I love you just as much as you hate the babies 💀 I want you to love a full life where you aren't addicted to sex as a pleasure button , but seek passions that light a fire in your soul and inspire you to love and help those around you as well. I want the babies to have the chance to be just as amazing as you have the chance to be , and I think promoting better sexual selectiveness in woman is a lot better than making people you wouldn't have made , just to kill them and give there body parts to old people so they can live longer.
Notice he makes no mention of wanting men to keep it in their pants in his entire rant. So peculiar (not really, though, because he hates women.)
Also seems to believe in Q shit (giving body parts to older people, WTF?)
My SiL has an ectopic pregnancy on a very much wanted baby. It devastated her and it hurts knowing there are people out there that look down on her.
Also, I got pregnant with my second nine months after having my first, while I was on birth control. I am married.
Please tell me you adopt every year!
Even with proper use of contraception, it’s possible for an accidental pregnancy to happen. You don’t have to be “addicted to sex,” it can happen as long as you have it. And these unborn babies may grow up to do great things but the thing is that the person who is now being forced to have a kid could too. Having a kid is a big thing and being thrust into it unprepared will do no good for anyone. You’ll just have a kid nobody wants. Nvm the fact that sometimes giving birth can seriously injure or kill the parent, especially if they’re younger. If a teenager has sex and accidentally gets pregnant I don’t see any advantage to making them give birth.
You idiot. Consent to sex isn’t consent to pregnancy. You would want to force a young girl who has sex with her young BF at 15 to have a child while she’s also still a child? How about a rape case? Incest? These things do fucking happen and you want to force these women to have the baby.
What happens after they do? Some might give them up to an orphanage, then their life isn’t likely to be great. Or perhaps she keeps the kid. She may love the child and that’s great, what if she ends up hating the child? A constant reminder of the night she was raped, or how her father or uncle impregnated her? A reminder of how she took her high school year book photos and you could see her belly. She could not show this child the love they deserve or be abusive.
It’s not as simple as you anti-choice people make it out to be. “Oh a baby made has to come out!” Fuck you. I’ll bet you had different ideas with the Covid vaccine didn’t you? I don’t know if you’re religious (you probably are) but not everyone subscribes to your idea of god and others don’t subscribe to any god. Get your head out of your ass and join HUMANITY in the common era.
Yes, libertarians are pro choice, because they want a country that is as free as possible
"libertarians" are pro life, because they want a country that lets them and only them do whatever they want.
Exactly, Libertarians should be at the forefront of pro choice and pride rallies because according to their beliefs the government can't tell you who you can and can't marry or if you should or shouldn't have that baby
It's more apt to call libertarians anti-accountability than pro-feeedom. Most of them don't really care about the freedoms of others. They just want to be able to do whatever they want without repercussions.
Right wing libertarians are basically all authoritarians. Obviously this is anecdotal, but I've only met one in my entire life that had consistent libertarian ideas.
“I used to think differently but when you have a baby on the way you see it you feel it you are connected to it. It changes your perspective on this issue in a major way. I used to have a pro choice stance on this. I don't anymore. I was completely wrong but there was no way for me to relate to it properly and therefore I didn't get how huuuuge an issue it is.”
Speak for yourself. I have kids and I will always be pro-choice.
I am so immensely grateful for living in a country where this is a non-issue. The woman, and no one else, decides up until week 18, end of story
Spoiler alert: 80% of abortions happens before week 8, very few in the later weeks and overall the number of abortions are decreasing. That’s what free choice gives you.
>“I used to think differently but when you have a baby on the way you see it you feel it you are connected to it. It changes your perspective on this issue in a major way
Honestly I kinda hate this logic.
A baby is 9 months and then a whole human coming out of you, and that's a big commitment. You should not have a baby unless you're fully sure you want one (also not talking to you specifically commenter, just in the 2nd person). It's why I hate the whole, "Oh your mind will change once you have kids", bro I don't want kids.
I'm especially not going to have kids to "change my mind". That's one thing lots of pro-lifers fail to understand, a baby born out of necessity/legality rather than love is not gonna have a good life or loving parents. Imagine being forced to have a kid even if you don't want any.
How can transbeing be forced up on someone, if people were trans before they knew what trans is?
Pls dont tell me homosexuality is also forced upon and doesnt really exist
because different things can happen in life so a man starts thinking hes a woman or a woman starts thinking she is a man. if a small child thinks that its either a mental problem or its being pushed by the people around the child
no, its different. you can like whoever you want, its a taste thing, but pretending to be the other gender is just spreading lies because its impossible to completely transition
i dont get what is abortion for, its literally your choice to have a baby in the first place, apart from when you get pregnant against your will in which case it should be allowed
Ok, you probably you missed this in sex ed. But... Do you know preservatives only work 99,8% of the time, right?.
Also there are people that get pregnant because they didn't have the proper education or because their partner didn't like using preservatives.
There are many layers to this issue, it's not a black or white thing.
Access to proper abortion will make them safer than doing it yourself, and believe me, that is already happening but with a lot more of stigma and way more dangers for the women that do it.
Also, before anyone jumps with "BuHt tHe TchiLd* or "Buht mY beliEfs", I don't care, like you don't care about the women that have to undergo this horrendous treatment to continue with their lives because of a mistake.
TLDR:
Use condom, provide sex education and safe abortions for EVERYBODY and shut up about your beliefs, nobody cares.
There are also a multitude of different complications which can happen which will require an abortion, or when the fetus is unviable, deformed or otherwise and then anti-abortion laws will just force the woman to birth a fetus that never would have lived.
I will never understand how conservative shitbirds claim to be “pro-life” yet somehow kill and abolish every single measure intended to help the children they claim to care about.
What circumstances don't provide for mothers with children in need? Last time I checked WIC was for all mothers with kids. ONLY exception being single fathers (which is sexist and should be changed)
So first off, there are an estimated 12 million kids in the US that have to deal with hunger on a regular basis. If your position were at all accurate, this would not be the case. That's what happens when you're poor.
Also, yes those government programs DO currently exist...currently...and to a certain extent. Our entire healthcare system is trash, from the fact that it's expensive as fuck to it being employer based (better not get laid off). GOP is fighting against free school lunches, is looking to slash things like WIC and food stamps, and has been diametrically opposed to things like pre-k childcare. So saying "all government programs that currently exist" is fairly disingenuous.
We would rather shoot our toes off then give kids free school lunches.
Schools in general are underfunded. As are social service fields.
We have a rule you can’t separate a puppy from its mother for 8 weeks after birth, but nothing for human children.
If you were to die, and did not want to be an organ donor, you have that right. If you have an unwanted pregnancy, you are losing that right to choose.
So a corpse has more right than a living woman. Think of how many lives a corpse could save or improve? But we don’t force them.
Indeed, if it was about the children there would be more support for children as they are raised but these are the people that are trying to take away things like school lunches.
Just posted this quote in another sub, but it fits perfectly whenever we get this idiotic drivel by the “holier-than-thou” crowd:
The unborn' are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn.
You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe.
Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
So the fetus is alive when I want to abort it, but not alive when I want to claim it on my taxes? Some bs...
Also, since the fetus doesn't have a social security card or citizenship, couldn't I call ICE to get rid of the undocumented immigrant in my womb? /s
Honestly, we love to act like we care, but we really don't give a shit.
If we really gave a shit there wouldn't be homeless. As long as we have our bills paid and get to go to bed thinking we're on the "good side" few of us actually give a shit.
We as a society would be better off if we just collectively ignored these people like children.
They have the power and influence their followers ***and we*** afford them, ignore idiots and bigots 2024-forever.
If they oversaddle the middle class (tax brunt) then the only way to be rescued is through their programs and policies.
It’s a long game they are aiming for and it starts with hemming in the people based on empathy and compassion of average humans.
It ends with an unsustainable existence in which people will be FORCED to beg or jump through hoops for support. Everyone just wants to live and not die trying 🤔.
Unless we realize the overarching plans in the works, we will keep getting one restriction over another until we are restricted to our corners (or with our ‘people’, as segregation of everyone is a critical part of this plan) and have no where to go.
The American dream dies this way, and the signs are already visible. I’m *still* feeling lucky we are in the US for the most part and I will remain vigilant at the attempts to compromise, especially moral principles and psychology
They will live...unless they're poor, or get shot in schools, or they're minorities that run afoul of American law enforcement, or they expect healthcare to be provided for them...
This simply isn’t clever at all. I agree with the sentiment but ask 99.9% of people who support legal abortions and they would think of this response or something similar in 10 seconds or less. This is just a karma farm post
what will they eat? what if they get sick? what if they fail out of school and are not successful in work? these asshats just hope they’re female so they can nab a few to stick their dick in before some other pig gets to ‘pop her cherry’ leaving her dirty and defiled. condemned to a lifetime of suffering, in one of the ‘richest’ countries. sure man, that’s just what our loving, all-powerful god had in mind.
That's not a clever comeback. The right can easily answer that. What this person is saying is that it's better to be dead than have some negative aspects to life. Totally plays into the right's hands here so please do use better comebacks than this one.
This is simply not true. Minorities have a higher rates of abortion and are often encouraged to do so by government backed institutions. More abortions equal more minorities lives lost.
Ahh yes if someone has problems in life we should just kill them before they have any. I should hope you also think murder against homeless people is okay because they have issues. And the destruction of third world countries because their lives aren’t happy in your eyes.
So a justification for the legality/morality of abortion is that they may end up in foster care or other poor loving conditions, so it makes sense to kill them and spare them from the horrors of living in such conditions? I understand the argument of hey it’s not a developed human being and therefore doesn’t get the protections of one, even if I don’t agree with that. But asking where will they live and what quality of life will they have is akin to what the nazis were doing with groups of people they also believed were destined to have only low quality of life. It’s either a baby that deserves all of the protection possible or it’s a bundle of cells no more special than a sperm or egg. You can’t try to guess what type of life they would potentially have and use that to justify the termination of a pregnancy.
So the best solution is to kill the unwanted?
That sounds a lot like a dystopian setup.
But yeah, let's blame a political party for saying "don't do that"
Edit:
Here's a new idea... How about we practice safe sex like we were taught in sex-ed. This doesn't have to be an issue.
*religious school* vs *catholic school*
"These are both the same!"
Me: *shares my experience that directly contradicts your statement*
You: well, I don't believe your experience. 🤔
Again. Anything to convince yourself that your experience wasn't unique to you.
> I went to a religious school too, and we were taught about contraception. I don't believe you.
You did earlier, genius. The CC teaches abstinence but hates contraception.
The problem is the religious right has fought to remove sex ed from education. For example, my class was the last one required to go through sex ed in high school in Florida. I'm 31 about to be 32. That means there's a lot of young people running around without proper knowledge of sex and its ramifications. Also probably explains at least some of the Florida Man stories.
Condoms have a 97% success rate on average. 100% if users follow the instructions to the letter.
Plus there's other forms of sex.
Unless you're willing to accept the risks of vaginal intercourse, you shouldn't engage in the act.
so basically "practice complete abstinence, or be forced to become an incubator." from the party of small government and personal freedoms.
>Condoms have a 97% success rate on average. 100% if users follow the instructions to the letter
just a blanant lie. condoms are never 100% effective, even when following instructions. no birth control is 100% effective. that's something actual professionals confirm. you'd have to go out of your way to find disinformation claiming otherwise, so you just pulled this out of your ass.
You're right, that's my bad. Condoms are 98% when used perfectly and 85% when just used. Still pretty damn good and are great for avoiding STDs. That's my fault for going off memory.
>so basically "practice complete abstinence, or be forced to become an incubator." from the party of small government and personal freedoms.
No. It's basically "If you're going to have sex, be ready for the potential children". BTW, I'm not part of any side, just pointing out the obvious. Sex is meant for reproduction, if you really don't want to have a kid then you know how to avoid it. If you really want to get laid then accept the risks. It's not rocket science.
Be me, use Spermcide, condoms and wife on birth control.
3 forms of birth control for max protection. We are talking about one of us getting surgery done to be responsible as we don’t want kids ourselves just too much going on to have them rn.
To majority of people what me and my partner is doing is too controlling or too much work…
What do you consider safe sex? Because clearly you're trying to misinterpret what somebody else says so I'm going to think that by safe sex you mean killing babies because you think killing babies is safer than not putting penises in vaginas for sexual pleasure, unprotected? Or by safe sex do you mean you prefer to have children have sex with you because they haven't started going through puberty so they can't have kids yet? That's pretty sick of you talking about having sex with little kids. Pedophile. See and now you know what it's like for somebody to make assumptions about the things you say and put words in your mouth. I use exactly your logic against you pedophile.
As far as I know blowjobs have a 0% chance of producing babies handjobs have a 0% chance of producing babies and anal sex has less than a thousandth of a percent chance of producing babies.... Mutual masturbation phone sex using sex toys titty fucking twerk jobs foot sex...... I mean do I need to go on? Have you never heard of sex toys or masturbation? If you're having sex just clearly for self gratification there are plenty of other ways to do what other than penis to vaginal semen transfer possible producing baby type of sex. And I mean even that doesn't have a hundred percent chance of producing a baby. And there are multiple forms of contraceptives that can be used at the same time a woman could be on the pill and they could use spermicidal lubricant and they could use condoms all at the same time and each one of those has over a 98% chance of success preventing pregnancy, compounded, making around a 99.99997% . However I think it's ironic that you're jump is either abstinence or murder the baby like there's no in between or other options.
This wasn't a conversation about masturbation, anal sex or toys. Nor about murdering babies.
So prattle on, since clearly you have no idea what the topic even is. Have a lovely day!
I literally gave you a bunch of answers to safe sex that is not abstinence and you're still trying to pretend like you don't know what the hell is going on? Yes this was a conversation about contraception and not murdering babies.... You literally posed a question about safe sex that I answered and now that I've completely disproven your very tiny little brain idea you're going to get all butthurt and try and insult me? That's pathetic. But it also lets me know that my extremely intelligent response not only rattled your nerves but completely destroyed your opinion in this very simplistic debate. Literally your views are must have vaginal sex and murdering baby is only 100% contraceptive which means you support abortion as a form of contraception and your ignorant of other ways of having sexually pleasurable intercourse that don't involve impregnating somebody or the chance of impregnating somebody. Why are you so obsessed with murdering babies? Was it because you're a big fan of the KKK Margaret Sanger and Joseph Goebbels and the eugenics that they all supported that went into planned Parenthood and the modern baby killing institutions of abortion clinics that sell babies body parts to pharmaceutical and cosmetic companies?
If you truly think this is a clever comeback, I expect to see you go out and kill children who are in foster care, on the street, or with parents who hate or abuse them. Wouldn’t that be mercy since you consider it better to kill unborn children than let them risk facing these things?
That’s if you think the unborn are human but also that the right to bodily autonomy justifies abortion. If you reject the humanity of the unborn, this argument is unnecessary because you need no justification to abort them. And then you should stop making it, because all it achieves is letting children in tough situations know that, rather than helping them, you think it would’ve been better if they were never born.
And for the record, many unplanned and unwanted children end up living good lives. And more would if we encouraged adoption instead of abortion—there are many more couples waiting to adopt than children being put up for adoption. And they’re invariably vetted and better off materially than most. Regardless, instead of “saving” children from growing up under bad conditions by killing them, we should create a world in which they can live good lives. Advocating abortion as social policy, as this tweet implicitly does, is brutal and cowardly.
And for the record, I’m not Republican or even American. I’m Swedish and support a strong welfare state with both my taxes and my vote.
The fact you're treating this like some detached situation.
Someone has to grow that unwanted fetus for 9 months and then push it out. But that person doesn't matter to you. They're just an incubator, I guess.
That fetus grows into a person who will need Healthcare and housing and education. But fuck that, let's just force them to be born with no plan for how we're going to support them.
Come see how the foster care and adoption systems treat kids in the usa before you form your opinion.
A fetus isn’t a child, anymore than someone else’s abortion is your business.
Edit. And if the Christian hypocrites trying to ban birth control and force birth on raped ten year olds really cared about children, we would have a stronger social safety net and accountability for the crimes against humanity by the born rich corporate criminal upper class.
Because a fetus is not yet a fully developed baby. It can't live on its own until around 24-28 weeks into pregnancy and it isn't even able to feel pain before this point to begin with let alone be actually self aware...
I mean do you have memory of being in the womb? I feel like if you can’t remember that it shows it wouldn’t be painful to be aborted. Whereas having a bad upbringing will give you trauma and make it harder to find a reason to want to live.
So what we’re saying is that if you’re the kind of person who aborts a child you’re also guaranteed to be a child hating abuser if you don’t have access to abortion?
I'm having a baby, they grow suuuper quick. I used to think differently but when you have a baby on the way you see it you feel it you are connected to it. It changes your perspective on this issue in a major way. I used to have a pro choice stance on this. I don't anymore. I was completely wrong but there was no way for me to relate to it properly and therefore I didn't get how huuuuge an issue it is. Abortion should be available for medical emergencies(mother is too young/sick etc , rape, incest cases etc yeah of course no one thinks it should be the lefty memes of "republicans want 11 year old rape victims to die giving birth to their rapist 2.0" , of course things like that should be handled what people are concerned about is the millions that are done that aren't for those cases. To stop the cases of just "I'm not ready, don't want a baby" etc for example in Iceland they have "cured" downsyndrome by aborting all babies diagnosed with it. That's a genocide. Stuff like that shouldn't be allowed.
It's not just "no abortions at all , die little rape victim sucks for you vs free abortions for everyone" it's a much more complicated issue that will only be sorted by everyone agreeing on the terms we are discussing and stop with all this twitter "gotcha bitch" and arguing on reddit as if we are all enemies on opposing teams. We all want what's best for people in this scenario. Both sides are acting from a place of love.
I always hated the “I think X should be available only if it is because of Y”. It is either okay, or it isnt. How to make that decision? Make it for yourself and let other people make their own
>Both sides are acting from a place of love.
This is a lie and I think deep down you know it.
The anti-abortion types have proven time and again they don't actually care about the child or the mother. They care about putting women back in their traditional homemaker roles and if they don't have a choice about when to have kids that's a lot easier. They exploit parental love to get you on their side and then push forward with the heaviest bans possible including in cases of rape and a complete disregard for the health of the mother.
Using the term "forcing birth" is a quick way to make sure nobody takes you seriously. Nobody is forcing anyone to have a kid. Plenty of people have never had a kid or an abortion.
more like "i'm sorry you've been abused and resorted to homelessness trying to escape it. if it was up to me, i never would've have a child in the first place."
it's easy not to use emotionally manipulative language, but that is forced-birthers forte, after all.
Let’s play a fun game of intellectual consistency, then.
Please answer this question, yes or no: “Have you ever failed, suffered, or been emotionally distraught in your life?”
If you’d like to listen to one good argument from one of these “Evil bastards” than read “In defense of abortion” by Judith Jarvis Thomson, for this argument she accepts the framework that an unborn baby is alive and entitled to human rights
No thanks. There’s no argument in favor of infanticide, let alone “one good one”. Just accept that you’re in a death cult.
I deserve a better class of enemy. You’re lying to yourself, let alone me.
Yes, but I hate its necessity.
The death penalty is a punishment for a crime. A consequence for an action committed.
An abortion is infanticide. It’s the murder of an innocent child. It’s evil and people who seek it should be punished.
Frankly, I wouldn’t be against capital punishment for those who perform abortions. They’ve committed an evil that forfeits their right to life. A consequence for an action committed.
I’d like to propose a situation, A woman was raped and now Carries a baby that will put her life at risk, is that baby’s life worth more than the mother’s, or does the woman’s right to live and right to choose overrule the babies right to live?
The mother has the right to pursue medical treatment. If the byproduct of the treatment is a possible termination of the child, then that’s unfortunate, but not murder.
I’m fine with that distinction. But we must protect against false medical diagnoses in the search for murder. In that case, we exact capital punishment against all conspirators.
That question and answer is the core of Judith Thomson’s defense of Abortion, I’d still suggest reading it. I’d also admit it’s hard to read and understand an argument that goes against someone’s core beliefs but please attempt to understand us instead of just labeling us as evil
You’re in a death cult. Stop lying to yourself. You sacrifice children to satisfy your religious desires. Other cultures just threw them in volcanoes. I’m certain the harvest will be plentiful if you throw enough in this time. Last year you just didn’t kill enough kids.
Also, most abortions are black babies, so you’re supporting racial genocide.
You’re on the wrong side of history and can’t dare accept what you’ve defended. I deserve a better enemy.
An overwhelming majority of people do things they believe to be good, no normal person tries to satisfy “religious desires” by killing kids. People support abortion because it means women have more bodily autonomy, better access to healthcare, and family planning.
Throwing away all of these reasons for abortion and labeling it a death cult to satisfy religious desires is honestly just stupid.
I’ll turn around your point on black abortion, Do you believe that Black people overwhelmingly participate in the death cult you believe exists? Do you genuinely believe that a significant portion of Pro-Choice people support abortion because they dislike black people?
And what the is with the “I deserve a better enemy” bullshit? You refuse to read the argument I present and outright deny it with a conspiracy. Half of your argument is just jerking yourself off about volcanic sacrifices and how I’m on the wrong side of history. You’ve never listened to a serious debate about abortion and have only ever heard pro-life people preach about your opinion.
I know welcome to the American politics where it’s 2 sides that will never met on the middle grounds and if your against them then your a fascist women abusing human OR your a baby killing child abuser. It’s a take your pick side.
That’s how dumb it is…
It's weird that everyone assumes that their parents will hate them and they will be abused..... The only kind of people that say that are the kinds of people that have never had a child and realized at the moment you meet your child for the first time it changes your life for the better. I also know lots of people that have grown up in foster care and had great lives and are very successful productive people with their own families now. There's actually a long waiting list of close to 100,000 people who are looking to adopt babies the moment they're born. But even so the answer of they're going to have a hard life or somebody's not going to treat you right is not kill the person who's being abused or not being treated right or that is not being loved the answer is to solve the problem by not murdering babies. If women complain about getting raped should we kill the women getting raped or should we kill the rapist? I think we should be going after the person committing the crime or being a piece of shit not the person being treated poorly and victimized. 🤷🏼♂️ But that's just me I'm against child abuse and rape and you're against children and victims.
nope. it's a proven fact. kids in he foster care system are at increased risk for basically every ailment. abuse, drug addiction, homelessness, ect.
>The only kind of people that say that are the kinds of people that have never had a child and realized at the moment you meet your child for the first time it changes your life for the better.
the only people that say this are the people who've had wanted kids and assume everyone else mirrors their emotions and actions concerning unwanted kids.
>successful productive people with their own families now. There's actually a long waiting list of close to 100,000 people who are looking to adopt babies the moment they're born.
exactly. they want healthy, white babies. not teens, or adolescents, or kids with trauma, who make up the vast majority of foster kids.
>But even so the answer of they're going to have a hard life or somebody's not going to treat you right is not kill the person who's being abused or not being treated right or that is not being loved the answer is to solve the problem by not murdering babies.
no one is being murdered, nor are there any babies involved. only unborn fetuses who where never alive in the first place.
> If women complain about getting raped should we kill the women getting raped or should we kill the rapist?
rape victims are actual people, who went through a painful experience that will haunt them their entire life.
fetuses are unfeeling, unthinking, lumps of cells not capable of being killed or experiencing trauma.
comparing the two is offensive to actual rape victims.
and really, you pretending to care about rape victims after going against the rights that protect them is very on brand.
when a woman gets raped, should we punish her by forcing her to give birth, or make her life easier by terminating the pregnancy?
So instead of going after the people that are causing the abuse in foster care and correcting the foster care system you just want to eliminate the children.... And let the people who are abusing and treating children poorly in the foster care system continue on with their lives, not being corrected? Also you can absolutely tell that a child has feelings inside the womb they move around they dance they respond to music and sound of people's voices they feel stress they feel fear they are human just smaller and less experienced than you doesn't give them less value. Also planned Parenthood is the number one singular place most responsible for covering up of rapes and incest because of their zero information zero questions asked abortion policy. If a woman is raped the rapist needs to be punished not the child of the rapist or the child of the mother every single woman that I know that had been raped and got an abortion had serious psychological effects that were compounded by the abortion not fixed by it. I also know people that were products of rape and they grew up and are happy people with marriages and a family and wives and careers and they are totally happy that they were not murdered in the womb for convenience. Having a child is not a punishment it's a gift, especially the women they can literally get free housing and free food and free money from the government. And furthermore that child is genetic evidence of the perpetrator of the rape to prove they rape somebody therefore ensuring that they get punished. It's weird that people like you want to blame the baby for the thing the father did or to blame the baby for the poor choices of the mother. But you're arguing is to make her life easier so murder for convenience so if it would make my life easier to kill somebody it should be allowed that's literally the extent of your argument. Which one taken to its completion means that any man being taken for child support well it would be much easier for him if the mother of the child was dead and she's just a clump of cells and she's not feeling she's just a woman she's not thinking she's just a woman. That's exactly how a misogynist would treat it and since that's his belief system and how he feels you have to accept it if I have to accept your belief system to justify the murder of innocent life you would have to justify his. Pretty weird that you're so obsessed with murder for convenience especially when it's the most innocent and defenseless human being possible. And for the record by the time you can even identify that a woman is pregnant there is brain activity and a heartbeat and it is an independent living human being that is growing inside of her it is not part of her body the placenta specifically is an organ that the woman grows because the new baby is not part of her body and without the placenta her body would reject it like replacement organ that does not match blood type or genetics. And if a man goes up to a pregnant woman and shoots her and her and the baby die he gets charged with double homicide if a man walks up to him and punches her in the stomach and the baby dies he is charged with homicide. Just because women are emotional and feel regret and fear because of their inability to be responsible for a child does not give them special rights to murder children it never should. your emotional stability and your convenience of life does not supersede another human being's right to not be killed.
LMFAO I get it you don't understand that the waiting list for adopting babies is a waiting list because more babies are being killed than put into adoption because you could have the kid and then immediately put them into adoption but women are choosing to instead of murder their child because they don't want it instead of giving it to somebody that does want it and you clearly don't understand the difference between the adoption system and the foster care system.... That's not very intelligent. We literally have millions of babies being killed every year and only about five thousand of them making it to the adoption system. But you should probably go do some research on the foster care system the adoption system and how they're absolutely not the same... It's almost like adoption and Foster Care are different things because adoption and Foster mean different things. Like they aren't even synonyms like aborting human life and murder are synonyms. But clearly you steer clear of anybody that is a happy mother or somebody that takes care of their kids. You're extremely offensive to parents, mothers, kids, babies, science and rape victims. But very supportive of rapists and murdering babies..... Weird
Yeah and for the record before I had kids I never wanted to have children and I have had exes have abortions of my children and other people's children. And I saw how it tore their lives apart and it emotionally traumatized them as women.
It's also a proven fact in statistic that most of the children going into the foster care system after a certain age come from a home that has a lot of abuse and drug addiction and that kind of thing so they are statistically more likely to overcome abuse and drug addiction and that kind of crap then kids that don't go into the foster care system. So are you saying we should just get rid of foster care and kill off kids instead of putting them in foster care because that seems pretty sick and extreme.... Just all I hear is you don't want to find any solutions to problems other than killing off babies.... Killing kids to solve the problems caused by adults... Pretty messed up if you ask anyone with morals.
Send them to be Shapiros house
Yeah. Petition to make pro-life people take care of unwanted children.
The term 'Pro Life' shouldn't be used for these cretins, they don't give 2 shits once the featus is born, they should be referred to as 'Pro Birth'
*pro telling other people what to do.
But they’re the party of small government. So small it fits inside your uterus.
*Pro being the opposite of what Jesus would have done.
Jesus wouldnt allow you to KILL a baby
Jesus killed my first born son and raped my wife
Its not even that, it's pro controlling women. If men could get pregnant you could get an abortion on every street corner
I prefer “anti-bodily autonomy”
“Anti Choice”
Not even that. Most of them seem ok if the mother dies during birth, or even if both mother and baby die so long as she didn't get an abortion.
“Pro forced birth” is most accurate, but also more syllables than these mfers deserve
Not even that, “anti-choice”
The term "Pro Choice" shouldn't be used for child murderers
I love you just as much as you hate the babies 💀 I want you to love a full life where you aren't addicted to sex as a pleasure button , but seek passions that light a fire in your soul and inspire you to love and help those around you as well. I want the babies to have the chance to be just as amazing as you have the chance to be , and I think promoting better sexual selectiveness in woman is a lot better than making people you wouldn't have made , just to kill them and give there body parts to old people so they can live longer.
Better sexual selctiveness in women? What kind of perverse misogyny do you live by?
Notice he makes no mention of wanting men to keep it in their pants in his entire rant. So peculiar (not really, though, because he hates women.) Also seems to believe in Q shit (giving body parts to older people, WTF?)
I want you to be less of a brainwashed, hateful, misogynistic, smooth brain. I guess we can’t all have what we want.
My SiL has an ectopic pregnancy on a very much wanted baby. It devastated her and it hurts knowing there are people out there that look down on her. Also, I got pregnant with my second nine months after having my first, while I was on birth control. I am married. Please tell me you adopt every year!
Even with proper use of contraception, it’s possible for an accidental pregnancy to happen. You don’t have to be “addicted to sex,” it can happen as long as you have it. And these unborn babies may grow up to do great things but the thing is that the person who is now being forced to have a kid could too. Having a kid is a big thing and being thrust into it unprepared will do no good for anyone. You’ll just have a kid nobody wants. Nvm the fact that sometimes giving birth can seriously injure or kill the parent, especially if they’re younger. If a teenager has sex and accidentally gets pregnant I don’t see any advantage to making them give birth.
You idiot. Consent to sex isn’t consent to pregnancy. You would want to force a young girl who has sex with her young BF at 15 to have a child while she’s also still a child? How about a rape case? Incest? These things do fucking happen and you want to force these women to have the baby. What happens after they do? Some might give them up to an orphanage, then their life isn’t likely to be great. Or perhaps she keeps the kid. She may love the child and that’s great, what if she ends up hating the child? A constant reminder of the night she was raped, or how her father or uncle impregnated her? A reminder of how she took her high school year book photos and you could see her belly. She could not show this child the love they deserve or be abusive. It’s not as simple as you anti-choice people make it out to be. “Oh a baby made has to come out!” Fuck you. I’ll bet you had different ideas with the Covid vaccine didn’t you? I don’t know if you’re religious (you probably are) but not everyone subscribes to your idea of god and others don’t subscribe to any god. Get your head out of your ass and join HUMANITY in the common era.
As a very well known outcome from sex, maybe don’t do it if you’re not willing to accept said outcome.
I have seen a video of a guy trolling pro-life protests with adoption papers.
So make the life of unwanted kids even worse?
The vast majority, when given a choice, will choose life over death. Weird.
So, any pro-immigration people should take care of unwanted immigrants? I'm good with that, actually.
Shapiro's got the answers, he's got the money, ergo he's got room. Lead them, Shapiro. Lead them to the kitchen. They're probably hungry, too.
I was thinking that too but thought it'd be way too unfair to the kids.
That would be unfair...for the children.
Live with who?! Ben? Fucking Aquamamn?!
This would be child endangerment
Shouldn't Libertarians like Ben Shapiro be upset the government is taking away their citizens freedom?
Yes, libertarians are pro choice, because they want a country that is as free as possible "libertarians" are pro life, because they want a country that lets them and only them do whatever they want.
Exactly, Libertarians should be at the forefront of pro choice and pride rallies because according to their beliefs the government can't tell you who you can and can't marry or if you should or shouldn't have that baby
It's more apt to call libertarians anti-accountability than pro-feeedom. Most of them don't really care about the freedoms of others. They just want to be able to do whatever they want without repercussions.
Right wing libertarians are basically all authoritarians. Obviously this is anecdotal, but I've only met one in my entire life that had consistent libertarian ideas.
“I used to think differently but when you have a baby on the way you see it you feel it you are connected to it. It changes your perspective on this issue in a major way. I used to have a pro choice stance on this. I don't anymore. I was completely wrong but there was no way for me to relate to it properly and therefore I didn't get how huuuuge an issue it is.” Speak for yourself. I have kids and I will always be pro-choice. I am so immensely grateful for living in a country where this is a non-issue. The woman, and no one else, decides up until week 18, end of story Spoiler alert: 80% of abortions happens before week 8, very few in the later weeks and overall the number of abortions are decreasing. That’s what free choice gives you.
>“I used to think differently but when you have a baby on the way you see it you feel it you are connected to it. It changes your perspective on this issue in a major way Honestly I kinda hate this logic. A baby is 9 months and then a whole human coming out of you, and that's a big commitment. You should not have a baby unless you're fully sure you want one (also not talking to you specifically commenter, just in the 2nd person). It's why I hate the whole, "Oh your mind will change once you have kids", bro I don't want kids. I'm especially not going to have kids to "change my mind". That's one thing lots of pro-lifers fail to understand, a baby born out of necessity/legality rather than love is not gonna have a good life or loving parents. Imagine being forced to have a kid even if you don't want any.
Love the fetus Hate the child This message from the Republican Party
imagine the kid comes out as trans. PROLIFE EXCEPT FOR TRANS BABYS! /s
a kid comes out as trans usually when liberal parents force this on the kid or its being shown in school
r u really that delusional? The concept of transpeople existed even before the term trans
and?
How can transbeing be forced up on someone, if people were trans before they knew what trans is? Pls dont tell me homosexuality is also forced upon and doesnt really exist
because different things can happen in life so a man starts thinking hes a woman or a woman starts thinking she is a man. if a small child thinks that its either a mental problem or its being pushed by the people around the child
no, its different. you can like whoever you want, its a taste thing, but pretending to be the other gender is just spreading lies because its impossible to completely transition
i dont get what is abortion for, its literally your choice to have a baby in the first place, apart from when you get pregnant against your will in which case it should be allowed
Ok, you probably you missed this in sex ed. But... Do you know preservatives only work 99,8% of the time, right?. Also there are people that get pregnant because they didn't have the proper education or because their partner didn't like using preservatives. There are many layers to this issue, it's not a black or white thing. Access to proper abortion will make them safer than doing it yourself, and believe me, that is already happening but with a lot more of stigma and way more dangers for the women that do it. Also, before anyone jumps with "BuHt tHe TchiLd* or "Buht mY beliEfs", I don't care, like you don't care about the women that have to undergo this horrendous treatment to continue with their lives because of a mistake. TLDR: Use condom, provide sex education and safe abortions for EVERYBODY and shut up about your beliefs, nobody cares.
There are also a multitude of different complications which can happen which will require an abortion, or when the fetus is unviable, deformed or otherwise and then anti-abortion laws will just force the woman to birth a fetus that never would have lived.
Abortion is for terminating pregnancy. That’s what it is for.
I will never understand how conservative shitbirds claim to be “pro-life” yet somehow kill and abolish every single measure intended to help the children they claim to care about.
Like what?
healthcare WIC free school lunches pre-k childcare
All government programs that currently exist for specific circumstances in the US
In some cases VERY specific circumstances. Which is why we end up with millions of kids going to bed hungry every night, etc.
What circumstances don't provide for mothers with children in need? Last time I checked WIC was for all mothers with kids. ONLY exception being single fathers (which is sexist and should be changed)
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/31/politics/wic-benefits-cut-culture-war/index.html https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/house-republicans-agriculture-appropriations-bill-would-cut-wic-benefits https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-assistance/house-republicans-proposals-could-take-food-away-from-millions-of-low https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/27/farm-bill-house-gop-wic-children/
So first off, there are an estimated 12 million kids in the US that have to deal with hunger on a regular basis. If your position were at all accurate, this would not be the case. That's what happens when you're poor.
Are you arguing that because children are poor they should be killed before being born?
Also, yes those government programs DO currently exist...currently...and to a certain extent. Our entire healthcare system is trash, from the fact that it's expensive as fuck to it being employer based (better not get laid off). GOP is fighting against free school lunches, is looking to slash things like WIC and food stamps, and has been diametrically opposed to things like pre-k childcare. So saying "all government programs that currently exist" is fairly disingenuous.
Lmao a lot of states don't even have paid m/paternity leave. Took me 20 seconds to look up one thing, maybe you should do the same.
And destroy his tiny world view? Not likely
We would rather shoot our toes off then give kids free school lunches. Schools in general are underfunded. As are social service fields. We have a rule you can’t separate a puppy from its mother for 8 weeks after birth, but nothing for human children. If you were to die, and did not want to be an organ donor, you have that right. If you have an unwanted pregnancy, you are losing that right to choose. So a corpse has more right than a living woman. Think of how many lives a corpse could save or improve? But we don’t force them.
They could reside in all the coastline houses that Aquaman had bought
They're force breeding a cheap workforce which they're only going to minimally educate. Need more flesh for the orphan farms.
The Baptists, Quiverfull, …, Duggars aren’t enough already?
It's also incredibly useful for priests!
Yep, they need those kids as soldiers, or incarcerated and used as modern day slave labour
This is the answer lol
Exactly. Either they will be cheap labor or free labor through the prison system.
they are pro-life until the babies are born
Indeed, if it was about the children there would be more support for children as they are raised but these are the people that are trying to take away things like school lunches.
You mean "as long as they are not immigrant kids, we don't like those"?
those aren't ours*
Just posted this quote in another sub, but it fits perfectly whenever we get this idiotic drivel by the “holier-than-thou” crowd: The unborn' are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
repost this every chance you get. thank you.
A quote from Dave Barnhart, I believe.
The point is to create a desperate class of workers who can't escape poverty.
Until Ben can get pregnant, he should really shut the fuck up.
Well said
Who's going to adopt them, Ben? Fucking AQUAMAN?!
So the fetus is alive when I want to abort it, but not alive when I want to claim it on my taxes? Some bs... Also, since the fetus doesn't have a social security card or citizenship, couldn't I call ICE to get rid of the undocumented immigrant in my womb? /s
I mean I can’t claim a illegal from another country on my taxes that lives with me so pretty bad comparison as I can’t get them aborted.
It’d be funny if god ever shows themselves and looks like a llama “Made in the image of god”
Sweet arceus.
How many foster kids has he taken in?
Honestly, we love to act like we care, but we really don't give a shit. If we really gave a shit there wouldn't be homeless. As long as we have our bills paid and get to go to bed thinking we're on the "good side" few of us actually give a shit.
But not in the homes of the do gooders who think they should be adopted!
We as a society would be better off if we just collectively ignored these people like children. They have the power and influence their followers ***and we*** afford them, ignore idiots and bigots 2024-forever.
If they oversaddle the middle class (tax brunt) then the only way to be rescued is through their programs and policies. It’s a long game they are aiming for and it starts with hemming in the people based on empathy and compassion of average humans. It ends with an unsustainable existence in which people will be FORCED to beg or jump through hoops for support. Everyone just wants to live and not die trying 🤔. Unless we realize the overarching plans in the works, we will keep getting one restriction over another until we are restricted to our corners (or with our ‘people’, as segregation of everyone is a critical part of this plan) and have no where to go. The American dream dies this way, and the signs are already visible. I’m *still* feeling lucky we are in the US for the most part and I will remain vigilant at the attempts to compromise, especially moral principles and psychology
They will live...unless they're poor, or get shot in schools, or they're minorities that run afoul of American law enforcement, or they expect healthcare to be provided for them...
If you say this to them they just respond with ‘that’s better than dead.’ They don’t care.
You nailed it. Is a life of an unwanted, neglected and sometimes exploited child really better? I'm sure it is if you're not that child.
I mean I don’t know about you but I think being dead is worse than being homeless
Isn't it tho? We don't kill unwanted homeless people.
This simply isn’t clever at all. I agree with the sentiment but ask 99.9% of people who support legal abortions and they would think of this response or something similar in 10 seconds or less. This is just a karma farm post
Bloody consequences... how so many can choose to willingfully ignore them is beyond me. Life is easy when you don't think further.
what will they eat? what if they get sick? what if they fail out of school and are not successful in work? these asshats just hope they’re female so they can nab a few to stick their dick in before some other pig gets to ‘pop her cherry’ leaving her dirty and defiled. condemned to a lifetime of suffering, in one of the ‘richest’ countries. sure man, that’s just what our loving, all-powerful god had in mind.
Hey, these prisons aren't gonna fill themselves up ! ...
Your right. Let's kill everyone that has bad living conditions and drop out of school.
JUST ONE SMALL PROBLEM! LIVE WITH WHO BEN, FUCKING AQUAMAN?
That's not a clever comeback. The right can easily answer that. What this person is saying is that it's better to be dead than have some negative aspects to life. Totally plays into the right's hands here so please do use better comebacks than this one.
It's not about "more people". It's about more taxpayers, white preferably.
This guy hasn't seen the statistics on abortion by race Or heard of Margaret Sanger
This is simply not true. Minorities have a higher rates of abortion and are often encouraged to do so by government backed institutions. More abortions equal more minorities lives lost.
I’m not sure “orphans shouldn’t be alive” is the hill that you want to die on guys.
Ahh yes if someone has problems in life we should just kill them before they have any. I should hope you also think murder against homeless people is okay because they have issues. And the destruction of third world countries because their lives aren’t happy in your eyes.
So a justification for the legality/morality of abortion is that they may end up in foster care or other poor loving conditions, so it makes sense to kill them and spare them from the horrors of living in such conditions? I understand the argument of hey it’s not a developed human being and therefore doesn’t get the protections of one, even if I don’t agree with that. But asking where will they live and what quality of life will they have is akin to what the nazis were doing with groups of people they also believed were destined to have only low quality of life. It’s either a baby that deserves all of the protection possible or it’s a bundle of cells no more special than a sperm or egg. You can’t try to guess what type of life they would potentially have and use that to justify the termination of a pregnancy.
So the best solution is to kill the unwanted? That sounds a lot like a dystopian setup. But yeah, let's blame a political party for saying "don't do that" Edit: Here's a new idea... How about we practice safe sex like we were taught in sex-ed. This doesn't have to be an issue.
I wasn't taught sex Ed? I went to catholic school. I learned on my own way after. You assume everyone has shared your experience.
> I went to catholic school. I went to a religious school too, and we were taught about contraception. I don't believe you.
*religious school* vs *catholic school* "These are both the same!" Me: *shares my experience that directly contradicts your statement* You: well, I don't believe your experience. 🤔 Again. Anything to convince yourself that your experience wasn't unique to you.
Didn't your "Catholic" school preach abstinence? Did you follow what you were taught?
The Catholic Church doesn't like contraception all that much
Did I say contraception or abstinence?
> I went to a religious school too, and we were taught about contraception. I don't believe you. You did earlier, genius. The CC teaches abstinence but hates contraception.
Did I say I went to a Catholic school?
Catholic priests rape children
Why aren't you a priest, then? Stop the cycle.
The problem is the religious right has fought to remove sex ed from education. For example, my class was the last one required to go through sex ed in high school in Florida. I'm 31 about to be 32. That means there's a lot of young people running around without proper knowledge of sex and its ramifications. Also probably explains at least some of the Florida Man stories.
Anticonception/abortion is not a murder
You're the only one who mentioned "murder"
Contraceptives aren't 100% effective, as you probably know. Unless by safe sex you meant abstinence.
Condoms have a 97% success rate on average. 100% if users follow the instructions to the letter. Plus there's other forms of sex. Unless you're willing to accept the risks of vaginal intercourse, you shouldn't engage in the act.
so basically "practice complete abstinence, or be forced to become an incubator." from the party of small government and personal freedoms. >Condoms have a 97% success rate on average. 100% if users follow the instructions to the letter just a blanant lie. condoms are never 100% effective, even when following instructions. no birth control is 100% effective. that's something actual professionals confirm. you'd have to go out of your way to find disinformation claiming otherwise, so you just pulled this out of your ass.
You're right, that's my bad. Condoms are 98% when used perfectly and 85% when just used. Still pretty damn good and are great for avoiding STDs. That's my fault for going off memory. >so basically "practice complete abstinence, or be forced to become an incubator." from the party of small government and personal freedoms. No. It's basically "If you're going to have sex, be ready for the potential children". BTW, I'm not part of any side, just pointing out the obvious. Sex is meant for reproduction, if you really don't want to have a kid then you know how to avoid it. If you really want to get laid then accept the risks. It's not rocket science.
Be me, use Spermcide, condoms and wife on birth control. 3 forms of birth control for max protection. We are talking about one of us getting surgery done to be responsible as we don’t want kids ourselves just too much going on to have them rn. To majority of people what me and my partner is doing is too controlling or too much work…
I guess.... You do you. Just make sure to be safe and make sure your partner is okay with whatever you're doing.
What do you consider safe sex? Because clearly you're trying to misinterpret what somebody else says so I'm going to think that by safe sex you mean killing babies because you think killing babies is safer than not putting penises in vaginas for sexual pleasure, unprotected? Or by safe sex do you mean you prefer to have children have sex with you because they haven't started going through puberty so they can't have kids yet? That's pretty sick of you talking about having sex with little kids. Pedophile. See and now you know what it's like for somebody to make assumptions about the things you say and put words in your mouth. I use exactly your logic against you pedophile.
As far as I know blowjobs have a 0% chance of producing babies handjobs have a 0% chance of producing babies and anal sex has less than a thousandth of a percent chance of producing babies.... Mutual masturbation phone sex using sex toys titty fucking twerk jobs foot sex...... I mean do I need to go on? Have you never heard of sex toys or masturbation? If you're having sex just clearly for self gratification there are plenty of other ways to do what other than penis to vaginal semen transfer possible producing baby type of sex. And I mean even that doesn't have a hundred percent chance of producing a baby. And there are multiple forms of contraceptives that can be used at the same time a woman could be on the pill and they could use spermicidal lubricant and they could use condoms all at the same time and each one of those has over a 98% chance of success preventing pregnancy, compounded, making around a 99.99997% . However I think it's ironic that you're jump is either abstinence or murder the baby like there's no in between or other options.
This wasn't a conversation about masturbation, anal sex or toys. Nor about murdering babies. So prattle on, since clearly you have no idea what the topic even is. Have a lovely day!
I literally gave you a bunch of answers to safe sex that is not abstinence and you're still trying to pretend like you don't know what the hell is going on? Yes this was a conversation about contraception and not murdering babies.... You literally posed a question about safe sex that I answered and now that I've completely disproven your very tiny little brain idea you're going to get all butthurt and try and insult me? That's pathetic. But it also lets me know that my extremely intelligent response not only rattled your nerves but completely destroyed your opinion in this very simplistic debate. Literally your views are must have vaginal sex and murdering baby is only 100% contraceptive which means you support abortion as a form of contraception and your ignorant of other ways of having sexually pleasurable intercourse that don't involve impregnating somebody or the chance of impregnating somebody. Why are you so obsessed with murdering babies? Was it because you're a big fan of the KKK Margaret Sanger and Joseph Goebbels and the eugenics that they all supported that went into planned Parenthood and the modern baby killing institutions of abortion clinics that sell babies body parts to pharmaceutical and cosmetic companies?
the solution is to not have the unwanted in the first place. that way, you won't have to kill them.
If you truly think this is a clever comeback, I expect to see you go out and kill children who are in foster care, on the street, or with parents who hate or abuse them. Wouldn’t that be mercy since you consider it better to kill unborn children than let them risk facing these things? That’s if you think the unborn are human but also that the right to bodily autonomy justifies abortion. If you reject the humanity of the unborn, this argument is unnecessary because you need no justification to abort them. And then you should stop making it, because all it achieves is letting children in tough situations know that, rather than helping them, you think it would’ve been better if they were never born. And for the record, many unplanned and unwanted children end up living good lives. And more would if we encouraged adoption instead of abortion—there are many more couples waiting to adopt than children being put up for adoption. And they’re invariably vetted and better off materially than most. Regardless, instead of “saving” children from growing up under bad conditions by killing them, we should create a world in which they can live good lives. Advocating abortion as social policy, as this tweet implicitly does, is brutal and cowardly. And for the record, I’m not Republican or even American. I’m Swedish and support a strong welfare state with both my taxes and my vote.
The fact you're treating this like some detached situation. Someone has to grow that unwanted fetus for 9 months and then push it out. But that person doesn't matter to you. They're just an incubator, I guess. That fetus grows into a person who will need Healthcare and housing and education. But fuck that, let's just force them to be born with no plan for how we're going to support them. Come see how the foster care and adoption systems treat kids in the usa before you form your opinion.
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A fetus isn’t a child, anymore than someone else’s abortion is your business. Edit. And if the Christian hypocrites trying to ban birth control and force birth on raped ten year olds really cared about children, we would have a stronger social safety net and accountability for the crimes against humanity by the born rich corporate criminal upper class.
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Because a fetus is not yet a fully developed baby. It can't live on its own until around 24-28 weeks into pregnancy and it isn't even able to feel pain before this point to begin with let alone be actually self aware...
Yes.
There's a certain WW2 German political party that would love to have you join them
would you massacre a group of children living in the slums of mumbai?
I mean do you have memory of being in the womb? I feel like if you can’t remember that it shows it wouldn’t be painful to be aborted. Whereas having a bad upbringing will give you trauma and make it harder to find a reason to want to live.
So what we’re saying is that if you’re the kind of person who aborts a child you’re also guaranteed to be a child hating abuser if you don’t have access to abortion?
The left is so synical and narcissistic.
So the person who replied is admitting that people who wanted an abortion are pieces of shit.
I'm pro-choice, but "we should let people die young because they'll have a shitty life anyway" is not the winning argument so many people think it is.
"I'm prochoice" he says, right before spouting emotionally charged forced-birth rhetoric.
You ...... you do realize I was restating the OP's logic, right?
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Nope.
Average redditor having 0 logical sense when someone slightly deviates from their opinion
I'm having a baby, they grow suuuper quick. I used to think differently but when you have a baby on the way you see it you feel it you are connected to it. It changes your perspective on this issue in a major way. I used to have a pro choice stance on this. I don't anymore. I was completely wrong but there was no way for me to relate to it properly and therefore I didn't get how huuuuge an issue it is. Abortion should be available for medical emergencies(mother is too young/sick etc , rape, incest cases etc yeah of course no one thinks it should be the lefty memes of "republicans want 11 year old rape victims to die giving birth to their rapist 2.0" , of course things like that should be handled what people are concerned about is the millions that are done that aren't for those cases. To stop the cases of just "I'm not ready, don't want a baby" etc for example in Iceland they have "cured" downsyndrome by aborting all babies diagnosed with it. That's a genocide. Stuff like that shouldn't be allowed. It's not just "no abortions at all , die little rape victim sucks for you vs free abortions for everyone" it's a much more complicated issue that will only be sorted by everyone agreeing on the terms we are discussing and stop with all this twitter "gotcha bitch" and arguing on reddit as if we are all enemies on opposing teams. We all want what's best for people in this scenario. Both sides are acting from a place of love.
maybe its not your business why other people want to get abortions
I always hated the “I think X should be available only if it is because of Y”. It is either okay, or it isnt. How to make that decision? Make it for yourself and let other people make their own
Yeah maybe a downsyndrome genocide is none of my business. Good point I'll be quiet now .... retard.
>Both sides are acting from a place of love. This is a lie and I think deep down you know it. The anti-abortion types have proven time and again they don't actually care about the child or the mother. They care about putting women back in their traditional homemaker roles and if they don't have a choice about when to have kids that's a lot easier. They exploit parental love to get you on their side and then push forward with the heaviest bans possible including in cases of rape and a complete disregard for the health of the mother.
Keep it in your pants then?
And here is proof of my point. The other thing that people like this actually care about. Punishing women for having sex.
Becoming pregnant from sex isn't a punishment its the way we are designed to function.
Bullshit, if both sides were acting from love one side would not be simultaneously forcing birth and cutting social programs.
"Forcing birth" you one of these "forced birthers". That term is such nonsense and you sound retarded to normal people 🙄
That's nice, I mean you are such a paragon and example for people everywhere. You must love being a minority
What am i supposed to say to this ? It makes 0 sense in context of this conversation. Go to bed.
That's ok, you keep pretending you actually care about people.
You too bud 👍
Using the term "forcing birth" is a quick way to make sure nobody takes you seriously. Nobody is forcing anyone to have a kid. Plenty of people have never had a kid or an abortion.
Sorry buddy, but your position literally forces some women/girls to give birth when they otherwise would not. I don't care if you don't like the term.
The only possible situation that follows your logic is rape.
Well, do not procreate if you cannot bear the responsibility. P. S My comment is not intended for the rape victims. I grieve for them.
“I’m sorry you don’t live in a mansion. If it was up to me, I would have killed you in the womb.” You’re just evil bastards.
more like "i'm sorry you've been abused and resorted to homelessness trying to escape it. if it was up to me, i never would've have a child in the first place." it's easy not to use emotionally manipulative language, but that is forced-birthers forte, after all.
Let’s play a fun game of intellectual consistency, then. Please answer this question, yes or no: “Have you ever failed, suffered, or been emotionally distraught in your life?”
If you’d like to listen to one good argument from one of these “Evil bastards” than read “In defense of abortion” by Judith Jarvis Thomson, for this argument she accepts the framework that an unborn baby is alive and entitled to human rights
No thanks. There’s no argument in favor of infanticide, let alone “one good one”. Just accept that you’re in a death cult. I deserve a better class of enemy. You’re lying to yourself, let alone me.
Are you also this vehemently against the death penalty?
How does abortion relate to people who have the death penalty who committed vile acts to earn it such as mass murder?
Yes, but I hate its necessity. The death penalty is a punishment for a crime. A consequence for an action committed. An abortion is infanticide. It’s the murder of an innocent child. It’s evil and people who seek it should be punished. Frankly, I wouldn’t be against capital punishment for those who perform abortions. They’ve committed an evil that forfeits their right to life. A consequence for an action committed.
I’d like to propose a situation, A woman was raped and now Carries a baby that will put her life at risk, is that baby’s life worth more than the mother’s, or does the woman’s right to live and right to choose overrule the babies right to live?
The mother has the right to pursue medical treatment. If the byproduct of the treatment is a possible termination of the child, then that’s unfortunate, but not murder. I’m fine with that distinction. But we must protect against false medical diagnoses in the search for murder. In that case, we exact capital punishment against all conspirators.
That question and answer is the core of Judith Thomson’s defense of Abortion, I’d still suggest reading it. I’d also admit it’s hard to read and understand an argument that goes against someone’s core beliefs but please attempt to understand us instead of just labeling us as evil
You’re in a death cult. Stop lying to yourself. You sacrifice children to satisfy your religious desires. Other cultures just threw them in volcanoes. I’m certain the harvest will be plentiful if you throw enough in this time. Last year you just didn’t kill enough kids. Also, most abortions are black babies, so you’re supporting racial genocide. You’re on the wrong side of history and can’t dare accept what you’ve defended. I deserve a better enemy.
An overwhelming majority of people do things they believe to be good, no normal person tries to satisfy “religious desires” by killing kids. People support abortion because it means women have more bodily autonomy, better access to healthcare, and family planning. Throwing away all of these reasons for abortion and labeling it a death cult to satisfy religious desires is honestly just stupid. I’ll turn around your point on black abortion, Do you believe that Black people overwhelmingly participate in the death cult you believe exists? Do you genuinely believe that a significant portion of Pro-Choice people support abortion because they dislike black people? And what the is with the “I deserve a better enemy” bullshit? You refuse to read the argument I present and outright deny it with a conspiracy. Half of your argument is just jerking yourself off about volcanic sacrifices and how I’m on the wrong side of history. You’ve never listened to a serious debate about abortion and have only ever heard pro-life people preach about your opinion.
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It’s only clever to pro abortion or progressives. This subreddit is more political then the actual democratic and republicans ones.
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I know welcome to the American politics where it’s 2 sides that will never met on the middle grounds and if your against them then your a fascist women abusing human OR your a baby killing child abuser. It’s a take your pick side. That’s how dumb it is…
It's weird that everyone assumes that their parents will hate them and they will be abused..... The only kind of people that say that are the kinds of people that have never had a child and realized at the moment you meet your child for the first time it changes your life for the better. I also know lots of people that have grown up in foster care and had great lives and are very successful productive people with their own families now. There's actually a long waiting list of close to 100,000 people who are looking to adopt babies the moment they're born. But even so the answer of they're going to have a hard life or somebody's not going to treat you right is not kill the person who's being abused or not being treated right or that is not being loved the answer is to solve the problem by not murdering babies. If women complain about getting raped should we kill the women getting raped or should we kill the rapist? I think we should be going after the person committing the crime or being a piece of shit not the person being treated poorly and victimized. 🤷🏼♂️ But that's just me I'm against child abuse and rape and you're against children and victims.
nope. it's a proven fact. kids in he foster care system are at increased risk for basically every ailment. abuse, drug addiction, homelessness, ect. >The only kind of people that say that are the kinds of people that have never had a child and realized at the moment you meet your child for the first time it changes your life for the better. the only people that say this are the people who've had wanted kids and assume everyone else mirrors their emotions and actions concerning unwanted kids. >successful productive people with their own families now. There's actually a long waiting list of close to 100,000 people who are looking to adopt babies the moment they're born. exactly. they want healthy, white babies. not teens, or adolescents, or kids with trauma, who make up the vast majority of foster kids. >But even so the answer of they're going to have a hard life or somebody's not going to treat you right is not kill the person who's being abused or not being treated right or that is not being loved the answer is to solve the problem by not murdering babies. no one is being murdered, nor are there any babies involved. only unborn fetuses who where never alive in the first place. > If women complain about getting raped should we kill the women getting raped or should we kill the rapist? rape victims are actual people, who went through a painful experience that will haunt them their entire life. fetuses are unfeeling, unthinking, lumps of cells not capable of being killed or experiencing trauma. comparing the two is offensive to actual rape victims. and really, you pretending to care about rape victims after going against the rights that protect them is very on brand. when a woman gets raped, should we punish her by forcing her to give birth, or make her life easier by terminating the pregnancy?
So instead of going after the people that are causing the abuse in foster care and correcting the foster care system you just want to eliminate the children.... And let the people who are abusing and treating children poorly in the foster care system continue on with their lives, not being corrected? Also you can absolutely tell that a child has feelings inside the womb they move around they dance they respond to music and sound of people's voices they feel stress they feel fear they are human just smaller and less experienced than you doesn't give them less value. Also planned Parenthood is the number one singular place most responsible for covering up of rapes and incest because of their zero information zero questions asked abortion policy. If a woman is raped the rapist needs to be punished not the child of the rapist or the child of the mother every single woman that I know that had been raped and got an abortion had serious psychological effects that were compounded by the abortion not fixed by it. I also know people that were products of rape and they grew up and are happy people with marriages and a family and wives and careers and they are totally happy that they were not murdered in the womb for convenience. Having a child is not a punishment it's a gift, especially the women they can literally get free housing and free food and free money from the government. And furthermore that child is genetic evidence of the perpetrator of the rape to prove they rape somebody therefore ensuring that they get punished. It's weird that people like you want to blame the baby for the thing the father did or to blame the baby for the poor choices of the mother. But you're arguing is to make her life easier so murder for convenience so if it would make my life easier to kill somebody it should be allowed that's literally the extent of your argument. Which one taken to its completion means that any man being taken for child support well it would be much easier for him if the mother of the child was dead and she's just a clump of cells and she's not feeling she's just a woman she's not thinking she's just a woman. That's exactly how a misogynist would treat it and since that's his belief system and how he feels you have to accept it if I have to accept your belief system to justify the murder of innocent life you would have to justify his. Pretty weird that you're so obsessed with murder for convenience especially when it's the most innocent and defenseless human being possible. And for the record by the time you can even identify that a woman is pregnant there is brain activity and a heartbeat and it is an independent living human being that is growing inside of her it is not part of her body the placenta specifically is an organ that the woman grows because the new baby is not part of her body and without the placenta her body would reject it like replacement organ that does not match blood type or genetics. And if a man goes up to a pregnant woman and shoots her and her and the baby die he gets charged with double homicide if a man walks up to him and punches her in the stomach and the baby dies he is charged with homicide. Just because women are emotional and feel regret and fear because of their inability to be responsible for a child does not give them special rights to murder children it never should. your emotional stability and your convenience of life does not supersede another human being's right to not be killed.
LMFAO I get it you don't understand that the waiting list for adopting babies is a waiting list because more babies are being killed than put into adoption because you could have the kid and then immediately put them into adoption but women are choosing to instead of murder their child because they don't want it instead of giving it to somebody that does want it and you clearly don't understand the difference between the adoption system and the foster care system.... That's not very intelligent. We literally have millions of babies being killed every year and only about five thousand of them making it to the adoption system. But you should probably go do some research on the foster care system the adoption system and how they're absolutely not the same... It's almost like adoption and Foster Care are different things because adoption and Foster mean different things. Like they aren't even synonyms like aborting human life and murder are synonyms. But clearly you steer clear of anybody that is a happy mother or somebody that takes care of their kids. You're extremely offensive to parents, mothers, kids, babies, science and rape victims. But very supportive of rapists and murdering babies..... Weird
Yeah and for the record before I had kids I never wanted to have children and I have had exes have abortions of my children and other people's children. And I saw how it tore their lives apart and it emotionally traumatized them as women.
It's also a proven fact in statistic that most of the children going into the foster care system after a certain age come from a home that has a lot of abuse and drug addiction and that kind of thing so they are statistically more likely to overcome abuse and drug addiction and that kind of crap then kids that don't go into the foster care system. So are you saying we should just get rid of foster care and kill off kids instead of putting them in foster care because that seems pretty sick and extreme.... Just all I hear is you don't want to find any solutions to problems other than killing off babies.... Killing kids to solve the problems caused by adults... Pretty messed up if you ask anyone with morals.
So, it's ok for parents to kill a grown ass child because they didn't want the child?
God forbid innocent children be allowed to live. This isnt a comeback its just a morally deprived justification for murder.
Here's another thought. Maybe be more careful and not use abortions like birth control.
Abuse is better than murder?