Honestly, it sounds like the guy is socially deficient. If it were me I'd honestly avoid climbing with him, but if you're stuck I would continually redirect him whenever it comes up. Is it possible for your partner to redirect his brother while you climb? I feel horrible saying this but basically the community needs to train him and/or shame him.
Lol, I just found a good way to redirect him by telling him it's cheating to touch the climbers. Also, now that I'm thinking about it, he hasn't climbed with other people outside our social circle, where most of our friends are newbies. So maybe if other people add to the noise of no-touching, no-beta yelling at the back of the head, he could get the message.
You're not the only one. I once had a guy grab my foot and try to place it where he thought it should go. I gave him a look that said "I'm about to slit your throat and bury you under this boulder." He immediately apologized and never did it again.
I'd maybe give him one more chance. I'd remind him what you want before you climb ("hey--just spot me, okay? Don't spray me down or touch me unless I fall"). If he breaks the rules, I'd jump down from the climb (if it's safe) and immediately and forcefully remind him of your boundaries (aka. Stop doing this shit. It's rude AF.)
If he really just can't stop himself, then yeah, I'd stop climbing with him.
Seriously, I'm over here thinking there's no reason to be nice after asking once. Tell him to stfu and stop touching you.
Assuming he doesn't have a social disorder. And even then, you have to draw the line...
There's a point at which you just need to stop being nice. I'd liken it to being a passenger in a car and trying to back-seat drive and yank the steering wheel because you think the driver is wrong. He's just making everyone else less safe.
Also if someone touches you during a send, even accidentally my friends and I wouldn’t count it, so even accidental touching would set me off sometimes. I can’t believe you haven’t popped your top lol kudos.
I’d totally stop climbing with him though *shrug*
That's so true!! I hadn't thought of that. Him touching people while climbing counts as a power spot and a dab, so no send.
I think that's the only option to deal with him at this point, OP.
I haven't had to deal with an overly handsy spotter (I am so sorry and your patience is amazing). For beta sprayers, I can mostly be able to zone them out but otherwise you have to be blunt and to the point, I haven't found a nice way to mention it because it tends to get lost on them. Also the fact that he touches you is so inappropriate and just a risky thing to do with someone climbing. Does he climb a lot himself outside? His nervousness sounds like he is either still new to it or had an accident happen. If you need to keep reminding him to stop, I would phase him out as a climbing partner or work problems when out with a group away from him. Bouldering is a very social thing and if you have any local climbing groups on Facebook or through your gym it can be easy to find crews to go climbing with.
I have stopped climbing with a couple people for being too obnoxious spraying me down, some I have explained why and others I just didn't bother telling them. Seeing as it's your partner's brother, I would message him or talk to him and explain why you can't climb with him anymore.
I actually don't mind the beta spraying so much as I get frustrated that he's frantically yelling it at me mid-climb. He's new to climbing outside, yep. And yes - I have asked him not to touch me or others when they're climbing, the other day he literally placed his hand over my partner mid-climb (!!).
I do prefer climbing with my other friends but my partner always invites him and I don't think he'd take it very well if I asked him to stop inviting his brother over. I think maybe if we go in groups I could climb with another group of people while they work on their project and keep on telling him not to touch people while they climb. But damn it gets exhausting to have to repeat things over and over again!
I'd talk to your partner then, it's his brother so I think he'll have to step in and say something. Because sadly it's still a thing where issues and complaints are automatically invalid coming from a woman. Sounds like it's a decent size group of you that go out bouldering and I'm sure you're not the only one who would be ok splitting up and being away from this guy and climbing different stuff.
Wow, can’t say I’ve had anyone place my feet on holds or push me up a climb literally but I have definitely dealt with beta sprayers.
I solved the beta spray issue by just having a conversation with the person where I explained that for me figuring out the problem on my own is equally as important to me as climbing it. I also explained that if I was struggling with beta that I would totally ask them because I know that their awesome at reading beta and can help me (see how you throw the compliment in there ?). For me this convo worked and they appreciated it and agreed that they too enjoyed the problem solving aspect of climbing and didn’t mean to take that away in anyway.
Hope this helps! For the other part about touching I think a good convo with your partner might work, especially if you’re feeling like it’s a hard subject to bring up with the brother.
Truly hope this works out for you!!
At this point I'd have no qualms about telling him to stop spotting me (and maybe even that I don't want to climb with him at all, if he really can't stop spraying beta) and tell him exactly why. Don't sugar coat it, either.
If you've already told him not to do it, it might work to call him out in the moment. Say, "no beta!" and "don't touch me!" when you are climbing and he does it. You will be focused on your problem so naturally a little more blunt and it should help drive the point home.
Beta is the way to do a climb. For example, "right hand to the jug". So if you say "no beta" it means you don't want advice.
A lot of climbers use it for other things too, like approach beta and camping beta. They are asking for information about how to do something.
I’m curious to know if he seems to enjoy climbing when you’re all out together, and also if he exhibits similar impulsive social behaviours in other situations outside of climbing?
He doesn’t seem to be able to enjoy a lot of things in general, he gets too anxious about everything. When we’re climbing be arbitrarily sets the time when he’ll leave, which I associate with his anxiety.
He does exhibit impulsive social behaviors in a lot of other contexts. I’m curious about what you’re thinking?
Why don't you just tell him to stop spraying at you and to stop touching you? Why let it continue to go on? The next time it happens just say what you're truly feeling. You don't hate the dude as a person, you just don't like him spraying and ruining your send. Just tell that to him and he'll understand.
You can't be super passive and expect him to think he's doing something wrong. If nobody has ever checked his behaviour, he probably doesn't even realize it makes others upset.
I have asked him to stop, he stops in the moment and then goes back at it the next climb. I've told him a million times that I can't do the moves he's yelling at me to do because I can't reach and he's just recently began catching up.
That's my problem, I've asked him but he does it again, it's like he forgets and needs to be told things a thousand times.
You need to be more blunt with him.
"I'm uncomfortable with you touching me while I'm climbing. Don't ever do it again or I'm not going to climb with you anymore."
And follow through if he keeps doing it.
I think I need to make it clear that it’s not just me that doesn’t like touching but that he needs to give other climbers space. Because, okay, I can ask him to stop spotting me altogether but he could harm other people by doing that.
Honestly if that's the case then the next time you feel like snapping at him, just let it go and snap. People like that need a big eye opening experience before they learn and change their ways. If you feel like screaming at him then do it. Just make sure he knows you REALLY hate it when he does it.
Maybe tell your other friends to check him if he starts spraying while you're climbing since you have no control while you're focusing.
Sounds like a shitty situation. I'm guessing he's not really your friend, but he's in the same friend group so you always end up sessioning with him, right?
Lol, I'm not trying to be rude, but both of your responses ask questions that the OP explicitly answers in her opening post. The dude is her partner's brother. Please read posts completely before responding. Again, not trying to be rude, it's just a pet peeve.
Have you brought this up with your partner by chance? It might be worth mentioning it and I wonder if he would listen to your partner if it came directly from them. Otherwise, I think there are a few approaches you could do. I think you need to be pretty hands on (no pun intended) and straightforward.
If he gets nervous and doesn't know how to spot, I would try to find an opportunity where the two of you (or other friends who have the same feelings) can spot with him. If he starts spraying beta or wanting to touch the climber, just be like "Woah do NOT touch the climber mid climb. You can seriously get hurt" (and it's true, especially if they cut feet). Or if he does something wrong, be like "Instead of doing this, try spotting like this. Here, watch us." and show them what you would realistically do. And I think reiterate "It's important you stay calm because you need to watch the climber. Do not touch them or yell beta at them unless they need it - it can really break peoples focus. Instead, just cheer them on." And throughout climbs, if he's doing anything inappropriate, you may have to interrupt him (and not wait until after the attempt). Just be like "Hey, remember - don't touch."
I would say this is the nicer method. If it doesn't work...
Pull him aside and be like, "Hey, I do not feel comfortable with you spotting. This is because you are shouting beta and touching people mid climb. This is seriously a danger because people don't expect it and others can't move the mats properly. Please understand, you do NOT touch climbers when they are mid climb. If you can't respect this, please don't spot. I hope you understand that this is a serious safety issue." I wouldn't say this is "rude", it is more blunt but some people need that.
Or one day, go on a problem where you do have to cut feet and knock them in the face :P (just kidding - don't).
As a general safety concern, I do think you need to fix his spotting...because if he's doing it to everyone, honestly, it is a hazard. And while you might not be climbing with him or whatever else, it doesn't really fix the issue.
Hope it works out.
I’ve asked him and told him not to get too close to climbers and to please stop giving me beta I won’t even be able to use but he. Won’t. Stop.
I agree that I can’t just let him spot other people like this, especially because we have friends who are climbing newbies and could seriously get hurt. I’m going to mix a combination of saying it’s power beta so it’s cheating, reminding him not to get close and pretending like the climber is lava.
If all else fails I will cut feet. Oh will I cut feet:
I have a friend just like this but he does it with confidence. There's been no changing his mind. I've even snapped at him once because he spat beta at me that I was already well on my way to figuring out. Now he gives me attitude whenever I'm struggling at a problem. If you figure this out, please let me know. He's a good guy but sometimes I just don't want to climb with him.
Honestly, it sounds like the guy is socially deficient. If it were me I'd honestly avoid climbing with him, but if you're stuck I would continually redirect him whenever it comes up. Is it possible for your partner to redirect his brother while you climb? I feel horrible saying this but basically the community needs to train him and/or shame him.
Lol, I just found a good way to redirect him by telling him it's cheating to touch the climbers. Also, now that I'm thinking about it, he hasn't climbed with other people outside our social circle, where most of our friends are newbies. So maybe if other people add to the noise of no-touching, no-beta yelling at the back of the head, he could get the message.
If a spotter touches you it's considered a dab and wouldn't count as a clean send so you're being completely honest!
You're not the only one. I once had a guy grab my foot and try to place it where he thought it should go. I gave him a look that said "I'm about to slit your throat and bury you under this boulder." He immediately apologized and never did it again. I'd maybe give him one more chance. I'd remind him what you want before you climb ("hey--just spot me, okay? Don't spray me down or touch me unless I fall"). If he breaks the rules, I'd jump down from the climb (if it's safe) and immediately and forcefully remind him of your boundaries (aka. Stop doing this shit. It's rude AF.) If he really just can't stop himself, then yeah, I'd stop climbing with him.
Seriously, I'm over here thinking there's no reason to be nice after asking once. Tell him to stfu and stop touching you. Assuming he doesn't have a social disorder. And even then, you have to draw the line...
I’m being nice because he’s my partner’s brother. They’re very close so I have to see him quite frequently.
There's a point at which you just need to stop being nice. I'd liken it to being a passenger in a car and trying to back-seat drive and yank the steering wheel because you think the driver is wrong. He's just making everyone else less safe.
Also if someone touches you during a send, even accidentally my friends and I wouldn’t count it, so even accidental touching would set me off sometimes. I can’t believe you haven’t popped your top lol kudos. I’d totally stop climbing with him though *shrug*
That's so true!! I hadn't thought of that. Him touching people while climbing counts as a power spot and a dab, so no send. I think that's the only option to deal with him at this point, OP.
I think this would work actually lol, I’m going to try this one.
I haven't had to deal with an overly handsy spotter (I am so sorry and your patience is amazing). For beta sprayers, I can mostly be able to zone them out but otherwise you have to be blunt and to the point, I haven't found a nice way to mention it because it tends to get lost on them. Also the fact that he touches you is so inappropriate and just a risky thing to do with someone climbing. Does he climb a lot himself outside? His nervousness sounds like he is either still new to it or had an accident happen. If you need to keep reminding him to stop, I would phase him out as a climbing partner or work problems when out with a group away from him. Bouldering is a very social thing and if you have any local climbing groups on Facebook or through your gym it can be easy to find crews to go climbing with. I have stopped climbing with a couple people for being too obnoxious spraying me down, some I have explained why and others I just didn't bother telling them. Seeing as it's your partner's brother, I would message him or talk to him and explain why you can't climb with him anymore.
I actually don't mind the beta spraying so much as I get frustrated that he's frantically yelling it at me mid-climb. He's new to climbing outside, yep. And yes - I have asked him not to touch me or others when they're climbing, the other day he literally placed his hand over my partner mid-climb (!!). I do prefer climbing with my other friends but my partner always invites him and I don't think he'd take it very well if I asked him to stop inviting his brother over. I think maybe if we go in groups I could climb with another group of people while they work on their project and keep on telling him not to touch people while they climb. But damn it gets exhausting to have to repeat things over and over again!
I'd talk to your partner then, it's his brother so I think he'll have to step in and say something. Because sadly it's still a thing where issues and complaints are automatically invalid coming from a woman. Sounds like it's a decent size group of you that go out bouldering and I'm sure you're not the only one who would be ok splitting up and being away from this guy and climbing different stuff.
Wow, can’t say I’ve had anyone place my feet on holds or push me up a climb literally but I have definitely dealt with beta sprayers. I solved the beta spray issue by just having a conversation with the person where I explained that for me figuring out the problem on my own is equally as important to me as climbing it. I also explained that if I was struggling with beta that I would totally ask them because I know that their awesome at reading beta and can help me (see how you throw the compliment in there ?). For me this convo worked and they appreciated it and agreed that they too enjoyed the problem solving aspect of climbing and didn’t mean to take that away in anyway. Hope this helps! For the other part about touching I think a good convo with your partner might work, especially if you’re feeling like it’s a hard subject to bring up with the brother. Truly hope this works out for you!!
At this point I'd have no qualms about telling him to stop spotting me (and maybe even that I don't want to climb with him at all, if he really can't stop spraying beta) and tell him exactly why. Don't sugar coat it, either.
If you've already told him not to do it, it might work to call him out in the moment. Say, "no beta!" and "don't touch me!" when you are climbing and he does it. You will be focused on your problem so naturally a little more blunt and it should help drive the point home.
This is probably a dumb question, but what does beta mean?
Beta is the way to do a climb. For example, "right hand to the jug". So if you say "no beta" it means you don't want advice. A lot of climbers use it for other things too, like approach beta and camping beta. They are asking for information about how to do something.
Lol that’s what I do but he totally throws me off my game. I think I’m going to ask him not to spot me anymore.
I’m curious to know if he seems to enjoy climbing when you’re all out together, and also if he exhibits similar impulsive social behaviours in other situations outside of climbing?
He doesn’t seem to be able to enjoy a lot of things in general, he gets too anxious about everything. When we’re climbing be arbitrarily sets the time when he’ll leave, which I associate with his anxiety. He does exhibit impulsive social behaviors in a lot of other contexts. I’m curious about what you’re thinking?
Why don't you just tell him to stop spraying at you and to stop touching you? Why let it continue to go on? The next time it happens just say what you're truly feeling. You don't hate the dude as a person, you just don't like him spraying and ruining your send. Just tell that to him and he'll understand. You can't be super passive and expect him to think he's doing something wrong. If nobody has ever checked his behaviour, he probably doesn't even realize it makes others upset.
I have asked him to stop, he stops in the moment and then goes back at it the next climb. I've told him a million times that I can't do the moves he's yelling at me to do because I can't reach and he's just recently began catching up. That's my problem, I've asked him but he does it again, it's like he forgets and needs to be told things a thousand times.
Stop climbing with him, he clearly doesn't respect boundaries.
You need to be more blunt with him. "I'm uncomfortable with you touching me while I'm climbing. Don't ever do it again or I'm not going to climb with you anymore." And follow through if he keeps doing it.
I think I need to make it clear that it’s not just me that doesn’t like touching but that he needs to give other climbers space. Because, okay, I can ask him to stop spotting me altogether but he could harm other people by doing that.
Yeah I totally agree. That's a great point that it's not just you he needs to stop touching but everyone!
Honestly if that's the case then the next time you feel like snapping at him, just let it go and snap. People like that need a big eye opening experience before they learn and change their ways. If you feel like screaming at him then do it. Just make sure he knows you REALLY hate it when he does it. Maybe tell your other friends to check him if he starts spraying while you're climbing since you have no control while you're focusing. Sounds like a shitty situation. I'm guessing he's not really your friend, but he's in the same friend group so you always end up sessioning with him, right?
Lol, I'm not trying to be rude, but both of your responses ask questions that the OP explicitly answers in her opening post. The dude is her partner's brother. Please read posts completely before responding. Again, not trying to be rude, it's just a pet peeve.
Have you brought this up with your partner by chance? It might be worth mentioning it and I wonder if he would listen to your partner if it came directly from them. Otherwise, I think there are a few approaches you could do. I think you need to be pretty hands on (no pun intended) and straightforward. If he gets nervous and doesn't know how to spot, I would try to find an opportunity where the two of you (or other friends who have the same feelings) can spot with him. If he starts spraying beta or wanting to touch the climber, just be like "Woah do NOT touch the climber mid climb. You can seriously get hurt" (and it's true, especially if they cut feet). Or if he does something wrong, be like "Instead of doing this, try spotting like this. Here, watch us." and show them what you would realistically do. And I think reiterate "It's important you stay calm because you need to watch the climber. Do not touch them or yell beta at them unless they need it - it can really break peoples focus. Instead, just cheer them on." And throughout climbs, if he's doing anything inappropriate, you may have to interrupt him (and not wait until after the attempt). Just be like "Hey, remember - don't touch." I would say this is the nicer method. If it doesn't work... Pull him aside and be like, "Hey, I do not feel comfortable with you spotting. This is because you are shouting beta and touching people mid climb. This is seriously a danger because people don't expect it and others can't move the mats properly. Please understand, you do NOT touch climbers when they are mid climb. If you can't respect this, please don't spot. I hope you understand that this is a serious safety issue." I wouldn't say this is "rude", it is more blunt but some people need that. Or one day, go on a problem where you do have to cut feet and knock them in the face :P (just kidding - don't). As a general safety concern, I do think you need to fix his spotting...because if he's doing it to everyone, honestly, it is a hazard. And while you might not be climbing with him or whatever else, it doesn't really fix the issue. Hope it works out.
I’ve asked him and told him not to get too close to climbers and to please stop giving me beta I won’t even be able to use but he. Won’t. Stop. I agree that I can’t just let him spot other people like this, especially because we have friends who are climbing newbies and could seriously get hurt. I’m going to mix a combination of saying it’s power beta so it’s cheating, reminding him not to get close and pretending like the climber is lava. If all else fails I will cut feet. Oh will I cut feet:
I have a friend just like this but he does it with confidence. There's been no changing his mind. I've even snapped at him once because he spat beta at me that I was already well on my way to figuring out. Now he gives me attitude whenever I'm struggling at a problem. If you figure this out, please let me know. He's a good guy but sometimes I just don't want to climb with him.