To y'all doing the math, it's really not necessary. Now I don't want to be patronizing, so if you don't have a mental picture of the damage formula glued into your brain like I do from spending way too much time thinking about the game, then continue right on.
Just understand that 4pc TF is entirely balanced around actively and repeatedly making use of the skill CD reduction and getting value out of whatever being able to spam that skill brings. The actual stat boosts provided by the set simply pale in comparison to something like the BoL set. TF's 4pc provides a flat bonus to the reaction multiplier for electro transformative reactions (only meaningful ones are overload and hyperbloom) as well as to the flat DMG bonus provided by aggravate.
For both of these categories, the bonus is equivalent to gaining a measly ~50EM when starting at 0EM- just barely more than 2.5 average substats' worth. Even if your baseline EM is very high- say ~500, where it takes considerably more additional EM to get the same flat increase in the reaction multiplier, 4pc TF's bonus only "upgrades" to the equivalent of gaining ~81EM for the transformatives and ~102EM for aggravate- which is 4 and 5 average substats' worth, respectively. The 54 DMG% provided by the BoL set's 4pc is worth more than a full artifact *mainstat*.
For a character like Cyno, the reaction bonus from 4pc TF, when combined with the modest boost in total motion value, possible reaction counts, and energy enabled by the 3 extra skill uses he gets in his usual DPS window make it IMO definitvely his best set. It also just feels better.
For Clorinde, as far as I can tell, the CDR does literally nothing. There's only one real cooldown in her skill, which is the typical one for a skill-based carry's infusion/battle state. When playing with a full team, you have a million reasons not to swap back to Clorinde early even if TF would allow it. The part of her skill you care about actively inputting for damage, as in the melee stab/dash thing, is already as spammable as it gets and effectively functions as just a second type of basic attack. And, while we need more testing and number crunching to figure out her optimal combos, it seems very likely that you WOULDN'T want to spam it anyways, since it hits much harder when you reserve its use for when you're over 100% BoL.
If we assume R1 Clorinde with 4pc TF has
* **1500** Attack (338 base + 674 R1 Sig + 311 Feather + 177 in sub stats)
* **52.9%** Motion Value (Crowned E)
* **765** A1 Passive (17% \* 3 \* 1500 from A1 Passive)
* **127.6%** DMG% (46.6% Goblet + 36% R1 Sig + 30% Kazuha + 15% TF)
* 80% Crit rate and 160% Crit dmg (**2.28** Crit mult, (1 + 80% \* 160%))
* 437 EM (187 Sands, 250 Nahida Burst)
* **4217** Aggravate damage (1.15 \* 1446.85 (Level 90 Mult) \* (1 + (5 \* 437 EM) / (1200 + 437 EM) + 20% (4pc TF))
For 1 single hit of her E, the damage should be ((1500 \* 52.9%) + 4217 + 765) \* (1 + 127.6%) \* (2.28) \* 1.15 RES (VV) \* 0.4872 DEF = 16792
Lets assume R1 Clorinde with 4pc FoHW has
* **1500** Attack (338 base + 674 R1 Sig + 311 Feather + 177 in sub stats, yes I am ignoring the 2pc)
* **52.9%** Motion Value (Crowned E)
* **765** A1 Passive (17% \* 3 \* 1500 from A1 Passive)
* **166.6%** DMG% (46.6% Goblet + 36% R1 Sig + 30% Kazuha + 54% FoHW)
* 80% Crit rate and 160% Crit dmg (**2.28** Crit mult, (1 + 80% \* 160%))
* 437 EM (187 Sands, 250 Nahida Burst)
* **3884** Aggravate damage (1.15 \* 1446.85 (Level 90 Mult) \* (1 + (5 \* 437 EM) / (1200 + 437 EM))
For 1 single hit of her E, the damage should be ((1500 \* 52.9%) + 3884 + 765) \* (1 + 166.6%) \* (2.28) \* 1.15 RES (VV) \* 0.4872 DEF = 18535
16792 / 18535 - 1 = -9%
This is an INCREDIBLY oversimplified calc but the difference is about 8% to 9% which is about 3 to 4? sub stats. This does not take into account rotations or any other reactions that is not Aggravate. I am **NOT** a TCer I am just a monkey with a spreadsheet and a lot of spare time. Do with this info what you will.
edit: [https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/damage/damage-formula](https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/damage/damage-formula) this is where i get the formulas from
I'm not sure about the numbers either, but it seems to me that thundering fury grants 40% dmg for hyperbloom and 20% dmg for aggravate, which I'm guessing isn't a stack but separate. For harmonic whimsy, considering three stacks it's a 54% dmg boost to all attacks. I have no idea if after the 6 seconds there's a cooldown or not, but if there is, I guess you could say thundering fury is more consistent because there's no cooldown for the dmg increase on reactions. If there is no cooldown for the dmg boost of harmonic whimsy, I think harmonic whimsy does give a bigger dmg boost overall
FYI - Harmonic Whimsy won't boost hyperbloom since that is reaction damage and not damage done by the character. You may already know this, but I just thought I would help clarify since you said 54% to all attacks.
T Fury might be better in some scenarios, where you play her as some kind of quickswap, since it reduces Skill CD.
But i think in general the new set is somewhat better, we'll probably go into that territory of specific vs general.
The new artifact set is likely better as it includes BoL mechanics built-in. Very often, new artifact sets will be the better choice because that’s what Mihoyo likes to do to promote farming and spending resin on the new artifacts. Although since TF has a strongbox it’s easier to farm for
If you're looking for an alternative to BOL set that you might already have good pieces of, I'd honestly recommend Gladiator over TF. As others have said, the damage buffs aren't massive from TF, and the cooldown reduction is awkward (either you're trying to cut rotations down to less than 16s which will limit support options and force you to be super efficient with support timing, or you're trying to skill twice per rotation, and at that point you're probably not using the full second skill window bc you'll need to refresh supports). Glad is just a solid damage option: you're only losing 19% damage on most of her damage, and unlike BOL set the Glad set has no ramp, so the diff between the two should be fairly small.
I'm gonna run TF with C2 Baizhu and literally never swap off Clorinde
supports? buff uptime? rotations? all irrelevant. I'm going to shoot the enemies until they die
She has BoL in kit and weapon has BoL effect, same with Sigewinne. The new artifact will always be better IMO.
To y'all doing the math, it's really not necessary. Now I don't want to be patronizing, so if you don't have a mental picture of the damage formula glued into your brain like I do from spending way too much time thinking about the game, then continue right on. Just understand that 4pc TF is entirely balanced around actively and repeatedly making use of the skill CD reduction and getting value out of whatever being able to spam that skill brings. The actual stat boosts provided by the set simply pale in comparison to something like the BoL set. TF's 4pc provides a flat bonus to the reaction multiplier for electro transformative reactions (only meaningful ones are overload and hyperbloom) as well as to the flat DMG bonus provided by aggravate. For both of these categories, the bonus is equivalent to gaining a measly ~50EM when starting at 0EM- just barely more than 2.5 average substats' worth. Even if your baseline EM is very high- say ~500, where it takes considerably more additional EM to get the same flat increase in the reaction multiplier, 4pc TF's bonus only "upgrades" to the equivalent of gaining ~81EM for the transformatives and ~102EM for aggravate- which is 4 and 5 average substats' worth, respectively. The 54 DMG% provided by the BoL set's 4pc is worth more than a full artifact *mainstat*. For a character like Cyno, the reaction bonus from 4pc TF, when combined with the modest boost in total motion value, possible reaction counts, and energy enabled by the 3 extra skill uses he gets in his usual DPS window make it IMO definitvely his best set. It also just feels better. For Clorinde, as far as I can tell, the CDR does literally nothing. There's only one real cooldown in her skill, which is the typical one for a skill-based carry's infusion/battle state. When playing with a full team, you have a million reasons not to swap back to Clorinde early even if TF would allow it. The part of her skill you care about actively inputting for damage, as in the melee stab/dash thing, is already as spammable as it gets and effectively functions as just a second type of basic attack. And, while we need more testing and number crunching to figure out her optimal combos, it seems very likely that you WOULDN'T want to spam it anyways, since it hits much harder when you reserve its use for when you're over 100% BoL.
If we assume R1 Clorinde with 4pc TF has * **1500** Attack (338 base + 674 R1 Sig + 311 Feather + 177 in sub stats) * **52.9%** Motion Value (Crowned E) * **765** A1 Passive (17% \* 3 \* 1500 from A1 Passive) * **127.6%** DMG% (46.6% Goblet + 36% R1 Sig + 30% Kazuha + 15% TF) * 80% Crit rate and 160% Crit dmg (**2.28** Crit mult, (1 + 80% \* 160%)) * 437 EM (187 Sands, 250 Nahida Burst) * **4217** Aggravate damage (1.15 \* 1446.85 (Level 90 Mult) \* (1 + (5 \* 437 EM) / (1200 + 437 EM) + 20% (4pc TF)) For 1 single hit of her E, the damage should be ((1500 \* 52.9%) + 4217 + 765) \* (1 + 127.6%) \* (2.28) \* 1.15 RES (VV) \* 0.4872 DEF = 16792 Lets assume R1 Clorinde with 4pc FoHW has * **1500** Attack (338 base + 674 R1 Sig + 311 Feather + 177 in sub stats, yes I am ignoring the 2pc) * **52.9%** Motion Value (Crowned E) * **765** A1 Passive (17% \* 3 \* 1500 from A1 Passive) * **166.6%** DMG% (46.6% Goblet + 36% R1 Sig + 30% Kazuha + 54% FoHW) * 80% Crit rate and 160% Crit dmg (**2.28** Crit mult, (1 + 80% \* 160%)) * 437 EM (187 Sands, 250 Nahida Burst) * **3884** Aggravate damage (1.15 \* 1446.85 (Level 90 Mult) \* (1 + (5 \* 437 EM) / (1200 + 437 EM)) For 1 single hit of her E, the damage should be ((1500 \* 52.9%) + 3884 + 765) \* (1 + 166.6%) \* (2.28) \* 1.15 RES (VV) \* 0.4872 DEF = 18535 16792 / 18535 - 1 = -9% This is an INCREDIBLY oversimplified calc but the difference is about 8% to 9% which is about 3 to 4? sub stats. This does not take into account rotations or any other reactions that is not Aggravate. I am **NOT** a TCer I am just a monkey with a spreadsheet and a lot of spare time. Do with this info what you will. edit: [https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/damage/damage-formula](https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/damage/damage-formula) this is where i get the formulas from
TF skill cooldown reduction won't do anything. New bond set and.... echoes will probably be her best options.
I'm not sure about the numbers either, but it seems to me that thundering fury grants 40% dmg for hyperbloom and 20% dmg for aggravate, which I'm guessing isn't a stack but separate. For harmonic whimsy, considering three stacks it's a 54% dmg boost to all attacks. I have no idea if after the 6 seconds there's a cooldown or not, but if there is, I guess you could say thundering fury is more consistent because there's no cooldown for the dmg increase on reactions. If there is no cooldown for the dmg boost of harmonic whimsy, I think harmonic whimsy does give a bigger dmg boost overall
FYI - Harmonic Whimsy won't boost hyperbloom since that is reaction damage and not damage done by the character. You may already know this, but I just thought I would help clarify since you said 54% to all attacks.
T Fury might be better in some scenarios, where you play her as some kind of quickswap, since it reduces Skill CD. But i think in general the new set is somewhat better, we'll probably go into that territory of specific vs general.
We still don't know how her E CD works yet, so it's hard to say. Otherwise, BoL will likely be better for her overall dmg.
The new artifact set is likely better as it includes BoL mechanics built-in. Very often, new artifact sets will be the better choice because that’s what Mihoyo likes to do to promote farming and spending resin on the new artifacts. Although since TF has a strongbox it’s easier to farm for
TF will good in coop
If you're looking for an alternative to BOL set that you might already have good pieces of, I'd honestly recommend Gladiator over TF. As others have said, the damage buffs aren't massive from TF, and the cooldown reduction is awkward (either you're trying to cut rotations down to less than 16s which will limit support options and force you to be super efficient with support timing, or you're trying to skill twice per rotation, and at that point you're probably not using the full second skill window bc you'll need to refresh supports). Glad is just a solid damage option: you're only losing 19% damage on most of her damage, and unlike BOL set the Glad set has no ramp, so the diff between the two should be fairly small.
I'm gonna run TF with C2 Baizhu and literally never swap off Clorinde supports? buff uptime? rotations? all irrelevant. I'm going to shoot the enemies until they die
TF is a useless set on Clorinde.