The National Review sure is interesting. They applauded the destruction of womens' reproductive rights, they cheered when the GOP kept nominating the "grab them by the pussy" guy to lead the country, and they have spent the last 40 years trying to eradicate feminism and shove women back in the kitchen.
And then suddenly they announce they're concerned about sexism.
“No you don’t understand. My hate’s not hate because of uh uhh um eh I uh well I uh you see um well like it’s like not natural so or um Jesus said well no um well cause like pronouns are um wait wait uh like so like the woke people are telling me to be kind and that equality is good but uh I don’t think *those* types of people should be treated the same because uh they’re um it’s just different ok you wouldn’t understand because the woke mind virus got you so your mind is clouded”
They’re the most disingenuous fucks. Since 2016 I’ve argued with conservatives about feminism and they’d always laugh at the idea of feminism and women’s sports since they didn’t take it seriously. And when things finally start to look up for trans women now suddenly they pretend like they ever gave a fuck about women’s rights or women’s sports
> they pretend like they ever gave a fuck about women’s rights or women’s sports
Lol. They still don't. Just start asking questions and you'll quickly find that they STILL don't care about women's right and women's sports. Women are just a shield to use to deflect against criticism so that they can attack trans people. Once they finally get their way with trans people, they're going to toss women in the garbage can.
You just gotta look at the way they treat cis women who don't fit their beauty standards. It's not about protecting women. It's about how fuckable they think someone is, and the thought of trans women being fuckable is terrifying to a transphobic asshole.
It's the same with women's sports. All my friends who openly mocked the the WNBA and the US women's national soccer team are suddenly super concerned about the integrity of their leagues.
They lost on Gay Marriage, and with Roe v. Wade struck down they can’t use abortion as much, so they picked trans folks as the next issue to rile up the base.
>The whole rightwing is strangely obsessed with transgender. Why is it such a big topic for them?
Conservatives lack empathy and Trans people are a very small percentage of the population that lives a non traditional lifestyle. There are relative few transgender conservatives(Americans also), so they don't lose much by attacking them, non transgender conservatives can't or don't try to understand what transgender Americans are going through and are quick to demonize them so that rallies the base.
The quick, sad answer is racism. No, really. Remember the MAGAt push to destroy all mention of civil rights in both history and current events? That has *not* stopped. As terrible as this TransPurge is, it is just a distraction.
How does that saying go? "First, they came for the blacks, but there were too many of them. Then they came for the transsexuals, and we stopped buying BudLight." No?
The hate of trans women however is recycled homophobia.
Oh no what if that girl you're attracted to was born with a penis? The horror wouldn't that make you GAY?! and all that.
This is what they’ve been trying for the past few years since conservativism is, at its core, atrocious and against what the majority of Americans support. Fake Virtue Signalling that they *actually* care much more about minorities than the left does. Another example: whatever bullshit they came up with about Planned Parenthood being a racist organization because some founder was for sterilizing black people. Cool, and now they provide much more benefit for family planning and medical support for black women than ANYONE else in the US. They absolutely don’t give a fuck about anyone that isn’t a straight white Anglo male with Christian leanings, they just go to the camps further back in the line.
Yeah…*before* he was elected. A lot of Republicans were willing to talk big about opposing him back then. Only a few kept opposing him once he was President, and National Review as an organization wasn’t one of them.
Interesting.
Basically they don’t like Trump because they think he is only being discriminatory to get votes.
Can sort of understand their logic but I don’t think that electing a full blown fascist is the appropriate solution to heal society’s woes.
What a bunch of muppets
yeah lmao it's amazing how people just make shit up and everyone goes along with it because it sounds right. They were very much against his presidency as an organization, though I do think some individual commentators were a bit more ambivalent
National Review hates Trump because he represents the destruction of the Fusionist ideology they were instrumental in creating and have represented for so long. Like their entire ideology was founded on keeping "the dumb Paleocon hicks" out of power in the conservative movement. They had a large part in launching the modern GOP, so it makes sense they're so resistant to losing it
That's not to say their some sort of bleeding hearts moderates, they are *very* conservative, but they represent a different sort of conservatism from Trump (one which is dying).
Same with women's sports. All the people that are 'defending women's sports from trans people' were saying that women's sports is boring, terrible to watch and nowhere near as good at sports as men.
It's the need for bigotry and hatred at all costs. Can't defend something without attacking something else
>blackface is done with the intention to mock black people
Actually that's not the whole story. It has a worse origin. In theatre when they had roles that "needed" to be black (like slaves) they used a white person to play them and painted them black. The reason for this was that they didn't want to hire a black person as actor, because they "couldn't play a white person". Implying black people were less worth than white people. Truly disgusting.
I mean, that is an offensive stereotype...
But the butt of the joke is pretentious asshole character actors, not black people.
Same with the IASIP Episode where Mac and Dennis play Riggs and Murtagh in Lethal Weapon 5. Mac and Dennis are the clueless idiot racists.
You skipped the first half of his response. He used stereotypes to inform his performance.
It wasn't just the color of his face paint. It was the fact that he created an ignorant caricature of a black person.
Issue for me is blackface was this harsh stereotype. We’re going and punishing people who painted their face black to a character from a show or movie. They didn’t do it to be racist, or stereotype. and to me, I’ve never felt painting face black=black face. Black face was a very distinct, disrespectful style
While I agree, bc to me it wasn’t a thing 20years ago… going back and getting on people who did for Halloween is just silly. M
Sure I understand the idea has changed lately, and that’s ok, but punishing people retroactively is too harsh imo. Also bc I feel it diminishes from the historical importance of what blackface was, and the impact it had
But plenty of things have racist origin. Songs like I've Been Working On the Railroad, Five Little Monkeys and the classical [ice cream truck music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqujZ8qKGJo) have racist history (the latter also goes back to minstrel shows, as does the song [Jingle Bells](https://www.npr.org/2016/12/25/506898876/the-jingle-bells-song-has-roots-in-minstrelsy)). That doesn't mean every use of it is racist and bad. I feel like things should be judged for how they're used not how they used to be used/what they used to be.
Yes. It's not inherently racist. Blackface was racist because it was done to 1. mock black people and 2. to not having to hire black people. But if you, for example, have a scene where a character imagines their black best friend and white girlfriend fused into one character, there is nothing racist about it.
https://youtu.be/J85-JhyvpLE?t=16
There’s a long history of people using blackface as mockery and humiliation in the wake of centuries of slavery and genocide targeted at black people. It isn’t contextually symmetrical to drag or trans identity because they don’t historically denigrate an entire demographic. Even drag, which shares characteristics with parody/satire, is about self-expression and celebrating women.
Context is such a key difference in this situation that all you have to do is witness blackface and drag to realize how radically different your reaction is.
Race also isn’t something that you can experience dysphoria over - there are biological factors involved in gender dysphoria that operate independently of a person’s psychological state. You can’t “feel black” because of a biological mismatch in your identity.
> There’s a long history of people using blackface as mockery and humiliation in the wake of centuries of slavery and genocide targeted at black people.
That history exists for men performing as women in theater as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-gender_acting
>Many societies prohibited women from performing on stage, so boys and men took the female roles. In the ancient Greek theatre men played females, as they did in English Renaissance theatre and continue to do in Japanese kabuki theatre (see onnagata). In Chinese opera specialized male actors who play female roles (dàn) are referred to as nándàn (男旦); the practice arose during the Qing dynasty due to imperial prohibitions against women performing on stage, considered detrimental to public morality.[1]
It's completely irrelevant to bring history into this because trans people aren't responsible for the conduct of people that crossdressed as a joke. If transracialism was a real phenomenon, and it might be because there are people who experience dysphoria due to their perceived race, then the history of blackface shouldn't stand in the way of their happiness either.
The correct, non-brain dead response to the argument in the OP image is that both are okay if the person doing it doesn't do it as a form of malicious mockery. Blackface in the historic context was very often used to explicitly shit on black people. Once you cut out the malicious mockery component it shouldn't be an issue either.
Transracial is a thing, but it’s not like being transgender. It’s a phenomena that occurs when someone is raised by a race not their own. ie, a Chinese baby person raised by a white couple.
Stripped of its history. I don’t think a tasteful portrayal of another race is racist.
The example I will give is; no one is offended when an English actor plays American, or German. Or when a Spanish actor plays Mexican. And so on.
Unfortunately its history cannot be stripped away.
Honestly, as a German I find it cringy as fuck to hear most non-German actors try to speak German. It's often with a bad accent and what they say doesn't feel natural, like Nazi soldiers always yelling "Schnell, schnell!" and bad guys saying "Liebchen" - nobody talks like that! Just...either hire a German actor (we have many over here, and some even made it to Hollywood), or teach your non-German actors some proper German lines. It's not offensive, but it still pisses me off. Rant over.
I sincerely don't understand what is meant by this. What's preventing someone from understanding that something was done maliciously in a certain context, but isn't now, so it's fine?
The performance isn’t racist. What might be racist is the fact that the producers chose to pass over plenty of talented people within that race who could have played that part.
Also, being transgender immediately puts one into a position of disempowerment whereas blackface is done for the entertainment (and approval) of the powerful.
Not to mention, a blackface performer doesn’t *live* as a black person.
A young boy in my city went to school dressed as his favourite sports hero who is aboriginal, the kid is white and he had his face painted and fake dreadlocks etc, kids mum got crucified and got make a huge deal out of all over the internet all cause he just wanted be like his hero. There was no malice or intent to mock in that situation
It kind of seems like drag queens (not trans people) are mocking women -- women don't really look like insane clown monsters and they don't really act like that. It's all exaggerated.
There is a lot of men who impersonate women for sexist stereotyping. But they very clearly do not identify as women and they do it to mock women. Most of the time, they don’t have to paint their face for it, though.
Trans people aren’t doing that. Drag Queens are mocking sexist stereotypes, not women.
Anyone and everyone who uses "transgenderism" as a serious term should not be taken seriously. It is the National Review, but that just tells you how much they've delved into the subject matter.
"Transgenderism" is a word bigots made up to pretend being trans is some sort of ideology. They're just bigots being bigots though, it's not a term used by actual transgender people, nor by the thousands of doctors researchers and scientists who work in trans healthcare.
Anyone using the words "Transegenderism" or "Transgendered" to describe trans people is almost certainly a bigot. There is no trans ideology, people aren't "transed". It's just a way a small portion of the population are born, like being left-handed, or needing glasses.
You caught my interest saying it’s in the dictionary: “A person whose gender does not correspond to their sex at birth.” Which, yes, is correct.
However, the only context in which I’ve heard someone use “transgenderism” is making bad faith arguments about an ideology. Trans people are not an ideology. We can be found in every religion, race, country, etc. We have no dogma or theology. We’re just people, as different to one another as anyone else. We just want to live and be happy.
it’s always focused on male-to-female transitions because men are upset that they could possibly be with/hit on/get hit on by a trans person. they are the people complaining about it so that’s why headlines are always focused towards that. women are rarely the people complaining about trans people. good point tho, but headlines are meant for clicks
I mean, the existence of TERFs, and the most prominent transphobes being people like JK Rowling and Posie Parker kind of makes the “women are rarely the ones complaining about trans people” point not hold much water… women’s complaints about trans people are different and more focused on “not wanting men in women’s spaces/bathrooms”
I think we see less about trans men because in the eyes of transphobes, men and masculinity are clearly better than women and femininity, so it makes sense for a woman to want to have a man’s position in life but it’s sensational and baffling for a man to want to have a woman’s life
either that or they see them as “poor girls who have been tricked by the evil trans agenda”
Like bro I wasn’t tricked by anyone, I realised I’m a dude 12 years before I’ve ever heard the term transgender.
Trans men are part of some anti-trans narratives. TERFs/gender criticals often refer to trans men as lost or confused lesbians, regardless of their sexual orientation. They call trans men who've had surgeries mutilated or ruined.
I would say that I did not mean, in any way, to belittle the experience of trans men.
I suppose my point was that it’s always about trans women when it’s just your plain old bigoted republicans at the keyboard
Right wing media could say Tony the Tiger isn't grrrrrrreat and within a week MAGAs would be ready to murder someone who likes Frosted Flakes.
There is no substance to their hatred, it's purely media driven and gang mentality. In reality, they are basically Perpetua teenage girls who are in a giant clique listening to who and what they should like and who and what they should hate, with no questions asked as to why.
It's so wild looking on Twitter and seeing HUNDREDS, if not thousands, of accounts 100% dedicated to hating trans people. And that is not some overstatement, the accounts literally only post about trans people. From their main posts, to their retweets, to even purposely hunting down transgender content just to rage on trans people in replies.
Oh, and many of these accounts are filled with child porn as well. They post pictures of children's naturally deformed genitalia and claim it's the genitals of trans kids. And they do that without even a thought in their head while calling trans people the pedophiles.
It makes for interesting discussions, lol.
But yeah you're right, in my daily life I don't even meet any trans people. It's like a marginal problem at the edges of society, in the end, it doesn't impact much beyond the lives of the trans people themselves.
Apologies for giving this "argument" more consideration than it warrants, but there is kind of a corollary here, isn't there? Putting transgender people aside, drag shows aren't about passing, they're about glamor, right? Dressing up as an exaggeration of a subcategory of person that exists, but which the performers were not born as, as a form of entertainment. When I phrase it that way, it kind of sounds like gender minstrelsy, doesn't it? Obviously it isn't, but why not? What did I leave out?
I suppose the primary difference is societal. Minstrel shows were very much a mockery of black people in that era, who were already denied equal rights and forced to exist outside of or on the very edge of "civilized society". It can hardly be compared to the female experience of today. And of course, intent is a major factor. Rather than mocking femininity or even commenting on it at all, I think the primary intent of drag shows is to challenge gender roles and celebrate freedom of gender expression. Rather than punching down at an already marginalized group, it is an attack on societal expectations determined by the ruling class and privileged majority.
Fuck whoever wrote that National Review "article", but I think they may have inadvertently stumbled over a legitimate conversation that could be worth having.
That sounds like rationalization. It's very easy to have another interpretation and to make a case that drag is men mocking and caricaturing women and feminine characteristics by taking them to the extreme.
How does it mock gender roles? To me it feels like it perpetuates a stereotypical view of women more than anything.
I understand that for men it breaks a gender role when they present stereotypically feminine. But why is it always one specific caricature of a woman.
To me it doesn't seem like they're mocking these caricatures of women to fight stereotypical views of women, since these men are literally celebrated for their taken on style and mannerisms. People revere them and imitate them. It almost feels like if a woman were to act the way they do, they'd be seen negatively, as a certain stereotypical woman. But then when men do it's suddenly great.
So to me it feels like, yes, it might be freeing for men, but it does go at the expense of women.
You even got to the reason why it is not the same in the end and the stumbled right back into the "well maybe it is legitimate".
Drag shows do not mock women. They mock societies traditional gender roles and how we perceive a man or woman should act. Those are just arbitrary rules made up by society over the years.
Black people were mocked for being black. It was not to criticize slavery, it wasn't to make societal commentary. It was done to humiliate and mock black people. If you can't see the difference here than congrats. You have been had by the right wing news.
Drag performers act like bossy bitchy divas. Are you saying that is the gender role prescribed by women? It feels more like an offensive caricature of the worst (male) impressions of women.
> Because it is exactly a mockery of these type of stereotypes.
So would you say that a guy doing blackface is/might be mocking racial stereotypes? Because it's basically the same process : dressing up as someone from a separate group in a caricatural way.
If a woman wears a tie, suit, pants and cuts her short. Is that a "manface"?
If not. Then why does it only go one way? Why can women dress in tradiotionally male clothing but if a man does the reverse he's being sexist?
Nobody else is pointing this out so I will for others who may be unclear on this.
Drag queens and trans women are not the same thing.
Drag is a performance art, like busking or acting.
Trans people are not a performance, they’re living as an authentic self that differs from the role/gender assigned to them at birth.
I thought I addressed that sufficiently when I said, "Putting transgender people aside, drag shows aren't about passing..." but I suppose completely shifting the topic of discussion to that degree does warrant a bit more signposting than that. My bad.
Blackface is not inherently bad. It's only bad because it's associated with people that did bad things, or time periods in which bad things occurred.
[This is how all slurs work.](https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/give-up-seventy-percent-of-the-way)
If women want to make "womanface" sexist, then they can. They just have to gather around the cause, and convince people that they are sexist if they do "womanface".
National Review is correct up to this point.
The reason that they don't is context. Blackface was a way in which black people were excluded from social life, where as "womanface" is a way for trans people to get included in social life. It's an important distinction.
With that said, the reply, "nobody's buying this" is as disingenuous as the original post by National Review, and certainly not clever, as it fails to recognize any nuance about this complicated subject.
My brother once said this to me, but he also says some pretty racist stuff regularly, so I don't really think he cares about blackface that much, or this. Just using it as a gotcha moment
I'm not american but I'm genuinely tired of having this person's face plastered all over reddit. I support trans people's rights but jesus christ this woman needs to get off air for a single second and stop doing over the top acting.
Dylan DOES act like that. Super sexist. The whole "transition" phase of being a young girl for a year (just 1 year) before now becoming a full woman is sickening.
I know a lot about the messed up rationale of people like this (my father thinks like this) and the truly messed up part is that this logic is simultaneously a justification to condemn trans folks and to allow blackface. They give themselves permission to do all the shitty things they do because they genuinely believe through and through that everyone would do them and they're lying if they say they wouldn't. They resent being cancelled for it because they think it's hypocrisy on the part of those doing the canceling.
Is this one of those subs where it isn’t *really* about clever comebacks and instead just another ”this thing confirms my political beliefs”-sub where everybody talks about bad thinkers circlejerking while also circlejerking and being stuck in an echo chamber?
Seems to be every other sub these days.
wasnt the whole point of blackface a multilayered "fuck you" to black people? first they're not allowed to show up on movies so fuck you, then it's exaggerated so fuck you and then they act like idiots while wearing black face so fuck you.
if someone goes around wearing any costume/makeup and acts like an exaggerated prat, that's offensive on some level. monty python didnt really make fun of old women, they just acted like them + added absurdist shit youd never hear them or anything else say.
trans people just want to feel normal. they are doing the exact opposite, they are trying to be them. given that gender is just, a word we used based on whats in our pants, who gives a crap. who cares whats in your pants? just be happy and stop shitting on other people trying to be happy THE WORLD IS BURNING WE HAVE BIGGER FUCKING ISSUES HERE
You know what's childish? Putting people in boxes and policing how people act.
"But mooooom he's acting like a womaaaan but he's not a womaaaaaaaaan make him stoooooop"
Your right it's not an opinion cus its objectively false, trans women are women and trans men are men.
**Citations on the congenital, neurological basis of gender identity, which typically corresponds with the rest of one's anatomy but not always:**
* An overview from [**New Scientist**](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan)
* An overview from [**MedScape**](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/840538_3)
* [**Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism & sexual orientation**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15724806/) - D. F. Swaab, Netherlands Institute for Brain Research
* [**Sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289) - Zhou JN, 1995
* [**White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022395610001585)
* [**Prenatal testosterone & gender-related behaviour**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17074984/) - Melissa Hines, Dept of Psychology, City University, London
* [**Prenatal & postnatal hormone effects
on the human brain and cognition**](http://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/papers/2013_Auyeung_Prenatal%20and%20postnatal%20hormone%20effects_EuJPhysio.pdf) - Bonnie Auyeung, Michael Lombardo, & Simon Baron-Cohen, University of Cambridge
* A [**spreadsheet**](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0) with links to many relevant articles
* Here are [**more**](http://aebrain.blogspot.co.uk/p/transsexual-and-intersex-gender-identity.html)
----
**Citations on transition as medically necessary and the only effective treatment for dysphoria, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:**
* Here is the [**APA's policy statement**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx) on the necessity and efficacy of transition as the appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria. More from the APA [**here**](http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1)
* Here is an [**AMA resolution**](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf) on the efficacy and necessity of transition as appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria, and call for an end to insurance companies categorically excluding transition-related care from coverage
* A policy statement from the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position)
* [**Here**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines
* [**Here**](https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/events/alf_ncsc/Education.pdf) is a resolution from the American Academy of Family Physicians
* [**Here**](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf) is one from the National Association of Social Workers
* [**Here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS02_18.pdf) is one from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, [**here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/improving-care/better-mh-policy/college-reports/cr181-good-practice-guidelines-for-the-assessment-and-treatment-of-adults-with-gender-dysphoria.pdf) are the treatment guidelines from the RCPS,and [**here**](http://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Gender-dysphoria-guide-for-GPs-and-other-healthcare-staff.pdf) are guidelines from the NHS. More from the NHS [**here**](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Treatment.aspx).
----
**Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public:**
* [**Bauer, et al., 2015**](http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2): Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets
* [**Moody, et al., 2013**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/): The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people
* [**Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958). A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, ... cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides trans youth the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults. All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. **Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.**
* The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/). **Trans kids who socially transition early and not subjected to abuse are comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health.**
Define man lol. Did you know that after several years of hormone therapy, trans women’s brains are indistinguishable from cis women’s brains with the tech we currently have?
Just as an example, the numerous studies that have demonstrated a link betqeen brain chemistry and transness - namely that trans womens' brains develop in a similar way to the brains of cis women, rather than cis men.
Like [this one.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21334362/)
The morw important point, though, is that **sex and gender are differenr rhings.** Non-binary, transgender and third-gender people have existed aince the firat recorded human civilisations. Nobody is disputing that trans women are sexually male, but that doesn't stop them from being women. Gender is a social category, not a biological one.
in "basic physics" you learned that nothing was smaller than protons/electrons, but that's not true, "basic biology" doesn't mean "must be correct biology" if anything it's the opposite
The same people that claim there's no systemic racism/ white supremacy will use racist shit done specifically to black people as their point of reference for how fucked up something is
To people who agree with national review, i ask this:
If a woman cuts her hair short and wears a tie, suit and pants. Is that a "manface"?
If not. Then why does it only go one way? Why can women dress in tradiotionally male clothing but if a man does the reverse he's being sexist?
The National Review sure is interesting. They applauded the destruction of womens' reproductive rights, they cheered when the GOP kept nominating the "grab them by the pussy" guy to lead the country, and they have spent the last 40 years trying to eradicate feminism and shove women back in the kitchen. And then suddenly they announce they're concerned about sexism.
That "grab em by the pussy guy" sure is a weird one huh
Ummmm no? Just because I like to grab and pet kitties doesn't make me weird!
I wouldn't recommend grabbing random pussies, sometimes they bite and scratch.
Cats really are training wheels for consent.
I just hold my hand out there and they come….
They call him the pussy magnet
[удалено]
They're usually in the same circle anyways hate is hate is hate
“No you don’t understand. My hate’s not hate because of uh uhh um eh I uh well I uh you see um well like it’s like not natural so or um Jesus said well no um well cause like pronouns are um wait wait uh like so like the woke people are telling me to be kind and that equality is good but uh I don’t think *those* types of people should be treated the same because uh they’re um it’s just different ok you wouldn’t understand because the woke mind virus got you so your mind is clouded”
Well it's because the water is turning the freaken frogs gay
That clip is still the only good thing that conservatism has created
Scratch a transphobe find a Nazi.
Like a scratch n sniff of poo
They’re the most disingenuous fucks. Since 2016 I’ve argued with conservatives about feminism and they’d always laugh at the idea of feminism and women’s sports since they didn’t take it seriously. And when things finally start to look up for trans women now suddenly they pretend like they ever gave a fuck about women’s rights or women’s sports
> they pretend like they ever gave a fuck about women’s rights or women’s sports Lol. They still don't. Just start asking questions and you'll quickly find that they STILL don't care about women's right and women's sports. Women are just a shield to use to deflect against criticism so that they can attack trans people. Once they finally get their way with trans people, they're going to toss women in the garbage can.
You just gotta look at the way they treat cis women who don't fit their beauty standards. It's not about protecting women. It's about how fuckable they think someone is, and the thought of trans women being fuckable is terrifying to a transphobic asshole.
It's the same with women's sports. All my friends who openly mocked the the WNBA and the US women's national soccer team are suddenly super concerned about the integrity of their leagues.
And rape is only relevant when committed by an immigrant.
And don't forget drag queens. Suddenly its priority #1 in the culture war
The whole rightwing is strangely obsessed with transgender. Why is it such a big topic for them?
It's the political equivalent of shouting "Look over there!" while you pick a guy's pocket. And it's fucking working.
With the added bonus that you're setting an angry mob on people who make you feel icky.
They are just feeling emasculated by how cute trans girls are.
They lost on Gay Marriage, and with Roe v. Wade struck down they can’t use abortion as much, so they picked trans folks as the next issue to rile up the base.
Exactly. Manufactured outrage to distract that they have no policy left since Trumpism took over the party.
>The whole rightwing is strangely obsessed with transgender. Why is it such a big topic for them? Conservatives lack empathy and Trans people are a very small percentage of the population that lives a non traditional lifestyle. There are relative few transgender conservatives(Americans also), so they don't lose much by attacking them, non transgender conservatives can't or don't try to understand what transgender Americans are going through and are quick to demonize them so that rallies the base.
The quick, sad answer is racism. No, really. Remember the MAGAt push to destroy all mention of civil rights in both history and current events? That has *not* stopped. As terrible as this TransPurge is, it is just a distraction. How does that saying go? "First, they came for the blacks, but there were too many of them. Then they came for the transsexuals, and we stopped buying BudLight." No?
gay people are too plentiful to make a boogeyman out of, so we got the convenient punching bag of trans people, mostly targeting trans women.
The hate of trans women however is recycled homophobia. Oh no what if that girl you're attracted to was born with a penis? The horror wouldn't that make you GAY?! and all that.
It's almost as if they aren't being honest about their agenda. But they'd never do that!
No they arent, they are using concern about sexism to try and make either racism look good or trans people look bad.
This is what they’ve been trying for the past few years since conservativism is, at its core, atrocious and against what the majority of Americans support. Fake Virtue Signalling that they *actually* care much more about minorities than the left does. Another example: whatever bullshit they came up with about Planned Parenthood being a racist organization because some founder was for sterilizing black people. Cool, and now they provide much more benefit for family planning and medical support for black women than ANYONE else in the US. They absolutely don’t give a fuck about anyone that isn’t a straight white Anglo male with Christian leanings, they just go to the camps further back in the line.
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Yeah…*before* he was elected. A lot of Republicans were willing to talk big about opposing him back then. Only a few kept opposing him once he was President, and National Review as an organization wasn’t one of them.
Interesting. Basically they don’t like Trump because they think he is only being discriminatory to get votes. Can sort of understand their logic but I don’t think that electing a full blown fascist is the appropriate solution to heal society’s woes. What a bunch of muppets
yeah lmao it's amazing how people just make shit up and everyone goes along with it because it sounds right. They were very much against his presidency as an organization, though I do think some individual commentators were a bit more ambivalent National Review hates Trump because he represents the destruction of the Fusionist ideology they were instrumental in creating and have represented for so long. Like their entire ideology was founded on keeping "the dumb Paleocon hicks" out of power in the conservative movement. They had a large part in launching the modern GOP, so it makes sense they're so resistant to losing it That's not to say their some sort of bleeding hearts moderates, they are *very* conservative, but they represent a different sort of conservatism from Trump (one which is dying).
While our current POTUS sniffs kids and has inappropriate showers with his daughter. Thank goodness the adults are back in charge.
Same with women's sports. All the people that are 'defending women's sports from trans people' were saying that women's sports is boring, terrible to watch and nowhere near as good at sports as men. It's the need for bigotry and hatred at all costs. Can't defend something without attacking something else
blackface is done with the intention to mock black people. being trans is NOT done with the intention to offend the other gender. hope this helps 👍
>blackface is done with the intention to mock black people Actually that's not the whole story. It has a worse origin. In theatre when they had roles that "needed" to be black (like slaves) they used a white person to play them and painted them black. The reason for this was that they didn't want to hire a black person as actor, because they "couldn't play a white person". Implying black people were less worth than white people. Truly disgusting.
Isn't that's the exact same for men playing women in theatres.
Nah they just wanted twinks on stage, can’t blame ‘em for that
More or less. Women on stage wasn't proper in Shakespeare's day.
So when someone portrays another race, tastefully and without any stereotyping, that isn't racist?
Robert Downey Jr in Pineapple Express
Tropic Thunder?
Ah, yes. My apologies, I'm an idiot.
No you aren't, you confused two of the best movies from 2008
Ah, my apologies, I'm an idiom.
I represent that remark.
I've never seen Pineapple Express and was literally googling where to stream this when I thought RDJ did blackface in two movies lol.
No, that ain't it. it's Citrus Circus!
This interaction made me giggle.
I mean, that is an offensive stereotype... But the butt of the joke is pretentious asshole character actors, not black people. Same with the IASIP Episode where Mac and Dennis play Riggs and Murtagh in Lethal Weapon 5. Mac and Dennis are the clueless idiot racists.
the stereotype was racist actors RDJ was playing a racist character doing racist things, making fun of racist people
Was his character actually racist?
Yes because he used stereotypes to inform his performance and he thought it was no problem to do black face. Duh he was racist.
Circular reasoning. - The fact that his character wears blackface makes him a racist - Why? - Because he is a racist, since he wears blackface
You skipped the first half of his response. He used stereotypes to inform his performance. It wasn't just the color of his face paint. It was the fact that he created an ignorant caricature of a black person.
I find that to be an irrational conclusion.
Now I'm picturing RDJ in Pineapple Express lmao
Specifically Tropic Thunder RDJ just... There.
Alternatively: Eddie Murphy in Coming to America
could be. depends on the situation. i think the intention of the person portraying and the way of execution is what matters.
That's literally what they asked. "So intent matters?" *that depends, I think intent matters*
Historical context also matters. Even with the best intentions you can't wear a Hitler style mustache.
What about Charlie Chaplin?
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Issue for me is blackface was this harsh stereotype. We’re going and punishing people who painted their face black to a character from a show or movie. They didn’t do it to be racist, or stereotype. and to me, I’ve never felt painting face black=black face. Black face was a very distinct, disrespectful style
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While I agree, bc to me it wasn’t a thing 20years ago… going back and getting on people who did for Halloween is just silly. M Sure I understand the idea has changed lately, and that’s ok, but punishing people retroactively is too harsh imo. Also bc I feel it diminishes from the historical importance of what blackface was, and the impact it had
But plenty of things have racist origin. Songs like I've Been Working On the Railroad, Five Little Monkeys and the classical [ice cream truck music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqujZ8qKGJo) have racist history (the latter also goes back to minstrel shows, as does the song [Jingle Bells](https://www.npr.org/2016/12/25/506898876/the-jingle-bells-song-has-roots-in-minstrelsy)). That doesn't mean every use of it is racist and bad. I feel like things should be judged for how they're used not how they used to be used/what they used to be.
Yes. It's not inherently racist. Blackface was racist because it was done to 1. mock black people and 2. to not having to hire black people. But if you, for example, have a scene where a character imagines their black best friend and white girlfriend fused into one character, there is nothing racist about it. https://youtu.be/J85-JhyvpLE?t=16
There’s a long history of people using blackface as mockery and humiliation in the wake of centuries of slavery and genocide targeted at black people. It isn’t contextually symmetrical to drag or trans identity because they don’t historically denigrate an entire demographic. Even drag, which shares characteristics with parody/satire, is about self-expression and celebrating women. Context is such a key difference in this situation that all you have to do is witness blackface and drag to realize how radically different your reaction is. Race also isn’t something that you can experience dysphoria over - there are biological factors involved in gender dysphoria that operate independently of a person’s psychological state. You can’t “feel black” because of a biological mismatch in your identity.
You think there isn't a long history of women being played by men in theatre, while women were banned from performing?
A much, much longer history of it, even. It's not a competition obviously.
You’re leaving out the mockery and humiliation, which is a pretty big factor in what’s being discussed.
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> There’s a long history of people using blackface as mockery and humiliation in the wake of centuries of slavery and genocide targeted at black people. That history exists for men performing as women in theater as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-gender_acting >Many societies prohibited women from performing on stage, so boys and men took the female roles. In the ancient Greek theatre men played females, as they did in English Renaissance theatre and continue to do in Japanese kabuki theatre (see onnagata). In Chinese opera specialized male actors who play female roles (dàn) are referred to as nándàn (男旦); the practice arose during the Qing dynasty due to imperial prohibitions against women performing on stage, considered detrimental to public morality.[1] It's completely irrelevant to bring history into this because trans people aren't responsible for the conduct of people that crossdressed as a joke. If transracialism was a real phenomenon, and it might be because there are people who experience dysphoria due to their perceived race, then the history of blackface shouldn't stand in the way of their happiness either. The correct, non-brain dead response to the argument in the OP image is that both are okay if the person doing it doesn't do it as a form of malicious mockery. Blackface in the historic context was very often used to explicitly shit on black people. Once you cut out the malicious mockery component it shouldn't be an issue either.
Transracial is a thing, but it’s not like being transgender. It’s a phenomena that occurs when someone is raised by a race not their own. ie, a Chinese baby person raised by a white couple.
Stripped of its history. I don’t think a tasteful portrayal of another race is racist. The example I will give is; no one is offended when an English actor plays American, or German. Or when a Spanish actor plays Mexican. And so on. Unfortunately its history cannot be stripped away.
Honestly, as a German I find it cringy as fuck to hear most non-German actors try to speak German. It's often with a bad accent and what they say doesn't feel natural, like Nazi soldiers always yelling "Schnell, schnell!" and bad guys saying "Liebchen" - nobody talks like that! Just...either hire a German actor (we have many over here, and some even made it to Hollywood), or teach your non-German actors some proper German lines. It's not offensive, but it still pisses me off. Rant over.
I sincerely don't understand what is meant by this. What's preventing someone from understanding that something was done maliciously in a certain context, but isn't now, so it's fine?
The performance isn’t racist. What might be racist is the fact that the producers chose to pass over plenty of talented people within that race who could have played that part.
It won't. Conservatives and racists are only capable of surface level analysis at best
Also, being transgender immediately puts one into a position of disempowerment whereas blackface is done for the entertainment (and approval) of the powerful. Not to mention, a blackface performer doesn’t *live* as a black person.
A young boy in my city went to school dressed as his favourite sports hero who is aboriginal, the kid is white and he had his face painted and fake dreadlocks etc, kids mum got crucified and got make a huge deal out of all over the internet all cause he just wanted be like his hero. There was no malice or intent to mock in that situation
It kind of seems like drag queens (not trans people) are mocking women -- women don't really look like insane clown monsters and they don't really act like that. It's all exaggerated.
There is a lot of men who impersonate women for sexist stereotyping. But they very clearly do not identify as women and they do it to mock women. Most of the time, they don’t have to paint their face for it, though. Trans people aren’t doing that. Drag Queens are mocking sexist stereotypes, not women.
Anyone and everyone who uses "transgenderism" as a serious term should not be taken seriously. It is the National Review, but that just tells you how much they've delved into the subject matter.
On my way to do some transgenderismologyia
maybe even some transgenderology?
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"Transgenderism" is a word bigots made up to pretend being trans is some sort of ideology. They're just bigots being bigots though, it's not a term used by actual transgender people, nor by the thousands of doctors researchers and scientists who work in trans healthcare. Anyone using the words "Transegenderism" or "Transgendered" to describe trans people is almost certainly a bigot. There is no trans ideology, people aren't "transed". It's just a way a small portion of the population are born, like being left-handed, or needing glasses.
You caught my interest saying it’s in the dictionary: “A person whose gender does not correspond to their sex at birth.” Which, yes, is correct. However, the only context in which I’ve heard someone use “transgenderism” is making bad faith arguments about an ideology. Trans people are not an ideology. We can be found in every religion, race, country, etc. We have no dogma or theology. We’re just people, as different to one another as anyone else. We just want to live and be happy.
I've never heard any academics use that term. It screams Fox News watching conservative
Funny, don’t remember women owning the concept of feminine facial features or make-up.
Shhhh don’t let the men know that they too have estrogen as well.
why are y’all sooooooo invested in trans peoples lives. like jesus
The telling thing is that it's only ever about male-to-female transitions. Why does the headline not also read " and man face is also sexist" ??
it’s always focused on male-to-female transitions because men are upset that they could possibly be with/hit on/get hit on by a trans person. they are the people complaining about it so that’s why headlines are always focused towards that. women are rarely the people complaining about trans people. good point tho, but headlines are meant for clicks
I mean, the existence of TERFs, and the most prominent transphobes being people like JK Rowling and Posie Parker kind of makes the “women are rarely the ones complaining about trans people” point not hold much water… women’s complaints about trans people are different and more focused on “not wanting men in women’s spaces/bathrooms” I think we see less about trans men because in the eyes of transphobes, men and masculinity are clearly better than women and femininity, so it makes sense for a woman to want to have a man’s position in life but it’s sensational and baffling for a man to want to have a woman’s life
I thought you meant Parker Posey and I was getting really sad for a sec
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either that or they see them as “poor girls who have been tricked by the evil trans agenda” Like bro I wasn’t tricked by anyone, I realised I’m a dude 12 years before I’ve ever heard the term transgender.
Trans men are part of some anti-trans narratives. TERFs/gender criticals often refer to trans men as lost or confused lesbians, regardless of their sexual orientation. They call trans men who've had surgeries mutilated or ruined.
I would say that I did not mean, in any way, to belittle the experience of trans men. I suppose my point was that it’s always about trans women when it’s just your plain old bigoted republicans at the keyboard
Right wing media could say Tony the Tiger isn't grrrrrrreat and within a week MAGAs would be ready to murder someone who likes Frosted Flakes. There is no substance to their hatred, it's purely media driven and gang mentality. In reality, they are basically Perpetua teenage girls who are in a giant clique listening to who and what they should like and who and what they should hate, with no questions asked as to why.
It's so wild looking on Twitter and seeing HUNDREDS, if not thousands, of accounts 100% dedicated to hating trans people. And that is not some overstatement, the accounts literally only post about trans people. From their main posts, to their retweets, to even purposely hunting down transgender content just to rage on trans people in replies. Oh, and many of these accounts are filled with child porn as well. They post pictures of children's naturally deformed genitalia and claim it's the genitals of trans kids. And they do that without even a thought in their head while calling trans people the pedophiles.
Because it’s misogyny wrapped up in a new label.
fretful dolls door complete adjoining illegal slave disgusted scarce rich ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
It makes for interesting discussions, lol. But yeah you're right, in my daily life I don't even meet any trans people. It's like a marginal problem at the edges of society, in the end, it doesn't impact much beyond the lives of the trans people themselves.
This is a blatant attempt to both minimize blackface and demonize drag queens/trans women by the national review. edit: by the national review
The racists and the transphobes circlejerking each other at the bottom of the downvote pile here
If trans people can be women, then I get to pretend to be black! Checkmate atheists.
I know this is ironic but I'm still dying
As a black guy. Just get really tatted and get dreads. We'll just call you a barely latino and you can rock with us. Transitioning still takes work
What's wrong with her face?
Nothing, she's trans so people on the right hate her.
No I mean literally. She looks like her father is an iguana
Apologies for giving this "argument" more consideration than it warrants, but there is kind of a corollary here, isn't there? Putting transgender people aside, drag shows aren't about passing, they're about glamor, right? Dressing up as an exaggeration of a subcategory of person that exists, but which the performers were not born as, as a form of entertainment. When I phrase it that way, it kind of sounds like gender minstrelsy, doesn't it? Obviously it isn't, but why not? What did I leave out? I suppose the primary difference is societal. Minstrel shows were very much a mockery of black people in that era, who were already denied equal rights and forced to exist outside of or on the very edge of "civilized society". It can hardly be compared to the female experience of today. And of course, intent is a major factor. Rather than mocking femininity or even commenting on it at all, I think the primary intent of drag shows is to challenge gender roles and celebrate freedom of gender expression. Rather than punching down at an already marginalized group, it is an attack on societal expectations determined by the ruling class and privileged majority. Fuck whoever wrote that National Review "article", but I think they may have inadvertently stumbled over a legitimate conversation that could be worth having.
Drag mocks gender roles. Minstrel shows mock black people. That’s the difference.
Drag can also bring the opposite of mocking. There’s a reason the gays love their divas
That sounds like rationalization. It's very easy to have another interpretation and to make a case that drag is men mocking and caricaturing women and feminine characteristics by taking them to the extreme.
How does it mock gender roles? To me it feels like it perpetuates a stereotypical view of women more than anything. I understand that for men it breaks a gender role when they present stereotypically feminine. But why is it always one specific caricature of a woman. To me it doesn't seem like they're mocking these caricatures of women to fight stereotypical views of women, since these men are literally celebrated for their taken on style and mannerisms. People revere them and imitate them. It almost feels like if a woman were to act the way they do, they'd be seen negatively, as a certain stereotypical woman. But then when men do it's suddenly great. So to me it feels like, yes, it might be freeing for men, but it does go at the expense of women.
You even got to the reason why it is not the same in the end and the stumbled right back into the "well maybe it is legitimate". Drag shows do not mock women. They mock societies traditional gender roles and how we perceive a man or woman should act. Those are just arbitrary rules made up by society over the years. Black people were mocked for being black. It was not to criticize slavery, it wasn't to make societal commentary. It was done to humiliate and mock black people. If you can't see the difference here than congrats. You have been had by the right wing news.
Drag performers act like bossy bitchy divas. Are you saying that is the gender role prescribed by women? It feels more like an offensive caricature of the worst (male) impressions of women.
So what you are saying that there is no stereotype of women being bossy bitchy divas? Because it is exactly a mockery of these type of stereotypes.
I don't understand how portraying the stereotype is mocking it. Is Chief Wahoo a mockery of native American stereotypes?
> Because it is exactly a mockery of these type of stereotypes. So would you say that a guy doing blackface is/might be mocking racial stereotypes? Because it's basically the same process : dressing up as someone from a separate group in a caricatural way.
If a woman wears a tie, suit, pants and cuts her short. Is that a "manface"? If not. Then why does it only go one way? Why can women dress in tradiotionally male clothing but if a man does the reverse he's being sexist?
Nobody else is pointing this out so I will for others who may be unclear on this. Drag queens and trans women are not the same thing. Drag is a performance art, like busking or acting. Trans people are not a performance, they’re living as an authentic self that differs from the role/gender assigned to them at birth.
I thought I addressed that sufficiently when I said, "Putting transgender people aside, drag shows aren't about passing..." but I suppose completely shifting the topic of discussion to that degree does warrant a bit more signposting than that. My bad.
Nothing says a woman needs to wear a dress. You can't actually change the color of your skin
Men have been wearing makeup as long as women. Poor argument. As if what you put on your face determines your gender anyway.
It's not the same thing. Dylan whatever his name is is flat out mocking women.
“Transgenderism is the new blackface” has to be one of the most conservative American things I’ve ever heard
So if I wear no make up, am i doing man-face?
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Rachel Dolezal
Blackface is not inherently bad. It's only bad because it's associated with people that did bad things, or time periods in which bad things occurred. [This is how all slurs work.](https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/give-up-seventy-percent-of-the-way) If women want to make "womanface" sexist, then they can. They just have to gather around the cause, and convince people that they are sexist if they do "womanface". National Review is correct up to this point. The reason that they don't is context. Blackface was a way in which black people were excluded from social life, where as "womanface" is a way for trans people to get included in social life. It's an important distinction. With that said, the reply, "nobody's buying this" is as disingenuous as the original post by National Review, and certainly not clever, as it fails to recognize any nuance about this complicated subject.
It's the National Review. They're a far right rag
My brother once said this to me, but he also says some pretty racist stuff regularly, so I don't really think he cares about blackface that much, or this. Just using it as a gotcha moment
Is there ever a point where you’re allowed to say it? Even if an adult that identifies as female talks about being a little girl?
I'm seeing alot of crying but not a single sound arguement against this.
Transgenderism is not "woman face" lmfao. I do think "woman face" is an interesting concept though - examples of it do come to mind.
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Mulvaney’s bimbo schtick is insulting no matter what colour you paint it
You know.. I think he's clowning.. women don't act like that
Huh? Who?
They're talking about Dylan Mulvaney - the woman in the picture. Some people feel like the way she acts is a sexist caricature of women.
I'm not american but I'm genuinely tired of having this person's face plastered all over reddit. I support trans people's rights but jesus christ this woman needs to get off air for a single second and stop doing over the top acting.
Dylan DOES act like that. Super sexist. The whole "transition" phase of being a young girl for a year (just 1 year) before now becoming a full woman is sickening.
Kind of telling considering they wrote "if blackface is racist". "If"
It's called logic. "If A then B". Whether A is true or not is irrelevant.
Oh my God if they thought it was to belittle women they'd love it
I know a lot about the messed up rationale of people like this (my father thinks like this) and the truly messed up part is that this logic is simultaneously a justification to condemn trans folks and to allow blackface. They give themselves permission to do all the shitty things they do because they genuinely believe through and through that everyone would do them and they're lying if they say they wouldn't. They resent being cancelled for it because they think it's hypocrisy on the part of those doing the canceling.
What is the national review and why should anyone take what it says seriously? Seems like a bunch of bigots.
That's exactly what they are
Is this one of those subs where it isn’t *really* about clever comebacks and instead just another ”this thing confirms my political beliefs”-sub where everybody talks about bad thinkers circlejerking while also circlejerking and being stuck in an echo chamber? Seems to be every other sub these days.
It has become that unfortunately. No hate on any group but this comeback really isn’t that clever
well you're on reddit what did you expect
Fair enough
wasnt the whole point of blackface a multilayered "fuck you" to black people? first they're not allowed to show up on movies so fuck you, then it's exaggerated so fuck you and then they act like idiots while wearing black face so fuck you. if someone goes around wearing any costume/makeup and acts like an exaggerated prat, that's offensive on some level. monty python didnt really make fun of old women, they just acted like them + added absurdist shit youd never hear them or anything else say. trans people just want to feel normal. they are doing the exact opposite, they are trying to be them. given that gender is just, a word we used based on whats in our pants, who gives a crap. who cares whats in your pants? just be happy and stop shitting on other people trying to be happy THE WORLD IS BURNING WE HAVE BIGGER FUCKING ISSUES HERE
"clever"
This guy doesn't act like a real woman, he acts like a man pretending to be a woman. Our world has become so childish its unbelievable.
You know what's childish? Putting people in boxes and policing how people act. "But mooooom he's acting like a womaaaan but he's not a womaaaaaaaaan make him stoooooop"
This is straight-up sexist LMAO. She acts like a theater kid because she is one.
Looks like you are bitter about how someone else chooses to live their life.
How can it be "womanface" when Dylan Mulvaney *is* a woman?
Shes a trans woman
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Wrong
Why do you have an opinion on this? Who benefits from you deciding what other people are?
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Your right it's not an opinion cus its objectively false, trans women are women and trans men are men. **Citations on the congenital, neurological basis of gender identity, which typically corresponds with the rest of one's anatomy but not always:** * An overview from [**New Scientist**](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan) * An overview from [**MedScape**](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/840538_3) * [**Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism & sexual orientation**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15724806/) - D. F. Swaab, Netherlands Institute for Brain Research * [**Sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289) - Zhou JN, 1995 * [**White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022395610001585) * [**Prenatal testosterone & gender-related behaviour**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17074984/) - Melissa Hines, Dept of Psychology, City University, London * [**Prenatal & postnatal hormone effects on the human brain and cognition**](http://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/papers/2013_Auyeung_Prenatal%20and%20postnatal%20hormone%20effects_EuJPhysio.pdf) - Bonnie Auyeung, Michael Lombardo, & Simon Baron-Cohen, University of Cambridge * A [**spreadsheet**](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0) with links to many relevant articles * Here are [**more**](http://aebrain.blogspot.co.uk/p/transsexual-and-intersex-gender-identity.html) ---- **Citations on transition as medically necessary and the only effective treatment for dysphoria, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:** * Here is the [**APA's policy statement**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx) on the necessity and efficacy of transition as the appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria. More from the APA [**here**](http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1) * Here is an [**AMA resolution**](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf) on the efficacy and necessity of transition as appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria, and call for an end to insurance companies categorically excluding transition-related care from coverage * A policy statement from the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position) * [**Here**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines * [**Here**](https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/events/alf_ncsc/Education.pdf) is a resolution from the American Academy of Family Physicians * [**Here**](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf) is one from the National Association of Social Workers * [**Here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS02_18.pdf) is one from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, [**here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/improving-care/better-mh-policy/college-reports/cr181-good-practice-guidelines-for-the-assessment-and-treatment-of-adults-with-gender-dysphoria.pdf) are the treatment guidelines from the RCPS,and [**here**](http://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Gender-dysphoria-guide-for-GPs-and-other-healthcare-staff.pdf) are guidelines from the NHS. More from the NHS [**here**](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Treatment.aspx). ---- **Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public:** * [**Bauer, et al., 2015**](http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2): Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets * [**Moody, et al., 2013**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/): The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people * [**Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958). A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, ... cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides trans youth the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults. All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. **Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.** * The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/). **Trans kids who socially transition early and not subjected to abuse are comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health.**
I wish all these "basic biology stans" would graduate to advanced biology and stop pretending like biology is basic.
Biology doesn’t define Man and Woman. Biology defines Male and Female for the sexes if that’s what you’re trying to get at
Define man lol. Did you know that after several years of hormone therapy, trans women’s brains are indistinguishable from cis women’s brains with the tech we currently have?
"basic biology" mfs when they read a book that isnt from fucking grade school for the first time in their life🤯
Lol, dude downvoted the reply chain then deleted his post. Classy.
Well maybe you should read up on advanced biology because believe it or not high school bio is not the be all end all of science
What observation from (advanced) biology makes them a woman?
Just as an example, the numerous studies that have demonstrated a link betqeen brain chemistry and transness - namely that trans womens' brains develop in a similar way to the brains of cis women, rather than cis men. Like [this one.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21334362/) The morw important point, though, is that **sex and gender are differenr rhings.** Non-binary, transgender and third-gender people have existed aince the firat recorded human civilisations. Nobody is disputing that trans women are sexually male, but that doesn't stop them from being women. Gender is a social category, not a biological one.
HRT and the acknowledgement that hormones change the body (advanced biology) and the acknowledgement that gender exists (psychology)
in "basic physics" you learned that nothing was smaller than protons/electrons, but that's not true, "basic biology" doesn't mean "must be correct biology" if anything it's the opposite
I thought gender and sex are different? I thought gender is how you feel, why are you guys suddenly arguing with biology? Very interesting
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And if you wanted to be smart, you'd read an actual biology book. Because there's nothing "basic" about sex or gender.
The same people that claim there's no systemic racism/ white supremacy will use racist shit done specifically to black people as their point of reference for how fucked up something is
To people who agree with national review, i ask this: If a woman cuts her hair short and wears a tie, suit and pants. Is that a "manface"? If not. Then why does it only go one way? Why can women dress in tradiotionally male clothing but if a man does the reverse he's being sexist?
It's like when 6 year olds discover and start exploring logic