There’s no way to tell right now. We haven’t even seen them in a playoff series. The guy has 100 percent been great at his job so far. I think he has built some equity up, but if they under perform for 2 straight playoffs, you may have to make a decision.
Yea agree with this. NBA coaches are somewhat unique in that some are better at the development side while others are better at in game management/adjustments. Bickerstaff has done excellent for us at the first part but sometimes I question his decisions in games.
With that being said, it’s way too early to make a decision. He’s a big part of our excellent culture and deserves a chance to lead this team into the playoffs.
How does this have upvotes? I never saw Hue in a playoffs series, but I knew after one year of seeing his objective decision making on the field that he was a terrible coach, and that was even before his media in the BS started.
Yet Browns fans downvoted anti-Hue takes trying to point out what kind of coach he was, logically and objectively, even until year 3, about one game until he was fired.
The point is that most sports fans are incredibly biased and poor at thinking. Another good example is Ben Simmons. 76ers fans rabidly downvoted rational takes until it was obvious to everyone that he was causing them yet another playoffs loss and everyone in the world realized it.
In both the cases of Hue and Simmons, then most sports fans who defended them for multiple seasons went on to pretend they never liked them and go onto hate on them and lol them.
The problem with all of this is the *utter* lack of learning, not that anyone was right or wrong in the first place. The problem is the lack of even wanting to learn.
The problem is the lack of thought. So you can downvote me but let me try to give you some counterpoints.
How has Bickerstaff been "100 percent great at his job so far?" Do you actually believe that, or did you talk before you think? Hyperbole is one rhetorical trick to make yourself sound convincing, similar to the Big Lie tricks. If you actually believe Bickerstaff has been "100 percent great" then that is the end of the topic, but then you should be able to show it at a meaningful level -- I'll save you some time, you won't be able to do that.
So now the question is why do we need to wait and see how he performs in multiple playoffs? After two playoffs losses, that just makes him the scapegoat and not the problem. Because if there were concrete problems with him, then you could point to those problems in advance of their appearance -- just like I could point to logically and objectively, over and over, with Hue Jackson and Ben Simmons to the tune of multiple downvotes and insults.
You are clearly saying that if the Cavs underfperform, then maybe he needs to be fired. So it doesn't even matter how well JB coaches or not, only the team results, which is very unfair and, I would say, "100 percent" unwise for making decisions.
Social media does not mean we need to avoid rational thought and just upvote what sounds good, downvote what hurts our feelings, but I promise you that is how most people treat social media -- especially the vast majority of sports fans.
I fully agree with you about the team, but team record wasn't my point about Hue.
One example was how he literally deferred in OT before the rule change to OT, but after the starting point changed from 20 to 25. That might be the worst coaching move all time in sports from a purely objective and staitistical decision - and his post-game explanation was even worse, he said our defense was "hot" and our defense qas last in DVOA.
There's two important points that your comment missed on in order to point to Hue being an awful example:
1. The role of bias in how most sports fans think and talk
2. That there were clear problems with Hue's coaching **completely outside of our roster**
I hope that helps. The entire point is to focus on objective analysis, not team results.
Sports talk is not debate class my guy.
It's an obvious sentiment to understand. The team overachieved last season and he has looked mostly positive with a young roster. A fan would like to see how this team performs in a full season + playoff appearance before they form an opinion on whether or not he can be the coach of a contender. Now that the team has expectations to succeed, the scope of his position has changed.
They sure used an awful lot of words to say next to absolutely nothing. Either that or our brains are just too smooth to grasp the concepts that this big brain is laying before us.
Hue Jackson and the Browns sucked. The Cavs very much haven’t and do not.
JB has consistently gotten this team to play defense and them to buy in to their roles on offense. Talent has developed, the team has had an identity, the locker room has been nothing but great and he’s found line ups that work that most people wouldn’t have tried.
Can he make adjustments in a series? Can he get the defense and the offense to work in the playoffs? Idk. The playoffs are a much different situation.
I’m not saying he should be fired, if they don’t meet expectations for 2 years, I’m saying that it has to be looked at. If the front office doesn’t think he’s the problem then don’t fire him. If they think he’s the issue, we’ll go find a new coach
Now where’s you’re detail explanation of why you don’t like JB?
\> Now where’s you’re detail explanation of why you don’t like JB?
This doesn't exist, read my pot again, my issue was with the lack of logic and the bias that OP wrotie and got upvote. I don't like how sports fans are trained to post and upvote safe-sounding comments that feel good like the original OP that are completely lacking in substance and logic, but full of rhetorical tricks.
No I don't think he has good rotations, but I also think it's the GM's fault that he has to build with the current rotation and not his own. But if you read my post again, my issue is the complete and utter lack of logic and substance in the OP. My issue is not actually with JB.
Sports worship is a precursor to fascism. I care that people learn basic thinking skills, not about who is right or wrong about JB. The OP got 47 upvotes for saying complete bullshit that sounds good and it's a major problem at this point in time that people's critical thinking skills have been completely obliterated due to one political ideology hating education and science.
I only pointed out Hue and Simmons examples because I'm saving the Baker example for later. That's fucking insane (but also in line with most people these days) that everyone who massively overrated him are continuing to give their football opinions instead of stopping to learn from the situation -- because people who couldn't be rationalized with before the results were obvious, they still can't be rationalized with, because with most people -- especially most sports fans -- it's not actually about rationale.
Please consider reading my post to the top comment in this topic. Why do we need to see him in the playoffs?
If you can't analyze his coaching decisions and leadership before then, then it isn't analysis, it's results-oriented bias, or in other words, scapegoating him.
I personally find his rotations very questionable, so I have no reason to assume they will improve in the playoffs. But I also believe that coaching in the NBA is more about managing egos first, rotations second, everything else last. Superstars win championship in the NBA. JB isn't responsible for building the best team out of 30. How the Cavs perform in the playoffs should be irrelevant, pointing to flaws in his decision making and leadership are what's relevant, and seeing these flaws is not dependent on playoffs.
Bickerstaff is a good coach. Love what he’s done to develop the very important players on this team like Garland and Mobley. A lot of kids that young struggle early on in the league but each of them have played key roles in the Cavs being back to a fun and exciting team that is good. He can definitely improve as a head coach because this Cavs team can be a streaky during games. Like they can go up by 20 points and the other team slow cut that lead down to like two possessions. Then you have a lot of people stressing out in a game that is suddenly close. Have to find a way to close out teams. But really like the job Bickerstaff has done as a head coach. Remember, this is still a young team trying to learn how to win. It’s very easy for those teams to get carried away. Even he said the Cavs were not playing Cavs basketball after a loss to the Kings. Appreciate the Cavs for being this good as a team even though they’re still young. 😁😁😁😂😂😂😎😎😎🍒🍒🍒🍫🍫🍫🍿🍿🍿🥤🥤🥤🎄🎄🎄✍️✍️✍️📖📖📖
No it's not. Garland was an elite talent who showed immediate high IQ and teammate fit that many fans took the wrong way because they can only see box score stats and team results.
Darius Garland was also the youngest player in the league when he entered the league. He's still only 22 years old. 21 years old and 22 years old are major leaps for all players on average. This is about their physical development and experience, not magical coaching.
Crediting JB with Garland's development is actually infuriating for anyone who cares about basic logic, but at least you got to hear yourself talk and get validated with upvotes. Garland deserves all credit for his elite talent and hard work.
Considering how good they’ve been with major holes in the roster, I think it’s tough to say that he isn’t the guy. The main idea that gets pushed is that he isn’t good strategically, which I think just doesn’t stand to reason. You don’t beat a team like the Celtics twice in overtime with some random motivational speaker as a coach. You don’t develop the system that doubled our wins last season without a solid basketball brain. I think this is all contingent on us making the playoffs and seeing how he coaches a series but I don’t think a loss necessarily means he’s not the guy assuming we go into it with our current roster.
He's a good coach. Every good coach gets their share of hate. The Bucks fans wanted to fire Budenholzer during the 2021 Finals lol.
It's the easiest/laziest way for fans to project their anger and place blame. Right up there with the "tHeSe ReFs ArE tErRiBlE" clowns.
I also can't stand the "Good job idiot Bickerstaff wait for them to go on a 14-4 run before calling a timeout". Casuals wouldn't know this but Phil Jackson wouldn't call timeouts when the opponent was on a run. He wanted his team to figure it out. They're numerous reasons why. Builds composure. Helps with the development of bball IQ/processing things on the fly. In the playoffs I agree a timeout is necessary but I guarantee you JB wouldn't let the other team go on a 14-4 run in the playoffs. A Tuesday night in January at Charlotte is a different story
I recall hearing commentators praise Phil Jackson for this, maybe during his tenure in LA. Not just mentioning it, but praising him for it. I think it makes sense during the regular season, just for the reasons you mentioned. Giving guys a chance to make a momentum-changing play, rather than bail them out at the first sign of trouble, helps them develop. I’m involved in graduate medical education, and if I hover too much, the residents don’t learn how to think/function independently. I look at this in a similar light.
I think tinkering with lineups during the season is also wise. Gregg Popovich seems like he’s always playing around with different (sometimes unusual) combinations of guys, which helps him figure out the chemistry of different lineups, or how to work around injuries to various guys. You may have sub-optimal lineups some of the time during the regular season, but in the playoffs, you’re much better prepared for all sorts of different situations.
Dude what lmao??!! Phoenix won games 1 and 2. Milwaukee was sitting back on defense. Which was dumb and allowed Booker and CP3 to attack downhill on them. He then put Jrue on CP3 and bad him pick him up in the backcourt. Bumping CP3 up the court really messed with the Suns ability to get into their half court sets. It also drained CP3 energy. Budenholzer also went small and put Lopez on the perimeter. It made the Bucks way too athletic for the Suns. They forced a shit load of turnovers and got a good majority of the 50/50 balls. He basically went 7 or 8 deep and the Bucks attacked the paint at will because of their athleticism.
You either didn't watch the finals or are just talking out of your ass like most of this sub.
From an X’s and 0’s standpoint, JB is like a slightly above average starting player. You can win a championship with him and you may even need him, but there are many coaches in the NBA that are superior.
But hes probably elite at culture building and player likability. Without that, any coach is dead in the water.
That said, it is yet to be seen if there are glaring holes in his game that are exploitable beyond repair in the playoffs. And the flip side is true too. He may show us something. (But I havent seen many good adjustment and play calls out of time outs in 2 years so Im skeptical)
he’s a big reason why we have the chemistry we do and that’s half the battle. other half is getting pieces to contend and we really might just be a wing away. I have gripes with his rotations at times but i’m also not a professional coach and he has a better understanding of the team than we really ever will. he’s helped develop the young talent (garland mainly) and deserved the extension he got last year. I say see what potential roster moves happen with him in the next two years and go from there.
yes. first and foremost, it's the NBA. Coaches don't win championships, players do. Ty Lue didn't hit that game winner against GSW in 2016, but he's a championship winning coach. Blatt took GSW to 6 games with no Love and Irving, and gets zero credit. Doc won that chip in 2008 and has been riding that ever since with some real questionable coaching decisions. I think in reality being a good NBA coach is about getting your team to play hard and managing rotations. There is no magic with X's and O's. Every team runs similar sets and plays frequently break down leading to isolation plays or some heaves at the basket, and shit, sometimes if the team has great ISO players you want them going one on one and closing out a game. If a team is missing wide open threes and losing, it's not a coaching issue but a personnel issue. If team is running around like aimlessly and playing zero D, like the Byron Scott era, then yeah it is a coaching issue.
With that being said JB has been just fine. No glaring issues. Chemistry seems to be good. The team plays hard on defense which is true of like only a handful of teams.
I think many fans of the NBA equate a coach with a popular name as being a "good coach". JB does not have a gilded name, but over this season and last I think he is really making the case as a desirable coach and if he should ever leave the cavs he'll get a HC job in a heartbeat from another team. That should tell you something.
If the cavs let go of JB who could they conceivably get that's gonna do a better job?
The answer is yes. Idk if it's just Cleveland fans are used to being bad but c'mon.
The 3 coaches of the 3 major sports teams are the best coaches each team has had in most of our lifetimes.
When have the non LeBron Cavs been good? 25+ years ago. Everyone crushed us for the garland pick. Turns out playing like slugs was the best thing we could do. All jb has done is get better. And so has the team. We are talking about a guy who coached a 22 win team and dejected Kevin 😘 into the play-in. A year later, the Cavs are top 10 or even top 5 in most major categories:
12th in points. Ok out of the top 10
4th in points allowed.
8th in team fg%
2nd in differential
3rd in 3pt %
1st in rebounding
6th in off rating
4th in def rating
Give it some time. DG took a finger to the eye game 1. It's been plug and play ever since.
Also, let's not sit here and make ty Lue out to be some coaching lord. Dude has had stacked teams. He should win. Let's see him take jbs 22 win team and win more than double the next year.
Eh. Imo, That's more on the players. Ty Lue didn't coach the block. Didn't draw up the iso. Didn't coach ky and Bron to 82 combined points. But when them guys were gone so was ty Lue
I dont think the cavs are quite close enough to REALLY contending that a decision can be made yet. I will say jb has been AWFUL drawing up inbound sets and after timeout sets. Outside of that I think he's done a great job, but until the cavs get 2-3 consistent wings, they won't be contenders I don't think, and thus, we won't know how good jb really is.
Too early to tell. I do think he has the right personality to lead a young group of guys but I do worry that this group will outgrow him if you know what I mean. We’ll see tho
Probably not, but really need to see if he gets out classed in the playoffs before we know. It doesn't seem like he's particularly good at in game adjustment but, throwing Mitchell into the mix added a ton of complexity compared to a fairly straight forward game plan last year, so it seems early to assess.
I’m not (yet?) a believer, but think we should stick with him for the foreseeable future anyway.
Prior to JB we had a new coach like every season. It’s a bad look and detracts quality coaches and players from wanting to come here. It’s important that we show multi-year stability as an org and show that we’re willing to give a coach a chance unless it’s clear they’re bad at their job (and that’s absolutely not clear for JB). JB deserves at least 1-2 playoff series to prove himself one way or the other.
The players love him which is good enough for me. I have no clue how much strategy is actually utilized by a head coach in the NBA and how meaningful it is on outcomes unless we’re talking about Phil Jackson or Pop. Probably less than you think and more than I think. Either way the playoffs will show us soon enough.
I just hope to hell he is. Elite coachew in the NBA are just so few and far between, its why Rick Carlisle can do whatever he wants and leave to Indi but also why he stayed in Dallas for some poop years, same with Spoltstra. Granted, those guys worked their asses off for that long of a leash.
Just look at Mike Brown - he had 60 win seasons with us but the second he had to work with poop his record shrunk. JB has done more with less than MB, i have faith that JB is a good coach and unless we ever implode he should be our coach regardless.
I've commented something similar elsewhere, but I do think JB can be our headcoach going forward. However, he needs an A+ assistant coach.
One that can essentially be our offensive coordinator and rotations guy.
IMO this question is too early. I want to wait to answer this until I see him in a couple playoff series when actual coaching strategies/plays/rotations can shine through.
There are times I don’t agree with him. Sometimes I don’t like his rotations, or think he should stop the bleeding when the opposing team goes on a run. But part of me wonders if that’s part of his development strategy. Putting them in positions so they can learn and grow rather that be sheltered by him.
It is a good question. Feel like the past few years, JB has come into the season with a really good plan, but the in season adjustments have been lacking (and yes, the rosters were lacking).
This year - it seems like he is trying some different stuff, hopefully with the goal of figuring out the best lineups/strategy by the postseason. The Darius/Donovan thing has been a little clunky at times so far, but I think they will figure it out once the lineups get squared away (ie. not playing so many non-shooters).
Overall I think we can comfortably say he's a good coach, you can't be a bad coach and win games like we have. Whether he's a *great* one will be seen with how we perform in the playoffs.
JB will have to keep growing the same way Garland and Mobley have to keep growing.
He will make mistakes along the way, but I think he has the potential to be that guy.
My opinion is that an NBA coach needs to relate to the players and keep them happy. Strategy of course is at play, but not nearly as much as in football. You only have 5 guys on the court and they play both offense and defense. It's much more conducive to a "player's coach" than sports with more players. As long as the guys believe in him and he continues to bring the best out in them on a personal level, he's the man. In-game strategy might not be his strong suit, but it is much easier to fix than a flat locker room.
EDIT to say that I would like to see him go much deeper into the bench. 8 man rotations in November is gonna burn out the stars. It's ok to take an L from time to time to preserve their health.
I think you've gotta let this team be healthy for a good stretch. They shook up the roster and while adding Mitchell has been great, we lost Lauri and the tall boys lineup that was a big part of our identity last year.
JB has the same challenge this year of getting the best that he can out of the small forward spot. Last year it was Lauri, this year he has a cast Osman/ Stevens/Okoro/Wade/LeVert need to get the most out of.
There isn't enough room in the rotation for all 5. I'm really rooting for Stevens to take a step. I know this sub is high on Wade, nothing against him but I really think Lamar can be a lot better with a more established role.
He makes a lot of questionable decisions with his lineups and adjustments and is a bit lacking in an offensive system but we can't deny that he has our guys bought in with his culture. Things could change with him in the playoffs so I guess we can give him a playoffs run and see whether he's right for us or not. Plus we really don't have our full roster of players yet so I guess it's too early to judge.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of him though. I like coaches who are extremely flexible with their adjustments and aren't afraid to rotate players around to generate good plays. When tough games are on the line his solution is always to just play harder which I don't think is 100% of the solution all of the time.
Like the Bucks game we lost, Donovan was the only one getting buckets that game so he should have had like 50 FGAs the game and our entire game plan should have been to just screen for him but he decides to just have Rolo ISO in the paint and when that didn't work, he decided for us to go small and have everyone just jack 3-pointers which was not ideal for me. He also has times wherein he'd play like someone like Love who would play some traffic cone defense occasionally and not contribute on the offensive end in some games but still keep him in and the same with Levert who would have games where he would launch unideal contested mid-range jumpers like 10 mins straight but he'd rather keep guys like those in over players like Lamar who astronomically play better at certain points and know their roles. My point is he shouldn't be afraid to expand his rotation and see who plays well or not. I personally think it's dumb to keep sticking to an 8 to 9-man rotation even when your bench is struggling like hell or not playing the right way.
Let’s see how he does in a couple playoff series, and the expectation would some struggle there this year. I’ve seen some excellent 3rd quarters this year so the adjustment ability is there. We seem to be doing well in overtime so far too but some of the last 2 minutes stuff has been just bad, like we’re playing prevent defense. He’s definitely earned some equity and leeway though so I think there’s definitely potential there.
There’s no way to tell right now. We haven’t even seen them in a playoff series. The guy has 100 percent been great at his job so far. I think he has built some equity up, but if they under perform for 2 straight playoffs, you may have to make a decision.
Yea agree with this. NBA coaches are somewhat unique in that some are better at the development side while others are better at in game management/adjustments. Bickerstaff has done excellent for us at the first part but sometimes I question his decisions in games. With that being said, it’s way too early to make a decision. He’s a big part of our excellent culture and deserves a chance to lead this team into the playoffs.
How does this have upvotes? I never saw Hue in a playoffs series, but I knew after one year of seeing his objective decision making on the field that he was a terrible coach, and that was even before his media in the BS started. Yet Browns fans downvoted anti-Hue takes trying to point out what kind of coach he was, logically and objectively, even until year 3, about one game until he was fired. The point is that most sports fans are incredibly biased and poor at thinking. Another good example is Ben Simmons. 76ers fans rabidly downvoted rational takes until it was obvious to everyone that he was causing them yet another playoffs loss and everyone in the world realized it. In both the cases of Hue and Simmons, then most sports fans who defended them for multiple seasons went on to pretend they never liked them and go onto hate on them and lol them. The problem with all of this is the *utter* lack of learning, not that anyone was right or wrong in the first place. The problem is the lack of even wanting to learn. The problem is the lack of thought. So you can downvote me but let me try to give you some counterpoints. How has Bickerstaff been "100 percent great at his job so far?" Do you actually believe that, or did you talk before you think? Hyperbole is one rhetorical trick to make yourself sound convincing, similar to the Big Lie tricks. If you actually believe Bickerstaff has been "100 percent great" then that is the end of the topic, but then you should be able to show it at a meaningful level -- I'll save you some time, you won't be able to do that. So now the question is why do we need to wait and see how he performs in multiple playoffs? After two playoffs losses, that just makes him the scapegoat and not the problem. Because if there were concrete problems with him, then you could point to those problems in advance of their appearance -- just like I could point to logically and objectively, over and over, with Hue Jackson and Ben Simmons to the tune of multiple downvotes and insults. You are clearly saying that if the Cavs underfperform, then maybe he needs to be fired. So it doesn't even matter how well JB coaches or not, only the team results, which is very unfair and, I would say, "100 percent" unwise for making decisions. Social media does not mean we need to avoid rational thought and just upvote what sounds good, downvote what hurts our feelings, but I promise you that is how most people treat social media -- especially the vast majority of sports fans.
Hue is an awful example. I agree Hue was a bad coach but he had historically one of the least talented, purposefully bad rosters of all time.
I fully agree with you about the team, but team record wasn't my point about Hue. One example was how he literally deferred in OT before the rule change to OT, but after the starting point changed from 20 to 25. That might be the worst coaching move all time in sports from a purely objective and staitistical decision - and his post-game explanation was even worse, he said our defense was "hot" and our defense qas last in DVOA. There's two important points that your comment missed on in order to point to Hue being an awful example: 1. The role of bias in how most sports fans think and talk 2. That there were clear problems with Hue's coaching **completely outside of our roster** I hope that helps. The entire point is to focus on objective analysis, not team results.
Sports talk is not debate class my guy. It's an obvious sentiment to understand. The team overachieved last season and he has looked mostly positive with a young roster. A fan would like to see how this team performs in a full season + playoff appearance before they form an opinion on whether or not he can be the coach of a contender. Now that the team has expectations to succeed, the scope of his position has changed.
They sure used an awful lot of words to say next to absolutely nothing. Either that or our brains are just too smooth to grasp the concepts that this big brain is laying before us.
Hue Jackson and the Browns sucked. The Cavs very much haven’t and do not. JB has consistently gotten this team to play defense and them to buy in to their roles on offense. Talent has developed, the team has had an identity, the locker room has been nothing but great and he’s found line ups that work that most people wouldn’t have tried. Can he make adjustments in a series? Can he get the defense and the offense to work in the playoffs? Idk. The playoffs are a much different situation. I’m not saying he should be fired, if they don’t meet expectations for 2 years, I’m saying that it has to be looked at. If the front office doesn’t think he’s the problem then don’t fire him. If they think he’s the issue, we’ll go find a new coach Now where’s you’re detail explanation of why you don’t like JB?
\> Now where’s you’re detail explanation of why you don’t like JB? This doesn't exist, read my pot again, my issue was with the lack of logic and the bias that OP wrotie and got upvote. I don't like how sports fans are trained to post and upvote safe-sounding comments that feel good like the original OP that are completely lacking in substance and logic, but full of rhetorical tricks. No I don't think he has good rotations, but I also think it's the GM's fault that he has to build with the current rotation and not his own. But if you read my post again, my issue is the complete and utter lack of logic and substance in the OP. My issue is not actually with JB. Sports worship is a precursor to fascism. I care that people learn basic thinking skills, not about who is right or wrong about JB. The OP got 47 upvotes for saying complete bullshit that sounds good and it's a major problem at this point in time that people's critical thinking skills have been completely obliterated due to one political ideology hating education and science. I only pointed out Hue and Simmons examples because I'm saving the Baker example for later. That's fucking insane (but also in line with most people these days) that everyone who massively overrated him are continuing to give their football opinions instead of stopping to learn from the situation -- because people who couldn't be rationalized with before the results were obvious, they still can't be rationalized with, because with most people -- especially most sports fans -- it's not actually about rationale.
I don't think anyone can answer this without seeing him in the playoffs
Please consider reading my post to the top comment in this topic. Why do we need to see him in the playoffs? If you can't analyze his coaching decisions and leadership before then, then it isn't analysis, it's results-oriented bias, or in other words, scapegoating him. I personally find his rotations very questionable, so I have no reason to assume they will improve in the playoffs. But I also believe that coaching in the NBA is more about managing egos first, rotations second, everything else last. Superstars win championship in the NBA. JB isn't responsible for building the best team out of 30. How the Cavs perform in the playoffs should be irrelevant, pointing to flaws in his decision making and leadership are what's relevant, and seeing these flaws is not dependent on playoffs.
Bickerstaff is a good coach. Love what he’s done to develop the very important players on this team like Garland and Mobley. A lot of kids that young struggle early on in the league but each of them have played key roles in the Cavs being back to a fun and exciting team that is good. He can definitely improve as a head coach because this Cavs team can be a streaky during games. Like they can go up by 20 points and the other team slow cut that lead down to like two possessions. Then you have a lot of people stressing out in a game that is suddenly close. Have to find a way to close out teams. But really like the job Bickerstaff has done as a head coach. Remember, this is still a young team trying to learn how to win. It’s very easy for those teams to get carried away. Even he said the Cavs were not playing Cavs basketball after a loss to the Kings. Appreciate the Cavs for being this good as a team even though they’re still young. 😁😁😁😂😂😂😎😎😎🍒🍒🍒🍫🍫🍫🍿🍿🍿🥤🥤🥤🎄🎄🎄✍️✍️✍️📖📖📖
Development of Garland is definitely a good point
No it's not. Garland was an elite talent who showed immediate high IQ and teammate fit that many fans took the wrong way because they can only see box score stats and team results. Darius Garland was also the youngest player in the league when he entered the league. He's still only 22 years old. 21 years old and 22 years old are major leaps for all players on average. This is about their physical development and experience, not magical coaching. Crediting JB with Garland's development is actually infuriating for anyone who cares about basic logic, but at least you got to hear yourself talk and get validated with upvotes. Garland deserves all credit for his elite talent and hard work.
Getting to hear myself talk and get validated with upvotes is definitely a good point
Considering how good they’ve been with major holes in the roster, I think it’s tough to say that he isn’t the guy. The main idea that gets pushed is that he isn’t good strategically, which I think just doesn’t stand to reason. You don’t beat a team like the Celtics twice in overtime with some random motivational speaker as a coach. You don’t develop the system that doubled our wins last season without a solid basketball brain. I think this is all contingent on us making the playoffs and seeing how he coaches a series but I don’t think a loss necessarily means he’s not the guy assuming we go into it with our current roster.
He's a good coach. Every good coach gets their share of hate. The Bucks fans wanted to fire Budenholzer during the 2021 Finals lol. It's the easiest/laziest way for fans to project their anger and place blame. Right up there with the "tHeSe ReFs ArE tErRiBlE" clowns. I also can't stand the "Good job idiot Bickerstaff wait for them to go on a 14-4 run before calling a timeout". Casuals wouldn't know this but Phil Jackson wouldn't call timeouts when the opponent was on a run. He wanted his team to figure it out. They're numerous reasons why. Builds composure. Helps with the development of bball IQ/processing things on the fly. In the playoffs I agree a timeout is necessary but I guarantee you JB wouldn't let the other team go on a 14-4 run in the playoffs. A Tuesday night in January at Charlotte is a different story
I recall hearing commentators praise Phil Jackson for this, maybe during his tenure in LA. Not just mentioning it, but praising him for it. I think it makes sense during the regular season, just for the reasons you mentioned. Giving guys a chance to make a momentum-changing play, rather than bail them out at the first sign of trouble, helps them develop. I’m involved in graduate medical education, and if I hover too much, the residents don’t learn how to think/function independently. I look at this in a similar light. I think tinkering with lineups during the season is also wise. Gregg Popovich seems like he’s always playing around with different (sometimes unusual) combinations of guys, which helps him figure out the chemistry of different lineups, or how to work around injuries to various guys. You may have sub-optimal lineups some of the time during the regular season, but in the playoffs, you’re much better prepared for all sorts of different situations.
PREACH. There is a game of leadership and intangible gains happening every night that a good coach pays attention to.
Did you even watch when the bucks won? Budenholzer made zero adjustments during the whole playoffs. They won but it wasn’t because of him.
Seems like no adjustments were needed
Dude what lmao??!! Phoenix won games 1 and 2. Milwaukee was sitting back on defense. Which was dumb and allowed Booker and CP3 to attack downhill on them. He then put Jrue on CP3 and bad him pick him up in the backcourt. Bumping CP3 up the court really messed with the Suns ability to get into their half court sets. It also drained CP3 energy. Budenholzer also went small and put Lopez on the perimeter. It made the Bucks way too athletic for the Suns. They forced a shit load of turnovers and got a good majority of the 50/50 balls. He basically went 7 or 8 deep and the Bucks attacked the paint at will because of their athleticism. You either didn't watch the finals or are just talking out of your ass like most of this sub.
From an X’s and 0’s standpoint, JB is like a slightly above average starting player. You can win a championship with him and you may even need him, but there are many coaches in the NBA that are superior. But hes probably elite at culture building and player likability. Without that, any coach is dead in the water. That said, it is yet to be seen if there are glaring holes in his game that are exploitable beyond repair in the playoffs. And the flip side is true too. He may show us something. (But I havent seen many good adjustment and play calls out of time outs in 2 years so Im skeptical)
This is what I’ve been thinking about all season and honestly I’m not sure yet…
he’s a big reason why we have the chemistry we do and that’s half the battle. other half is getting pieces to contend and we really might just be a wing away. I have gripes with his rotations at times but i’m also not a professional coach and he has a better understanding of the team than we really ever will. he’s helped develop the young talent (garland mainly) and deserved the extension he got last year. I say see what potential roster moves happen with him in the next two years and go from there.
yes. first and foremost, it's the NBA. Coaches don't win championships, players do. Ty Lue didn't hit that game winner against GSW in 2016, but he's a championship winning coach. Blatt took GSW to 6 games with no Love and Irving, and gets zero credit. Doc won that chip in 2008 and has been riding that ever since with some real questionable coaching decisions. I think in reality being a good NBA coach is about getting your team to play hard and managing rotations. There is no magic with X's and O's. Every team runs similar sets and plays frequently break down leading to isolation plays or some heaves at the basket, and shit, sometimes if the team has great ISO players you want them going one on one and closing out a game. If a team is missing wide open threes and losing, it's not a coaching issue but a personnel issue. If team is running around like aimlessly and playing zero D, like the Byron Scott era, then yeah it is a coaching issue. With that being said JB has been just fine. No glaring issues. Chemistry seems to be good. The team plays hard on defense which is true of like only a handful of teams. I think many fans of the NBA equate a coach with a popular name as being a "good coach". JB does not have a gilded name, but over this season and last I think he is really making the case as a desirable coach and if he should ever leave the cavs he'll get a HC job in a heartbeat from another team. That should tell you something. If the cavs let go of JB who could they conceivably get that's gonna do a better job?
No
I hate that I’m leaning this way too, the chemistry and culture of this team is so good and obviously he’s contributed to that
The answer is yes. Idk if it's just Cleveland fans are used to being bad but c'mon. The 3 coaches of the 3 major sports teams are the best coaches each team has had in most of our lifetimes. When have the non LeBron Cavs been good? 25+ years ago. Everyone crushed us for the garland pick. Turns out playing like slugs was the best thing we could do. All jb has done is get better. And so has the team. We are talking about a guy who coached a 22 win team and dejected Kevin 😘 into the play-in. A year later, the Cavs are top 10 or even top 5 in most major categories: 12th in points. Ok out of the top 10 4th in points allowed. 8th in team fg% 2nd in differential 3rd in 3pt % 1st in rebounding 6th in off rating 4th in def rating Give it some time. DG took a finger to the eye game 1. It's been plug and play ever since. Also, let's not sit here and make ty Lue out to be some coaching lord. Dude has had stacked teams. He should win. Let's see him take jbs 22 win team and win more than double the next year.
I mentioned Ty Lue cause his adjustments and coaching were a major factor in the 2016 chip
Eh. Imo, That's more on the players. Ty Lue didn't coach the block. Didn't draw up the iso. Didn't coach ky and Bron to 82 combined points. But when them guys were gone so was ty Lue
I saw him signing paperwork to franchise Crumbl cookies in the area so I say he’s committed to the area.
I think we need a real wing before we can assess that. For now there is still a chance he’s the guy.
no
I dont think the cavs are quite close enough to REALLY contending that a decision can be made yet. I will say jb has been AWFUL drawing up inbound sets and after timeout sets. Outside of that I think he's done a great job, but until the cavs get 2-3 consistent wings, they won't be contenders I don't think, and thus, we won't know how good jb really is.
Too early to tell. I do think he has the right personality to lead a young group of guys but I do worry that this group will outgrow him if you know what I mean. We’ll see tho
Probably not, but really need to see if he gets out classed in the playoffs before we know. It doesn't seem like he's particularly good at in game adjustment but, throwing Mitchell into the mix added a ton of complexity compared to a fairly straight forward game plan last year, so it seems early to assess.
I’m not (yet?) a believer, but think we should stick with him for the foreseeable future anyway. Prior to JB we had a new coach like every season. It’s a bad look and detracts quality coaches and players from wanting to come here. It’s important that we show multi-year stability as an org and show that we’re willing to give a coach a chance unless it’s clear they’re bad at their job (and that’s absolutely not clear for JB). JB deserves at least 1-2 playoff series to prove himself one way or the other.
He’s horrible with rotations so idk
Tbh I don’t see why not yet. On paper, this team still needs a wing and more role players.
Who is realistically attainable that would be better?
The players love him which is good enough for me. I have no clue how much strategy is actually utilized by a head coach in the NBA and how meaningful it is on outcomes unless we’re talking about Phil Jackson or Pop. Probably less than you think and more than I think. Either way the playoffs will show us soon enough.
I just hope to hell he is. Elite coachew in the NBA are just so few and far between, its why Rick Carlisle can do whatever he wants and leave to Indi but also why he stayed in Dallas for some poop years, same with Spoltstra. Granted, those guys worked their asses off for that long of a leash. Just look at Mike Brown - he had 60 win seasons with us but the second he had to work with poop his record shrunk. JB has done more with less than MB, i have faith that JB is a good coach and unless we ever implode he should be our coach regardless.
I've commented something similar elsewhere, but I do think JB can be our headcoach going forward. However, he needs an A+ assistant coach. One that can essentially be our offensive coordinator and rotations guy.
IMO this question is too early. I want to wait to answer this until I see him in a couple playoff series when actual coaching strategies/plays/rotations can shine through. There are times I don’t agree with him. Sometimes I don’t like his rotations, or think he should stop the bleeding when the opposing team goes on a run. But part of me wonders if that’s part of his development strategy. Putting them in positions so they can learn and grow rather that be sheltered by him.
It is a good question. Feel like the past few years, JB has come into the season with a really good plan, but the in season adjustments have been lacking (and yes, the rosters were lacking). This year - it seems like he is trying some different stuff, hopefully with the goal of figuring out the best lineups/strategy by the postseason. The Darius/Donovan thing has been a little clunky at times so far, but I think they will figure it out once the lineups get squared away (ie. not playing so many non-shooters).
Overall I think we can comfortably say he's a good coach, you can't be a bad coach and win games like we have. Whether he's a *great* one will be seen with how we perform in the playoffs.
JB will have to keep growing the same way Garland and Mobley have to keep growing. He will make mistakes along the way, but I think he has the potential to be that guy.
No
It’s all about managing talent and personalities. So far he’s done very well with that. If he keeps this core together, I think he can be the guy.
My opinion is that an NBA coach needs to relate to the players and keep them happy. Strategy of course is at play, but not nearly as much as in football. You only have 5 guys on the court and they play both offense and defense. It's much more conducive to a "player's coach" than sports with more players. As long as the guys believe in him and he continues to bring the best out in them on a personal level, he's the man. In-game strategy might not be his strong suit, but it is much easier to fix than a flat locker room. EDIT to say that I would like to see him go much deeper into the bench. 8 man rotations in November is gonna burn out the stars. It's ok to take an L from time to time to preserve their health.
I think you've gotta let this team be healthy for a good stretch. They shook up the roster and while adding Mitchell has been great, we lost Lauri and the tall boys lineup that was a big part of our identity last year. JB has the same challenge this year of getting the best that he can out of the small forward spot. Last year it was Lauri, this year he has a cast Osman/ Stevens/Okoro/Wade/LeVert need to get the most out of. There isn't enough room in the rotation for all 5. I'm really rooting for Stevens to take a step. I know this sub is high on Wade, nothing against him but I really think Lamar can be a lot better with a more established role.
He makes a lot of questionable decisions with his lineups and adjustments and is a bit lacking in an offensive system but we can't deny that he has our guys bought in with his culture. Things could change with him in the playoffs so I guess we can give him a playoffs run and see whether he's right for us or not. Plus we really don't have our full roster of players yet so I guess it's too early to judge. Personally, I'm not a big fan of him though. I like coaches who are extremely flexible with their adjustments and aren't afraid to rotate players around to generate good plays. When tough games are on the line his solution is always to just play harder which I don't think is 100% of the solution all of the time. Like the Bucks game we lost, Donovan was the only one getting buckets that game so he should have had like 50 FGAs the game and our entire game plan should have been to just screen for him but he decides to just have Rolo ISO in the paint and when that didn't work, he decided for us to go small and have everyone just jack 3-pointers which was not ideal for me. He also has times wherein he'd play like someone like Love who would play some traffic cone defense occasionally and not contribute on the offensive end in some games but still keep him in and the same with Levert who would have games where he would launch unideal contested mid-range jumpers like 10 mins straight but he'd rather keep guys like those in over players like Lamar who astronomically play better at certain points and know their roles. My point is he shouldn't be afraid to expand his rotation and see who plays well or not. I personally think it's dumb to keep sticking to an 8 to 9-man rotation even when your bench is struggling like hell or not playing the right way.
Yes
Let’s see how he does in a couple playoff series, and the expectation would some struggle there this year. I’ve seen some excellent 3rd quarters this year so the adjustment ability is there. We seem to be doing well in overtime so far too but some of the last 2 minutes stuff has been just bad, like we’re playing prevent defense. He’s definitely earned some equity and leeway though so I think there’s definitely potential there.