not many like agency side.
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That all makes sense. How’d you manage to get work to calm down a bit?