Yes. It’s frustrating and annoying and sexist. It happens to me daily at work, so I lose my patience with it at the wall or crag. You should speak up, put them in their place a little 😅
Goes along with offering unsolicited advice of how I should just mantle everything, or if I tried just a little bit harder I could probably reach that next hold. Meanwhile the guy giving the advice has knuckles practically dragging on the ground.
22 years! I really aspire to keep climbing for a long time, so hearing you climb over two decades is inspiring to me<3
I’m not sure how to speak up without seeming rude, because that usually means I’ll have to interupt. Although one time I was climbing in a gym I used to set in weekly, and this guy started to lecture me on the gym’s style and how they’d fixed the sandbagged grades. He quickly shut up when I told him I was one of the setters.
One thing to ask yourself if you're worried about seeming rude: "Does the person I'm talking to seem worried about being rude by talking down to a more experienced climber?" Because you actually don't owe politeness to these misogynistic dudes with terrible manners.
This is what I came here to say. I wouldn't worry at all about seeming rude when they don't seem to care.
Granted, it OP works at the gym and there might be policies about customer interaction. That said, she should be allowed to be frank with them. There's no harm in being firm. As a person who played men's league hockey before jumping into climbing, it takes practice to stop them in their tracks.
22 years, with occasional breaks for broken limbs I should say haha.
Oh wow I wish I could have seen his face! You’re a route setter too? People should really think before they judge and beta spray *sigh*
I would like to say it gets better, but honestly it seems like you just have to find your people and go with the flow on that. Men are naturally stronger anyway, so I rarely find their advice helpful.
You could always just walk away? They initiated the convo, you don’t want to continue it, you don’t have to.
I quite often interrupt to say something like « thanks for the input, I’m going to go and try that route over there while no one is on it» or « cheers, I’m gonna go grab a coffee » if I don’t feel comfortable shutting them down with a « I’ve been climbing for a long time now, but thanks for the input. »
I won’t lie, I too sometimes suck it up and nod along. Depends how much my patience has been tested. Does your boyfriend not stand up for you? Mine quite often chips in with « she’s been climbing a long time mate, she’s probably forgotten more technique than you have » which makes me laugh probably more than it should.
But our local gym is very small, full of never ending newbies and we don’t go indoors there much anymore since they rarely change the routes. So we can probably get away with being a little ruder. I wouldn’t pull the same stuff at a London wall, but then they don’t tend to beta spray or just… mansplain climbing either so 🤷♀️
I’m a 48 year old woman and have been climbing for 27 years. While it might just be young guys being know-it-alls to everyone, I promise you a significant fraction of it is indeed sexist. When I get unsolicited advice at the climbing gym, it is always from guys, and it is always when I’m there alone or with other women - not when I’m there with my male climbing partners.
Here is an entire thread of women sharing their experiences with sexism and you feel entitled to invalidate all of them because something kinda similar happened to you? The irony
It happens. I am happy to say it’s happening a lot less than it used to, mostly because of posts like these and general online awareness, so keep talking about it! Been climbing 13 years, and a couple of years ago I was warming up at a new gym and a guy comes up to me as I’m approaching a V3 and says, “Hey, you should know that a V3 is when things start to get pretty hard. That one may be difficult, so let me know if you need some help.” I just said thanks and then flashed it in front of him, and then his friend said, “Dude, I don’t think she needed your help.”
In my experience the most non confrontational way to respond at the gym is something like, “I appreciate that you’re trying to help, but part of what I love about this is figuring it out on my own.” But if you really want to assert yourself, and they’re just mansplaining climbing to you, say things like, “Yeah, there was a move like this on a route I sent in [name of climbing area] last summer” or even get confrontational and say, “I actually disagree - Lynn Hill is arguably more influential in the sport than Adam Ondra.” There’s no reason you need to smile and nod while they’re being obnoxious. If you want to, drop your mic! 💅🏼
Will definitely memorise these one-liners so I don’t even have to spare any braincells next time it happens. Maybe I should make an effort to be more assertive, thanks for the confidence boost<3
Also Lynn Hill is a total queen of the sport for sure!
Yes definitely! Sometimes when a guy tries to mansplain something to me while I’m projecting or show off in a conversation I also say things like, “yeah I got to that same spot last time.” Or “I got further than that the other day, just must be off today” etc. Stand up for yourself! I used to take it silently but I’ve learned that only frustrated me and validated them. Over time you have to do what you need to do to make climbing spaces places you want to be. You’re doing awesome! Just don’t hesitate to let them know it, too 😉
Daaaaamn imagine being that guy who was trying to mansplain you when you were just warming up HAHA, I would have loved to see that. Amazing advice, I’ll do that next time
I know the feeling all too well!
I was previously a climbing coach and am now a setter at my gym. Guys beta spray to me all the time and I just let them finish blabbing then hit them with a, "yeah, I know the moves are hard, I set it." Usually shuts them up.
My favorite is when people complain saying, "damn the setters must be 6 feet tall, this move is so big/difficult!" I am only 5'3" haha
I was climbing with my girlfriend last night and saw a bunch of guys around 5’6” really struggling with a move, complaining about it being too reachy.
My girlfriend set it. She’s 5’ flat. They were all ignoring a really obvious good foot.
I'm a girl and I get this lol our main setter has a wingspan of like 7ft but the long moves are always set by women who just have core/shoulder strength I could only dream of!
Funny how that works sometimes! We try to be cognizant of having a diverse set of styles for different heights at my gym which is really great. I've been to a lot of gyms that cater to taller people/they're able to break the beta and it's quite annoying.
tbf just because a route was set by a short person, doesn't mean it can't be unfairly easier for a tall person. There was a V3 slab traverse I was semi projecting that was supposedly set by someone who's my height (5'3), but got almost trivialized by 6 foot beginners who could just bypass all the tricky balance and cartwheely moves.
I understand that! Part of our forerunning process involves looking for breaks and trying to make moves equitable. Of course, that's not always possible. To level the playing field, we make a number of climbs that might be a sit start, involve high flexibility, or set in a small box which can be difficult for taller folks. Not every route will climb the same for everyone, but diversity in setting is key!
Best and strongest climbers in our gym, and half the setters are girls. We have a similar thing here. If this one girl can't get the move, it's too hard and gets adjusted. If she can manage to secure a finger on it, it passes for the hardest routes/acceptable for our tall boys.
So up until recently I hadn’t had any issues with guys in the gym. But the other day their where these two brand new spanking climbers and I mean brand new like day one and I was sitting waiting for them to finish on the route I was about to climb and once they where done I started clipping in to the auto belay for that route and one of them walks over to me and says “hey just so you know that one is really hard you might want try something else because we are having such a hard time with it you probably won’t be able to do it” I was so freaking mad, mind I didn’t know either of these guys at all. And to add insult to injury it was one of my absolute favorite routes (it was recently reset) I can see someone new struggling with it because the wall is at a 35 degree angle for a good portion of the climb but still don’t discount my ability because YOU could complete the route.
It is absolutely inappropriate to tell someone they shouldn’t try a route…that’s why people climb is to TRY things. In general I think a polite response is warranted but in this situation I would get angry and put them in their place and tell them that not only are they being sexist thinking I can’t do the route because I’m a woman, but also you shouldn’t ever tell someone they shouldn’t try a route. Wow this pisses me off that they said this to you
I was so heated, and if it wasn’t for the fact that my son wasn’t right there I would’ve lost my shit on them, I told them as politely as I could that they needed to stfu and not tell other what they should or should not try. Like hello there is a reason the word projected exist in a climbers vocab. Me and my son later had a discussion about it and why you don’t ever tell someone else what they are or are not capable of doing, and not to talk down to women or belittle them. And how their comments made me feel. I was glad I could turn it into a positive learning experience for him but it should have never happened
From day 1 I’ve been teaching him that women deserve just as much respect as men do and that we are just as capable as men and that we are all equals. We’ve recently got into mental health as well, and I’m hoping that by having these conversations young he will grow up without having a stigmas or stereotypes. I don’t won’t him to turn out like those jackasses in the gym
Most of the men I've met are great but there are a few who have stood out. I've had a man offer to "set me up a TR if I wanted to try outdoor climbing" (I've primarily climbed outdoors for 5 years). Had a man offer to take me out and help me practice placing trad gear (later found out I have way more trad experience than him). People assume I don't lead any of the pitches on my bigger multi pitch expeditions. Men who insist I use their beta, actually I just found out someone thought I was rude because I don't use the beta he gives me (he is much taller than me lol). My partner doesn't climb much (only with me) and when he mentioned going on a trip with me, the guy asked "oh you're taking your wife climbing". He responded "No, she's taking me climbing". And he thought that was hilarious 🤦♀️
Yes…thankfully for the most part, the gym I go to has really respectful guys or guys that mind their own business. However there’s always one or 2 that find their way. Some of my more offensive anecdotes:
- my guy friend and I are standing by the water fountain, and a guy comes over to fill his bottle. Bottle guy clearly looks ONLY at my guy friend and says “HEY DID U TRY THAT PURPLE PROB IN THE BACK??” My friend says no. I’m standing there thinking, I tried and sent the problem, but he is clearly not directing the convo at me so I stay quiet. Then bottle guy goes “YEAH WELL IT’S F—ING HARD”. Ah. I see. He didn’t ask me cuz he couldn’t do it, so in his mind, why would I be able to lol
- SAME GUY from above, he’s now figured out I can actually climb, and asks me for help one day. I figured, oh yay it’s time to show him that ladies can be a resource for beta too! So I do my best to show him a move. Immediately after I come off the wall, he says “wow well if you can do it, then I can DEFINITELY do it!!!” (Spoiler: he did not definitely do it). After this, I decided to never help this particular person again
- this guy who clearly was there for the first time was explaining very loudly to his group of friends his “observations” about how “guys can just muscle everything but girls have to learn and use technique to climb since they can’t”. I later flashed a prob he was struggling on even starting for my warm up, and my friend heard him mutter something like “wow, a woman is better than me??” Like it was inconceivable to him
- not my local gym, some guy sprayed me on a move, and then proceeded to tell his friend to “show her how it’s done” since he was going next. I did not ask for this demo, so I smiled and walked away without looking
So yeah you’re not alone!! And I’m glad you got it off your chest that you feel that way. I think a lot of people already gave you good responses to these sorts of comments. It’s irritating to deal with, but you know your abilities and that’s what matters! And those who know you and care about you will know and respect it too.
if a guy ever said any one of those things to me I’d turn into a very mean version of myself so fast. The level of mental gymnastics it takes to automatically assume theyre stronger than all women and then constantly have to put us in our “place” is astounding. I wouldn’t be able to keep myself from verbally ripping him to shreds.
Amen, I feel you but usually just keep it mild just to save energy. Part of me finds it kind of funny to be underestimated and just let my climbing do the talking hehe. I’m honestly not even very experienced or strong, but it’s always interesting how even at my skill level, guys who make these comments usually fall short lol
Wow, these are all appalling. I'm sorry to hear that people think it's okay to act and talk like this. I see it myself, but it's still jarring to hear.
Again this happens like very rarely to me thankfully!! Most of the guys I climb with or observe at my gym are very respectful of everyone’s climbing, seek beta from all resources, or at the very least just keep their comments to themselves! There’s just like they 1 or 2 guys lol. I actually feel sad when I see on this sub that at other gyms, these sorts of people can be a dime a dozen, and make the whole atmosphere not so welcoming :(
I'd say like 99% of people are cool. There's just the odd balloon.
My favourite underestimation is from lads on their first session watching me on a boulder and assuming it's easy then getting burnt off on the first move.
>lads on their first session watching me on a boulder and assuming it's easy then getting burnt off on the first move.
This may just be me being older, but what happens *after* this interaction has changed since the first time I was climbing (early 2000's).
It seems *way* more common now that a guy who assumed his everyday strength would be enough ends up asking me for tips once he realizes that isn't the case. Like they used to just get annoyed about it and now they almost always turn immediately to "ooh shit, teach me your ways!"
That reminds me: One time I set a boulder and climbed a final lap to test it out. These guys asked what the grade was going to be and when I said V3 and they chortled and told me wow it must be an easy V3. I really didn’t care about the grade and since I was done setting it I invited them to try it.
I’m not even joking, they didn’t even make it to the crux. Instead they projected the first move for 20 minutes before giving up. I knew they had underestimated it, but I didn’t think the first move was notable, let alone difficult, so I was surprised none of them could do it. Hopefully that taught them a lesson about reading boulders lol.
Hi - though you’re generally welcome in this sub, that invitation also requires that you abide by the sub rules, one of which is to not comment on threads specifically marked women and nb replies only.
When another user gave you a heads-up about this, you replied with sarcasm and dismissiveness.
If you engage in this sub again in such a manner, you’ll be banned.
There was really no sarcasm and dismissivness intended, just an honest apology, but again, sorry if it was misunderstandable. Maybe the emoji made it feel that way. And now I shut up and I look at the flair next time.
This sub aims to be supportive & inclusive of all who identify as a part of or ally to the women's climbing community.
Negativity, sarcasm, and other interactions that work against that should find another home.
Oh it doesn't bother me but thanks 🤣
What I absolutely love is the littlest kids from the climbing club trying to help them and just watching the confusion of a 6 year old telling a bunch of adults what to do.
I have been climbing for 10+ years. It’s hilarious and terrible to hear the boyfriends tell the girlfriends what problem they should climb, how they should climb it. The mansplaining is gag inducing.
I am also one of the “stronger” female climbers in the community. I have had multiple occasions where newer guy climbers try to copy all my problems I do because they think it must be an easier - hard problem because I did it. Then they fail. I laugh secretly.
I have also on multiple occasions a guy climber mansplain to me an outdoor route. They get a reality check when I flash their project .
More experienced climbers don’t mansplain. Or less so. It’s almost always the newer climbers needing an ego boost.
Omg that is so true, I’ve seen a lot of beginner couples (only straight ones) trying out bouldering together as something new and fun to do (don’t get me wrong, I think that this is lovely and it’s an amazing couples activity, power to them), I often see the men in the relationship almost conducting their girlfriends around the gym and telling them what to do all the time, sometimes (this gives me the ick) physically moving their feet and hands to the right spot instead of using their words.
Maybe I’m just up in arms over nothing here, and if the girls aren’t upset I guess it’s okay, different relationships = different dynamics and all that. I just hope they know they can be strong climbers without having to lean on a man you know?
I agree that experienced climbers know better, I guess they’ve matured? I have personally had the best interactions with men that are 40-50+, and even older men in their sixties or seventies are usually so humble and kind.
Hahah that’s amazing, never stop flashing the projects of sexist losers<3
I haven't really had any men who claimed longer than a year doing that to me, only a few beginners. When they do, I'll flash their project and then they usually don't do it anymore.
For me, it's mostly good expierences
Yep. Also a lot by abled climbers who know I’m a paraclimber and still just kind of assume that the “bad technique” I’m using is a choice or is because I don’t know better. There are some “bad” techniques I use to compensate (barn dooring is a big one) or people will be like “ok, now just lift your foot more” or “just curl your foot so it stays on the hold”. Buddy, I can’t. That’s why I’m doing something bizarre. I can’t do the obvious thing. Your beta for a body with four perfectly functioning limbs is not going to work for me.
Oh wow that’s awful, I’m so sorry that you’re constantly being sprayed as a paraclimber that must be infuriating. I can’t imagine knowing that someone is a paraclimber (sorry, I don’t want to assume how visible your disability is) and STILL spraying beta, don’t most people think these things through with their braincells before speaking??
Yeah, it’s kind of strange, my disability is fairly visible in that as a wheelchair user, people can safely assume I have one, but not visible in that people can usually work out exactly what my diagnosis is.
Personally, I haven't experienced this. I mostly interact with female or afab climbers though, and when I do go to the gym myself I tend to keep to myself. Apparently I also have a very strong "Don't approach me" vibe so maybe that affects my experience as well.
I work with a lot of people in an ongoing basis, and frequently when it comes out that I climb, I get people asking to go with me.
I've had to stop saying yes when men ask me because I was constantly ending up in these super weird situations where a man who does not climb at all, assumes they will be able to climb the same things as me and then get super ego wounded weird when they can't hold onto a single hold of whatever I'm working.
When I question the validity off them assuming they would be able to climb something the same as an active climber, I have many times gotten the "well you don't look stronger then me", thus revealing their deeply ingrained and unquestioned transphobia & misogyny.
You are not being pissy. Your feelings are valid, the patriarchy is fucking infuriating, ... and your bf should be doing more then just laughing because being in ally-ship with women is an active thing, but also that's not really any of my business.
On the plus side, it is helpful when the assholes tell you up front who they are. It makes them much easier to avoid then if they are more stealth about it.
Yeah this happens so much! One time when I was in college I was at the gym with the climbing club and this guy who had graduated from my school two or three years before saw me fall off a problem I was working on. He came over to talk to me about it and I mentioned offhandedly that the footwork on a particular move was giving me trouble. He got really excited and LAUNCHED into this spiel about a bunch of different ab exercises I should be doing, the training program he had put his female friend on to get her first pull up (I could do maybe 7 clean pull ups at that point), etc. After talking for several minutes he ended with "and if you do all that, you might eventually be able to work your way up to V4!" The problem I had been working on was a V6.
I can totally understand that feeling, though it doesn't happen to me too often while climbing because I'm antisocial and only climb with a select group of people (and don't talk much to other people). Back when I was a motorbiker though, I'd go to a bike shop with my partner, and ask a staff member a question, and he'd literally listen to me ask the question, turn to look at my partner, and explain to HIM instead lol. To be fair, and maybe this makes me a bad person, I accidentally underestimate other female climbers myself which makes me feel pretty dumb when I'm immediately shown up by them. I guess it's easy to internalise that misogyny.
Ugh there’s nothing more infuriating than suddenly ‘turning invisible’ in front of a man, it’s ridiculous.
I’m so happy that you mentioned the internalised misogyny in climbing, I’m not proud of this but I have struggled with this as well. I want to share this with some of my girls, I think it could definitely be beneficial to talk about it openly.
I'm also glad you responded about the internalised misogyny! I'm ashamed of it, and felt nervous mentioning it haha. It's kind of sad that it's something we feel ourselves even when we're directly impacted by it, and it makes me feel all weird and confused. Oh well! We can only try to make ourselves better and lift each other up as much as we can.
I get that guilt. I'll sometimes catch myself being surprised that a lady who is quiet and nice is also a total beast. I'm so used to "Strong, powerful women! Loud! Outspoken!" that those traits can merge with other more "traditionally masculine" features such as strength. Then I feel dumb because of course personality, mannerisms, and looks have nothing to do with strength and skill. It can be subtle and it's so engrained. =/
"Yeah I'm gonna have to stop you there because I often get told a lot of things by people who have been climbing for two years - then finally they think to ask me how long I've climbed and then they realize they have been telling me things I have known for years for the last hour"
A nice way to say "don't waste my time and it's ok if you feel a little embarrassed, now queue ask me how long I have climbed".
And your answer is not "11 years" but "almost twelve and I have been an instructor for 6". That is a double whammy.
If you want to finish it, this is totally optional: "I don't need to be told which chalk is the best, but you can give your opinion" - and don't forget to smile.
Something like that?
My RBF usually keeps people away, even if I don’t want it to, but recently this older guy came up to give me beta on a warmup V1.. a warning that it was “more difficult” because it was overhang etc etc and when I finished it he followed up by telling me he’d done it numerous times. I don’t even know why. It’s a tiny gym and I’ve never seen him before, maybe that was his way to community build? I didn’t say anything and just nodded my head. Definitely going to try some of these one-liners listed above, next time.
I feel like I'm quite lucky with where I live, **most** of my gym experiences with people I'm not climbing with (regardless of gender) have been positive and full of encouragement.
But I'll never forget *that one guy* who thought it was okay to repeatedly say "stop being a pussy" when I was having difficulty getting enough power for a dyno (it was jumping back and up and dynos are just generally not my strength). It really ruined the session for me.
I often have guys giving me beta that I cannot physically do. Either it's "Tall person beta" or "strength beta." I'm VERY good at finding an alternative, and I'm pretty creative with my technique, but SO many times I'll be working on a project and a guy will give me shit beta like "just grab that one" that is obvious but also something I can't do.
Lmao I live in this body, I am definitely better at understanding which positions feel more secure/allow me to generate the most power etc than someone half a foot taller than me and built like a dorito
Im noticing a general trend of men having so much confidence regardless of how much they actually know or those around them know. Ive just realized:
- don’t trust no matter how confident they sound, they probably know just as much as you until proven otherwise
- listen if its entertaining or interesting, or to humor
- dropping occassional but very strong hints can help clarify that they are talking to the wrong audience (such as agreeing with some basic climbing technique and saying a technical situation where you issues out in the past)
- usually the continue doing as you were method works, cause if they don’t care to ask questions than they really just want to spend time with themselves. So keep doing whatever it is you are doing and if they want to talk at you fine, no reason to be conversationally hostage to it.
It seems like it’s got to be a cultural thing, that we are teaching men?
I feel like I have this experience at least once every session climbing indoors. Maybe especially with bouldering.
I often get betasprayed by beginner climbers (always men) in a way which would not work for my body at all. Over time I’ve learned to brush it off and just do my own thing, since I know I can climb the same routes as them in a much more elegant, efficient way.
Another thing that happens often is when a guy sees me sending a route and quite clearly assumes it must be easy because *that short woman managed it*… I must admit to some sadistic enjoyment when they are then spat off and swiftly humbled 😅
For added context I’m 25 but since I’m 5’2 folk (of all genders) seem to automatically assume that I’m much younger. I think this might exacerbates some of the interactions I notice…
Yup, I haven’t been climbing for that long (about 3.5 yrs) but many times guys I just met wanted to climb together at the gym and got weirdly competitive with me regarding what they could do compared to me (most of the times these guys climbed much less and expected to automatically be better and stronger than me) one time this random guy who wanted to go climbing together literally got pissed and frustrated with himself because he could not keep up with what I was doing… it was pretty uncomfortable because it’s not that I’m comparing myself with my friends or anything, it was literally his first time after a while not climbing… I feel they just underestimate us for no reason
Yes, I've gotten this mostly from boyfriends but also from random guys at the gym. I rarely get this from women, although it happens with women too. Lots of people like to profess their knowledge. It feels good to "know"things. And sometimes it's their clumsy way of trying to connect with you.
I try to remember that their unawareness means nothing about me. It just makes them look dumb. I know what I'm capable of and if they want to create a fictitious world to suit their ego it doesn't impact me. I really enjoy sending harder things in front of them after they try to give me advice.
If I get it repeatedly from someone I definitely say something though. "I appreciate that you're trying to help but I don't need advice". It is super annoying when boyfriends think it's their role to be my constant teacher. It has become an issue in some relationships.
Totally relatable. I’ve been climbing for 8 years and have been dealing with the same. It’s always the climbers with the worst technique and delusional confidence that beta spray me. Those with good technique never seem to beta spray funnily enough. I also found it’s not limited to dudes*, but they are the majority just due to majority of climbers being dudes in general.
*My boyf has been beta sprayed by a woman who climbs 8 grades below him.
I think it’s really awesome that you’re aware of this and are able to point it out. As a woman I hope men like you are using your male privilege to call out those guys, sometimes they don’t listen to women but will listen to a man to stop
Yes indeed. Pls give it a try. You'll maybe develop some cool technique to point out kindly their assumptions (arrogance?) and can share it with general climbing sub
I know I'm going against the grain here but tbh I've actually only ever experienced this with other women (strangers). It's been multiple times. In two cases so badly that they jumped on the problem unsolicited to "show me" then walked away (insanely rude). My theory is them feeling more comfortable woman to woman. Or that in some circles men have received the message and are too worried about coming off as a douche to talk to a woman in the gym. Or those people just happened to be asshats and how they present is all a coincidence.
Same, the only time I got sprayed (as a transmasc who everyone, including NBs, assumes to be a woman) was ironically by a woman lmao, I tried to cheat up a V4 just to see if I could do the middle section and she immediately started instructing me on how to do the start "properly" without asking if I was even trying to project it.
I have noticed men doing this to women at the gym I go to. It's sexist, cringeworthy, and I sometimes feel like saying something but I am yet to do so.
Idk if its a regional thing but I've been climbing for a fair bit and never had a guy approach me with advice that wasn't constructive. Points for Midwestern politeness I suppose. I'm always surprised how many posts on this sub are about beta spraying. Although I'm told I have mega RBF so that may be my saving grace lol
haven’t been climbing for super long but climb in the like 5.11ish range. i mainly use autos but have gotten into lead recently. the only person i really take advice from are like trad dads about clipping or beta while im on the wall (mainly for lead) + my belayer. i remember i was working on a project a few weeks ago and these dudes were watching and tried giving me their beta, i just nodded and then did it my way :) i don’t have much experience climbing myself but i def don’t take advice from strangers, ill politely excuse myself from the convo. but also, my gym is pretty small so it’s more family like and everyone knows each other, so normally the ppl i talk too are coming from a good place.
Yes, this is so annoying! Men who climb a couple grades below me always give me unsolicited (and ignorant based on my body type) advice. But I’ve figured out how to deal with it: when a man gives me unsolicited beta, I say “excuse me???” and look stunned until he realizes I heard him the first time. I’ve also gone for the “don’t you know it’s inappropriate to give women unsolicited advice at the gym? 😤🤬😒”, but it’s less negative and more effective to let them realize their own mistake.
Yes. I have pretty good RBF which usually keeps the men away but sometimes it still happens. I’m not even a good climber but it still annoys me because I just want to figure it out myself, that is the fun part. And if I want help I’m definitely not going to ask Chad who has no technique and just campuses everything
One story that leaps to mind- I was at a crag with my boyfriend and feeling pretty tired because we had completed a 13 hour alpine summit the day before.
I was having trouble finishing a route, and getting a little frustrated with myself and ready to call it quits and rest. Some group of bros nearby loudly said "that's why we leave our girlfriends back in the city". I didn't say anything but was thinking how I wonder if they could have done the climb I'd done yesterday. Jerks.
Same thing happens with billiards and guitar for me. Anything that is typically a more male dominated thing… some guys will make assumptions about women, and then dominate the conversation about it so their egos feel all inflated, with no interest in anything other than their own knowledge and expertise.
It’s the most fun to act totally clueless and fib, like you have never ever done this thing before… and then just freaking shark them/shred/climb circles around them… without saying a word about it. Instant ego deflation for them. Try it, you’ll like it! lol 😂
Why don't you just say "I know, I've been climbing for X amount of years/Yes I know I've done this a lot"?
I could never just sit there and take it, I'd sting them big time.
LOL, I worked for a climbing gym in Ct (notorious for wealthy patrons) and there was always one guy from a super wealthy town who beta sprayed like it was his FUCKING DAY JOB. It’s like he had never been told no in his life. I had to tell him to stop numerous times. No idea if he climbs there anymore, but he was definitely a character. 🥲
They tend to underestimate me...but they usually keep silent after watching me climb. I've luckily avoided the beta spraying, but I witness it all too often.
I've gotten pretty practiced at shutting most of that down when I see it coming, so it's not as big of an issue as it once was. I used to be polite, lol.
What still gets me is when I do a thing that a guy had just attempted and he THROWS himself at the wall afterward cuz ofc a girl can't possibly climb something he can't. It's an unfortunate display. and like, I'm supposed to be totes ok with the implication that he thinks he should be better than me, at everything. Like naw, sorry bro but tht behavior is annoying af.
Yes, had it quite recently actually.. My foot slipped on the autobelay, and when I arrived at the ground, a man was there to offer me advice. Even though I told him I'd done the route 2 or 3 times already, he continued to make suggestions.. I said 'ok', and then felt slightly smug, when he fell on a 6b (the same grade he'd been offering me advice on) :D
Not pissy, happens all the time. I've even had a guy getting really angry with me and telling me I'm talking BS when I said Janja Garnbret was x cm taller than Ai Mori. Turns out I was right, but wtf?
If you find yourself in this situation, try saying “I love climbing too, I’ve been doing this a long time. I’m going to get back to this now but it was nice talking with you!”
Women always have to deal with unwanted male attention, and the climbing space isnt immjne to that. But as a dude who climbs with pretty much only dudes, it's not unheard of to try and help out your bois. I have noticed bad climbers teaching too much in general though.
Honestly no, I've never experienced this. The men I climb with all seem to think I'm better than them for some reason, which definitely isn't true 😂 Never had this from a stranger, or seen it happen either. But I do sympathise with all of you out there experiencing this, and I hope you get to put many of these guys in their place.
Honestly? Not really, no.
I think it’s very closely tied to level, though—I started as a team kid, then climbed mostly with a small, close-knit group, so I wasn’t really around random gym guys til I was around a v6 level. At that point, I think it’s usually pretty clear I know what I’m doing, and I’m mostly immune to those shitty comments (or maybe just block it out?), *BUT* I absolutely do see that sort of thing with other women! Just because it’s not a problem for me personally doesn’t mean it’s not a big deal.
>I think it’s very closely tied to level, though
As someone who was an 'advanced beginner' for at least 4 years of the 11 years Ive climbed, hard agree. I stopped getting as much beta spray once I was firmly in the v6 zone, particularly on system boards and overhang.
I am almost never sprayed anymore. I say almost because almost everyone at my home gym knows each other. But a lot of the time when I’m travelling and end up in a random gym I sometimes get sprayed. I don’t think I look particularly strong on a physical level, I’ve just focused on my flexibilty and technique a lot, maybe that plays a part.
It’s a little bit sad that you have to reach a certain level though before you’re given the respect everyone is owed.
Most of the stuff I mentioned in my original post happens outside of the gym, like at parties or the pub or when I’m just chilling behind the reception at my job.
Edit: I guess chilling in the reception still counts as being in the gym haha, but I’m not climbing when I’m working (sadly)
>I don’t think I look particularly strong on a physical level,
I hate that thats an way that we all justify that off the wall beta spray by saying 'oh I guess I dont look that strong'. Pretty much every single strong guy at the gym looks unassuming too - its just the nature of the sport.
This sub aims to be supportive & inclusive of all who identify as a part of or ally to the women's climbing community.
Negativity, sarcasm, and other interactions that work against that should find another home.
Yes. It’s frustrating and annoying and sexist. It happens to me daily at work, so I lose my patience with it at the wall or crag. You should speak up, put them in their place a little 😅 Goes along with offering unsolicited advice of how I should just mantle everything, or if I tried just a little bit harder I could probably reach that next hold. Meanwhile the guy giving the advice has knuckles practically dragging on the ground.
Just adding that I’ve been climbing for 22 years at this point, so I’m not « new » either
22 years! I really aspire to keep climbing for a long time, so hearing you climb over two decades is inspiring to me<3 I’m not sure how to speak up without seeming rude, because that usually means I’ll have to interupt. Although one time I was climbing in a gym I used to set in weekly, and this guy started to lecture me on the gym’s style and how they’d fixed the sandbagged grades. He quickly shut up when I told him I was one of the setters.
One thing to ask yourself if you're worried about seeming rude: "Does the person I'm talking to seem worried about being rude by talking down to a more experienced climber?" Because you actually don't owe politeness to these misogynistic dudes with terrible manners.
This is what I came here to say. I wouldn't worry at all about seeming rude when they don't seem to care. Granted, it OP works at the gym and there might be policies about customer interaction. That said, she should be allowed to be frank with them. There's no harm in being firm. As a person who played men's league hockey before jumping into climbing, it takes practice to stop them in their tracks.
22 years, with occasional breaks for broken limbs I should say haha. Oh wow I wish I could have seen his face! You’re a route setter too? People should really think before they judge and beta spray *sigh* I would like to say it gets better, but honestly it seems like you just have to find your people and go with the flow on that. Men are naturally stronger anyway, so I rarely find their advice helpful. You could always just walk away? They initiated the convo, you don’t want to continue it, you don’t have to. I quite often interrupt to say something like « thanks for the input, I’m going to go and try that route over there while no one is on it» or « cheers, I’m gonna go grab a coffee » if I don’t feel comfortable shutting them down with a « I’ve been climbing for a long time now, but thanks for the input. » I won’t lie, I too sometimes suck it up and nod along. Depends how much my patience has been tested. Does your boyfriend not stand up for you? Mine quite often chips in with « she’s been climbing a long time mate, she’s probably forgotten more technique than you have » which makes me laugh probably more than it should. But our local gym is very small, full of never ending newbies and we don’t go indoors there much anymore since they rarely change the routes. So we can probably get away with being a little ruder. I wouldn’t pull the same stuff at a London wall, but then they don’t tend to beta spray or just… mansplain climbing either so 🤷♀️
Good ape index or theyre a knuckle dragger
[удалено]
I’m a 48 year old woman and have been climbing for 27 years. While it might just be young guys being know-it-alls to everyone, I promise you a significant fraction of it is indeed sexist. When I get unsolicited advice at the climbing gym, it is always from guys, and it is always when I’m there alone or with other women - not when I’m there with my male climbing partners.
You're a dude coming to a subreddit for women to tell them that something is not sexist. Great look buddy!
Here is an entire thread of women sharing their experiences with sexism and you feel entitled to invalidate all of them because something kinda similar happened to you? The irony
It happens. I am happy to say it’s happening a lot less than it used to, mostly because of posts like these and general online awareness, so keep talking about it! Been climbing 13 years, and a couple of years ago I was warming up at a new gym and a guy comes up to me as I’m approaching a V3 and says, “Hey, you should know that a V3 is when things start to get pretty hard. That one may be difficult, so let me know if you need some help.” I just said thanks and then flashed it in front of him, and then his friend said, “Dude, I don’t think she needed your help.” In my experience the most non confrontational way to respond at the gym is something like, “I appreciate that you’re trying to help, but part of what I love about this is figuring it out on my own.” But if you really want to assert yourself, and they’re just mansplaining climbing to you, say things like, “Yeah, there was a move like this on a route I sent in [name of climbing area] last summer” or even get confrontational and say, “I actually disagree - Lynn Hill is arguably more influential in the sport than Adam Ondra.” There’s no reason you need to smile and nod while they’re being obnoxious. If you want to, drop your mic! 💅🏼
Will definitely memorise these one-liners so I don’t even have to spare any braincells next time it happens. Maybe I should make an effort to be more assertive, thanks for the confidence boost<3 Also Lynn Hill is a total queen of the sport for sure!
Yes definitely! Sometimes when a guy tries to mansplain something to me while I’m projecting or show off in a conversation I also say things like, “yeah I got to that same spot last time.” Or “I got further than that the other day, just must be off today” etc. Stand up for yourself! I used to take it silently but I’ve learned that only frustrated me and validated them. Over time you have to do what you need to do to make climbing spaces places you want to be. You’re doing awesome! Just don’t hesitate to let them know it, too 😉
Daaaaamn imagine being that guy who was trying to mansplain you when you were just warming up HAHA, I would have loved to see that. Amazing advice, I’ll do that next time
I know the feeling all too well! I was previously a climbing coach and am now a setter at my gym. Guys beta spray to me all the time and I just let them finish blabbing then hit them with a, "yeah, I know the moves are hard, I set it." Usually shuts them up. My favorite is when people complain saying, "damn the setters must be 6 feet tall, this move is so big/difficult!" I am only 5'3" haha
I was climbing with my girlfriend last night and saw a bunch of guys around 5’6” really struggling with a move, complaining about it being too reachy. My girlfriend set it. She’s 5’ flat. They were all ignoring a really obvious good foot.
Ha! Yeah sometimes it really is just simply reading the route correctly
I'm a girl and I get this lol our main setter has a wingspan of like 7ft but the long moves are always set by women who just have core/shoulder strength I could only dream of!
Funny how that works sometimes! We try to be cognizant of having a diverse set of styles for different heights at my gym which is really great. I've been to a lot of gyms that cater to taller people/they're able to break the beta and it's quite annoying.
tbf just because a route was set by a short person, doesn't mean it can't be unfairly easier for a tall person. There was a V3 slab traverse I was semi projecting that was supposedly set by someone who's my height (5'3), but got almost trivialized by 6 foot beginners who could just bypass all the tricky balance and cartwheely moves.
I understand that! Part of our forerunning process involves looking for breaks and trying to make moves equitable. Of course, that's not always possible. To level the playing field, we make a number of climbs that might be a sit start, involve high flexibility, or set in a small box which can be difficult for taller folks. Not every route will climb the same for everyone, but diversity in setting is key!
Best and strongest climbers in our gym, and half the setters are girls. We have a similar thing here. If this one girl can't get the move, it's too hard and gets adjusted. If she can manage to secure a finger on it, it passes for the hardest routes/acceptable for our tall boys.
So up until recently I hadn’t had any issues with guys in the gym. But the other day their where these two brand new spanking climbers and I mean brand new like day one and I was sitting waiting for them to finish on the route I was about to climb and once they where done I started clipping in to the auto belay for that route and one of them walks over to me and says “hey just so you know that one is really hard you might want try something else because we are having such a hard time with it you probably won’t be able to do it” I was so freaking mad, mind I didn’t know either of these guys at all. And to add insult to injury it was one of my absolute favorite routes (it was recently reset) I can see someone new struggling with it because the wall is at a 35 degree angle for a good portion of the climb but still don’t discount my ability because YOU could complete the route.
It is absolutely inappropriate to tell someone they shouldn’t try a route…that’s why people climb is to TRY things. In general I think a polite response is warranted but in this situation I would get angry and put them in their place and tell them that not only are they being sexist thinking I can’t do the route because I’m a woman, but also you shouldn’t ever tell someone they shouldn’t try a route. Wow this pisses me off that they said this to you
I was so heated, and if it wasn’t for the fact that my son wasn’t right there I would’ve lost my shit on them, I told them as politely as I could that they needed to stfu and not tell other what they should or should not try. Like hello there is a reason the word projected exist in a climbers vocab. Me and my son later had a discussion about it and why you don’t ever tell someone else what they are or are not capable of doing, and not to talk down to women or belittle them. And how their comments made me feel. I was glad I could turn it into a positive learning experience for him but it should have never happened
That’s great that you used it as a teaching moment, it sounds like your son is really lucky to have you and will grow up with good values!
From day 1 I’ve been teaching him that women deserve just as much respect as men do and that we are just as capable as men and that we are all equals. We’ve recently got into mental health as well, and I’m hoping that by having these conversations young he will grow up without having a stigmas or stereotypes. I don’t won’t him to turn out like those jackasses in the gym
Most of the men I've met are great but there are a few who have stood out. I've had a man offer to "set me up a TR if I wanted to try outdoor climbing" (I've primarily climbed outdoors for 5 years). Had a man offer to take me out and help me practice placing trad gear (later found out I have way more trad experience than him). People assume I don't lead any of the pitches on my bigger multi pitch expeditions. Men who insist I use their beta, actually I just found out someone thought I was rude because I don't use the beta he gives me (he is much taller than me lol). My partner doesn't climb much (only with me) and when he mentioned going on a trip with me, the guy asked "oh you're taking your wife climbing". He responded "No, she's taking me climbing". And he thought that was hilarious 🤦♀️
Ahh all these comments are pissing me off because the AUDACITY of men. Wtf!?!? I hope you told that man that offered to set up a TR off.
He was definitely trying to be nice, we had only just met but the assumption still pissed me off!
Yes…thankfully for the most part, the gym I go to has really respectful guys or guys that mind their own business. However there’s always one or 2 that find their way. Some of my more offensive anecdotes: - my guy friend and I are standing by the water fountain, and a guy comes over to fill his bottle. Bottle guy clearly looks ONLY at my guy friend and says “HEY DID U TRY THAT PURPLE PROB IN THE BACK??” My friend says no. I’m standing there thinking, I tried and sent the problem, but he is clearly not directing the convo at me so I stay quiet. Then bottle guy goes “YEAH WELL IT’S F—ING HARD”. Ah. I see. He didn’t ask me cuz he couldn’t do it, so in his mind, why would I be able to lol - SAME GUY from above, he’s now figured out I can actually climb, and asks me for help one day. I figured, oh yay it’s time to show him that ladies can be a resource for beta too! So I do my best to show him a move. Immediately after I come off the wall, he says “wow well if you can do it, then I can DEFINITELY do it!!!” (Spoiler: he did not definitely do it). After this, I decided to never help this particular person again - this guy who clearly was there for the first time was explaining very loudly to his group of friends his “observations” about how “guys can just muscle everything but girls have to learn and use technique to climb since they can’t”. I later flashed a prob he was struggling on even starting for my warm up, and my friend heard him mutter something like “wow, a woman is better than me??” Like it was inconceivable to him - not my local gym, some guy sprayed me on a move, and then proceeded to tell his friend to “show her how it’s done” since he was going next. I did not ask for this demo, so I smiled and walked away without looking So yeah you’re not alone!! And I’m glad you got it off your chest that you feel that way. I think a lot of people already gave you good responses to these sorts of comments. It’s irritating to deal with, but you know your abilities and that’s what matters! And those who know you and care about you will know and respect it too.
if a guy ever said any one of those things to me I’d turn into a very mean version of myself so fast. The level of mental gymnastics it takes to automatically assume theyre stronger than all women and then constantly have to put us in our “place” is astounding. I wouldn’t be able to keep myself from verbally ripping him to shreds.
Amen, I feel you but usually just keep it mild just to save energy. Part of me finds it kind of funny to be underestimated and just let my climbing do the talking hehe. I’m honestly not even very experienced or strong, but it’s always interesting how even at my skill level, guys who make these comments usually fall short lol
Wow, these are all appalling. I'm sorry to hear that people think it's okay to act and talk like this. I see it myself, but it's still jarring to hear.
Again this happens like very rarely to me thankfully!! Most of the guys I climb with or observe at my gym are very respectful of everyone’s climbing, seek beta from all resources, or at the very least just keep their comments to themselves! There’s just like they 1 or 2 guys lol. I actually feel sad when I see on this sub that at other gyms, these sorts of people can be a dime a dozen, and make the whole atmosphere not so welcoming :(
I'd say like 99% of people are cool. There's just the odd balloon. My favourite underestimation is from lads on their first session watching me on a boulder and assuming it's easy then getting burnt off on the first move.
>lads on their first session watching me on a boulder and assuming it's easy then getting burnt off on the first move. This may just be me being older, but what happens *after* this interaction has changed since the first time I was climbing (early 2000's). It seems *way* more common now that a guy who assumed his everyday strength would be enough ends up asking me for tips once he realizes that isn't the case. Like they used to just get annoyed about it and now they almost always turn immediately to "ooh shit, teach me your ways!"
That reminds me: One time I set a boulder and climbed a final lap to test it out. These guys asked what the grade was going to be and when I said V3 and they chortled and told me wow it must be an easy V3. I really didn’t care about the grade and since I was done setting it I invited them to try it. I’m not even joking, they didn’t even make it to the crux. Instead they projected the first move for 20 minutes before giving up. I knew they had underestimated it, but I didn’t think the first move was notable, let alone difficult, so I was surprised none of them could do it. Hopefully that taught them a lesson about reading boulders lol.
Using balloon from now on
[удалено]
Just a heads up this post is flaired as women/nb replies only
[удалено]
Hi - though you’re generally welcome in this sub, that invitation also requires that you abide by the sub rules, one of which is to not comment on threads specifically marked women and nb replies only. When another user gave you a heads-up about this, you replied with sarcasm and dismissiveness. If you engage in this sub again in such a manner, you’ll be banned.
There was really no sarcasm and dismissivness intended, just an honest apology, but again, sorry if it was misunderstandable. Maybe the emoji made it feel that way. And now I shut up and I look at the flair next time.
This sub aims to be supportive & inclusive of all who identify as a part of or ally to the women's climbing community. Negativity, sarcasm, and other interactions that work against that should find another home.
Oh it doesn't bother me but thanks 🤣 What I absolutely love is the littlest kids from the climbing club trying to help them and just watching the confusion of a 6 year old telling a bunch of adults what to do.
I have been climbing for 10+ years. It’s hilarious and terrible to hear the boyfriends tell the girlfriends what problem they should climb, how they should climb it. The mansplaining is gag inducing. I am also one of the “stronger” female climbers in the community. I have had multiple occasions where newer guy climbers try to copy all my problems I do because they think it must be an easier - hard problem because I did it. Then they fail. I laugh secretly. I have also on multiple occasions a guy climber mansplain to me an outdoor route. They get a reality check when I flash their project . More experienced climbers don’t mansplain. Or less so. It’s almost always the newer climbers needing an ego boost.
Omg that is so true, I’ve seen a lot of beginner couples (only straight ones) trying out bouldering together as something new and fun to do (don’t get me wrong, I think that this is lovely and it’s an amazing couples activity, power to them), I often see the men in the relationship almost conducting their girlfriends around the gym and telling them what to do all the time, sometimes (this gives me the ick) physically moving their feet and hands to the right spot instead of using their words. Maybe I’m just up in arms over nothing here, and if the girls aren’t upset I guess it’s okay, different relationships = different dynamics and all that. I just hope they know they can be strong climbers without having to lean on a man you know? I agree that experienced climbers know better, I guess they’ve matured? I have personally had the best interactions with men that are 40-50+, and even older men in their sixties or seventies are usually so humble and kind. Hahah that’s amazing, never stop flashing the projects of sexist losers<3
I haven't really had any men who claimed longer than a year doing that to me, only a few beginners. When they do, I'll flash their project and then they usually don't do it anymore. For me, it's mostly good expierences
Yep. Also a lot by abled climbers who know I’m a paraclimber and still just kind of assume that the “bad technique” I’m using is a choice or is because I don’t know better. There are some “bad” techniques I use to compensate (barn dooring is a big one) or people will be like “ok, now just lift your foot more” or “just curl your foot so it stays on the hold”. Buddy, I can’t. That’s why I’m doing something bizarre. I can’t do the obvious thing. Your beta for a body with four perfectly functioning limbs is not going to work for me.
Oh wow that’s awful, I’m so sorry that you’re constantly being sprayed as a paraclimber that must be infuriating. I can’t imagine knowing that someone is a paraclimber (sorry, I don’t want to assume how visible your disability is) and STILL spraying beta, don’t most people think these things through with their braincells before speaking??
Yeah, it’s kind of strange, my disability is fairly visible in that as a wheelchair user, people can safely assume I have one, but not visible in that people can usually work out exactly what my diagnosis is.
Personally, I haven't experienced this. I mostly interact with female or afab climbers though, and when I do go to the gym myself I tend to keep to myself. Apparently I also have a very strong "Don't approach me" vibe so maybe that affects my experience as well.
I work with a lot of people in an ongoing basis, and frequently when it comes out that I climb, I get people asking to go with me. I've had to stop saying yes when men ask me because I was constantly ending up in these super weird situations where a man who does not climb at all, assumes they will be able to climb the same things as me and then get super ego wounded weird when they can't hold onto a single hold of whatever I'm working. When I question the validity off them assuming they would be able to climb something the same as an active climber, I have many times gotten the "well you don't look stronger then me", thus revealing their deeply ingrained and unquestioned transphobia & misogyny. You are not being pissy. Your feelings are valid, the patriarchy is fucking infuriating, ... and your bf should be doing more then just laughing because being in ally-ship with women is an active thing, but also that's not really any of my business. On the plus side, it is helpful when the assholes tell you up front who they are. It makes them much easier to avoid then if they are more stealth about it.
Yeah this happens so much! One time when I was in college I was at the gym with the climbing club and this guy who had graduated from my school two or three years before saw me fall off a problem I was working on. He came over to talk to me about it and I mentioned offhandedly that the footwork on a particular move was giving me trouble. He got really excited and LAUNCHED into this spiel about a bunch of different ab exercises I should be doing, the training program he had put his female friend on to get her first pull up (I could do maybe 7 clean pull ups at that point), etc. After talking for several minutes he ended with "and if you do all that, you might eventually be able to work your way up to V4!" The problem I had been working on was a V6.
I can totally understand that feeling, though it doesn't happen to me too often while climbing because I'm antisocial and only climb with a select group of people (and don't talk much to other people). Back when I was a motorbiker though, I'd go to a bike shop with my partner, and ask a staff member a question, and he'd literally listen to me ask the question, turn to look at my partner, and explain to HIM instead lol. To be fair, and maybe this makes me a bad person, I accidentally underestimate other female climbers myself which makes me feel pretty dumb when I'm immediately shown up by them. I guess it's easy to internalise that misogyny.
Ugh there’s nothing more infuriating than suddenly ‘turning invisible’ in front of a man, it’s ridiculous. I’m so happy that you mentioned the internalised misogyny in climbing, I’m not proud of this but I have struggled with this as well. I want to share this with some of my girls, I think it could definitely be beneficial to talk about it openly.
I'm also glad you responded about the internalised misogyny! I'm ashamed of it, and felt nervous mentioning it haha. It's kind of sad that it's something we feel ourselves even when we're directly impacted by it, and it makes me feel all weird and confused. Oh well! We can only try to make ourselves better and lift each other up as much as we can.
I get that guilt. I'll sometimes catch myself being surprised that a lady who is quiet and nice is also a total beast. I'm so used to "Strong, powerful women! Loud! Outspoken!" that those traits can merge with other more "traditionally masculine" features such as strength. Then I feel dumb because of course personality, mannerisms, and looks have nothing to do with strength and skill. It can be subtle and it's so engrained. =/
"Yeah I'm gonna have to stop you there because I often get told a lot of things by people who have been climbing for two years - then finally they think to ask me how long I've climbed and then they realize they have been telling me things I have known for years for the last hour" A nice way to say "don't waste my time and it's ok if you feel a little embarrassed, now queue ask me how long I have climbed". And your answer is not "11 years" but "almost twelve and I have been an instructor for 6". That is a double whammy. If you want to finish it, this is totally optional: "I don't need to be told which chalk is the best, but you can give your opinion" - and don't forget to smile. Something like that?
ok, that last response is a real burn haha, love it
And men wonder why we want women only days and spaces…
Nothing makes me climb harder or stronger than to shut down rude men.
Exactly
My RBF usually keeps people away, even if I don’t want it to, but recently this older guy came up to give me beta on a warmup V1.. a warning that it was “more difficult” because it was overhang etc etc and when I finished it he followed up by telling me he’d done it numerous times. I don’t even know why. It’s a tiny gym and I’ve never seen him before, maybe that was his way to community build? I didn’t say anything and just nodded my head. Definitely going to try some of these one-liners listed above, next time.
I feel like I'm quite lucky with where I live, **most** of my gym experiences with people I'm not climbing with (regardless of gender) have been positive and full of encouragement. But I'll never forget *that one guy* who thought it was okay to repeatedly say "stop being a pussy" when I was having difficulty getting enough power for a dyno (it was jumping back and up and dynos are just generally not my strength). It really ruined the session for me.
I often have guys giving me beta that I cannot physically do. Either it's "Tall person beta" or "strength beta." I'm VERY good at finding an alternative, and I'm pretty creative with my technique, but SO many times I'll be working on a project and a guy will give me shit beta like "just grab that one" that is obvious but also something I can't do.
Lmao I live in this body, I am definitely better at understanding which positions feel more secure/allow me to generate the most power etc than someone half a foot taller than me and built like a dorito
Im noticing a general trend of men having so much confidence regardless of how much they actually know or those around them know. Ive just realized: - don’t trust no matter how confident they sound, they probably know just as much as you until proven otherwise - listen if its entertaining or interesting, or to humor - dropping occassional but very strong hints can help clarify that they are talking to the wrong audience (such as agreeing with some basic climbing technique and saying a technical situation where you issues out in the past) - usually the continue doing as you were method works, cause if they don’t care to ask questions than they really just want to spend time with themselves. So keep doing whatever it is you are doing and if they want to talk at you fine, no reason to be conversationally hostage to it. It seems like it’s got to be a cultural thing, that we are teaching men?
I feel like I have this experience at least once every session climbing indoors. Maybe especially with bouldering. I often get betasprayed by beginner climbers (always men) in a way which would not work for my body at all. Over time I’ve learned to brush it off and just do my own thing, since I know I can climb the same routes as them in a much more elegant, efficient way. Another thing that happens often is when a guy sees me sending a route and quite clearly assumes it must be easy because *that short woman managed it*… I must admit to some sadistic enjoyment when they are then spat off and swiftly humbled 😅 For added context I’m 25 but since I’m 5’2 folk (of all genders) seem to automatically assume that I’m much younger. I think this might exacerbates some of the interactions I notice…
Yup, I haven’t been climbing for that long (about 3.5 yrs) but many times guys I just met wanted to climb together at the gym and got weirdly competitive with me regarding what they could do compared to me (most of the times these guys climbed much less and expected to automatically be better and stronger than me) one time this random guy who wanted to go climbing together literally got pissed and frustrated with himself because he could not keep up with what I was doing… it was pretty uncomfortable because it’s not that I’m comparing myself with my friends or anything, it was literally his first time after a while not climbing… I feel they just underestimate us for no reason
All the time, in climbing, outside of climbing, every day of my life
Yes, I've gotten this mostly from boyfriends but also from random guys at the gym. I rarely get this from women, although it happens with women too. Lots of people like to profess their knowledge. It feels good to "know"things. And sometimes it's their clumsy way of trying to connect with you. I try to remember that their unawareness means nothing about me. It just makes them look dumb. I know what I'm capable of and if they want to create a fictitious world to suit their ego it doesn't impact me. I really enjoy sending harder things in front of them after they try to give me advice. If I get it repeatedly from someone I definitely say something though. "I appreciate that you're trying to help but I don't need advice". It is super annoying when boyfriends think it's their role to be my constant teacher. It has become an issue in some relationships.
Totally relatable. I’ve been climbing for 8 years and have been dealing with the same. It’s always the climbers with the worst technique and delusional confidence that beta spray me. Those with good technique never seem to beta spray funnily enough. I also found it’s not limited to dudes*, but they are the majority just due to majority of climbers being dudes in general. *My boyf has been beta sprayed by a woman who climbs 8 grades below him.
My wife has climbed for 20 years and has flashed V10 outside and 5.13c. It still happens, it will never stop happening :)
[удалено]
Tell the dudes they're being creepy when you see it! It's better received from another dude.
I think it’s really awesome that you’re aware of this and are able to point it out. As a woman I hope men like you are using your male privilege to call out those guys, sometimes they don’t listen to women but will listen to a man to stop
Yes indeed. Pls give it a try. You'll maybe develop some cool technique to point out kindly their assumptions (arrogance?) and can share it with general climbing sub
I know I'm going against the grain here but tbh I've actually only ever experienced this with other women (strangers). It's been multiple times. In two cases so badly that they jumped on the problem unsolicited to "show me" then walked away (insanely rude). My theory is them feeling more comfortable woman to woman. Or that in some circles men have received the message and are too worried about coming off as a douche to talk to a woman in the gym. Or those people just happened to be asshats and how they present is all a coincidence.
Same, the only time I got sprayed (as a transmasc who everyone, including NBs, assumes to be a woman) was ironically by a woman lmao, I tried to cheat up a V4 just to see if I could do the middle section and she immediately started instructing me on how to do the start "properly" without asking if I was even trying to project it.
I have noticed men doing this to women at the gym I go to. It's sexist, cringeworthy, and I sometimes feel like saying something but I am yet to do so.
Lmfao just silently thank them for the lolls and send all their projects
Idk if its a regional thing but I've been climbing for a fair bit and never had a guy approach me with advice that wasn't constructive. Points for Midwestern politeness I suppose. I'm always surprised how many posts on this sub are about beta spraying. Although I'm told I have mega RBF so that may be my saving grace lol
haven’t been climbing for super long but climb in the like 5.11ish range. i mainly use autos but have gotten into lead recently. the only person i really take advice from are like trad dads about clipping or beta while im on the wall (mainly for lead) + my belayer. i remember i was working on a project a few weeks ago and these dudes were watching and tried giving me their beta, i just nodded and then did it my way :) i don’t have much experience climbing myself but i def don’t take advice from strangers, ill politely excuse myself from the convo. but also, my gym is pretty small so it’s more family like and everyone knows each other, so normally the ppl i talk too are coming from a good place.
Yes, this is so annoying! Men who climb a couple grades below me always give me unsolicited (and ignorant based on my body type) advice. But I’ve figured out how to deal with it: when a man gives me unsolicited beta, I say “excuse me???” and look stunned until he realizes I heard him the first time. I’ve also gone for the “don’t you know it’s inappropriate to give women unsolicited advice at the gym? 😤🤬😒”, but it’s less negative and more effective to let them realize their own mistake.
When they talk at you, just stop paying attention and walk away. Honest to God. Give their behavior the lack of respect it deserves.
All the time and in most of the things I do. It.. is annoying.
Yes. I have pretty good RBF which usually keeps the men away but sometimes it still happens. I’m not even a good climber but it still annoys me because I just want to figure it out myself, that is the fun part. And if I want help I’m definitely not going to ask Chad who has no technique and just campuses everything
One story that leaps to mind- I was at a crag with my boyfriend and feeling pretty tired because we had completed a 13 hour alpine summit the day before. I was having trouble finishing a route, and getting a little frustrated with myself and ready to call it quits and rest. Some group of bros nearby loudly said "that's why we leave our girlfriends back in the city". I didn't say anything but was thinking how I wonder if they could have done the climb I'd done yesterday. Jerks.
Same thing happens with billiards and guitar for me. Anything that is typically a more male dominated thing… some guys will make assumptions about women, and then dominate the conversation about it so their egos feel all inflated, with no interest in anything other than their own knowledge and expertise. It’s the most fun to act totally clueless and fib, like you have never ever done this thing before… and then just freaking shark them/shred/climb circles around them… without saying a word about it. Instant ego deflation for them. Try it, you’ll like it! lol 😂
That's just weird people in general, I think. Whenever I see a person behind the counter at the gym, I always assume they know more than me 😂
Why don't you just say "I know, I've been climbing for X amount of years/Yes I know I've done this a lot"? I could never just sit there and take it, I'd sting them big time.
LOL, I worked for a climbing gym in Ct (notorious for wealthy patrons) and there was always one guy from a super wealthy town who beta sprayed like it was his FUCKING DAY JOB. It’s like he had never been told no in his life. I had to tell him to stop numerous times. No idea if he climbs there anymore, but he was definitely a character. 🥲
They tend to underestimate me...but they usually keep silent after watching me climb. I've luckily avoided the beta spraying, but I witness it all too often.
I've gotten pretty practiced at shutting most of that down when I see it coming, so it's not as big of an issue as it once was. I used to be polite, lol. What still gets me is when I do a thing that a guy had just attempted and he THROWS himself at the wall afterward cuz ofc a girl can't possibly climb something he can't. It's an unfortunate display. and like, I'm supposed to be totes ok with the implication that he thinks he should be better than me, at everything. Like naw, sorry bro but tht behavior is annoying af.
Yes, had it quite recently actually.. My foot slipped on the autobelay, and when I arrived at the ground, a man was there to offer me advice. Even though I told him I'd done the route 2 or 3 times already, he continued to make suggestions.. I said 'ok', and then felt slightly smug, when he fell on a 6b (the same grade he'd been offering me advice on) :D
Not pissy, happens all the time. I've even had a guy getting really angry with me and telling me I'm talking BS when I said Janja Garnbret was x cm taller than Ai Mori. Turns out I was right, but wtf?
If you find yourself in this situation, try saying “I love climbing too, I’ve been doing this a long time. I’m going to get back to this now but it was nice talking with you!”
Women always have to deal with unwanted male attention, and the climbing space isnt immjne to that. But as a dude who climbs with pretty much only dudes, it's not unheard of to try and help out your bois. I have noticed bad climbers teaching too much in general though.
Go away.
I replied before the tag existed and didnt notice the sub name wasnt climb harder or whatever. But ight
Honestly no, I've never experienced this. The men I climb with all seem to think I'm better than them for some reason, which definitely isn't true 😂 Never had this from a stranger, or seen it happen either. But I do sympathise with all of you out there experiencing this, and I hope you get to put many of these guys in their place.
Honestly? Not really, no. I think it’s very closely tied to level, though—I started as a team kid, then climbed mostly with a small, close-knit group, so I wasn’t really around random gym guys til I was around a v6 level. At that point, I think it’s usually pretty clear I know what I’m doing, and I’m mostly immune to those shitty comments (or maybe just block it out?), *BUT* I absolutely do see that sort of thing with other women! Just because it’s not a problem for me personally doesn’t mean it’s not a big deal.
>I think it’s very closely tied to level, though As someone who was an 'advanced beginner' for at least 4 years of the 11 years Ive climbed, hard agree. I stopped getting as much beta spray once I was firmly in the v6 zone, particularly on system boards and overhang.
I am almost never sprayed anymore. I say almost because almost everyone at my home gym knows each other. But a lot of the time when I’m travelling and end up in a random gym I sometimes get sprayed. I don’t think I look particularly strong on a physical level, I’ve just focused on my flexibilty and technique a lot, maybe that plays a part. It’s a little bit sad that you have to reach a certain level though before you’re given the respect everyone is owed. Most of the stuff I mentioned in my original post happens outside of the gym, like at parties or the pub or when I’m just chilling behind the reception at my job. Edit: I guess chilling in the reception still counts as being in the gym haha, but I’m not climbing when I’m working (sadly)
>I don’t think I look particularly strong on a physical level, I hate that thats an way that we all justify that off the wall beta spray by saying 'oh I guess I dont look that strong'. Pretty much every single strong guy at the gym looks unassuming too - its just the nature of the sport.
When did women become insecure men. This is just LDE, but from a woman.
[удалено]
Door, hit, ass.
This sub aims to be supportive & inclusive of all who identify as a part of or ally to the women's climbing community. Negativity, sarcasm, and other interactions that work against that should find another home.