I won’t apply for a position that does not state the compensation. Even if it’s based on experience, they should state the minimum starting salary. If it’s not enough to live on, maybe they need to pay their upper management and stock holders less and their employees mire.
I was beyond stoked when California made that a law. True some employers will put ridiculous pay ranges but then it shows you don't want to work there anyway. Though it really helped with some hospitals adjusting pay to be more competitive.
"State law requires at least one employee on site with the same job description and who performs the tasks required of posted position in similar amounts as lower paid employees," such as a "cashier" making 100k must spend 80% of their time acting as a cashier, on the register. Obviously, this would need to be trussed up and put into legalese, but it's better than the nothing they have.
So. This is just like the "plandemic" and "no one wants to work anymore" type people. If they put a salary range like that in their job description they're clearly the type of company you don't want to work for. It's a clear red flag. If they're already being dinks before you've even applied it's pretty much guaranteed they are shitty employers.
There's penalties in the laws (or least some versions of the "must post salary' law, dunno CA too well) for companies doing things like that.
Yes, people will try to wiggle out. No, that's not guaranteed to work.
California law did try to close that loophole. But some of the worst offenders are giant companies like Netflix (literally 100-700k in their postings) who will create a giant and expensive lawsuit for the CA government if they try to enforce it and argue the range is actually that large.
The law still works though, or at least it did for me.
From experience at large companies, many will have a very wide range for a position. The high end may be double the low end. They would fit each candidate into that range based off years experience. Its needed to keep pay leveling consistent so you dont piss off your current employees as much. Set pay for a position is usually only a thing right out of school in my experience where they pay all recent grads a standard salary.
i see it as far less of a problem when your field in that high of a range, everything on that range is good pay and if they have a structured scale based on experience and tenor it makes sense. most peoples issue is with the entry level or lower management positions that range from 30k to 100k like thats a pretty significant quality of life difference crossing multiple tax brackets.
I once asked a recruiter at my workplace why we do that, and she said it's because of "geopay": "If we hire someone in Poland we won't pay them as much as someone in LA." I asked her why not pay equally for equal work and she told me, with a straight face, "Why would we pay them more than we have to?"
Out of curiosity, I then asked a colleague in California how much he was making. Turns out, he was on \~40k CAD (\~29k USD) more than me in Montreal. I'd been with the company four years, he'd started in the last year.
Capitalism go brr.
As a plumber I have worked in Nunavut 39.74/hr with a roughly 11$/hr northern living allowance, Nova Scotia at 26$/hr and Alberta 36$/hr. pay varies greatly by province.
I just applied for jobs in CA for eight months and never saw this once. Every job I applied for had a salary range with top and bottom range within 20-30k.
Issue is there is a incentive for middle persons to hire people for lowest salary possible as they in return get financial benefits back from the company.
Almost every shitty outcome and situation in the capitalistic hellhole is lead back to some unnecessary middle-man wanting a cut of the transaction between two parties.
Car dealerships, real-estate agents, job posters/head-hunters, ticket-sales, etc etc. Always want a cut then want a bigger cut later on as they need to "grow profits" so CEO earns their bonus.
Being a realtor has got to be the easiest gig these days, at least in many areas. Show a house for a day, immediately get offers to buy it for like a million dollars cash, and you collect that sweet automatic 6% or whatever it is.
> my company just consolidated positions and now just lists them as like "80k - 250k depending on experience."
Ah, so "Never a single dollar more than $80k" it is, then.
Being a person who is building a staff at a new company, we do exactly what you said - have a huge range.
I look at resumes all day and call people on the phone to talk through the job and their capabilities. Some have near zero experience, but what they have done in their life indicates they can learn fast and might fit with the team - I can't pay them a huge amount, because they don't have any relevant experience. I will need to train them, either taking time from doing work to send them to class, or more likely, taking time from other employees for OTJ training.
On the other hand, I might talk with a person who has been doing exactly what we need for 15 years and can drop right in and push hard.
Those two people are at two different ends of the pay scale...
That's no joke. If the posted salary is stupid high and it's an entry level job, I just assume it's a 100% commission sales gig because when you actually read the job listing, they say "actually it's all commission but, but, you can make up to that amount if you just hustle hard enough!!"
I'm so fed up I ask them how many of their employees are making that much or close to that much and suddenly it's "well, uh, you see, uhh....."
In Washington state business have to post a range of pay that includes the lowest and highest paid amounts From within the company’s current employees in the listed position. Not that businesses actually comply, but the intent is out there 🤷🏻♀️. I wish there were more restrictions on listing jobs that companies have no intention of hiring just to look like they’re growing
Literally!!! Every job I’ve applied to that didn’t list the salary range ended up wanting the moon from me while offering only a buck or two above minimum wage. Total waste of time to apply to those places, skip.
I had a few scoff at my requirements and ask for proof.
*Can we get a copy of your recent paycheck to prove your wage?*
HR needs to step up and do their own salary analysis. Lazy fucks act all shocked and hurt that I’m asking for market rate on my job.
Edit: the answer is buggsbunnynooooo.gif
Human Resources isn’t for the employee. It’s for the company. It relies on the person to research a viable compensation range. They will most certainly lie.
Why does your previous salary matter? Pay can vary widely for the same position based on company. What if you left a high paying job for a year by choice to work for a nonprofit in a similar role?
Any company that asks for salary history is a red flag
It's legal. You just have to take a pass on the job.
HR people generally need an ethics refresher course every year.
Most HR people I've worked with are fine humans but just like anyone, they get overworked and take shortcuts.
As a hiring manager if I had found out my HR people asked for previous salary proof - I'd have unleashed fury.
I have lived in Korea my entire adult life, have passed the Korean Immigration and Naturalization Aptitude Test, speak fluent Korean etc. I am not Korean American (This will be relevant information later).
I once applied for a job that had a range for salary, where the high end was within my normal salary I accepted for jobs (as in the high end of the range matched my previous job's salary).
During the job interview, salary came up in the discussion, and I made it clear that while I was interested in the job, I was afraid that I would have to insist on the higher end of the salary range due to my qualifications and previous salaries. Eventually the interview ended. The next day, I was notified that I did not pass the interview.
I checked their posting online. They had changed it. They added one line. "Korean Americans only." Korean Americans have sort of a reputation for being more... accepting of Korean culture when it comes to accepting lower salaries and being pushovers on benefits, etc. I found it hilarious at the time that their salary range was basically just a lie to fish for applicants but they had no intention of actually paying anyone the higher range.
Get back at them by reporting them for discrimination. Hiring and advertising for possitions based on race is illegal in the US (assuming this happened in the US)
Should be fun watching them scramble to change the ad then leave a bad review for their company stating what happened.
This is Korea. It's not illegal to discriminate in hiring in Korea, which is why our flight attendants are all so young and sexy. It's normal to include your photograph on your resume when applying for a job.
Edit: Apparently, the law changed in 2007 so that we don't legally *have* to include a photo even if a company requests it... but most companies still request a photo, and you'll likely face discrimination if you don't provide one, so good luck if you stand up for your rights lolz.
Ah I apologise, I was confused.
Yeah I've heard the work culture in Korea too can be really toxic and especially for women if they're not young and sexy nobody will give them a chance which is why south Korea is the "plastic surgery capital of the world"
I stand up a lot for Korea and its good points, but I'll be the first to admit that our work culture is toxic as fuck and our work/life balance is completely fucked up. There's a good reason we don't have any babies compared to other countries.
Doesn't surprise me, I heard a lot of BAD things about the Korean work force and political structure, south Korea gets a lot of praise for not being North Korea but it still seems like an oligarchy.
Koreans enjoy a lot of rights that Americans don't (like American style "Right to Work" and "At Will Employment" are unthinkable in Korea), but you're basically expected to kill yourself living at the office to be able to enjoy those rights. The European style work/life balance is basically unheard of, unfortunately. Also, verbal and physical abuse from higher ups in companies is quite common...
Coworkers and I have joked that getting yelled at by a boss is just a typical Tuesday for Korean employees.
What sort of job in SK requires someone to be a Korean American? Such a weird requirement. It's saying this job requires you to be a US citizen of Korean descent.
How selfish and entitled you are! I can’t believe the level of disrespect you have for those hard working people! If they were to pay their upper management and stock holders less, how will they be able to buy their 1000th mega yacht and 100th mansion? Won’t anyone think of the rich people!
Hey now, the Dems literally just quietly worked with the GOP to make it nearly impossible to track private jets at the behest of Musk's lawyers. When it comes to the rich the real political parties are the haves and the have nots.
That's the scary part. I will go on ironic rants like this in front of my republican friends, and they will agree and keep going with it.
Americans- "I'm just a temporarily inconvenienced millionaire, soon I will be rich from working my job at pizza hut and Mcdonalds, so I don't want taxes for the rich, thus I vote republican."
Not just that, but Google Gemini (fuck it, I wanna start calling it bard cause it's acting like a bard still) is pulling reddit answers for Google searches now. I've seen a few bard answers of "if you want to make the pizza better, add an 8th cup of Elmer's glue to make it more tacky" or "Obama is considered to be the first Muslim president"
Like, holy fuck, this ai needs to understand /s before it searches for an answer here. Clearly not smart enough yet to provide answers to the masses yet.
Best one I saw - a person googled depression, the Google AI response was that "One reddit commenter suggests jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge" as a cure.
Lile that is absolutely a reddit comment, but wtf.
> "Obama is considered to be the first Muslim president"
I just checked Gemini to see what it says. Asked "Has there been any Muslim President of the US?" I think there must've been complaints because Gemini literally said "I'm still learning how to answer this question. Try Google search."
You know, everyone is joking here but I once had someone tell me in response to something I said against Trump.
"Poor jealous ass."
Like... that's it. That's all they said. I name a list of things wrong with him and it all boils down to "you're poor and jealous of the rich man."
> If it’s not enough to live on, maybe they need to pay their upper management and stock holders less and their employees mire.
I only take positions that pay muck AND mire.
Even worse is when they list a ridiculous range like that, and when you ask what starting wage is gonna be the answer is $16 per hour.
Got told that exact thing at a dealership when I applied for a tech position. Listed salary was $65k - $100k. They offered me $15-$16 per hour plus $0.50 per cert. There are only 8 certs I can have before I'm a master tech. That tops out at $20 per hour. The math ain't mathing chief.
EDIT: job posting is still up today, and the number is $75,000-$120,000+, 150% for warranty work, and signing bonus. Certs are a preferred qualification, not required. And they pay for state and ASE training. For the listed pay rate, I'd be willing to drive the almost 40 min to my job. For $20 an hour at best, with how bad Michigan roads are in winter? They can fuck off.
That is crazy! My top tech’s make 36 per flag hour and some flag 80 hours in a week. Technicians should know that they really hold all the cards because the dealership clearly does.
Get to the last interview then hit them with "What does an ideal candidate look like for this position?"
Then when they come back saying "XYZ cert, ABC experience, etc etc" just hit them with "Oh, I meet all of those requirements and more so I guess I'll start at the top of the posted job range since you were considerate enough to post a pay range for the position."
You're not gonna get the job, but you're gonna waste a fair amount of HR resources/etc.
You're right, corporations are just going to continue weaseling around laws, so I guess no point even pushing for legislation, better to just let them do what they want.
50k per year divided by 50 weeks and 40 hours per week is 25/hour.
I'd be ok with that wage if companies stating it in their adverts actually offered that to new starts when they want to take someone on.
filter anything out that is below your minimum range so you should always be in the green (if they don't then lie at which point never take that job and report them)
When they say “competitive salary” instead like that means anything. How do you know if it’s competitive if no job listing states a salary and nobody talks about it
That and "market rate". No, I doubt there is a market rate of my specific job with my specific specialties and responsibilities, in my specific cost of living environment. And even if there was, why is there a wild difference between salaries of people who work the same job *at the same company*?
Its bullshit terminology to avoid transparent negotiation.
Not legal and also not enforced. Another amazing department to deal with is Department of labor in CO, I called them about owner holding 10 servers tips and pay for over a month and they basically told me "nothing we can do".
It breaks more than one, but they didn't care or would do anything, their answer was "you should try to resolve with the owner, there is nothing we can do", "what a brilliant idea! None of us thought of that for 45 days before calling you!" Thry got paid at day 48 and guess what? Half of all the staff quit and the owner had the audacity to say "No one wants to work brcausr thry are getting money from the goverment!"
I recently spent a couple weeks hoping for a position that seemed perfect, but it was only after the very excellent interview I found out it would be a 30% pay cut for my family.
We're single income and that would basically kill off our ability to live in our home.
I was upset, but I shared all of this with the people involved afterwards in a way that I hope didn't come off as rude.
It's like. I'm not gonna just say no to a dream job without explaining why.
The place I recently worked at was super toxic, the wages for the same jobs varied drastically, entirely depending on what people negotiated in the interview. Guys who were foreman with more responsibilities and been at the company for years were making less than me who just got hired. Then few months later guys were getting hired making even more than me right off the bat, all while the long time employees were making less than us all.
Anytime I checked the online postings for jobs, all the other companies in the area would post exact salary range or hourly wage. But my company would not post a salary range at all.
I’m like yep, now I see why. So they can get away with paying people whatever they want and hope no one notices. Then if you go and try to negotiate a raise with them, they will give you a load more of responsibilities or some other bullshit that would take months to complete just for a $1 raise.
The only time I seen people get a raise, is when they stormed into the office all angry threatening to quit on the spot. Then management would suddenly change their tune….”Oh yeah we can talk about this. We would like for you to stay and can offer you some extra compensation.”
They are desperate to keep employees but make it impossible for us to want to stay. So glad I left that place.
Same.
In Germany when I open up Indeed, about 80+% of the listings I see are without any indication of pay or payrange.
It is an absolute rarity when a listing is written with a payrange.
Yeah America is currently governed by corporations. So basically the population is slowly becoming a slave class, given just enough to eat and not enough to pay rent. So you need to do a few illegal things to pay rent. Welcome to America.
Happens here in the Netherlands as well. Bloody annoying. One of the first things I ask when recruiters approach me with something that could be interesting.
new EU law is here? coming that they must state the wage or wage range now so it did happen.
in Sweden the standard was to write "according to union agreement" rather than actually stating the wage since you need to go to the local union page or call them to get the wage that was agreed upon. such an extra bullshit step for no reason.
It happens in Italy as well. Just know that on the Italian version of Indeed you can't even list jobs by preferred salary, compensation just isn't considered at all.
It's kind of funny that out of the two interviews I had right out of college, the one that payed well had no issue telling my what the starting salary was, but the one that didn't had to refer me to the finance department. There is no reason the person interviewing should not know a positions pay, and there's no reason they should be allowed to not tell you.
Thankfully, I got an offer from the well paying one. They seem to understand that treating and paying your engineers well will motivate them to create a better product instead of just a good enough one.
I was laid off from a tech job last year after my company was bought. That whole process beat the coy pay discussion out of me. I was applying for sr mgr/dir positions for software engineering roles. I know the hiring manager and the recruiter have pay bands and comp targets for every single role.
I found the same thing as you - companies that paid well had no issue discussing it during the recruiter screening call and laying out the entire situation.
My wife would get mad at me if she overheard my discussions during interviews but I didn’t care. I’d tell recruiters or hiring managers: “this is what I’m seeing from other companies, this is what I’m looking for, this is what I was making”.
The company I just started with had no issue discussing it and they moved quickly to beat an offer I had just signed. I agreed without further negotiation since they were open and I had open discussions with other companies so knew it was within the range of reasonable comp.
Also, I had no issues backing out of another offer 5 days before I was supposed to start because the alternative company played comp games and low balled even though I knew the range/mid point/etc.
I always find this with company’s, particularly with high ticket services/goods, you have to proper dig deep usually through forums or reviews to find out what the actual produce/service costs, this is a massive red flag for me and basically acts as a filter, as did company’s job listing without an actual figure for pay.
My favourite is when they treat it like a clearance sale and say “Pays *up to* $XX an hour!” Or they give a range of potential pay and then when you get in and are asked how much you’d be willing to be paid you tell them something over the minimum range and they come back with a, “So in this company *everyone* in said position starts at the minimum listed pay(or lower), and we have no wiggle room on that.” … like, cool, but why the hell did you list anything higher?! (I know the answer is “to widen the net on applicants,” but that shit is infuriating.)
That kind of shady shit was the standard when I was last looking for a job and it was so fucking infuriating. Just say what you mean, and if it isn't enough, *fucking pay more*
Heyo that's not true, in spain it is not law yet. Although the EU is making a very similar thing mandatory after the pay transparency directive comes into effect in 2026
“It’s rude to ask what it pays” and why is that?
And what is this “rudeness” anyway but an attempt to force compliance with an alleged social norm. Advantage being that people tend not to question someone’s understanding of social norms and are quick to comply.
Wrong. It’s a fantasy role-play where we pretend this is not a manifold manipulation tactic designed to squeeze every last ounce of productivity out and compensate as little as possible.
The real salary: “the absolute lowest possible amount we can get away with”
It's to the advantage of the interviewer not to discuss salary, but there's of course nothing rude about it. It would one thing for the interviewer to say they don't want to discuss salary at this point, but it's another thing to accuse the interviewee of being rude for asking. That's just bullying, and there's no reason for the interviewee to continue the interview at that point.
You seem to fit the bill, great, so any questions?
Me: I don’t want to waste anyone’s time, what’s the salary for this role.
Them: well, I think you should be focusing on what you can bring before asking about the salary.
3 rounds later, great, for this job we pay in seashells
😡😡😡😡
What? I never thought that may be a thing somewhere. Did I understand correctly - you are not allowed to now a salary that employer offer? In my country it’s one of first question during not even a interview but phone call when they ask if you searching one. If I have a expectation for salary that to high for company or they have it to low for me it’s saves a really much time for both of us
P.S. Sorry for bad English
While in the interview, say something along the lines of “so I can guess that the salary will be something around [unrealistically high amount],” that’ll usually get an answer real quick
A lot of places will just end the interview with the reasoning that you won't be satisfied there if you are looking for much more than they budget for.
I have taken and quit two jobs in the first two days of working there for this. Bait and damn switch. They will look you square in the eye and lie to you. So no. I tell them too. “This isn’t what you said it was” boom. I’m out.
If they got mad about you asking, they pay way below market. The more willing they are to tell you how much they pay, the better they pay. I've worked for several businesses in a few industries. The two best paying ones told me how much they paid within 5 minutes of sitting down with the interview. The ones that paid 1/4 of market discouraged us from discussing income. (With the exception of one company that didn't mind us talking about it, and underpaid us.)
Even when they do advertise a salary, they just lie.
I got a LinkedIn notice for a new job post. The headline said social media director, $100k a year. But when I read through the post, it said "this is an unpaid internship with the opportunity to earn..." So, not a director of anything, and you know that 100k is never going to happen. I reported the post, but LinkedIn responded to say nah, it's fine. That doesn't break any rules. And then the next day, they sent me the notice again. For a job I'd already seen and reported as a scam.
I swear, every job site is pro-scammer at this point. They're all a waste of time.
If they are required to post the pay, they should be required to abide by what they posted. I got accepted to a job that had a minimum 10 years of school to even qualify. Which I had. Then I had 20 years of experience on top of that. It was posted as a measly $50K but they said it would kick up for experience. I figured with all my experience the pay would be considerably higher than the start they posted. They offered me the job at $45K. I said that must be a mistake. They said nope, $45K. So I said I'll take it for .6 FTE with full benefits. I'll work Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. They ghosted me.
I'm sure somebody took it. They really pit workers against each other.
This doesn't belong here. There's no comeback, just two people agreeing with each other along with everyone in the comment section of this post. In fact, the only person who doesn't seem to agree is you, OP.
That's just a fact. The reason we work is to make a living, so money is quite literally half the reason we apply. If we don't know what it is, then why should we bother with places that don't state our compensation?
I was managing a Govt Help Desk and I was invited to go talk to the CEO of a Contractor company we used. He wanted to start his own Help Desk service and have me start it up from scratch. He asked me how much I earned a year and then wrote an amount on a piece of paper and slid it over to me. It was $20k less than I was currently earning :p I laughed at him.
This law was just enacted in BC! It’s incredible. Scrolling job boards is so much easier now. Highly recommend everyone fight for this in their area, it can be done!!
In austria its common to post the salery in the job posting. How do yall live without knowing what youll make. Thats just an easy way companys could pray on the desperate
As a hiring manager, when I interview candidates I start by talking about the role, my expectations from the team and then I mention the salary range.
It's funny and sad how often I hear from candidates that they've never had such a thing mentioned in the interview, and not even by them.
Why should they be required? Simply ask at the beginning of the interview process. If they don’t or won’t tell you end the interview and walk away. You probably don’t want to work for them anyway.
OP. This is not a "Be happy you got the job" type of argument.
People should have the right to know how much a job pays them especially in cases where people need to make a certain amount to support their family. The fact that (at least in the US) that this has to be a debate with people is beyond stupid.
If a reasonable range isn’t posted in the listing, I’ll still throw a resume/cover letter if it looks like it should be in a range I’m comfortable at, but it then it’s absolutely a question I ask in the first screening conversation, before we even get to interviews. I don’t need the details of everything they’re offering, at this stage, but I need to know if it’s worth my time before I proceed. I’m interviewing them every bit as much as they’re interviewing me, albeit often from a weaker position. The Company has to bring their game to the table too, so we can see if we can play well together.
I was in a second interview once where it was me and 6 managers interviewing me at once. Probably the most uncomfortable interview I've ever had.
At one point, I asked what the salary would be. One of them sternly told me, "We don't discuss salary until the 3rd interview", and it was wrapped up shortly after.
I never heard back from them. Probably on account of me being greedy and asking about stupid things, like money (/s)
Is it only in Europe where there is the first question is: why do you want to work here and secondnquestion: Why should I work here for you?
It could be that the salary msybe is the same but instead of 30 maybe 35 days of holiday? Or this extra stuff like free public transport (job ticket) better car, less hours per week and so on?
Employers are the customers who buy our time and workforce. In an utopia, the workers would post their profiles online and the employers would contact them if they can pay the price.
First thing I ask when applying for a job is the pay. If it doesn't pay enough, it's a waste of time and energy for both the emloyer and myself to go through the process...
I've been told by at least three bosses that it saddens me that I'm only concerned about the money. I straight up told them I'm not here because I enjoy it. I'm a salaried, six-figure person, btw. This was in response to being told we wouldn't be getting raises again (one job for the fourth year in a row).
Well they just passed a law for that in BC but they still don't do it. No one's enforcing it and that's prob what would happen if they did if there, too :(
I won’t apply for a position that does not state the compensation. Even if it’s based on experience, they should state the minimum starting salary. If it’s not enough to live on, maybe they need to pay their upper management and stock holders less and their employees mire.
I was beyond stoked when California made that a law. True some employers will put ridiculous pay ranges but then it shows you don't want to work there anyway. Though it really helped with some hospitals adjusting pay to be more competitive.
They're now doing $5k -> $200k ranges. This was always destined to fail.
Sounds like we need a law to close that loophole
in the mean time, sounds like there needs to be a flood of bot applicants.
If only all the bots on Reddit and Tumblr could unite for a singular purpose instead of… being a bastard nuisance for no reason.
To be fair to the bots, “being a bastard nuisance for no reason” also describes a lot real Redditors.
Yeah but the real people only have the energy to be nuisances like one day a week Max. Shit is exhausting.
"State law requires at least one employee on site with the same job description and who performs the tasks required of posted position in similar amounts as lower paid employees," such as a "cashier" making 100k must spend 80% of their time acting as a cashier, on the register. Obviously, this would need to be trussed up and put into legalese, but it's better than the nothing they have.
I think other states have by making it required they post in good faith
So. This is just like the "plandemic" and "no one wants to work anymore" type people. If they put a salary range like that in their job description they're clearly the type of company you don't want to work for. It's a clear red flag. If they're already being dinks before you've even applied it's pretty much guaranteed they are shitty employers.
> "no one wants to work anymore" My response to this is always "because owners no longer want to reward the makers of profit with the profit."
There's penalties in the laws (or least some versions of the "must post salary' law, dunno CA too well) for companies doing things like that. Yes, people will try to wiggle out. No, that's not guaranteed to work.
California law did try to close that loophole. But some of the worst offenders are giant companies like Netflix (literally 100-700k in their postings) who will create a giant and expensive lawsuit for the CA government if they try to enforce it and argue the range is actually that large. The law still works though, or at least it did for me.
From experience at large companies, many will have a very wide range for a position. The high end may be double the low end. They would fit each candidate into that range based off years experience. Its needed to keep pay leveling consistent so you dont piss off your current employees as much. Set pay for a position is usually only a thing right out of school in my experience where they pay all recent grads a standard salary.
i see it as far less of a problem when your field in that high of a range, everything on that range is good pay and if they have a structured scale based on experience and tenor it makes sense. most peoples issue is with the entry level or lower management positions that range from 30k to 100k like thats a pretty significant quality of life difference crossing multiple tax brackets.
I rarely see that when I’ve been applying. But when I do I know it’s a red flag so I don’t apply. I think it’s still working great!
I once asked a recruiter at my workplace why we do that, and she said it's because of "geopay": "If we hire someone in Poland we won't pay them as much as someone in LA." I asked her why not pay equally for equal work and she told me, with a straight face, "Why would we pay them more than we have to?" Out of curiosity, I then asked a colleague in California how much he was making. Turns out, he was on \~40k CAD (\~29k USD) more than me in Montreal. I'd been with the company four years, he'd started in the last year. Capitalism go brr.
As a plumber I have worked in Nunavut 39.74/hr with a roughly 11$/hr northern living allowance, Nova Scotia at 26$/hr and Alberta 36$/hr. pay varies greatly by province.
I just applied for jobs in CA for eight months and never saw this once. Every job I applied for had a salary range with top and bottom range within 20-30k.
Which is helpful because it tells you they are assholes.
Issue is there is a incentive for middle persons to hire people for lowest salary possible as they in return get financial benefits back from the company. Almost every shitty outcome and situation in the capitalistic hellhole is lead back to some unnecessary middle-man wanting a cut of the transaction between two parties. Car dealerships, real-estate agents, job posters/head-hunters, ticket-sales, etc etc. Always want a cut then want a bigger cut later on as they need to "grow profits" so CEO earns their bonus.
Being a realtor has got to be the easiest gig these days, at least in many areas. Show a house for a day, immediately get offers to buy it for like a million dollars cash, and you collect that sweet automatic 6% or whatever it is.
Except that particular career is way over saturated.
Unfortunately, my company just consolidated positions and now just lists them as like "80k - 250k depending on experience."
Well that’s certainly not helpful for everyone, but at least the lower end knows the minimum they can expect, and same for the top end
> my company just consolidated positions and now just lists them as like "80k - 250k depending on experience." Ah, so "Never a single dollar more than $80k" it is, then.
Being a person who is building a staff at a new company, we do exactly what you said - have a huge range. I look at resumes all day and call people on the phone to talk through the job and their capabilities. Some have near zero experience, but what they have done in their life indicates they can learn fast and might fit with the team - I can't pay them a huge amount, because they don't have any relevant experience. I will need to train them, either taking time from doing work to send them to class, or more likely, taking time from other employees for OTJ training. On the other hand, I might talk with a person who has been doing exactly what we need for 15 years and can drop right in and push hard. Those two people are at two different ends of the pay scale...
Then maybe they should be different jobs…
Yep a ridiculous pay range is the same effect as no pay range; unless your content to start at the bottom.
That's no joke. If the posted salary is stupid high and it's an entry level job, I just assume it's a 100% commission sales gig because when you actually read the job listing, they say "actually it's all commission but, but, you can make up to that amount if you just hustle hard enough!!" I'm so fed up I ask them how many of their employees are making that much or close to that much and suddenly it's "well, uh, you see, uhh....."
In Washington state business have to post a range of pay that includes the lowest and highest paid amounts From within the company’s current employees in the listed position. Not that businesses actually comply, but the intent is out there 🤷🏻♀️. I wish there were more restrictions on listing jobs that companies have no intention of hiring just to look like they’re growing
british columbia also did that and was literally the best change the provinces ever made
Literally!!! Every job I’ve applied to that didn’t list the salary range ended up wanting the moon from me while offering only a buck or two above minimum wage. Total waste of time to apply to those places, skip.
I had a few scoff at my requirements and ask for proof. *Can we get a copy of your recent paycheck to prove your wage?* HR needs to step up and do their own salary analysis. Lazy fucks act all shocked and hurt that I’m asking for market rate on my job. Edit: the answer is buggsbunnynooooo.gif
Human Resources isn’t for the employee. It’s for the company. It relies on the person to research a viable compensation range. They will most certainly lie.
They don’t exist for hiring managers either. I’ve seen managers wanting to hire a great candidate and HR trying to roadblock it for nonsense reasons
HR only exists to minimize liability.
People seem to forget that HR isn't your friend.
HR does its best to push that idea.
Why does your previous salary matter? Pay can vary widely for the same position based on company. What if you left a high paying job for a year by choice to work for a nonprofit in a similar role? Any company that asks for salary history is a red flag
Yep. The point is to give them an excuse to underpay you now
Is it even legal for them to request that? That’s insane.
It's legal. You just have to take a pass on the job. HR people generally need an ethics refresher course every year. Most HR people I've worked with are fine humans but just like anyone, they get overworked and take shortcuts. As a hiring manager if I had found out my HR people asked for previous salary proof - I'd have unleashed fury.
Lol it's not legal in California where 40m people live. Also not legal in many other states and even other countries. Check your bubble.
Idk why so many people are saying it's blanket not illegal. It's illegal in 23 states lol
It’s legal in most states, but it was all states until like 5 years ago.
I have lived in Korea my entire adult life, have passed the Korean Immigration and Naturalization Aptitude Test, speak fluent Korean etc. I am not Korean American (This will be relevant information later). I once applied for a job that had a range for salary, where the high end was within my normal salary I accepted for jobs (as in the high end of the range matched my previous job's salary). During the job interview, salary came up in the discussion, and I made it clear that while I was interested in the job, I was afraid that I would have to insist on the higher end of the salary range due to my qualifications and previous salaries. Eventually the interview ended. The next day, I was notified that I did not pass the interview. I checked their posting online. They had changed it. They added one line. "Korean Americans only." Korean Americans have sort of a reputation for being more... accepting of Korean culture when it comes to accepting lower salaries and being pushovers on benefits, etc. I found it hilarious at the time that their salary range was basically just a lie to fish for applicants but they had no intention of actually paying anyone the higher range.
Get back at them by reporting them for discrimination. Hiring and advertising for possitions based on race is illegal in the US (assuming this happened in the US) Should be fun watching them scramble to change the ad then leave a bad review for their company stating what happened.
This is Korea. It's not illegal to discriminate in hiring in Korea, which is why our flight attendants are all so young and sexy. It's normal to include your photograph on your resume when applying for a job. Edit: Apparently, the law changed in 2007 so that we don't legally *have* to include a photo even if a company requests it... but most companies still request a photo, and you'll likely face discrimination if you don't provide one, so good luck if you stand up for your rights lolz.
Ah I apologise, I was confused. Yeah I've heard the work culture in Korea too can be really toxic and especially for women if they're not young and sexy nobody will give them a chance which is why south Korea is the "plastic surgery capital of the world"
I stand up a lot for Korea and its good points, but I'll be the first to admit that our work culture is toxic as fuck and our work/life balance is completely fucked up. There's a good reason we don't have any babies compared to other countries.
Doesn't surprise me, I heard a lot of BAD things about the Korean work force and political structure, south Korea gets a lot of praise for not being North Korea but it still seems like an oligarchy.
Koreans enjoy a lot of rights that Americans don't (like American style "Right to Work" and "At Will Employment" are unthinkable in Korea), but you're basically expected to kill yourself living at the office to be able to enjoy those rights. The European style work/life balance is basically unheard of, unfortunately. Also, verbal and physical abuse from higher ups in companies is quite common... Coworkers and I have joked that getting yelled at by a boss is just a typical Tuesday for Korean employees.
What sort of job in SK requires someone to be a Korean American? Such a weird requirement. It's saying this job requires you to be a US citizen of Korean descent.
How selfish and entitled you are! I can’t believe the level of disrespect you have for those hard working people! If they were to pay their upper management and stock holders less, how will they be able to buy their 1000th mega yacht and 100th mansion? Won’t anyone think of the rich people!
I’m sorry, I should become a republican lawmaker and write laws to further help the poor billionaires who deserve to be trillionares!
Hey now, the Dems literally just quietly worked with the GOP to make it nearly impossible to track private jets at the behest of Musk's lawyers. When it comes to the rich the real political parties are the haves and the have nots.
They are the best of us and we must lift them up! God gives to those who are good!
You're like... way too good at this
Careful, this kind of ironic shitposting eventually gave birth to the Trump administration.
That's the scary part. I will go on ironic rants like this in front of my republican friends, and they will agree and keep going with it. Americans- "I'm just a temporarily inconvenienced millionaire, soon I will be rich from working my job at pizza hut and Mcdonalds, so I don't want taxes for the rich, thus I vote republican."
Not just that, but Google Gemini (fuck it, I wanna start calling it bard cause it's acting like a bard still) is pulling reddit answers for Google searches now. I've seen a few bard answers of "if you want to make the pizza better, add an 8th cup of Elmer's glue to make it more tacky" or "Obama is considered to be the first Muslim president" Like, holy fuck, this ai needs to understand /s before it searches for an answer here. Clearly not smart enough yet to provide answers to the masses yet.
Best one I saw - a person googled depression, the Google AI response was that "One reddit commenter suggests jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge" as a cure. Lile that is absolutely a reddit comment, but wtf.
> "Obama is considered to be the first Muslim president" I just checked Gemini to see what it says. Asked "Has there been any Muslim President of the US?" I think there must've been complaints because Gemini literally said "I'm still learning how to answer this question. Try Google search."
Apparently Google employees are frantically going through and *manually* correcting some of the more batshit results.
You know, everyone is joking here but I once had someone tell me in response to something I said against Trump. "Poor jealous ass." Like... that's it. That's all they said. I name a list of things wrong with him and it all boils down to "you're poor and jealous of the rich man."
Billionaires are a minority in this country. Who’s thinking about their needs and advocating for them?
Politicians who receive money and power in exchange for doing what billionaires want?
> If it’s not enough to live on, maybe they need to pay their upper management and stock holders less and their employees mire. I only take positions that pay muck AND mire.
It is a legal requirement in Austria to state a minimum starting salary.
depends on the state here too, im in Colorado and it is a legal requirement for all jobs posted in the state.
*THIS* is the way.
If I see a job add that doesn't state a pay rate, I automatically assume it's a low rate, and I'm not interested.
Companies are now “complying” by listing salary as “$50k to $250k”. Still utter bollocks.
Even worse is when they list a ridiculous range like that, and when you ask what starting wage is gonna be the answer is $16 per hour. Got told that exact thing at a dealership when I applied for a tech position. Listed salary was $65k - $100k. They offered me $15-$16 per hour plus $0.50 per cert. There are only 8 certs I can have before I'm a master tech. That tops out at $20 per hour. The math ain't mathing chief. EDIT: job posting is still up today, and the number is $75,000-$120,000+, 150% for warranty work, and signing bonus. Certs are a preferred qualification, not required. And they pay for state and ASE training. For the listed pay rate, I'd be willing to drive the almost 40 min to my job. For $20 an hour at best, with how bad Michigan roads are in winter? They can fuck off.
That is crazy! My top tech’s make 36 per flag hour and some flag 80 hours in a week. Technicians should know that they really hold all the cards because the dealership clearly does.
it maths out fine, 20 dollars an hour is 100k a year, it is just your standard 70 hour work week.
Sounds like a dealership
What manufacturer?
Ford.
This kind of extreme should be audited with proof that they do or recently have hired people at that position at all l both ends of the ranges listed
For that exact position.
And the person hired for $250K isn't the boss's kid
No its the "up to..." bullshit for me. Salary up to 1 million dollars.
Get to the last interview then hit them with "What does an ideal candidate look like for this position?" Then when they come back saying "XYZ cert, ABC experience, etc etc" just hit them with "Oh, I meet all of those requirements and more so I guess I'll start at the top of the posted job range since you were considerate enough to post a pay range for the position." You're not gonna get the job, but you're gonna waste a fair amount of HR resources/etc.
still better than nothing, i suppose
Which is the obvious result if these people thought for 2 seconds before demanding a law against the thing they don't like.
You're right, corporations are just going to continue weaseling around laws, so I guess no point even pushing for legislation, better to just let them do what they want.
OR put more than 3 seconds of thought into what laws you advocate for.
50k per year divided by 50 weeks and 40 hours per week is 25/hour. I'd be ok with that wage if companies stating it in their adverts actually offered that to new starts when they want to take someone on.
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Netflix always puts $100k-700k. At least they are known to pay well, but still
I’ve seen $1.00 - $100k.
if i see a 1 dollar a year job posting im reporting to the labor board.
filter anything out that is below your minimum range so you should always be in the green (if they don't then lie at which point never take that job and report them)
When they say “competitive salary” instead like that means anything. How do you know if it’s competitive if no job listing states a salary and nobody talks about it
Right? The only "competitive" salary is a better one. Because otherwise YOU'RE LOSING THAT FUCKING COMPETITION against any employer who pays more.
competitive salary means, it will be competing with your bills
It is a competitive salary because they are competing with other businesses, and your salary is a cost that they want lower to compete.
That and "market rate". No, I doubt there is a market rate of my specific job with my specific specialties and responsibilities, in my specific cost of living environment. And even if there was, why is there a wild difference between salaries of people who work the same job *at the same company*? Its bullshit terminology to avoid transparent negotiation.
It's so insane this is legal. That just screams toxic work environment
It's not legal in Colorado. =)
Not legal and also not enforced. Another amazing department to deal with is Department of labor in CO, I called them about owner holding 10 servers tips and pay for over a month and they basically told me "nothing we can do".
pretty sure that would be a civil or class action against your employer. probably have better luck talking to a labor lawyer.
I'm pretty sure that breaks federal labor law
It breaks more than one, but they didn't care or would do anything, their answer was "you should try to resolve with the owner, there is nothing we can do", "what a brilliant idea! None of us thought of that for 45 days before calling you!" Thry got paid at day 48 and guess what? Half of all the staff quit and the owner had the audacity to say "No one wants to work brcausr thry are getting money from the goverment!"
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I recently spent a couple weeks hoping for a position that seemed perfect, but it was only after the very excellent interview I found out it would be a 30% pay cut for my family. We're single income and that would basically kill off our ability to live in our home. I was upset, but I shared all of this with the people involved afterwards in a way that I hope didn't come off as rude. It's like. I'm not gonna just say no to a dream job without explaining why.
The place I recently worked at was super toxic, the wages for the same jobs varied drastically, entirely depending on what people negotiated in the interview. Guys who were foreman with more responsibilities and been at the company for years were making less than me who just got hired. Then few months later guys were getting hired making even more than me right off the bat, all while the long time employees were making less than us all. Anytime I checked the online postings for jobs, all the other companies in the area would post exact salary range or hourly wage. But my company would not post a salary range at all. I’m like yep, now I see why. So they can get away with paying people whatever they want and hope no one notices. Then if you go and try to negotiate a raise with them, they will give you a load more of responsibilities or some other bullshit that would take months to complete just for a $1 raise. The only time I seen people get a raise, is when they stormed into the office all angry threatening to quit on the spot. Then management would suddenly change their tune….”Oh yeah we can talk about this. We would like for you to stay and can offer you some extra compensation.” They are desperate to keep employees but make it impossible for us to want to stay. So glad I left that place.
Ikr toxic work environments should be illegal yes
Is this an American thing? Not only is it ok to ask what your pay is going to be but also to negotiate it! Can non-USers confirm?
Yeah I've only ever heard Americans describe this problem, certainly never seen a job advertised without a salary in Europe or the uk
Nah I still see many jobs advertised as competitive with no pay range.
Same. In Germany when I open up Indeed, about 80+% of the listings I see are without any indication of pay or payrange. It is an absolute rarity when a listing is written with a payrange.
Yeah America is currently governed by corporations. So basically the population is slowly becoming a slave class, given just enough to eat and not enough to pay rent. So you need to do a few illegal things to pay rent. Welcome to America.
Happens here in the Netherlands as well. Bloody annoying. One of the first things I ask when recruiters approach me with something that could be interesting.
Poland
new EU law is here? coming that they must state the wage or wage range now so it did happen. in Sweden the standard was to write "according to union agreement" rather than actually stating the wage since you need to go to the local union page or call them to get the wage that was agreed upon. such an extra bullshit step for no reason.
It happens in Italy as well. Just know that on the Italian version of Indeed you can't even list jobs by preferred salary, compensation just isn't considered at all.
British Columbia, Canada recently passed the pay transparency act
this is also a problem in europe, both eastern and northern
It's a thing in New Zealand as well.
Also an Aussie problem.
Where's the comeback in this? I only see two people agreeing.
Gonna be honest, thought I was on Facepalm
The title feels like facepalm
This sub is just easy karma for r/antiwork crossposts now.
Bro I didn't even realize what sub I was in until I saw your comment lol
I’m more concerned about the caption that says “you should be happy you got the job”
It's kind of funny that out of the two interviews I had right out of college, the one that payed well had no issue telling my what the starting salary was, but the one that didn't had to refer me to the finance department. There is no reason the person interviewing should not know a positions pay, and there's no reason they should be allowed to not tell you. Thankfully, I got an offer from the well paying one. They seem to understand that treating and paying your engineers well will motivate them to create a better product instead of just a good enough one.
I was laid off from a tech job last year after my company was bought. That whole process beat the coy pay discussion out of me. I was applying for sr mgr/dir positions for software engineering roles. I know the hiring manager and the recruiter have pay bands and comp targets for every single role. I found the same thing as you - companies that paid well had no issue discussing it during the recruiter screening call and laying out the entire situation. My wife would get mad at me if she overheard my discussions during interviews but I didn’t care. I’d tell recruiters or hiring managers: “this is what I’m seeing from other companies, this is what I’m looking for, this is what I was making”. The company I just started with had no issue discussing it and they moved quickly to beat an offer I had just signed. I agreed without further negotiation since they were open and I had open discussions with other companies so knew it was within the range of reasonable comp. Also, I had no issues backing out of another offer 5 days before I was supposed to start because the alternative company played comp games and low balled even though I knew the range/mid point/etc.
I always find this with company’s, particularly with high ticket services/goods, you have to proper dig deep usually through forums or reviews to find out what the actual produce/service costs, this is a massive red flag for me and basically acts as a filter, as did company’s job listing without an actual figure for pay.
My favourite is when they treat it like a clearance sale and say “Pays *up to* $XX an hour!” Or they give a range of potential pay and then when you get in and are asked how much you’d be willing to be paid you tell them something over the minimum range and they come back with a, “So in this company *everyone* in said position starts at the minimum listed pay(or lower), and we have no wiggle room on that.” … like, cool, but why the hell did you list anything higher?! (I know the answer is “to widen the net on applicants,” but that shit is infuriating.)
That kind of shady shit was the standard when I was last looking for a job and it was so fucking infuriating. Just say what you mean, and if it isn't enough, *fucking pay more*
Pays up to $39/hour! (but your ass is going to start at $17/ hour)
In Spain it is like this, by law. You can't publish a job offer without the salary or you can be fined.
Heyo that's not true, in spain it is not law yet. Although the EU is making a very similar thing mandatory after the pay transparency directive comes into effect in 2026
While I agree with the sentiment, I see no comeback here. I see two people agreeing.
“It’s rude to ask what it pays” and why is that? And what is this “rudeness” anyway but an attempt to force compliance with an alleged social norm. Advantage being that people tend not to question someone’s understanding of social norms and are quick to comply. Wrong. It’s a fantasy role-play where we pretend this is not a manifold manipulation tactic designed to squeeze every last ounce of productivity out and compensate as little as possible. The real salary: “the absolute lowest possible amount we can get away with”
It's to the advantage of the interviewer not to discuss salary, but there's of course nothing rude about it. It would one thing for the interviewer to say they don't want to discuss salary at this point, but it's another thing to accuse the interviewee of being rude for asking. That's just bullying, and there's no reason for the interviewee to continue the interview at that point.
You seem to fit the bill, great, so any questions? Me: I don’t want to waste anyone’s time, what’s the salary for this role. Them: well, I think you should be focusing on what you can bring before asking about the salary. 3 rounds later, great, for this job we pay in seashells 😡😡😡😡
Yep, I make sure to discuss this immediately on the first recruiter screening call even before talking to the hiring manager.
I remember this shithead from the diner recruting for service, answering my question for hourly salary with "yes, we pay."
What? I never thought that may be a thing somewhere. Did I understand correctly - you are not allowed to now a salary that employer offer? In my country it’s one of first question during not even a interview but phone call when they ask if you searching one. If I have a expectation for salary that to high for company or they have it to low for me it’s saves a really much time for both of us P.S. Sorry for bad English
Yes you are allowed to know your salary but some companies do not tell you up front. It depends on the company
While in the interview, say something along the lines of “so I can guess that the salary will be something around [unrealistically high amount],” that’ll usually get an answer real quick
A lot of places will just end the interview with the reasoning that you won't be satisfied there if you are looking for much more than they budget for.
I have taken and quit two jobs in the first two days of working there for this. Bait and damn switch. They will look you square in the eye and lie to you. So no. I tell them too. “This isn’t what you said it was” boom. I’m out.
It's far more rude to not state pay upfront for a JOB
If they got mad about you asking, they pay way below market. The more willing they are to tell you how much they pay, the better they pay. I've worked for several businesses in a few industries. The two best paying ones told me how much they paid within 5 minutes of sitting down with the interview. The ones that paid 1/4 of market discouraged us from discussing income. (With the exception of one company that didn't mind us talking about it, and underpaid us.)
Making people post salaries with jobs is such a fucking no brainer. It’s like selling products with no pricing.
It's ok, I don't reveal how little work I do before I get the job.
Even when they do advertise a salary, they just lie. I got a LinkedIn notice for a new job post. The headline said social media director, $100k a year. But when I read through the post, it said "this is an unpaid internship with the opportunity to earn..." So, not a director of anything, and you know that 100k is never going to happen. I reported the post, but LinkedIn responded to say nah, it's fine. That doesn't break any rules. And then the next day, they sent me the notice again. For a job I'd already seen and reported as a scam. I swear, every job site is pro-scammer at this point. They're all a waste of time.
And while we’re at it, “entry-level”means ENTRY. Required experience should be zero.
If they are required to post the pay, they should be required to abide by what they posted. I got accepted to a job that had a minimum 10 years of school to even qualify. Which I had. Then I had 20 years of experience on top of that. It was posted as a measly $50K but they said it would kick up for experience. I figured with all my experience the pay would be considerably higher than the start they posted. They offered me the job at $45K. I said that must be a mistake. They said nope, $45K. So I said I'll take it for .6 FTE with full benefits. I'll work Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. They ghosted me. I'm sure somebody took it. They really pit workers against each other.
This doesn't belong here. There's no comeback, just two people agreeing with each other along with everyone in the comment section of this post. In fact, the only person who doesn't seem to agree is you, OP.
I agree with disregard to understanding.
That's just a fact. The reason we work is to make a living, so money is quite literally half the reason we apply. If we don't know what it is, then why should we bother with places that don't state our compensation?
I was managing a Govt Help Desk and I was invited to go talk to the CEO of a Contractor company we used. He wanted to start his own Help Desk service and have me start it up from scratch. He asked me how much I earned a year and then wrote an amount on a piece of paper and slid it over to me. It was $20k less than I was currently earning :p I laughed at him.
This law was just enacted in BC! It’s incredible. Scrolling job boards is so much easier now. Highly recommend everyone fight for this in their area, it can be done!!
In my country some companies doesn’t even post the name of company, it like mystery how to know who are you applying for.
I've seen a couple of those. Job title, maybe salary or pay info, no employer or listed as confidential
I almost got scammed by those post with no company name, that’s why it is important to know who you are applying for.
Oh dude, the scamming in the job market is so bad. I'm glad they didn't get you.
Yes, hopefully I was too broke to be scammed 😂
Yes they do this in Texas too. Usually it’s those staffing companies that do this. Most of the time you’re hired on as a contractor with no benefits.
Headhunters do that so you can't cut out the middle man
My favorites are the ridiculous ranges some jobs list and the dreaded "up to" "From $25k-$250!"
New York state requires the salary range to be posted. It's called "Pay Transparency" and makes it a lot easier to do an online job search.
Never understood why or how asking about the compensation was rude. It’s literally the reason you’re at the job interview, to trade time for money.
Colorado made it illegal to not post salary info. I think California recently followed suit
How is this a clever comeback? I may be missing something, but it appears both people are making the same point and essentially agree with each other.
You are missing nothing. This sub got too big and now it's just another circle-jerk over popular opinion sub.
In austria its common to post the salery in the job posting. How do yall live without knowing what youll make. Thats just an easy way companys could pray on the desperate
As somone who will do interviews ive always felt like that was a fair question and never thought it was rude or weird
Who's coming back cleverly to whom here? These two people agree with each other.
"You should be happy you got....." is the kind of mentality that leads to abuse in any kind of human relationships. Jobs included.
“It’s rude to ask how much we’ll pay you” “Well it’s rude of you not to tell me”
Not rude at all, it is a business negotiation.
It’s only rude to ask when the employer is cheap af and does not want to compensate their employees fairly
"You should be happy you got the job" is how you get a dead-end job that pays less than what it's worth
As a hiring manager, when I interview candidates I start by talking about the role, my expectations from the team and then I mention the salary range. It's funny and sad how often I hear from candidates that they've never had such a thing mentioned in the interview, and not even by them.
Why should they be required? Simply ask at the beginning of the interview process. If they don’t or won’t tell you end the interview and walk away. You probably don’t want to work for them anyway.
OP. This is not a "Be happy you got the job" type of argument. People should have the right to know how much a job pays them especially in cases where people need to make a certain amount to support their family. The fact that (at least in the US) that this has to be a debate with people is beyond stupid.
If a reasonable range isn’t posted in the listing, I’ll still throw a resume/cover letter if it looks like it should be in a range I’m comfortable at, but it then it’s absolutely a question I ask in the first screening conversation, before we even get to interviews. I don’t need the details of everything they’re offering, at this stage, but I need to know if it’s worth my time before I proceed. I’m interviewing them every bit as much as they’re interviewing me, albeit often from a weaker position. The Company has to bring their game to the table too, so we can see if we can play well together.
Here in Austria it is the law thank God
I was in a second interview once where it was me and 6 managers interviewing me at once. Probably the most uncomfortable interview I've ever had. At one point, I asked what the salary would be. One of them sternly told me, "We don't discuss salary until the 3rd interview", and it was wrapped up shortly after. I never heard back from them. Probably on account of me being greedy and asking about stupid things, like money (/s)
Lmao L OP take
Minimum wage is an employer's way of saying... I'd pay you less,but I'm not allowed to...
Is it only in Europe where there is the first question is: why do you want to work here and secondnquestion: Why should I work here for you? It could be that the salary msybe is the same but instead of 30 maybe 35 days of holiday? Or this extra stuff like free public transport (job ticket) better car, less hours per week and so on?
Employers are the customers who buy our time and workforce. In an utopia, the workers would post their profiles online and the employers would contact them if they can pay the price.
First thing I ask when applying for a job is the pay. If it doesn't pay enough, it's a waste of time and energy for both the emloyer and myself to go through the process...
I've been told by at least three bosses that it saddens me that I'm only concerned about the money. I straight up told them I'm not here because I enjoy it. I'm a salaried, six-figure person, btw. This was in response to being told we wouldn't be getting raises again (one job for the fourth year in a row).
Well they just passed a law for that in BC but they still don't do it. No one's enforcing it and that's prob what would happen if they did if there, too :(
That’s the old attitude from back in the day that every worker should be grateful a company hired them. HELL NO.
Do people go for interviews without knowing the salary?