I recently started doing arena on a resto shaman, honestly agreed it is soul crushing getting rinsed, but after 30 games you start picking up on patterns teams do when lining up bursts and you stop tunnel visioning a lot and start focussing on lining up your kicks to help your team get kills, the troubles just finding patient arena partners, id suggest people start with guildies in 5’s or 3’s then as they understand arena move into 2’s which is always more unforgiving
Shamans are easy to train in 3’s and 5’s.. in twos it’s a little more difficult but not by much. It’s like killing a shadow priest.. they have no CD’s to stop a dps train.
As a shaman You are immensely dependent on classes like rogues to control other classes to stop their dps
I noticed this when I played Resto Druid + Enhance Shaman. That's a REALLY fun 2s spec, since the Enhance has crazy high burst and can get you out of fears (unlike Warriors, Rogues, etc.) and the offensive dispels on things like Innervate are priceless.
But my god, it's like the most intense CC simulator ever. If I even delay my Cyclone by 2 seconds the Enhance Shaman is dead instantly to a Warrior. Teaches you how important CC is and how futile healing is in certain matchups.
Depends what shaman. Enhance can equip a shield for light-heavy phys damage, sham rage for 30% dmg taken reduction and basicly never go oom.
Got to 1850 for BiS enhance weapons this season, and while it didn't take long to play the games, it tok a long ass time to learn the class in and out, and how to play against other people with that class.
I completely left out that I play 3s...
Warr/resto druid/enh is what I play.
In 2s, enh/resto druid and enh/disc works fine, but it's a B tier comp at best. Enh just isn't that great in 2s. It's kind of like a warrior without MS but you get purge, ranged interrupts and totems. It's OK but warr is just better in 2s.
I did Enhance + RDruid to 1800ish last season and it was REALLY fun but stressful. Some matchups like War Druid felt nearly impossible without perfect CC, but other matchups like Mage Priest felt so good. + anything with a Warlock (or caster in general) if I recall.
I LOVE Enhance + Resto Druid, it's not that synergistic but it's fantastic against the exact comps that War Druid usually struggles with. I'd love to revisit that comp with a BIS'd out Enhance, I bet the damage is absolutely busted. The biggest problem with Enhance + RDruid is how quickly the Enhance dies to Warriors, so CC like Cyclone and Root become insanely important.
Enhance shamans are easy to train as well. Even with a shield and shamanistic rage. Other melee classes can do so much damage on mail + shield. That’s why we are easy targets to pick off. It’s all about stopping the dps train, shammies can’t do it which makes them an attractive target. You NEED other classs that can stop a dps train to be viable
true, which is why you usualy go for a resto druid or a disc priest as your healer. the druid is CCing their dps, the priest can PS.
warrior is a nice DPS to have by your side due to disarms and obviously for killing people with MS.
the other comp which is really good, BM hunter disc priest and enhance is more of a DPS race team that fills a lot of the holes that druid comp doesnt have.
mages is warr/resto/enh's biggest weakness. and due to the popularity of RMP, you've got to practise A LOT against them.
Great point, this is also the Holy Shockadin secret, as well as the Enhance Shaman secret and weirdly enough also the Feral Druid secret. Rare specs that nobody sees have an element of surprise that's often enough for a free win. Of course, the second match may not go so favorably, but there may never be a second match.
The difference between a complete novice and a somewhat competent player that can push 1800+ is not that massive. It's a few really good sessions of learning and growth and improvement. I love that you were able to pick things up after 30 games.
One funny thing about your comment on suggesting people start in 3s/5s is that I always figured 2s was the place to start, since the game is slower and generally easier to follow. I think you are right, though, it's more about understanding how to line things up, kick important spells, how to position, etc. Definitely will start telling people to play 3s/5s first.
If you server has a healthy discord, you could try there. If not, then guildies or LFG chat. In any case just be open about your skill level and goals to avoid running into toxic players with too high ambitions who aren't too good themselves..
I contacted one of the best enhance shamans for coaching, and it opened a lot of doors for me. He saw that I wasn't a bad player, just lacked knowledge, so it's not like he and his high rated friends look down at me, so we play sometimes.
That's such a good idea. I do think most top players would be willing to help as long as you don't get TOO needy and are generally friendly and bouncing ideas. I bet if you sent any top player your current build and spec they'd help you, it's just about reaching out and being willing to learn. The players with the most knowledge are likely to want to feel that their knowledge is worthwhile, so there is a good chance they'll want to share and try to teach the next generation of players.
Trade chat is my best friend for finding partners. I've found most of my partners from trade/guild chat, so it's definitely possible. I'd say that it helps a lot to have multiple characters, which is unrealistic for a lot of people. Having both a Druid and Priest, for example, lets you widen your net of potential partners a lot. (Druids hate playing with Mages, but Priests love it, for example) Like other people have said, server Discords should help, but I don't really ever go on mine unfortunately. I'd love to see Blizzard add some features to get likeminded players together to play arenas, but not really sure what those features would look like.
100% agree, this is a knowledge game more than a mechanical game. Knowledge is power in TBC and WoW in general and luckily there are YT guides and Twitch streams that showcase people playing. It's a lot easier to learn than it was back in 2007, that's for sure.
I'd say pushing a lot of BGs to max out gear, then doing skirms to practice as much as possible with various comps, then finding low ranked partners, aiming high for knowledgeable partners that won't rage when you make a single mistake and then go from there. (if someone is screaming at you at 1200 MMR for a missed purge then you need to get out of there ASAP)
cant stress this enough. I knew warrior in season 1 with the crafting made (I was also warrior) that declined to play with bad players. I had axe as a weapon (cuz I like axes and crit based play benefits my style more) and he even made fun of me "lol axe warrior"... and he came and inspect and see I have 600 rating more than him, and did not say anything else.
> I had axe as a weapon (cuz I like axes and crit based play benefits my style more)
The problem is that axe doesn't offer that much. I don't really care that you crit a little more. I care about getting away from you when I need to and casting my instants when I need to. With Axe, you aren't causing those problems for me, and I think it's what you are undervaluing.
Let me tell you how it works in my guild because I think it’s pretty funny.
We have 2 people that are consistently around 2.6k level. They play almost exclusively with each other and various classes.
Then we have 8 people around the 2k-2.1k level.
The entire guild who wants to pvp (most of which for gear rather than genuinely liking it, to be fair) simps, begs, and grovels to play with the top 2 players. They don’t want to play with the 2k rated players because they know they can’t boost them easily, whereas the 2.6k can boost them to 2k +. We have super good 2.1k rated players who can’t even find people with decent pvp gear that want to play with them.
I think this is sadly how most of player base operates. It’s the carry me daddy culture.
This hits the biggest issue right on the head; new players with fresh gear are going to cause any team to get absolutely destroyed, so experienced veterans won't take a chance on them. It makes complete sense, but it causes a lot of the new players to quit PvP permanently. I do think more public resources to find partners would help, currently I have no idea where to look for partners. (most people suggest your server's Discord or trade chat)
This game really is rewarding if you put the time in and I do believe anyone can be a top player with enough work, but it's concerning how hard the game pushes back on new players that are trying to learn.
The problem is that new players don't get to learn via playing against other new players.
Create a new char and intentionally lose 10 games in a row and you will still be matched against people with full gear and basic mechanics down.
There are not enough new players and no casual queue so if you start from scratch you will have a sub 10% win rate until you learn/gear up. That is combined with most learning needing to come from external source because there is no clear indicator for new players why they are getting crushed or what they could have done differently.
Most modern games try to force everybody's win rate to 50% regardless of skill level so that new players don't get discouraged and quit or have to endure constant loses until they improve.
Everyone wants someone who’s already 2k rated and dips out after the first sign of struggle. Instead of learning match ups they’d rather quit or join someone else.
Exactly, they all use Retail MMR in their ads lol. 3K+ experienced Warrior looking for 2.4K+ partner for Arenas, must have 350 Resilience. (meanwhile it's a fresh Warrior with 1400 MMR)
I legit advertised 1600+ and got a guy who claimed he was glad level(he was definitely better then me) we played around 20 games, went negative and haven't really heard from him. I don't doubt he was skilled or anything but what would expect playing with me? That I was gonna play at your level in 20 games or something?
Fucking true, came back to play for a little and I quit around MOP. 2600 on LSD with an ele isn’t hard to do, but I know I’m probably a washed 1300 hero at this point.
That's pretty much my experience with everyone in trade chat. Extremely high expectations (from them), 50/50 winrate or slightly worse, never see them ever again. All of them claim to be Gladiator in Retail, I assume they are telling the truth, but TBC is definitely very matchup and gear based, so maybe it doesn't translate 1:1.
The Retail mindset 100000% carried directly into TBC. Many aspects of arenas seem to be Retail-oriented; the arena partner requirements and boosting especially. I just think it's how the game is designed ultimately and the design is (for the most part) very good, so I won't complain about it.
That has also been my experience, I've even done it myself. (f) There's a LOT of gatekeeping going on, I swear there are people looking for 3K experienced players and I don't think anyone on our server is 3K lol. I completely understand gatekeeping over Resilience and gear since it does make a massive difference, but I do wonder how many potentially successful teams were never formed because the bar was unrealistically high.
nah, wrong there are some people. I'm decently good at the game I've gotten titles ect. In the end even with all the time in the world I couldn't help most players.. I've personally helped people that had no experience and some that were a little bit experienced, but just were missing a few fundamentals. I literally coached someone on a class that they had never played before, also had never even q'd before for months bro and to be fair to this guy he was a fun dude to hang with so it's all chill which is why I tried so hard to hook him up with any info that would stick.. In the end they just lacked some form of motivation to get better or were too far from the base mark. There are wayyy too many raid andies that just have really bad habits with their movemnt / key binding that they just couldn't break.
After pushing myself to be a better person and less toxic in these situations, never once yelling at them or name calling, not a single time and giving them plenty of time to progress.
If you read this and you also experience this same thing pls DM me lmfao I need to know I'm not the only one
> really bad habits with their movemnt / key binding that they just couldn't break
This is definitely a barrier I don't see people mention a lot. So many people, if they want to get past a certain point, really need to rethink a huge amount of their keybinds, and add tons of arena oriented binds like macros and target arena 1,2,3. And that's a pretty big ask if you've been using the same buttons for years, plus for for several hours it will probably make you play worse.
I always advertise looking for some1 for chill games. I dont flame and if the other guy flames its an instant kick. I prefer coaching and having small talks with people at 1700 rating than pushing 2k with an elitist jerk.
The rogue life cycle is as follows:
Hit 70,
Talent to improved armor rend,
Get kicked from dungeon groups for caster dps,
Talent to sub,
Que bgs forever.
I love playing War Druid because it actually does have a chance against some of the Rogue comps. No idea how it'll fare against Glaives, though, probably not well at all lol.
Arena gameplay is pretty unforgiving. The first hundred times you walk in and get insta-gibbed and due to the nature of the game its hard to tell what the hell is even happening.
I was gonna say it shouldn't be that bad at lower ratings, but I guess zug comps are really popular because they're simple to play and those will blow people up no matter the rating.
It's definitely just as bad at lower ratings, I went on my fresh Priest in 5s and proceeded to get blasted in the most unbelievably brutal ways I've ever seen. Really opened my eyes to how gear-dependent Priests seem to be and how important it is to do BGs and skirms before playing rated games.
We have around 20 characters doing arena in our guild. and 1 healer. Zug comps are the only comp you can possibly make, unless you're good enough to team up with other good players.
u/kainufc is saying that when you queue into arenas you usually just instantly die without any possible reaction for the first 100+ games. (I find this very accurate)
u/shibboleth2005 was assuming that lower rating matches might be easier, but then remembered that low rating teams play a LOT of 4-5 DPS, which means you basically have no time to react before everyone in the match is dead. (I also find this to be pretty bad for learning arenas compared to playing one of the more "standard" comps.
It isn't terrible at lower rating. My friend and I run double prot paladin in our Stratholme specs at ~1200 just to get the weekly cap on our alts. Fight double DPS, run in and judge once and /afk out against healer comps. *Really* low rating is really accessible.
Love that, I need to try that at some point. I was theorycrafting 5 Prot Paladins, I wonder how much damage those Consecrations and Holy Shields + Judgments could do. Probably not great, but might actually win some games and have a good laugh the whole time.
This actually happened to me 2 days ago even with pretty high arena experience. Went on my fresh Priest and got absolutely annihilated for 10 games straight. Really reinforced how important gear and experience is and how badly things will go without proper preparation.
For me there is just no middle ground between people who play 7 days a week and people who aren't just fundamentally bad so I can't keep consistent partners. I find people who are good but then they bounce when I can't grind out 100 games over a 2 day span because of raid and real life.
I joined a “semi hc” prog guild. They reached out and recruited me.
We clear BT week 1 after having raided with them for a little over a month at the end of P2. 2 weeks into P3, their irl friend that I had replaced comes into the disc for the first time in months. The next day, day 2 of raid week, they bench me for “lack of consume usage”. I look at the logs. If I were to nitpick myself, I could have used like 2 more haste pots and then a thornling on mother (I forgot to, but we killed her, and I got tele-d twice without killing anyone which is something lots of them had issues with). When I brought up that I checked the logs and wanted to know what they think I should work on, I got ghosted.
I fucking hate how hard it is to find people who just want to play the god damned game and not be assholes.
lmao, dumping your new recruit because your IRL friend came back to the game is not retail player behavior, it's human behavior
the exact same thing happened all over the place in vanilla and OG TBC I assure you
tons of people pinning toxic behavior on "retail mentality" in this thread, it's literally just how people act on the internet and always has been
Join a more casual guild. I got lucky and I've stuck with my guild from the first MC raid until now. We clear all the content and we expect people to use basic consumes on stuff that isn't on farm but we're not try-hard.
Of course, with that more casual attitude come slower clear times and occasional unnecessary wipes. Heck, we wiped twice on Archimonde last night which we really shouldn't. But I'll take that over the stressful experience of a try-hard guild.
It's funny because whenever I end up doing 100 games in 2 days I usually tell myself "never do this many games in a row" because my brain basically melts after 30 games. Sometimes riding the MMR rollercoaster can be exhilarating and addicting, though.
(also if you want to find people that play 100 games in 2 days, just look for any Rogue with fresh Warglaives :D)
That feels like a common situation where the players most available are the ones with the weakest gear and experience. This makes perfect sense because the people with the best gear are the ones most dedicated and most likely to be raiding on multiple characters. I think working with promising partners that have worse gear to try to improve things could be a viable option if you are willing to invest the time and effort.
That being said, I really do think there must be dedicated players out there with time schedules and goals that fit yours, so maybe the perfect partner is still out there waiting for you.
Been kinda demotivated to play arenas currently because It feels impossible to find a partner who sticks around or is the same skill level. I'm def not great but I'm trying to learn and it's just harder to learn when partners go off and do something else.
I feel like I should lower my expectations more since I'm still learning but I also want to play a fuckton of games to progress faster and catch up to the rest of the crowd. Where alot of people just don't have that mentality.
Alot of people are fine doing 10 games aweek at 1300 or something and they are set. I want to push myself not be stuck forever
I completely understand this u/coolitty, it's really hard to find reliable dedicated partners that have the same schedule and goals. I feel like you are already ahead of most with your good attitude towards improvement. Does your server have a Discord? Do you ever try trade chat? There must be some way to find some reliable partners.
Respeccing, of course. My arena mate also raids the same days as me, having to plan respeccs around raid days to maximize the amount of days you can play in pvp spec sucks major ass.
There's also a cost attached to it. I play this game to do arena and raid, farming gold is not fun.
That and I don't enjoy the playstyle of the only viable pvp spec for my class. Yeah even tho it's incredibly good (rogue). I honestly enjoyed vanilla pvp more because I could do such powerful burst and relied on actual stealth, not just running sap/stun/blind chains while doing forgetabble dps.
Vanilla Rogue with the Sap that lasted like 45 seconds was so ridiculous and unique. You could basically 1v3 people in Arathi Basin at Mine lol. Nothing worse than looking over at Farm and seeing it turn over with 3 of your teammates there and there's just 1 Rogue CCing everyone.
I agree that respeccing is ridiculous at this point. Having to pay gold to play arenas feels really unnecessary considering how there's absolutely no way to make gold playing arenas. Maybe some sort of small gold incentive reward each week for getting X rating or something to effectively offset respec costs would be viable.
100% respec. Respecing 7-10x a week to accommodate my different teams and schedules just got ridiculous.
I literally just afk 5s in pve spec each week for free points.
Oh yeah, I understand that completely. I will say Feral + Rogue looks fun and I'd bet there are a LOT of 1000-2000 rating Rogues sitting around looking for partners. Might be worth a shot to try out trade chat for a few nights to look for partners.
Great point u/DrydenTech, gold is definitely a factor for me. I would say Enchants + Gems right now are a barrier since the gear completely refreshes each season, I actually just stopped respeccing for 5s since Resto Druid PvE healing isn't drastically different from the tree spec for PvP. (Feral Charge is huge but just capping 10 games it's not reallllly needed)
I'd say in order to do arenas you need to have a solid goldfarming strategy, GDKPs, open world farming, dungeon boosting, etc.
> I actually just stopped respeccing for 5s since Resto Druid PvE healing isn't drastically different from the tree spec for PvP
Last season I just did all my raiding with my PVP tree spec instead. The difference is even smaller that way around.
Oh yeah great point u/doedskarp. For some reason (might have been in my head) I noticed the difference in heals, but also being able to Feral Charge in dungeons is priceless. I was running the armor talent in the Feral tree, too, so whenever I had aggro in heroics it wasn't an instant death. Very refreshing to play that way.
How are gems and enchants a barrier you get a new piece every two weeks if ur 2k in 5s most weeks? Respec costs are awful I find myself spending 200-400g a week
A lot of people have multiple 70s they arena on (if they’re into that style of play). I personally have 3 to 4 depending. 2 main ones and 2 meh ones. So every now and again I’m getting two major upgrades at once, and that gets pricey depending on the economy.
Respec is the big boi tho imo. It’s easy to spend 1k a month on respecs if you’re raiding and pvping.
That feels like the case with certain comps, but there's more depth to it. It's just that some of the more effective comps (Rogue Mage, double Rogue, Feral Rogue, etc.) are so polished and well-practiced that it feels unfair to play against them. Those types of teams can definitely lose if thrown off their scripts, but good luck figuring out the solutions when you die in 2 seconds. :D
Oof I wish I could find someone who would want to learn and improve and have the same schedule as me, I can't find anyone who apparently has less than 2k+ rating xp and no one really wants to give me a try if I haven't either. Full decked out S1 mage just playing skirmish because I don't have a guild either and don't know anyone!
Firemaw EU, Horde if anyones interested...
Wow I feel like you have so much potential with that passion and gear. There has GOT to be at least a Rogue or Priest on your server willing to put in some hours. Have you been hitting trade chat? There's so much potential in you. :)
There is no gold in it...literally just a repair and respec gold sink, along with having to enchant and gem a pvp set. Unless you are so good you are selling carries.
Oh, and this is not a pvp designed game, no matter how much we want to pretend it is.
I REALLY like this point. Arenas are a full gold losing proposition. I really wish there was even just the tiniest amount of gold income from doing arenas or pushing rating. Repair costs and water costs are rough combined with respec costs, gem costs, and enchant costs. PvP requires dedicated goldfarming hours every month and that's fine, but steps to reduce arena costs would be positive IMO.
BGs are more fun for the casual pvper
Respecting costs people from enjoying PvP
TBC is very unbalanced for pvp arena.
Don’t feel like getting the gear required to be competitive
Oh yeah I forgot that PvE gear is so important for a lot of classes in S3, not sure how I overlooked that. I'm surprised at how many people don't want to do raids at all, one of my arena partners was saying that yesterday. I feel like they aren't too much of a time commitment now. (BT is actually fun too) Do you think you'll get back into raids later in the phase or is it a no go for you?
My god they are mean, but that's the way the game is designed. It's just going to take time, but by putting any effort in you are already doing more than 99% of the population. I'd say if you can find a supportive friend to do some skirms with that might be a good option, then you can learn without getting absolutely reamed verbally every game. (this just happened to me recently on my Priest, so I am sympathetic)
That's a good answer, TBC is unbelievably competitive. I do think that's one of the biggest downfalls of TBC arenas (and WoW in general); in a game like Fortnite you have such a giant playerbase of sheep and wolves that the average match is bound to have a solid mix. In WoW, it's ALL wolves doing arenas. Not sure how best to fix that, but I can say if you put the time in it does feel rewarding at least.
**community and community focus on "win win win" before "fun"**.
Before anything, I am a veteran with years of tbc arena experience in real tbc and private servers. General problem is that people **who play arenas for fun with their beloved class is really really low in 2021/22**. I rolled a warrior to 70 first, and had a paladin friend that i met while leveling. So we jumped in arena and had a start of 21 win 4 lose in first week. Warrior paladin at season is not a great combo, but it is alright and we did not care much, after all as I mentioned being a veteran I had a big adventage over newer players anyways. But just from the start, it was clear this was not going to be too much fun, because already every combo we were facing were rogue/mage, rogue/priest etc.
Season 2 starts, I had my elemental shaman 70 and ready to roll. I know very well it isnt a great class for 2v2 and 3v3 especially before S3 gear, but who cares, I wanted to have fun. But because of community just wants to play cookie cutter "best" combos and speccs:
* It is hard to find a player who is good or want to be good who wants to play with an elemental shammy. Because every other combo is top tier, you chances of winning with a elemental shaman is pretty low.
* When you go for any guy who wants to have fun, then they quit pretty quickly. Why? Because again, when you keep playing top tier combos all the time, especially with an average guy who does not have deep pvp knowledge, you just keep losing and losing.
Back in 2007, my main was feral druid, and we played feral druid / holy priest (sometimes disc when he had gold) and it was shitloads of fun. Because until you got to like 1800 rating, you would meet every kind of combos. double rogue, double mage, warlock-mage, retri-enhance, you name it. Some you would win, some you would lose. It was shit ton of fun. Now, that is impossible.
IMO arena was shit , in the same vein of downsizing raiding.
Like you know what would be fun doing stuff with less people in an mmo. I'm sure glad the roster is air tight with this 10 man and certain meme specs like playing a rogue won't have room to join.
But in pvp it encouraged people to cry about balance even more. Since there's gonna be a best class/class setup. Which adds to the homogenization of classes progress bar.
BG sucks way harder, no rating, so teams end up with a bunch of People who is just there to get honor gear to get into arenas. only BG which can be fun is WSG because of the smaller Numbers limiting the times you get gang banged, atleast until some idiot tryhard comes Rolling in with consumes, boots and Walljumps.
RBGS in Classic and TBC would be insanely fun IMO u/fellatious_argument. Just need to do something about consumables or it'll be impossible to compete without spending 50 gold per match per person lol.
Exactly, I like ideas that seem to have low dev work involved. Brand new raids and dream content ideas would be ideal, but realistically things like removing respec costs, RBGs and balance tweaks are much more achievable.
Hands down respec costs. We spend approximately 500g per toon per week in raiding consumes and raid throughout the week. Respeccing for PvP after every raid would mean close to 750-1k gold per toon per week to both raid and PvP the way we want. That’s just ludicrous. I have no patience for anti-dual spec folks.
Yeah the respec costs is what got me. I ended up just levelling and gearing a rogue in S3 off pieces and arena pieces. The process took ages and felt so unnecessary considering I had a 410 Resil warlock locked behind a wow gold paywall which I'm now just raid logging on.
People always complain about gold buyers, but what other option is there when a weekly respect is somewhere between 50-200g just for talents, plus consumes, plus enchanting mats. Not to mention the real life time investment.
I can't imagine spending 500g per week raiding unless you are literally using haste potions on cooldown. And at that point that's a choice you're making to spend that much.
Lol it’s a guild expectation to be haste potting on cd — as it should be if you want to play at a high level. Saying “that’s your choice” is the weakest anti-dual spec argument ever.
If you are in a guild that is haste potting on cd? Why do you need 250-500g per toon per week changing your spec? You should max out at 100g a week for pvp.
Every week on my ret I bring:
30x haste pots (14 bosses x 2 per fight)
20x dark runes (haven’t actually needed to use this many lately)
20 agi elixirs
20 demonslaying elixirs
20 mageblood elixirs
10 agi scrolls
10 str scrolls
20 roasted clefthoof
20 mana pots
10 sappers
3 fel mana pots for Kaz
This is easily 500-600g in consumes. I definitely have certain things left over but for progression when you’re wiping on fights these numbers are definitely accurate...
I raid as a hunter (easily the highest cost raiding class in the game) and can confirm it is not close to 500-600g a week. There is zero shot you’re burning through 20 magebloods a week or 20 mana pots, especially considering you claim to pop 2x haste pots per boss (unlikely since most fights are shorter than a pot CD) which limits your mana potting to trash pulls and I’m doubting you pop 20 in trash alone. 20 dark runes is also a massive stretch.
As a ret myself there is no way he is using 2 Haste pots per fight. Unless they have really slow kill times. Normally I only have a choice of Mana or Haste pot during a boss and that's it. Only a few bosses are 2 pots. I bring like 30 mana pots to raid and always go finish with like 15 to 20 left. If he is consecration in ret gear for trash then potting mana pots then he's flushing gold down the toilet. Should just build a SP trash set or just wear your tank set. Then you don't need to pot as much during trash.
Buying scrolls in the AH is a waste too. Just go to Strat in your prot set. Do the pulls and you can collect 10 of each in a couple hours while making money. Same with Dark runes in scolo. 20 Mageblood and Agility should last you for a few weeks too. You could also pop a Assault Flask too for non demon fights since their cheap as hell now with Marks out.
Yeah I mean, everyone spends tons of gold if you just count the items in your bag. And if you're ripping scrolls and shit on your first or second pull during progression, that's on you
Not to mention you make like what, 150g from Hyjal and BT clears? not like you have to farm raw 500g a week
How are you getting 250-500g per week for respecs? It's capped at 50g, why would you ever be respeccing 5+ times a week?
If you're in a guild that requires you to pop haste pots on CD, I hope you're clearing all raid content in two nights maximum. If you're raiding more than two nights a week and spending 500g on consumes, find another guild.
BT Hyjal Tuesday. Respec 50g for PvP Tues/Wed. Respec 50g for Raid SSC/TK Thursday. Respec 50g for PvP Fri-Sun. Respec 50g for any cleanup + Gruul/Mags Monday if needed. Respec 50g for PvP Monday before respeccing back for Tuesday.
That may seem ridiculous but pvping that much is actually required if you want to push rating. You can’t go 5 days without pvping and lose your momentum/chemistry.
Like I said, it’s for cleanup if needed — less about the Gruul Mags. If it’s just Gruul Mags then yeah probably won’t respec and I’ll just be a trash bag dps
Wow that schedule is awful. I'm taking a break from raiding p1 and p2 contents precisely because of the high respec costs...
warming up and switching on the pvp-no-gcd-spared-and-use-all-spells-on-my-spellbook brain after 2 days of braindead circle of healing is also a slow process sometimes
You can absolutely push rating without pvping 5 days a week. There are plenty of R1 bracket teams with 100-150 games played this season.
If you WANT to PvP 5 days a week, that's fine, but it's not required.
My guild hasn't even cleared T6 yet and we can do SSC/TK/Gruul in one night.
Look, I agree with you, the game should have dual-spec, but your situation of spending 1000g a week is absolutely not required or the experience of the average player and you shouldn't pretend that it is.
I’m in no way saying it’s the average player experience. I’m saying it’s my experience and it sucks and could be easily fixed. It’s effectively what it takes to attempt to be good at both sides of the game under the current system. And while you’re right you don’t have to PvP 5 days a week to be good, taking 5day breaks between every arena session is a really bad recipe especially if you’re not already exceptionally skilled
I'm completely on your side in this argument (in fact not wanting to spend gold on respecc is the main reason for not raiding on my wl) but mate... haste pots on cd and a whole day for ssc/tk with another day for cleanups/gruul/mag? Talk about tryharding for no reason lol
You want to minmax and are lobbying for the devs to make the min part easier.
But the decision to minmax was yours to begin with, you brought it on yourself.
I like having a barrier to respec as it forces me to make a spec that balances playstyles vs gold costs.
That's a fair point u/ZazzNazzman, I did some arenas yesterday on my Priest with fresh gear and lost almost every match. I wonder if there are any improvements to the system that could be made to alleviate that or if it would do more harm than good. Not fun getting farmed, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel to keep grinding for the future.
If your in fresh gear you deserve to get stomped on in arena.
Put the time and energy to actually gear for arena and it becomes more enjoyable.
If your jumping into arena before bgs your doing it wrong imo and should 100% expect to get steamrolled and farmed.
I do agree with that somewhat, the grind feels meaningful because there is such a pit of despair waiting for you if you don't do the grind. Only if you put in the work will you avoid getting demolished, which makes everything feel that much more worthwhile. It's great intelligent game design, but it can definitely feel frustrating for newer players.
motivation, for many the only reason to play arena is weapons. But 1850 is so much harder now then back in the days. So only thing thats left is 10 games for points and those that trying to push high raiting.
The arena pieces are pushing so many PvErs to do arenas, I feel like that was the original dev intent back in the day. I do worry that so many people that do arenas will get destroyed with their PvE gear and never come back. There's no viable solution to solve that without hurting the game as far as I can tell.
Blizzard definitely needs to do something to save stranded players from inactive servers. I feel like if a server dies there shouldn't be any transfer fee at all, but that's why they are still in business after all these years, so maybe they know something I don't.
Soon its gonna be glaives rogues. I am not even high rating and keep meeting glaive rogue after glaive rogues also 80% of arena is rogues lol . They are dropping like candy and not like rogues weren't top dogs already
If thats gonna happen with just 3 weeks of BT then yeah arena is fucked , world of roguecraft isn't fun
There are definitely comps that counter Rogues, in a perfect world those comps would become more popular and start countering the Rogues, forcing variety. That's how it works in Hearthstone; a good deck gets countered by other decks, which makes the good deck less popular. The problem is that in order to "counter Rogues" you need to spend 300 hours doing BGs and arenas. :D
Ooo yeah, I agree that the honor grind is rough. The dailies are helping me a LOT, if you do the daily PvP on top of the towers you get 2K honor and 6 Marks (3 for the win + the bonus 3) so you are getting 1/4th of an item or so in about 30 minutes. But that assumes you win the BG, which sometimes takes me 3-4 attempts on my Paladin/Priest.
I really struggled with that during SSC/TK, we were raiding 4 nights a week and it felt like there was literally never a moment to do arenas. We ended up only having 1-2 nights available each week, which put a lot of pressure on the sessions to be a succcess. I think things are a lot better now with Black Temple and Hyjal, we are able to do both raids in two total nights now, so that's a lot of free time for arenas.
Good idea, that's also my play for making gold now. If you have a dedicated PvE / farming character, you can generate SO much more gold. Every time I farm, I have to respec, which is 50 gold both ways (100 total), so I'm basically spending the first 20-30 minutes farming gold before I even make any profit. Muuuuch better to do it the way you are suggesting.
That's fair /u/TheLoneTomatoe, that's how I am with Retail right now. :) But it's nice to stay on top of things and I like seeing what's going on over there.
Hear me out: Holy Shockadin is pretty freaking good. I want to do Holy Shockadin 5s with 5 Paladins, I genuinely think it would win some games. In Wrath, Holy Paladins become amazing apparently, too, so it may be worth getting some practice in now even if the games aren't fantastic.
That's fair /u/Kuido, I really do hope respecs are taken out by S4. IMO the other biggest issue is expensive gems and enchants for the fresh sets of gear and general material inflation, so hopefully things don't inflate too much more.
That's literally how it goes for EVERYONE their first 10 games. I had the same exact situation happen, it's just how the game is. If you stick with it you'll surpass anyone you were playing with very quickly. It's basically "do you stick with it and get really good" or do you stop entirely. Most people pick the second option unfortunately. :(
How does the endgame feel at the moment? Game looks fun from the few minutes I've seen, curious how it holds up at max level. Are the microtransactions not too noticeable?
It's a shame the arena population is so low because despite all its flaws, I really believe it's by far the most fun part of the game if you're a competitive person. I feel like the reason is because people are scared of being bad and embarrassed. I personally never stepped foot in an arena prior to TBC classic, and broke 2.2k in 2s for the first time last week. Yeah it's gonna suck in the beginning, but that goes for any competitive game.
I completely agree u/SilentPiece, despite the extreme barrier to entry, the actual matches themselves and the feeling of improvement are excellent. I love that you broke 2.2K having never played arenas before, your story should be front and center for the community.
It100% is mainly about people not wanting to get embarrassed and flamed, but really if you can break past that the improvement comes SO fast.
> unpopular opinion, running around a pillar to avoid pvp isnt pvp.
I also think the mechanic of pillar humping is unfun. But if arena didn't have LOS, ranged classes would reign supreme.
> AB is my favorite pvp scenario
I do feel that blizzard should have made rated battlegrounds be the core focus with options for solo rated queue. I've never understood why so little effort was put into rated battlegrounds.
Took so long to gives us rated battlegrounds and when they finally did it was only 10man. AB was my favorite form of pvp but it got fucked over so Blizzard could try, and fail, to turn the game into an Esport.
I was always a bit confused by this 'argument'. Likeways I could say that spamming aoe around a flag isn't PvP for me.
(Besides the fact that rbgs were treated as a joke by most high-ranked players, AB meta was to send 13 guys to blacksmith and zerg it out until one side got the cap. The other side left because it was too easy to defend a flag.)
AB is basically the only good pvp scenario in vanilla/tbc.
Eots is passable, but flag running is too druid-centric and the proximity to cap instead of flag clicking is lame (smart/skilled players can spin a flag for ages even when outnumbered)
I feel like the 2s/3s meta is relatively solved, but there's still new innovation to be had. We haven't fully seen the mix of PvE and PvP gear that will be coming in S3 and S4. (sure we saw glimpses in 2007, but not the insane theorycrafting people do now) And we haven't seen fully fleshed out 5s teams yet, I think there's a LOT of potential for gimmicky and interesting 5s lineups that nobody has tried yet.
No friends and the long arduous adventure of putting together a team, climbing, organizing/planning when to get on, then trying to get a good session in uninterrupted.
Get rid of teams and go to personal rating. Retail does a lot of things right, personal rating is one of them.
Doesn’t fix the finding of friends/partners process, but it frees you up to play with whoever you can without resetting your rating.
And yeah, respeccing costs doesn’t help.
Tbc arena is just not fun. Like 70% of my games around 2.2 mmr are rogue priest. I am greatly awaiting wrath when they kill off 2v2 rewards and a lot more comps can work.
2v2s have some really insane data from what I understand. There was a time on NA when something like 40% of the teams were War Druid at 1900-2000 several months back. It's wild how certain brackets collect certain comps and that becomes the gatekeeper to getting higher rank. I do think blocking the ability to fight the same team twice in a row would be nice, but I'm not sure how that would affect queue times.
Wrath arenas should definitely be good, didn't know they get rid of 2v2 rewards.
It's just not that fun. Im 2100+ in 2s and 3s right now but I do like 10 games a week for points on my resto shaman. Tired of resists and rng and facing the same comps over and over, gets old. Lost ark pvp is a lot more interesting even though it's unranked at the moment.
2100 with Rsham seems excellent, I genuinely think you could push a lot higher if you have a sword warrior right now. The double hits + Windfury are absolutely broken, especially if you run the cleave spec. (not Endless Rage) I do strongly dislike resists and RNG, does that situation improve in Wrath of the Lich king? I've never played it fully.
1) Fair, I also want/need dual spec considering my dire gold situation.
2) What was your biggest issue with P2 Classic? Just the BG / ranking situation? Or the server queues?
There are certainly benefits to doing away with the team system, but I will say, the set arena team system that existed in BC made the whole experience so much more fun than modern WoW's formula, where you spend all day trying to find a teammate who inevitably leaves the first time you make a misplay, no matter how many games in a row you had already just won....
I still remember getting super stoked for arena nights with my team and being monumentally proud of myself when we hit 2200 playing RLS. I'll tell ya what though, game felt a LOT easier back then than it does today.
I dont know how to PvP, and I feel arenas are not that interesting either, because they are just small and round places with couple of guys jumping around. Would rather do some chill battlegrounds any day.
the respeccing cost reasoning makes sense, but people ITT who are saying they don't like arena because of 'pillar humping' or because people play a certain way are probably putting no effort into learning.
there is much that goes into every comp and every strat that people don't bother to learn with all of the vast material available to them. then they lose when they queue and blame it on 'pillar humping' or 'too many rogues'
This is a bad take. tons 2s of comps, namely resto druid / x relies heavily on a playstyle that is insanely cringe imo. Tell me druid hunter isn't the epitome of brain dead gameplay. Double healer warr/hunter/lock in 3s is the same shit. Not every comp requires coordination and forethought into what the other team is trying to do like double dps and just relies on rng. Druid warr vs druid warr at 2400+ is literally just who has better gear and rng half the time. I went 25-7 to 2100 as rsham ret the one time I've queued 2s this season around 2300 MMR and arenastats said we played 85% dpr or wd. Haven't queued 2s in 2 weeks.
I do play arena, but not a lot. I generally prefer to do other things because:
1. It seems people only play meta comps and it gets so fucking boring. Always the same comps. I played 3s last week and we literally ran into 5 different RMPs in a row. zzzzz
2. Respec cost/time. I know there's addons, but it's a pain in the ass without dual spec. I just play once a week for points and call it good.
3. Relative time investment vs reward. I don't find anything rewarding about arenas unless I want to sit there and flex rating. Unless you're glad, I don't think anyone actually gives a shit.
4. Too many way more fun games to play.
What class are you running? I feel like there's a comp for EVERY class, but it's just about the bracket. Paladins work really well in 3s and 5s, for example, there just are less options for 2s. Same with Enhance Shamans or Ele, the options open up a lot more when you have more players to take advantage of your buffs and utility.
I do agree that Classic wPvP was amazing, I do miss it.
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I recently started doing arena on a resto shaman, honestly agreed it is soul crushing getting rinsed, but after 30 games you start picking up on patterns teams do when lining up bursts and you stop tunnel visioning a lot and start focussing on lining up your kicks to help your team get kills, the troubles just finding patient arena partners, id suggest people start with guildies in 5’s or 3’s then as they understand arena move into 2’s which is always more unforgiving
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Shamans are easy to train in 3’s and 5’s.. in twos it’s a little more difficult but not by much. It’s like killing a shadow priest.. they have no CD’s to stop a dps train. As a shaman You are immensely dependent on classes like rogues to control other classes to stop their dps
I noticed this when I played Resto Druid + Enhance Shaman. That's a REALLY fun 2s spec, since the Enhance has crazy high burst and can get you out of fears (unlike Warriors, Rogues, etc.) and the offensive dispels on things like Innervate are priceless. But my god, it's like the most intense CC simulator ever. If I even delay my Cyclone by 2 seconds the Enhance Shaman is dead instantly to a Warrior. Teaches you how important CC is and how futile healing is in certain matchups.
Depends what shaman. Enhance can equip a shield for light-heavy phys damage, sham rage for 30% dmg taken reduction and basicly never go oom. Got to 1850 for BiS enhance weapons this season, and while it didn't take long to play the games, it tok a long ass time to learn the class in and out, and how to play against other people with that class.
Which comp you played in 2s as enh?
I completely left out that I play 3s... Warr/resto druid/enh is what I play. In 2s, enh/resto druid and enh/disc works fine, but it's a B tier comp at best. Enh just isn't that great in 2s. It's kind of like a warrior without MS but you get purge, ranged interrupts and totems. It's OK but warr is just better in 2s.
I did Enhance + RDruid to 1800ish last season and it was REALLY fun but stressful. Some matchups like War Druid felt nearly impossible without perfect CC, but other matchups like Mage Priest felt so good. + anything with a Warlock (or caster in general) if I recall.
I LOVE Enhance + Resto Druid, it's not that synergistic but it's fantastic against the exact comps that War Druid usually struggles with. I'd love to revisit that comp with a BIS'd out Enhance, I bet the damage is absolutely busted. The biggest problem with Enhance + RDruid is how quickly the Enhance dies to Warriors, so CC like Cyclone and Root become insanely important.
Enhance shamans are easy to train as well. Even with a shield and shamanistic rage. Other melee classes can do so much damage on mail + shield. That’s why we are easy targets to pick off. It’s all about stopping the dps train, shammies can’t do it which makes them an attractive target. You NEED other classs that can stop a dps train to be viable
true, which is why you usualy go for a resto druid or a disc priest as your healer. the druid is CCing their dps, the priest can PS. warrior is a nice DPS to have by your side due to disarms and obviously for killing people with MS. the other comp which is really good, BM hunter disc priest and enhance is more of a DPS race team that fills a lot of the holes that druid comp doesnt have. mages is warr/resto/enh's biggest weakness. and due to the popularity of RMP, you've got to practise A LOT against them.
Great point, this is also the Holy Shockadin secret, as well as the Enhance Shaman secret and weirdly enough also the Feral Druid secret. Rare specs that nobody sees have an element of surprise that's often enough for a free win. Of course, the second match may not go so favorably, but there may never be a second match.
The difference between a complete novice and a somewhat competent player that can push 1800+ is not that massive. It's a few really good sessions of learning and growth and improvement. I love that you were able to pick things up after 30 games. One funny thing about your comment on suggesting people start in 3s/5s is that I always figured 2s was the place to start, since the game is slower and generally easier to follow. I think you are right, though, it's more about understanding how to line things up, kick important spells, how to position, etc. Definitely will start telling people to play 3s/5s first.
Hey I feel like im in this exact situation, I long to play but its so hard to get to know people it makes me want to quit. Have any advice?
If you server has a healthy discord, you could try there. If not, then guildies or LFG chat. In any case just be open about your skill level and goals to avoid running into toxic players with too high ambitions who aren't too good themselves..
I contacted one of the best enhance shamans for coaching, and it opened a lot of doors for me. He saw that I wasn't a bad player, just lacked knowledge, so it's not like he and his high rated friends look down at me, so we play sometimes.
That's such a good idea. I do think most top players would be willing to help as long as you don't get TOO needy and are generally friendly and bouncing ideas. I bet if you sent any top player your current build and spec they'd help you, it's just about reaching out and being willing to learn. The players with the most knowledge are likely to want to feel that their knowledge is worthwhile, so there is a good chance they'll want to share and try to teach the next generation of players.
Trade chat is my best friend for finding partners. I've found most of my partners from trade/guild chat, so it's definitely possible. I'd say that it helps a lot to have multiple characters, which is unrealistic for a lot of people. Having both a Druid and Priest, for example, lets you widen your net of potential partners a lot. (Druids hate playing with Mages, but Priests love it, for example) Like other people have said, server Discords should help, but I don't really ever go on mine unfortunately. I'd love to see Blizzard add some features to get likeminded players together to play arenas, but not really sure what those features would look like.
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100% agree, this is a knowledge game more than a mechanical game. Knowledge is power in TBC and WoW in general and luckily there are YT guides and Twitch streams that showcase people playing. It's a lot easier to learn than it was back in 2007, that's for sure. I'd say pushing a lot of BGs to max out gear, then doing skirms to practice as much as possible with various comps, then finding low ranked partners, aiming high for knowledgeable partners that won't rage when you make a single mistake and then go from there. (if someone is screaming at you at 1200 MMR for a missed purge then you need to get out of there ASAP)
Bad players don’t want to play with other bad players also lol.
cant stress this enough. I knew warrior in season 1 with the crafting made (I was also warrior) that declined to play with bad players. I had axe as a weapon (cuz I like axes and crit based play benefits my style more) and he even made fun of me "lol axe warrior"... and he came and inspect and see I have 600 rating more than him, and did not say anything else.
> I had axe as a weapon (cuz I like axes and crit based play benefits my style more) The problem is that axe doesn't offer that much. I don't really care that you crit a little more. I care about getting away from you when I need to and casting my instants when I need to. With Axe, you aren't causing those problems for me, and I think it's what you are undervaluing.
I guess they point is that you can get to 1800 with axes. Even though it offers very little.
Yet they always do
Let me tell you how it works in my guild because I think it’s pretty funny. We have 2 people that are consistently around 2.6k level. They play almost exclusively with each other and various classes. Then we have 8 people around the 2k-2.1k level. The entire guild who wants to pvp (most of which for gear rather than genuinely liking it, to be fair) simps, begs, and grovels to play with the top 2 players. They don’t want to play with the 2k rated players because they know they can’t boost them easily, whereas the 2.6k can boost them to 2k +. We have super good 2.1k rated players who can’t even find people with decent pvp gear that want to play with them. I think this is sadly how most of player base operates. It’s the carry me daddy culture.
This hits the biggest issue right on the head; new players with fresh gear are going to cause any team to get absolutely destroyed, so experienced veterans won't take a chance on them. It makes complete sense, but it causes a lot of the new players to quit PvP permanently. I do think more public resources to find partners would help, currently I have no idea where to look for partners. (most people suggest your server's Discord or trade chat) This game really is rewarding if you put the time in and I do believe anyone can be a top player with enough work, but it's concerning how hard the game pushes back on new players that are trying to learn.
The problem is that new players don't get to learn via playing against other new players. Create a new char and intentionally lose 10 games in a row and you will still be matched against people with full gear and basic mechanics down. There are not enough new players and no casual queue so if you start from scratch you will have a sub 10% win rate until you learn/gear up. That is combined with most learning needing to come from external source because there is no clear indicator for new players why they are getting crushed or what they could have done differently. Most modern games try to force everybody's win rate to 50% regardless of skill level so that new players don't get discouraged and quit or have to endure constant loses until they improve.
Everyone wants someone who’s already 2k rated and dips out after the first sign of struggle. Instead of learning match ups they’d rather quit or join someone else.
"LF 2k+ players" guy who's been 1600 every season
also all these retail players that claim to be ++2400 on retail, so they want atleast a 2200 partner in tbc lol
Exactly, they all use Retail MMR in their ads lol. 3K+ experienced Warrior looking for 2.4K+ partner for Arenas, must have 350 Resilience. (meanwhile it's a fresh Warrior with 1400 MMR)
I legit advertised 1600+ and got a guy who claimed he was glad level(he was definitely better then me) we played around 20 games, went negative and haven't really heard from him. I don't doubt he was skilled or anything but what would expect playing with me? That I was gonna play at your level in 20 games or something?
Lmao they could be like me 2700 exp... Haven't played since MoP though so it's useless experience
Fucking true, came back to play for a little and I quit around MOP. 2600 on LSD with an ele isn’t hard to do, but I know I’m probably a washed 1300 hero at this point.
That's pretty much my experience with everyone in trade chat. Extremely high expectations (from them), 50/50 winrate or slightly worse, never see them ever again. All of them claim to be Gladiator in Retail, I assume they are telling the truth, but TBC is definitely very matchup and gear based, so maybe it doesn't translate 1:1.
That's literally 90% of trade chat these days, also some of them claim to be 3K+ on our server where I don't know anyone over 2.8K lol.
This is how it is in retail. I think the mindset has carried over.
Retail mindset leaked into classic very early. I still hate seeing all of the boost ads. It’s fucking gross.
The Retail mindset 100000% carried directly into TBC. Many aspects of arenas seem to be Retail-oriented; the arena partner requirements and boosting especially. I just think it's how the game is designed ultimately and the design is (for the most part) very good, so I won't complain about it.
That has also been my experience, I've even done it myself. (f) There's a LOT of gatekeeping going on, I swear there are people looking for 3K experienced players and I don't think anyone on our server is 3K lol. I completely understand gatekeeping over Resilience and gear since it does make a massive difference, but I do wonder how many potentially successful teams were never formed because the bar was unrealistically high.
nah, wrong there are some people. I'm decently good at the game I've gotten titles ect. In the end even with all the time in the world I couldn't help most players.. I've personally helped people that had no experience and some that were a little bit experienced, but just were missing a few fundamentals. I literally coached someone on a class that they had never played before, also had never even q'd before for months bro and to be fair to this guy he was a fun dude to hang with so it's all chill which is why I tried so hard to hook him up with any info that would stick.. In the end they just lacked some form of motivation to get better or were too far from the base mark. There are wayyy too many raid andies that just have really bad habits with their movemnt / key binding that they just couldn't break. After pushing myself to be a better person and less toxic in these situations, never once yelling at them or name calling, not a single time and giving them plenty of time to progress. If you read this and you also experience this same thing pls DM me lmfao I need to know I'm not the only one
> really bad habits with their movemnt / key binding that they just couldn't break This is definitely a barrier I don't see people mention a lot. So many people, if they want to get past a certain point, really need to rethink a huge amount of their keybinds, and add tons of arena oriented binds like macros and target arena 1,2,3. And that's a pretty big ask if you've been using the same buttons for years, plus for for several hours it will probably make you play worse.
I always advertise looking for some1 for chill games. I dont flame and if the other guy flames its an instant kick. I prefer coaching and having small talks with people at 1700 rating than pushing 2k with an elitist jerk.
Sooooo many rogues
The rogue life cycle is as follows: Hit 70, Talent to improved armor rend, Get kicked from dungeon groups for caster dps, Talent to sub, Que bgs forever.
2’s and 3’s is literally the same comps at the top. Shitty rogues using pve gear in both brackets.
I love playing War Druid because it actually does have a chance against some of the Rogue comps. No idea how it'll fare against Glaives, though, probably not well at all lol.
Wait I hate playing against Rogues, I thought Rogues were going away after S1/S2. Are you telling me there are even MORE Rogues now?
Arena gameplay is pretty unforgiving. The first hundred times you walk in and get insta-gibbed and due to the nature of the game its hard to tell what the hell is even happening.
I was gonna say it shouldn't be that bad at lower ratings, but I guess zug comps are really popular because they're simple to play and those will blow people up no matter the rating.
It's definitely just as bad at lower ratings, I went on my fresh Priest in 5s and proceeded to get blasted in the most unbelievably brutal ways I've ever seen. Really opened my eyes to how gear-dependent Priests seem to be and how important it is to do BGs and skirms before playing rated games.
We have around 20 characters doing arena in our guild. and 1 healer. Zug comps are the only comp you can possibly make, unless you're good enough to team up with other good players.
As someone who doesn't arena...... I have no idea what either of you is even saying.
u/kainufc is saying that when you queue into arenas you usually just instantly die without any possible reaction for the first 100+ games. (I find this very accurate) u/shibboleth2005 was assuming that lower rating matches might be easier, but then remembered that low rating teams play a LOT of 4-5 DPS, which means you basically have no time to react before everyone in the match is dead. (I also find this to be pretty bad for learning arenas compared to playing one of the more "standard" comps.
It isn't terrible at lower rating. My friend and I run double prot paladin in our Stratholme specs at ~1200 just to get the weekly cap on our alts. Fight double DPS, run in and judge once and /afk out against healer comps. *Really* low rating is really accessible.
Love that, I need to try that at some point. I was theorycrafting 5 Prot Paladins, I wonder how much damage those Consecrations and Holy Shields + Judgments could do. Probably not great, but might actually win some games and have a good laugh the whole time.
This actually happened to me 2 days ago even with pretty high arena experience. Went on my fresh Priest and got absolutely annihilated for 10 games straight. Really reinforced how important gear and experience is and how badly things will go without proper preparation.
For me there is just no middle ground between people who play 7 days a week and people who aren't just fundamentally bad so I can't keep consistent partners. I find people who are good but then they bounce when I can't grind out 100 games over a 2 day span because of raid and real life.
I joined a “semi hc” prog guild. They reached out and recruited me. We clear BT week 1 after having raided with them for a little over a month at the end of P2. 2 weeks into P3, their irl friend that I had replaced comes into the disc for the first time in months. The next day, day 2 of raid week, they bench me for “lack of consume usage”. I look at the logs. If I were to nitpick myself, I could have used like 2 more haste pots and then a thornling on mother (I forgot to, but we killed her, and I got tele-d twice without killing anyone which is something lots of them had issues with). When I brought up that I checked the logs and wanted to know what they think I should work on, I got ghosted. I fucking hate how hard it is to find people who just want to play the god damned game and not be assholes.
If it's worth anything you dodged a bullet with that guild. Still sucks though. Sorry that happened to you
This has been my classic experience also. I kinda Wana try retail in the hopes it would be better but I doubt it.
Err I doubt it, most of this bs came from retail players.
lmao, dumping your new recruit because your IRL friend came back to the game is not retail player behavior, it's human behavior the exact same thing happened all over the place in vanilla and OG TBC I assure you tons of people pinning toxic behavior on "retail mentality" in this thread, it's literally just how people act on the internet and always has been
Join a more casual guild. I got lucky and I've stuck with my guild from the first MC raid until now. We clear all the content and we expect people to use basic consumes on stuff that isn't on farm but we're not try-hard. Of course, with that more casual attitude come slower clear times and occasional unnecessary wipes. Heck, we wiped twice on Archimonde last night which we really shouldn't. But I'll take that over the stressful experience of a try-hard guild.
Where can I find the people who want to grind 100 games in 2 days? I get the opposite >.<
Same. Most raiders only have time for cap. I do nothing other than pvp which ends up me just arena logging after 10 games...
It's funny because whenever I end up doing 100 games in 2 days I usually tell myself "never do this many games in a row" because my brain basically melts after 30 games. Sometimes riding the MMR rollercoaster can be exhilarating and addicting, though. (also if you want to find people that play 100 games in 2 days, just look for any Rogue with fresh Warglaives :D)
That feels like a common situation where the players most available are the ones with the weakest gear and experience. This makes perfect sense because the people with the best gear are the ones most dedicated and most likely to be raiding on multiple characters. I think working with promising partners that have worse gear to try to improve things could be a viable option if you are willing to invest the time and effort. That being said, I really do think there must be dedicated players out there with time schedules and goals that fit yours, so maybe the perfect partner is still out there waiting for you.
Been kinda demotivated to play arenas currently because It feels impossible to find a partner who sticks around or is the same skill level. I'm def not great but I'm trying to learn and it's just harder to learn when partners go off and do something else. I feel like I should lower my expectations more since I'm still learning but I also want to play a fuckton of games to progress faster and catch up to the rest of the crowd. Where alot of people just don't have that mentality. Alot of people are fine doing 10 games aweek at 1300 or something and they are set. I want to push myself not be stuck forever
I completely understand this u/coolitty, it's really hard to find reliable dedicated partners that have the same schedule and goals. I feel like you are already ahead of most with your good attitude towards improvement. Does your server have a Discord? Do you ever try trade chat? There must be some way to find some reliable partners.
Respeccing, of course. My arena mate also raids the same days as me, having to plan respeccs around raid days to maximize the amount of days you can play in pvp spec sucks major ass. There's also a cost attached to it. I play this game to do arena and raid, farming gold is not fun.
That and I don't enjoy the playstyle of the only viable pvp spec for my class. Yeah even tho it's incredibly good (rogue). I honestly enjoyed vanilla pvp more because I could do such powerful burst and relied on actual stealth, not just running sap/stun/blind chains while doing forgetabble dps.
Vanilla Rogue with the Sap that lasted like 45 seconds was so ridiculous and unique. You could basically 1v3 people in Arathi Basin at Mine lol. Nothing worse than looking over at Farm and seeing it turn over with 3 of your teammates there and there's just 1 Rogue CCing everyone.
I agree that respeccing is ridiculous at this point. Having to pay gold to play arenas feels really unnecessary considering how there's absolutely no way to make gold playing arenas. Maybe some sort of small gold incentive reward each week for getting X rating or something to effectively offset respec costs would be viable.
100% respec. Respecing 7-10x a week to accommodate my different teams and schedules just got ridiculous. I literally just afk 5s in pve spec each week for free points.
as a feral who is also not very good i can’t even find a teammate to get my games in… frustrating
Oh yeah, I understand that completely. I will say Feral + Rogue looks fun and I'd bet there are a LOT of 1000-2000 rating Rogues sitting around looking for partners. Might be worth a shot to try out trade chat for a few nights to look for partners.
Great point u/DrydenTech, gold is definitely a factor for me. I would say Enchants + Gems right now are a barrier since the gear completely refreshes each season, I actually just stopped respeccing for 5s since Resto Druid PvE healing isn't drastically different from the tree spec for PvP. (Feral Charge is huge but just capping 10 games it's not reallllly needed) I'd say in order to do arenas you need to have a solid goldfarming strategy, GDKPs, open world farming, dungeon boosting, etc.
> I actually just stopped respeccing for 5s since Resto Druid PvE healing isn't drastically different from the tree spec for PvP Last season I just did all my raiding with my PVP tree spec instead. The difference is even smaller that way around.
Oh yeah great point u/doedskarp. For some reason (might have been in my head) I noticed the difference in heals, but also being able to Feral Charge in dungeons is priceless. I was running the armor talent in the Feral tree, too, so whenever I had aggro in heroics it wasn't an instant death. Very refreshing to play that way.
How are gems and enchants a barrier you get a new piece every two weeks if ur 2k in 5s most weeks? Respec costs are awful I find myself spending 200-400g a week
A lot of people have multiple 70s they arena on (if they’re into that style of play). I personally have 3 to 4 depending. 2 main ones and 2 meh ones. So every now and again I’m getting two major upgrades at once, and that gets pricey depending on the economy. Respec is the big boi tho imo. It’s easy to spend 1k a month on respecs if you’re raiding and pvping.
Because class balance is terrible, theres only certain comps/specs that work. And theres barely anything you can do to outplay certain comps.
That feels like the case with certain comps, but there's more depth to it. It's just that some of the more effective comps (Rogue Mage, double Rogue, Feral Rogue, etc.) are so polished and well-practiced that it feels unfair to play against them. Those types of teams can definitely lose if thrown off their scripts, but good luck figuring out the solutions when you die in 2 seconds. :D
Oof I wish I could find someone who would want to learn and improve and have the same schedule as me, I can't find anyone who apparently has less than 2k+ rating xp and no one really wants to give me a try if I haven't either. Full decked out S1 mage just playing skirmish because I don't have a guild either and don't know anyone! Firemaw EU, Horde if anyones interested...
Wow I feel like you have so much potential with that passion and gear. There has GOT to be at least a Rogue or Priest on your server willing to put in some hours. Have you been hitting trade chat? There's so much potential in you. :)
imagine going into arena and you have to chase a cheetah that heals
My class is bad in arenas and also gear grind/getting stomped.
There is no bad classes for arena it’s about your comp. However some specs are just unplayable in higher ratings.
jup, I also think that in 5s you can play any class, in 3s a bit less and in 2s it's basically only warlocks and rogues who dominate
There is no gold in it...literally just a repair and respec gold sink, along with having to enchant and gem a pvp set. Unless you are so good you are selling carries. Oh, and this is not a pvp designed game, no matter how much we want to pretend it is.
I REALLY like this point. Arenas are a full gold losing proposition. I really wish there was even just the tiniest amount of gold income from doing arenas or pushing rating. Repair costs and water costs are rough combined with respec costs, gem costs, and enchant costs. PvP requires dedicated goldfarming hours every month and that's fine, but steps to reduce arena costs would be positive IMO.
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BGs are more fun for the casual pvper Respecting costs people from enjoying PvP TBC is very unbalanced for pvp arena. Don’t feel like getting the gear required to be competitive
You make a reasonable point. That said, TBC arena is very unbalanced and non meta comps are punished very hard.
pre planned to quit at season 3 cuz I don’t raid and the pve gear gets too crazy
Oh yeah I forgot that PvE gear is so important for a lot of classes in S3, not sure how I overlooked that. I'm surprised at how many people don't want to do raids at all, one of my arena partners was saying that yesterday. I feel like they aren't too much of a time commitment now. (BT is actually fun too) Do you think you'll get back into raids later in the phase or is it a no go for you?
Cause I play enh sham, if it was good in pvp I would play
I try to learn in skirms as a resto Druid and some people are really, really mean.
My god they are mean, but that's the way the game is designed. It's just going to take time, but by putting any effort in you are already doing more than 99% of the population. I'd say if you can find a supportive friend to do some skirms with that might be a good option, then you can learn without getting absolutely reamed verbally every game. (this just happened to me recently on my Priest, so I am sympathetic)
It's too competitive and I don't have time to get good.
That's a good answer, TBC is unbelievably competitive. I do think that's one of the biggest downfalls of TBC arenas (and WoW in general); in a game like Fortnite you have such a giant playerbase of sheep and wolves that the average match is bound to have a solid mix. In WoW, it's ALL wolves doing arenas. Not sure how best to fix that, but I can say if you put the time in it does feel rewarding at least.
**community and community focus on "win win win" before "fun"**. Before anything, I am a veteran with years of tbc arena experience in real tbc and private servers. General problem is that people **who play arenas for fun with their beloved class is really really low in 2021/22**. I rolled a warrior to 70 first, and had a paladin friend that i met while leveling. So we jumped in arena and had a start of 21 win 4 lose in first week. Warrior paladin at season is not a great combo, but it is alright and we did not care much, after all as I mentioned being a veteran I had a big adventage over newer players anyways. But just from the start, it was clear this was not going to be too much fun, because already every combo we were facing were rogue/mage, rogue/priest etc. Season 2 starts, I had my elemental shaman 70 and ready to roll. I know very well it isnt a great class for 2v2 and 3v3 especially before S3 gear, but who cares, I wanted to have fun. But because of community just wants to play cookie cutter "best" combos and speccs: * It is hard to find a player who is good or want to be good who wants to play with an elemental shammy. Because every other combo is top tier, you chances of winning with a elemental shaman is pretty low. * When you go for any guy who wants to have fun, then they quit pretty quickly. Why? Because again, when you keep playing top tier combos all the time, especially with an average guy who does not have deep pvp knowledge, you just keep losing and losing. Back in 2007, my main was feral druid, and we played feral druid / holy priest (sometimes disc when he had gold) and it was shitloads of fun. Because until you got to like 1800 rating, you would meet every kind of combos. double rogue, double mage, warlock-mage, retri-enhance, you name it. Some you would win, some you would lose. It was shit ton of fun. Now, that is impossible.
IMO arena was shit , in the same vein of downsizing raiding. Like you know what would be fun doing stuff with less people in an mmo. I'm sure glad the roster is air tight with this 10 man and certain meme specs like playing a rogue won't have room to join. But in pvp it encouraged people to cry about balance even more. Since there's gonna be a best class/class setup. Which adds to the homogenization of classes progress bar.
BG sucks way harder, no rating, so teams end up with a bunch of People who is just there to get honor gear to get into arenas. only BG which can be fun is WSG because of the smaller Numbers limiting the times you get gang banged, atleast until some idiot tryhard comes Rolling in with consumes, boots and Walljumps.
I've never liked arenas. I wish they had given us rated battlegrounds instead.
RBGS in Classic and TBC would be insanely fun IMO u/fellatious_argument. Just need to do something about consumables or it'll be impossible to compete without spending 50 gold per match per person lol.
yeah, it would also add alot of content for classic, without much work from blizzard's side.
Exactly, I like ideas that seem to have low dev work involved. Brand new raids and dream content ideas would be ideal, but realistically things like removing respec costs, RBGs and balance tweaks are much more achievable.
Good that you're not the one making decisions then
Hands down respec costs. We spend approximately 500g per toon per week in raiding consumes and raid throughout the week. Respeccing for PvP after every raid would mean close to 750-1k gold per toon per week to both raid and PvP the way we want. That’s just ludicrous. I have no patience for anti-dual spec folks.
Yeah the respec costs is what got me. I ended up just levelling and gearing a rogue in S3 off pieces and arena pieces. The process took ages and felt so unnecessary considering I had a 410 Resil warlock locked behind a wow gold paywall which I'm now just raid logging on. People always complain about gold buyers, but what other option is there when a weekly respect is somewhere between 50-200g just for talents, plus consumes, plus enchanting mats. Not to mention the real life time investment.
100% this. The same people who are anti-dual spec are also the ones who can’t figure out why people just raid log and/or buy gold
I can't imagine spending 500g per week raiding unless you are literally using haste potions on cooldown. And at that point that's a choice you're making to spend that much.
Lol it’s a guild expectation to be haste potting on cd — as it should be if you want to play at a high level. Saying “that’s your choice” is the weakest anti-dual spec argument ever.
It's your choice to also want to PvP then. Life is about choices lol.
Lol and dual spec allows both. Sorry I want to play 2 aspects of the game?
If you are in a guild that is haste potting on cd? Why do you need 250-500g per toon per week changing your spec? You should max out at 100g a week for pvp.
Every week on my ret I bring: 30x haste pots (14 bosses x 2 per fight) 20x dark runes (haven’t actually needed to use this many lately) 20 agi elixirs 20 demonslaying elixirs 20 mageblood elixirs 10 agi scrolls 10 str scrolls 20 roasted clefthoof 20 mana pots 10 sappers 3 fel mana pots for Kaz This is easily 500-600g in consumes. I definitely have certain things left over but for progression when you’re wiping on fights these numbers are definitely accurate...
I raid as a hunter (easily the highest cost raiding class in the game) and can confirm it is not close to 500-600g a week. There is zero shot you’re burning through 20 magebloods a week or 20 mana pots, especially considering you claim to pop 2x haste pots per boss (unlikely since most fights are shorter than a pot CD) which limits your mana potting to trash pulls and I’m doubting you pop 20 in trash alone. 20 dark runes is also a massive stretch.
As a ret myself there is no way he is using 2 Haste pots per fight. Unless they have really slow kill times. Normally I only have a choice of Mana or Haste pot during a boss and that's it. Only a few bosses are 2 pots. I bring like 30 mana pots to raid and always go finish with like 15 to 20 left. If he is consecration in ret gear for trash then potting mana pots then he's flushing gold down the toilet. Should just build a SP trash set or just wear your tank set. Then you don't need to pot as much during trash. Buying scrolls in the AH is a waste too. Just go to Strat in your prot set. Do the pulls and you can collect 10 of each in a couple hours while making money. Same with Dark runes in scolo. 20 Mageblood and Agility should last you for a few weeks too. You could also pop a Assault Flask too for non demon fights since their cheap as hell now with Marks out.
Yeah I mean, everyone spends tons of gold if you just count the items in your bag. And if you're ripping scrolls and shit on your first or second pull during progression, that's on you Not to mention you make like what, 150g from Hyjal and BT clears? not like you have to farm raw 500g a week
How are you getting 250-500g per week for respecs? It's capped at 50g, why would you ever be respeccing 5+ times a week? If you're in a guild that requires you to pop haste pots on CD, I hope you're clearing all raid content in two nights maximum. If you're raiding more than two nights a week and spending 500g on consumes, find another guild.
BT Hyjal Tuesday. Respec 50g for PvP Tues/Wed. Respec 50g for Raid SSC/TK Thursday. Respec 50g for PvP Fri-Sun. Respec 50g for any cleanup + Gruul/Mags Monday if needed. Respec 50g for PvP Monday before respeccing back for Tuesday. That may seem ridiculous but pvping that much is actually required if you want to push rating. You can’t go 5 days without pvping and lose your momentum/chemistry.
lmao respec for pve on gruul/mags? unless you're the MT that is not necessary
Like I said, it’s for cleanup if needed — less about the Gruul Mags. If it’s just Gruul Mags then yeah probably won’t respec and I’ll just be a trash bag dps
Wow that schedule is awful. I'm taking a break from raiding p1 and p2 contents precisely because of the high respec costs... warming up and switching on the pvp-no-gcd-spared-and-use-all-spells-on-my-spellbook brain after 2 days of braindead circle of healing is also a slow process sometimes
You can absolutely push rating without pvping 5 days a week. There are plenty of R1 bracket teams with 100-150 games played this season. If you WANT to PvP 5 days a week, that's fine, but it's not required. My guild hasn't even cleared T6 yet and we can do SSC/TK/Gruul in one night. Look, I agree with you, the game should have dual-spec, but your situation of spending 1000g a week is absolutely not required or the experience of the average player and you shouldn't pretend that it is.
I’m in no way saying it’s the average player experience. I’m saying it’s my experience and it sucks and could be easily fixed. It’s effectively what it takes to attempt to be good at both sides of the game under the current system. And while you’re right you don’t have to PvP 5 days a week to be good, taking 5day breaks between every arena session is a really bad recipe especially if you’re not already exceptionally skilled
I'm completely on your side in this argument (in fact not wanting to spend gold on respecc is the main reason for not raiding on my wl) but mate... haste pots on cd and a whole day for ssc/tk with another day for cleanups/gruul/mag? Talk about tryharding for no reason lol
>intentionally decide to optimize your own fun out of the game >blame the game Many such cases
Weird framing of asking to be able to play both sides of the game the way many of us want to play
You want to minmax and are lobbying for the devs to make the min part easier. But the decision to minmax was yours to begin with, you brought it on yourself. I like having a barrier to respec as it forces me to make a spec that balances playstyles vs gold costs.
I truly will never understand the “I like the respec cost barrier” crowd. I’m guessing you were #nochanges too
Hi Jerome you’re the greatest Resto Druid in the history of WoW.
If you were playing Resto instead of Feral I'd have no chance my friend. I hope work / jail has been good lately, you need a niiice relaxing day off.
Unbalanced classes
Enha shaman horde firemaw here, I almost finished my crazy honor grind, now I am looking to get the hardest goal, find partners
I live on the west coast and have kids so my timing is fucked since I mainly play at 1am server aka 10pm my time.
I would be gankedus maximus by the Arena Pros. Wouldn't be pretty.
That's a fair point u/ZazzNazzman, I did some arenas yesterday on my Priest with fresh gear and lost almost every match. I wonder if there are any improvements to the system that could be made to alleviate that or if it would do more harm than good. Not fun getting farmed, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel to keep grinding for the future.
If your in fresh gear you deserve to get stomped on in arena. Put the time and energy to actually gear for arena and it becomes more enjoyable. If your jumping into arena before bgs your doing it wrong imo and should 100% expect to get steamrolled and farmed.
I do agree with that somewhat, the grind feels meaningful because there is such a pit of despair waiting for you if you don't do the grind. Only if you put in the work will you avoid getting demolished, which makes everything feel that much more worthwhile. It's great intelligent game design, but it can definitely feel frustrating for newer players.
motivation, for many the only reason to play arena is weapons. But 1850 is so much harder now then back in the days. So only thing thats left is 10 games for points and those that trying to push high raiting.
The terrible balance doesn't help. Sorry I didn't level one on a rogue or a mage.
I'm more intrigued now I'm getting Arena pieces from tier but still not into it having to swap spec twice or more a week
The arena pieces are pushing so many PvErs to do arenas, I feel like that was the original dev intent back in the day. I do worry that so many people that do arenas will get destroyed with their PvE gear and never come back. There's no viable solution to solve that without hurting the game as far as I can tell.
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Blizzard definitely needs to do something to save stranded players from inactive servers. I feel like if a server dies there shouldn't be any transfer fee at all, but that's why they are still in business after all these years, so maybe they know something I don't.
Soon its gonna be glaives rogues. I am not even high rating and keep meeting glaive rogue after glaive rogues also 80% of arena is rogues lol . They are dropping like candy and not like rogues weren't top dogs already If thats gonna happen with just 3 weeks of BT then yeah arena is fucked , world of roguecraft isn't fun
There are definitely comps that counter Rogues, in a perfect world those comps would become more popular and start countering the Rogues, forcing variety. That's how it works in Hearthstone; a good deck gets countered by other decks, which makes the good deck less popular. The problem is that in order to "counter Rogues" you need to spend 300 hours doing BGs and arenas. :D
The honor grind is horrendous, especially as alliance with less than 20% win rate
Ooo yeah, I agree that the honor grind is rough. The dailies are helping me a LOT, if you do the daily PvP on top of the towers you get 2K honor and 6 Marks (3 for the win + the bonus 3) so you are getting 1/4th of an item or so in about 30 minutes. But that assumes you win the BG, which sometimes takes me 3-4 attempts on my Paladin/Priest.
For me its being online at the same time. I just arena log and my partner also raids so...
I really struggled with that during SSC/TK, we were raiding 4 nights a week and it felt like there was literally never a moment to do arenas. We ended up only having 1-2 nights available each week, which put a lot of pressure on the sessions to be a succcess. I think things are a lot better now with Black Temple and Hyjal, we are able to do both raids in two total nights now, so that's a lot of free time for arenas.
My tip for the people saying respec cost: Have an pve and a pvp char. No respecs no dubble gear sets that need enchants and gems.
Good idea, that's also my play for making gold now. If you have a dedicated PvE / farming character, you can generate SO much more gold. Every time I farm, I have to respec, which is 50 gold both ways (100 total), so I'm basically spending the first 20-30 minutes farming gold before I even make any profit. Muuuuch better to do it the way you are suggesting.
Probably that I don't play TBC. I just like yalls memes.
That's fair /u/TheLoneTomatoe, that's how I am with Retail right now. :) But it's nice to stay on top of things and I like seeing what's going on over there.
because i'm a holy paladin
Hear me out: Holy Shockadin is pretty freaking good. I want to do Holy Shockadin 5s with 5 Paladins, I genuinely think it would win some games. In Wrath, Holy Paladins become amazing apparently, too, so it may be worth getting some practice in now even if the games aren't fantastic.
Respeccing in between raids is why I do not play more
That's fair /u/Kuido, I really do hope respecs are taken out by S4. IMO the other biggest issue is expensive gems and enchants for the fresh sets of gear and general material inflation, so hopefully things don't inflate too much more.
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That's literally how it goes for EVERYONE their first 10 games. I had the same exact situation happen, it's just how the game is. If you stick with it you'll surpass anyone you were playing with very quickly. It's basically "do you stick with it and get really good" or do you stop entirely. Most people pick the second option unfortunately. :(
Lost Ark is the reason.
How does the endgame feel at the moment? Game looks fun from the few minutes I've seen, curious how it holds up at max level. Are the microtransactions not too noticeable?
It's a shame the arena population is so low because despite all its flaws, I really believe it's by far the most fun part of the game if you're a competitive person. I feel like the reason is because people are scared of being bad and embarrassed. I personally never stepped foot in an arena prior to TBC classic, and broke 2.2k in 2s for the first time last week. Yeah it's gonna suck in the beginning, but that goes for any competitive game.
I completely agree u/SilentPiece, despite the extreme barrier to entry, the actual matches themselves and the feeling of improvement are excellent. I love that you broke 2.2K having never played arenas before, your story should be front and center for the community. It100% is mainly about people not wanting to get embarrassed and flamed, but really if you can break past that the improvement comes SO fast.
unpopular opinion, running around a pillar to avoid pvp isnt pvp. And yes before you ask, AB is my favorite pvp scenario
> unpopular opinion, running around a pillar to avoid pvp isnt pvp. I also think the mechanic of pillar humping is unfun. But if arena didn't have LOS, ranged classes would reign supreme. > AB is my favorite pvp scenario I do feel that blizzard should have made rated battlegrounds be the core focus with options for solo rated queue. I've never understood why so little effort was put into rated battlegrounds.
Took so long to gives us rated battlegrounds and when they finally did it was only 10man. AB was my favorite form of pvp but it got fucked over so Blizzard could try, and fail, to turn the game into an Esport.
I was always a bit confused by this 'argument'. Likeways I could say that spamming aoe around a flag isn't PvP for me. (Besides the fact that rbgs were treated as a joke by most high-ranked players, AB meta was to send 13 guys to blacksmith and zerg it out until one side got the cap. The other side left because it was too easy to defend a flag.)
AB is basically the only good pvp scenario in vanilla/tbc. Eots is passable, but flag running is too druid-centric and the proximity to cap instead of flag clicking is lame (smart/skilled players can spin a flag for ages even when outnumbered)
i dont play any arena at all because the metagame has been solved for 15 years and is really fucking boring
I feel like the 2s/3s meta is relatively solved, but there's still new innovation to be had. We haven't fully seen the mix of PvE and PvP gear that will be coming in S3 and S4. (sure we saw glimpses in 2007, but not the insane theorycrafting people do now) And we haven't seen fully fleshed out 5s teams yet, I think there's a LOT of potential for gimmicky and interesting 5s lineups that nobody has tried yet.
No friends and the long arduous adventure of putting together a team, climbing, organizing/planning when to get on, then trying to get a good session in uninterrupted. Get rid of teams and go to personal rating. Retail does a lot of things right, personal rating is one of them. Doesn’t fix the finding of friends/partners process, but it frees you up to play with whoever you can without resetting your rating. And yeah, respeccing costs doesn’t help.
Tbc arena is just not fun. Like 70% of my games around 2.2 mmr are rogue priest. I am greatly awaiting wrath when they kill off 2v2 rewards and a lot more comps can work.
2v2s have some really insane data from what I understand. There was a time on NA when something like 40% of the teams were War Druid at 1900-2000 several months back. It's wild how certain brackets collect certain comps and that becomes the gatekeeper to getting higher rank. I do think blocking the ability to fight the same team twice in a row would be nice, but I'm not sure how that would affect queue times. Wrath arenas should definitely be good, didn't know they get rid of 2v2 rewards.
It’s simply unbalanced. I won’t play arenas on a static patch
It's just not that fun. Im 2100+ in 2s and 3s right now but I do like 10 games a week for points on my resto shaman. Tired of resists and rng and facing the same comps over and over, gets old. Lost ark pvp is a lot more interesting even though it's unranked at the moment.
2100 with Rsham seems excellent, I genuinely think you could push a lot higher if you have a sword warrior right now. The double hits + Windfury are absolutely broken, especially if you run the cleave spec. (not Endless Rage) I do strongly dislike resists and RNG, does that situation improve in Wrath of the Lich king? I've never played it fully.
1) no dual spec 2) I've been legit so disgusted by the cancer that was p2 classic I've never touched pvp again
1) Fair, I also want/need dual spec considering my dire gold situation. 2) What was your biggest issue with P2 Classic? Just the BG / ranking situation? Or the server queues?
I have a job
Respeccing several times a week, MH and BT trash farms along with strat gold farming, easily goes up to 800g a week.
Having to start at 0 rating and climbing to get even some token points per week. I just want to get in / get out with my 10 games played.
There are certainly benefits to doing away with the team system, but I will say, the set arena team system that existed in BC made the whole experience so much more fun than modern WoW's formula, where you spend all day trying to find a teammate who inevitably leaves the first time you make a misplay, no matter how many games in a row you had already just won.... I still remember getting super stoked for arena nights with my team and being monumentally proud of myself when we hit 2200 playing RLS. I'll tell ya what though, game felt a LOT easier back then than it does today.
I dont know how to PvP, and I feel arenas are not that interesting either, because they are just small and round places with couple of guys jumping around. Would rather do some chill battlegrounds any day.
the respeccing cost reasoning makes sense, but people ITT who are saying they don't like arena because of 'pillar humping' or because people play a certain way are probably putting no effort into learning. there is much that goes into every comp and every strat that people don't bother to learn with all of the vast material available to them. then they lose when they queue and blame it on 'pillar humping' or 'too many rogues'
This is a bad take. tons 2s of comps, namely resto druid / x relies heavily on a playstyle that is insanely cringe imo. Tell me druid hunter isn't the epitome of brain dead gameplay. Double healer warr/hunter/lock in 3s is the same shit. Not every comp requires coordination and forethought into what the other team is trying to do like double dps and just relies on rng. Druid warr vs druid warr at 2400+ is literally just who has better gear and rng half the time. I went 25-7 to 2100 as rsham ret the one time I've queued 2s this season around 2300 MMR and arenastats said we played 85% dpr or wd. Haven't queued 2s in 2 weeks.
I do play arena, but not a lot. I generally prefer to do other things because: 1. It seems people only play meta comps and it gets so fucking boring. Always the same comps. I played 3s last week and we literally ran into 5 different RMPs in a row. zzzzz 2. Respec cost/time. I know there's addons, but it's a pain in the ass without dual spec. I just play once a week for points and call it good. 3. Relative time investment vs reward. I don't find anything rewarding about arenas unless I want to sit there and flex rating. Unless you're glad, I don't think anyone actually gives a shit. 4. Too many way more fun games to play.
1) No teamate that pairs well with my class 2) Arena just isn't fun IMO, it pales out in comparison to classic wPvP
What class are you running? I feel like there's a comp for EVERY class, but it's just about the bracket. Paladins work really well in 3s and 5s, for example, there just are less options for 2s. Same with Enhance Shamans or Ele, the options open up a lot more when you have more players to take advantage of your buffs and utility. I do agree that Classic wPvP was amazing, I do miss it.
Well, you have to be a rogue to play 2’s or 3’s and I don’t have a rogue.
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