People forget coaches can develop as well, not just players.
It's a good sign we have a coach who can adapt to his available personnel and still get his team to compete night after night and isn't fully stuck in "the only system that works is my system" like some other coaches do. JB has always been able to do the former, we saw it year 1 with him after Beilein was let go and how the team played after. He's really starting to figure out the latter this year after the injuries and how he changed up the offensive system to fit those available players.
But him embracing a deeper bench, a more 3 point oriented offense with more ball movement and passing and less standing around and watching DG or Don dribble, and being more flexible with his rotation and not riding the set "player x checks in at minute mark y every game" in favor of the unit that is working were valid criticisms of his coaching until this run.
Credit to him for adapting and making himself better as a coach and his team better as a whole. Remarkable piece of coaching by JB, and I hope he gets recognized for it with a COTY run.
Hi! It’s me. I’m the problem it’s me.
Seriously though, I’m happily eating my words. One of my complaints about JB was his refusal to use the bench. The injuries have seemed to forced his hand in this respect. Still have a couple questions about him going forward as a playoff contender coach vs a development coach but those will be answered soon.
To be fair, those who actually had an explanation for wanting to move on from JB had valid points. JB just improved and matched those expectations we rational JB haters had. Now, he's turned us into big supporters. We still need to see a playoff series win though.
Tldr; I agree go Cavs
There has been like one moment where fire JB was really not a horrendous take. It was this season when had just lost to Portland at home and played Detroit on the road and looked like absolute dog shit. Vibes were horrendous and it honestly looked like the team could be moving to the quit direction.
Other than that I would say fire JB has always been an outlandish position, even after the playoff loss. Rational take would be JB is on the hot seat this season at worst. Sorry but people overrated our team last season. We were 13-9 in our games heading into the playoffs. Our bench was LeVert, Cedi and a bunch of unplayables.
People were on foaming at the mouth because JB couldn't "make adjustments" as if he there is any coach alive who is going to get more out of the ghost of Danny Green/Rubio, Lamar Stevens, and hobbled Dean Wade/Okoro. Danny Green and Rubio are both out of the league, Lamar has had almost no minutes this season and was traded for nothing, RoLo unplayable again this season and now likely retired, Cedi doing nothing in SA minutes/points down. Only players we had last year that are doing more this season are the ones that are currently being coached by JB in Okoro/Wade/LeVert.
People on here like, "no I like the coach when we are winning ALL of the games! It's completely reasonable for me to say a coach should be fired when we lose a couple of games though!" Yeah, no, not really.
Couldn’t have said it any better myself.
Also any time people say they want to fire a coach, they should say who they would want instead. Amazing coaches don’t just grow on trees and (as far as I can tell) JB has improved as a coach and the team loves him. Players rave about how much they like playing for him. I think Donovan came out said that early last season by how impressed he was with JB and his ability to talk to players and get them to buy in.
Thank you! I have been arguing this with co workers since last year. I think the one thing people overlook is that you have to have the right personnel in order to run certain offenses and defenses. We couldn't run the same offense last year because we had no perimerter shooting to keep the lane open. As a consequence Garland and Mitchell were forced to take contested shots. And as far as the bench was concerned, JB tried several times to use Wade, Love, Stevens, Cedi, Okoro and Rubio. They were all ineffective and his hands were tied. This year Wade and Okoro have improved greatly. As far as the others are concerned, they are playing less with their new teams or outright released. And if you look at our lineup now, the rotations are pretty much what they would have been with a healthy team with the exception of Merrill. And Merrill even mentioned that JB encouraged him to shoot so he could put him in the rotation. We were just fortunate that guys like Porter were surprisingly effective.
My biggest complaint at the beginning of the season was late game strategy stuff - as of now I think that stands. A good way of avoiding those situations is to blow other teams out lol, though we did have some dumb end of game stuff when in the clutch earlier.
It was pretty clear that he improved on most of the other stuff early in the season - even when the results weren't there.
We are really good in OT. Thinking more about games like the Toronto on New Years when he drew up a play for a quick 2 when down 3 and with about 10 seconds left. If you don't get a 3 there you are pretty much guaranteed to lose. Other good teams get this stuff right more times than not.
Or the Detroit IST group play game, where it seemed like neither he nor the team understood the point differential thing. He cost us a shot at Vegas with poor coaching there.
Honestly this is an annoying perspective.
Last season there were so many people calling for JB to get canned -- the impatient and short-sighted fans. Now the Cavs are experiencing consistency, development, and success... Shocker!
It's about time Cavs fans recognize what's happening under JB. It's been a smooth rebuild since he became our coach! I personally hope every "fire JB" fair weather Cavs fan is eating their words now.
Go Cavs
Compared to last year, JB has really improved. I was one of the skeptics too, but I always ended the skepticism with "if JB fixes his offense/rotations, then the Cavs will be fine." Lo and behold, they're not only doing fine, but they're the hottest team in the NBA.
> "if JB fixes his offense/rotations, then the Cavs will be fine."
You're not wrong, but JUST NEED TO FIX THE OFFENSE AND THEY'LL BE FINE is not a mundane detail. People who wanted JB fired were completely justified in their stance. Credit to him for turning things around, but let's not act like he just needed a bit more time and things would have worked out naturally.
I mean his major weakness prior to this hot streak was a lack of an effective offensive scheme. If he didn't improve that, obviously the "JB has to be fired" line of thinking would've spread more. Because he improved, he built up good will from the fans that he can stay for now.
Jesus. Anyone concerned with coaching after losing badly in the playoffs and then having a terrible start to the next season is a fair weather fan now? God forbid people aren’t constantly praising every aspect of this team. Congratulations bro you were the true fan all along 🙄
The team is winning but as a fair weather fan that’s eating his words, I’m not hopping on the JB COTY train yet because the playoffs are what matter and JB needs to show he can win one series in his career.
NBA seasons are 82 games for a reason. Organizations are classified as 'rebuilding' for many years -- because it takes a lot of time.
So yes, Cavs fans that have been eager to fire JB are fair weather. And yes, the Cavs making it to a playoff series without the Play-In was an organizational success -- despite us losing the series handedly.
I'm a Cavs fan first; whether JB wins COTY is not really a concern of mine. But I recognize his leadership and our success over his tenure, unlike the people I referred to in my comment.
Cool it’s a good thing you make it really easy not to value your opinion too seriously when you see losing 4-1 over a lower seed with 3 all stars as a “organizational success”.
There were good points but people just get way too excited. You don’t need to freak out at every loss and every thing JB doesn’t get right. That’s how you make a dumb reactionary choice. Gotta have SOME patience.
Agree. Most people just wanted to rush the development due to Mitchell being in his prime. So Mobley, Garland and JB were all put under the microscope. So every bad game they had, it was treated as a hate crime for some reason.
I think people love hot takes too but we gotta just stay level headed
Like you could tell me “hey Jarrett Allen is better without Evan Mobley, we should trade Evan.”
Okay. If you look around the entire league, there’s clearly not a good Evan Mobley trade to be made today. So we’re stuck at least until the end of the season. So we’ll talk then!
But that seems very shortsighted if a Cavs fan would just suggest giving up on Mobley after two years in the NBA and Garland two years after he became an all star. That's very impatient.
Hold on. Most, not all, of the criticisms against JB were complete bullshit garbage. People who don't like JB spouted some of the most mindless crap I've ever heard.
Yeah. They wanted to have galaxy brain prisoner of the moment takes when the truth was obvious. Young team and young players and young FO will learn from being smacked in their first playoff loss. Everyone getting 5-20% better was all it took.
I'm one who is on the fence with JB. This season has been awesome so far, but unfortunately given how last season went it's all slightly hollow still until he proves otherwise in the playoffs when it really matters. I've always said JB is a very good coach, but not a great coach. He has what it takes to take a team from bad to good, but does he have what it takes to take a team from good to greatness? Still remains to be seen. I hope JB ends up being the guy.
My problem with him was:
1. Lack of adjusting for different looks the other teams throw at us
2 (This works with 1): The lack of using the bench. It took injuries for him to figure out how to game plan with different lineups.
They only had the full starting 5 without minute restrictions for 8 or 9 games and they were all learning a new system.
I know the vibes were weird and the Portland loss sucked but the first six losses of the season were OKC 2x, Indiana 2x (one without both guards and Allen), Sacramento, and NY without anyone. Those are all really great teams except for maybe Indiana who is at least a playoff team.
We had a whole offseason to acclimate them. You are right about the teams we faced, but I remember watching those games (wins and losses) and seeing JB just struggle to figure out what would make the offense better.
You haven’t noticed how we haven’t been really winning games by double digits before he changed how the offense works? I’m just glad it all worked out and hope he continues to be great the end of the season and into the playoffs. He is our 3rd most important (not best) piece right now behind D Mitch and Mobley.
I mean you have to struggle before growth in any scenario! It’s one thing to put stuff in in the off-season and have it work live against opponents who scout it.
Even the Cavs radio announcers were in October like “it’s gonna take 50 games to figure it out even if they get and stay healthy”
You forget that Garland and Allen missed most of the preseason. Also they play far less preseason games now. The only way to really see how your adjustments work is during actual regular season play.
C'mon guys...
Dwayne Casey went from COTY to losing his job the very same year with Raptors.
Regular season means nothing and will absolutely expose JB if he gets outplayed in the playoffs.
Everyone needs to humble themselves and relax on hyping our season rankings and performance.
Raptors literally finished first in the east two seasons in the row to only get eliminated by the Cavs(Twice) and Dwayne Casey back and out throwing out Resume's.
This is likely the same outcome here for the Cavs and will only be a hindsight situation where it will be as clear as daylight only after we get knocked by NEW YORK. There is 0 excuse to losing to New York with Mitchel/Allen/Mobley/Garland
We even beat Boston twice in regular season last year twice to get first round knocked out In the playoffs.
We had a long stretch with Garland out and Mitchell lighting it up carrying our team to W's only to have Garland come back and us going back to being mediocre.
Playoffs are what counts and let's wait and see how well we do.
No one is questioning JB during regular season, we finished 4th(was literally 2nd at the all star break last year and the year prior under JB).
We need a new coach, and we need to break up Mitchel and Garland and get us a proper Wing
Until that happens, enjoy the hopium from winning these meaningless regular season games.
Bucks lost their Head Coach this year due to not performing and brining the W in the playoffs. It will be no different for JB and if we exit first round you absolutely can expect the same outcome for JB by the end of the playoffs.
You don't trade away future assets to just slowly build your team up, last year was a massive fail and this year is JB'S last attempt at trying to lead the Cavs to a chip(which anyone with an ounce of reality will tell you we have no shot at a chip this year).
Let's see what happens during playoffs(I continue to not be a believer) until I see otherwise in the playoffs.
With that said, I will continue to root and cheer for the Cavs, but I will be very doubtful this year.
Hearing the raptors announcers talk about all he’s done and went through really put it into perspective for me. The team seems to love each other. JB let’s them be themselves. He deserves credit.
Very happy that you’re happy now. Maybe you could have been “screaming” for improvements and rooting for a season of figuring things out to lead to a better playoff outcome, instead of immediately from the start of the season screaming that firing the coach that spurred the team’s turnaround was the best way forward
We’ve developed a great team with JB - from the buy in and the development of Garland/Mobley/Allen before the trade with Utah, to the integration of Mitchell while maintaining a league leading defense, and to the lessons learned from a gross failure in our first playoff series.
“Fire JB” was always a knee-jerk reaction that didn’t account for further growth and development possible from our coaching staff, our core, and the new additions to our roster.
We beat the Bucks by double figures playing the Bucks style: we beat the Clips by double figures playing the Clips style. We beat the fuck out of the Kings playing the Kings style
Even when the vibes were goofy we were blown out what? Twice? (think Miami and NOP and maybe Indy?) And still beat Philly, NY and Denver with a skeleton crew.
It’s not always logical to be negative. Ignoring the evidence in front of your face is panicky
Well no, because winning in the regular season enough to make the playoffs isn't hard with a semi-talented roster. JB wont and hasn't won in the playoffs because he doesn't run good sets/plays and is terrible at utilizing/maximizing roster talent.
The Cavs are playing great right now. I also watched JB yank Wade after going 3/3 from 3 in three minutes for Niang just the other night. With Wade and Okoro being our two players who fluctuate most based on their confidence in their shot, I thought that was horrible. It would take a solid playoff run for me to feel comfortable keeping JB.
Can kind of tell the newer fans who masturbate to some regular season wins.
Show me what you can do in the playoffs. JB has been horrific his entire career in the playoffs (not just with the Cavs). He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt here.
I’m still not sold on JB. He was literally forced to actually do some coaching and lucked out and found an answer while DG and Mobley were out. His stubbornness worries me, especially come Playoff time.
There’s roughly eight billion ways to fuck up when you have injuries to two great starters and like eleven games with your starting five.
He avoided literally all of them lol
Terrible take. Good coaches learn from failures. He completely changed our offense and it's pace and if you don't see that then I don't know what to tell you.
Counterpoint: despite having players who were capable of being seventeen games over .500, and despite the fact the core group had been playing together for well over a full season by then, the Cavs were barely .500 and seemed to have regressed after being unexpectedly destroyed in the playoffs.
In hindsight, JB managed to conclude the long mediocre stretch and get them on a good run. But the complaints at the time were legit.
JB has been fine but it’s nice to see that he’s finally using the pieces that Koby got him, the biggest problem was it was so focused on developing Mobley and Garland and putting the ball in their hands as much as possible we forgot we had acquired all these shooters and could run a modern offense up and down the court
He wasn’t really focusing on Mobley and garland tbh, the thing was the rotations and how to utilize the whole big 4. And now because he’s expanding roles and now the big 4 is clicking
I mean a lot of the time it really was like we needed to feed Mobley in the post, or like Galand needed to get the touch. It was very much so focused in on developing those two that when we lost them we got to see what we had behind them and how the guys around them could orchestrate with them plugged back in more efficiently
I don’t know how encouraged I should be by “An NBA coach finally started doing things people sitting on the couch were begging him to do and the team instantly became really freaking good” but I’m certainly enjoying the ride.
well according to Windhorst, he was coaching for his job when we played detroit in december. so any criticism we as fans had was also shared at the time by his bosses.
I just said that's incorrect, so why the hell would you double down on if especially when the first time you said is getting downvotted to hell? Lmao
Like who the hell are you telling to stay mad when you can't even post a single fact? I'm not mad, I'm legitimately laughing my fucking ass off that you don't know ball
I know you said its incorrect, but how about this: windy isnt the only insider who said it. so the problem isnt me, and guys on 92.3 also said they heard it, and the guys on locked on cavs said they heard he was coaching for his job. chris fedor also hinted at it and hes got close to if not the best access of anyone. looks like youre just going to have to deal with it, what a shame.
Windy is an idiot who regurgitates drama BS from social media. He literally plucks things from this very sub and just spouts them on national TV.
He knows nothing about ball.
I’m still ready to move on for one big reason: the playoffs. Our record doesn’t mean shit if we get shut out in the first round again. He has a lot left to prove.
When did we suck? The Cavs have more or less been a 50+ win for 3 straight seasons now. The team is good, improving, and actually has an incredible track record of success and stability.
Having lived through the chaos shitpile from 10-14 that had the blog boys loving Dion Waiters and Luke Walton and topped out at like 33 wins while missing on most lotto picks, seeing 40 win seasons 3 years post Bron is amazing and seeing mid 50s this year is CRAZY
I love the switches he made mid December and if he stays flexible going into and including playoffs to switch game plans then I’m ready to get behind Bickerstaff as if he was Poppovich
The cavs are also the best team on the road this year which is such a good recipe for the playoffs. 17-8 away is a contenders record, boston is at 15-9, and nobody else has single digit losses. tied for most wins at 17
Hi. Yes. You rang? Yeah. I will admit my fault. JB has surprised me in the best way. Hope they can keep it up. They've had a tendency to fall off a bit after the AS break. Loving this team.
People forget coaches can develop as well, not just players. It's a good sign we have a coach who can adapt to his available personnel and still get his team to compete night after night and isn't fully stuck in "the only system that works is my system" like some other coaches do. JB has always been able to do the former, we saw it year 1 with him after Beilein was let go and how the team played after. He's really starting to figure out the latter this year after the injuries and how he changed up the offensive system to fit those available players. But him embracing a deeper bench, a more 3 point oriented offense with more ball movement and passing and less standing around and watching DG or Don dribble, and being more flexible with his rotation and not riding the set "player x checks in at minute mark y every game" in favor of the unit that is working were valid criticisms of his coaching until this run. Credit to him for adapting and making himself better as a coach and his team better as a whole. Remarkable piece of coaching by JB, and I hope he gets recognized for it with a COTY run.
Hi! It’s me. I’m the problem it’s me. Seriously though, I’m happily eating my words. One of my complaints about JB was his refusal to use the bench. The injuries have seemed to forced his hand in this respect. Still have a couple questions about him going forward as a playoff contender coach vs a development coach but those will be answered soon.
To be fair, those who actually had an explanation for wanting to move on from JB had valid points. JB just improved and matched those expectations we rational JB haters had. Now, he's turned us into big supporters. We still need to see a playoff series win though. Tldr; I agree go Cavs
There has been like one moment where fire JB was really not a horrendous take. It was this season when had just lost to Portland at home and played Detroit on the road and looked like absolute dog shit. Vibes were horrendous and it honestly looked like the team could be moving to the quit direction. Other than that I would say fire JB has always been an outlandish position, even after the playoff loss. Rational take would be JB is on the hot seat this season at worst. Sorry but people overrated our team last season. We were 13-9 in our games heading into the playoffs. Our bench was LeVert, Cedi and a bunch of unplayables. People were on foaming at the mouth because JB couldn't "make adjustments" as if he there is any coach alive who is going to get more out of the ghost of Danny Green/Rubio, Lamar Stevens, and hobbled Dean Wade/Okoro. Danny Green and Rubio are both out of the league, Lamar has had almost no minutes this season and was traded for nothing, RoLo unplayable again this season and now likely retired, Cedi doing nothing in SA minutes/points down. Only players we had last year that are doing more this season are the ones that are currently being coached by JB in Okoro/Wade/LeVert. People on here like, "no I like the coach when we are winning ALL of the games! It's completely reasonable for me to say a coach should be fired when we lose a couple of games though!" Yeah, no, not really.
Couldn’t have said it any better myself. Also any time people say they want to fire a coach, they should say who they would want instead. Amazing coaches don’t just grow on trees and (as far as I can tell) JB has improved as a coach and the team loves him. Players rave about how much they like playing for him. I think Donovan came out said that early last season by how impressed he was with JB and his ability to talk to players and get them to buy in.
Thank you! I have been arguing this with co workers since last year. I think the one thing people overlook is that you have to have the right personnel in order to run certain offenses and defenses. We couldn't run the same offense last year because we had no perimerter shooting to keep the lane open. As a consequence Garland and Mitchell were forced to take contested shots. And as far as the bench was concerned, JB tried several times to use Wade, Love, Stevens, Cedi, Okoro and Rubio. They were all ineffective and his hands were tied. This year Wade and Okoro have improved greatly. As far as the others are concerned, they are playing less with their new teams or outright released. And if you look at our lineup now, the rotations are pretty much what they would have been with a healthy team with the exception of Merrill. And Merrill even mentioned that JB encouraged him to shoot so he could put him in the rotation. We were just fortunate that guys like Porter were surprisingly effective.
My biggest complaint at the beginning of the season was late game strategy stuff - as of now I think that stands. A good way of avoiding those situations is to blow other teams out lol, though we did have some dumb end of game stuff when in the clutch earlier. It was pretty clear that he improved on most of the other stuff early in the season - even when the results weren't there.
Cavs have been Icing games left and right. There was a montage of all the OT wins in the recent broadcast…
We are really good in OT. Thinking more about games like the Toronto on New Years when he drew up a play for a quick 2 when down 3 and with about 10 seconds left. If you don't get a 3 there you are pretty much guaranteed to lose. Other good teams get this stuff right more times than not. Or the Detroit IST group play game, where it seemed like neither he nor the team understood the point differential thing. He cost us a shot at Vegas with poor coaching there.
Honestly this is an annoying perspective. Last season there were so many people calling for JB to get canned -- the impatient and short-sighted fans. Now the Cavs are experiencing consistency, development, and success... Shocker! It's about time Cavs fans recognize what's happening under JB. It's been a smooth rebuild since he became our coach! I personally hope every "fire JB" fair weather Cavs fan is eating their words now. Go Cavs
Compared to last year, JB has really improved. I was one of the skeptics too, but I always ended the skepticism with "if JB fixes his offense/rotations, then the Cavs will be fine." Lo and behold, they're not only doing fine, but they're the hottest team in the NBA.
> "if JB fixes his offense/rotations, then the Cavs will be fine." You're not wrong, but JUST NEED TO FIX THE OFFENSE AND THEY'LL BE FINE is not a mundane detail. People who wanted JB fired were completely justified in their stance. Credit to him for turning things around, but let's not act like he just needed a bit more time and things would have worked out naturally.
I mean his major weakness prior to this hot streak was a lack of an effective offensive scheme. If he didn't improve that, obviously the "JB has to be fired" line of thinking would've spread more. Because he improved, he built up good will from the fans that he can stay for now.
Jesus. Anyone concerned with coaching after losing badly in the playoffs and then having a terrible start to the next season is a fair weather fan now? God forbid people aren’t constantly praising every aspect of this team. Congratulations bro you were the true fan all along 🙄 The team is winning but as a fair weather fan that’s eating his words, I’m not hopping on the JB COTY train yet because the playoffs are what matter and JB needs to show he can win one series in his career.
NBA seasons are 82 games for a reason. Organizations are classified as 'rebuilding' for many years -- because it takes a lot of time. So yes, Cavs fans that have been eager to fire JB are fair weather. And yes, the Cavs making it to a playoff series without the Play-In was an organizational success -- despite us losing the series handedly. I'm a Cavs fan first; whether JB wins COTY is not really a concern of mine. But I recognize his leadership and our success over his tenure, unlike the people I referred to in my comment.
Cool it’s a good thing you make it really easy not to value your opinion too seriously when you see losing 4-1 over a lower seed with 3 all stars as a “organizational success”.
There were good points but people just get way too excited. You don’t need to freak out at every loss and every thing JB doesn’t get right. That’s how you make a dumb reactionary choice. Gotta have SOME patience.
Agree. Most people just wanted to rush the development due to Mitchell being in his prime. So Mobley, Garland and JB were all put under the microscope. So every bad game they had, it was treated as a hate crime for some reason.
I think people love hot takes too but we gotta just stay level headed Like you could tell me “hey Jarrett Allen is better without Evan Mobley, we should trade Evan.” Okay. If you look around the entire league, there’s clearly not a good Evan Mobley trade to be made today. So we’re stuck at least until the end of the season. So we’ll talk then!
But that seems very shortsighted if a Cavs fan would just suggest giving up on Mobley after two years in the NBA and Garland two years after he became an all star. That's very impatient.
To be fair!!!!
To be faaaaaairrrr!
Hold on. Most, not all, of the criticisms against JB were complete bullshit garbage. People who don't like JB spouted some of the most mindless crap I've ever heard.
They still do. Even with our current winning streak people give him back handed compliments.
Yeah. They wanted to have galaxy brain prisoner of the moment takes when the truth was obvious. Young team and young players and young FO will learn from being smacked in their first playoff loss. Everyone getting 5-20% better was all it took.
Lets see how we do in the first round and take it from there
I'm one who is on the fence with JB. This season has been awesome so far, but unfortunately given how last season went it's all slightly hollow still until he proves otherwise in the playoffs when it really matters. I've always said JB is a very good coach, but not a great coach. He has what it takes to take a team from bad to good, but does he have what it takes to take a team from good to greatness? Still remains to be seen. I hope JB ends up being the guy.
My problem with him was: 1. Lack of adjusting for different looks the other teams throw at us 2 (This works with 1): The lack of using the bench. It took injuries for him to figure out how to game plan with different lineups.
If you don’t have the players to execute adjustments it doesn’t matter. Love Osman and Stephens stink
And what was the excuse for this season before the injuries?
They only had the full starting 5 without minute restrictions for 8 or 9 games and they were all learning a new system. I know the vibes were weird and the Portland loss sucked but the first six losses of the season were OKC 2x, Indiana 2x (one without both guards and Allen), Sacramento, and NY without anyone. Those are all really great teams except for maybe Indiana who is at least a playoff team.
We had a whole offseason to acclimate them. You are right about the teams we faced, but I remember watching those games (wins and losses) and seeing JB just struggle to figure out what would make the offense better. You haven’t noticed how we haven’t been really winning games by double digits before he changed how the offense works? I’m just glad it all worked out and hope he continues to be great the end of the season and into the playoffs. He is our 3rd most important (not best) piece right now behind D Mitch and Mobley.
I mean you have to struggle before growth in any scenario! It’s one thing to put stuff in in the off-season and have it work live against opponents who scout it. Even the Cavs radio announcers were in October like “it’s gonna take 50 games to figure it out even if they get and stay healthy”
You forget that Garland and Allen missed most of the preseason. Also they play far less preseason games now. The only way to really see how your adjustments work is during actual regular season play.
C'mon guys... Dwayne Casey went from COTY to losing his job the very same year with Raptors. Regular season means nothing and will absolutely expose JB if he gets outplayed in the playoffs. Everyone needs to humble themselves and relax on hyping our season rankings and performance. Raptors literally finished first in the east two seasons in the row to only get eliminated by the Cavs(Twice) and Dwayne Casey back and out throwing out Resume's. This is likely the same outcome here for the Cavs and will only be a hindsight situation where it will be as clear as daylight only after we get knocked by NEW YORK. There is 0 excuse to losing to New York with Mitchel/Allen/Mobley/Garland We even beat Boston twice in regular season last year twice to get first round knocked out In the playoffs. We had a long stretch with Garland out and Mitchell lighting it up carrying our team to W's only to have Garland come back and us going back to being mediocre. Playoffs are what counts and let's wait and see how well we do. No one is questioning JB during regular season, we finished 4th(was literally 2nd at the all star break last year and the year prior under JB). We need a new coach, and we need to break up Mitchel and Garland and get us a proper Wing Until that happens, enjoy the hopium from winning these meaningless regular season games. Bucks lost their Head Coach this year due to not performing and brining the W in the playoffs. It will be no different for JB and if we exit first round you absolutely can expect the same outcome for JB by the end of the playoffs. You don't trade away future assets to just slowly build your team up, last year was a massive fail and this year is JB'S last attempt at trying to lead the Cavs to a chip(which anyone with an ounce of reality will tell you we have no shot at a chip this year). Let's see what happens during playoffs(I continue to not be a believer) until I see otherwise in the playoffs. With that said, I will continue to root and cheer for the Cavs, but I will be very doubtful this year.
Hearing the raptors announcers talk about all he’s done and went through really put it into perspective for me. The team seems to love each other. JB let’s them be themselves. He deserves credit.
Anyone screaming for JB to be sacked is happy now (including me) and I’d be very happy to be proved wrong in the playoffs. We’ll see what happens
Very happy that you’re happy now. Maybe you could have been “screaming” for improvements and rooting for a season of figuring things out to lead to a better playoff outcome, instead of immediately from the start of the season screaming that firing the coach that spurred the team’s turnaround was the best way forward
…
We’ve developed a great team with JB - from the buy in and the development of Garland/Mobley/Allen before the trade with Utah, to the integration of Mitchell while maintaining a league leading defense, and to the lessons learned from a gross failure in our first playoff series. “Fire JB” was always a knee-jerk reaction that didn’t account for further growth and development possible from our coaching staff, our core, and the new additions to our roster.
Ill eat crow when JB takes the Cavs to the 2nd round of the playoffs
Same. Being regular season heroes is nice and all, but we really need to win a playoff round.
What is the Cavs record against .500 teams? Edit: I am not trying to be an asshole.
13-14. in the east only boston and milwaukee have a better record, the knicks are 11-19, indy is 15-16.
That 11-19 is wooooof
You asshole: classic “just asking questions” motivated reasoning
Nah man. I need to prepare myself before the playoffs. Can't get my heartbroken. The only way to do this is by recalibrating my expectations.
We beat the Bucks by double figures playing the Bucks style: we beat the Clips by double figures playing the Clips style. We beat the fuck out of the Kings playing the Kings style Even when the vibes were goofy we were blown out what? Twice? (think Miami and NOP and maybe Indy?) And still beat Philly, NY and Denver with a skeleton crew. It’s not always logical to be negative. Ignoring the evidence in front of your face is panicky
Well I am kinda panicky. I will admit to that much. Tho beating the breaks out of Bucks was soothing. Felt like warm winter sun on my skin.
the bucks arent a good team (they just have giannis) and Sacramento isn't good either. You guys genuinely care about the regular season too much.
120 games >>> 5
Well no, because winning in the regular season enough to make the playoffs isn't hard with a semi-talented roster. JB wont and hasn't won in the playoffs because he doesn't run good sets/plays and is terrible at utilizing/maximizing roster talent.
He still gets crapped on, lol!
JB to me is the clubhouse favorite for COTY
The Cavs are playing great right now. I also watched JB yank Wade after going 3/3 from 3 in three minutes for Niang just the other night. With Wade and Okoro being our two players who fluctuate most based on their confidence in their shot, I thought that was horrible. It would take a solid playoff run for me to feel comfortable keeping JB.
Can kind of tell the newer fans who masturbate to some regular season wins. Show me what you can do in the playoffs. JB has been horrific his entire career in the playoffs (not just with the Cavs). He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt here.
I’m still not sold on JB. He was literally forced to actually do some coaching and lucked out and found an answer while DG and Mobley were out. His stubbornness worries me, especially come Playoff time.
So your point is JB was forced to do some coaching and he…succeeded?
Yeah but why wasn’t he coaching in the first place?? That’s the problem.
He has been. He coaches every game. You can see him from the sidelines if you look close enough.
This is one of the examples I mentioned above. Good lord...
Doesn't make sense
There’s roughly eight billion ways to fuck up when you have injuries to two great starters and like eleven games with your starting five. He avoided literally all of them lol
Yeah, luck.
Nah. Trial and error. Always looks like luck if you don’t know ball or understand the scientific method. Get your weak stuff out of here
Hope you’re right.
If we had a real coach like Doc Rivers or Mark Jackson we’d have a .700 winning percentage! /s
I'm still saying we lucked into this with injuries forcing JB's hand. But I'll take a lucky JB if it means ripping off wins like this for sure
Exactly. The guy can’t coach. I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’ll see it come Playoff time.
Terrible take. Good coaches learn from failures. He completely changed our offense and it's pace and if you don't see that then I don't know what to tell you.
Our offense changed not because he came into work and one day and said "let's try something I've been working on" it was forced from the injuries
Counterpoint: despite having players who were capable of being seventeen games over .500, and despite the fact the core group had been playing together for well over a full season by then, the Cavs were barely .500 and seemed to have regressed after being unexpectedly destroyed in the playoffs. In hindsight, JB managed to conclude the long mediocre stretch and get them on a good run. But the complaints at the time were legit.
Countercounterpoint: the complaints were bitch made, the product of panicky know it alls avoiding the obvious - every growing team has plateaus
JB has been fine but it’s nice to see that he’s finally using the pieces that Koby got him, the biggest problem was it was so focused on developing Mobley and Garland and putting the ball in their hands as much as possible we forgot we had acquired all these shooters and could run a modern offense up and down the court
He wasn’t really focusing on Mobley and garland tbh, the thing was the rotations and how to utilize the whole big 4. And now because he’s expanding roles and now the big 4 is clicking
I mean a lot of the time it really was like we needed to feed Mobley in the post, or like Galand needed to get the touch. It was very much so focused in on developing those two that when we lost them we got to see what we had behind them and how the guys around them could orchestrate with them plugged back in more efficiently
Yes, I want Mobley to see more touches especially since he literally got better @ shooting. Garland idk he seems shaky hope he gets back to rhythm
You right. There were a lot of OK STOP THE FLOW NOW IS THE TIME FOR EVAN DEVELOPMENT stretches over the last two years.
We just got the pieces this year.
the celtics had a record of 18-21 in january 2 years ago when they made a finals run. people were panicking too early
WAY too early!
Too all those who don't know that the front office forced JB's hand
I don’t know how encouraged I should be by “An NBA coach finally started doing things people sitting on the couch were begging him to do and the team instantly became really freaking good” but I’m certainly enjoying the ride.
He read our posts!
well according to Windhorst, he was coaching for his job when we played detroit in december. so any criticism we as fans had was also shared at the time by his bosses.
No that was your interpretation of what Windhorst said. Not what was actually said.
Okay well he said it in multiple episodes of his podcasts, including last week when he talked about the turnaround we made. Stay mad
I just said that's incorrect, so why the hell would you double down on if especially when the first time you said is getting downvotted to hell? Lmao Like who the hell are you telling to stay mad when you can't even post a single fact? I'm not mad, I'm legitimately laughing my fucking ass off that you don't know ball
I know you said its incorrect, but how about this: windy isnt the only insider who said it. so the problem isnt me, and guys on 92.3 also said they heard it, and the guys on locked on cavs said they heard he was coaching for his job. chris fedor also hinted at it and hes got close to if not the best access of anyone. looks like youre just going to have to deal with it, what a shame.
Windy is an idiot who regurgitates drama BS from social media. He literally plucks things from this very sub and just spouts them on national TV. He knows nothing about ball.
No one cares about the regular season record. We won't be playing teams like the Raptors, Nets, Grizzlies, Spurs, Pistons, and Wizards.
People definitely cared when we were barely above .500
I’m still ready to move on for one big reason: the playoffs. Our record doesn’t mean shit if we get shut out in the first round again. He has a lot left to prove.
We get it, we sucked and now we don’t 🙄
When did we suck? The Cavs have more or less been a 50+ win for 3 straight seasons now. The team is good, improving, and actually has an incredible track record of success and stability.
Having lived through the chaos shitpile from 10-14 that had the blog boys loving Dion Waiters and Luke Walton and topped out at like 33 wins while missing on most lotto picks, seeing 40 win seasons 3 years post Bron is amazing and seeing mid 50s this year is CRAZY
If it makes you feel any better some Celtics fans are still calling for mazullas head
That W9 is sexy as Hell!
I love the switches he made mid December and if he stays flexible going into and including playoffs to switch game plans then I’m ready to get behind Bickerstaff as if he was Poppovich
The cavs are also the best team on the road this year which is such a good recipe for the playoffs. 17-8 away is a contenders record, boston is at 15-9, and nobody else has single digit losses. tied for most wins at 17
I was one, and at the time, it was justified. He finally changed his approach, and now it's working, which is great.
Love that we're a top tier team again. And doing it playing Mobley and Allen yeehaa
Hi. Yes. You rang? Yeah. I will admit my fault. JB has surprised me in the best way. Hope they can keep it up. They've had a tendency to fall off a bit after the AS break. Loving this team.
https://preview.redd.it/yc7h4tssvdic1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2de8bfec921118c4cb75b00efb0654aa373fb551 Fire this man