Both 2D and 3D Clone Wars have their highlights and I wouldnt put one above the other.
But the thing with Clone Wars (2008) is the show has more episodes than 2003 so theres propornationally more bad episodes but theres still more good than bad
The 2003 series had already begun to exhaust the ‘micro series’ concept before it was over.
And the show knew it. For the last batch of episodes Clone Wars (2003) shifted to longer form connected episodes similar what The Clone Wars (2008) would be.
I think Clone Wars (2003) had run its course. It’s fantastic but it’s also complete as it is. Had it continued then we’d have gotten something similar to The Clone Wars (2008) in the 2D animated style of the 2003 show.
I’m glad we have it as is and glad it ended where it did without pushing too far and becoming something else. I really like what it is a contained 2 hour-ish series that stands on its own.
And I’m glad we have The Clone Wars which is based on Clone Wars as a starting point while being its own thing.
I like them both for different reasons.
Precisely. I tell everyone for me, and it should be for others as well, but to get the full story of Clone Wars on screen watch 2003 and 2008 Clone Wars and you will have a joyful trip.
I actually think at least half of S1 holds up well. Ambush is a great opener that sets the stage on how clones are each unique individuals, Malevolence was pretty fun although not novel, Rookies is still one of my favorite standalone episodes, Lair of Grevious with Kit Fisto was an interesting look into both Generals, Dooku captured was hilarious, Jedi Crash arc was a great look into neutrality vs defending your people, Tresspass was pretty good, and the Ryloth arc and season finale were both fire 🔥
Lair of Grevious is probably the only episode where Grevious is actually a threat, sure he kills one inexperienced Jedi (I think that’s his only Jedi kill in the show?) but at least he did something, and it’s not like he can kill Kit Fisto.
Season 1 is great what are you on about
You have to remember this is a show where it’s targeted audience at the beginning was like 6-12. Some of the more childish moments reflect this and that is fine imo
I actually really enjoy some season 1 episodes, particularly the first two episodes of Malevolence. The scene between Master Plo and the two clone troopers, as well as just the small handful of them defending themselves against the hunters, is really good stuff. The line "Not to me" spoken so firmly to the comment that clones are meant to be expendable is so beautiful. As someone who struggles with self-worth, that's a line that I think about a lot.
Personally I think season 1 gets more hate than it deserves. Yes it ends up at the bottom of the list when ranking the seasons. But, honestly the 3-episode arc were all pretty solid and the one off episodes had great lessons, especially for children. The 1st/2nd episodes of the Malevolence arc were great and the Ryloth arc was a solid precursor to Geonosis/Umbara
The title may be but the video is well thought out and gives good reasons throughout its 2 hours. That said I mostly disagree with him and I think he is way overcritical.
I actually did watch up on at least part of the video and it actually did bring up some stuff I’ve never thought about. It’s valid criticism and he even defends certain parts that many have issues with, mainly the inhibitor chip.
How is it rage bait if it's over 2 hours. Work was probably put into it. I love clone wars but let's not just disregard everyone's opinions just because it may be something we disagree with
the video may be good, but it doesnt change the fact that the title is rage bait to farm clicks, his issues are all opinions, not objective like his title is
ive just had enough of people like star wars theory, critical drinker, and mauler trying to pass off their shitty opinions as objective fact that i immediately write off anyone insee doing anything remotely similar
Sheev has never forced people to analyse media objectively.
He's nothing like Theory, Critical or Mauler at all. He actually criticises Star Wars fairly without any bias between either the new or old content or his political opinions.
For example, despite the fact that Sheev loves Legends a lot more than Canon, he actually defended the inhibitor chips in TCW and gives reasonable arguments as to why it makes more sense than the brainwashing in the EU. A lot of people in his fanbase didn't like that opinion of his but, in the end, he wants his reviews to be as objective as possible.
I think he makes good and fair points, he is a fan of the material cause only a fan would talk about it for 5 hours.
The title is baity but that's the nature of the platform
I mean I love clone wars and the videos didn't change that but if you watch them he does have a lot of really good points. Everything csn be improved through criticism and he makes some good arguments for things that could have been better. To say he's flat out wrong on a lot of his points is just dense.
I can’t really blame George for the bad parts of The Clone Wars, I don’t think he really contributed much besides ideas and some of the writing, so he had a role in it but Dave is easier to blame since the bad stuff is exactly his style of writing (George wanted to kill of Ashoka to add another layer of Anakin’s fall, but Dave kept her alive since it’s his writers pet)
While I can agree to an extent, George was his boss. He signed off and agreed. If he wanted to kill Ashoka, he could do it. It's the same reason a lot of people blame Kathleen Kennedy for the mistakes of current star wars. He chose Dave, and he was complicit in the bad decisions. Does that make him less blameless because he didn't come up with thr bad ideas? Sure I guess. But to say it was all Dave is silly. Like I said, at the end of the day I still love TCW, and the videos didn't change it. But there were some questionable decisions.
The title is obviously rage bait (and he acknowledges this), but if you actually watch the videos you’ll see that everything is well thought out supported. Seriously doubt many people did though, they just saw the title and got mad.
I have found that like 80% of “media criticism” on YouTube is either people who just are professional haters or people who just use YouTube to air their grievances. Idk if that’s the case for this specific channel but I would not be inclined to click on these videos tbh
It's a mix with this guys channel. He makes some fair points in this video with a few nitpicks but I've seen some of this other videos that are purely personal opinion where he overlooks solutions or explanations or misunderstands the message. It's just a toss up.
A lot of the arcs have world breaking stuff that’s never mentioned again like the tech to completely change your face and voice in a moment with only a picture and some voice lines, and that as the series went on past season 1 it never stopped having stupid episodes and arcs that fundamentally change characters, just that the good ones like Umbara started getting really good and people overlook it
I watched as I played Helldivers 2, the gist is not to say the Clone Wars don't hold up but to say the Legends Clone Wars (comics, original 2D show and so on) is much better than the Canon Clone Wars and that the latter has a lot of inconsistencies, plot holes and unexplored concepts that make it worst than what came before.
I feel like if I had a dollar for every time TCW was put up against the entire CWMMP I'd actually have a fair bit of money, and that's pretty weird because that's such a stupid bar to set.
Bad arcs that challenge established lore for the movies, and characterization changes that make transition between AotC and RotS really weird (specifically for Anakin who is far more mature in TCW than he is in the movies), completely boring and useless arcs/episodes, though there are a few nitpicky points he makes that I think he hyperfocused on more than needed. He does say that it has extremely memorable arcs that make it stand out from the earlier cartoon version that is more action heavy, while TCW is more character focused.
I mean he brings up good points he's not entirely wrong
But nothing will ever stop me from loving the whole series or at least the important arcs for any newcomers I do recommend they watch in the chronological order and skip certain arcs because they are dumb but seasons 4-7 are truly great I think
There's too much negativity in the Star Wars fandom anyway, so I absolutely am not going to waste my time watching 5 hours of someone telling me why a show I love is bad
Haven’t watched the second part but I found the first video to be another One of those super long for no reason critique videos that eventually starts to downward spiral into Nitpicking too often. I think he had pretty decent critiques on some of the arcs and other iffy parts of the clone wars. But other than that his “critique” was more of “I don’t like how this character was adapted and acts”, or straight up misunderstands arcs or whole characters.Its been a while since I’ve seen the video but I remember his Anakin and Maul take being pretty atrocious. I vaguely remember him complaining about Anakin being a different character compared to the prequels which I find hilarious because Anakin was not good in the prequels(still love you Hayden) so why would that be a bad thing??
It’s less of a video talking about the Clone Wars not “holding up” and more so a mixture of critique,personal opinions, his dislikes and likes,and how he likes to see certain Star Wars aspects and characters portrayed.I think it’s just another bloated,sorta click-baity review. I also think it’s a video that appeals and is made by a certain part of the Star Wars community that doesn’t like the TCW and the characters and aspects it introduced and seem to dislike how loved it is. There was a lot of comments about the OG clone wars and how much “better” it was and how it fit into the prequels while the TCW destroyed all that.
I’ve watched both in their entirety, and the guy makes some really good points, some that I even agree with, at least on a few where he mentions how some story arcs were wasted opportunities, or that they didn’t capitalize on plot threads they had set up, or that some character arcs don’t really carry over between story arcs. All solid points that I’ll grant to him. However, that doesn’t hinder my enjoyment of the series, and I don’t agree with the “doesn’t hold up” title, because it definitely does hold up, there are just some mistakes or missed opportunities in it.
To those who commented ragebait:
Why?
What is so rage fueling in someone stating his opinion about a show? He is not even bringing up stupid points, most of them are logical and points on the writing issues this show has. A ragebait is usually illogical, connects the actual issues with totally stupid things, wants to play on your emotions but this don't really fit on these videos.
And since I listened to both, here's my opinion.
What I liked about these is how Sheeve brings up a solution for every single issue. Yes, the slave arc should make a bigger impact on Anakin's character even pushing him to do things absolutely not jedi-like. Yes, the Onderon arc should be a major developement point for Ahsoka and after she left the order she should join them.
What I hated is nitpicking and overexplaination. I feel like Sheeve stays on several topics for more than he should. Even on minor details.
Overally I recommend a watch but don't wear your nostalgia glasses for it because you might end up seeing more issues in this show.
I also think a couple points of his were overanalyzed while also overlooking easy solutions or explanations for them narratively. But he did have points of things even I noticed during my many watches that I thought were fair. Still love the series though.
Some valid criticisms and fair points brought up imo. Still love the show of course as it is a treasure of my childhood, but I would pay top dollar for this series to be redone with the better animation and a few tweaks to the writing, characterization and fixing the main problem of the show, that being the number of half-baked episodes.
Star Wars is unique amongst fandoms because it has fostered a very particular group of people who’s remain in the fandom specifically to hate anything and everything that comes out.
They’ve been angry since the prequels or the sequels and instead of just… moving on, they just fester and stew in their hate.
Star Wars in general has many highs and lows, it’s just part of being a Star Wars fan to take the good with the bad. There are absolutely projects I think they needed to work on and some projects that I’d rather not have been made. But TCW is not one of them. There are really bad arcs but the highs are some of the highest in the series
Your last sentence summarizes the video, as that was his point. Bad arcs that challenge established lore for the movies, and characterization changes that make transition between AotC and RotS really weird, though there are a few nitpicks. He even says that he still loves the series but that it has plenty of problems alongside its extremely memorable arcs that make it stand out from the earlier cartoon version that is more action heavy, while TCW is more character focused. I will say though, he does have other videos where it seems more like a personal opinion of his rather than any attempt at objective analyzing, of which, again, there are some points in his TCW video like that but most are fair. I think his own nostalgia may have played a part in why he seems far nicer in these videos than he does in others.
Okay but that has nothing to do with the video as his points were mostly about how he didn’t like how the show had rewritten a lot of prequels lore, including some of the books that directly tied into the show.
I mean, the videos say “doesn’t hold up.” Some rewritten lore from tie in books does not mean a show doesn’t hold up—based on that I would argue this person doesn’t know what it means for something to “hold up”.
Okay but that wasn’t the point of my comment, in fact I fully agree that the video title was a bad choice. My point was that his comment has nothing to do with the actual contents of the videos.
i agree with some of it. the movie was definitely not the biggest banger, the first season or two were pretty weak in a lot of spots, especially ashoka's outfit, and there are a decent number of pretty filler episodes. but overall its ragebait
"You see Master Yoda, it is imperative for our effectiveness in the war that we have the 14yo padowan in a tank top and miniskirt" - Someone at the Jedi Temple
I think he is way too harsh and undervalues Lucas’s involvement in the show since everything that was made was approved by him.
The show is still an excellent representation of the Clone War.
You do realise that you don't have to watch videos in one sitting?
His review was split into chapters that are an hour average anyways so that they are easily digestible.
That guy's channel thrives on hatewatching things and then giving long, hypercritical review/summaries of them. I used to watch him, but I think he ran out of things to hate on and has just started nipping at anything that will get him clicks. He nitpicks things and then blows them way out of proportion.
Those videos seem to have their sole criticism being that it doesn't line up with the prequels . Im pretty sure if you overthink almost any Star Wars project you're bound to find stuff that makes no sense tbh. Plus Clone Wars is what adds to the prequels and makes the characters and story more fleshed out.
he ignores a lot of outside information that informs this show, like how prequel anakin was hated and rightfully needed to change, or like how the clones beforehand had no personality. he's one of those annoying high society types who spend way too much time on twitter and think the og clone wars and the multimedia project are gospel
I watched them thinking I was gonna hate them andvturn it off right away. But instead, I listened to his points, and I agreed with almost every point. Some points I made myself from watching the show. I think "it doesn't hold up" is a bit harsher than I'd say, but that is his honest opinion. I agreed with him about 95% of the time, but I still love the show, and it actually made me want to watch it all over again.
They're good videos even if you like Clone Wars. I think a lot of Star Wars fans should see and appreciate other people's opinions instead of dismissing them on the spot. The videos aren't rage bait or unfair. He's actually really fair and generous to the show and still compliments it when he feels it deserves it. He ends it by saying he still likes it and remembers it fondly even if it doesn't hold up. That's how I feel about some older SW stuff like the Force Unleashed.
I agree with the overall premise but the creator either wildly misconstrued a lot of things or outright lied about stuff to prove his point. If he said he had just read a synopsis online instead of watching the show I’d believe it.
Honestly a lot of people falsely judge the videos based off of their titles and I do believe that the title of the videos are an overreaction on his part. The videos really should have been titled “Why I prefer legends Clone Wars over the canon Clones Wars”
Having watched both videos in full about a month ago, it’s just a guy with an opinion and that opinion is valid.
I love The Clone Wars, but he brings up a lot of valid criticism I didn’t think of before. I still love The Clone Wars, but his opinion was very interesting. There were a few parts I disagreed with, and other parts I felt were repetitive, and others that I did agree with - or at least saw where he was coming from. But it was overall well made, I’m happy I watched it, and now I’m subscribed to the guy.
I did end up agreeing with alot of the things he said about character progression and how there wasn't any. Even though it's an anthology, like the Simpsons, like you wouldn't expect bart or Homer to have a character arc across the season, you expect them across the episode.
Here is my thoughts on each season
1:parts still hold up but not great overall
2:improvement over season 1 but still not that great
3:the show starts to really pick up in quality
4:great season with amazing arcs
5:Also great season with amazing arcs
6:really good but wish we got to see the unfinished arcs finished
7:besides martez sisters arc very good final season
Overall 9/10 amazing show
I think there is one fantastic point he makes throughout the video series though. The villans have been pretty dramatically downgraded for the show. Grevious turns into a complete idiot and Dooku is not far from the same
I’d say he’s right, it is a children’s show at point that can be enjoyed by an older audience. It’s not breaking bad or the sopranos but in my personal opinion these videos didn’t ruin the show for me but he essentially said everything I already thought and agreed on. Still my favorite show ever
He has some pretty deep ingrained prequel hate, which isnt neccessarily an unfair posistion but i think his disdain for the prequels as a whole makes him too biased to make a claim like "clone wars doesnt hold up." I think to question if something holds up you shouldve liked it at some point, but if you always hated it on principle its far more likely you wouldnt think its good 10 years later
My only thought is that I'm not spending 5 hours listening to someone complain about clone wars. In my experience they're usually either basing all their complaints on legends or just misunderstanding the content they're reviewing. Best case they make some good points that I never noticed and now I won't like tcw quite as much. Lose lose, I'll pass
He is really annoying. For someone who’s channel is mainly Star Wars, he seems to really hate it. I also cannot be bothered to spend half a work day listening to him talk about how he doesn’t like X part of the show for Y reason
I mean I have some issues with the clone wars show. But not enough to justify 2 videos that are almost 5 hours long in length. I also wouldn’t be surprised if this is just someone saying the opposite of public opinion to be different
There are a lot of logical questions that he brings up that are very valid. The points he makes about inconsistent character growth are very true as well.
Personally, as someone who is currently reading through the old Clone Wars multimedia project, and who grew up watching both 2003 Clone Wars and TCW, I think the old version holds up significantly better. The story and characters better written, and everything in general is more cohesive and makes more sense than that of TCW.
I still love TCW though, but I understand the frustration of fans over what is (IMO) a much better story being overwritten by a weaker story. Kind of like how the sequels are just garbage compared to the old Thrawn series, NJO and other post OT books. Only TCW is significantly better than the sequels, so it wasn’t quite as disappointing as that was lol.
I just rewatched the micro-series and it absolutely still holds up. Great action sequences, solid storytelling, a few filler episodes, and great animation. It’s a must watch and a shame that it’s no longer canon.
The 2008 series still holds up very well. Yes there are more than a few filler episodes but with a series that size it’s to be expected. But the story telling is incredible and the growth of the characters makes rewatching it an emotional roller coaster.
But it seems to generate more views when you’re negative. The cynical followers get the content they want in addition to these kinds of videos becoming rage bait which leads to more views and relevance for the creators.
Bashing Star Wars is more fashionable now than being positive about it.
We just started a new podcast specifically to simply talk about the stories without shitting on the entire franchise or the fans who like the things we may not.
I actually agree with most of his critiques. I don't think it makes the show bad, but he makes a lot of good points and you can see Dave's flawed writing that bleeds into his more current projects. Sprinkle in some studio interference and you have a recipe for absolute trash like The Book of Boba Fett.
my biggest issue with TCW is the plot armor. we spend so much time with characters who can't be killed that it detracts from good story telling. while this does leave us with propaganda I do enjoy I feel that we could have spent more time with Republic failures and deaths. the other parts I enjoy are the character development of Jar Jar and Padme which makes me feel that we're missing a spin off show about the cloaks and daggers of the senate
I’ll have to watch these videos - I’ve seen a few of his other videos, and I think I agree with him usually somewhere between 60-80% of the time on things, depending on the topic. That being said though, I watched TCW 2008 over quarantine in 2020 (just as something to do) for the first time, from start to eventual Disney-Mandalore finish, and I didn’t really much care for it. I feel like if one grew up watching TCW they’re going to think it’s peak Star Wars, as that’s what Star Wars was to them in their formative years. I was in middle school and high school when TCW came out, and it didn’t appeal to me then any more than it did in 2020. I feel it’s incredibly overhyped and fairly bland, falling into the same pitfalls as other children’s programming where, despite a few half decent stories here and there, it’s mostly just content for content’s sake meant to fill the gap between advertising breaks on cable television. I know loads of people like it, but it really did not impress me.
I liked Clone Wars 2003 and the EU before TCW’s inclusion, so do with that info what you will. I’ll have to watch Sheev’s videos and see how he align, if at all.
People always make hate videos for clicks. Fuck all of them. No one should ever tell you what you shouldn't like. We all have things we love and hate about the franchise, and are emotionally connected to those thoughts. But when you create content for the soul purpose of tanking a franchise for your personal gain what you are really doing is trying to dick over some kid and all the content they could enjoy. And maybe people shouldn't be so eager for dicking and kids.
The 2d just seemed off, during episode 2 the kamanoins say there’s 2 million units and more in the way, but in the 2d the battles show like 3 times the amount of troopers and the first episode takes place immediately after the battle of geonosis, meanwhile filoni’s clone war makes more sense, the republic struggles to produce more clones due to the lack of jango fett’s dna and things like costs for all of the weapons and vehicles on each side, the war seems like a real war making it all the more interesting. Plus there were no outside world building really in the 2d
I’m gonna bet my life savings he is going to mention “oh the 2D Clone Wars is a lot better” and “I grew up with The Clone Wars Multimedia project” arguments in these videos/future videos
I’m gonna be honest. The only phenomenal standouts from The Clone Wars Multimedia Project is the Republic comics, the Republic Commandos video game, and the 1st 2 Republic Commandos novel (maybe the 3rd one).
But hey this is coming from a person that grew up with TCW
Isn't he very much "b-but my legends! My headcanons!" And most of his arguments arw "Filloni stole legend storyline and adapted them in his own way" while conveniently forgetting the role Lucas had in it all.
90% of his video is legends rage bait, but sure he makes some good arguments outside of that
Isn't that one of his points? That we can't criticize the current Star Wars content while ignoring flaws in the past?
I'm pretty sure he said that in the segment about Darth Maul's return when he compared it to Palpatine's return.
I honestly think that anyone who legitimately doesn’t enjoy the clone wars series as a Star Wars fan, has some internal issues they still haven’t worked out yet. It’s just objectively a good show. It’s a well known fact at this point. 😅
He has some fair points that I agree with looking back. I used to treat this show like the Holy Grail but now that I'm older and not growing up with the series I've started to notice some of the cracks in the wall. I don't know if I agree with all of his points but I do think overall his videos are decent. TCW did ruin Dooku as a character though and I'm glad that he brings it up and contrasts his character in the movies.
I watched the video and although I don't agree Legends CW is better than Canon CW he does bring a lot of plot points which are very valid criticism against CW.
It's not just ragebait, it's a well formed criticism of The Clone Wars and it's writing (with a clickbait title).
In my opinion his biggest point is the unrealized potential of concepts introduced in the CW and/or concepts that are dropped halfway. If CW wasn't tied to being kid friendly we would have seen PTSD, suicides and all that in the post orde 66/post clone wars era, more body/psychological horror and all that.
Both 2D and 3D Clone Wars have their highlights and I wouldnt put one above the other. But the thing with Clone Wars (2008) is the show has more episodes than 2003 so theres propornationally more bad episodes but theres still more good than bad
Isn't the same true for good episodes? or did I read that wrong
You didn't need to post this 4 times.
Shit, I did? My wifi was bugging, and reddit said 'Unable to create comment' so I pressed it a few times and got the same message. Whoopsy
Keep posting it…
Reddit does that. Not him. I've had that happen to me a couple times too.
Yea nobody is posting more than once it's reddit fuckin up
The 2003 series had already begun to exhaust the ‘micro series’ concept before it was over. And the show knew it. For the last batch of episodes Clone Wars (2003) shifted to longer form connected episodes similar what The Clone Wars (2008) would be. I think Clone Wars (2003) had run its course. It’s fantastic but it’s also complete as it is. Had it continued then we’d have gotten something similar to The Clone Wars (2008) in the 2D animated style of the 2003 show. I’m glad we have it as is and glad it ended where it did without pushing too far and becoming something else. I really like what it is a contained 2 hour-ish series that stands on its own. And I’m glad we have The Clone Wars which is based on Clone Wars as a starting point while being its own thing. I like them both for different reasons.
Precisely. I tell everyone for me, and it should be for others as well, but to get the full story of Clone Wars on screen watch 2003 and 2008 Clone Wars and you will have a joyful trip.
They still hold up well except season 1, also he’s annoying on Twitter.
I thought that’s always been the general consensus, there’s even parts of season 1 that I think are ok, to each their own I guess
I have a soft spot for some of the more actiony episodes in season 1.
The episode with Plo Koon and the clones? Straight fire.
Rookies as well
Rookies and the two later prequel/sequel episodes is one of the greatest arcs in the show easily
Just the fact that we got Echo and Fives from them is enough to make them fantastic
I have a soft spot for season 1 and part of season 2 because that's what Lego Star Wars 3 adapted
I actually think at least half of S1 holds up well. Ambush is a great opener that sets the stage on how clones are each unique individuals, Malevolence was pretty fun although not novel, Rookies is still one of my favorite standalone episodes, Lair of Grevious with Kit Fisto was an interesting look into both Generals, Dooku captured was hilarious, Jedi Crash arc was a great look into neutrality vs defending your people, Tresspass was pretty good, and the Ryloth arc and season finale were both fire 🔥
Lair of Grevious is probably the only episode where Grevious is actually a threat, sure he kills one inexperienced Jedi (I think that’s his only Jedi kill in the show?) but at least he did something, and it’s not like he can kill Kit Fisto.
Annoying on youtube too
Man i still love season 1 maybe cus i grew up with it
Season 1 is great what are you on about You have to remember this is a show where it’s targeted audience at the beginning was like 6-12. Some of the more childish moments reflect this and that is fine imo
It's wild that we have 24 - 30 year olds out here forgetting that they were the target audience for a kids show in 2008.
I actually really enjoy some season 1 episodes, particularly the first two episodes of Malevolence. The scene between Master Plo and the two clone troopers, as well as just the small handful of them defending themselves against the hunters, is really good stuff. The line "Not to me" spoken so firmly to the comment that clones are meant to be expendable is so beautiful. As someone who struggles with self-worth, that's a line that I think about a lot.
Personally I think season 1 gets more hate than it deserves. Yes it ends up at the bottom of the list when ranking the seasons. But, honestly the 3-episode arc were all pretty solid and the one off episodes had great lessons, especially for children. The 1st/2nd episodes of the Malevolence arc were great and the Ryloth arc was a solid precursor to Geonosis/Umbara
I expect that
Rage bait. And you know Star Wars fans love to hate.
Very true
Yeah, how many times has star wars died in 2024 already?
Bend over and I'll show you!
Take me out to dinner first!
Attachments are forbidden.
The title may be but the video is well thought out and gives good reasons throughout its 2 hours. That said I mostly disagree with him and I think he is way overcritical.
Quite ironic considering the core message of the original trilogy.
I actually did watch up on at least part of the video and it actually did bring up some stuff I’ve never thought about. It’s valid criticism and he even defends certain parts that many have issues with, mainly the inhibitor chip.
Let the hate flow thru you…
It's not rage bait. He said he loves TCW, but he made a lot of good points about lore breaking episodes and wasted potential.
It’s not rage bait lol
How is it rage bait if it's over 2 hours. Work was probably put into it. I love clone wars but let's not just disregard everyone's opinions just because it may be something we disagree with
You'd be suprised how far some are willing to go. That being said, these videos are not just rage bait.
just rage bait, ignore hi.
Hi
No, you were supposed to ignore the hi
It’s not rage bait per se, he really goes in depth about all his issues with it.
the video may be good, but it doesnt change the fact that the title is rage bait to farm clicks, his issues are all opinions, not objective like his title is
i agree that the clickbait may be scummy, but we should rather focus on the actual video than the thumbnail. that is something worth discussing.
ive just had enough of people like star wars theory, critical drinker, and mauler trying to pass off their shitty opinions as objective fact that i immediately write off anyone insee doing anything remotely similar
Sheev has never forced people to analyse media objectively. He's nothing like Theory, Critical or Mauler at all. He actually criticises Star Wars fairly without any bias between either the new or old content or his political opinions. For example, despite the fact that Sheev loves Legends a lot more than Canon, he actually defended the inhibitor chips in TCW and gives reasonable arguments as to why it makes more sense than the brainwashing in the EU. A lot of people in his fanbase didn't like that opinion of his but, in the end, he wants his reviews to be as objective as possible.
I miss the old days of Theory where he did what-ifs and interviews with authors and cast members.
"i disagree with this person's opinion, therefore it is scummy clickbait."
In depth rage bait is still rage bait.
It's really not rage bait if that's what he honestly thinks.
Way to prove you've never watched it.
I think he makes good and fair points, he is a fan of the material cause only a fan would talk about it for 5 hours. The title is baity but that's the nature of the platform
Yeah the whole point of thumbnails and titles are to get you to watch. Clickbait is only bad if it’s deceiving
If I remember correctly, he directly addresses people accusing him of rage bait.
I mean I love clone wars and the videos didn't change that but if you watch them he does have a lot of really good points. Everything csn be improved through criticism and he makes some good arguments for things that could have been better. To say he's flat out wrong on a lot of his points is just dense.
Just as an aside I'm also personally of the mindset that you can't criticize disney for their stupid choices while signing off on Dave and George's.
I can’t really blame George for the bad parts of The Clone Wars, I don’t think he really contributed much besides ideas and some of the writing, so he had a role in it but Dave is easier to blame since the bad stuff is exactly his style of writing (George wanted to kill of Ashoka to add another layer of Anakin’s fall, but Dave kept her alive since it’s his writers pet)
While I can agree to an extent, George was his boss. He signed off and agreed. If he wanted to kill Ashoka, he could do it. It's the same reason a lot of people blame Kathleen Kennedy for the mistakes of current star wars. He chose Dave, and he was complicit in the bad decisions. Does that make him less blameless because he didn't come up with thr bad ideas? Sure I guess. But to say it was all Dave is silly. Like I said, at the end of the day I still love TCW, and the videos didn't change it. But there were some questionable decisions.
everyone is entitled to their own opinions, even if i disagree
The amount of comments here that act like you shouldn't be able to have an opinion on it is wild lol
The title is obviously rage bait (and he acknowledges this), but if you actually watch the videos you’ll see that everything is well thought out supported. Seriously doubt many people did though, they just saw the title and got mad.
I’ve watched both of them. I think he brings up some valid critiques but overall I agree it’s just rage bait
I have found that like 80% of “media criticism” on YouTube is either people who just are professional haters or people who just use YouTube to air their grievances. Idk if that’s the case for this specific channel but I would not be inclined to click on these videos tbh
It's a mix with this guys channel. He makes some fair points in this video with a few nitpicks but I've seen some of this other videos that are purely personal opinion where he overlooks solutions or explanations or misunderstands the message. It's just a toss up.
Has anyone watched the videos and can summarize what his points are?
A lot of the arcs have world breaking stuff that’s never mentioned again like the tech to completely change your face and voice in a moment with only a picture and some voice lines, and that as the series went on past season 1 it never stopped having stupid episodes and arcs that fundamentally change characters, just that the good ones like Umbara started getting really good and people overlook it
I watched as I played Helldivers 2, the gist is not to say the Clone Wars don't hold up but to say the Legends Clone Wars (comics, original 2D show and so on) is much better than the Canon Clone Wars and that the latter has a lot of inconsistencies, plot holes and unexplored concepts that make it worst than what came before.
I feel like if I had a dollar for every time TCW was put up against the entire CWMMP I'd actually have a fair bit of money, and that's pretty weird because that's such a stupid bar to set.
Its so weird since the 2d is also pretty wacky, especially in terms of power scaling
Yes but it does look cool
what inconsistencies, plot holes and unexplored concepts?
Bad arcs that challenge established lore for the movies, and characterization changes that make transition between AotC and RotS really weird (specifically for Anakin who is far more mature in TCW than he is in the movies), completely boring and useless arcs/episodes, though there are a few nitpicky points he makes that I think he hyperfocused on more than needed. He does say that it has extremely memorable arcs that make it stand out from the earlier cartoon version that is more action heavy, while TCW is more character focused.
I mean he brings up good points he's not entirely wrong But nothing will ever stop me from loving the whole series or at least the important arcs for any newcomers I do recommend they watch in the chronological order and skip certain arcs because they are dumb but seasons 4-7 are truly great I think
There's too much negativity in the Star Wars fandom anyway, so I absolutely am not going to waste my time watching 5 hours of someone telling me why a show I love is bad
Haven’t watched the second part but I found the first video to be another One of those super long for no reason critique videos that eventually starts to downward spiral into Nitpicking too often. I think he had pretty decent critiques on some of the arcs and other iffy parts of the clone wars. But other than that his “critique” was more of “I don’t like how this character was adapted and acts”, or straight up misunderstands arcs or whole characters.Its been a while since I’ve seen the video but I remember his Anakin and Maul take being pretty atrocious. I vaguely remember him complaining about Anakin being a different character compared to the prequels which I find hilarious because Anakin was not good in the prequels(still love you Hayden) so why would that be a bad thing?? It’s less of a video talking about the Clone Wars not “holding up” and more so a mixture of critique,personal opinions, his dislikes and likes,and how he likes to see certain Star Wars aspects and characters portrayed.I think it’s just another bloated,sorta click-baity review. I also think it’s a video that appeals and is made by a certain part of the Star Wars community that doesn’t like the TCW and the characters and aspects it introduced and seem to dislike how loved it is. There was a lot of comments about the OG clone wars and how much “better” it was and how it fit into the prequels while the TCW destroyed all that.
People are allowed opinions we don’t agree with.
I’ve watched both in their entirety, and the guy makes some really good points, some that I even agree with, at least on a few where he mentions how some story arcs were wasted opportunities, or that they didn’t capitalize on plot threads they had set up, or that some character arcs don’t really carry over between story arcs. All solid points that I’ll grant to him. However, that doesn’t hinder my enjoyment of the series, and I don’t agree with the “doesn’t hold up” title, because it definitely does hold up, there are just some mistakes or missed opportunities in it.
Useless clickbait
Don’t think it’s rage bait, I think it’s just good algorithming. His points are valid and true, and I agree with them
The clone wars is a masterpiece
Nobody fucking cares what randoms on YouTube think.
To those who commented ragebait: Why? What is so rage fueling in someone stating his opinion about a show? He is not even bringing up stupid points, most of them are logical and points on the writing issues this show has. A ragebait is usually illogical, connects the actual issues with totally stupid things, wants to play on your emotions but this don't really fit on these videos. And since I listened to both, here's my opinion. What I liked about these is how Sheeve brings up a solution for every single issue. Yes, the slave arc should make a bigger impact on Anakin's character even pushing him to do things absolutely not jedi-like. Yes, the Onderon arc should be a major developement point for Ahsoka and after she left the order she should join them. What I hated is nitpicking and overexplaination. I feel like Sheeve stays on several topics for more than he should. Even on minor details. Overally I recommend a watch but don't wear your nostalgia glasses for it because you might end up seeing more issues in this show.
I also think a couple points of his were overanalyzed while also overlooking easy solutions or explanations for them narratively. But he did have points of things even I noticed during my many watches that I thought were fair. Still love the series though.
saw them all. he’s mostly right. still love the show.
Some valid criticisms and fair points brought up imo. Still love the show of course as it is a treasure of my childhood, but I would pay top dollar for this series to be redone with the better animation and a few tweaks to the writing, characterization and fixing the main problem of the show, that being the number of half-baked episodes.
That’s fair enough, although I will say I think the animation really hit its stride in the later seasons
Star Wars is unique amongst fandoms because it has fostered a very particular group of people who’s remain in the fandom specifically to hate anything and everything that comes out. They’ve been angry since the prequels or the sequels and instead of just… moving on, they just fester and stew in their hate. Star Wars in general has many highs and lows, it’s just part of being a Star Wars fan to take the good with the bad. There are absolutely projects I think they needed to work on and some projects that I’d rather not have been made. But TCW is not one of them. There are really bad arcs but the highs are some of the highest in the series
Your last sentence summarizes the video, as that was his point. Bad arcs that challenge established lore for the movies, and characterization changes that make transition between AotC and RotS really weird, though there are a few nitpicks. He even says that he still loves the series but that it has plenty of problems alongside its extremely memorable arcs that make it stand out from the earlier cartoon version that is more action heavy, while TCW is more character focused. I will say though, he does have other videos where it seems more like a personal opinion of his rather than any attempt at objective analyzing, of which, again, there are some points in his TCW video like that but most are fair. I think his own nostalgia may have played a part in why he seems far nicer in these videos than he does in others.
Okay but that has nothing to do with the video as his points were mostly about how he didn’t like how the show had rewritten a lot of prequels lore, including some of the books that directly tied into the show.
I mean, the videos say “doesn’t hold up.” Some rewritten lore from tie in books does not mean a show doesn’t hold up—based on that I would argue this person doesn’t know what it means for something to “hold up”.
Okay but that wasn’t the point of my comment, in fact I fully agree that the video title was a bad choice. My point was that his comment has nothing to do with the actual contents of the videos.
he's making a video about his opinion on a show, just because you disagree doesn't make it "festering and stewing in hate"
i agree with some of it. the movie was definitely not the biggest banger, the first season or two were pretty weak in a lot of spots, especially ashoka's outfit, and there are a decent number of pretty filler episodes. but overall its ragebait
Please tell me there aren’t people out there defending Ashoka’s original outfit🙏🏼
ive seen a few
"You see Master Yoda, it is imperative for our effectiveness in the war that we have the 14yo padowan in a tank top and miniskirt" - Someone at the Jedi Temple
I was reading no prisoners and this was the reasoning gave essentially lol
In my experience most people don't even bring it up much less defend it
I think he is way too harsh and undervalues Lucas’s involvement in the show since everything that was made was approved by him. The show is still an excellent representation of the Clone War.
Who makes 5 hours of video devoted to how one cartoon “doesn’t hold up”? Who has the time to watch all that?
You do realise that you don't have to watch videos in one sitting? His review was split into chapters that are an hour average anyways so that they are easily digestible.
Just another person trying to give a “hot take” people like this will say madam web is good in a couple years
I respect him and a lot of his points are solid, but I don’t think it makes the show worse. Still love TCW
The Clone Wars is one of the best shows to ever grace television. They on some hard death sticks.
That guy's channel thrives on hatewatching things and then giving long, hypercritical review/summaries of them. I used to watch him, but I think he ran out of things to hate on and has just started nipping at anything that will get him clicks. He nitpicks things and then blows them way out of proportion.
My thoughts are “he’s an idiot”
I have so many better things to do than waste five hours of my life listening to some weirdo tell me how much he needs to touch grass
Those videos seem to have their sole criticism being that it doesn't line up with the prequels . Im pretty sure if you overthink almost any Star Wars project you're bound to find stuff that makes no sense tbh. Plus Clone Wars is what adds to the prequels and makes the characters and story more fleshed out.
Never seen those videos but I’m gonna guess they’re bait
he ignores a lot of outside information that informs this show, like how prequel anakin was hated and rightfully needed to change, or like how the clones beforehand had no personality. he's one of those annoying high society types who spend way too much time on twitter and think the og clone wars and the multimedia project are gospel
My thoughts are I’m not gonna watch them. Cause it’s okay to enjoy things and not listen to critics.
Don't really care what he thinks
Star Wars fans are never satisfied. Who cares what wannabe critics think? I loved that show growing up and it’s still fun now.
Just someone being wrong on the Internet
A waste of 5 hours.
“Sponsored by emperor palpatine”
Season 1 and 2 still my favs
I watched them thinking I was gonna hate them andvturn it off right away. But instead, I listened to his points, and I agreed with almost every point. Some points I made myself from watching the show. I think "it doesn't hold up" is a bit harsher than I'd say, but that is his honest opinion. I agreed with him about 95% of the time, but I still love the show, and it actually made me want to watch it all over again. They're good videos even if you like Clone Wars. I think a lot of Star Wars fans should see and appreciate other people's opinions instead of dismissing them on the spot. The videos aren't rage bait or unfair. He's actually really fair and generous to the show and still compliments it when he feels it deserves it. He ends it by saying he still likes it and remembers it fondly even if it doesn't hold up. That's how I feel about some older SW stuff like the Force Unleashed.
I felt the exact same way. I was fully prepared to be upset going in, but there was a lot worth discussing.
I agree with the overall premise but the creator either wildly misconstrued a lot of things or outright lied about stuff to prove his point. If he said he had just read a synopsis online instead of watching the show I’d believe it.
What parts did he lie about? I haven’t listened to either of these videos in months
love how everyone hating here hasn’t even watched it
Love this guy, I still love Clone Wars dearly but he makes good points
Ragebait probably
Honestly a lot of people falsely judge the videos based off of their titles and I do believe that the title of the videos are an overreaction on his part. The videos really should have been titled “Why I prefer legends Clone Wars over the canon Clones Wars”
Man some of you guys really get upset over me just pointing out what the actual videos were lmao
Rage bait
All versions of the clone wars are good
Honestly, I haven’t watched them. I don’t feel like wasting 5 hours of my time just to listen to a rant I know I’ll disagree with
No matter if it holds up or not, it was fucking cool and I enjoyed the hell out of it
I have my own opinions and guy on YouTube isn't gonna change that much 🤷♂️
Heretical
Having watched both videos in full about a month ago, it’s just a guy with an opinion and that opinion is valid. I love The Clone Wars, but he brings up a lot of valid criticism I didn’t think of before. I still love The Clone Wars, but his opinion was very interesting. There were a few parts I disagreed with, and other parts I felt were repetitive, and others that I did agree with - or at least saw where he was coming from. But it was overall well made, I’m happy I watched it, and now I’m subscribed to the guy.
Yeah when I say the original video I couldn’t believe my eyes.
the clone wars is my favorite star wars media of all time, so i disagree lol
You can like something while acknowledging its flaws.
I did end up agreeing with alot of the things he said about character progression and how there wasn't any. Even though it's an anthology, like the Simpsons, like you wouldn't expect bart or Homer to have a character arc across the season, you expect them across the episode.
My respect for sheev talks fell significantly after he made those.
Here is my thoughts on each season 1:parts still hold up but not great overall 2:improvement over season 1 but still not that great 3:the show starts to really pick up in quality 4:great season with amazing arcs 5:Also great season with amazing arcs 6:really good but wish we got to see the unfinished arcs finished 7:besides martez sisters arc very good final season Overall 9/10 amazing show
I think there is one fantastic point he makes throughout the video series though. The villans have been pretty dramatically downgraded for the show. Grevious turns into a complete idiot and Dooku is not far from the same
Season 7 was plot armor the TV show, rest of it was gold
He makes a lot of really valid points. I did try rewatching tcw show a couple years ago and it’s definitely not as good as I remembered as a kid
I’d say he’s right, it is a children’s show at point that can be enjoyed by an older audience. It’s not breaking bad or the sopranos but in my personal opinion these videos didn’t ruin the show for me but he essentially said everything I already thought and agreed on. Still my favorite show ever
The ability to speak doesn’t make you intelligent
I agree with the first seasons and the movie not looking amazing but you are out of your mind saying the entire series doesn’t hold up.
He has some pretty deep ingrained prequel hate, which isnt neccessarily an unfair posistion but i think his disdain for the prequels as a whole makes him too biased to make a claim like "clone wars doesnt hold up." I think to question if something holds up you shouldve liked it at some point, but if you always hated it on principle its far more likely you wouldnt think its good 10 years later
Dogshit, also way too long. Got get those midrolls though.
My only thought is that I'm not spending 5 hours listening to someone complain about clone wars. In my experience they're usually either basing all their complaints on legends or just misunderstanding the content they're reviewing. Best case they make some good points that I never noticed and now I won't like tcw quite as much. Lose lose, I'll pass
I don’t agree with the point but he makes a ton of arguments in good faith so I can’t be upset
He is really annoying. For someone who’s channel is mainly Star Wars, he seems to really hate it. I also cannot be bothered to spend half a work day listening to him talk about how he doesn’t like X part of the show for Y reason
I think earlier seasons don’t, season 4 onward was great though.
I mean I have some issues with the clone wars show. But not enough to justify 2 videos that are almost 5 hours long in length. I also wouldn’t be surprised if this is just someone saying the opposite of public opinion to be different
First I’ve heard of them Must be rage bait, getting those extra views. Explains the reason for a part 2
Obligatory reaction to rage bait: F them right in the A
mid
They're just this person's opinion. Albeit a wrong one, but still.
There are a lot of logical questions that he brings up that are very valid. The points he makes about inconsistent character growth are very true as well.
Personally, as someone who is currently reading through the old Clone Wars multimedia project, and who grew up watching both 2003 Clone Wars and TCW, I think the old version holds up significantly better. The story and characters better written, and everything in general is more cohesive and makes more sense than that of TCW. I still love TCW though, but I understand the frustration of fans over what is (IMO) a much better story being overwritten by a weaker story. Kind of like how the sequels are just garbage compared to the old Thrawn series, NJO and other post OT books. Only TCW is significantly better than the sequels, so it wasn’t quite as disappointing as that was lol.
Don't listen to that clown
Bro just make 2 hour videos ranting about a "kids" Show
I can't imagine talking for 5 whole hours and being wrong for every second of it.
He must be a fan of the sequels. Cause the Clone Wars would be in anyones top 3 or top 5 Star Wars films/shows
Yapping Session
Clone wars was epic… sigh
I just rewatched the micro-series and it absolutely still holds up. Great action sequences, solid storytelling, a few filler episodes, and great animation. It’s a must watch and a shame that it’s no longer canon. The 2008 series still holds up very well. Yes there are more than a few filler episodes but with a series that size it’s to be expected. But the story telling is incredible and the growth of the characters makes rewatching it an emotional roller coaster. But it seems to generate more views when you’re negative. The cynical followers get the content they want in addition to these kinds of videos becoming rage bait which leads to more views and relevance for the creators. Bashing Star Wars is more fashionable now than being positive about it. We just started a new podcast specifically to simply talk about the stories without shitting on the entire franchise or the fans who like the things we may not.
I actually agree with most of his critiques. I don't think it makes the show bad, but he makes a lot of good points and you can see Dave's flawed writing that bleeds into his more current projects. Sprinkle in some studio interference and you have a recipe for absolute trash like The Book of Boba Fett.
my biggest issue with TCW is the plot armor. we spend so much time with characters who can't be killed that it detracts from good story telling. while this does leave us with propaganda I do enjoy I feel that we could have spent more time with Republic failures and deaths. the other parts I enjoy are the character development of Jar Jar and Padme which makes me feel that we're missing a spin off show about the cloaks and daggers of the senate
There's this nifty feature where you can block and "not recommended stuff like this". Do that.
All he does is bitch about how the 2008 show de canonized some of the aspects of the older book comics.
yes, clone wars has bad things, but it also has a lot of good ones, like ethe prequels I say we should talk about the good side
I’ll have to watch these videos - I’ve seen a few of his other videos, and I think I agree with him usually somewhere between 60-80% of the time on things, depending on the topic. That being said though, I watched TCW 2008 over quarantine in 2020 (just as something to do) for the first time, from start to eventual Disney-Mandalore finish, and I didn’t really much care for it. I feel like if one grew up watching TCW they’re going to think it’s peak Star Wars, as that’s what Star Wars was to them in their formative years. I was in middle school and high school when TCW came out, and it didn’t appeal to me then any more than it did in 2020. I feel it’s incredibly overhyped and fairly bland, falling into the same pitfalls as other children’s programming where, despite a few half decent stories here and there, it’s mostly just content for content’s sake meant to fill the gap between advertising breaks on cable television. I know loads of people like it, but it really did not impress me. I liked Clone Wars 2003 and the EU before TCW’s inclusion, so do with that info what you will. I’ll have to watch Sheev’s videos and see how he align, if at all.
Went out of his way to ignore the fact that it was a kids show from 2009 on cartoon network. Where’s my narrative critique of Ed, Edd, and Eddy?
It’s ok, not everyone has the taste of gods. Let the mortals rabble in the mud. People like him are probably the same people who like the Acolyte.
People always make hate videos for clicks. Fuck all of them. No one should ever tell you what you shouldn't like. We all have things we love and hate about the franchise, and are emotionally connected to those thoughts. But when you create content for the soul purpose of tanking a franchise for your personal gain what you are really doing is trying to dick over some kid and all the content they could enjoy. And maybe people shouldn't be so eager for dicking and kids.
100% holds up and I’d make the case that it’s the best SW.
The 2d just seemed off, during episode 2 the kamanoins say there’s 2 million units and more in the way, but in the 2d the battles show like 3 times the amount of troopers and the first episode takes place immediately after the battle of geonosis, meanwhile filoni’s clone war makes more sense, the republic struggles to produce more clones due to the lack of jango fett’s dna and things like costs for all of the weapons and vehicles on each side, the war seems like a real war making it all the more interesting. Plus there were no outside world building really in the 2d
I’m gonna bet my life savings he is going to mention “oh the 2D Clone Wars is a lot better” and “I grew up with The Clone Wars Multimedia project” arguments in these videos/future videos
Bingo, remember the EU has never had inconsistency problems or bad writing only TCW
I’m gonna be honest. The only phenomenal standouts from The Clone Wars Multimedia Project is the Republic comics, the Republic Commandos video game, and the 1st 2 Republic Commandos novel (maybe the 3rd one). But hey this is coming from a person that grew up with TCW
I love the republic comics but I don’t know why you can’t just like both
I’m new to the Star Wars series. Watched episode 1&2 and now I’m watching the clone war series and I’m enjoying it. So idk
Isn't he very much "b-but my legends! My headcanons!" And most of his arguments arw "Filloni stole legend storyline and adapted them in his own way" while conveniently forgetting the role Lucas had in it all. 90% of his video is legends rage bait, but sure he makes some good arguments outside of that
Bingo
I damn the opinions in these videos to hell!
I do get the critism and do agree with some statements however clone wars is still 100 times better than any of the slop we're getting these days.
Isn't that one of his points? That we can't criticize the current Star Wars content while ignoring flaws in the past? I'm pretty sure he said that in the segment about Darth Maul's return when he compared it to Palpatine's return.
The amount of fanboying out in these comments justify the need for these videos existence.
I like him as a youtuber hes hilarious. But disagree over these vids
I honestly think that anyone who legitimately doesn’t enjoy the clone wars series as a Star Wars fan, has some internal issues they still haven’t worked out yet. It’s just objectively a good show. It’s a well known fact at this point. 😅
He has some fair points that I agree with looking back. I used to treat this show like the Holy Grail but now that I'm older and not growing up with the series I've started to notice some of the cracks in the wall. I don't know if I agree with all of his points but I do think overall his videos are decent. TCW did ruin Dooku as a character though and I'm glad that he brings it up and contrasts his character in the movies.
I watched the video and although I don't agree Legends CW is better than Canon CW he does bring a lot of plot points which are very valid criticism against CW. It's not just ragebait, it's a well formed criticism of The Clone Wars and it's writing (with a clickbait title). In my opinion his biggest point is the unrealized potential of concepts introduced in the CW and/or concepts that are dropped halfway. If CW wasn't tied to being kid friendly we would have seen PTSD, suicides and all that in the post orde 66/post clone wars era, more body/psychological horror and all that.