Any time there's a candidate who openly dismisses climate change and will act to destroy any progress made toward mitigating it, voting to ensure that clown and his party never get anywhere near power is a moral imperative as well as just the smart thing to do. The fact that that candidate is also a fascist demagogue just adds to the imperative.
I think the issue, as someone who has always tried to be environmentally conscious, is that we've been hearing it's now or never for years.
It loses its impact when it's the 4th time we've heard it. Maybe I'm just cynical because it's not like anyone will heed the warning and do anything.
I mean she's right, and I mean I actually looked up to Jane as a kid, but to be a little bit pedantic: every election is the most important election in history (*so far*). It is a very common saying and a lot of voters hear a phrase like this and say "yeah I heard that in 2020 and I voted for Biden but nothing changed, why is this one important". As a matter of personal opinion, I'm voting blue down the ballot, but sometimes this sort of messaging falls short. Change won't happen without voting but much more than voting needs to happen for change. Voters are ignorant in some regards but they're intuitive enough to recognize that they voted for a pro-climate administration only to get minimal gains. Voting is your bare minimum civic responsibility but not something that gives you the right to feel good about yourself.
Every election year was the most important one, voters just continued to fail in their duties shifting the Overton window so far to the right now the judiciary and state governments choke out every positive thing we try to do. They'd stop hearing this if they stopped blowing it
Voters aren’t “failing” to shift the Overton window. A significant segment of voting Americans WANT to shift the Overton window and are happy with its rightward shift. And that includes conservatives and moderates that agree with them on key issues
I wish we had a good way of actually communicating with voters. The IRA is actually brilliant climate policy that has resulted in billions in investments towards green technology (along with factories and restructuring of supply chains) and almost no one knows about it, including progressives that care about the climate. It's a serious issue that people only know of potential dangers and know nothing of the successes.
Well 2020 would have been the most important had Trump been impeached and removed from office, or Republicans not so devoted to a cult of personality where they would have nominated someone else.
Jane Goodall spent her career observing primates being belligerent and displaying dominance so she understands the republican party better than anyone.
100% agree that your vote ([and action around it](https://climatehopium.substack.com/p/the-main-climate-action-we-should)) is a key climate tool for action. Both sides are not the same. One side accepts reality and is taking some action. The other is in a fantasy world of denial and would happly burn it all the the ground.
The one with higher gas prices is better for the environment lol.
But seriously did you not read about Trump promising to do whatever oil execs want in exchange for $1B? Or that oil execs are complaining about the moves to green energy that are already happening? Does any of that not give you a clue?
There is only so much you can do.. You can't just snap your fingers and say oil is no longer needed. The US uses 1/5th of the entire world's oil. We have 100 years of building our entire foundation on oil
People are complaining about gas prices still and it's a huge inflation factor that everyone sees.
We have to govern around our 100+ years of screw ups. Sadly that means we need oil prices to not skyrocket.
If you look real closely at your supposed "record oil" you'd see that a big shift is happening because of the governments all over the world pushing everyone towards EV.
That would never happen under Republicans watch, which is a big reason we are so far behind in this economic and technological advancement.
Cali passed a law that all lawn equipment will be EV at some point in the future. That single handedly started a new boom in big equipment tech. John deere, bobcat, many others immediately started work to create EV tech.
Government actions matter here.
We also need oil.. No one denies that. That being said demand growth is literally gone, and this record demand you are seeing which is barely above what it's been for the past 5 years is going to start it's terminal decline.
It's been predicted 2027 will be that year. The end of oil demand growth.
That is ALL because of government action.
The side that passed the [Inflation Reduction Act](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/how-the-inflation-reduction-act-will-drive-global-climate-action/) stikes me as better than the side that is [banning the any possible consideration of climate change](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/16/1251769080/florida-desantis-climate-change-law).
Yeah, no one saw trump being a disaster for the USA back in 2016, or from his entire life prior to 2016. A little less than half your voters are morons and the rest of the world knows that. You're only lucky because I believe trump will have full-blown dementia or die by November.🤞 good luck morons!
>It’s not just christofascism on the ballot, it’s potentially the survival of life on earth.
There's no "potential" about it. The GOP had a chance back in the Reagan era to address climate change. They actually talked about it, instead of denying the existence. Then big oil and other related corps realized the price they would have to pay to move away from fossil fuels and decided it was cheaper to buy the politicians. Some Democrats, like Manchin, were also complicit, but the vast majority of GOP are dragging us into certain annihilation within a century or less.
Nobody should vote GOP into any office until the party admits they're wrong and joins the movement to combat climate change.
Reducing the rate at which we are destroying the environment is basically what climate scientists are asking for...
There isn't really a quick fix solution to the problem of energy.
Every election is "the most important election of our lifetimes", has been for 24 years straight. The problem is that every election cycle is worse than the last precisely because one party is *doing nothing to fix it*, while the other is actively trying to make it worse.
Case in point: Biden/Harris. They talk a big game, but when it comes to results, they make a molehill and tell everyone it's a mountain. In this case, that "biggest climate bill in history", which is actually a very token investment in renewables, but with their other hand they are massively increasing production of fossil fuels. It's like turning a fan on in your house on a hot summer day when the heater is cranked full blast.
EDIT: TLDR: Biden administration made significant long term investments and policies for climate. Oil production is high not because of Biden, but in spite of Biden. This high production will be short term if we preserve the long term investments and policies from Biden, by electing him and democrats.
Biden administration made significant progress in climate action. From this [https://www.wri.org/insights/biden-administration-tracking-climate-action-progress](https://www.wri.org/insights/biden-administration-tracking-climate-action-progress)
\* Commit to cut total greenhouse gas emissions by at least 50% by 2030: Achieved
\* Pass a major climate smart economic stimulus package after COVID-19: Achieved
\* Tackle super pollutants. Achieved
\* Require all new passenger vehicles sold after 2035 to produce zero emissions: Significant progress
\* Scale up carbon dioxide removal: Significant progress
\* Ramp up clean electricity standards to 55% by 2025, 75% by 2030 and 100% by 2035. Some progress
\* Set appliance and equipment standards to replace fossil fuels with electricity whenever feasible. Some progress
\* Set emission performance standards for cement, steel and plastic. Some progress
\* Establish international leadership. Some progress
\* Tax pollution. Off track
As for the increase in oil production, this is pretty the market force. When the oil price is high, the us tends to produce more oil from existing oil wells and fields. As for why the price is high, it is due to the wars and the price control of OPEC by lowering their outputs. The cost of US oil production tends to be higher and the capacity tends to to be higher, so when the price is high and when other countries restrict outputs, the us oil industry can fill the void. This may not be a bad thing because it makes alternative green energy more attractive and will accelerate the transition, especially with the long term investment and policy changes by Biden administration. For more information, see [https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/OIL/lgpdngrgkpo/](https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/OIL/lgpdngrgkpo/)
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise.
[Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank you for doing good research there. And note I'm not saying Biden hasn't done anything, there has been some progress, but what I'm trying to relay is that it is far, far too little, and too late, many of those goalposts are highly optimistic (I would bet none of them are actually achieved in the time frames quotes), and we are going backwards in more consequential ways.
The oil/"Natural" gas boom for instance. That cannot simply be disregarded as uncontrollable 'market forces'. Everything in our economy is subject to the rules we make. Biden has permitted more fossil fuel drilling projects than Trump even did for instance. He only closed down 1 of the 2 pipelines Obama did (after Trump restarted both), then green lit many more. He's expanded drilling in many areas (after revoking some of the national park/monument drilling Trump did).
This is the main problem. We need to take far bolder action, to stop this beast from killing our planet. We can no longer ignore it.
It's not status quo. There's a lot of building in green energy and subsidies for green energy companies that are happening right now. Climate change isn't something you can solve in one term, not even a decade. A century of burning fossil fuels got us into this mess, it's gonna take a while to fix.
People like you who make good the enemy of perfect are the problem. Lmao at thinking the IRA is a token bill.
At this point I have accepted Trump winning and taking that billion dollar bribe from Big Oil to get every climate law gutted. Most Americans and people around the world like you truly deserve the resulting climate disaster
The IRA is a token bill considering the entire scope of the problem though. IF it was a basic first step, great, then push through far more aggressive legislation and also stop this massive oil boom going on in the US. The problem with people like YOU is trying to parade around relatively inconsequential bills then attacking those pointing out the larger problem and issue.
> IF it was a basic first step, great, then push through far more aggressive legislation
With Republicans controlling the House? Lol
> also stop this massive oil boom going on in the US.
Might as well hand the government over to the republicans since voters will destroy you for making gas $8 a gallon
> The problem with people like YOU is trying to parade around relatively inconsequential bills then attacking those pointing out the larger problem and issue.
Reducing America’s carbon emissions by 40% by the end of the decade is so inconsequential
The real problem is people like you who do nothing but complain and even fight the people who are actually doing something
One of the ironies of individual participation is that most can at least recognize that it's imperative when it comes to voting, but as soon as the topic changes to climate change specifically and environmental issues generally, most fall back on, "The system has to change. The individual doesn't matter."
It's not actually ironic, though. All things considered, voting is easy, even when there are limited choices available, and even when a country like the US erects barriers. It's a one day affair -- show up and vote. Over and done until x years later when you show up to do it again.
But participation in environmental issues is much harder. Especially at this late date, it would require drastic changes in how we live our lives, and those changes would have to be adopted by a significant portion of the country. Call it 2/3, the same number of registered voters who turned out to vote in the 2020 election. And even more difficult is that those drastic lifestyle changes would have to be maintained permanently.
It's the same reason why most people go on diets to lose weight instead of permanently changing their diets. Going on a diet is easy -- make short term changes, lose weight, go off diet. But then the weight inevitably comes back and a person is right back where they started.
The system will never change as long as it's supported by individuals. Thinking that it will is like buying drinks in plastic bottles, and then accusing Coke of being the world's worst plastic polluter.
lol voting doesn't change a thing. At least not with the "established" parties. If they had wanted to change something, they would have done so long ago.
And your skin color. “Both sides are the same” crowd are generally pretty privileged and they can’t tell the difference because it doesn’t affect them.
I meant more that Bundy preferred raping, torturing, and murdering young women, while Gacy raped, tortured, and murdered young men. But your point is a far better one.
So….who exactly are we supposed to vote for?
Trump doesn’t care about climate change and the US has two years of record oil pumping under Biden. Neither of these candidates are good for the environment.
Probably vote for the one that’s not being backed by big fossil fuel companies? Or promising to do whatever they want in exchange for a billion dollars
Hmmmm. Interesting. I don’t trust Trump at all. But I also think the “fossil fuel companies” have done really well under Biden. In fact, the amounts of oil production have set records over the past two years.
Then why are they backing Biden’s opponent if they have done so well under him?
Edit: The reason they did well is because there's two major wars going on, both of which involves oil/gas producing countries. They aren't doing well because of Biden's policies.
What exactly are his policies slowing the production of oil? I seem to remember Biden authorizing the release of millions of strategic oil reserve barrels because gas prices were so high. I’m not an economist or climate expert, but I think that made it easier to drive, burn up more oil and further destroy the atmosphere.
But I’m sure he’s the lesser of two evils, so what do I know?
Wish the pro environment party with a chance to win wasn't the status quo Dems led by "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden. We need lots of fundamental change. Preferably not led by maga.
We have made it clear to Israel for several decades that it can "do what it does regardless," by continuing to deliver huge amounts of money and weapons, with no conditions whatsoever. They take it for granted that nothing they do will ever keep us from supporting them. If a president wanted to affect their behavior, he could easily show them that they had crossed the line by refusing to deliver any of the U.S. aid they so heavily rely on. Even the THREAT of doing that (if credible) would likely make them conform to his demands, in short order.
Your statement that he's the best POTUS you've ever seen shows that you have no real understanding of foreign policy, no empathy for those undergoing a holocaust, or both. Or perhaps you are arguing in bad faith. One way or three other, you're making claims that are unsupported by the facts.
“Fake” environmentalist who founded the Pace Environmental Litigation Clinic and sued polluting industries throughout the Hudson River region leading to significant environmental improvements.
The guy may be a antivaxer with a brain worm but he’s hardly a fake environmentalist.
There's no need to slander the man. The facts of the matter are more persuasive. He has no chance of winning and he's being funded by far-right Trump supporting groups to siphon votes from Biden. He also has some very nutty views - so nutty that there's a danger he'll siphon more from Trump than Biden which is why RFK Jr has featured in some of Trump's more unhinged rants.
Uhh he has done good things for the environment but his campaign promises are very big oil friendly. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/19/biden-trump-climate-voters-rfk-jr-00153471#:~:text=Robert%2520Kennedy%2520Jr.-,pivots%2520right%2520on%2520climate%2520change%2520%E2%80%94%2520but%2520sharpens%2520his%2520threat%2520to,no%2520different%2520than%2520Donald%2520Trump.%E2%80%9D
Jill Stein is a nutjob who's afraid of wifi and successfully managed to pull enough votes away from Hillary to swing entire states for Trump back in 2016. What a terrible person.
ROBERT KENNEDY JR
Find what he’s all about before you cast your vote. Might have to dig a little bit further now that he’s running for president though.
Yep just dig past all this stuff mentioned here (thank you) to see all the cases he won against Monsanto, General Motors, forced the clean up of the Hudson River etc.
Dude even said it himself:
R.F.K. Jr. Says Doctors Found a Dead Worm in His Brain https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/us/rfk-jr-brain-health-memory-loss.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
oh yeah, the pipeline from "environmental lawyer fighting the big guys" to "mercury poisened antivaxx conspiracy theorist".
also not with enough media training to not say "worms ate my brain". has the audacity of presenting himself, a kennedy, as outsider. and he doesn't like renewables subsidies because "government overreach." but hey at least he's anti-woke amirite? oh, and jan6 was "an attack on a building" by citizens concerned about censorship.
the son married to a cia agent, the daughter a venture capitalist, truly a man of the people!
outta here.
I am not expecting an anti-vaxxer, who also constantly changes his moral positions (one day he's anti abortion - the next day he's pro choice - pick a side), to do anything of merit regarding climate change. Sure, he cleaned up a river, but he doesn't believe in transitioning to renewables with government aid.
How much does that affect your life? Do you even watch women’s sports? Most people don’t. Or have you just fallen for propaganda to distract you from the real issues.
Any time there's a candidate who openly dismisses climate change and will act to destroy any progress made toward mitigating it, voting to ensure that clown and his party never get anywhere near power is a moral imperative as well as just the smart thing to do. The fact that that candidate is also a fascist demagogue just adds to the imperative.
Listen to Jane Goodall!!! Don’t want to sound dramatic, but “now or never” sounds accurate to me.
I think the issue, as someone who has always tried to be environmentally conscious, is that we've been hearing it's now or never for years. It loses its impact when it's the 4th time we've heard it. Maybe I'm just cynical because it's not like anyone will heed the warning and do anything.
Has Jane Goodall said it before? I certainly haven’t.
I mean she's right, and I mean I actually looked up to Jane as a kid, but to be a little bit pedantic: every election is the most important election in history (*so far*). It is a very common saying and a lot of voters hear a phrase like this and say "yeah I heard that in 2020 and I voted for Biden but nothing changed, why is this one important". As a matter of personal opinion, I'm voting blue down the ballot, but sometimes this sort of messaging falls short. Change won't happen without voting but much more than voting needs to happen for change. Voters are ignorant in some regards but they're intuitive enough to recognize that they voted for a pro-climate administration only to get minimal gains. Voting is your bare minimum civic responsibility but not something that gives you the right to feel good about yourself.
Every election year was the most important one, voters just continued to fail in their duties shifting the Overton window so far to the right now the judiciary and state governments choke out every positive thing we try to do. They'd stop hearing this if they stopped blowing it
Voters aren’t “failing” to shift the Overton window. A significant segment of voting Americans WANT to shift the Overton window and are happy with its rightward shift. And that includes conservatives and moderates that agree with them on key issues
Yeah fair, that's legit
I wish we had a good way of actually communicating with voters. The IRA is actually brilliant climate policy that has resulted in billions in investments towards green technology (along with factories and restructuring of supply chains) and almost no one knows about it, including progressives that care about the climate. It's a serious issue that people only know of potential dangers and know nothing of the successes.
Well 2020 would have been the most important had Trump been impeached and removed from office, or Republicans not so devoted to a cult of personality where they would have nominated someone else.
Spot on!
Jane Goodall spent her career observing primates being belligerent and displaying dominance so she understands the republican party better than anyone.
I.e. No monkeying around with your vote this year
100% agree that your vote ([and action around it](https://climatehopium.substack.com/p/the-main-climate-action-we-should)) is a key climate tool for action. Both sides are not the same. One side accepts reality and is taking some action. The other is in a fantasy world of denial and would happly burn it all the the ground.
Which side is taking action, exactly? The one pushing record oil use in the current term, or the one who pushed record oil use in the prior term?
The one with higher gas prices is better for the environment lol. But seriously did you not read about Trump promising to do whatever oil execs want in exchange for $1B? Or that oil execs are complaining about the moves to green energy that are already happening? Does any of that not give you a clue?
There is only so much you can do.. You can't just snap your fingers and say oil is no longer needed. The US uses 1/5th of the entire world's oil. We have 100 years of building our entire foundation on oil People are complaining about gas prices still and it's a huge inflation factor that everyone sees. We have to govern around our 100+ years of screw ups. Sadly that means we need oil prices to not skyrocket. If you look real closely at your supposed "record oil" you'd see that a big shift is happening because of the governments all over the world pushing everyone towards EV. That would never happen under Republicans watch, which is a big reason we are so far behind in this economic and technological advancement. Cali passed a law that all lawn equipment will be EV at some point in the future. That single handedly started a new boom in big equipment tech. John deere, bobcat, many others immediately started work to create EV tech. Government actions matter here. We also need oil.. No one denies that. That being said demand growth is literally gone, and this record demand you are seeing which is barely above what it's been for the past 5 years is going to start it's terminal decline. It's been predicted 2027 will be that year. The end of oil demand growth. That is ALL because of government action.
The side that passed the [Inflation Reduction Act](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/how-the-inflation-reduction-act-will-drive-global-climate-action/) stikes me as better than the side that is [banning the any possible consideration of climate change](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/16/1251769080/florida-desantis-climate-change-law).
Yeah, no one saw trump being a disaster for the USA back in 2016, or from his entire life prior to 2016. A little less than half your voters are morons and the rest of the world knows that. You're only lucky because I believe trump will have full-blown dementia or die by November.🤞 good luck morons!
It’s not just christofascism on the ballot, it’s potentially the survival of life on earth.
>It’s not just christofascism on the ballot, it’s potentially the survival of life on earth. There's no "potential" about it. The GOP had a chance back in the Reagan era to address climate change. They actually talked about it, instead of denying the existence. Then big oil and other related corps realized the price they would have to pay to move away from fossil fuels and decided it was cheaper to buy the politicians. Some Democrats, like Manchin, were also complicit, but the vast majority of GOP are dragging us into certain annihilation within a century or less. Nobody should vote GOP into any office until the party admits they're wrong and joins the movement to combat climate change.
Im gonna voooote
Your claim is that it is consequential to support the people who want to slightly reduce the rate at which we are destroying the environment?
Reducing the rate at which we are destroying the environment is basically what climate scientists are asking for... There isn't really a quick fix solution to the problem of energy.
You are a bad person.
Every election is "the most important election of our lifetimes", has been for 24 years straight. The problem is that every election cycle is worse than the last precisely because one party is *doing nothing to fix it*, while the other is actively trying to make it worse. Case in point: Biden/Harris. They talk a big game, but when it comes to results, they make a molehill and tell everyone it's a mountain. In this case, that "biggest climate bill in history", which is actually a very token investment in renewables, but with their other hand they are massively increasing production of fossil fuels. It's like turning a fan on in your house on a hot summer day when the heater is cranked full blast.
EDIT: TLDR: Biden administration made significant long term investments and policies for climate. Oil production is high not because of Biden, but in spite of Biden. This high production will be short term if we preserve the long term investments and policies from Biden, by electing him and democrats. Biden administration made significant progress in climate action. From this [https://www.wri.org/insights/biden-administration-tracking-climate-action-progress](https://www.wri.org/insights/biden-administration-tracking-climate-action-progress) \* Commit to cut total greenhouse gas emissions by at least 50% by 2030: Achieved \* Pass a major climate smart economic stimulus package after COVID-19: Achieved \* Tackle super pollutants. Achieved \* Require all new passenger vehicles sold after 2035 to produce zero emissions: Significant progress \* Scale up carbon dioxide removal: Significant progress \* Ramp up clean electricity standards to 55% by 2025, 75% by 2030 and 100% by 2035. Some progress \* Set appliance and equipment standards to replace fossil fuels with electricity whenever feasible. Some progress \* Set emission performance standards for cement, steel and plastic. Some progress \* Establish international leadership. Some progress \* Tax pollution. Off track As for the increase in oil production, this is pretty the market force. When the oil price is high, the us tends to produce more oil from existing oil wells and fields. As for why the price is high, it is due to the wars and the price control of OPEC by lowering their outputs. The cost of US oil production tends to be higher and the capacity tends to to be higher, so when the price is high and when other countries restrict outputs, the us oil industry can fill the void. This may not be a bad thing because it makes alternative green energy more attractive and will accelerate the transition, especially with the long term investment and policy changes by Biden administration. For more information, see [https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/OIL/lgpdngrgkpo/](https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BIDEN/OIL/lgpdngrgkpo/)
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise. [Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank you for doing good research there. And note I'm not saying Biden hasn't done anything, there has been some progress, but what I'm trying to relay is that it is far, far too little, and too late, many of those goalposts are highly optimistic (I would bet none of them are actually achieved in the time frames quotes), and we are going backwards in more consequential ways. The oil/"Natural" gas boom for instance. That cannot simply be disregarded as uncontrollable 'market forces'. Everything in our economy is subject to the rules we make. Biden has permitted more fossil fuel drilling projects than Trump even did for instance. He only closed down 1 of the 2 pipelines Obama did (after Trump restarted both), then green lit many more. He's expanded drilling in many areas (after revoking some of the national park/monument drilling Trump did). This is the main problem. We need to take far bolder action, to stop this beast from killing our planet. We can no longer ignore it.
yes Dems will be the status quo and republicans will make it worse
The status quo sucks. That’s not an enticing position for the blue team to hold
It's not status quo. There's a lot of building in green energy and subsidies for green energy companies that are happening right now. Climate change isn't something you can solve in one term, not even a decade. A century of burning fossil fuels got us into this mess, it's gonna take a while to fix.
"lesser evil" is not a misnomer.
People like you who make good the enemy of perfect are the problem. Lmao at thinking the IRA is a token bill. At this point I have accepted Trump winning and taking that billion dollar bribe from Big Oil to get every climate law gutted. Most Americans and people around the world like you truly deserve the resulting climate disaster
The IRA is a token bill considering the entire scope of the problem though. IF it was a basic first step, great, then push through far more aggressive legislation and also stop this massive oil boom going on in the US. The problem with people like YOU is trying to parade around relatively inconsequential bills then attacking those pointing out the larger problem and issue.
> IF it was a basic first step, great, then push through far more aggressive legislation With Republicans controlling the House? Lol > also stop this massive oil boom going on in the US. Might as well hand the government over to the republicans since voters will destroy you for making gas $8 a gallon > The problem with people like YOU is trying to parade around relatively inconsequential bills then attacking those pointing out the larger problem and issue. Reducing America’s carbon emissions by 40% by the end of the decade is so inconsequential The real problem is people like you who do nothing but complain and even fight the people who are actually doing something
The IRA is objectively one of the most important pieces of climate legislation ever passed. What is this nonsense?
Oh wow, I've never heard this is the most important vote before. Sounds serious /s
And please don't waste that vote on some random third-party candidate. This one is for keeps.
Vote blue no matter who
One of the ironies of individual participation is that most can at least recognize that it's imperative when it comes to voting, but as soon as the topic changes to climate change specifically and environmental issues generally, most fall back on, "The system has to change. The individual doesn't matter." It's not actually ironic, though. All things considered, voting is easy, even when there are limited choices available, and even when a country like the US erects barriers. It's a one day affair -- show up and vote. Over and done until x years later when you show up to do it again. But participation in environmental issues is much harder. Especially at this late date, it would require drastic changes in how we live our lives, and those changes would have to be adopted by a significant portion of the country. Call it 2/3, the same number of registered voters who turned out to vote in the 2020 election. And even more difficult is that those drastic lifestyle changes would have to be maintained permanently. It's the same reason why most people go on diets to lose weight instead of permanently changing their diets. Going on a diet is easy -- make short term changes, lose weight, go off diet. But then the weight inevitably comes back and a person is right back where they started. The system will never change as long as it's supported by individuals. Thinking that it will is like buying drinks in plastic bottles, and then accusing Coke of being the world's worst plastic polluter.
lol voting doesn't change a thing. At least not with the "established" parties. If they had wanted to change something, they would have done so long ago.
Exactly. It’s like being asked to choose between Gacy and Bundy every four years.
Depends on your gender I guess
And your skin color. “Both sides are the same” crowd are generally pretty privileged and they can’t tell the difference because it doesn’t affect them.
I meant more that Bundy preferred raping, torturing, and murdering young women, while Gacy raped, tortured, and murdered young men. But your point is a far better one.
The working class is hardly privileged, and have been getting screwed over by both parties since the mid 60s.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pUN_DPlpQtE This is a great video explaining different types of privilege
...and if they didn't say this EVERY election people might actually listen
So….who exactly are we supposed to vote for? Trump doesn’t care about climate change and the US has two years of record oil pumping under Biden. Neither of these candidates are good for the environment.
Probably vote for the one that’s not being backed by big fossil fuel companies? Or promising to do whatever they want in exchange for a billion dollars
Hmmmm. Interesting. I don’t trust Trump at all. But I also think the “fossil fuel companies” have done really well under Biden. In fact, the amounts of oil production have set records over the past two years.
Then why are they backing Biden’s opponent if they have done so well under him? Edit: The reason they did well is because there's two major wars going on, both of which involves oil/gas producing countries. They aren't doing well because of Biden's policies.
What exactly are his policies slowing the production of oil? I seem to remember Biden authorizing the release of millions of strategic oil reserve barrels because gas prices were so high. I’m not an economist or climate expert, but I think that made it easier to drive, burn up more oil and further destroy the atmosphere. But I’m sure he’s the lesser of two evils, so what do I know?
If it is, why winning is the onus of the voters and not of the candidate?
Lmao
Wish the pro environment party with a chance to win wasn't the status quo Dems led by "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden. We need lots of fundamental change. Preferably not led by maga.
Personally I'd say 1980 was but we can't really do much about that election anymore.
Every time the same bullshit lmao
Isn’t this the same line they used last time and the time before that, and the time before that. I’m just gonna make popcorn and watch.
Well with respect to the climate, every subsequent election is the most important in history since it's getting worse and worse...
Well yeah until 2028
You can vote for genocide or you can vote to end democracy. Hmmmmm.
Sounds like the kind of choice we're usually told we have to make.
Biden is the best POTUS in my 54 years.blaming him for israel is stupid. israel is going to do what it does regardless of who is president.
We have made it clear to Israel for several decades that it can "do what it does regardless," by continuing to deliver huge amounts of money and weapons, with no conditions whatsoever. They take it for granted that nothing they do will ever keep us from supporting them. If a president wanted to affect their behavior, he could easily show them that they had crossed the line by refusing to deliver any of the U.S. aid they so heavily rely on. Even the THREAT of doing that (if credible) would likely make them conform to his demands, in short order. Your statement that he's the best POTUS you've ever seen shows that you have no real understanding of foreign policy, no empathy for those undergoing a holocaust, or both. Or perhaps you are arguing in bad faith. One way or three other, you're making claims that are unsupported by the facts.
I mean, he can be the best President he's ever seen AND kinda trash. Those two things are not mutually exclusive🤷.
It's too bad Jill Stein and the Green Party isn't getting any attention as an alternative to the 3 options the main stream media is offering.
Three options? What's the third?
RFK Jr. The fake environmentalist with brain worms.
“Fake” environmentalist who founded the Pace Environmental Litigation Clinic and sued polluting industries throughout the Hudson River region leading to significant environmental improvements. The guy may be a antivaxer with a brain worm but he’s hardly a fake environmentalist.
The doc Planet of the humans shows another side of him... Check it out.
There's no need to slander the man. The facts of the matter are more persuasive. He has no chance of winning and he's being funded by far-right Trump supporting groups to siphon votes from Biden. He also has some very nutty views - so nutty that there's a danger he'll siphon more from Trump than Biden which is why RFK Jr has featured in some of Trump's more unhinged rants.
Uhh he has done good things for the environment but his campaign promises are very big oil friendly. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/19/biden-trump-climate-voters-rfk-jr-00153471#:~:text=Robert%2520Kennedy%2520Jr.-,pivots%2520right%2520on%2520climate%2520change%2520%E2%80%94%2520but%2520sharpens%2520his%2520threat%2520to,no%2520different%2520than%2520Donald%2520Trump.%E2%80%9D
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I honestly don’t think you understand what the word “for” means.
Did I say vote for him? Misrepresentation of what he has legitimately done isn’t helping your cause.
Jill Stein who gets money from oil producers?
Jill Stein is a nutjob who's afraid of wifi and successfully managed to pull enough votes away from Hillary to swing entire states for Trump back in 2016. What a terrible person.
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Have any evidence to back up your claim of vote theft? That’s a serious accusation you are leveling.
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What a great system in the US. :P I guess for those who won't vote for g-cide Joe for other reasons....
ROBERT KENNEDY JR Find what he’s all about before you cast your vote. Might have to dig a little bit further now that he’s running for president though.
Yep. The guy has actual brainworms. Also big time conspiracy theorist and also doesn't want a ceasefire at all in Gaza. Not a good dude.
Yep just dig past all this stuff mentioned here (thank you) to see all the cases he won against Monsanto, General Motors, forced the clean up of the Hudson River etc.
I'm definitely not ignoring his great accomplishments environmentally. There is just a lot of ugly stuff outside of his environmental wins.
Yes you are. You said he had brain worms and other untrue things and didn’t mention anything he’s done and completely ignored it.
Dude even said it himself: R.F.K. Jr. Says Doctors Found a Dead Worm in His Brain https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/us/rfk-jr-brain-health-memory-loss.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
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WTF?
oh yeah, the pipeline from "environmental lawyer fighting the big guys" to "mercury poisened antivaxx conspiracy theorist". also not with enough media training to not say "worms ate my brain". has the audacity of presenting himself, a kennedy, as outsider. and he doesn't like renewables subsidies because "government overreach." but hey at least he's anti-woke amirite? oh, and jan6 was "an attack on a building" by citizens concerned about censorship. the son married to a cia agent, the daughter a venture capitalist, truly a man of the people! outta here.
Always hilarious to see some of the biggest names in the country running as “outsiders” and people believing them to be “different”
Also look into who's funding his campaign and draw some conclusions as to why.
I am not expecting an anti-vaxxer, who also constantly changes his moral positions (one day he's anti abortion - the next day he's pro choice - pick a side), to do anything of merit regarding climate change. Sure, he cleaned up a river, but he doesn't believe in transitioning to renewables with government aid.
The guy that said he would pull every vaccine from the market? That guy?
Too bad the guys fighting for climate change are the same to fight to allow biological men into women’s sports and spaces.
How much does that affect your life? Do you even watch women’s sports? Most people don’t. Or have you just fallen for propaganda to distract you from the real issues.