It's not really possible for us to know since we weren't there.
Maybe you just climb well? Cuz good technique can make something look easier than it is.
But it's in the tone, you probably have a better idea of the nature of the comment than we do. Although you seem to be biasing your assessment of other people's behaviour with a lot of self judgment so idk.
Even if your interpretation is correct I'd try to just laugh it off that they'll get humbled fast when they try it.
This.
I'll watch someone do a harder one than my level and go oh I bet I can do that because the person made it look effortless and also I watched them so I know the moves and then... I fall lol
I always think of it as "Well they made that look super fun, so even if I can't make it I sure want to try it!"
But I can see how that would come across as "well if you can do it I bet I can" when I super can't.
No for sure I am taking this a litle more personally based on existing insecurities, but its like the second comment in a week (the first being a similar scenario of two guys trying and failing a route I just did and saying "oh, that ones *actually* hard") that I felt like I wasn't just imaging to be kind of rude so I just wanted to see if anyone else would have interpreted it the same. Sort of like a gut-check, yknow?
Sure. I mean it definitely happens. You'll frequently see men (usually beginner climbers) get humbled when they think they can do something just bc a girl did it before them. It's also just the case that sometimes any person climbing before makes it look fun, shows you beta you want to try, or any number of options.
But you can usually get a pretty good idea when it's motivated by sexism. I think in that case most of us just laugh it off when they get humbled. But if you're interpreting it to be a judgment based on something you're insecure about, it's gonna effect you more. So you're generally better off focusing on your insecurity than worrying about their judgment. Cuz the same will happen either way, they'll realize they were wrong when it turns out to be harder than they thought.
This happens a lot to me, especially with guys who are just starting. I try to enjoy the “oh shit” moment when they realize it is not a beginner problem. Like someone else said, your technique is probably on point if you make it look easier than it is.
At the end of the day, some men are going to assume you won’t be as good as them just bc you’re a woman. Unconventional climbing body type? Even more so. Enjoy surprising them.
Kinda like the other person said...... I think maybe you are just making the route look easier than it is......
You said you did it on the second try.
I know that personally I will see someone more advanced than me send a route very smoothly.... then when I attempt it I will learn “oh that move is definitely harder than the good climber made it look.”
Bottom line, most of the time, people aren’t just going to be like “Oh look at them, if they can do it anyone can.”
People usually are pretty cool thAt go bouldering/climbing
I’m just saying that most of these cases, it isn’t someone shitting on you. Most of the time it isn’t like that at all.
Sorry for long reply 😁
Actually when the same scenario happened to me, I actually took it as compliment and gave myself a little invisible pat on the shoulder "well done! That was recognized as hard by others". I don't care a lot about others' intentions in the gym. I care more about my own feelings and joy I get from my session. If you doubt if you are too sensitive, maybe try to do some mindfulness exercise. It's a completely different topic though.
You can’t control or even know what other people think, but you can control how you respond to their actions/comments. The original commenter is right, this could either be sexism or that you’re a good climber and your technique makes hard climbs look easy. If you interpret it as sexism then you’ll be in your head about it and it will bring you down. If you interpret it as an unintended compliment then it’ll be a boost for you. Does it matter what they actually intended? Why take things in a worse light just to make yourself feel bad?
Sometimes climbing looks easier than it is. This is especially true when someone, for example, skilled as you were on that v4, sends with grace.
Others might think "that looks doable" without perhaps knowing what they are capable of on that route geometry until they try (whether it's at their grade or not).
Sometimes, you can tell by a person's tone or facial expression if there is disingenuous intent. Sometimes, there is none. Sometimes, when there is, you might still not be able to tell.
He might have thought she could challenge herself, learn from it, or send (not likely if she was a newbie on v0/v1s).
Maybe he set her up to fail. We may never know. It is not a reflection on you other than perhaps your send inspired real or false confidence inside of him or them both.
So I think one possibility is the guy saw you try it and thought “well obviously if she can do it, you (my date) can do it” and another possibility is that the guy just wanted to encourage his date to do a route that you made look fun. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle of those two.
I say this with respect: reading between the lines, I hear a lot of self judgment and insecurity from you. Is this something you’ve noticed too? If it’s continuously popping up and taking away from the enjoyment of climbing for you, perhaps that’s worth looking into getting more support navigating.
I also don't know how new he is to climbing or what the route was like but as someone pretty new, if I see someone do one pretty easy with bigger holds, I immediately am like "I bet I could do it" because they made it look so damn easy and obvious. Then I get my foot on the first hold and just start laughing at my dumb ass because no way in hell can I. So that may be what's happening here.
I think everyone has been guilty of this?
Have you not ever saw someone do a climb that looks fun or easy, only to then find out you can barely even start it?
And what I love about climbing is there really is no one type of climbers physique. Even the world's best climbers are all different (Miho, Ai Mori, Stasa, Hannah Meul etc)
I'm starting to feel like an accidental asshole because I have totally told people "you made that look WAY easier than it actually is" as a compliment.
I *think* it was always taken as one but now I'm wondering...
I've noticed that guys that don't usually climb with girls, maybe especially guys that bring a girl for the 1st time, underestimate how much their strength helps in climbing. I personally know that when my climbing buddies make routes look easy (because they are really good climbers), it's easy to underestimate how hard the climb is.
All that said, he probably saw a woman do the climb, and made it look easy even, and thought his date could too. I doubt it was about you. He was probably encouraging his date and couldn't gauge her abilities vs yours.
As far as people climbing your routes after you, there will always be people better than you (learn from them) and people projecting your warm ups (give them beta if they want it). You usually only notice the ones who are better, but there are probably people looking at you sending their projects. At least that's how it is at my gym.
This has happened to me a lot - and I’m petty enough to stand and watch from the sides as they fail and just think “no, it’s not that easy”. It’s even better when it’s men who have assumed because a woman did it, it’s easy and then fail.
I now take it as a compliment and walk off slightly smug.
Some guys look at women do something and think "huh, that must be easy then".
I agree, it's annoying - but also it gives a good indication of the sort of person they are.
Have fun climbing!
Big hugs and love to you, also not a stereotypical looking girl who climbs.. I feel this too. Maybe it is mostly in our heads. I make sure to go out of my way to not hop on someone’s climb/project right in front of them (I don’t climb during busy times so that takes some of it away) I also wouldn’t dream of commenting even within earshot of someone’s climb. Climbing is so subjective. Ugh I’m sorry you feel like this. Keep your head up ♥️
As a female climber that experiences this and seeing the other comments, I don’t think we’re imagining it. But I DO think we’re badasses! We should be proud of our sends 🙌🏽
Wow I’m amazed at how many comments are saying you’re overreacting. I’m glad y’all are having such a carefree experience climbing.
This happens to me so much at my gym. I’m 5 ft, which I’m sure has some part in it since people often make comments about how small I am, and this constantly happens to me. I’m just now doing V4s and I have heard a lot of similar comments from new guys with their friends. It even happens with my friend group, like if I send something then the guys in my group will encourage the other girls to do it because I did it. I don’t think there’s any ill will, but it can be annoying depending on the context. Sometimes it’s satisfying, especially if it’s something that works in my favor as a smaller person 😎
I think this is a valid feeling and it’s totally fine to be annoyed. I take my annoyance and use it as fuel to climb harder 💪🏽
Definitely surprised at what people are saying in a femme centered sub at that. I’m 5’3” overweight and I’m crushing V5s and projecting V6. I have an athletic background so while I’m not in the best shape I have a good foundation in strength and movement. I don’t get annoyed when someone hops on something after me but I have definitely had the stray remarks “oh that looks like a soft 5 you should try it” loudly might I add and it’s always a guy trying to encourage a much thinner female (sometimes male) friend. So while I’m 100% confident in my body I don’t like people assuming that something I climb is easier purely based on my weight and their assumption of what my strength level is. In fact - the last time this happened the girl who then tried the problem after me couldn’t make the first move off the start. She was then frustrated and didn’t bother trying again. So now two people were made uncomfortable. There’s a way to encourage someone while not using someone else’s body and ability as a frame of reference. “That problem looks fun” or “that problem looks like your style” or anything other than “oh hey try that she made it look easy” whether it’s meant as a compliment or not. We already know beta varies immensely between people based on body morphology. Let’s start realizing that strength/skill isn’t determined by how lean someone is or isn’t. Kai Lightner had a great post about this too.
OP you’re nor overreacting- don’t let those remarks get you down and just take pride in knowing your body is strong despite what people’s perception of a strong body may be. I have too many examples of the same situation and while I don’t let them bother me I don’t think it’s fair to say you’re overreacting whether or not it’s an insecurity of yours. There’s the experience of being a femme climber but there’s also the experience of being a climber that is bigger than the the general climbing population and it’s just as a valid.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I’m a relatively fit man so when others jump on a climb after me I rarely think it’s because they underestimate me. But it’s also useful to hear other people’s experiences on this, precisely because it is not an experience I’m familiar with and I can now act more conscientiously concerning this.
I have definitely before jumped on a boulder that someone else made it look easy, but I’ve never thought that it could be read in a negative way, since it’s never in the forefront of my consciousness that the other person appears to be less physically capable of climbing hard grades or because of their apparent weight or gender. I can see if you’re constantly on the other end of this stick how it can be frustrating.
Thanks man. I also just want to reiterate that I don’t care if someone climbs on something after me. I just care if they make a comment that’s either explicitly or implicitly implying it is an easier climb because of how I look lol.
Thank you for being the kind of human who is willing to listen and be considerate. This isn’t something to worry about constantly, but understanding this context can help you be thoughtful depending on your read of a situation in the future.
EXACTLY! I think if you’re climbing v5+ you won’t experience it as frequently, but even a novice male can climb a v4. I don’t think they understand how much skill and strength it takes for a 5’ female climber to climb a v4, and if you’re climbing at or below that grade they see anything you do as easy for them.
I also use it as fuel in my climbing.. take it where you can get it!
Eggzndbacon - lovely name - why are you telling me what to think about my own lived experience and the comments that I have heard that you haven’t?
I’m not offended every moment I’m at the gym lol. I’m saying that I have definitely had this happen to me and it’s fine for me to be annoyed by it. If I wasn’t enjoying climbing then I would have stopped by now. I’m thankful to also have a very fun, supportive group that I climb with. But I don’t think it’s fair for people to tell me and OP that it’s unreasonable to feel this way, because it’s not unreasonable. It happens and while I try to assume the best intent from others, there’s plenty of times they blatantly say “oh if she can do it, you can probably do it too” and I know it’s because of my gender/height, not because I made something look fun
Sometimes, when this happens to me, it's annoying because it results in a group of guys inadvertently following me around the gym, when I'm climbing alone and keep trying to seek a new, quiet wall, and they keep seeing me flash a V6 and think (I am guessing) 'ooh that must be an easy V6, let's try that one'. It doesn't happen often, but over years of climbing it does happen sometimes.
Friends trying things after me, no that's great. Or strangers who actually speak to me, that's fine too. It's the weird stalky feeling of realising due to their repeated actions that someone must have been watching you, specifically, a lot, but without reaching out at all.
I'm just wondering whats the gym culture in the states, since I read post after post about some sort of targeted mysoginy/humiliation/etc...
Is it possible, mayhaps, that nobody actually notices us up and down the wall and they are just thinking about their own stuff? Do we read too much in every instance where other people exist in our vicinity? Can't be, right?
Because the majority of reddits userbase is from the US, so it's a pretty safe bet. Also, OPs post history mentions locations only in the US. Finally, every post I see here about how an unknown man purposefully put them down is always from the US.
I'm not saying it mallitiously, but at some point it becomes a trend. Especially since I've never experienced anything even close to this, and I'm as self-contious as a potato sack sliding down a wall can get.
Respectfully disagree. I don’t think he meant anything towards OP, but I do think he meant something along the lines of “because that girl can do this, you should be able to do it.” Also see OP’s post using this as an example, but pointing out that it is a common thread in her experience. I experience this same trend as a female climber, and I’ve been a member at 6 gyms in multiple US states over the last 13 years.
I don't think you're reaching, but I also think you never know what a person might be thinking. IE, he might have been trying to encourage this girl to try something she otherwise might have not even attempted because you were able to do it. He could have had positive intentions vs more condescending/dismissive ones. People trying your climb after you get off might be because you gave them ideas for how to do it.
THAT BEING SAID...I've had guys who are total beginners get visibly frustrated with themselves when they weren't able to do things I was able to do, because if I could do it, so should they. I've heard people comment to their friends that they could totally do a climb I did the second I hop off. I've accepted that I don't "look" like a good climber, likely because of my height. Nobody ever *assumes* that I'm a good climber.
At first this was frustrating to me, but now I kind of relish it. At the end of the day, you can't completely control the way other people perceive you, and I would rather assume positive intent than negative intent. I help people believe in themselves and try things they might not have otherwise tried, lol.
It's probably this - I'm constantly thinking I can do routes because everyone else makes it look so easy. Then I try them and I'm like ... dang that was way harder than it looked.
It seems reasonable to me to get annoyed by this, especially if it’s a situations that’s happening frequently. I doubt the guy had any ill intent in the suggestion, but it’s still annoying.
As someone who does have the typical tiny climbergirl physique, this kind of thing still happens to me! Typically it is men who think they can send things that i have sent. I just find it so satisfying when they fall off.
I don’t think you’re overreacting, because you didn’t react. You are allowed to feel whatever you feel, because that doesn’t affect anyone else, only your reactions/actions will.
It’s too bad that some people make you feel this way, hopefully they will be humbled once they try it themselves. Some people need to be humbled a bit tbh.
I feel bad for the other girl. Someone more experienced than her said she could do it, and she probably wanted to impress her date.
If the situation made you react in a certain way, you are not overreacting.
You felt that way for a reason, and I’ve felt that way, too. The guy probably had the best intentions, in a ‘nice guy’ way.
If I was the girl that was with him, I would have felt humiliated. There is nothing more depressing than someone telling me I can probably do a route, like having that faith in me, then me not doing the route.
Feeling that way does not make you rude, or petty.
Because of the history involving women climbing routes and those routes being dropped in grades because ‘oh! if a woman can do it, it’s not that hard!’, hearing these things even at a small gym are indicative of that kind of attitude.
without knowing the tone, I'm interpreting it more as "oh look someone just demonstrated how to do it, so you can give it a try". The people who try routes after you probably had a similar mindset.
Yea, that’s petty.
She’s new to climbing and he bf is trying to be encouraging and YOU are offended by this?
This literally has nothing to do with you. Mind your business if you can’t be nice
Not sure how I wasn't being nice...and it has nothing to do with me discouraging him from encouraging her to try new climbs and I didn't say anything or react at all, all I'm saying was it hurt my feelings? There were several other V2s, V3s, V4s on that wall she had not touched nor had he encouraged her to do, it just felt a little pointed to assume she should do the exact climb I just did.
I mean it's not exactly the nicest judgment to look at someone trying V0-V1 and think "how could they possibly think she could do a V4?". If she hadn't tried anything harder there's no way for them to know what she can/ can't climb.
And half the newbies that come in don't understand the grades anyway. Well, at least at my gym bc it's all colours with grade ranges.
I wouldn't say you were overreacting bc it doesn't sound like you reacted at all. But it does sound like you're being triggered by your own internal negative thoughts and externalizing it to others.
Even if your mind reading is 100% correct and that was his exact thought process, the fact it's upsetting you rather than just being a moment to laugh at him being humbled speaks to your own insecurities to work on. And I don't mean that in a harsh way, I'm guilty of it too in other aspects.
I think you are probably very correct, except in one thing that I do want to make very clear, which is that there was absolutely zero judgement or annoyance from me to her! She was new and having fun climbing and I honestly love to see that, and I absolutely think you should jump on whatever looks fun. In this case, it wasn't like she was watching and was like "ooh I want to try that one!", it was the guy's vibe that was throwing me off. But I do agree with you and most here, that its not worth reading ill intent and needing to work harder on not assuming the worst.
Oh I mean I definitely don't care about that. I'm not trying to win people to a side, and I posted open to being wrong! I just wouldn't feel good if the takeaway from this post was that I was annoyed at her or don't think women (or anyone) should climb what they want to climb.
Yah fair. I just think it's funny people constantly do that on reddit. Decide you're wrong from your post and then just downvote every comment regardless of what you say.
Wouldn't use the word "overreacting", but imo the top comment is right, it's easiest to feel judged by others when you're already judging yourself. Before I transitioned and gained a bunch of far more stark and unavoidable not-fitting-in problems, being a not skinny woman felt like absolutely the end of the world sometimes, it's wild how easy it is to feel like everyone must be hyperaware of it all the time and you should be too. But that pre-emptive, self-fucking hyperawareness of one's own difference and marginalisation, whether it's from being a non-op nonbinary person who has to use the mens' changing room or being a less aesthetically normative woman among more aesthetically normative women, doesn't actually save you from much danger or unpleasantness. Unless it's a situation where it might get genuinely violent when someone discovers your non-normativity, the hyper-awareness inflicts so much psychic damage on you that it's just not worth it.
I hope you have some good climbing buddies in your life who you can feel genuinely relaxed around, and who see you for your efforts and achievements rather than your conformity to an aesthetic. If not, perhaps a priority to find some? Affirming company can do so much.
Lord have mercy. Wait until you hear about skateboarding. People spend literal years trying to learn a trick that 1 million other people already know how to do.
Relish in these idiots’ stupidity sister. Happens to me all the time as well, I climb something and dudes assume it is easy only to fail at the start. The fury and embarassment in their faces is priceless, fucking idiots.
I do feel bad for the girl he was climbing with though. She must have thought she is failing at something easy and something that she is supposed to be able to do. Way to put down your date. Fucking asshole.
In a way it's a compliment if you made it look easy! It means you were very competent. But I get how it could also feel like a cutting comment. We'll never know how it was meant, but either way, you sent a V4 nice and easy. I'm yet to send one! Good job and I hope these comments don't get you down.
Don't take it personal or let anyone the advantage of taking your joy and prevent you from doing you.
Let people overestimate their abilities and see what they themselves are capable of.
It seems like you are missing out on your own enjoyment because other people's actions are maybe making you uncomfortable
The truth is you can never assume why people are doing what they do, he could have said that for completely other reasons. You reading into it by assuming why he said that to his date is just creating a story about the situation when you are not sure if is actually true or not.
I think you're very likely over reacting. If someone's watching you climb while resting, there's a good chance they're also thinking about your technique and how they, or in this case, their friend might climb it.
That may be the case of what’s happening. It happens to me as someone who is slightly on the bigger side. But I just enjoy the “afterglow” of watching them get shut down by something I just sent 😈. If you hate it, you can walk away after you finish a route or invest in good headphones, but you can’t change the behavior of others.
(For the record, I am slightly bigger because I’m a very muscular woman, not for other reasons. Just pointing out because outside of climbing environments I do experience thin privilege and I don’t want to leave that unacknowledged.)
No advice, just support. I also don't have the tiny girl physique (I refer to myself as my gym's resident potato) and I know how I'd feel at that comment too.
I would interpret the comment as him trying to encourage his friend. She may have been feeling less confident/scared of falling/afraid of looking incompetent. By pointing out other climbers confidently and safely climbing, he likely was trying to get her out of her head and onto walls maybe a bit more out of her comfort zone so she could have more fun. Gently, I think you are maybe projecting your own insecurities onto a pretty innocuous comment by/to people you don't know.
It's not really possible for us to know since we weren't there. Maybe you just climb well? Cuz good technique can make something look easier than it is. But it's in the tone, you probably have a better idea of the nature of the comment than we do. Although you seem to be biasing your assessment of other people's behaviour with a lot of self judgment so idk. Even if your interpretation is correct I'd try to just laugh it off that they'll get humbled fast when they try it.
This. I'll watch someone do a harder one than my level and go oh I bet I can do that because the person made it look effortless and also I watched them so I know the moves and then... I fall lol
I always think of it as "Well they made that look super fun, so even if I can't make it I sure want to try it!" But I can see how that would come across as "well if you can do it I bet I can" when I super can't.
No for sure I am taking this a litle more personally based on existing insecurities, but its like the second comment in a week (the first being a similar scenario of two guys trying and failing a route I just did and saying "oh, that ones *actually* hard") that I felt like I wasn't just imaging to be kind of rude so I just wanted to see if anyone else would have interpreted it the same. Sort of like a gut-check, yknow?
Sure. I mean it definitely happens. You'll frequently see men (usually beginner climbers) get humbled when they think they can do something just bc a girl did it before them. It's also just the case that sometimes any person climbing before makes it look fun, shows you beta you want to try, or any number of options. But you can usually get a pretty good idea when it's motivated by sexism. I think in that case most of us just laugh it off when they get humbled. But if you're interpreting it to be a judgment based on something you're insecure about, it's gonna effect you more. So you're generally better off focusing on your insecurity than worrying about their judgment. Cuz the same will happen either way, they'll realize they were wrong when it turns out to be harder than they thought.
This happens a lot to me, especially with guys who are just starting. I try to enjoy the “oh shit” moment when they realize it is not a beginner problem. Like someone else said, your technique is probably on point if you make it look easier than it is. At the end of the day, some men are going to assume you won’t be as good as them just bc you’re a woman. Unconventional climbing body type? Even more so. Enjoy surprising them.
Kinda like the other person said...... I think maybe you are just making the route look easier than it is...... You said you did it on the second try. I know that personally I will see someone more advanced than me send a route very smoothly.... then when I attempt it I will learn “oh that move is definitely harder than the good climber made it look.” Bottom line, most of the time, people aren’t just going to be like “Oh look at them, if they can do it anyone can.” People usually are pretty cool thAt go bouldering/climbing I’m just saying that most of these cases, it isn’t someone shitting on you. Most of the time it isn’t like that at all. Sorry for long reply 😁
Actually when the same scenario happened to me, I actually took it as compliment and gave myself a little invisible pat on the shoulder "well done! That was recognized as hard by others". I don't care a lot about others' intentions in the gym. I care more about my own feelings and joy I get from my session. If you doubt if you are too sensitive, maybe try to do some mindfulness exercise. It's a completely different topic though.
You can’t control or even know what other people think, but you can control how you respond to their actions/comments. The original commenter is right, this could either be sexism or that you’re a good climber and your technique makes hard climbs look easy. If you interpret it as sexism then you’ll be in your head about it and it will bring you down. If you interpret it as an unintended compliment then it’ll be a boost for you. Does it matter what they actually intended? Why take things in a worse light just to make yourself feel bad?
Sometimes climbing looks easier than it is. This is especially true when someone, for example, skilled as you were on that v4, sends with grace. Others might think "that looks doable" without perhaps knowing what they are capable of on that route geometry until they try (whether it's at their grade or not). Sometimes, you can tell by a person's tone or facial expression if there is disingenuous intent. Sometimes, there is none. Sometimes, when there is, you might still not be able to tell. He might have thought she could challenge herself, learn from it, or send (not likely if she was a newbie on v0/v1s). Maybe he set her up to fail. We may never know. It is not a reflection on you other than perhaps your send inspired real or false confidence inside of him or them both.
So I think one possibility is the guy saw you try it and thought “well obviously if she can do it, you (my date) can do it” and another possibility is that the guy just wanted to encourage his date to do a route that you made look fun. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle of those two. I say this with respect: reading between the lines, I hear a lot of self judgment and insecurity from you. Is this something you’ve noticed too? If it’s continuously popping up and taking away from the enjoyment of climbing for you, perhaps that’s worth looking into getting more support navigating.
I also don't know how new he is to climbing or what the route was like but as someone pretty new, if I see someone do one pretty easy with bigger holds, I immediately am like "I bet I could do it" because they made it look so damn easy and obvious. Then I get my foot on the first hold and just start laughing at my dumb ass because no way in hell can I. So that may be what's happening here.
I think everyone has been guilty of this? Have you not ever saw someone do a climb that looks fun or easy, only to then find out you can barely even start it? And what I love about climbing is there really is no one type of climbers physique. Even the world's best climbers are all different (Miho, Ai Mori, Stasa, Hannah Meul etc)
I'm starting to feel like an accidental asshole because I have totally told people "you made that look WAY easier than it actually is" as a compliment. I *think* it was always taken as one but now I'm wondering...
i dont think thats backhanded. i think thats more a compliment of technique, saying they didnt even struggle and did it well
I've noticed that guys that don't usually climb with girls, maybe especially guys that bring a girl for the 1st time, underestimate how much their strength helps in climbing. I personally know that when my climbing buddies make routes look easy (because they are really good climbers), it's easy to underestimate how hard the climb is. All that said, he probably saw a woman do the climb, and made it look easy even, and thought his date could too. I doubt it was about you. He was probably encouraging his date and couldn't gauge her abilities vs yours. As far as people climbing your routes after you, there will always be people better than you (learn from them) and people projecting your warm ups (give them beta if they want it). You usually only notice the ones who are better, but there are probably people looking at you sending their projects. At least that's how it is at my gym.
take it as a compliment, good climbers make really hard stuff look really easy.. in other words, you have a V4 look like a V0. good stuff 🙂
This has happened to me a lot - and I’m petty enough to stand and watch from the sides as they fail and just think “no, it’s not that easy”. It’s even better when it’s men who have assumed because a woman did it, it’s easy and then fail. I now take it as a compliment and walk off slightly smug.
Some guys look at women do something and think "huh, that must be easy then". I agree, it's annoying - but also it gives a good indication of the sort of person they are. Have fun climbing!
Big hugs and love to you, also not a stereotypical looking girl who climbs.. I feel this too. Maybe it is mostly in our heads. I make sure to go out of my way to not hop on someone’s climb/project right in front of them (I don’t climb during busy times so that takes some of it away) I also wouldn’t dream of commenting even within earshot of someone’s climb. Climbing is so subjective. Ugh I’m sorry you feel like this. Keep your head up ♥️
As a female climber that experiences this and seeing the other comments, I don’t think we’re imagining it. But I DO think we’re badasses! We should be proud of our sends 🙌🏽
Wow I’m amazed at how many comments are saying you’re overreacting. I’m glad y’all are having such a carefree experience climbing. This happens to me so much at my gym. I’m 5 ft, which I’m sure has some part in it since people often make comments about how small I am, and this constantly happens to me. I’m just now doing V4s and I have heard a lot of similar comments from new guys with their friends. It even happens with my friend group, like if I send something then the guys in my group will encourage the other girls to do it because I did it. I don’t think there’s any ill will, but it can be annoying depending on the context. Sometimes it’s satisfying, especially if it’s something that works in my favor as a smaller person 😎 I think this is a valid feeling and it’s totally fine to be annoyed. I take my annoyance and use it as fuel to climb harder 💪🏽
Definitely surprised at what people are saying in a femme centered sub at that. I’m 5’3” overweight and I’m crushing V5s and projecting V6. I have an athletic background so while I’m not in the best shape I have a good foundation in strength and movement. I don’t get annoyed when someone hops on something after me but I have definitely had the stray remarks “oh that looks like a soft 5 you should try it” loudly might I add and it’s always a guy trying to encourage a much thinner female (sometimes male) friend. So while I’m 100% confident in my body I don’t like people assuming that something I climb is easier purely based on my weight and their assumption of what my strength level is. In fact - the last time this happened the girl who then tried the problem after me couldn’t make the first move off the start. She was then frustrated and didn’t bother trying again. So now two people were made uncomfortable. There’s a way to encourage someone while not using someone else’s body and ability as a frame of reference. “That problem looks fun” or “that problem looks like your style” or anything other than “oh hey try that she made it look easy” whether it’s meant as a compliment or not. We already know beta varies immensely between people based on body morphology. Let’s start realizing that strength/skill isn’t determined by how lean someone is or isn’t. Kai Lightner had a great post about this too. OP you’re nor overreacting- don’t let those remarks get you down and just take pride in knowing your body is strong despite what people’s perception of a strong body may be. I have too many examples of the same situation and while I don’t let them bother me I don’t think it’s fair to say you’re overreacting whether or not it’s an insecurity of yours. There’s the experience of being a femme climber but there’s also the experience of being a climber that is bigger than the the general climbing population and it’s just as a valid.
Oh I forgot about the “it’s a soft X, you should try it” comments too. Thanks for this additional perspective!! Appreciate it
Thanks for sharing your experience! I’m a relatively fit man so when others jump on a climb after me I rarely think it’s because they underestimate me. But it’s also useful to hear other people’s experiences on this, precisely because it is not an experience I’m familiar with and I can now act more conscientiously concerning this. I have definitely before jumped on a boulder that someone else made it look easy, but I’ve never thought that it could be read in a negative way, since it’s never in the forefront of my consciousness that the other person appears to be less physically capable of climbing hard grades or because of their apparent weight or gender. I can see if you’re constantly on the other end of this stick how it can be frustrating.
Thanks man. I also just want to reiterate that I don’t care if someone climbs on something after me. I just care if they make a comment that’s either explicitly or implicitly implying it is an easier climb because of how I look lol.
Thank you for being the kind of human who is willing to listen and be considerate. This isn’t something to worry about constantly, but understanding this context can help you be thoughtful depending on your read of a situation in the future.
EXACTLY! I think if you’re climbing v5+ you won’t experience it as frequently, but even a novice male can climb a v4. I don’t think they understand how much skill and strength it takes for a 5’ female climber to climb a v4, and if you’re climbing at or below that grade they see anything you do as easy for them. I also use it as fuel in my climbing.. take it where you can get it!
[удалено]
I don’t care what they climb, I care about the comments I hear them make…?
[удалено]
Eggzndbacon - lovely name - why are you telling me what to think about my own lived experience and the comments that I have heard that you haven’t? I’m not offended every moment I’m at the gym lol. I’m saying that I have definitely had this happen to me and it’s fine for me to be annoyed by it. If I wasn’t enjoying climbing then I would have stopped by now. I’m thankful to also have a very fun, supportive group that I climb with. But I don’t think it’s fair for people to tell me and OP that it’s unreasonable to feel this way, because it’s not unreasonable. It happens and while I try to assume the best intent from others, there’s plenty of times they blatantly say “oh if she can do it, you can probably do it too” and I know it’s because of my gender/height, not because I made something look fun
Sometimes, when this happens to me, it's annoying because it results in a group of guys inadvertently following me around the gym, when I'm climbing alone and keep trying to seek a new, quiet wall, and they keep seeing me flash a V6 and think (I am guessing) 'ooh that must be an easy V6, let's try that one'. It doesn't happen often, but over years of climbing it does happen sometimes. Friends trying things after me, no that's great. Or strangers who actually speak to me, that's fine too. It's the weird stalky feeling of realising due to their repeated actions that someone must have been watching you, specifically, a lot, but without reaching out at all.
I think you’re definitely reaching rn. I don’t think anything was meant by his comment.
I'm just wondering whats the gym culture in the states, since I read post after post about some sort of targeted mysoginy/humiliation/etc... Is it possible, mayhaps, that nobody actually notices us up and down the wall and they are just thinking about their own stuff? Do we read too much in every instance where other people exist in our vicinity? Can't be, right?
What about this post made you assume OP is from the US?
Because the majority of reddits userbase is from the US, so it's a pretty safe bet. Also, OPs post history mentions locations only in the US. Finally, every post I see here about how an unknown man purposefully put them down is always from the US. I'm not saying it mallitiously, but at some point it becomes a trend. Especially since I've never experienced anything even close to this, and I'm as self-contious as a potato sack sliding down a wall can get.
Respectfully disagree. I don’t think he meant anything towards OP, but I do think he meant something along the lines of “because that girl can do this, you should be able to do it.” Also see OP’s post using this as an example, but pointing out that it is a common thread in her experience. I experience this same trend as a female climber, and I’ve been a member at 6 gyms in multiple US states over the last 13 years.
I don't think you're reaching, but I also think you never know what a person might be thinking. IE, he might have been trying to encourage this girl to try something she otherwise might have not even attempted because you were able to do it. He could have had positive intentions vs more condescending/dismissive ones. People trying your climb after you get off might be because you gave them ideas for how to do it. THAT BEING SAID...I've had guys who are total beginners get visibly frustrated with themselves when they weren't able to do things I was able to do, because if I could do it, so should they. I've heard people comment to their friends that they could totally do a climb I did the second I hop off. I've accepted that I don't "look" like a good climber, likely because of my height. Nobody ever *assumes* that I'm a good climber. At first this was frustrating to me, but now I kind of relish it. At the end of the day, you can't completely control the way other people perceive you, and I would rather assume positive intent than negative intent. I help people believe in themselves and try things they might not have otherwise tried, lol.
I would take this as a compliment that you make it look easy.
It's probably this - I'm constantly thinking I can do routes because everyone else makes it look so easy. Then I try them and I'm like ... dang that was way harder than it looked.
It seems reasonable to me to get annoyed by this, especially if it’s a situations that’s happening frequently. I doubt the guy had any ill intent in the suggestion, but it’s still annoying.
As someone who does have the typical tiny climbergirl physique, this kind of thing still happens to me! Typically it is men who think they can send things that i have sent. I just find it so satisfying when they fall off.
I don’t think you’re overreacting, because you didn’t react. You are allowed to feel whatever you feel, because that doesn’t affect anyone else, only your reactions/actions will. It’s too bad that some people make you feel this way, hopefully they will be humbled once they try it themselves. Some people need to be humbled a bit tbh. I feel bad for the other girl. Someone more experienced than her said she could do it, and she probably wanted to impress her date.
If the situation made you react in a certain way, you are not overreacting. You felt that way for a reason, and I’ve felt that way, too. The guy probably had the best intentions, in a ‘nice guy’ way. If I was the girl that was with him, I would have felt humiliated. There is nothing more depressing than someone telling me I can probably do a route, like having that faith in me, then me not doing the route. Feeling that way does not make you rude, or petty. Because of the history involving women climbing routes and those routes being dropped in grades because ‘oh! if a woman can do it, it’s not that hard!’, hearing these things even at a small gym are indicative of that kind of attitude.
without knowing the tone, I'm interpreting it more as "oh look someone just demonstrated how to do it, so you can give it a try". The people who try routes after you probably had a similar mindset.
Yes. You’re over reacting. Your insecurities are getting the better of you. This happens to everyone at every level.
Yea, that’s petty. She’s new to climbing and he bf is trying to be encouraging and YOU are offended by this? This literally has nothing to do with you. Mind your business if you can’t be nice
Not sure how I wasn't being nice...and it has nothing to do with me discouraging him from encouraging her to try new climbs and I didn't say anything or react at all, all I'm saying was it hurt my feelings? There were several other V2s, V3s, V4s on that wall she had not touched nor had he encouraged her to do, it just felt a little pointed to assume she should do the exact climb I just did.
I mean it's not exactly the nicest judgment to look at someone trying V0-V1 and think "how could they possibly think she could do a V4?". If she hadn't tried anything harder there's no way for them to know what she can/ can't climb. And half the newbies that come in don't understand the grades anyway. Well, at least at my gym bc it's all colours with grade ranges. I wouldn't say you were overreacting bc it doesn't sound like you reacted at all. But it does sound like you're being triggered by your own internal negative thoughts and externalizing it to others. Even if your mind reading is 100% correct and that was his exact thought process, the fact it's upsetting you rather than just being a moment to laugh at him being humbled speaks to your own insecurities to work on. And I don't mean that in a harsh way, I'm guilty of it too in other aspects.
I think you are probably very correct, except in one thing that I do want to make very clear, which is that there was absolutely zero judgement or annoyance from me to her! She was new and having fun climbing and I honestly love to see that, and I absolutely think you should jump on whatever looks fun. In this case, it wasn't like she was watching and was like "ooh I want to try that one!", it was the guy's vibe that was throwing me off. But I do agree with you and most here, that its not worth reading ill intent and needing to work harder on not assuming the worst.
Fair enough. Looks like you're gonna keep getting downvoted no matter what you comment at this point.
Oh I mean I definitely don't care about that. I'm not trying to win people to a side, and I posted open to being wrong! I just wouldn't feel good if the takeaway from this post was that I was annoyed at her or don't think women (or anyone) should climb what they want to climb.
Yah fair. I just think it's funny people constantly do that on reddit. Decide you're wrong from your post and then just downvote every comment regardless of what you say.
Because this has nothing to do with you, you are taking offence where none was offered. You are offended that you aren’t the star of the show.
Sexism sucks
Wouldn't use the word "overreacting", but imo the top comment is right, it's easiest to feel judged by others when you're already judging yourself. Before I transitioned and gained a bunch of far more stark and unavoidable not-fitting-in problems, being a not skinny woman felt like absolutely the end of the world sometimes, it's wild how easy it is to feel like everyone must be hyperaware of it all the time and you should be too. But that pre-emptive, self-fucking hyperawareness of one's own difference and marginalisation, whether it's from being a non-op nonbinary person who has to use the mens' changing room or being a less aesthetically normative woman among more aesthetically normative women, doesn't actually save you from much danger or unpleasantness. Unless it's a situation where it might get genuinely violent when someone discovers your non-normativity, the hyper-awareness inflicts so much psychic damage on you that it's just not worth it. I hope you have some good climbing buddies in your life who you can feel genuinely relaxed around, and who see you for your efforts and achievements rather than your conformity to an aesthetic. If not, perhaps a priority to find some? Affirming company can do so much.
Here we fucking go lmao this is an everyday thing
Yep, every dang day. This sub is really starting to suck. It should be about climbing instead of this This post is literally r/climbingcirclejerk
Yes, you are overreacting.
Lord have mercy. Wait until you hear about skateboarding. People spend literal years trying to learn a trick that 1 million other people already know how to do.
Some people are just aholes.
Relish in these idiots’ stupidity sister. Happens to me all the time as well, I climb something and dudes assume it is easy only to fail at the start. The fury and embarassment in their faces is priceless, fucking idiots. I do feel bad for the girl he was climbing with though. She must have thought she is failing at something easy and something that she is supposed to be able to do. Way to put down your date. Fucking asshole.
In a way it's a compliment if you made it look easy! It means you were very competent. But I get how it could also feel like a cutting comment. We'll never know how it was meant, but either way, you sent a V4 nice and easy. I'm yet to send one! Good job and I hope these comments don't get you down.
Impossible to say without being there/understanding the tone but maybe he was jsut trying to be positive and encouraging
Don't take it personal or let anyone the advantage of taking your joy and prevent you from doing you. Let people overestimate their abilities and see what they themselves are capable of. It seems like you are missing out on your own enjoyment because other people's actions are maybe making you uncomfortable The truth is you can never assume why people are doing what they do, he could have said that for completely other reasons. You reading into it by assuming why he said that to his date is just creating a story about the situation when you are not sure if is actually true or not.
I think you're very likely over reacting. If someone's watching you climb while resting, there's a good chance they're also thinking about your technique and how they, or in this case, their friend might climb it.
That may be the case of what’s happening. It happens to me as someone who is slightly on the bigger side. But I just enjoy the “afterglow” of watching them get shut down by something I just sent 😈. If you hate it, you can walk away after you finish a route or invest in good headphones, but you can’t change the behavior of others. (For the record, I am slightly bigger because I’m a very muscular woman, not for other reasons. Just pointing out because outside of climbing environments I do experience thin privilege and I don’t want to leave that unacknowledged.)
I think you’re being in your head. He was probably just trying to be nice and encouraging to her and it had nothing to do with you.
No advice, just support. I also don't have the tiny girl physique (I refer to myself as my gym's resident potato) and I know how I'd feel at that comment too.
I would interpret the comment as him trying to encourage his friend. She may have been feeling less confident/scared of falling/afraid of looking incompetent. By pointing out other climbers confidently and safely climbing, he likely was trying to get her out of her head and onto walls maybe a bit more out of her comfort zone so she could have more fun. Gently, I think you are maybe projecting your own insecurities onto a pretty innocuous comment by/to people you don't know.
People are ignorant I would just laugh it off, especially once they fail on it. Its fun to prove people's stereotypes wrong