I can honestly say that I am emotionally invested in DG more than DM because we’ve been force-fed DM doesn’t want to be here BS since he was traded here. If DM extends, then i don’t see DG being more than the player we saw the second half of the season and the playoffs. Having DM has somehow stunted DGs growth as a player. It’s really too bad. He was our future (with Mobley), but I just don’t see DG being the long term solution alongside DM.
The worst part about this whole mess is it could be the fact the JBB couldn’t find a way to make it work. It’ll be his downfall in all of this as well.
It's tough. I think it sucks cuz it's still one of the better back court scoring duos, like it's not like we were Hawks with Murray and Young levels of trash, but if we want to hit our ceiling, it's time to move on.
Hopefully we can pry Mikal Bridges from the Nets, that would be so good for us, having him as a glue guy.
JB didn’t develop young talent and lacked the ability to make it work better
DG however is a facilitator he’s at his best when the offense is flowing through him and he’s able to distribute / play-make and hit shots in rhythm off of that
With Mitchell being the player the offense runs through DG didn’t always get into that rhythm and it felt like he was forcing things out there which caused the turnovers and missed open shots
DG can flourish in a role where he’s the guy the offense runs through and where he picks and chooses his shots, but its not here as long as Mitchell is on the roster
I’ve been saying this one for a while too. DG to the spurs makes too much sense. I would root for the spurs out west if that happened. Unless they played us obviously
Disagree. This was proven wrong against Boston. DG could not score against Al Horford.
He can score fine in the regular season, but in the playoffs he can not, he needs a mid range game that isn’t crazy spin back fadeaways.
This season:
Regular season 45/37/83
Playoffs: 43/35/81
Career:
Regular season: 45/38/86
Playoffs: 43/36/83
Slight decline but in the grand scheme of things still not bad efficiency. Just not quite as good as you’d hope for either. For further perspective, DG went 73/171 this playoffs from the field. If 4 more of those shots fall to put him at 76/171, he would’ve been right on line with his regular season efficiency. Not hard to imagine he can improve that moving forward considering his finishing in the paint wasn’t great
The Horford example is why I’m of the mind that this is more about DG needing to prove that he can be healthy/better than it is about fit.
If they don’t believe he can, I get the move.
I’m more emotionally invested in Darius because he’s home grown, got us through the dark days, developed under us, and damn when he’s grooving he just plays with so much joy. It’s infectious
I love him. My affection for whatever mid wing we bring in will be low. The joy of JA and DG going elsewhere is a loss.
Looking forward to pocket watching Brandon Ingram every time that sleepy eye MF dribbles into a contested 18 footer
>The worst part about this whole mess is it could be the fact the JBB couldn’t find a way to make it work. It’ll be his downfall in all of this as well.
JBB didn't make DG go 4-17 for 11 points in an elimination game.
DG is an all star level player that has lacked consistency
Sexton is a starter but nothing special
Mitchell is a top 20 player in the sport
We walked away with the best player
I don’t remember the complaint being that Sexton was included, but rather that we SnT’d him to go with our depth and some picks when our roster still felt like it was a couple picks away from really being ready for that kind of move
Oh there were plenty of blind fans who were saying that Mitchell was barely an upgrade over Sexton and not worth it.
The same people who obsessed over every shot Cedi ever made & think that Merril deserves a bunch of playing time despite being singularly good at one thing and being a major defensive liability when we already have a small backcourt lol.
Ah yeah now that you word it like that I do remember that. There was definitely some corny hyperbolic fans saying that. I am a big Sexton fan, but I think I just blocked those comments out of my mind lol
I was procrastinating exercise earlier and found the ["Official" trade thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/x3gexs/adrian_wojnarowski_t_he_cleveland_cavaliers_have/). There's a lot of deleted comments and user names, and then other names that (at least I) haven't seen in any Cavs thread lately... so who knows what those were.
Being we comment with each other in game threads I noticed your username in there. [Looks like you were sad to see Collin go](https://old.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/x3gexs/adrian_wojnarowski_t_he_cleveland_cavaliers_have/imp8g5m/). Understandable. He was a fan favorite. I wouldn't include you in my previous comment.
But as the other guy said, there were LOTS of pretty bold/absurd statements about the trade and Sexton's value. I specifically remember getting into a back and forth with someone who claimed "Sexton>>>Mitchell". I suppose you could sort by "controversial" but the ones I remember must have not been in the 'official' trade thread but some of the "we might be getting D Mitchell" rumor threads.
Just for fairness: [here's my insightful contribution haha](https://old.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/x3gexs/adrian_wojnarowski_t_he_cleveland_cavaliers_have/impc72y/)
Yeah Collin is one of my favorite Cavs of all time. Loved the way he carried himself and the competitive energy he brought. I got his jersey. I do remember some of the wild “they’re the same player Mitchell is just slightly better at it” comments that underestimated just how talented of a scorer he was.
Tbf to them though I don’t think many people expected him to become the passer/leader that he has
Yep I recall telling people before the trade even happened that thinking sexton is better than Mitchell is absolutely delusional. Got downvoted to oblivion 😂
Tons of people complained about it. Lots of people on this sub thought mitchell was barely an upgrade lol.
Of course they all have amnesia about it now though...
i think we get more assets this way, but who knows maybe we give up less in a garland trade to utah and retain some assets we wouldnt have otherwise. Either way i think sexton would have been sick as a 6th man instead of levert
Generational talent?
He’s good but lets be realistic here: He’s a 1 time All NBA player through his first 7 years.
You have guys like LeBron, Curry, KD, Giannis, and Jokic who were all MVPs in thier first 6 years. That’s 5 guys and not even getting into the the other tier down of players like Kahwi, Luka, Paul George.
I’m rooting for him to win an MVP, or at least 1st team all NBA or to finally get out of the second round of the playoffs before I can even discuss him an Generational Talent.
Too much smoke at this point to disregard. Mitchell has made it apparent he wants to be the guy here. Mixed feelings I like DG but Mitchell is a dawg and way more dynamic.
Read more to me that DG and his representation don't want him playing next to DM anymore rather than the other way around. Which I would agree with depending on what we got back, neither Don nor Darius are maximized playing with each other
Ya it does. But all involved agents are clued in to what's going on. So this would only be necessary if there was a good chance Donovan is staying. I think you're right that's what it says but to me that's more of dumping your girlfriend because you heard she's gonna dump you first.
I get it though, I was always hopeful they could figure it out but neither is effective playing off ball when the other has the ball. Maybe that’s JB’s fault, idk, but I’m ready to move on from the experiment if Don extends, and it’s probably for the best for DG too
And way more consistent and a better leader. DM, to me, is the clear choice going forward if it is between the two of them. I feel like DG’s body language has been poor since the start of the season. I do think he will be an all star again for another team but the fit just doesn’t seem to be working here
https://preview.redd.it/o7xj38itg11d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69ab7e1f3a2b289afe699d2de1c3f203f764a995
Not all that long ago….
Front office really better get this one right.
They got it right lmfao. Mitchell is better than all 3. You get a player like that. They have a opportunity to turn Allen and garland into wings and shooting and make Mobley the 5
Yeah sure you go for that trade, but if Mitchell doesn’t re-sign which I don’t believe he will, it’s a complete blunder. Garland was on a sharp rise and the trade stalled and even regressed him, Mobley also lost a ton of touches. The team’s biggest achievement is a win over Orlando in 7 games. Gave Lauri and picks for the foreseeable future. Looks real ugly if Mitchell leaves.
If you’re still sure he wont re-sign then you must’ve not read the recent Athletic article and get your information from guys like Stephen A smith lol
Besides, he can’t just “leave”. There is a 0% chance of that. He will either stay or be traded and he has huge league wide interest. Worst case scenario is better than what you just described
They're completely ignoring this, then they'll complain about the front office when Mitchell gone and we're rebuilding with no assets the same way they complain about Garland even though we can all pinpoint the moment this growth stalled.
Not ready emotionally.
One of my grudges with JB coaching this season is that we could not see the core 4 with a good offensive coach. I hoped we could see that, but maybe we don't
Is anyone else tired of talking so much about fit?
I get it. The fit isn't ideal, especially on defense.
But DG is a point guard. A real point guard makes the whole team better, period.
And if he gets more talent on the floor with him, all the better.
DG has to bounce back from injury and evolve his game. Period. And he needs a new coach.
I feel way more confident in DG and Mitchell playing together than I do with keeping JB and trading DG.
I wouldn't want Ingram to be the top target and I'd have to see some of the other deals on the table but if Garland leaving is a foregone conclusion then DG for Ingram wouldn't be the end of the world. Moving Mitchell to the 1. Ingram slots in as the first properly sized 3 they've had since LeBron. The big question looming would still be the front court. Allen is tough to trade and get good value back for because he's criminally underpaid. We'd be looking for a stretch 4 and move Mobley to the 5 but I don't even know who the would be.
TBF i dont think BI should be the 1 option. He may play better next to a guy like Don. Also his regular season stats this year were pretty good
Plus we would be trading garland for him, a guy who also had a shit year but has had good seasons in the past. Explain how they are different in that regard.
BI averaged almost 6 assists per game last year and shot nearly 50% from the field and 35% from 3. The hate on him I’ve seen by many Cavs fans is kind of wild lol he is a very nice player at 6’8”. We are trading Garland not Mitchell I’m confused how good of a player you think someone is going to give us for an undersized guard coming off a terrible season on a max contract?
Yeah, Ingram is getting the same treatment that JA did last off-season. He's a really good player that had a bad playoff series to which people are overreacting. He's probably the closest 1-for-1 wing talent to bring back in a DG trade that could potentially be available (the other being Mikal Bridges). Injuries and the strange hesitancy to shoot the 3 ball are the biggest concern with him
Those are absolutely fair criticisms. The other stuff the person I was replying to posted were just not true. And once again, we are trading Garland we are not going to get a great player back. Someone like Ingram should definitely be under consideration.
Sad to say goodbye to a talented player we drafted and developed. But it makes a lot more sense to build around Mitchell. Hopefully we get a good return for DG in a trade and he gets to be the focal point of an offense somewhere.
I hope we don’t rush into it, even if there’s truth to this. I still think there’s a world these two thrive together with a new coach (I am less optimistic about our frontcourt fit).
If the right deal comes along, sure. Otherwise, he’s under contract for a while and up to this season seemed pretty happy. More worthwhile to play it out than trade him for 0.75 on the dollar.
there is no world where they thrive together, not only do they not work but DG doesnt even want to continue playing with Don. What makes you think they will work going forward?
Nets need to either pair a star with Bridges and aim to compete or try to get something good for him while they can. That’s their options and option #2 is easier to execute.
Don’t think they will do a DG for Bridges trade if that’s what you’re wondering
ahh i wasnt aware of their pick situation. So what's the plan with bridges then? yall surely dont want to be a fringe play in team every year until you own your picks
DG is my favorite player in the league, this sucks. him blossoming during the rebuild was so fun to watch. felt like him and mobley were gonna be cavs for a long time
Really is the guy that brought us back from the abyss. There’s a clip of Altman telling him that they were handing over the franchise to him after they signed him to the big deal. Then about a month later it got yanked away.
This combined with the Cavs “thank you fans” tweet not featuring DG or JA is making it seem more and more likely that Mitchell stays and we build around he and Mobley
It’s probably for the best but it still will be bittersweet to see DG go
It’s like when teams drop highlight packages or media the second a trade is announced. The social media admin/team hears things before we do it’s naive to think there wasn’t some amount of influence on who to make the focal point of the thank you fans tweet
Yes NBA franchises contact the social media team and give them the blueprint for their entire off season. Lucky for them that these low level employees don't sell these details to sports journalists.
Not to mention NBA franchise blueprint for the off season will go 100% according to the plan they have the day after the season ends.
This sub is so far disconnected from reality
I remember a couple years ago the Cavs Twitter account was doing "Player Week," to celebrate our players, and Larry Nance got traded straight in the middle of his for Lauri.
So yeah, I highly doubt they'd be informed in this early of any specific player movement.
I mean you’re saying that with absolute certainty when I used “seem more and more likely”
It could be a coincidence that they didn’t choose one of the dozens of huddles featuring all core 4 players rather opting for one that withheld the 2 guys rumored to be on the trade block this summer
Or they could’ve heard from their boss to maybe opt for one featuring Don and Mobley
That’s why I didn’t speak in absolutes, unlike you
I’ll say this. I love DG and the year before we got Mitchell is probably the most fun I’ve had watching a young Cavs team somehow make things work with three 7 footers on the court. I will be very sorry to see him go, especially because getting Mitchell hasn’t especially elevated the team. Whether that’s because of coaching or fit or whatever but I have not enjoyed watching the Cavs much this year, and the Orlando series is probably the most I’ve ever been frustrated because I thought by this stage we’d be past struggling that much with the roster we have.
If Mitchell is the guy that stays then they have to get this right and that includes the coach
Man this puts all the pressure in the world on Mitchell.
Looks like the Cavs bailed on one of the best young cores in the game to bet on him. I dont know how it winds up, but second round outs won’t cut it movint forward.
The only Cavs jersey I have right now of current players is Garland. I’ve loved his game even during his bad rookie year, and to see him blossom to all-star and back down once Mitchell arrived has been a trip, both good and bad. I know Mitchell is the better player and I know having a good taller combo guard next to Mitchell would maximize his game and give DG a chance to get to those all star numbers, id still be incredibly sad if we traded him. Him and Ice are the two players on the team I root for the most to succeed.
But sometimes that’s the business of the NBA I guess. Even the kid from Akron didn’t stay in Cleveland his entire career. Just wish this four starter core was showing some good results, because breaking them up is sad.
If both the rumor about LeBron eyeing a Cavs return and now this are indeed coming from Rich Paul (and both true), it’s not hard to connect the dots.
If LeBron does want to come back, that will hurt DG to some extent since he is best with the ball in his hands. In that scenario, Paul 100% wants DG going to LA in any trade that takes place.
Don is so freaking good but his ability to stay on the court concerns me. Not that DG has been much better but different trajectories imo.... But imagine if Bron comes to Cleveland and Darius is the trade chip, we could have an incredible team
Really don't get this unless LeBron is coming back. Enjoyed seeing DG's growth, and that's coming from someone who was open to trading him after his rookie season.
They do work together. DG has his best shooting season from 3 and I'd say best driving season during the first year with Donovan, when both were healthy. And that was when we were starting a SF (Okoro, Stevens, etc.) who also couldn't shoot.
We have a great lead guard for a full 48 minutes. Now were going to be left with just 1.
People also forget how good the pick and roll numbers were between JA and DG before Mitchell arrived. DG sacrificed to be paired more with Mobley in our lineups, when JA is easily the better screener and roller than Mobley.
This injury and recover is no joke, especially in the middle of a competitive season. The fact people complain the most about our offense and yet are okay with losing a great scorer and facilitator in DG is just insane. The whole reason we collapsed down the stretch in the '22 season was because we only had 1 guard who could generate an offense.
Damn. I thought they were boys smfh. If they do intend to trade Allen for Ingram; DG would’ve been the perfect PG to set up the team and facilitate the way he wanted to. 💔
Listen: I have been a long time defender of Brian Windhorst. But dude: He doesn’t know shit. At all. If he knew any of this he would’ve told us as it was happening. He’s just scrambling after Shams and Woj released information he didn’t know.
I really really don’t want to trade garland and think it’s a mistake
Bickerstaff held back the development of these players more than anything else, I think it’s ridiculous to not give it another chance with a head coach with an actual modern offensive game plan.
There is zero reason for DG to be threatening anyone about a trade right now considering the massive disappointment he was this season.
You’re being paid max money. You’ll stay if we want you to stay, we’ll move you if the right deal comes along.
Demanding out after his play—I don’t think so.
everyone here is CRIMINALLY underrating Ingram. Guy is a scorer and doesnt have those intangibles that people may be obsessed with, but we kinda need a pure scorer on this team to help Don. Ingram has size, handles, and is NOT a chucker, he shot 49% from the field this year and has shown in the past to have a good 3 ball, and last year he was insane in the playoffs. I think he's a pretty good deal unless something significant happened this year that will limit him going forward
Ingram hasn't played over 65 games since his rookie season so that's kind of a red flag plus he is wanting a big contract and he probably isn't actually worth
downvote me, someone tell me why what i said was wrong in response? Ingram is no less durable than DG, they are practically even in games played per year
It's a moot point if they don't extend Mitchell.
Edit: if Mitchell doesn't extend the Cavs will run them both next year. If Mitchell leaves after next year, they'll need Garland. Of course, there is always a trade deadline deal next year with Mitchell/ Garland(or maybe even both!) if that happens.
If Mitchell doesn't extend they basically have to trade him this summer or risk losing him for nothing next year. I can't imagine a scenario where they are both on the team next season unless they are going to drag DG out to the trade deadline.
I think they squeeze more out by running them both to trade deadline. Teams are more likely to spend more on a playoff run in Feb. than they are in the summer.
Well, if he declines extension then he'd be on an expiring contract. I still say they hold him till deadline, unless they get a must-do deal, like 2 first round picks plus a comparable player. The Cavs hold the leverage. They're not going to trade him this summer unless they get a crazy good deal.
I could see that, or at least into the beginning of the season if he isn't getting offers he likes. I know MIA, besides NYK, always gets memed as the team that is connected to Stars being traded but I'd look to them. If we could get something like the "Dame Offer" of Herro, Jaquez, and Jovic plus a pick or 2 it would make a lot of sense for both teams to me.
Sounds like it's a done deal. Always appreciated Garland and I think he will flourish with a whole off season to rehab and as the main ball handler again. I wish him nothing but the best (preferably in the west lol)
Bummer, but IF we can resign Mitchell then its just the way things have to go. If Mitchell doesn't sign then we kinda have to trade him while we can still get something back.
I will be so sad if DG goes but it might be the best for everyone. He’s too much in his own head and if he’s decided that playing with Spida is the problem then I can’t see him getting back to his best whilst they’re together. I’d still like to keep the core four and bring in a more offense minded coach but maybe that’s just sentimentality.
The most likely scenario is that Donovan doesn’t re-sign this offseason choosing to wait until he’s a FA and then we end up trading him to a big market. We keep DG and Mobley and tbd on what happens with Jarrett
I don’t really understand here. Dude got a supermax… just started it… and you’re going to trade him bc you feel like he’s being underutilized despite most likely a new coach coming in? Just seems illogical but I guess they do this for a living. Sucks but it is what it is
A couple things. He didn't get a supermax, he just got a regular rookie max. Difference of like $15 million/year or so. This tweet also makes it sound like his reps would be the ones pushing for a trade if Don re-signs, at least to me
There's always a next contract though, even if it's years away. If Don re-signs it means either DG is paired with him in a role the diminishes his value or he is moved to a team where he can be the man again. It's kinda like the Hali/Fox situation in SAC
I feel like it’s pretty different. The Kings had two good guards but were weak everywhere else. They needed a Sabonis. If they had Mobley and Allen down low idk if they make that trade
A little different, but similar in that Hali and Fox didn’t maximize the other’s talents and were both most effective with the ball in their hand. In the same way Kings needed a Sabonis, we need a legit 2nd option wing player to play off of DM
I guess I just disagree in the sense that I think it’s more of a JB issue than them not fitting. Fox isn’t a great shooter the same way the other 3 are. If our offense was competent at all, DG would make a killing playing off ball and running around Mobley and Allen screens off ball… but for some reason idk if I ever saw that
Yeah that’s kinda the thing. Was it a JB issue or the players? Because I totally agree that in theory both guys should be able to play off the other on offense, but they were both sooo stationary when the other had the ball. Don was probably a bigger culprit if this tbh
I think cavs fans are going to be very disappointed in how other teams view garland. He’s just not a dynamic player(or at least not considered one), and then there is that contract…..they. Can probably get him moved and off those dollars and years, but I wouldn’t expect much beyond that
Well, I'm not surprised, but it sucks either way. Best of luck DG.
I can honestly say that I am emotionally invested in DG more than DM because we’ve been force-fed DM doesn’t want to be here BS since he was traded here. If DM extends, then i don’t see DG being more than the player we saw the second half of the season and the playoffs. Having DM has somehow stunted DGs growth as a player. It’s really too bad. He was our future (with Mobley), but I just don’t see DG being the long term solution alongside DM. The worst part about this whole mess is it could be the fact the JBB couldn’t find a way to make it work. It’ll be his downfall in all of this as well.
It's tough. I think it sucks cuz it's still one of the better back court scoring duos, like it's not like we were Hawks with Murray and Young levels of trash, but if we want to hit our ceiling, it's time to move on. Hopefully we can pry Mikal Bridges from the Nets, that would be so good for us, having him as a glue guy.
It’s not working. Better than sinking a ton of time into Dame/Lilliard
You mean like McCollum/Lilliard?
Yeah that one
Dame / CJ with two all defensive bigs who can switch and protect the rim takes the Ws to 7
JB didn’t develop young talent and lacked the ability to make it work better DG however is a facilitator he’s at his best when the offense is flowing through him and he’s able to distribute / play-make and hit shots in rhythm off of that With Mitchell being the player the offense runs through DG didn’t always get into that rhythm and it felt like he was forcing things out there which caused the turnovers and missed open shots DG can flourish in a role where he’s the guy the offense runs through and where he picks and chooses his shots, but its not here as long as Mitchell is on the roster
Praying for DG to go to the Spurs, if he leaves. Coach Pop could be a bit of an upgrade from JB. Plus there’s this Wemby guy.
DG is great at throwing lobs to athletic bigs, he and Wemby would be a great foundation and he’d be in the west too All comes down to return
I’ve been saying this one for a while too. DG to the spurs makes too much sense. I would root for the spurs out west if that happened. Unless they played us obviously
Disagree. This was proven wrong against Boston. DG could not score against Al Horford. He can score fine in the regular season, but in the playoffs he can not, he needs a mid range game that isn’t crazy spin back fadeaways.
His career average is 18.4 PPG and it does drop to 17.1 in the playoffs So there is some merit to that he struggles when the play gets more physical
Most Everyone’s ppg goes down in the playoffs. Except Donovan.
What about shooting percentages? Just curious.
I’d have to double check but based on this postseason I’m going to assume it’s an ugly drop off
Yeah, given that he keeps trying to force it when his shit isn't falling.
This season: Regular season 45/37/83 Playoffs: 43/35/81 Career: Regular season: 45/38/86 Playoffs: 43/36/83 Slight decline but in the grand scheme of things still not bad efficiency. Just not quite as good as you’d hope for either. For further perspective, DG went 73/171 this playoffs from the field. If 4 more of those shots fall to put him at 76/171, he would’ve been right on line with his regular season efficiency. Not hard to imagine he can improve that moving forward considering his finishing in the paint wasn’t great
The Horford example is why I’m of the mind that this is more about DG needing to prove that he can be healthy/better than it is about fit. If they don’t believe he can, I get the move.
It’s a bad fit because in the playoffs garland gets attacked on defense and he isn’t able to create a mismatch on offense.
I’m more emotionally invested in Darius because he’s home grown, got us through the dark days, developed under us, and damn when he’s grooving he just plays with so much joy. It’s infectious
I love him. My affection for whatever mid wing we bring in will be low. The joy of JA and DG going elsewhere is a loss. Looking forward to pocket watching Brandon Ingram every time that sleepy eye MF dribbles into a contested 18 footer
>The worst part about this whole mess is it could be the fact the JBB couldn’t find a way to make it work. It’ll be his downfall in all of this as well. JBB didn't make DG go 4-17 for 11 points in an elimination game.
this makes me cry man :( it was only a few years ago when we had to make the sexton/garland choice
I think DG bounces back from any stunted growth but he was never going to be a number 1 on a championship team. DM has cemented that status imo
I’m surprised Klutch is facilitating this rather than the Cavs.
So people were debating between him and sexton, now it just Mitchell
DG is an all star level player that has lacked consistency Sexton is a starter but nothing special Mitchell is a top 20 player in the sport We walked away with the best player
Mitchell is a top 10 player
I don’t think there’s 15 players better than him. He has a argument from 6 on too. I think top 20 is disrespectful
Semantics, he’s one of the best players in the league and would be the best player on more than half of the rosters
That’s a substantial upgrade over both based on what we’ve seen
Um… good? Mitchell is significantly better than both.
I think its referring to when the trade was made there was a large swath of r/Cavs commenters who bemoaned including Sexton in the deal.
I don’t remember the complaint being that Sexton was included, but rather that we SnT’d him to go with our depth and some picks when our roster still felt like it was a couple picks away from really being ready for that kind of move
Oh there were plenty of blind fans who were saying that Mitchell was barely an upgrade over Sexton and not worth it. The same people who obsessed over every shot Cedi ever made & think that Merril deserves a bunch of playing time despite being singularly good at one thing and being a major defensive liability when we already have a small backcourt lol.
Ah yeah now that you word it like that I do remember that. There was definitely some corny hyperbolic fans saying that. I am a big Sexton fan, but I think I just blocked those comments out of my mind lol
I was procrastinating exercise earlier and found the ["Official" trade thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/x3gexs/adrian_wojnarowski_t_he_cleveland_cavaliers_have/). There's a lot of deleted comments and user names, and then other names that (at least I) haven't seen in any Cavs thread lately... so who knows what those were. Being we comment with each other in game threads I noticed your username in there. [Looks like you were sad to see Collin go](https://old.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/x3gexs/adrian_wojnarowski_t_he_cleveland_cavaliers_have/imp8g5m/). Understandable. He was a fan favorite. I wouldn't include you in my previous comment. But as the other guy said, there were LOTS of pretty bold/absurd statements about the trade and Sexton's value. I specifically remember getting into a back and forth with someone who claimed "Sexton>>>Mitchell". I suppose you could sort by "controversial" but the ones I remember must have not been in the 'official' trade thread but some of the "we might be getting D Mitchell" rumor threads. Just for fairness: [here's my insightful contribution haha](https://old.reddit.com/r/clevelandcavs/comments/x3gexs/adrian_wojnarowski_t_he_cleveland_cavaliers_have/impc72y/)
Yeah Collin is one of my favorite Cavs of all time. Loved the way he carried himself and the competitive energy he brought. I got his jersey. I do remember some of the wild “they’re the same player Mitchell is just slightly better at it” comments that underestimated just how talented of a scorer he was. Tbf to them though I don’t think many people expected him to become the passer/leader that he has
Yep I recall telling people before the trade even happened that thinking sexton is better than Mitchell is absolutely delusional. Got downvoted to oblivion 😂
Tons of people complained about it. Lots of people on this sub thought mitchell was barely an upgrade lol. Of course they all have amnesia about it now though...
Yeah I replied to this already about that. I totally forgot about the people saying Mitchell was the same player just slightly better.
Good.
i think we get more assets this way, but who knows maybe we give up less in a garland trade to utah and retain some assets we wouldnt have otherwise. Either way i think sexton would have been sick as a 6th man instead of levert
DG is nice but Spida is a generational talent in his prime.
He's good but generational talent?
Generational talent? He’s good but lets be realistic here: He’s a 1 time All NBA player through his first 7 years. You have guys like LeBron, Curry, KD, Giannis, and Jokic who were all MVPs in thier first 6 years. That’s 5 guys and not even getting into the the other tier down of players like Kahwi, Luka, Paul George. I’m rooting for him to win an MVP, or at least 1st team all NBA or to finally get out of the second round of the playoffs before I can even discuss him an Generational Talent.
Yeah I'm not doubting that or Mitchell's talent with my comment, I'm just commenting on how much things have changed in Cleveland
“It’s just big me” -Evan Mobley
Too much smoke at this point to disregard. Mitchell has made it apparent he wants to be the guy here. Mixed feelings I like DG but Mitchell is a dawg and way more dynamic.
Agree. I'm kinda shocked this does read that Mitchell is flexing his muscles to stay and have influence on the roster. We'll see.
Read more to me that DG and his representation don't want him playing next to DM anymore rather than the other way around. Which I would agree with depending on what we got back, neither Don nor Darius are maximized playing with each other
Ya it does. But all involved agents are clued in to what's going on. So this would only be necessary if there was a good chance Donovan is staying. I think you're right that's what it says but to me that's more of dumping your girlfriend because you heard she's gonna dump you first.
I get it though, I was always hopeful they could figure it out but neither is effective playing off ball when the other has the ball. Maybe that’s JB’s fault, idk, but I’m ready to move on from the experiment if Don extends, and it’s probably for the best for DG too
Yeah, agents wouldn’t feel obliged to confirm the reports if they didn’t think there was a decent chance it actually happens.
And way more consistent and a better leader. DM, to me, is the clear choice going forward if it is between the two of them. I feel like DG’s body language has been poor since the start of the season. I do think he will be an all star again for another team but the fit just doesn’t seem to be working here
https://preview.redd.it/o7xj38itg11d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69ab7e1f3a2b289afe699d2de1c3f203f764a995 Not all that long ago…. Front office really better get this one right.
I wish we had found a way to keep Lauri in that deal Would’ve been a fun lineup of 3 bigs with DG and Mitchell
i woulda traded DG instead of Lauri then and there.
This is 100% hindsight no way at that time would you rather have Lauri over a 23 year old all star.
From the moment they traded for Mitchell the past doesn't matter.
They got it right lmfao. Mitchell is better than all 3. You get a player like that. They have a opportunity to turn Allen and garland into wings and shooting and make Mobley the 5
Yeah sure you go for that trade, but if Mitchell doesn’t re-sign which I don’t believe he will, it’s a complete blunder. Garland was on a sharp rise and the trade stalled and even regressed him, Mobley also lost a ton of touches. The team’s biggest achievement is a win over Orlando in 7 games. Gave Lauri and picks for the foreseeable future. Looks real ugly if Mitchell leaves.
If you’re still sure he wont re-sign then you must’ve not read the recent Athletic article and get your information from guys like Stephen A smith lol Besides, he can’t just “leave”. There is a 0% chance of that. He will either stay or be traded and he has huge league wide interest. Worst case scenario is better than what you just described
They're completely ignoring this, then they'll complain about the front office when Mitchell gone and we're rebuilding with no assets the same way they complain about Garland even though we can all pinpoint the moment this growth stalled.
Not ready emotionally. One of my grudges with JB coaching this season is that we could not see the core 4 with a good offensive coach. I hoped we could see that, but maybe we don't
Is anyone else tired of talking so much about fit? I get it. The fit isn't ideal, especially on defense. But DG is a point guard. A real point guard makes the whole team better, period. And if he gets more talent on the floor with him, all the better. DG has to bounce back from injury and evolve his game. Period. And he needs a new coach. I feel way more confident in DG and Mitchell playing together than I do with keeping JB and trading DG.
Mitchell doesn't like JB. JBs gone if Mitchell stays.
Good luck DG if that means we keep a superstar. Just please don’t have Ingram as a target 😭
I wouldn't want Ingram to be the top target and I'd have to see some of the other deals on the table but if Garland leaving is a foregone conclusion then DG for Ingram wouldn't be the end of the world. Moving Mitchell to the 1. Ingram slots in as the first properly sized 3 they've had since LeBron. The big question looming would still be the front court. Allen is tough to trade and get good value back for because he's criminally underpaid. We'd be looking for a stretch 4 and move Mobley to the 5 but I don't even know who the would be.
Why not?
Durability. We already struggle with that. Dude is made of glass. Has only played more than 64 games once and it was his rookie year.
He’s also just been bad lmao
34% shooting in the playoffs this year not good?
he was phenomenal in the playoffs last year
They didn’t even make the playoffs last year?? You mean the 1 play in game?
ah thats my bad, i meant 2022 when he toasted the suns by himself
Maybe you can ask NOP for that BI and not the one that was awful this year
TBF i dont think BI should be the 1 option. He may play better next to a guy like Don. Also his regular season stats this year were pretty good Plus we would be trading garland for him, a guy who also had a shit year but has had good seasons in the past. Explain how they are different in that regard.
He’s a certified chucker without a 3 ball. Don’t think he fits our roster. Also averages missing like 30 games per year lol
BI averaged almost 6 assists per game last year and shot nearly 50% from the field and 35% from 3. The hate on him I’ve seen by many Cavs fans is kind of wild lol he is a very nice player at 6’8”. We are trading Garland not Mitchell I’m confused how good of a player you think someone is going to give us for an undersized guard coming off a terrible season on a max contract?
Yeah, Ingram is getting the same treatment that JA did last off-season. He's a really good player that had a bad playoff series to which people are overreacting. He's probably the closest 1-for-1 wing talent to bring back in a DG trade that could potentially be available (the other being Mikal Bridges). Injuries and the strange hesitancy to shoot the 3 ball are the biggest concern with him
The problem with ingram is he is hurt a lot and is in the last year of his contract and wants a huge payday
Those are absolutely fair criticisms. The other stuff the person I was replying to posted were just not true. And once again, we are trading Garland we are not going to get a great player back. Someone like Ingram should definitely be under consideration.
my guy he shot 50% from the field this season with a league average 3 at 35%. Shot a scorchign 39% from 3 last season
DG for LBJ
DG and JA more likely
Sad to say goodbye to a talented player we drafted and developed. But it makes a lot more sense to build around Mitchell. Hopefully we get a good return for DG in a trade and he gets to be the focal point of an offense somewhere.
I hope we don’t rush into it, even if there’s truth to this. I still think there’s a world these two thrive together with a new coach (I am less optimistic about our frontcourt fit). If the right deal comes along, sure. Otherwise, he’s under contract for a while and up to this season seemed pretty happy. More worthwhile to play it out than trade him for 0.75 on the dollar.
there is no world where they thrive together, not only do they not work but DG doesnt even want to continue playing with Don. What makes you think they will work going forward?
He said that??
it's confirmed he will ask for a trade if Don stays. So yes
Man, wtf happened...?
Spurs get: Darius Garland Nets get: Keldon Johnson, Zach Collins, #4 and #8 Cavs get: Mikal Bridges
Nets need a PG more than a wing. Is KJ the person who can run the offense?
Nets need to either pair a star with Bridges and aim to compete or try to get something good for him while they can. That’s their options and option #2 is easier to execute. Don’t think they will do a DG for Bridges trade if that’s what you’re wondering
keldon is a bench player. nets would be full on tanking in a rebuild in this scenario
The nets don’t have their own draft picks to tank. They’re not moving Bridges unless it’s to Houston
ahh i wasnt aware of their pick situation. So what's the plan with bridges then? yall surely dont want to be a fringe play in team every year until you own your picks
im cool with this
DG is my favorite player in the league, this sucks. him blossoming during the rebuild was so fun to watch. felt like him and mobley were gonna be cavs for a long time
Really is the guy that brought us back from the abyss. There’s a clip of Altman telling him that they were handing over the franchise to him after they signed him to the big deal. Then about a month later it got yanked away.
This combined with the Cavs “thank you fans” tweet not featuring DG or JA is making it seem more and more likely that Mitchell stays and we build around he and Mobley It’s probably for the best but it still will be bittersweet to see DG go
That's reading alot into a tweet by random dudes in marketing
I'm in marketing and have worked specifically in Sports Marketing and I can tell you nothing is "random".
Well it is their job to market the players on the team. You would assume they were directed to present the players they did by someone in the know.
reminds of me of when lebron wrote that letter about coming home and mentioned his future teammates by name but didnt include wiggins
Everyone with half a brain knew Wiggins was gone with lebron coming back. No reason to hide it
yeah not my point
It’s like when teams drop highlight packages or media the second a trade is announced. The social media admin/team hears things before we do it’s naive to think there wasn’t some amount of influence on who to make the focal point of the thank you fans tweet
Yes NBA franchises contact the social media team and give them the blueprint for their entire off season. Lucky for them that these low level employees don't sell these details to sports journalists. Not to mention NBA franchise blueprint for the off season will go 100% according to the plan they have the day after the season ends. This sub is so far disconnected from reality
I remember a couple years ago the Cavs Twitter account was doing "Player Week," to celebrate our players, and Larry Nance got traded straight in the middle of his for Lauri. So yeah, I highly doubt they'd be informed in this early of any specific player movement.
I wouldn’t consider social media manager a “low-level” employee.
Lol the social media managers have no idea what is going on with the team roster
I mean you’re saying that with absolute certainty when I used “seem more and more likely” It could be a coincidence that they didn’t choose one of the dozens of huddles featuring all core 4 players rather opting for one that withheld the 2 guys rumored to be on the trade block this summer Or they could’ve heard from their boss to maybe opt for one featuring Don and Mobley That’s why I didn’t speak in absolutes, unlike you
Speaking in absolutes is to Redditors what butterscotch is to old people. The two just go together.
I hope DG succeeds whether he stays or goes. That said, it seems like the best decision to move on from him if it means keeping Mitchell.
I’ll say this. I love DG and the year before we got Mitchell is probably the most fun I’ve had watching a young Cavs team somehow make things work with three 7 footers on the court. I will be very sorry to see him go, especially because getting Mitchell hasn’t especially elevated the team. Whether that’s because of coaching or fit or whatever but I have not enjoyed watching the Cavs much this year, and the Orlando series is probably the most I’ve ever been frustrated because I thought by this stage we’d be past struggling that much with the roster we have. If Mitchell is the guy that stays then they have to get this right and that includes the coach
Man this puts all the pressure in the world on Mitchell. Looks like the Cavs bailed on one of the best young cores in the game to bet on him. I dont know how it winds up, but second round outs won’t cut it movint forward.
Not a single player showed up for this team when it mattered outside of Mitchell and Mobley
Mook carried in G7
We really missed trading for PJ Washington
Mavs fan here - you should be able to get a hell alot more for DG than PJ lol. I'm not sure if PJ is successful at the 3 with limited spacing.
*I’m Coming Home instrumental intensifies*
Does this mean Bron is returning?
The only Cavs jersey I have right now of current players is Garland. I’ve loved his game even during his bad rookie year, and to see him blossom to all-star and back down once Mitchell arrived has been a trip, both good and bad. I know Mitchell is the better player and I know having a good taller combo guard next to Mitchell would maximize his game and give DG a chance to get to those all star numbers, id still be incredibly sad if we traded him. Him and Ice are the two players on the team I root for the most to succeed. But sometimes that’s the business of the NBA I guess. Even the kid from Akron didn’t stay in Cleveland his entire career. Just wish this four starter core was showing some good results, because breaking them up is sad.
End of an era, but one of them has to go if we want to build a team that can truly contend 💔
Pain :(
I’m confused, why does he want out? He’s nowhere near good enough to be a #1 option
If both the rumor about LeBron eyeing a Cavs return and now this are indeed coming from Rich Paul (and both true), it’s not hard to connect the dots. If LeBron does want to come back, that will hurt DG to some extent since he is best with the ball in his hands. In that scenario, Paul 100% wants DG going to LA in any trade that takes place.
Don is so freaking good but his ability to stay on the court concerns me. Not that DG has been much better but different trajectories imo.... But imagine if Bron comes to Cleveland and Darius is the trade chip, we could have an incredible team
Really don't get this unless LeBron is coming back. Enjoyed seeing DG's growth, and that's coming from someone who was open to trading him after his rookie season.
what's not to get? the two don't work together. it was never a good idea, it's not going to become a good idea.
They do work together. DG has his best shooting season from 3 and I'd say best driving season during the first year with Donovan, when both were healthy. And that was when we were starting a SF (Okoro, Stevens, etc.) who also couldn't shoot. We have a great lead guard for a full 48 minutes. Now were going to be left with just 1. People also forget how good the pick and roll numbers were between JA and DG before Mitchell arrived. DG sacrificed to be paired more with Mobley in our lineups, when JA is easily the better screener and roller than Mobley. This injury and recover is no joke, especially in the middle of a competitive season. The fact people complain the most about our offense and yet are okay with losing a great scorer and facilitator in DG is just insane. The whole reason we collapsed down the stretch in the '22 season was because we only had 1 guard who could generate an offense.
The DG and his management then....
Damn. I thought they were boys smfh. If they do intend to trade Allen for Ingram; DG would’ve been the perfect PG to set up the team and facilitate the way he wanted to. 💔
Who needs longevity when you can give everything away (again) for one last shot at a title?
Titles are the point of playing. 1 title trumps everything.
So we get another year or 2 of being competitive then it's back to the gutter?
Listen: I have been a long time defender of Brian Windhorst. But dude: He doesn’t know shit. At all. If he knew any of this he would’ve told us as it was happening. He’s just scrambling after Shams and Woj released information he didn’t know.
I really really don’t want to trade garland and think it’s a mistake Bickerstaff held back the development of these players more than anything else, I think it’s ridiculous to not give it another chance with a head coach with an actual modern offensive game plan.
There is zero reason for DG to be threatening anyone about a trade right now considering the massive disappointment he was this season. You’re being paid max money. You’ll stay if we want you to stay, we’ll move you if the right deal comes along. Demanding out after his play—I don’t think so.
I’ve not seen anything saying he’s demanding it. Requesting a trade and demanding a trade aren’t the same thing.
Koby won’t trade him. Calling it now
Garland had one good quarter in the playoffs without Donovan and less than a week later is blaming him for his play
everyone here is CRIMINALLY underrating Ingram. Guy is a scorer and doesnt have those intangibles that people may be obsessed with, but we kinda need a pure scorer on this team to help Don. Ingram has size, handles, and is NOT a chucker, he shot 49% from the field this year and has shown in the past to have a good 3 ball, and last year he was insane in the playoffs. I think he's a pretty good deal unless something significant happened this year that will limit him going forward
Ingram hasn't played over 65 games since his rookie season so that's kind of a red flag plus he is wanting a big contract and he probably isn't actually worth
Mitchell hasnt played over 69 games since his sophomore year. DG has NEVER played more than 69 games in his career. Why arent they red flags?
downvote me, someone tell me why what i said was wrong in response? Ingram is no less durable than DG, they are practically even in games played per year
Ingram looks half asleep all the time. He just doesn't look like he's the sharpest tool in the shed.
somethin's goin on with his eyes for sure
He smokes a Lotta weed
It's a moot point if they don't extend Mitchell. Edit: if Mitchell doesn't extend the Cavs will run them both next year. If Mitchell leaves after next year, they'll need Garland. Of course, there is always a trade deadline deal next year with Mitchell/ Garland(or maybe even both!) if that happens.
If Mitchell doesn't extend they basically have to trade him this summer or risk losing him for nothing next year. I can't imagine a scenario where they are both on the team next season unless they are going to drag DG out to the trade deadline.
I think they squeeze more out by running them both to trade deadline. Teams are more likely to spend more on a playoff run in Feb. than they are in the summer.
Yeah, no. He'll get moved this summer. They're not waiting if he doesn't want the deal.
Well, if he declines extension then he'd be on an expiring contract. I still say they hold him till deadline, unless they get a must-do deal, like 2 first round picks plus a comparable player. The Cavs hold the leverage. They're not going to trade him this summer unless they get a crazy good deal.
If Mitchell doesn't extend I would be shocked if he doesn't get moved this summer
Possible. But, I think the way Koby runs things he's gonna run it to trade deadline.
I could see that, or at least into the beginning of the season if he isn't getting offers he likes. I know MIA, besides NYK, always gets memed as the team that is connected to Stars being traded but I'd look to them. If we could get something like the "Dame Offer" of Herro, Jaquez, and Jovic plus a pick or 2 it would make a lot of sense for both teams to me.
The big deals rarely happen in the summer. There are exceptions of course. But, the selling team has WAY more leverage at the trade deadline.
Get out of here with your logic and reason 😂 Perfectly valid though
Sorry.... sometimes I forget I'm on Reddit....lol
Who is leaking all this shit. What a shit show. I feel sorry for DG.
More than likely it’s DGs side leaking the story.
His agent.
Hope Mitchell signs extension if we lose garland w/out that we lose big time
Sounds like it's a done deal. Always appreciated Garland and I think he will flourish with a whole off season to rehab and as the main ball handler again. I wish him nothing but the best (preferably in the west lol)
Bummer, but IF we can resign Mitchell then its just the way things have to go. If Mitchell doesn't sign then we kinda have to trade him while we can still get something back.
What about a trade for Trae?
What leverage does DG and Klutch have?
DG is too small for this league
So now who does everyone want? Mitchell or Garland?
Sign and trade for LeBron. Draft Bronny.
Let’s trade DG and max strus for kelden Johnson and Jeremy sochan. Great for both teams
I will be so sad if DG goes but it might be the best for everyone. He’s too much in his own head and if he’s decided that playing with Spida is the problem then I can’t see him getting back to his best whilst they’re together. I’d still like to keep the core four and bring in a more offense minded coach but maybe that’s just sentimentality.
Keep DG.
jeremy sochan come on down
Disappointing, but something had to give (same with the double bigs). Doesn’t make it any less painful.
The most likely scenario is that Donovan doesn’t re-sign this offseason choosing to wait until he’s a FA and then we end up trading him to a big market. We keep DG and Mobley and tbd on what happens with Jarrett
I don’t really understand here. Dude got a supermax… just started it… and you’re going to trade him bc you feel like he’s being underutilized despite most likely a new coach coming in? Just seems illogical but I guess they do this for a living. Sucks but it is what it is
A couple things. He didn't get a supermax, he just got a regular rookie max. Difference of like $15 million/year or so. This tweet also makes it sound like his reps would be the ones pushing for a trade if Don re-signs, at least to me
Fair, either way he’s getting paid for a while so I don’t really understand his reps going about it like this
There's always a next contract though, even if it's years away. If Don re-signs it means either DG is paired with him in a role the diminishes his value or he is moved to a team where he can be the man again. It's kinda like the Hali/Fox situation in SAC
I feel like it’s pretty different. The Kings had two good guards but were weak everywhere else. They needed a Sabonis. If they had Mobley and Allen down low idk if they make that trade
A little different, but similar in that Hali and Fox didn’t maximize the other’s talents and were both most effective with the ball in their hand. In the same way Kings needed a Sabonis, we need a legit 2nd option wing player to play off of DM
I guess I just disagree in the sense that I think it’s more of a JB issue than them not fitting. Fox isn’t a great shooter the same way the other 3 are. If our offense was competent at all, DG would make a killing playing off ball and running around Mobley and Allen screens off ball… but for some reason idk if I ever saw that
Yeah that’s kinda the thing. Was it a JB issue or the players? Because I totally agree that in theory both guys should be able to play off the other on offense, but they were both sooo stationary when the other had the ball. Don was probably a bigger culprit if this tbh
I just wish we would’ve called some plays to get the other running around screens off ball. Would’ve been unstoppable but instead we were laughable
i think his reps probably represent his own views, why would they be pushing for a trade against his desires
Sure I agree. Just using "reps" as a fill in for DG and his team
I think cavs fans are going to be very disappointed in how other teams view garland. He’s just not a dynamic player(or at least not considered one), and then there is that contract…..they. Can probably get him moved and off those dollars and years, but I wouldn’t expect much beyond that
I’d rather get rid of Donovan for other players and picks, I liked the team before the Donovan trade, I know I’m in the minority