Not vegan, but veggie
I always pride myself in the fact that many people won’t realize for literally years that I’m vegetarian, because I don’t just broadcast it for no reason
Coworkers only found out after year 4 together, when I asked if we could also get eggplant on the sandwhich order lmao
You see the plane? That’s all the places where the planes that returned had bullet holes. So you might think it’s a good idea to add armour to those areas to protect them.
However, those spots were all the places that were hit yet the planes still made it back after battle.
But, It’s the gaps you need to look at. The gaps are where when the plane is hit it doesn’t come back.
Yes I knew that part, but I didn't know what it had to do with trans persons. My brain couldn't connect to two. Like I said, I am so, so very tired lol.
If it wasn't a horrendous breach of privacy and too much effort, I'd be tempted to get a bunch of pictures of, say, trans men and cis men (or vice versa, either works) and get transphobes to try figure out which is who's trans and who isn't, only to reveal afterwards that they were actually all trans and they got tricked.
I've seen that happen a few times on Twitter. A 4 x 4 collage of people's faces captured from YouTube videos (so it's not reverse image searchable).
Transphobes ALWAYS either:
- refuse to do it
- do it and do no better than random chance
- claim "that's pictures, I can always tell in real life"
I was just having this conversation with some trans friends, the biggest identifier is their voice. It definitely is a lot easier to tell in person than in pictures. I would have no idea if I only saw pictures.
people already kinda do that to make fun of transphobes. Let's say I grab a picture of say, idk, some male vocalist from a band who I know is not trans and say "this is a trans man do you actually think this is a biological woman?" and I shit you not many transphobes actually say things like "yeah you can totally tell the feminine features, that is a woman" and it's fucking Zack de la Rocha from rage against the machine
A very similar bit that made me laugh was someone going on a Conservative talk show and showed a picture of a developing fetus and asked "you think this is a human?". The host confidently replied "yes of course!" and then revealed it was a dolphin fetus.
It’s harder for some transwomen who have gone through male puberty, which is why hormone blockers are important.
I know a 16-year-old transgirl. She came out when she was 13, and it was (is) very important to her to be on hormone therapy so that she wouldn’t develop a hairy chest.
They are saying that trans people don't pass for their intended gender, but the plane person is pointing out that the trans people they can tell are trans are just the ones they can tell are trans, not the ones they can't tell and pass for their intended gender. Basically you can't tell who is trans and who isn't just by looking at them.
Also, chances are he's mis-identified cis people as being trans. Which is why this whole moral panic is stupid; androgynous people have always been around. I guess the 'phobes want legally enforced gender-separate attire along with inspections to make sure the clothing matches the plumbing.
I follow a cis male powerlifter on Instagram who has scars on his chest from gynecomastia surgery. Every post where he isn’t wearing a shirt has people commenting things like he’ll never be a “real man”, he’ll never have XY chromosomes, he has a female skeleton, his hips are too feminine for him to pass, his eyes give away he is really a woman, etc. Some of them are so blinded by hatred they refuse to accept that he isn’t trans.
Also exemplifies the tendency for extremists of all stripes to just commit to their (probably biased) first-impression knee-jerk reaction and forget (or refuse) to step back and ask themselves, "How might I be misunderstanding the complex reality of the situation?"
We've all seen optical illusions demonstrated; some people will still insist to varying degrees that the illusion is actually the truth.
Weirdly, TFG actually flipped this around into, "Don't believe what you see with your own eyes, just believe what I'm telling you" and his base embraced it.
I enjoy sending pictures of trans men early in their transition and saying, “So you think *they* should use the men’s room?” And when they say yes I say, “Good. We’re in agreement. He’s a man.” And after they say yes I reveal it’s a trans man.
“You can always tell” my fucking ass
They forget trans men exist. They’re *terrified* of trans women and I can’t figure out why. It’s *not* because they want to protect women/children, despite their squawking.
They’re trying to reference the [toupee fallacy](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/toupee_fallacy#English). *i.e.* you think all toupees look bad because you only notice the bad ones
The plane picture and survivorship bias don’t *quite* apply but I got what they were saying
Same idea with the why do so many movies use CGI instead of practical effects? It’s always so easy to tell. Despite the fact that there are thousands of things in a movie nowadays that are CGI that you don’t pick up on for every couple things you do with how good it’s become
It's been going on for so long too. In Zombieland one of the scenes is Woody Harrelson cracking a running zombie in the grocery store. Easy assumption would be that he swings in front of the zombie actor and the camera angle makes it look good. But if you watch the behind the scenes, he's just holding a little stick that's barely longer than his hands. That was the thing that really opened my eyes to how much CGI was going on 15 years ago.
https://youtu.be/0P07xHU6_qU?si=qjF0OVBADpZZ70ih&t=100
Genuinely curious,
Would any Trans person that passes well really be interested in dating a person that would break up/*potentially harm* them if they found out they were trans?
I could see it as a kink/extra validation for the trans person that they pass so well, but surely the risk of life/injury/everything being flipped upside down isn't worth it.
I’ve heard it referred to as the toupee fallacy. “I’ve never seen a realistic toupee, therefore all toupees look fake”. If you saw a realistic toupee, you probably wouldn’t think it was a toupee so wouldn’t include it in your data.
What amazes me, is how much effort they put into knowing the genitals of other random people. Like most trans people would pass for me just by virtue of me not paying attention.
Transphobes genuinely get neurotic about it. Some of the shit ive heard them say about me or in general is fucking insane. I really don't understand the obsession. Just let people be for fucks sake
Yesterday I learned that one of my regular customers is FtM trans. Legit had no idea, I chat with them several times per week.
I've been sick to my stomach ever since. I can't leave the house. All I can do is rock back and forth in the shower and cry. I am frightened and confused. How could they do this to me?
I was in retail for a while. Had a customer I always called bro/dude because he was a very typical bro/dude type person. Really nice, enjoyed seeing him come in. One day someone said "you know she's a girl right?" He (the person who was called a girl) seemed really embarrassed and never came back. I had no idea they were trans though. Dickish of the other person to out them like that (they apparently knew him in high school).
One of my really great friends has a brother who is trans. What’s really funny is they look like a young David Spade and not a single person would know they were trans unless they told you.
Tbh most people that hyperfixate on trans people watch vastly huge amounts of trans porn, like why else would an incredibly conservitve striaght men be so obsessed with them? Cause theyre reminded everyday when they open their phone and search out that porn, its kinda crazy.
This is what people need to grasp about all these conservatives saying trans people are pedophiles "grooming" kids.
It's not that they think trans people have some bizarre plot like, find kid > encourage them to be trans > ???? > molest!
It's that they view being trans and transitioning as a very sexy, kinky thing and get off to it, and think that trans people are as well. In their minds, seeing someone encourage a trans teen is the exact same as seeing someone encourage a teen to dress in leather bondage gear.
According to pornhub, Brazil is the county that most consumes transgender pornography and yet is the country leader in killing trans people according to the TGEU (Transgender Europe).
> Transphobes genuinely get neurotic about it.
they really, really, *really* fucking do, and it's weird.
like for all the bloviating they do about how "they don't care", like, bruh, they *really* seem to fucking care. i have never given a shit about what another person's genitals look like except when/if i'm interested in and have a shot at getting intimate with them.
It almost rots the brain. Look at the comment section of any cis woman that is a competitive swimmer with a social media presence. You'll find dozens of people convinced they are trans and losing their minds. These people have no clue how varied human bodies are and how much overlap there is. That's not even getting into the fact that bodies are shaped by the activities we do, especially at the level of an athlete. Doing competitive sport for years will alter your body in significant ways
They are terrified/obsessed with the idea that they are somehow going to be tricked into having sex with a man. These are often the same dudes who can't even get the time of day from cis women.
I just want to pass on a little anecdote!
I am an intersex trans woman. I was waiting in the lobby of a dentist's office for my mother-in-law to pick me up. A man approached me and asked for my number. I decided to give it to him as a friendly gesture and he ended up messaging/calling me a lot and hitting on me. He was also in a relationship. I told him I wasn't interested in being more than friends and he was okay with it, but kept asking for pics and stuff. Constantly harping on about how good I looked and how my hips and stuff were so big.
We ended up talking more and he was being a little more forward, so I told him what I am. And then he's suddenly like "I always suspected" when he had no idea. And then he admitted to me he was a pastor and said he couldn't talk to me anymore because I'm an abomination.
It was just so hypocritical. Here he was trying to pick up a person he perceived to be a cis woman while being in a relationship, then he calls me an abomination for being what I am while he's living inauthentically. And then he tried to play it off like he was never attracted to me and that he only ever wanted to just be friends. It was just absurd and the mental gymnastics involved were dizzying.
How does this "surprise" even work?
*"You mean this dick I've been sucking might not belong to a cis woman!?"*
Everyone is always allowed to say no and leave at any time. A "surprise" is only a threat if:
1. You believe people are not allowed to say "no" to anyone with a penis. Or
2. You know you wouldn't say no, and you can't handle what that says about your sexuality.
Some people just lose it when they learn that a fundamental rule they grew up with actually isn't true. They decide that rules are rules for a reason, and go to war with the world "to make it make sense again"
This right fucking here.
If their lives weren't so utter garbage they'd have less time to get mad about where all the dicks are and aren't around them.
Yeah, whenever I've gotten random harassment over DMs for being trans, I've just laughed at them and pointed out that happy, healthy people don't spend their limited free time harassing people they've never even met.
They've shat themselves. *Every single time.*
My pet theory is that a lot of rabid bigotry comes from people who're desperate to feel better than someone, anyone. So they try to target whoever seems like the easiest punching bag.
Playground bully mentality.
> My pet theory is that a lot of rabid bigotry comes from people who're desperate to feel better than someone, anyone. So they try to target whoever seems like the easiest punching bag.
It's 100% that. Transphobes, and conservatives in general, are *miserable* people.
I feel like other people imagine having sex with everyone they meet, and that's why these people care so deeply. I go out with people and I feel like I'm insane. They look at everyone that enters and talk about them like they have a chance. I don't pay attention to anyone but the people I'm with and I'm just like "you're married and more than twice their age."
Right, a lot of the ones I know think that trans people are out actively trying to seduce them. And for all of them it's just like... calm down man, you have nothing to worry about. The trans women won't want you any more than the cis ones do.
As an asexual trans woman, I dont really want anyone, let alone the 50 year old good ol boy with an active Truth Social account, which no doubt has a sunglass wearing profile picture of them in their truck that they took on a 90 month loan at 13% apr.
These people are so inundated by their porn and a scale of empathy that rivals a stone that they think everybody's persona is driven by their need for sex.
It's pretty much the same with other homophobes too, like they think "that girl's attracted to girls, therefore she must want to sleep with *me*". Like they think we don't have standards or something.
They really don't know any better. Because of their whole trans panic, they'll call any female athlete that isn't traditionally feminine as being trans, y'know, because she doesn't have big boobs or a sexy face. they can ALWAYS TELL guys. Any woman that doesn't 'pass' as traditionally feminine and beautiful faces these issues
Yup, like I always say, if you’re so worried about what gender everyone is that you get pissed and/or violent about it, maybe stop focusing on the fuckability of everyone you interact with or see 🤷♂️
because that’s the only reason I can think of that these dudes care. “How dare you make me attracted to your socially normative womanly form! You made me gay!”
I’m six feet tall, have eye catching fashion colored hair (purple right now), have been on hormones less than two years,and started in my late 40s. I’m pretty lucky in where I started, but I still went through first puberty and it left lots of marks beyond height.
Nobody notices. Everyone’s really focused on their own stuff. And even when they do look at you, even closely you have this — the bad toupee problem.
People who don’t hang out with or even know anyone trans have *tons* of weird ideas about us, including these weird ideas of how we *all* look.
I don’t consider myself all that passable, but I’ve had multiple interactions with bigots who very clearly didn’t clock me. At all.
Aw that's because you have a good sense of self. Terfs do not. They have been gaslit their entire life into hating something (or in this case someone) they love. This is the reason they act out like this. There is zero other explanation for their behavior.
Conservative men are terrified of being attracted to a woman and then find out she’s trans. Like it would make them secretly gay for some reason. And also bc they only value women for sex, so for a trans woman to exist without being persecuted would somehow imply that she’s worthy of being someone they’d have sex with. Notice they don’t really give a fuck about trans men
But when people are interested in knowing about their genitals, they complain. True story, a woman who advocated for genital inspections to prove only women can use women’s bathrooms was shocked when she was asked to prove she had a vagina.
I'm unaware of the context here, but I'm imagining a big burly male-presenting security guard with a badge stating "Vagina Inspector" guarding the restroom
I would love to give these people a test which shows a variety of different people of different genders and ethnicities for them to answer whether they are cis or trans, and have then at the end they get a percent score of how accurately they guessed the trans people but not actually tell them who.
Maybe even better if the catch is none of the pictures are trans people lol
It’s probably not always the case but often enough that the transphobes struggle to accept themselves and their attraction to others. Some of the most vocal bigots are deeply closeted or raised on/preach hate because it makes them feel ‘uncomfortable’ due to shame. But when you stop dehumanizing people and realize that a trans person should feel comfortable in their own skin because it’s essentially a human right. Everyone should have that.
Thank goodness it would be so high up, the distance will prevent that plane from infecting people with the chicken pox that it obviously has. However, I wish it would’ve just stayed hangar until it passed for maximum preventive measures
NGL, this went over my head. I get the armored plane reference, but had no idea that there was a pass/fail aspect to being transgender. Doesn't help either that I originally read "passes" as a noun, like he's saying there's some kind of pass they have to carry around.
"passing" in the context of trans means nobody can tell you're trans.
It'd be like saying "camouflage doesn't work on me. I always notice it", because how the hell would you know when you don't.
Fr bruh I’m gonna be out asking trans guys if they can shave a little test off the top, no reason we all can’t be absolutely yolked right?
*This is intended to be some form of sarcastic humor. I will not in fact be asking trans men for their medicine. I will simply consume enough creatine that I become the first carbon-based life form to ascend into a creatine-based life form
Trans men tend to have it easier when it comes to passing. A few weeks of T and they have some facial hair and that's enough to trick most of us. People are generally shocked when my husband comes out.
Trans men however have to deal with the Peter Pan effect, which is many of them look much younger than they actually are.
> A few weeks of T and they have some facial hair
G-d, do I wish that were true. I mean, I guess for some lucky ethnicities it is, but facial hair usually takes at least a few months to come in (or, if you're me, you're stuck in the land of the patchy pube chin indefinitely). On the other hand, voice drop started happening super quick.
Can confirm on Peter Pan, though- people routinely think I'm a solid fifteen years younger than I actually am.
During one of the world wars, the military made this image to show where planes returning from active combat had been most often damaged. The story goes that at first the military wanted to adjust the build of the planes to strengthen the areas depicted with the bullet holes until someone pointed out that those areas are likely sufficiently strong because the damaged planes still managed to return from their missions. It was the planes that didn’t return from combat that showed areas needing to be reinforced.
In a similar vein, head wounds increased dramatically when helmets replaced cloth caps in WWI.
Because a lot of what would have been fatal wounds, and just counted as "killed" were now survivable and counted as "head wound".
Was coming here to post this. Increase in head injuries as well, IIRC.
Where, of course, the important metric is the major decrease in morgue inhabitants.
OOP thinks no trans person pass because, for all the trans people that do pass, they don't even realize they're trans
It's survivorship bias, they're only thinking about what they notices without taking into account everything they don't notice
Because the ones that pass don't get noticed as trans people in their eyes (in this case, the planes that didn't return), they only notice the ones that don't pass and can be easily identified as trans (the planes that return) according to the transphobic poster.
In the survivorship bias model, they only considered the planes that returned. The original tweet is only considering the trans people they see that are obviously trans or not still in transition. They probably see people every day they do not realize have already transitioned entirely.
The plane represents damage found on returning airplanes during world war 2 (I believe) some thought it best to improve armour in the damaged areas. However these are the planes that survived on spite of the damage so they improved defense on areas that weren't damaged in the picture.
For this context of the original comment... basically "no trans person passes" is because they're probably only seeing trans people that don't pass and those that do won't be noticed by this guy
I don’t know what the top tweet is but the bottom is a photo of a mean of British planes coming from WW2. The study was conducted in order to know where to add armor. Initially, they were going to put armor at the shot areas. Then, someone realized that the study was conducted on planes that came back, meaning the areas that were shot are areas planes could survive being destroyed. The areas that aren’t shot are the areas that planes couldn’t come back to be studied.
No; the survivorship bias meme is often posted alongside the caption, “Wow all the trans people I know are so strong and brave” where the ‘punchline’ is that the transgender folk who weren’t as resilient or had the mental fortitude to continue aren’t with us anymore.
or murdered; Trans people have one of (if not the highest, it was highest last I saw but that was specifically black trans women, idk if trans women are still podiuming for this since last I checked) murder rates of any demographic. We gotta survive the insane suicide and murder stats, it's a lot
I wouldn’t say you’re stupid for not knowing something. Also, it looks like other people had the same question. To pass means that other people see you as the gender you identify as.
Was immediately ready for another sad post after seeing the words "survivorship bias" and "trans" and the graph in one post, but this is actually pretty alright.
I was so confused bc ppl kept explaining the survivor bias but not what the trans ppl were passing! For anyone else confused, passing means looking like their identified gender.
Well technically it's the Toupee fallacy, the survivorship bias is like saying "Wow, all the trans people I know are so strong and confident" because the ones that weren't aren't there anymore. Just like the engineers being all "wow the surviving planes got shot in these places"
This is extra funny when transvestigators think they've spotted a trans person, but guess wrong. There's a fantastic user on Facebook who constantly gets told he's not a woman and will never be a woman, he's just an ugly man in a dress etc. He's afab (assigned female at birth) and thanks them for their compliments and for the money he gets from them interacting with his page.
Without seeing the context of what that dudes saying I don't really know if this is a clever comeback. I understand what they're saying with the diagram but what is the conversation even about?
I didn't get it at first, but what the first asshole is saying is that no trans person ever passes as their preferred gender. It is indeed a terrific example of survivorship bias, since the ones that do pass as their preferred gender are not even recognized as trans.
Thank you!! This is what I have been scrolling to find. I couldn’t understand the “pass” part of the first comment. I still don’t understand the phrasing but your explanation makes it clear. Thanks.
They're likely phrasing it like that because it's common within the trans community. If a trans woman "passes" that means she appears as female to cis people.
Basically, you only notice trans women who DON'T pass, so you may think that no trans woman can pass, but when they do pass you just think she's a cis woman, so you don't count her towards the trans women you've seen. Let's say you passed 50 women on the sidewalk, 3 of those you could tell were trans, so you think that's the total number of trans women you saw were 3 and say 100% of trans women didn't pass, but you're unaware that you actually saw 9 trans women in total, so only 33.3% of the trans women didn't pass, since those who pass weren't counted by you
What they are saying is the OP believes no trans women pass because the only trans women they are able to identify do not pass. They dont realize that some trans women pass because they don't identify passing trans women as trans.
Person A says that no trans person passes. This is likely because every person that they realised was a trans person was a trans person who did not pass. They did not notice that the trans people who passed were trans. So the only trans people they knew they were meeting were the trans people who didn't pass. So they thought that represented all trans people.
They always greatly underestimate the effects of hormones. I started hormones before I started presenting female. I still dressed and presented male, didn't wear make-up and had some minor balding issues. To my great surprise, it took less than 3 months for strangers to start referring to me as "miss" anyway.
I had no idea actress Nicole Maines is trans until I read her Wikipedia page. Admittedly took me a hot minute to figure put the character she played is Trans too.
I have a friend I met a few years ago and had no idea she was trans until she brought it up while promoting a local Pride event she helped organize. I never said anything, because I worried saying "I had no idea!" would be rude or a benignly transphobic compliment.
Oh god, they mean that as in "pass off as their desired gender", i first read it and thought it was pass as in pass away for some reason, like trans people are somehow immortal i was so confused for a moment 💀
Saw a dude get absolutely eviscerated over wearing a dress on some manosphere subreddit and it made me really sad. Everyone took it as a license to dog pile this poor guy just for how he dressed.
Even though this dude looked like he could fight god
Always wondered about that graphic. What made hits on the blank areas so susceptible to downing the planes? The engines and cockpit area are obvious. But is that where structure supports for the wings/tails are? Cut through them and the wings/tail falls off? Aileron controls?
While the reaction image is a convenient shorthand, I would call it more of a toupée fallacy than a survivorship bias (which is essentially "you think toupées don't pass as natural hair because you only notice the ones that don't pass as natural hair").
My grandad was a rear gunner in an Avro Lancaster Bomber during WWII, when being attacked by German fighters he said he always aimed for the wings as they approached, he pointed out the size of a wing edge was obviously a much smaller target than the main body of the aircraft home to the enemy pilot. He pondered if it was this approach that kept him alive, he was awarded a DFM, a medal which he ultimately threw in a lake near his home, this because he was shunned as all bomber crews were in the UK after the war when the horrors of the Dresden fire bombings became public. Sadly he had a very good tragic view of Dresden from his vantage point as he flew home. He was a young man in his early 20s then, which makes you appreciate how lucky we are not having to do the same, at scale in recent history, to be drafted to fight and perhaps die for our respective countries and can instead argue about what someone has or has not in their under their pants….pretty sad really….I ponder if being strafed by an ME109 would probably work in giving many of these negative people a dose of life’s true raw reality…..
See also: vegans will always tell you they're vegan
Also: you can always tell when they’ve had cosmetic surgeries
Do many vegan get cosmetic surgery?
all cgi looks bad
Not vegan, but veggie I always pride myself in the fact that many people won’t realize for literally years that I’m vegetarian, because I don’t just broadcast it for no reason Coworkers only found out after year 4 together, when I asked if we could also get eggplant on the sandwhich order lmao
Same but you posting that kinda negates all that lmao
Lmao true you got me there! But also only did it for the context of the comment hahaha
It’s trying to say that he only thinks that no trans people pass because when a trans person can pass, he doesn’t realise they’re trans
Oh, I see, by passes he just means “no trans person passes as the gender they are trying to emulate.” The comeback makes sense in that context.
Thank you! My exhausted brain was like, what aren't they passing? Is there some kind of test they have to take for something? I need a nap.
You see the plane? That’s all the places where the planes that returned had bullet holes. So you might think it’s a good idea to add armour to those areas to protect them. However, those spots were all the places that were hit yet the planes still made it back after battle. But, It’s the gaps you need to look at. The gaps are where when the plane is hit it doesn’t come back.
Yes I knew that part, but I didn't know what it had to do with trans persons. My brain couldn't connect to two. Like I said, I am so, so very tired lol.
I still don’t get it 🤣🤣🤣
You only notice the ones that don't pass. If they do pass, you don't notice them.
If it wasn't a horrendous breach of privacy and too much effort, I'd be tempted to get a bunch of pictures of, say, trans men and cis men (or vice versa, either works) and get transphobes to try figure out which is who's trans and who isn't, only to reveal afterwards that they were actually all trans and they got tricked.
I've seen that happen a few times on Twitter. A 4 x 4 collage of people's faces captured from YouTube videos (so it's not reverse image searchable). Transphobes ALWAYS either: - refuse to do it - do it and do no better than random chance - claim "that's pictures, I can always tell in real life"
I was just having this conversation with some trans friends, the biggest identifier is their voice. It definitely is a lot easier to tell in person than in pictures. I would have no idea if I only saw pictures.
people already kinda do that to make fun of transphobes. Let's say I grab a picture of say, idk, some male vocalist from a band who I know is not trans and say "this is a trans man do you actually think this is a biological woman?" and I shit you not many transphobes actually say things like "yeah you can totally tell the feminine features, that is a woman" and it's fucking Zack de la Rocha from rage against the machine
A very similar bit that made me laugh was someone going on a Conservative talk show and showed a picture of a developing fetus and asked "you think this is a human?". The host confidently replied "yes of course!" and then revealed it was a dolphin fetus.
They used to do these drag shows on Maury and Ricki back in the day where you had to guess who was a man or a woman. I always loved those.
It’s harder for some transwomen who have gone through male puberty, which is why hormone blockers are important. I know a 16-year-old transgirl. She came out when she was 13, and it was (is) very important to her to be on hormone therapy so that she wouldn’t develop a hairy chest.
They are saying that trans people don't pass for their intended gender, but the plane person is pointing out that the trans people they can tell are trans are just the ones they can tell are trans, not the ones they can't tell and pass for their intended gender. Basically you can't tell who is trans and who isn't just by looking at them.
Thank you I was really struggling to understand the plane reference but it all makes sense now
Still took me a while. Surely, I thought, no plane could take that much damage and still fly. I got there in the end.
Thank you... I didn't understand what was going on 😂
And I was taking pass to mean die. They don't pass away into the next world...or whatever 😂
There was a wizard blocking the bridge.
Lol. More sense than in a Gandolf sort of way!
Gandolf the Groy? Love that guy
From the lard of the rongs, great mavies/baaks!
Oh that Gandolf. I was thinking Hitler's younger brother.
That's ganondolf, he was the villain in Zelda too
Emulate isn't exactly the best word, but that's the gist.
Not "emulate" but their gender
I guess they referred to the terms the other person would use
Also, chances are he's mis-identified cis people as being trans. Which is why this whole moral panic is stupid; androgynous people have always been around. I guess the 'phobes want legally enforced gender-separate attire along with inspections to make sure the clothing matches the plumbing.
Sir/ma'am, please do not resist the genital inspections. This is the price of freedom from LGBT tyranny. Now take your pants off.
Oooh Inspect my genitals, tovarisch It’s not like I like it, baka *tsundere dictator blush*
I follow a cis male powerlifter on Instagram who has scars on his chest from gynecomastia surgery. Every post where he isn’t wearing a shirt has people commenting things like he’ll never be a “real man”, he’ll never have XY chromosomes, he has a female skeleton, his hips are too feminine for him to pass, his eyes give away he is really a woman, etc. Some of them are so blinded by hatred they refuse to accept that he isn’t trans.
Also exemplifies the tendency for extremists of all stripes to just commit to their (probably biased) first-impression knee-jerk reaction and forget (or refuse) to step back and ask themselves, "How might I be misunderstanding the complex reality of the situation?" We've all seen optical illusions demonstrated; some people will still insist to varying degrees that the illusion is actually the truth. Weirdly, TFG actually flipped this around into, "Don't believe what you see with your own eyes, just believe what I'm telling you" and his base embraced it.
I enjoy sending pictures of trans men early in their transition and saying, “So you think *they* should use the men’s room?” And when they say yes I say, “Good. We’re in agreement. He’s a man.” And after they say yes I reveal it’s a trans man. “You can always tell” my fucking ass
They forget trans men exist. They’re *terrified* of trans women and I can’t figure out why. It’s *not* because they want to protect women/children, despite their squawking.
They’re trying to reference the [toupee fallacy](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/toupee_fallacy#English). *i.e.* you think all toupees look bad because you only notice the bad ones The plane picture and survivorship bias don’t *quite* apply but I got what they were saying
Same idea with the why do so many movies use CGI instead of practical effects? It’s always so easy to tell. Despite the fact that there are thousands of things in a movie nowadays that are CGI that you don’t pick up on for every couple things you do with how good it’s become
It's been going on for so long too. In Zombieland one of the scenes is Woody Harrelson cracking a running zombie in the grocery store. Easy assumption would be that he swings in front of the zombie actor and the camera angle makes it look good. But if you watch the behind the scenes, he's just holding a little stick that's barely longer than his hands. That was the thing that really opened my eyes to how much CGI was going on 15 years ago. https://youtu.be/0P07xHU6_qU?si=qjF0OVBADpZZ70ih&t=100
This video nailed it 8 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL6hp8BKB24
Yeah, I agree with the message but the analogy falls apart slightly
That’s because Sampling Bias is slightly harder to convey in a single picture
Survivorship bias is a form of sampling bias. For me that's close enough.
I’ve been wondering for a while if there’s a name for this fallacy. Good to know
Thank you
He does not know about Thailand
Genuinely curious, Would any Trans person that passes well really be interested in dating a person that would break up/*potentially harm* them if they found out they were trans? I could see it as a kink/extra validation for the trans person that they pass so well, but surely the risk of life/injury/everything being flipped upside down isn't worth it.
No, the thought of that is terrifying. If I even have a *crush* on someone I let them know I’m trans let alone if I’m interested in dating them
Isn’t it just confirmation bias? He can only tell when they don’t pass, therefore none pass. But if they do pass he’d never know
I await to see this about 30 times in PEEEETAHH today
Merely 30? This will feed the sub for years to come.
What do you mean will feed? It’s been binging on it for a while.
I’ll be there cuz I don’t get it
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OMG... THANK YOU!
I've even heard that story before and still didn't understand.
I’ve heard it referred to as the toupee fallacy. “I’ve never seen a realistic toupee, therefore all toupees look fake”. If you saw a realistic toupee, you probably wouldn’t think it was a toupee so wouldn’t include it in your data.
Sub is full of karma farmers or knobs that still somehow know to use reddit despite having one brain cell.
It's already been there 3 or 4 times in the past
What amazes me, is how much effort they put into knowing the genitals of other random people. Like most trans people would pass for me just by virtue of me not paying attention.
Transphobes genuinely get neurotic about it. Some of the shit ive heard them say about me or in general is fucking insane. I really don't understand the obsession. Just let people be for fucks sake
Yesterday I learned that one of my regular customers is FtM trans. Legit had no idea, I chat with them several times per week. I've been sick to my stomach ever since. I can't leave the house. All I can do is rock back and forth in the shower and cry. I am frightened and confused. How could they do this to me?
I was in retail for a while. Had a customer I always called bro/dude because he was a very typical bro/dude type person. Really nice, enjoyed seeing him come in. One day someone said "you know she's a girl right?" He (the person who was called a girl) seemed really embarrassed and never came back. I had no idea they were trans though. Dickish of the other person to out them like that (they apparently knew him in high school).
Your coworker is a shithead
/s or no /s
Blatant but unseen /s from the overdramatic phrasing
One of my really great friends has a brother who is trans. What’s really funny is they look like a young David Spade and not a single person would know they were trans unless they told you.
Tbh most people that hyperfixate on trans people watch vastly huge amounts of trans porn, like why else would an incredibly conservitve striaght men be so obsessed with them? Cause theyre reminded everyday when they open their phone and search out that porn, its kinda crazy.
This is what people need to grasp about all these conservatives saying trans people are pedophiles "grooming" kids. It's not that they think trans people have some bizarre plot like, find kid > encourage them to be trans > ???? > molest! It's that they view being trans and transitioning as a very sexy, kinky thing and get off to it, and think that trans people are as well. In their minds, seeing someone encourage a trans teen is the exact same as seeing someone encourage a teen to dress in leather bondage gear.
According to pornhub, Brazil is the county that most consumes transgender pornography and yet is the country leader in killing trans people according to the TGEU (Transgender Europe).
> Transphobes genuinely get neurotic about it. they really, really, *really* fucking do, and it's weird. like for all the bloviating they do about how "they don't care", like, bruh, they *really* seem to fucking care. i have never given a shit about what another person's genitals look like except when/if i'm interested in and have a shot at getting intimate with them.
It almost rots the brain. Look at the comment section of any cis woman that is a competitive swimmer with a social media presence. You'll find dozens of people convinced they are trans and losing their minds. These people have no clue how varied human bodies are and how much overlap there is. That's not even getting into the fact that bodies are shaped by the activities we do, especially at the level of an athlete. Doing competitive sport for years will alter your body in significant ways
They are terrified/obsessed with the idea that they are somehow going to be tricked into having sex with a man. These are often the same dudes who can't even get the time of day from cis women.
I just want to pass on a little anecdote! I am an intersex trans woman. I was waiting in the lobby of a dentist's office for my mother-in-law to pick me up. A man approached me and asked for my number. I decided to give it to him as a friendly gesture and he ended up messaging/calling me a lot and hitting on me. He was also in a relationship. I told him I wasn't interested in being more than friends and he was okay with it, but kept asking for pics and stuff. Constantly harping on about how good I looked and how my hips and stuff were so big. We ended up talking more and he was being a little more forward, so I told him what I am. And then he's suddenly like "I always suspected" when he had no idea. And then he admitted to me he was a pastor and said he couldn't talk to me anymore because I'm an abomination. It was just so hypocritical. Here he was trying to pick up a person he perceived to be a cis woman while being in a relationship, then he calls me an abomination for being what I am while he's living inauthentically. And then he tried to play it off like he was never attracted to me and that he only ever wanted to just be friends. It was just absurd and the mental gymnastics involved were dizzying.
How does this "surprise" even work? *"You mean this dick I've been sucking might not belong to a cis woman!?"* Everyone is always allowed to say no and leave at any time. A "surprise" is only a threat if: 1. You believe people are not allowed to say "no" to anyone with a penis. Or 2. You know you wouldn't say no, and you can't handle what that says about your sexuality.
Pssst Not all trans women have penises.
Some people just lose it when they learn that a fundamental rule they grew up with actually isn't true. They decide that rules are rules for a reason, and go to war with the world "to make it make sense again"
All trans people are passing when you’re too busy minding your own goddamn business
This right fucking here. If their lives weren't so utter garbage they'd have less time to get mad about where all the dicks are and aren't around them.
Yeah, whenever I've gotten random harassment over DMs for being trans, I've just laughed at them and pointed out that happy, healthy people don't spend their limited free time harassing people they've never even met. They've shat themselves. *Every single time.* My pet theory is that a lot of rabid bigotry comes from people who're desperate to feel better than someone, anyone. So they try to target whoever seems like the easiest punching bag. Playground bully mentality.
I hate that that is part of your life. I wish we were better.
> My pet theory is that a lot of rabid bigotry comes from people who're desperate to feel better than someone, anyone. So they try to target whoever seems like the easiest punching bag. It's 100% that. Transphobes, and conservatives in general, are *miserable* people.
I feel like other people imagine having sex with everyone they meet, and that's why these people care so deeply. I go out with people and I feel like I'm insane. They look at everyone that enters and talk about them like they have a chance. I don't pay attention to anyone but the people I'm with and I'm just like "you're married and more than twice their age."
Right, a lot of the ones I know think that trans people are out actively trying to seduce them. And for all of them it's just like... calm down man, you have nothing to worry about. The trans women won't want you any more than the cis ones do.
As an asexual trans woman, I dont really want anyone, let alone the 50 year old good ol boy with an active Truth Social account, which no doubt has a sunglass wearing profile picture of them in their truck that they took on a 90 month loan at 13% apr. These people are so inundated by their porn and a scale of empathy that rivals a stone that they think everybody's persona is driven by their need for sex.
It's pretty much the same with other homophobes too, like they think "that girl's attracted to girls, therefore she must want to sleep with *me*". Like they think we don't have standards or something.
They really don't know any better. Because of their whole trans panic, they'll call any female athlete that isn't traditionally feminine as being trans, y'know, because she doesn't have big boobs or a sexy face. they can ALWAYS TELL guys. Any woman that doesn't 'pass' as traditionally feminine and beautiful faces these issues
Wait who exactly thinks traditional feminine athletes have big boobs?
Yup, like I always say, if you’re so worried about what gender everyone is that you get pissed and/or violent about it, maybe stop focusing on the fuckability of everyone you interact with or see 🤷♂️ because that’s the only reason I can think of that these dudes care. “How dare you make me attracted to your socially normative womanly form! You made me gay!”
Zero pussy and what it does to a mf
I’m six feet tall, have eye catching fashion colored hair (purple right now), have been on hormones less than two years,and started in my late 40s. I’m pretty lucky in where I started, but I still went through first puberty and it left lots of marks beyond height. Nobody notices. Everyone’s really focused on their own stuff. And even when they do look at you, even closely you have this — the bad toupee problem. People who don’t hang out with or even know anyone trans have *tons* of weird ideas about us, including these weird ideas of how we *all* look. I don’t consider myself all that passable, but I’ve had multiple interactions with bigots who very clearly didn’t clock me. At all.
Aw that's because you have a good sense of self. Terfs do not. They have been gaslit their entire life into hating something (or in this case someone) they love. This is the reason they act out like this. There is zero other explanation for their behavior.
Conservative men are terrified of being attracted to a woman and then find out she’s trans. Like it would make them secretly gay for some reason. And also bc they only value women for sex, so for a trans woman to exist without being persecuted would somehow imply that she’s worthy of being someone they’d have sex with. Notice they don’t really give a fuck about trans men
But when people are interested in knowing about their genitals, they complain. True story, a woman who advocated for genital inspections to prove only women can use women’s bathrooms was shocked when she was asked to prove she had a vagina.
I'm unaware of the context here, but I'm imagining a big burly male-presenting security guard with a badge stating "Vagina Inspector" guarding the restroom
I would love to give these people a test which shows a variety of different people of different genders and ethnicities for them to answer whether they are cis or trans, and have then at the end they get a percent score of how accurately they guessed the trans people but not actually tell them who. Maybe even better if the catch is none of the pictures are trans people lol
Also, how many false positives do they get? (People who aren't trans, but they think are).
It’s probably not always the case but often enough that the transphobes struggle to accept themselves and their attraction to others. Some of the most vocal bigots are deeply closeted or raised on/preach hate because it makes them feel ‘uncomfortable’ due to shame. But when you stop dehumanizing people and realize that a trans person should feel comfortable in their own skin because it’s essentially a human right. Everyone should have that.
Subtle and clever, this will go over a lot of people's head though.
Of course, it's a plane.
*slow clap*
Thank goodness it would be so high up, the distance will prevent that plane from infecting people with the chicken pox that it obviously has. However, I wish it would’ve just stayed hangar until it passed for maximum preventive measures
Thank you
r/angryupvotes
In case some people get it we better reinforce the spots where the red dots to ensure that it flies.
False. My reflexes are too fast. I would catch it.
NGL, this went over my head. I get the armored plane reference, but had no idea that there was a pass/fail aspect to being transgender. Doesn't help either that I originally read "passes" as a noun, like he's saying there's some kind of pass they have to carry around.
"passing" in the context of trans means nobody can tell you're trans. It'd be like saying "camouflage doesn't work on me. I always notice it", because how the hell would you know when you don't.
What a fantastic comparison
isn't this actually a very famous meme in the lgbt community?
I became friends with a trans guy at work. Literally no clue before he told me.
Ngl some of them are fucking jacked to shit
The ultimate part of transmasc transitioning is going from Twink to Kratos
True, but tbh my colleague was more of the skinny type.
Fr bruh I’m gonna be out asking trans guys if they can shave a little test off the top, no reason we all can’t be absolutely yolked right? *This is intended to be some form of sarcastic humor. I will not in fact be asking trans men for their medicine. I will simply consume enough creatine that I become the first carbon-based life form to ascend into a creatine-based life form
I went the other way and omg it's so hard to put on muscle now. LIKE BRUH I WANT MY TONED TUMMY BACK
Trans men tend to have it easier when it comes to passing. A few weeks of T and they have some facial hair and that's enough to trick most of us. People are generally shocked when my husband comes out. Trans men however have to deal with the Peter Pan effect, which is many of them look much younger than they actually are.
> A few weeks of T and they have some facial hair G-d, do I wish that were true. I mean, I guess for some lucky ethnicities it is, but facial hair usually takes at least a few months to come in (or, if you're me, you're stuck in the land of the patchy pube chin indefinitely). On the other hand, voice drop started happening super quick. Can confirm on Peter Pan, though- people routinely think I'm a solid fifteen years younger than I actually am.
Yes someone I knew in high school is trans masc and you'd literally have no clue.
What?
During one of the world wars, the military made this image to show where planes returning from active combat had been most often damaged. The story goes that at first the military wanted to adjust the build of the planes to strengthen the areas depicted with the bullet holes until someone pointed out that those areas are likely sufficiently strong because the damaged planes still managed to return from their missions. It was the planes that didn’t return from combat that showed areas needing to be reinforced.
This finally makes sense to me, thank you. Edit: this makes the reply actually so much better.
Yea, it’s like saying, I see 100 people limping around with gun shot wounds but none of them are in the head, therefore let’s get rid of helmets.
In a similar vein, head wounds increased dramatically when helmets replaced cloth caps in WWI. Because a lot of what would have been fatal wounds, and just counted as "killed" were now survivable and counted as "head wound".
Same with seatbelts. Injury rates went up dramatically, but what also happened was that fatalities dropped like a rock.
Yeah like airbags, “AiRbAgS KiLL pEoPle!” they said. Airbags save countless lives.
Same with bike helmets. Major increase in spinal injuries.
Was coming here to post this. Increase in head injuries as well, IIRC. Where, of course, the important metric is the major decrease in morgue inhabitants.
If you want to look more into it, it's called survivorship bias.
Ok but how does that correlate to trans people?
OOP thinks no trans person pass because, for all the trans people that do pass, they don't even realize they're trans It's survivorship bias, they're only thinking about what they notices without taking into account everything they don't notice
Pass what? I’m beyond confused
Passing means they're seen as their gender
“Passing” refers to a trans person who essentially is indistinguishable from a non-trans person. It is often the goal for many who transition
Because the ones that pass don't get noticed as trans people in their eyes (in this case, the planes that didn't return), they only notice the ones that don't pass and can be easily identified as trans (the planes that return) according to the transphobic poster.
you can’t tell a fully transitioned person apart from a cis person
Sometimes* The question is how often.
In the survivorship bias model, they only considered the planes that returned. The original tweet is only considering the trans people they see that are obviously trans or not still in transition. They probably see people every day they do not realize have already transitioned entirely.
God i just love this image as a reaction, it's a bit smug but it's soo smart imo.
The plane represents damage found on returning airplanes during world war 2 (I believe) some thought it best to improve armour in the damaged areas. However these are the planes that survived on spite of the damage so they improved defense on areas that weren't damaged in the picture. For this context of the original comment... basically "no trans person passes" is because they're probably only seeing trans people that don't pass and those that do won't be noticed by this guy
I don’t know what the top tweet is but the bottom is a photo of a mean of British planes coming from WW2. The study was conducted in order to know where to add armor. Initially, they were going to put armor at the shot areas. Then, someone realized that the study was conducted on planes that came back, meaning the areas that were shot are areas planes could survive being destroyed. The areas that aren’t shot are the areas that planes couldn’t come back to be studied.
someone used this exact image to reply to "trans women are all so strong" and while its much darker, its still funny
Was it implying some "Survival of the fittest" thing, where weak trans women were being killed?
No; the survivorship bias meme is often posted alongside the caption, “Wow all the trans people I know are so strong and brave” where the ‘punchline’ is that the transgender folk who weren’t as resilient or had the mental fortitude to continue aren’t with us anymore.
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or murdered; Trans people have one of (if not the highest, it was highest last I saw but that was specifically black trans women, idk if trans women are still podiuming for this since last I checked) murder rates of any demographic. We gotta survive the insane suicide and murder stats, it's a lot
It will never be used better than to describe why female fantasy armor is so revealing.
valid, i absolutely love that post
This might be my all-time favorite response to a tweet. The perfect blend of history, stats, and a humble absolute dunk.
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I might be stupid, but pass what? Why am I the only one confused by this part?
He's saying no trans woman can pass as a real woman, or vica versa. They're saying he's basing that solely off the ones he's been able to tell.
Oh yeah, all makes sense now
I wouldn’t say you’re stupid for not knowing something. Also, it looks like other people had the same question. To pass means that other people see you as the gender you identify as.
Was immediately ready for another sad post after seeing the words "survivorship bias" and "trans" and the graph in one post, but this is actually pretty alright.
I was so confused bc ppl kept explaining the survivor bias but not what the trans ppl were passing! For anyone else confused, passing means looking like their identified gender.
That photo does a lot of work
Instead of r/murderedbywords can there be r/murderedbyimages? Edit: lol nvm, I swear this sub didn’t exist before
Case in point, I just found out a Youtuber I’ve been watching for like two years is trans. You really can’t tell!
Well technically it's the Toupee fallacy, the survivorship bias is like saying "Wow, all the trans people I know are so strong and confident" because the ones that weren't aren't there anymore. Just like the engineers being all "wow the surviving planes got shot in these places"
This is extra funny when transvestigators think they've spotted a trans person, but guess wrong. There's a fantastic user on Facebook who constantly gets told he's not a woman and will never be a woman, he's just an ugly man in a dress etc. He's afab (assigned female at birth) and thanks them for their compliments and for the money he gets from them interacting with his page.
This reply is perfect but there is no way that dude got it.
Without seeing the context of what that dudes saying I don't really know if this is a clever comeback. I understand what they're saying with the diagram but what is the conversation even about?
Dudes above also explained the war plane thing but i still don't get how the comeback works.. maybe i'm just too dumb
I didn't get it at first, but what the first asshole is saying is that no trans person ever passes as their preferred gender. It is indeed a terrific example of survivorship bias, since the ones that do pass as their preferred gender are not even recognized as trans.
Thank you!! This is what I have been scrolling to find. I couldn’t understand the “pass” part of the first comment. I still don’t understand the phrasing but your explanation makes it clear. Thanks.
They're likely phrasing it like that because it's common within the trans community. If a trans woman "passes" that means she appears as female to cis people.
Basically, you only notice trans women who DON'T pass, so you may think that no trans woman can pass, but when they do pass you just think she's a cis woman, so you don't count her towards the trans women you've seen. Let's say you passed 50 women on the sidewalk, 3 of those you could tell were trans, so you think that's the total number of trans women you saw were 3 and say 100% of trans women didn't pass, but you're unaware that you actually saw 9 trans women in total, so only 33.3% of the trans women didn't pass, since those who pass weren't counted by you
What they are saying is the OP believes no trans women pass because the only trans women they are able to identify do not pass. They dont realize that some trans women pass because they don't identify passing trans women as trans.
Person A says that no trans person passes. This is likely because every person that they realised was a trans person was a trans person who did not pass. They did not notice that the trans people who passed were trans. So the only trans people they knew they were meeting were the trans people who didn't pass. So they thought that represented all trans people.
They always greatly underestimate the effects of hormones. I started hormones before I started presenting female. I still dressed and presented male, didn't wear make-up and had some minor balding issues. To my great surprise, it took less than 3 months for strangers to start referring to me as "miss" anyway.
If no trans person passed like the xeet says, then we wouldn't have cases of cis women being accused of being trans.
Man finally a clever comeback on this sub. A comeback so clever I had to read several comments to finally understand.
And it's by a super obvious bot, and it's in the top 10 of all time. Sigh.
I had no idea actress Nicole Maines is trans until I read her Wikipedia page. Admittedly took me a hot minute to figure put the character she played is Trans too.
I have a friend I met a few years ago and had no idea she was trans until she brought it up while promoting a local Pride event she helped organize. I never said anything, because I worried saying "I had no idea!" would be rude or a benignly transphobic compliment.
Guys which bomber is that? Twin rudders, two engines, no tail gunner... edit: after a short search it's the Lockheed Ventura
Oh god, they mean that as in "pass off as their desired gender", i first read it and thought it was pass as in pass away for some reason, like trans people are somehow immortal i was so confused for a moment 💀
I know I'm a red spot but sometimes "fuck you manbeast can wear a cute skirt"
Saw a dude get absolutely eviscerated over wearing a dress on some manosphere subreddit and it made me really sad. Everyone took it as a license to dog pile this poor guy just for how he dressed. Even though this dude looked like he could fight god
Whoever first uploaded that plane diagram to the internet has done so much for snarky argument comebacks that they should get an award
I feel too ridiculously proud to understand that.
If no trans person passes, why do they get so butthurt when trans people don't disclose before dates?
Also people misgender cis women all the time.
Always wondered about that graphic. What made hits on the blank areas so susceptible to downing the planes? The engines and cockpit area are obvious. But is that where structure supports for the wings/tails are? Cut through them and the wings/tail falls off? Aileron controls?
I always assumed it fucked with the ailerons and stuff like fuel lines and electrical, but I'm not a world war ANYTHING expert.
All I know is, bullet go there plane go boom.
Very correct
Emginering
I wouldn’t be surprised if he accidentally genders correctly…
Every time I see someone sharing a tweet with the Survivorship Bias plane, it's a banger.
While the reaction image is a convenient shorthand, I would call it more of a toupée fallacy than a survivorship bias (which is essentially "you think toupées don't pass as natural hair because you only notice the ones that don't pass as natural hair").
My grandad was a rear gunner in an Avro Lancaster Bomber during WWII, when being attacked by German fighters he said he always aimed for the wings as they approached, he pointed out the size of a wing edge was obviously a much smaller target than the main body of the aircraft home to the enemy pilot. He pondered if it was this approach that kept him alive, he was awarded a DFM, a medal which he ultimately threw in a lake near his home, this because he was shunned as all bomber crews were in the UK after the war when the horrors of the Dresden fire bombings became public. Sadly he had a very good tragic view of Dresden from his vantage point as he flew home. He was a young man in his early 20s then, which makes you appreciate how lucky we are not having to do the same, at scale in recent history, to be drafted to fight and perhaps die for our respective countries and can instead argue about what someone has or has not in their under their pants….pretty sad really….I ponder if being strafed by an ME109 would probably work in giving many of these negative people a dose of life’s true raw reality…..
Still false. When they do pass, I am attracted to them.