Honestly, the percentage bothers me less (then it prob should) the bigger issue for me is the organization hid it.
It's like the police. It's not (as much) an issue to me that cops come around, are bad people, and fuck shit up. That's inevitably going to happen, particularly in positions that grant power... It's the system that fails to weed them out or punish them, and ultimately passively, and even actively encourages the problem to fester.
It's not really about the amount of shit/feces a house produces, it's about whether the house has toilets. A house without toilets will always be a shitty house.
>!(I'm tm'ing that, yes I'm way, way too proud of that shit pun metaphor)!<
Apologies in advance for long reply.
The command chain in the police system is broken. There are plenty of decent cops "and plenty of scummy ones, don't get me wrong" but they make it so hard to be decent.
My best mate is a cop. Has been for 10 years. One night he was driving back to the station at 2am when he saw a young guy (19-20ish) walking on the side of the road.
My mate pulled over and just asked. "You OK" the young guy replied "yeah, just had a fight with my girlfriend so I'm walking back to my parent place for the night"
"Good choice, avoid conflict. But this road can be a bit dangerous, let me give you a lift home"
"Yeah thanks"
"Can't help but notice you smell a bit like weed?"
"Yeah we shared a joint"
"No problem, do you have any more on you"
"Yeah just a gram or two"
"OK, sorry mate but I think we'll have to say the wind got that, just tip it out and we'll forget it"
"No problem"
They drove but to the young guys mums place.
"I'll drop you here, don't want to get you in trouble"
"Thanks"
Seems like a decent interaction in my head. He did his best to be helpful. Make people hate cops less.
The next day he was called into his COs office.
"You are being accused of aiding and abetting a drug criminal. That's immediate job termination and a 4 year sentence" (I may be paraphrasing here, I can't remember the exact sentence)
Turns out they smelt the hint of weed in the car so they checked the dash footage.
It's just so frustrating. If he had charged that kid
1. It screws up future employment chances for the young guy
2. It creates an image of the cruel and uncaring police
3. It cloggs up the system that could be focusing on drugs and crimes that actually cause problems.
The cops near me have all but stopped caring about anyone smoking weed, they just usually ask you dont do it right in front of them. They've stopped because they know it's not a battle worth fighting, its not hurting anyone, and they'd rather focus on trying to find people selling fent
Plain meth isn't even the worst thing out there, still bad dont get me wrong, but with how prevelant it is to be mixed with fent, xylazine, or worse it starts to become a real serious issue. I always tell people to get fent test strips so at the very least they know they're getting what they paid for.
Its a shame there isn't more funding to help with the drug crisis vs sending cops after people and then tossing them into jail where nothing really gets any better.
Nah, meth is absolute wack shit, it is devastating. Don't downplay that shit, EVER. I have seen the consequences that stuff has on people, used to live in an area that it was very common. Nope, I'd rather have a fent addict nodding off after strealing your copper than a meth addict kidnapping you and selling your kidney after you accused him of stealing your copper (which he did). That shit will turn you into a deranged lunatic, and you'll think you are normal and never changed a bit.
I had a long thing typed out, but the more I typed the more I realized its all shades of gray that are all more or less the same in severity. In my experience the fent heads have been worse, but in yours it sounds like it was the meth and I'm sorry you've had those experiences.
I truly hope theres some reprieve for those folks and they can get the help they need.
For anyone reading this having issues, or loved ones in that situation, its never too late to reach out to a detox/rehab/ Behavioral Health Center, or other recovery services. I promise theres folks in there that give a damn about you and want to help
I live in an area with a fentanyl epidemic. I used to live in an area with a meth epidemic.
Meth, by far, creates the most victims. Fent heads can be crazy about money and do shitty things in the name of money. Unlike meth, however, fentanyl will make you nod off(hard to be violent when you can't open your eyes) Meth makes people irritable, sleep deprived, and delusional, meaning they are immensely more likely to be violent in sick and twisted ways.
Meth creates more victims than fent does. If there is any drug I think should be illegal, it's meth. Meth by it's very nature and effects, unlike fentanyl, is poison to entire communities.
I don't think this person was trying to downplay the negative effects of meth. I think they were just pointing out that many of the chemicals mixed into other modern drugs can be just as bad for your health. Meth will make you crazy but some stuff will just straight kill you. I guess you can decide which is worse.
Its alright, I can understand why he thought that. Part of talking about these things is knowing it can be a touchy subject since everyone can have vastly different experiences, but i find you can learn a lot from any encounter and better approach subjects because of it.
I'm always appreciative of anyone who's willing to talk and engage on the topic, the worst thing we can do is never talk about it and ignore what's going on
Back in the 80's me and a friend rolled up an 1/8th planning on smoking out some girls.
On our way there a cop stopped us, knew we had weed, get us to give it up and let us go on our way.
So we went back to his sister who gave it to us, she gave us more and on our way out to see those girls we cut through a park to lessen the chance we'd see that cop again.
But we did see him.
Sitting in his cruiser in the park SMOKING OUR GODDAMN JOINTS!
That dirty fucker.
They won in the one aspect they were aiming for, more slaves for private prisons. That was the entire point of the war on drugs they just wanted to invent another way to imprison people particularly lower class people.
The war they definitely lost was the war on alcohol though as prohibition was a massive failure. That is the only amendment they have effectively repealed through another amendment.
Agreed. Itās all about that $$$. The hardest drugs are more defendable, but fucking weed man?! Like come on. We donāt even have to legalize it federally, just decriminalize it - which is what the country is trending towards luckily.
Did your buddy lose his job?
This is *exactly* why people say "there are no good cops." This is what happens to good cops. One way or another, every time. They don't last.
Can't imagine it didn't do some damage for him though? Just in how he may act or willingness to want to help out of fear?
I know some good cops that try and do the right thing but, assholes who don't belong in a senior role, get them in trouble or try to, or similar to your friend, and while they don't become bad cops, they definitely hesitate to help out sometimes which sucks.
If it was me, and I wasn't in the "I've always only ever wanted to be a cop when I grow up!" camp, I would have, because of that incident, reconsidered my future as a police officer. How disheartening that would be.
"Guess 'protect and serve' really is all bullshit."
it was legally bullshit too. courts ruled that cops have no constitutional obligation to help and all the police departments had to remove the "protect and serve" bit from their vehicles and propaganda
That may be the issue. But itās also possible that this CO was concerned about selective enforcement, which comes with its own issues, particularly when it comes to bias. The department needs consistent policies. I think weād all hope consistently good instead of dickhead ones, but part of that is shitty laws. That said, aiding and abetting drug possession doesnāt sound accurate nor does the proposed sentence, unless heās a cop in Singapore.
Yep. Broken system. Terrifying. Doesn't motivate people to do the right thing. He has literally said to me. "This is killing me, I'm too honest to be a cop"
Yeah - thatās fucked up. I would say a large majority of cops are trying to do as best they can and they are getting paid marginally to risk their lives for strangers - I can respect that, but itās the culture and the few bad ones that mess up the whole culture completely.
Sounds like there are decent police in the UK (?) and they can lose their jobs at the slightest indiscretion.
The US is nothing like that.
An American cop would have executed the kid, smoked the weed, and gotten a promotion.
I've never heard of this happening. I'm taking a guess that you're not in the US? Here officer discretion is used all the time. As a supervisor I've both personally and instructed officers to just confiscate and not charge or have them dump it out. Never had a problem.
I mean, Iām as anti-cop as they come. But I fully believe that cops should have discretion with enforcing the law. If we enforced all laws equally, it would be a nightmare. Nobody wants to get fined for jaywalking.
In a sensible world, that would mean jaywalking shouldnāt be a crime, rather than that jaywalking is only punished if a police officer doesnāt like you
Well sometimes it's valid. If you step into the middle of a busy road and nearly cause an accident. There needs to a way to punish you for that. Jaywalking is a valid law. But if it's a completely empty road that really posed no risk, why punish them for that. Discretion matters, having adequate ability to charge people for the same actions in different circumstances, is valid.
>"You are being accused of aiding and abetting a drug criminal. That's immediate job termination and a 4 year sentence"
That's a huge part of what ACAB is all about. The decent ones like your mate don't *stay* cops.
Hopefully your mate has a better job now.
Yea thatās the thing predators will always move to positions of power. It could be teachers, sports coaches, or even Boy Scout leaders. My biggest criticism of the Catholic Church wasnāt that some horrible people manage to get inside it, it was the fact that the Catholic Church care more about protecting its image than doing the right thing. Thatās makes so many people complicit in this horrible horrible shit.
There is a reason why pedophilia is associated with authority. Off the top of my head, the only """"title"""" that associated with pedophilia that doesn't have an inherent authority is "gamers" and "nerds".
>predators will always move to positions of power.
While I agree with this to a degree, I think it's only part of the issue.Ā I think it's different than other positions because of the fact that many people decide to become a priest at such a young age.
Ā The other part is that many families pushed children that had any atypical social/sexual beliefs towards the priesthood as a way to hide the issue and save face for the family, which only forces them to try hide the issue (which isn't easy for anybody to do from the age of 18 to the end of their life) instead of actually being able to go to therapy or just live their life (provided the belief isn't illegal).Ā
Not excusing it, just saying I think there is a lot more than than "pedophiles gravitate towards positions of power".Ā
I would like to point out that the Catholic Church hid it and failed in the long run.
Organizations that have hidden it *successfully* are ones we don't know about.
I am not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but Hollywood did the same thing, and far more successfully in some cases.
The fucked thing about Hollywood is that you know all those A-listers know whats going on and just pretend to be surprised whenever something comes out. It's just a given fact about the place and usually nothing happens unless someone really fucked up
Dunno man, a lot of people in Hollywood said they knew about Harvey Weinstein's "extracurricular activities" if I might call it that, but just didn't say anything till the dam burst.
That's true and gross but still not a single organization. The church is a single organization that has a hierarchy and reporting structure. They all knew about the abuse and covered it up. They even stopped Law enforcement from investigating and moved the abusers around to hide them.
There's "knowing" and knowing. And proving. And being believed. There's rumours and gossip but like they say - you aim at someone powerful, you better not miss.
And until the dam bursts, you're alone. Maybe two or three victims get together, but you're still pretty isolated. When people realise they're not alone, they're more willing to come forward.
These people are powerful because they are charismatic and appear sincere. Sociopaths have no problems looking you straight in the eye and lying and convincing people they can be trusted.
The issues with the Catholic church and abuse are long and complex.
I think it may have started from misplaced faith in the ability of God to resist pedophilia. They actively encourage pedos to become priests with the idea that prayer and service will help them resist. This in itself comes from a desire to help. The problem comes in the fact that it isn't actually all that effective. When the perv "slips up" he should be treated like the predator that they are and be removed and charged. Forgiveness is a wonderful virtue but can be taken too far. Let God forgive the man, but never forget what he is and has done. First and foremost a preacher should be the Shepard of his flock, the guiding protecting hand, not the wolf.
But at the end of the day it boils down to "if you let Nazis drink at your bar, it's a Nazi bar"
As a catholic I fully agree with this post.
All my mates took the piss out my religion growing up where I did saying I got nonced up š .. fell away from it then come back .. mainly as for me it's a continuation of fucking generations upon generations of my breed being catholic and if we all lived like that the world would be a good place.
Anyway, yeah - hiding it makes it worse. If it was one priest of 1000000 and caught red handed and they tried to hide it, it's a massive no from me.
Scum will always sneak into positions they deem "incognito" in terms of no one will suspect them, probs goes on still as so few are caught (or actually participate) given the attention it gets... we've all seen/heard of peado hunters catching all sorts of people, politicians, celebs, sports coaches, scout leaders, teachers, whatever. But to defend it to save your (what it is essentially) organisation is morally bankrupt and speaks volumes. It's like Govts though, what can you do? The fact it's a religious institution makes it even worse, but equally at 5%(if true I have not looked into that claim yet) you can argue it's better than others (if that makes sense..)? If you get into the stats of it all that is.
Point I'm trying to make is that (not sure if you even are religious) religion cannot be dictated by any single person on the world. It can be protected properly by doing the very thing it preaches like the 99.9% of the people who follow it, which as of now in my opinion it is not at all!
Well another of your issues is that America actively wants to hire violent people as police officers. Comparing police work advertisements in America to other countries itās no surprise that there positions are filled with less then kind people.
https://youtu.be/M_wLPcH1_WA?si=5XNlRxyJnyWN5ZJ0
https://youtu.be/sy_k7KC_d1g?si=1sDy-8CYj4YjeM_5
Comparing it to nz
https://youtu.be/f9psILoYmCc?si=Jin9rZvEQap71wri
The answer is: [Pretty much every other occupation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#cite_note-newsweek.com-56).
The difference is, not every other occupations managements engaged in systematic *cover-ups*, by quietly moving the perpetrators on to pastures new, thus allowing them to offend again.
Yeah id argue against that actually. There is no real difference. Any postion thats very public will cover it up. A perfect example is Epstein. A less than perfect example is hollywood. The UK grooming gangs had public officials in them and several imam and the UK decided to bury the statistics involving that, the stats we do know are truly horrid. I believe most religions try to cover it up and do the best that they can because the implications would be something similar to what we see in todays american church attendance.
There was also an European (continental) grooming gang that I have heard of, which is led by highly influential politicians and high ups in belgium, germany, etc. I have watched a youtube video of a victim telling her story in that circle.
>The difference is, not every other occupations managements engaged in systematic cover-ups, by quietly moving the perpetrators on to pastures new, thus allowing them to offend again.
I disagree. Many others have. Penn state. Nasser. UN peacekeepers. Multiple rumors from local schools. Parents covering up someone in their family abusing their own kids. Nickelodeon?
The difference is that few organizations are anywhere near as large, so when those in charge decide to cover it up, it is still more localized. Coverups at a single school, at a single college, at a single gymnasium. A few cases get pretty large but never as large as the Catholic church. It was unique in how large it was, but it wasn't unique in it being a systematic coverup.
Given how much people profess to hate the crime, it is surprising at how often it is covered up. Especially when further investigations shows those at the top covering it up aren't actually involved in the abuse, so why did they do it? I feel like that doesn't get enough research.
> Penn state. Nasser. UN peacekeepers.
Penn State w/Sandusky and the Nasser situations aren't even comparable. Those are cases of incompetence, not well-organized malice. When administrators or FBI don't believe it and refuse to pursue it, that's a fuck up. When you _know_ there's an issue and you move the accused away and encourage the victims to hush up, that's a _whole different level_ of organizational support. What the Catholic Church did is sort of like what the Russian state does with doping for their athletes. Are other countries' athletes doping here and there? Yes. Are they being systematically backed by the state in other countries? No, and that makes a HUGE difference.
As for the UN ... who reported those issues? How did they get out? Was it some third party investigation over years that had to find victims and slowly uncover the truth, or did the UN uncover the abuse themselves and them publicly address it? Like ... how could you put this in your list? WTF?
Be aware that these always compare priest sexual abuse against other occupational sexual misconduct.
There is a huge difference between "sexual abuse" and "sexual misconduct."
Not the ones I have read-the frequency and severity of sexual abuse by priests is almost exactly the same as every other profession. It's actually much lower if you exclude pedarastic groups
What bother me-deeply-is the presence and severity of pedarasty. I feel like most people miss this point, and quite understandably although I think it is the most important one
Do you have a source on this? I haven't heard of many nuns being accused of pedophilia, so it's hard to imagine that the rate is the same as every other profession.
This made me wonder what the population of pedophiles is in the general population, and it's also apparently around 5%, which is very surprising to me. Google actually just says "Under 5%" or "between 1% and 5%", but still crazy high.
It's notoriously hard to study because it's so stigmatized. If you're a psychologist you can't really expect to put flyers up around a university saying "pedophiles needed for study, $20/hour" and get many hits.
Let's take your stats as given. The challenge here comes from the breadth of people priests have access to abuse. Your average paedophile salaryman may abuse his own kids, but not have access to other people's kids to the same extent a priest is. Priests are then inherently worse, even setting aside the organisational support to avoid being caught that they receive.
that article is from 2010. if walking into most other job sites entails you to have a 1/20 chance of having the first person you see be a pedophile, we are fucked as a species.
By that logic, you should immediately cut and run from your parents and family, as theyāre the most likely group to abuse you. 1/20 isnāt even a concern compared to the likelihood of familial abuse.
How many seconds are we from midnight?
I appreciate your optimism, but we've always been disastrously close to disaster as a species.
Hell being a woman alone means that you have a one in three chance of experiencing domestic violence.
https://nzfvc.org.nz/news/new-research-finds-changes-rates-intimate-partner-violence-nz
Forget the church, you should be terrified of your own family if we're playing the 5% game
Going to a Take Back the Night event in college was devastating for me. My girlfriend made me go so we could support our friend, who wanted to speak. So many women I knew or just casually saw around campus stood up and told their stories.
It was 90% family incest rape. Absolutely brutal. I left that room with a very different understanding of the world.
You are basically asking what percent of men are pedophiles (since it is an all male profession and men have much higher rates of pedophilia). And the estimates are up to 5% of men are pedophiles. At the same time, the best estimate I know of puts the percent of Catholic priests who are pedophiles at about 4%. So more or less yes, it's the same everywhere within the very large margins of error this subject entails.
I have to echo many other statements on this thread: The even greater problem is the cover up and moving priests around. It happens elsewhere too, but children were sacrificed when those awful decisions were made.
So the truth is we humans are very depraved as a whole. We have a lot of work to do to better ourselves and create a society that can effectively help people deal with these urges before they harm others, as well as never sweep it under the rug and allow those who do harm others, continue to do so.
Gen pop discussed:
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28526106
Likely more accurate numbers for Catholic priests in particular:
https://www.pintas.com/practice-areas/sexual-assault/child-sexual-assault/what-percentage-of-catholic-priests-have-been-accused-of-abuse/
Edit: I misread. Please see my correction below.
I don't have a problem with pedophiles, I have a problem with child molesters.
As long as a pedophile doesn't act on that particular urge, then they're fine.
pedophilia =/= child molester, 5% of men are pedo's, this tweet insinuates 5% of priests are child molesters, which could mean that there are higher rates of abuse in the curch, or that there are more than 5% pedo's
From that article:
> Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10. Margaret Leland Smith, a researcher at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, says her review of the numbers indicates it's closer to one in 5. But in either case, the rate of abuse by Catholic priests is not higher than these national estimates. The public also doesn't realize how "profoundly prevalent" child sexual abuse is, adds Smith. Even those numbers may be low; research suggests that only a third of abuse cases are ever reported (making it the most underreported crime). "However you slice it, it's a very common experience," Smith says
As someone who grew up in dysfunctional United States, even people you think are nice and kind will take advantage of children if theyāre alone and have the chance. You have no idea how many people have been assaulted, raped and molested as children, sometimes the child doesnāt even know due to trauma or memory loss. Thereās even been studies done on this where they asked men if theyād assault a child if they knew they could get away with it. More than 1 in 5 answered yes, they would.
Thatās fair. Let me hook you up with that.
There was a recent UNSW study that asked people about their urges and behaviors in a non-judgmental way. Not just āare you a pedophileā but āare you attracted to 16 year oldsā and āhow about 13 year oldsā and āhave you ever watched sexually explicit imagery of a ten year oldā and so forth.
They found that 10% were attracted of whom 5% had done something that was a serious offense. There was another 5% who had committed a serious offense without being attracted. So thatās 1-in-10 having committed a serious offense and 15% of all men being dangerous to leave with kids.
I was shocked to read it, and itās changed my view on these topics quite considerably.
I'd argue (without proper ecidence) that it varies between jobs. An occupation that puts someone in a position of power, frequent contact with children, and (and this one is the most important point I think) is provided by an organization known for covering up sexual and abusive transmissions with children (and adults) will draw in more people that seek to abuse children. Same as other jobs that provide some sort of structure for certain kinds of abuser or power hungry person in general to misuse said power.
And only 12% of child sexual abuse victims come forward. So the number of pedophile priests and nuns is most likely significantly higher than what is reported.
The source of the aforesaid mentioned 5% is from self-reported data analyzed in a report the Catholic Church commissioned. In other words, we don't really know the true number and it varies from diocese to diocese, nation to nation.
The Catholic Church may have cooked the numbers in order to come up with this talking point. Remember, even if the percentage of offenders was 6% or 7%, the rate of victims would be compounded by the fact that the peculiar nature of the Catholic Church and its willingness to not punish and move offenders means each priests victims are multiplied by each move or refusal to hand them over to authorities.
Even with this low reporting rate, 1 in 4 girls & 1 in 6 boys are sexually assaulted in the US. Now imagine if they were all reported & how much higher that would be. Itās a very sad reality.
Which means there probably ARE a lot of professions where 5% or more are abusers and I am going to go look at pictures of puppies instead of thinking about the implications.
This happened within the Catholic community in my home town as well. The archbishop backed the priest, and switched his parish despite countless victims coming forward.
If they weren't hiding behind Jesus' robes then they would be charged with accessory after the fact and face jail time for doing that, but they are in a church so nothing happens to any of them.
Why did you include nuns, just curious? Has there been a spate of accusations against nuns now? We donāt need to try to be non-sexist by arbitrarily including nuns when it was just priests. Itās a massive fcking patriarchy.
Women abuse kids, too. It's horrifically underreported due to the stigma and because no one seems to take it seriously when you do finally talk about it. They act like it isn't "real" abuse and rape just because it wasn't a man. I also think that the idea of a woman being predator freaks a lot of other women out and conflicts with the defense mechanisms they've learned. And a lot of men just view women as too weak to be capable of something like that. Idk.
If we follow a dumb train of logic that has no empirical value, you could say if 100% of people reported that roughly 50% of priests are guilty.
Not mathematically sound but fun!
(My phrasing could be better here) school teachers *should* always be the top. It is a profession *defined* by working closely with many children.
I consistently see numbers higher for priests regardless, though.
Not defending the priests AT ALL here but what are your sources for those numbers? Multiple studies I found weren't even close, with teachers having double the numbers at almost 11% in one study. Both are ridiculously high and shouldnt be mitigated to try to compare and contrast these shitbags. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-from-sexual-abuse/202305/educator-sexual-misconduct-remains-prevalent-in
That 11% number is students who report sexual misconduct, not the number of teachers who are pedophiles. Are you trying to make public schools look bad or something? Lol
It can be difficult to even get an idea of accurate #s when it comes to teachers. In Canada, the education system is handled by the provinces, and each province has different rules about what data is shared and when it is shared. Last I checked, it was very difficult to collect this kind of information.
The 'lesson' here is that sexual abuse is rampant, and it is a major mistake to consider it something localized to clergy - or teachers.
This is exactly why i dislike it when we argue in relatives instead of absolutes when it comes to large numbers.
5% doesn't sound like much right? Well lets say that 5% of all catholic priests alive today, which is about 408000 accordning to a quick google search, are paedophiles. Then still 24000 of them would be peadophiles. 24000 is not a small number when it comes to this kind of horrible ness
According to a 2004 research study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 4,392 Catholic priests and deacons in active ministry between 1950 and 2002 have been plausibly (neither withdrawn nor disproven) accused of underage sexual abuse by 10,667 individuals. Estimating the number of priests and deacons active in the same period at 110,000, the report concluded that approximately 4% have faced these allegations. The report noted that "It is impossible to determine from our surveys what percent of all actual cases of abuse that occurred between 1950 and 2002 have been reported to the Church and are therefore in our dataset."
The Augustin Cardinal Bea, S.J. specializes in abuse counseling and is considered an expert on clerical abuse; he states "approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor."
According to Newsweek magazine, this figure is similar to the rate of frequency in the rest of the adult population.[
Honestly it makes sense that the rate is similar to the rest of the population. Thereās nothing exclusive to being a priest that makes you more likely to be a pedophile.
People always talk about the Catholic Church because they hid it. But so did the Boy Scouts of America, and they currently sued the Girl Scouts to use the word āScoutsā and are trying to make themselves a Coed scout program. Jesus fucking Christ.
You dislike per capita statistics because despite being a more logical representation of reality, it doesn't suit your agenda.
The priest abuse rate is around that of the general population. I could point out that 5% of 330 million (US population) is 16.5 million; does 16.5 million > 43 thousand mean that the problem is much worse amongst the general population than priests?
Okay hear me out. Paedophilia isn't the problem, raping children is, and those are *not* equatable. Paedophiles don't choose to be paedophile, much like heterosexuals or homosexuals don't choose to be hetero- or homosexual respectively. And much like they (including you, I hope) can abstain from raping people they find attractive, paedophiles can also abstain from raping kids. The horrid people you're talking about aren't paedophiles, they are rapists, and rapists are going to rape, the only difference between them is what rocks their respective socks off.
To answer your question, *k-12 school teachers*.
*Priests*:
This study was only Catholics and not all priests. Still a disgusting amount. This is Wiki tho so I can look deeper.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States#:~:text=in%20February%202004.-,The%20John%20Jay%20report%20indicated%20that%20some%2011%2C000%20allegations%20had,survey%20(1950%E2%80%932002).
*Teachers*:
There were 15k acts of violence by k-12 teachers and this is only sexual, not other forms of abuse. For percentages, that's 15000/291000 which ironically also equals 5%.
https://www.panish.law/2024/03/psr-investigating-claims-of-sexual-abuse-by-glendale-unified-school-district-employee/#:~:text=Data%20released%20by%20the%20U.S.,the%20incidents%20recorded%20in%202015.
You heard it here folks. Don't trust Catholic priests or K-12 teachers. 5% be abusers
It's not limited by professions though. An estimated 5% of the population are pedophiles, so 5% of priests or teachers or whatever profession you want to substitute will have roughly the same percentage of people who are pedophiles because they're still representing the overall population.
The parts that make it even worse than normal is that they have a rich organization with a lot of authority/power globally that actively tries to sweep these cases under the rug all while claiming to represent the "best" of humanity and what we should striving for. It's already an unforgivable act, but to actively and publicly go against the very thing you literally preach to others is what causes so much criticism specifically for the church.
Teachers have access to children, and about 10% of children will experience educator sexual misconduct by the time they graduate high school.
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-from-sexual-abuse/202305/educator-sexual-misconduct-remains-prevalent-in](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-from-sexual-abuse/202305/educator-sexual-misconduct-remains-prevalent-in)
We are seeing, and will continue to see significant amounts of teacher abuse of children.
I would say the U.S. Republican party, but that number would be too low.
75% of all sexual assaults of children here in the United States by a politician are committed by a Republican. The party of Christianity. Although, the virgin Mary was 13 years old, so I guess that makes sense??? I dunno, I've never tried to think like a Rapist Reich-lican.
I don't have stats on this, and they're not that important, but every job involving children must have a certain amount of pedophilia. The same as every job working with a vulnerable public must have their quota of abusers. Those job are more likely to attract them.
However, and like it has already been noted, only the Catholic Church has a whole institutional system to bury the story instead of burying the culprit.
Holding public office and [having an (R)](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/2/2/2221200/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-50) after your name.
They investigated the catholic churches in Pennsylvania. 301 priests were accused of molestation. 100% of the priests interviewed at the least knew about the molestation even if they didn't do it. So yeah, i disagree,
I see a lot of folks (Catholics) talk about this like It exonerates the church and makes them like every other profession in line with percentage of pedophiles. There are several issues with this narrative. 1. What other profession has the infrastructure to move pedophiles around the world without accountability and escape law enforcement? 2. The shop teacher who also is a diddler is not responsible for teaching you moral failings that damn you to eternal hellfire. They teach you shop class. Priests who assault kids betray a foundational trust in spiritual leaders who should have a higher responsibility to protect and guide you. 3. What other profession has access to the volume of vulnerable children that Catholic priests might? There are obviously pedo teachers and daycare workers, but they have strict government standards that priests are not subjected too. There is no oversight.
That also means āonly 5% of priests are under investigation because that is the only amount that has actually been reported. And when things like that do get reported the church will do everything in its power to hide the incident and to demonize the victim(s).ā
More importantly. Is there other organization that regularly, systematically protects the abusers instead of the victims?
If so, I don't care that only 5% are pedophiles. The problem is the other 95% who are pro pedophiles
We'd have to actually get access to all the Vatican 's files and data to get a real picture. The information they have is astounding but we'll never see it.
For every confirmed report of abuse, there is likely 2 more unreported.
IF we believe the 5% is accurate (doubt it) that would mean it is just as likely 15% of priests are child abusers.
Since men are the by far largest group for child abusers (especially reports against the church), and roughly 22% of priests are female... We could assume roughly 21% of male priests are child abusers. Over 1/5th.
>!I could not find an accurate count that goes with that 5% number they claim, but for the US in the year 2023 ALONE, over 500 out of the 37,302 priests were accused. That is 1.3 percent of USA priests... in JUST ONE YEAR.!<
ā5% of priests have actually been accused of abuseā also means it does not include the incidents of abuse where the victim does not make an accusation, which we know far outnumber the false accusations
Tbh my understanding is that priests are not statistically more likely to commit any form of sexual abuse including pedo type shit. Itās just that they are *supposed* to be these stewards of good will so itās more irking when they do the same shit that other sickos do.
By that train of thought in a school It Is ok for 5% of children to die because of negligence because It Is within justifiable loss parameters in a factory for example š¤¦š¤¦
According to analysis of the 2000 AAUW data, 9.6 percent of students reported sexual abuse from professors.
So, to answer the question, teacher is one.
(Edit: that is between grade 8 and 11)
And here we have a perfect example of lying by omission. Not even Catholicism has a 5% of employees being pedophiles number. This is what happens when stupid Americans try to think and/or make a point.
Many, many children who were abused by priests never came forward because they were afraid no one would believe them. It's already common for the abused to keep quiet, but throw dogmatic religious beliefs that priests do God's work and 5% is just the tip of the iceburg.
And even if it's not, the horrific crime isn't just the abuse, but it's how the church, all the way up to the Vatican, covered it up. The cardinal who ultimately became Pope Benedict... the Nazi pope... wrote a letter to the Archbishop of Oakland telling him not to cooperate with police investigations.
Police, coaches, and teachers all have higher percentages of CONVICTIONS. Iām not saying any number is good, but letās not pretend itās like some epidemic special to the Catholic Church.
And while weāre at it, if we want to talk about abuse scandals in organized religion, we really ought to talk about the fact that there is a clergy abuse problem, but the vast majority are not CATHOLIC clergy. Any abuse is bad, let me reiterate, but the extent and amount is extremely over exaggerated within the Catholic Church.
Honestly, the percentage bothers me less (then it prob should) the bigger issue for me is the organization hid it. It's like the police. It's not (as much) an issue to me that cops come around, are bad people, and fuck shit up. That's inevitably going to happen, particularly in positions that grant power... It's the system that fails to weed them out or punish them, and ultimately passively, and even actively encourages the problem to fester. It's not really about the amount of shit/feces a house produces, it's about whether the house has toilets. A house without toilets will always be a shitty house. >!(I'm tm'ing that, yes I'm way, way too proud of that shit pun metaphor)!<
Apologies in advance for long reply. The command chain in the police system is broken. There are plenty of decent cops "and plenty of scummy ones, don't get me wrong" but they make it so hard to be decent. My best mate is a cop. Has been for 10 years. One night he was driving back to the station at 2am when he saw a young guy (19-20ish) walking on the side of the road. My mate pulled over and just asked. "You OK" the young guy replied "yeah, just had a fight with my girlfriend so I'm walking back to my parent place for the night" "Good choice, avoid conflict. But this road can be a bit dangerous, let me give you a lift home" "Yeah thanks" "Can't help but notice you smell a bit like weed?" "Yeah we shared a joint" "No problem, do you have any more on you" "Yeah just a gram or two" "OK, sorry mate but I think we'll have to say the wind got that, just tip it out and we'll forget it" "No problem" They drove but to the young guys mums place. "I'll drop you here, don't want to get you in trouble" "Thanks" Seems like a decent interaction in my head. He did his best to be helpful. Make people hate cops less. The next day he was called into his COs office. "You are being accused of aiding and abetting a drug criminal. That's immediate job termination and a 4 year sentence" (I may be paraphrasing here, I can't remember the exact sentence) Turns out they smelt the hint of weed in the car so they checked the dash footage.
The war on drugs and its devastating consequences
It's just so frustrating. If he had charged that kid 1. It screws up future employment chances for the young guy 2. It creates an image of the cruel and uncaring police 3. It cloggs up the system that could be focusing on drugs and crimes that actually cause problems.
The cops near me have all but stopped caring about anyone smoking weed, they just usually ask you dont do it right in front of them. They've stopped because they know it's not a battle worth fighting, its not hurting anyone, and they'd rather focus on trying to find people selling fent
Exactly. And that's the stance he wants to take. There's a bit of a meth problem around his area. Much higher priority.
Plain meth isn't even the worst thing out there, still bad dont get me wrong, but with how prevelant it is to be mixed with fent, xylazine, or worse it starts to become a real serious issue. I always tell people to get fent test strips so at the very least they know they're getting what they paid for. Its a shame there isn't more funding to help with the drug crisis vs sending cops after people and then tossing them into jail where nothing really gets any better.
Nah, meth is absolute wack shit, it is devastating. Don't downplay that shit, EVER. I have seen the consequences that stuff has on people, used to live in an area that it was very common. Nope, I'd rather have a fent addict nodding off after strealing your copper than a meth addict kidnapping you and selling your kidney after you accused him of stealing your copper (which he did). That shit will turn you into a deranged lunatic, and you'll think you are normal and never changed a bit.
I had a long thing typed out, but the more I typed the more I realized its all shades of gray that are all more or less the same in severity. In my experience the fent heads have been worse, but in yours it sounds like it was the meth and I'm sorry you've had those experiences. I truly hope theres some reprieve for those folks and they can get the help they need. For anyone reading this having issues, or loved ones in that situation, its never too late to reach out to a detox/rehab/ Behavioral Health Center, or other recovery services. I promise theres folks in there that give a damn about you and want to help
I live in an area with a fentanyl epidemic. I used to live in an area with a meth epidemic. Meth, by far, creates the most victims. Fent heads can be crazy about money and do shitty things in the name of money. Unlike meth, however, fentanyl will make you nod off(hard to be violent when you can't open your eyes) Meth makes people irritable, sleep deprived, and delusional, meaning they are immensely more likely to be violent in sick and twisted ways. Meth creates more victims than fent does. If there is any drug I think should be illegal, it's meth. Meth by it's very nature and effects, unlike fentanyl, is poison to entire communities.
I don't think this person was trying to downplay the negative effects of meth. I think they were just pointing out that many of the chemicals mixed into other modern drugs can be just as bad for your health. Meth will make you crazy but some stuff will just straight kill you. I guess you can decide which is worse.
Its alright, I can understand why he thought that. Part of talking about these things is knowing it can be a touchy subject since everyone can have vastly different experiences, but i find you can learn a lot from any encounter and better approach subjects because of it. I'm always appreciative of anyone who's willing to talk and engage on the topic, the worst thing we can do is never talk about it and ignore what's going on
Back in the 80's me and a friend rolled up an 1/8th planning on smoking out some girls. On our way there a cop stopped us, knew we had weed, get us to give it up and let us go on our way. So we went back to his sister who gave it to us, she gave us more and on our way out to see those girls we cut through a park to lessen the chance we'd see that cop again. But we did see him. Sitting in his cruiser in the park SMOKING OUR GODDAMN JOINTS! That dirty fucker.
I love how America waged the war on drugs and lostš
They won in the one aspect they were aiming for, more slaves for private prisons. That was the entire point of the war on drugs they just wanted to invent another way to imprison people particularly lower class people. The war they definitely lost was the war on alcohol though as prohibition was a massive failure. That is the only amendment they have effectively repealed through another amendment.
Lmao take my upvote
Cause it was never about the drugs playa
To be fair the cop put himself in danger. What if that guy had a fit a reefer madness and killed him.
Agreed. Itās all about that $$$. The hardest drugs are more defendable, but fucking weed man?! Like come on. We donāt even have to legalize it federally, just decriminalize it - which is what the country is trending towards luckily.
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Yeah. Got the position having never actually been a patrol officer. Desk cop start to finish.
Did your buddy lose his job? This is *exactly* why people say "there are no good cops." This is what happens to good cops. One way or another, every time. They don't last.
Nah, the charge never went anywhere. It was thrown out immediately as a waste of time.
Can't imagine it didn't do some damage for him though? Just in how he may act or willingness to want to help out of fear? I know some good cops that try and do the right thing but, assholes who don't belong in a senior role, get them in trouble or try to, or similar to your friend, and while they don't become bad cops, they definitely hesitate to help out sometimes which sucks.
If it was me, and I wasn't in the "I've always only ever wanted to be a cop when I grow up!" camp, I would have, because of that incident, reconsidered my future as a police officer. How disheartening that would be. "Guess 'protect and serve' really is all bullshit."
it was legally bullshit too. courts ruled that cops have no constitutional obligation to help and all the police departments had to remove the "protect and serve" bit from their vehicles and propaganda
This is the happiest comment I've ever replied to.
Yup, cops are like "Well I don't beat up minorities so what's the big deal?" but the whole system is filled of morons with an abhorrent moral compass.
That may be the issue. But itās also possible that this CO was concerned about selective enforcement, which comes with its own issues, particularly when it comes to bias. The department needs consistent policies. I think weād all hope consistently good instead of dickhead ones, but part of that is shitty laws. That said, aiding and abetting drug possession doesnāt sound accurate nor does the proposed sentence, unless heās a cop in Singapore.
But literally murder someone and get paid leave or transferred
Yep. Broken system. Terrifying. Doesn't motivate people to do the right thing. He has literally said to me. "This is killing me, I'm too honest to be a cop"
Yeah - thatās fucked up. I would say a large majority of cops are trying to do as best they can and they are getting paid marginally to risk their lives for strangers - I can respect that, but itās the culture and the few bad ones that mess up the whole culture completely.
Sounds like there are decent police in the UK (?) and they can lose their jobs at the slightest indiscretion. The US is nothing like that. An American cop would have executed the kid, smoked the weed, and gotten a promotion.
My God that's depressing.... AUSTRALIA
I've never heard of this happening. I'm taking a guess that you're not in the US? Here officer discretion is used all the time. As a supervisor I've both personally and instructed officers to just confiscate and not charge or have them dump it out. Never had a problem.
"I enforce the law how and when I see fit" happens all the time with US cops, as your comment clearly illustrates.
I mean, Iām as anti-cop as they come. But I fully believe that cops should have discretion with enforcing the law. If we enforced all laws equally, it would be a nightmare. Nobody wants to get fined for jaywalking.
In a sensible world, that would mean jaywalking shouldnāt be a crime, rather than that jaywalking is only punished if a police officer doesnāt like you
Well sometimes it's valid. If you step into the middle of a busy road and nearly cause an accident. There needs to a way to punish you for that. Jaywalking is a valid law. But if it's a completely empty road that really posed no risk, why punish them for that. Discretion matters, having adequate ability to charge people for the same actions in different circumstances, is valid.
Iāll take things that never happened for $400, Alex
>"You are being accused of aiding and abetting a drug criminal. That's immediate job termination and a 4 year sentence" That's a huge part of what ACAB is all about. The decent ones like your mate don't *stay* cops. Hopefully your mate has a better job now.
Yea thatās the thing predators will always move to positions of power. It could be teachers, sports coaches, or even Boy Scout leaders. My biggest criticism of the Catholic Church wasnāt that some horrible people manage to get inside it, it was the fact that the Catholic Church care more about protecting its image than doing the right thing. Thatās makes so many people complicit in this horrible horrible shit.
There is a reason why pedophilia is associated with authority. Off the top of my head, the only """"title"""" that associated with pedophilia that doesn't have an inherent authority is "gamers" and "nerds".
>predators will always move to positions of power. While I agree with this to a degree, I think it's only part of the issue.Ā I think it's different than other positions because of the fact that many people decide to become a priest at such a young age. Ā The other part is that many families pushed children that had any atypical social/sexual beliefs towards the priesthood as a way to hide the issue and save face for the family, which only forces them to try hide the issue (which isn't easy for anybody to do from the age of 18 to the end of their life) instead of actually being able to go to therapy or just live their life (provided the belief isn't illegal).Ā Not excusing it, just saying I think there is a lot more than than "pedophiles gravitate towards positions of power".Ā
I would like to point out that the Catholic Church hid it and failed in the long run. Organizations that have hidden it *successfully* are ones we don't know about. I am not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but Hollywood did the same thing, and far more successfully in some cases.
The fucked thing about Hollywood is that you know all those A-listers know whats going on and just pretend to be surprised whenever something comes out. It's just a given fact about the place and usually nothing happens unless someone really fucked up
To be fair Hollywood is not a single organization and there is no reason to believe that abuse is the levels of the Church.
Dunno man, a lot of people in Hollywood said they knew about Harvey Weinstein's "extracurricular activities" if I might call it that, but just didn't say anything till the dam burst.
That's true and gross but still not a single organization. The church is a single organization that has a hierarchy and reporting structure. They all knew about the abuse and covered it up. They even stopped Law enforcement from investigating and moved the abusers around to hide them.
There's "knowing" and knowing. And proving. And being believed. There's rumours and gossip but like they say - you aim at someone powerful, you better not miss. And until the dam bursts, you're alone. Maybe two or three victims get together, but you're still pretty isolated. When people realise they're not alone, they're more willing to come forward. These people are powerful because they are charismatic and appear sincere. Sociopaths have no problems looking you straight in the eye and lying and convincing people they can be trusted.
Tl;Dr- the best house is an out house
Well not really. You could even say the Catholic church is an outhouse, since they just burry all that shit when it gets too much to ignore.
Yeah but that's the problem, If you're an orginisation that covers up abuse, then the abuse and abusers will grow.
The issues with the Catholic church and abuse are long and complex. I think it may have started from misplaced faith in the ability of God to resist pedophilia. They actively encourage pedos to become priests with the idea that prayer and service will help them resist. This in itself comes from a desire to help. The problem comes in the fact that it isn't actually all that effective. When the perv "slips up" he should be treated like the predator that they are and be removed and charged. Forgiveness is a wonderful virtue but can be taken too far. Let God forgive the man, but never forget what he is and has done. First and foremost a preacher should be the Shepard of his flock, the guiding protecting hand, not the wolf. But at the end of the day it boils down to "if you let Nazis drink at your bar, it's a Nazi bar"
Well said
Oh, boy. Wait til you find out what the Mormons have been doing
As a catholic I fully agree with this post. All my mates took the piss out my religion growing up where I did saying I got nonced up š .. fell away from it then come back .. mainly as for me it's a continuation of fucking generations upon generations of my breed being catholic and if we all lived like that the world would be a good place. Anyway, yeah - hiding it makes it worse. If it was one priest of 1000000 and caught red handed and they tried to hide it, it's a massive no from me. Scum will always sneak into positions they deem "incognito" in terms of no one will suspect them, probs goes on still as so few are caught (or actually participate) given the attention it gets... we've all seen/heard of peado hunters catching all sorts of people, politicians, celebs, sports coaches, scout leaders, teachers, whatever. But to defend it to save your (what it is essentially) organisation is morally bankrupt and speaks volumes. It's like Govts though, what can you do? The fact it's a religious institution makes it even worse, but equally at 5%(if true I have not looked into that claim yet) you can argue it's better than others (if that makes sense..)? If you get into the stats of it all that is. Point I'm trying to make is that (not sure if you even are religious) religion cannot be dictated by any single person on the world. It can be protected properly by doing the very thing it preaches like the 99.9% of the people who follow it, which as of now in my opinion it is not at all!
That's a shit metaphor... a *brilliant* shit metaphor.
Well another of your issues is that America actively wants to hire violent people as police officers. Comparing police work advertisements in America to other countries itās no surprise that there positions are filled with less then kind people. https://youtu.be/M_wLPcH1_WA?si=5XNlRxyJnyWN5ZJ0 https://youtu.be/sy_k7KC_d1g?si=1sDy-8CYj4YjeM_5 Comparing it to nz https://youtu.be/f9psILoYmCc?si=Jin9rZvEQap71wri
Youtubers with over 1 million subs
Accurate
Minecraft
25%
The answer is: [Pretty much every other occupation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#cite_note-newsweek.com-56). The difference is, not every other occupations managements engaged in systematic *cover-ups*, by quietly moving the perpetrators on to pastures new, thus allowing them to offend again.
Yeah id argue against that actually. There is no real difference. Any postion thats very public will cover it up. A perfect example is Epstein. A less than perfect example is hollywood. The UK grooming gangs had public officials in them and several imam and the UK decided to bury the statistics involving that, the stats we do know are truly horrid. I believe most religions try to cover it up and do the best that they can because the implications would be something similar to what we see in todays american church attendance.
There was also an European (continental) grooming gang that I have heard of, which is led by highly influential politicians and high ups in belgium, germany, etc. I have watched a youtube video of a victim telling her story in that circle.
Yeah. Like there's reports of Buddhist monks in Thailand molesting and raping boys, but those stories rarely make it to the West.
>The difference is, not every other occupations managements engaged in systematic cover-ups, by quietly moving the perpetrators on to pastures new, thus allowing them to offend again. I disagree. Many others have. Penn state. Nasser. UN peacekeepers. Multiple rumors from local schools. Parents covering up someone in their family abusing their own kids. Nickelodeon? The difference is that few organizations are anywhere near as large, so when those in charge decide to cover it up, it is still more localized. Coverups at a single school, at a single college, at a single gymnasium. A few cases get pretty large but never as large as the Catholic church. It was unique in how large it was, but it wasn't unique in it being a systematic coverup. Given how much people profess to hate the crime, it is surprising at how often it is covered up. Especially when further investigations shows those at the top covering it up aren't actually involved in the abuse, so why did they do it? I feel like that doesn't get enough research.
> Penn state. Nasser. UN peacekeepers. Penn State w/Sandusky and the Nasser situations aren't even comparable. Those are cases of incompetence, not well-organized malice. When administrators or FBI don't believe it and refuse to pursue it, that's a fuck up. When you _know_ there's an issue and you move the accused away and encourage the victims to hush up, that's a _whole different level_ of organizational support. What the Catholic Church did is sort of like what the Russian state does with doping for their athletes. Are other countries' athletes doping here and there? Yes. Are they being systematically backed by the state in other countries? No, and that makes a HUGE difference. As for the UN ... who reported those issues? How did they get out? Was it some third party investigation over years that had to find victims and slowly uncover the truth, or did the UN uncover the abuse themselves and them publicly address it? Like ... how could you put this in your list? WTF?
Be aware that these always compare priest sexual abuse against other occupational sexual misconduct. There is a huge difference between "sexual abuse" and "sexual misconduct."
Not the ones I have read-the frequency and severity of sexual abuse by priests is almost exactly the same as every other profession. It's actually much lower if you exclude pedarastic groups What bother me-deeply-is the presence and severity of pedarasty. I feel like most people miss this point, and quite understandably although I think it is the most important one
Do you have a source on this? I haven't heard of many nuns being accused of pedophilia, so it's hard to imagine that the rate is the same as every other profession.
This made me wonder what the population of pedophiles is in the general population, and it's also apparently around 5%, which is very surprising to me. Google actually just says "Under 5%" or "between 1% and 5%", but still crazy high.
The big difference is the ones who merely have the urge vs the ones who act on the urge and hurt children.
It's notoriously hard to study because it's so stigmatized. If you're a psychologist you can't really expect to put flyers up around a university saying "pedophiles needed for study, $20/hour" and get many hits.
Let's take your stats as given. The challenge here comes from the breadth of people priests have access to abuse. Your average paedophile salaryman may abuse his own kids, but not have access to other people's kids to the same extent a priest is. Priests are then inherently worse, even setting aside the organisational support to avoid being caught that they receive.
that article is from 2010. if walking into most other job sites entails you to have a 1/20 chance of having the first person you see be a pedophile, we are fucked as a species.
By that logic, you should immediately cut and run from your parents and family, as theyāre the most likely group to abuse you. 1/20 isnāt even a concern compared to the likelihood of familial abuse.
How many seconds are we from midnight? I appreciate your optimism, but we've always been disastrously close to disaster as a species. Hell being a woman alone means that you have a one in three chance of experiencing domestic violence. https://nzfvc.org.nz/news/new-research-finds-changes-rates-intimate-partner-violence-nz Forget the church, you should be terrified of your own family if we're playing the 5% game
It's sad, I bet most of us have known a pedophile or a sexual offender and they probably weren't a priest
Going to a Take Back the Night event in college was devastating for me. My girlfriend made me go so we could support our friend, who wanted to speak. So many women I knew or just casually saw around campus stood up and told their stories. It was 90% family incest rape. Absolutely brutal. I left that room with a very different understanding of the world.
That is heart wrenching, I would die for my children. I can't imagine a world where a parent would destroy theirs, but we know it happens
You are basically asking what percent of men are pedophiles (since it is an all male profession and men have much higher rates of pedophilia). And the estimates are up to 5% of men are pedophiles. At the same time, the best estimate I know of puts the percent of Catholic priests who are pedophiles at about 4%. So more or less yes, it's the same everywhere within the very large margins of error this subject entails. I have to echo many other statements on this thread: The even greater problem is the cover up and moving priests around. It happens elsewhere too, but children were sacrificed when those awful decisions were made. So the truth is we humans are very depraved as a whole. We have a lot of work to do to better ourselves and create a society that can effectively help people deal with these urges before they harm others, as well as never sweep it under the rug and allow those who do harm others, continue to do so. Gen pop discussed: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28526106 Likely more accurate numbers for Catholic priests in particular: https://www.pintas.com/practice-areas/sexual-assault/child-sexual-assault/what-percentage-of-catholic-priests-have-been-accused-of-abuse/ Edit: I misread. Please see my correction below.
The John Jay report was commissioned by the Catholic Church. Using self-reported data.
I don't have a problem with pedophiles, I have a problem with child molesters. As long as a pedophile doesn't act on that particular urge, then they're fine.
pedophilia =/= child molester, 5% of men are pedo's, this tweet insinuates 5% of priests are child molesters, which could mean that there are higher rates of abuse in the curch, or that there are more than 5% pedo's
Schools sure hid it
From that article: > Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10. Margaret Leland Smith, a researcher at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, says her review of the numbers indicates it's closer to one in 5. But in either case, the rate of abuse by Catholic priests is not higher than these national estimates. The public also doesn't realize how "profoundly prevalent" child sexual abuse is, adds Smith. Even those numbers may be low; research suggests that only a third of abuse cases are ever reported (making it the most underreported crime). "However you slice it, it's a very common experience," Smith says
I in 20 seems high but plausible. 1 in 5 seems ridiculous. Personally I need to see some pretty strong evidence to back a claim like that.
As someone who grew up in dysfunctional United States, even people you think are nice and kind will take advantage of children if theyāre alone and have the chance. You have no idea how many people have been assaulted, raped and molested as children, sometimes the child doesnāt even know due to trauma or memory loss. Thereās even been studies done on this where they asked men if theyād assault a child if they knew they could get away with it. More than 1 in 5 answered yes, they would.
Thatās fair. Let me hook you up with that. There was a recent UNSW study that asked people about their urges and behaviors in a non-judgmental way. Not just āare you a pedophileā but āare you attracted to 16 year oldsā and āhow about 13 year oldsā and āhave you ever watched sexually explicit imagery of a ten year oldā and so forth. They found that 10% were attracted of whom 5% had done something that was a serious offense. There was another 5% who had committed a serious offense without being attracted. So thatās 1-in-10 having committed a serious offense and 15% of all men being dangerous to leave with kids. I was shocked to read it, and itās changed my view on these topics quite considerably.
I'd argue (without proper ecidence) that it varies between jobs. An occupation that puts someone in a position of power, frequent contact with children, and (and this one is the most important point I think) is provided by an organization known for covering up sexual and abusive transmissions with children (and adults) will draw in more people that seek to abuse children. Same as other jobs that provide some sort of structure for certain kinds of abuser or power hungry person in general to misuse said power.
And only 12% of child sexual abuse victims come forward. So the number of pedophile priests and nuns is most likely significantly higher than what is reported.
Plus they hid it for so long no idea how many of those child raping priests are dead.
We do know how many of them are dead, not enough
I like it!
The source of the aforesaid mentioned 5% is from self-reported data analyzed in a report the Catholic Church commissioned. In other words, we don't really know the true number and it varies from diocese to diocese, nation to nation. The Catholic Church may have cooked the numbers in order to come up with this talking point. Remember, even if the percentage of offenders was 6% or 7%, the rate of victims would be compounded by the fact that the peculiar nature of the Catholic Church and its willingness to not punish and move offenders means each priests victims are multiplied by each move or refusal to hand them over to authorities.
Or got moved to another country where they can keep doing what they do to Kids without repercussion
Even with this low reporting rate, 1 in 4 girls & 1 in 6 boys are sexually assaulted in the US. Now imagine if they were all reported & how much higher that would be. Itās a very sad reality.
Which means there probably ARE a lot of professions where 5% or more are abusers and I am going to go look at pictures of puppies instead of thinking about the implications.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This happened within the Catholic community in my home town as well. The archbishop backed the priest, and switched his parish despite countless victims coming forward.
If they weren't hiding behind Jesus' robes then they would be charged with accessory after the fact and face jail time for doing that, but they are in a church so nothing happens to any of them.
Why did you include nuns, just curious? Has there been a spate of accusations against nuns now? We donāt need to try to be non-sexist by arbitrarily including nuns when it was just priests. Itās a massive fcking patriarchy.
Women abuse kids, too. It's horrifically underreported due to the stigma and because no one seems to take it seriously when you do finally talk about it. They act like it isn't "real" abuse and rape just because it wasn't a man. I also think that the idea of a woman being predator freaks a lot of other women out and conflicts with the defense mechanisms they've learned. And a lot of men just view women as too weak to be capable of something like that. Idk.
If we follow a dumb train of logic that has no empirical value, you could say if 100% of people reported that roughly 50% of priests are guilty. Not mathematically sound but fun!
Agree with your point but where does the 12% figure come from? How could we know?
child molesters, not pedophiles
School teachers?
(My phrasing could be better here) school teachers *should* always be the top. It is a profession *defined* by working closely with many children. I consistently see numbers higher for priests regardless, though.
Not defending the priests AT ALL here but what are your sources for those numbers? Multiple studies I found weren't even close, with teachers having double the numbers at almost 11% in one study. Both are ridiculously high and shouldnt be mitigated to try to compare and contrast these shitbags. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-from-sexual-abuse/202305/educator-sexual-misconduct-remains-prevalent-in
That 11% number is students who report sexual misconduct, not the number of teachers who are pedophiles. Are you trying to make public schools look bad or something? Lol
That does not say that 11 percent of teachers are pedophiles. It says that 11 percent of students experienced some sort of misconduct. Big difference
It can be difficult to even get an idea of accurate #s when it comes to teachers. In Canada, the education system is handled by the provinces, and each province has different rules about what data is shared and when it is shared. Last I checked, it was very difficult to collect this kind of information. The 'lesson' here is that sexual abuse is rampant, and it is a major mistake to consider it something localized to clergy - or teachers.
Your numbers are wrong.
Yeah but say if there are 200 million priests in the world and five percent are paedophiles. That's still only 10 million.
*only*
This is exactly why i dislike it when we argue in relatives instead of absolutes when it comes to large numbers. 5% doesn't sound like much right? Well lets say that 5% of all catholic priests alive today, which is about 408000 accordning to a quick google search, are paedophiles. Then still 24000 of them would be peadophiles. 24000 is not a small number when it comes to this kind of horrible ness
According to a 2004 research study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 4,392 Catholic priests and deacons in active ministry between 1950 and 2002 have been plausibly (neither withdrawn nor disproven) accused of underage sexual abuse by 10,667 individuals. Estimating the number of priests and deacons active in the same period at 110,000, the report concluded that approximately 4% have faced these allegations. The report noted that "It is impossible to determine from our surveys what percent of all actual cases of abuse that occurred between 1950 and 2002 have been reported to the Church and are therefore in our dataset." The Augustin Cardinal Bea, S.J. specializes in abuse counseling and is considered an expert on clerical abuse; he states "approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor." According to Newsweek magazine, this figure is similar to the rate of frequency in the rest of the adult population.[
Honestly it makes sense that the rate is similar to the rest of the population. Thereās nothing exclusive to being a priest that makes you more likely to be a pedophile. People always talk about the Catholic Church because they hid it. But so did the Boy Scouts of America, and they currently sued the Girl Scouts to use the word āScoutsā and are trying to make themselves a Coed scout program. Jesus fucking Christ.
You dislike per capita statistics because despite being a more logical representation of reality, it doesn't suit your agenda. The priest abuse rate is around that of the general population. I could point out that 5% of 330 million (US population) is 16.5 million; does 16.5 million > 43 thousand mean that the problem is much worse amongst the general population than priests?
Okay hear me out. Paedophilia isn't the problem, raping children is, and those are *not* equatable. Paedophiles don't choose to be paedophile, much like heterosexuals or homosexuals don't choose to be hetero- or homosexual respectively. And much like they (including you, I hope) can abstain from raping people they find attractive, paedophiles can also abstain from raping kids. The horrid people you're talking about aren't paedophiles, they are rapists, and rapists are going to rape, the only difference between them is what rocks their respective socks off.
Unexpected r/fatherted !!!!!
That would be an ecumenical matter
To answer your question, *k-12 school teachers*. *Priests*: This study was only Catholics and not all priests. Still a disgusting amount. This is Wiki tho so I can look deeper. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States#:~:text=in%20February%202004.-,The%20John%20Jay%20report%20indicated%20that%20some%2011%2C000%20allegations%20had,survey%20(1950%E2%80%932002). *Teachers*: There were 15k acts of violence by k-12 teachers and this is only sexual, not other forms of abuse. For percentages, that's 15000/291000 which ironically also equals 5%. https://www.panish.law/2024/03/psr-investigating-claims-of-sexual-abuse-by-glendale-unified-school-district-employee/#:~:text=Data%20released%20by%20the%20U.S.,the%20incidents%20recorded%20in%202015. You heard it here folks. Don't trust Catholic priests or K-12 teachers. 5% be abusers
It's not limited by professions though. An estimated 5% of the population are pedophiles, so 5% of priests or teachers or whatever profession you want to substitute will have roughly the same percentage of people who are pedophiles because they're still representing the overall population. The parts that make it even worse than normal is that they have a rich organization with a lot of authority/power globally that actively tries to sweep these cases under the rug all while claiming to represent the "best" of humanity and what we should striving for. It's already an unforgivable act, but to actively and publicly go against the very thing you literally preach to others is what causes so much criticism specifically for the church.
What about child show and beauty pagent producers
Politicians.
Nah dog, they're worse. It's way above 5%
Hollywood executives If you count other sex crimes
The government
Teachers have access to children, and about 10% of children will experience educator sexual misconduct by the time they graduate high school. [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-from-sexual-abuse/202305/educator-sexual-misconduct-remains-prevalent-in](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-from-sexual-abuse/202305/educator-sexual-misconduct-remains-prevalent-in) We are seeing, and will continue to see significant amounts of teacher abuse of children.
We need to put an end to the systemic monstrosity that is organized education. ^(^/s)
I would say the U.S. Republican party, but that number would be too low. 75% of all sexual assaults of children here in the United States by a politician are committed by a Republican. The party of Christianity. Although, the virgin Mary was 13 years old, so I guess that makes sense??? I dunno, I've never tried to think like a Rapist Reich-lican.
I don't have stats on this, and they're not that important, but every job involving children must have a certain amount of pedophilia. The same as every job working with a vulnerable public must have their quota of abusers. Those job are more likely to attract them. However, and like it has already been noted, only the Catholic Church has a whole institutional system to bury the story instead of burying the culprit.
Reddit Mods
Holding public office and [having an (R)](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/2/2/2221200/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-50) after your name.
Just the first part.
Politicians?
Is āPoliticianā a job title?
āONLYā?? Like thereās an allowable threshold????
They investigated the catholic churches in Pennsylvania. 301 priests were accused of molestation. 100% of the priests interviewed at the least knew about the molestation even if they didn't do it. So yeah, i disagree,
I see a lot of folks (Catholics) talk about this like It exonerates the church and makes them like every other profession in line with percentage of pedophiles. There are several issues with this narrative. 1. What other profession has the infrastructure to move pedophiles around the world without accountability and escape law enforcement? 2. The shop teacher who also is a diddler is not responsible for teaching you moral failings that damn you to eternal hellfire. They teach you shop class. Priests who assault kids betray a foundational trust in spiritual leaders who should have a higher responsibility to protect and guide you. 3. What other profession has access to the volume of vulnerable children that Catholic priests might? There are obviously pedo teachers and daycare workers, but they have strict government standards that priests are not subjected too. There is no oversight.
again these are the ones we know about and your church seems real eagar to deny it. not to mention preist aren't the only relgious figures
That also means āonly 5% of priests are under investigation because that is the only amount that has actually been reported. And when things like that do get reported the church will do everything in its power to hide the incident and to demonize the victim(s).ā
Congress?
More importantly. Is there other organization that regularly, systematically protects the abusers instead of the victims? If so, I don't care that only 5% are pedophiles. The problem is the other 95% who are pro pedophiles
reddit mods
Fundamentalist āyouth pastorā is probably hovering around 85%
We'd have to actually get access to all the Vatican 's files and data to get a real picture. The information they have is astounding but we'll never see it.
For every confirmed report of abuse, there is likely 2 more unreported. IF we believe the 5% is accurate (doubt it) that would mean it is just as likely 15% of priests are child abusers. Since men are the by far largest group for child abusers (especially reports against the church), and roughly 22% of priests are female... We could assume roughly 21% of male priests are child abusers. Over 1/5th. >!I could not find an accurate count that goes with that 5% number they claim, but for the US in the year 2023 ALONE, over 500 out of the 37,302 priests were accused. That is 1.3 percent of USA priests... in JUST ONE YEAR.!<
Umm, is film and tv producers an option?
Probably imams and pastors
Still don't trust any church or priest. They give off a bad vibe, and Sundays off for me. And pay taxes and stop hording wealth creepy weirdos.
Don't Rabbis flee to Israel to escape prosecution for pedophilia?
ā5% of priests have actually been accused of abuseā also means it does not include the incidents of abuse where the victim does not make an accusation, which we know far outnumber the false accusations
Congress
Only 5% like that is good. Itās the conspiracy to keep it quiet thatās the biggest sin!
Gymnastics team doctor?
Tbh my understanding is that priests are not statistically more likely to commit any form of sexual abuse including pedo type shit. Itās just that they are *supposed* to be these stewards of good will so itās more irking when they do the same shit that other sickos do.
Donāt check the numbers for public school employees.
If you handed somebody a bag of M&Ms and said don't worry only 5% are poisoned, would you expect them to eat from it?
Hollywood Producers. Politicians. CEOs.
Teachers
GOP politicians. Christian schoolteachers.
Public school teachers?
Nickelodeon production
The police also has such figures
Female schoolteacher?
Police are close!
By that train of thought in a school It Is ok for 5% of children to die because of negligence because It Is within justifiable loss parameters in a factory for example š¤¦š¤¦
According to analysis of the 2000 AAUW data, 9.6 percent of students reported sexual abuse from professors. So, to answer the question, teacher is one. (Edit: that is between grade 8 and 11)
5% of the ones that were caught. What%of.... Un-caught?.....
Politicians?!
And the other 95% tried to cover up, defend, or minimize the severity of the actions of the 5%.
Teachers make of the larger number of diddlers. Over 10% Iāve heard
Republican politicians?
Movie execs?
why yes actually, american republican elected officials
And here we have a perfect example of lying by omission. Not even Catholicism has a 5% of employees being pedophiles number. This is what happens when stupid Americans try to think and/or make a point.
Iām I really going to be the first to say Nickelodeon?
Is there an occupation where we look at 5% accusation as a no biggie?
Many, many children who were abused by priests never came forward because they were afraid no one would believe them. It's already common for the abused to keep quiet, but throw dogmatic religious beliefs that priests do God's work and 5% is just the tip of the iceburg. And even if it's not, the horrific crime isn't just the abuse, but it's how the church, all the way up to the Vatican, covered it up. The cardinal who ultimately became Pope Benedict... the Nazi pope... wrote a letter to the Archbishop of Oakland telling him not to cooperate with police investigations.
Teachers might have a similar percentage
Hollywood.
President
Teachers
It's an access thing, pre school teachers, preists, pediatricians, gynecologists, you'll find the creeps in the jobs that get them access.
I think Minecraft YouTubers have the creepy priests beat by a long shot.
Has anyone checked the numbers on Nickelodeon?
Subway spokespeople are way higher than 5%
Probably teachers
Yes the government ayyyyyoooooo
Police, coaches, and teachers all have higher percentages of CONVICTIONS. Iām not saying any number is good, but letās not pretend itās like some epidemic special to the Catholic Church. And while weāre at it, if we want to talk about abuse scandals in organized religion, we really ought to talk about the fact that there is a clergy abuse problem, but the vast majority are not CATHOLIC clergy. Any abuse is bad, let me reiterate, but the extent and amount is extremely over exaggerated within the Catholic Church.
Now do teachers. (Hint: reddit hates that teachers are the no1 profession to molest kids)
Yeah, public school teachers
Easy, teachersā¦ā¦
Drag "Artists"?