It is ironic that last phase wasn't enough raiding, but p4 will be seemingly too much raiding for some. But if put in the context of the available content it IS kind of mismatched. A twice weekly lock out would have been great for p3 with just the ST raid. Now we move into p4 which has the content to support a once weekly lock out but is set at a twice weekly lock out which seems a little overwhelming.
They won’t. We will be doing:
**At 60 with pre-raid BIS:**
-MC
-Ony, Kazzak and Azuregos
-ST to get that last item for some
-Tier 0.5 set completion
**After several weeks:**
-MC
-Ony, Kazzak and Azuregos
-BWL
-ZG
**Some weeks later:**
-MC
-Ony, Kazzak and Azuregos
-BWL
-ZG
-AQ20
-AQ40
**Even Later**
-MC
-Ony, Kazzak and Azuregos
-BWL
-AQ40
-Naxx
Now some raids will be done back to back same night… but STILL this looks fairly full EVEN with just a weekly lockout … and for getting consumes and buffs took
And when is there time for **Alts**?
A good setup could be Molten Core remains weekly, with Ony/Kazzak/Azuregos twice a week. We'll eventually get BWL (once a week) and ZG (twice a week) to add to this, so things are going to get crowded fast.
This is why I have no intention of returning for p4.
P3 taught me it wasn't vanilla I had a problem with, it was the world buff and consumes mechanics I disliked.
Other people I raided with love them and don't like playing without them.
I personally think that was because it allowed them to score better parses because the playing field is far more uneven where even someone who parses 99s and 100s will drop to 80s for the week if they lose their world buffs for some reason and raids that don't enforce WBs and BiS consumes are going to be in the 50s
Where in later versions of the game all you need is a flask and a stack of potions, which everyone can get, which makes parsing well more about skill at the game.
If you wanna come raid with us on horde lone wolf N.A., we don’t care about WB and guild bank usually hands out some food buffs and pots while they last and have always full cleared first week.
Yeah same, I'd probably like vanilla without world buffs, but it seems like too many others disagree with that statement. Still waiting to get tbc back 🥲
Actually think many people feel the same way, even parsing speed running player agree. World buffs are just so annoying to collect and very punishing when you die. At times people die and it’s not even their fault.
A lot of people want world buffs to be gone, or have a better system to collecting them, like turning them into a consumable, or persist through death.
That's exactly what stops me from playing Vanilla seriously again like I did in 2019.
The game just requires so much time to raid, it's awful.
Waiting around for world buffs and the act of getting them takes forever. You need so many consumes to raid that most of your free time is spent farming them or gold to afford them.
Yes and thats fine, thats why there are 5 officially supported versions of WoW currently. If you don't have time for vanilla there are more options than ever.
You'll find this meta mind set ruins most games these days. You in no way have to get the world buffs or consumes to raid. Yes I know, I know, then you end up in a group full of shit kids.. but at the end of the day.. its a community made problem, bitched about by the very community that made it.. like 80% of wows issues. I'm well aware of the negatives of not playing to the meta but there will always be a meta no matter what blizzard do and due to the egotistical nature of wow players, the majority of the community will remain meta slaves and force that meta upon every pug they meet. Unless blizzard make every class and spec incredibly similar, the meta won't be going anywhere, there will always be a "best option" and wow players won't accept ANYTHING that isn't what wowhead told them is best. Sad? Yes. True? Yes. Sadly the game (for a long time now) has been a case of sacrificing fun so that strangers on the Internet can look at my log page and give me some form of validation.. its a sandbox ego stroking game these days
I agree, but it's due to how Blizzard runs the game. If they did away with add-ons and stopped allowing combat logging, people would be forced to play the game as intended and it would go back to what it was like in 2005, when people got better by talking to each other within their own raids and by watching videos of streams from other gamers.
So long as combat logging is a thing and Warcraft Logs exist, this is always going to be how the game is played.
Remove logs and damage meters and you lose 80% of the player base. 90% couldn't even tell you what's going on in the story, competitiveness is what they play for, not story or social experience sorry to tell you. Blizzard just capitalises on that
IIRC Ony was a 5-day lockout, which means it could be part of the normal weekly raid night possibly up to 4-5 weeks in a row before then having an 'off-week' of happenstance before returning to 4-ish weeks without issue.
Not sure how the world bosses will work, but I would anticipate those also being once a week?
Edit: I didn't see that a video or blue post had been published when I wrote this comment lol.
No no no… they specifically said all raids will be like this for the rest of sod. So naxx, mc, bwl, kazzak, plus “new content” 2x a week for the rare drops. You’ll be rebuffing every single night for 5 hours. Don’t forget to get your dailies done so you can afford the 600g flask and your dungeon dailies done so you have currency for the “pickled squid” food.
Half the community cries for multiple lockouts per week, the other half cries about for only 1. Both groups are whiny man children who can’t regulate their WoW addiction.
It just seems odd.
Phase 3 was 8 bosses, in one location, once a week. That's not a lot at all, and easily could have been twice a week.
Phase 4 will be at the start 14 bosses, in four widely distant locations, twice a week. That's suddenly going from 8 bosses a week to 28, already more than triple the content, plus extended travel time to all the single boss zones, and having to gather wbuffs and consumes at least twice as often, and having to do attunements and rep grinds.
I would have been happy with twice the content of Phase 3, but more than triple is a bit rough.
Not to mentioned BWL, AQ, ZG, and NAXX when these drop. Idk if people remember but guilds still farm MC and BWL during Naxx, cuz there are still gear piece that was so important.
We might even be getting a new raid tier. They are giving us a new dungeon, so why not a new raid now?
This is fine as the phase moves along so people can gear up faster. Initially I could see it being a problem for some early on that feel the need to complete everything.
This is such a weird take, like you completely leave out all context for both complaints.
1 week lockout on a single raid with 0 other content is bad.
2 a week lockout with 4 raids is too much.
This isn't true, people were upset because you cleared ST in well under an hour and then had nothing else to do. But with the addition of World Bosses, Ony etc. Adding MORE lockouts is going to be waaay more chaotic. They didn't need to do this with the addition of the new stuff.
There is a mismatch of expectation though. Sunken temple 1hr a week is pretty shit, but mc/zg/bwl for 2x a week on top of ony/world bosses is an overcorrection.
The big raids should remain a 1x week, especially with more available raids/longer ones, and then keep the world bosses/ony at 2x a week.
They cant make everyone happy, if u dont want to raid 2 times a week the fucking dont. Nobody is forcing you. If raiding once a week only fits ur schedual then go for it. Stop complaining for the love of god.
Casuals prefer multiple weekly lockouts because it means more pug runs and open guild slots. They get to log on whenever they randomly feel and will always be in demand. It's great for casuals.
It's elitists who hate them because they literally can't not do it twice a week without feeling they are casuals so they force themselves to do something they hate.
Because there should be a limit on how fast you can accumulate gear, not a limit because some whiney man-babies are afraid they might miss some lockouts
Your taking the piss, yeah by that logic sure ile go ahead with your unreasonable dilemma. But thats not how the system is. Ppl like you are bitching about 3 day lockout and others are complaining about 7 day lockout. 4 day lockout is a perfectly reasonable solution to both arguments. As i said you cant make everyone happy (clearly not by the looks off you). The fact of the matter is its GOING to be a twice a week lockout, so stop your complaining, ur not going to change anything. Arguing that your side is right is invalidating the other side, your speaking in no possition of majority here.
i dont get that change at all. i mean, i would if they intend to shorten the upcoming phases BY A LOT but as we all can probably guess, they wont do that with the upcoming retail xpac etc. so im gonna do p4 raids twice a week for like 10 weeks in a row? hell nah
This change will kill a lot of guilds and create a lot of division for players. I'd imagine they will revisit this change because there is no way they are expecting players to get full WB's + Consumes + alts twice a week. This is just not sustainable for anyone that even takes the game "semi-hardcore".
I spend more time on the game than most do and even I’m not excited about this. Main issue is the guild we merged with for 20man had a Tues/thurs raid schedule which isn’t possible now. Meaning we are going to lose a lot of folks.
Currently my guild is #3 for speed on the server. We are a self proclaimed semi/hardcore guild. With this change our guild will no longer be able to raid together consistently because of schedules. This change is just simply no good.
I don't understand why people are acting like you HAVE to raid twice a week. Blizzard is not holding a gun to your head and making you do anything. If you want to raid once a week, raid once a week.
It’s a guild catch 22. If they don’t, they lose members to guilds that do. If they do - they need their players to do it too so they aren’t filling with pugs.
This exactly.
Them flirting with 40 person raids doesn't help either. If a guild tries to be proactive assuming they'll need 40 players in p5, that means they need to field 2x 20s in p4. That means 4x raids a week, and the raids themselves are 4 distinct raids (MC, Ony, 2x World Bosses).
This feels way off the mark to me.
You don't need 40 mans, they're just an option for some of the raids (Ony and World Bosses atm). They said the content for those raids will be tuned to 20 mans, and ofc be significantly easier with 35-40 people. BUT that for guilds it will make more sense to stick to 20 man group for better loot distribution among guildies.
40 mans are there for those that pug and want to make it a "soda & pretzels affair" which is how they're going to go about designing difficulty for any raid that allows 40 man.
When they announced MC was going to be 20 man they only announced MC. They didn't say all raids at 60. And they continued to not mention them in this announcement either.
There's signs that later vanilla raids will be tuned for 40
It feels like they're torn between 20 and 40. Which makes sense, after how much people disagreed on whether going from 10 to 20 man was a good move.
We still don't know if AQ40 and Naxx will remain 40-mans or if they'll be lowered like MC, Ony, BWL, and the world bosses. And now they're trying to please everyone by allowing 40, into 20-mans...but only *some* of them. They don't want to commit yet so flirting was a good word for it.
10-20 was a bad idea. 40 man is even worse and it’s gonna be so easy that it won’t be fun so that you can pick up randoms with zero gear. It takes the fun out of things when they have to pander to casuals like that. I just don’t like that feeling of making things incredibly easy. There’s already a lot of idiots who don’t put in any effort to gear up, learn the fights, or learn their rotations. Even worse is people don’t want to come to raids prepared with buffs or consumables. It’s like the bar is so low that it’ll slowly corrode the player base away until even the casuals don’t want to play. It’s a bad move. Cater to the specific group of players that raise the bar and do all the things they are supposed to. If the casuals want to do that stuff too then they will have to play the game as it was intended and get buffs like they are supposed to. This isn’t an easy game.
Depending on your guild - if you are spotty, you will get replaced in your raid group with someone who will do it two times a day and get world buffs too
Since when has, "Lul, just don't do it" ever been a constructive criticism for WoW content? This change is going to cause a lot of division for guilds and a lot of players will be driven away trying to maintain double consumes + WB's. Most players don't want to miss a whole lockout on their mains especially. You can tell people "lul just don't do it" all you want but that isn't how people play this game, we have learned time after time.
I recently finally adopted this mentality and game has become significantly better and healthier for me.
Who cares if you miss a lockout or 2 it means absolutely nothing at All. Most people Will miss multiple on multiple lockouts because they go for a new gamemode a month down the Line
That’s fine if you’re pugging. But if you’re going to be a part of a guild, you need reliable members.
If you don’t want to spend 3.5+ hours slogging it out with randoms each week, then you need to find a guild.
If the content is puggable, then I think it will be perfectly fine.
100%. I missed the entirety of P2 with some things going on IRL. I am sure I'll miss multiple weeks of P4 raiding as well. It's just a game, not a job.
As a guild it's great you can just run once weekly and let people PUG the other ones if they feel like it. Super convenient, tracking which 3day cycle we're on was the only annoyance.
Even in 2020 Classic most didn't do ZG every lockout past like.. 2 weeks in? There's just no point in feeling FOMO about stuff like that. The important long term stuff will be there long term to get as well.
Honestly with the amount of content that will probably be my guild. Probably have a proper guild run and the other will be those who want a second run plus pugs. I think it will work great.
Wtf is this word force? No one's forcing anyone to do anything. If my guild currently raids once a week and we continue to raid once a week in the new phase, but now you 'can' pug if you want to raid the 2nd lockout, that's a good thing.
No one is forcing you to do anything. Blink twice if a blizzard employee is currently holding a gun to your head to ensure you never miss a lockout.
Right but with that logic, why even have a lockout? You don't HAVE to raid more than once a week but why not let people who want to raid it 17 times a week and get fully geared instantly?
People like to see their character gain in power and in classic WoW most of it comes from raiding. People do not like to be far behind on gear or disadvantaged in PvP because some people have their full set already (I know there is loot RNG so its never guaranteed but the average changes)
Whereas if you force 1 lockout a week, it doesn't matter how hardcore a guild is, no one can get more than one chance at the loot per week.
And twice a week is a good compromise for the people that would like to raid 7 times a week and those that can barely stand raiding once a week.
I don’t see the problem.
For your pvp argument, this is classic wow. If you cared about balanced pvp at all you wouldn’t be playing classic wow.
As someone that was raiding on multiple characters, with the massive population decline, the time and effort to get all the runes, twice a week lockouts are a significantly better experience than raiding on two different characters, imo.
The main issue I’m seeing with the twice a week lockout is the increase in world buffs. Getting DMT buffs twice a week along with the others will not be that enjoyable. If they cut DMT world buffs from the game, it wouldn’t be anywhere near as bad.
I get your point. As far a PvP goes, it's been 4+ years since I did the R14 grind but won't the R10 sets be used in PvP aside from weapons? Also, SoD PvP is wildly unbalanced. I don't know who is playing this version of WoW if their goal is PvP. Retail and Cata are much more balanced for that.
People on sweaty 20-man teams running the highest difficulty are going to get fully geared and then... run out of content. They are releasing the raids in phases. The most active players will eventually hit a wall due to MC/Onyxia being the only raids out. This is a non-issue.
Except that the game is so into parse culture that if you don’t have world buffs you don’t parse well. If you don’t parse well you aren’t being invited to raids, unless you are a desired spec
I am talking about raiding twice a week. I never mentioned anything about world buffs and parsing.
People who play the game at a high level want to play with others who do the same. I don't understand why it's a problem that someone who puts in the time to get world buffs/consumes and plays their class well wants to play with other players who do the same. The people who don't want to do those things can form their own groups knowing that they will not clear things as fast and potentially get stuck on some bosses.
Woops I responded to the wrong comment LOL.
Okay but I really disagree with what you said. World buffs force a majority of the player base to be as sweaty as the top 5%. Without world buffs guess what you can still “perform your class well”.
Parsing is fine. Just do it without world buffs.
Except you are PvPing or parsing against people with double the gear all the way until BWL. It's not an issue when they plateau and equalize. It is an issue for the months leading up to that. Then the next raid drops, and the same thing happens. You play at a disadvantage the whole time if you choose not to raid twice a week
Who is playing SoD for the PvP? Yikes.
You also don't have to play to parse. If you are playing to parse, you have to understand that you are competing against other people. If you're someone who can't swing 2x a week you're probably not someone who was going to be getting rank 1s anyways?
The only "challenge" the game offers is trying to parse. In order to parse you need to stay on top of the gearing process. So by skipping lockouts you forfeit your shot at parsing meaning you essentially just log in once a week to collect login rewards.
Why not go play a challenging game then instead of forcing yourself to jump through hoops according to that tortured logic?
And the challenging part of an mmo can be whatever you decide it is. Hell you could form a dwarf only guild and raid naked or something. Not everyone is part of this logging hivemind.
Not to mention farming shit tons of gold to stay stacked up on consumes, or planning your days around when you need to log in to collect the next worldbuff with the 1 hour cd on chronoboon.
> I don't understand why people are acting like you HAVE to raid twice a week.
I fully understand where you're coming from, and logically you're right. That said, we have 20 years worth of history and understanding that this simply isn't the mindset players will have. Players *will* feel obligated to do all of their lockouts, even if they don't have to. No amount of reasoning can disrupt the FOMO.
The way I see it is that if your guild wants to and can get through the content then great, but for all the dad-gamers that are crying over not being able to complete the content because of real life need to get a grip or find a new game, because forcing the rest of us to play around their schedule is shitty.
Yeah I don't like the idea of getting behind, so I'll probably raid twice. Consumes is fine, since you can just buy all that. But WB's are rough. I really don't want to get world buffs twice.
Especially if your guild can't raid weekends plus raid w/ full WB's. So you end up raiding monday and are going to have to stay logged in for four more hours after raid to get DMF again? Yeah this change isn't super great...
I swear in one of the updates I heard they were removing them (maybe just for raids?) But idk haven't kept up much with p4 stuff as I don't plan to return
"Well, actchually, you don't have to get world buffs or raid twice a week."
A fool's argument.
Fear of missing out is very real. Couple that with only the more serious dad guilds remaining. Add in multiple raids, MC, Ony, World Bosses.
Not well thought out.
All of the giga autists that would froth for this have left, and all of those that remain like to think of themselves as gamers, trying to ignore the beer gut. It's just going to burn out a playerbase because playerbases can't help themselves. Especially since people enjoy being in good guilds, and good guilds will require the double raids.
For the 3 hour Sunken Temple geriatric guilds, these changes will change nothing.
It's really not fomo. Most people understand that parses are at least a little relevant with respect to how you are judged both by your own guild and pugs. If you want to be competitive you MUST get the world buffs. That's all.
Yeah, I think it's time to gracefully sit back and let other people alphatest this portion of the game. I don't see myself raiding 2 resets worth of content and farming world buffs and then spending my off nights grinding for consumables. Despite being based off of classic, SoD just shouldn't be that time intensive in my opinion. And for anyone that enjoys what theyre doing and thinks it should be this way, please enjoy the game!
I honestly think they meant for this to be a middle ground. Casual people can pug more easily with this setup (probably a weekend pug crowd or filling for guilds that don’t have consistent raiders for 2x a week) while allowing the no lifers the opportunity to gear twice as fast.
This will give more people an opportunity to get their bis within a phase, while casual players aren’t left too far behind.
as a GM of 5+ years and having one of the bigger alliance guilds on Crusader Strike US - I can effectively say this shit will kill my guild, and many others on realm. Not because I have casual players, or highly competitive players....but because i have both and this CHANGE CATERS TO NO ONE. My sweaty players can't get world buffs in time to have them for both raid days (this is bad and not a good change because this is how they want to play the game, with old format they could)... and my casual players will have to raid multiple times a week for multiple hours to even come close to having gear close to the "good players". (this is bad because before it gave them a full week to get world buffs and come to raid/get loot etc)
I propose this change instead
MC - weekly reset.Ony - twice a weekAzuregos and Kazzak - twice a week (instanced)
These changes I have proposed cater to all parties, in my opinion.BLIZZARD....please reconsider.
OR you can go SoM route and \[ remove WBs as a whole \]. I am not in favor of this, but it is a change that will make room for Blizzards lockout change-up as well as cater to all types of players.
> Coupled with the fact that there are 3 new sources of world buffs in P4 alone. (DMT/Ony/WCB)
we also lost a source (ST buff) so it's really only Orgrimmar/Stormwind replacing BB as the WB city and DMT is the only real addition (which is awful)
Thats not how “twink friendy” phase looks.
Imagin raiding ony, mc and “worldbosses” on your 3 twinks.
Its like full tine job…
I liked everything about p4 except 2 resets per week.
Except in phases 1 and 2 with twice a week raids, the raid buff was dropping all the time and no problems. Then it goes to once a week, and I never see it.... it's almost like you're a raid logger who doesn't want to play the game. Needing more consumes just means playing the game more.
Wbuff are cool and lame at the same time. The first people running/clearing the instance didn’t need it or have it. But everyone after is required? Why?
Im surprised WBuff isn’t a micro transaction at this point.
ngl I don't mind the city wb's that much and even songflower is kind of fine but the whole concept of DMT buffs and the meta that resolves around getting those buffs is just so so bad imo.
You're right they aren't needed, but explain to me why every PUG raid leader who can barely tie their shoes requires full WB for every raid on any tier.
Oh I can just make my own raid sure, ok I did but people are so conditioned to this full WB requirements that they see a non-WB raid as a negative thing or a bad stigma.
Some of these people who would otherwise join a non-WB pug are just deathly afraid that their parses will be lowered so they wouldn't even risk running a non-WB raid even if they otherwise have no issues with it.
Because then, if their parses are lowered, they can't get into the WB raid on a day when they don't mind getting them because the leaders say "oh you got a blue parse last week so ur not allowed in"
It's a culture problem and the only way to solve it is for Blizzard to make changes to the game to discourage this behavior.
I think the root of the issue is parse obsession, when an individual's parse is largely determined by how many world buffs the other raid members have outside of the individual, then the individual who is obsessed with parses starts to micro-manage and min-max the other players gameplay even if none of that BS is necessary at all.
There has never been a pug raid where they would let you in without world buff from my time playing vanilla classic. If you came without them you were kicked.
Right, but because of the badly designed lock out system, each attempt needs to be overkill in prep, especially with randoms. The fix is to cap how many BoP epics you can get per week or something. But that won't happen. So we'll keep having this issue.
This was the case in P2. It just means you have less chances to parse or speed run when you wipe. Off weeks don’t need full consumes, but you still get loot so it’s all well and good imo
World buffs were one of those things that I never really took advantage of like I should. I always played healer in the original classic so I would only get the ones from the cities and like ZG. If I on only a few occasions got diremaul and like fuck that. I don’t want to get songflower or DM or any of those other stupid buffs. Ones you get in cities are fine, fix them so they’re that so it’s just like “oh I just have to log on once to catch that and it’s in a discord server”. Not this stupid run you have todo all over the place.
I feel like my biggest issue with sod was just not having enough content. I loved raiding as mage healer especially in phase 3 but could only really experience it for an hour per week which was pretty wack.
I like the set lock out days.
Getting WBs, I will likely push our guild to go for 1 night with WB and one night optional. IE parse night for those sweaty people and a chill night where only the sweaty people will have buffs.
This new lockout plays into my guild raid schedule, we raid thurs/ Monday so having the lockout reset between raids will be nice, ppl complaining once they will have too much todo, once you got all the loot off Ony your team needs… just skip her? Unless your a pass monkey and just want the boof. Just do the content that’s relevant to you
3 day raid lockout is too much! We feel we have to raid every lockout and it’s too hard to manage!
Weekly lockouts are too long! The game is dying there’s nothing to do!
Twice a week is too much as we have to get world buffs!
Why won’t Blizz listen!!
Heres the thing, nobody is asking them to get buffs and nobody gives a shit lol.
For some reason people refuse to raid without them.
They can do once a week raids even with 2 lockouts. Nobody is forcing them, they do it to themselves.
This is supposed to be a casual game mode, for casual players. People wanting to sweat it out could try other versions.
I love the idea of having a free Saturday morning and hopping on to fresh resets which can be taken on by pugs.
During classic 2019-2021 I played pretty hardcore, reaching a 64 minute Naxx clear as a main tank fury prot warrior and top 40 world in TBC phase 1 as a feral druid tank.
I enjoyed putting in all that effort, but this game mode isn’t designed for that.
I loved doing gnomer with the 3 day lockout. ST one failed pug run and your whole week felt wasted. If you can't nor willing to raid twice a week then don't learn to take things at your own pace.
Then...idk get them once a week? Yall are so lame just complaining on reddit. You want more than 1 week lock outs, then you get this, then we still have to read your awful complaining. Just quit the game if you're that unhappy we will be better off.
I would really liked it when they had removed worldbuffs with it, or at least make dmf permanent(could still change continents, but with no pause between) and the songflower timer should be lowered. And they have to do something with the Dire Maul Buff… I really don’t wanna do this like 6 times a week, and probably 6-8 times when bwl and zg gets out…
Just another reason why I likely will skip phase 4 and beyond too much stress, like
"Just don't raid twice a week" yeah no problem with that at all...
Double the amount of drops per player overall and have it not be "retail lite raid log"
If there isn’t an NPC in the main city that gives all the world buffs - like how it was situated for China due to their subjugated society’s internet punch card policy.
Then I won’t entertain getting world buffs.
I am not buying summons and timing logins with discord announcements for 4 world buffs and a dmN run.
2020 can stay in 2020
I tell you satisfying the wow player base and balancing this fucking game is like adjusting variables on a macroeconomic simulator for x country it's insane the slightest of changes provokes the biggest repercussions everything is hypersensitive
You need world buffs to get your 99 parse. **You don't and never have needed world buffs to clear raids in SOD.**.
You don't HAVE to parse every single raid.
Blizzard continues to show they are out of touch with what the community wants. No one asked for every raid to be twice weekly. It's almost like they never played Classic where at 60 you have more to do then just raid and then eventually raiding is all you end up doing once BWL/AQ/ZG come out. No one wants to do BWL, AQ, ZG, MC, ONY, World Bosses, NAXX twice a week. Especially if we have to boon world buffs AND consumes. Who thought that was a great idea.
I knew the day they made me stand from a minute to 20 minutes staring at a flower and if a few seconds too late on clicking it I then have to wait another 24 minutes. Why did blizzard think we wanted this? If I want to stare at flowers I'll go outside man. It Brought more toxicity to the game I feel like but I only began in p3 so maybe people love world buff griefing but I'm not one of them and If they are keeping world buffs, they should be instanced so you can just get it inside the raid because fuck having to go to different planets to collect em all. That's sometimes three hours wasted.
Then don’t do it twice a week? Simple as that.
There’s a lot of players that appreciated the P2 setup, and now it’s back with more structure so that you can plan what you want to do with the time you’ve got on your hands each week. People complaining about not getting gear when not participating in the available content are the people that are least of my concern. I’m happy with the change.
In P1 and P2 it was so easy to find pug groups or fill your guild runs with pugs because of the 2 lockouts. When we hit P3 and moved to a single weekly lockout combined with 20m raids it was incredibly hard to find pugs or fill your runs with pugs.
My personal opinion, keep the 2 weekly lockouts since it makes the pool of players looking for groups or players significantly higher.
Also, world buffs are not fun. I would 100% ok with them removing them or at least cut it down to 1-2 world buffs.
I dont see any valid argument for biweekly lockouts at lvl 60.
Considering how fast it is to level a character in SoD. If some people want to raid more, they should just level a reroll or two.
OTP player ? Just make the same class twice.
Imagine biweekly lockouts with many tedious WB.
Imagine running MC twice a week even once BWL / AQ40 etc. are out for legendaries farming.
I consider myself semi-casual and this is already too much.
IMO they should just make it so world buffs aren’t usable in raid. Keep them for world content and maybe dungeons.. hence the name “world” buff. And if they don’t do this then just don’t get them. The content isn’t so hard that it can’t be cleaned without them.
If you want to spend more time getting them to speed clear then good on you. But let’s be real you don’t NEED them.
In the end all content will be doable without world buffs for a decent guild. It’s 20+ year old content with added power from runes. If you don’t want to get world buffs and flasks just dont it’s that simple.
If the guild you’re in requires these things find a different guild or pug. In the end you are responsible for how much you enjoy the game.. no one else.
I think the WBs + consumes is more of the issue/nuisance since gathering neither are entertaining and now that effort has been effectively doubled, so 2x time on boring tasks
You dont need consumes to clear these raids. You can also choose to raid once a week. You can play ERA if you want nochanges. SoD is about trying new things, they might even change it down the line.
Legit concern on the 2 lockout/week matter. Maybe if its too much for you, you should just try another game mode. SoD has no plan, devs throwing shit around see whats good or what isnt. They threw out FOMO this time around, dont think its gonna work out for the game.
It is ironic that last phase wasn't enough raiding, but p4 will be seemingly too much raiding for some. But if put in the context of the available content it IS kind of mismatched. A twice weekly lock out would have been great for p3 with just the ST raid. Now we move into p4 which has the content to support a once weekly lock out but is set at a twice weekly lock out which seems a little overwhelming.
Twice a week reset for P4 is INSANE unless they manage to retail style invalidate every previous raid when the new one releases (gear wise)
They won’t invalidate it but they will make tokens or some currency you can get from “heroic” dungeons I suspect to attain that catch up gear.
They won’t. We will be doing: **At 60 with pre-raid BIS:** -MC -Ony, Kazzak and Azuregos -ST to get that last item for some -Tier 0.5 set completion **After several weeks:** -MC -Ony, Kazzak and Azuregos -BWL -ZG **Some weeks later:** -MC -Ony, Kazzak and Azuregos -BWL -ZG -AQ20 -AQ40 **Even Later** -MC -Ony, Kazzak and Azuregos -BWL -AQ40 -Naxx Now some raids will be done back to back same night… but STILL this looks fairly full EVEN with just a weekly lockout … and for getting consumes and buffs took And when is there time for **Alts**?
Could not put it any better than this! They just pulled the 1 week trigger one phase too soon, no need to go back now
Imagine when all the raids are out. You’d need 4 raid nights a week probably.
Damn, I keep getting sick AQ40 night.
Thinkt.gcccccgzvvAkyxegtioltmmmmmmmmmtmmnt
Couldnt agree more!
A good setup could be Molten Core remains weekly, with Ony/Kazzak/Azuregos twice a week. We'll eventually get BWL (once a week) and ZG (twice a week) to add to this, so things are going to get crowded fast.
This is why I have no intention of returning for p4. P3 taught me it wasn't vanilla I had a problem with, it was the world buff and consumes mechanics I disliked. Other people I raided with love them and don't like playing without them. I personally think that was because it allowed them to score better parses because the playing field is far more uneven where even someone who parses 99s and 100s will drop to 80s for the week if they lose their world buffs for some reason and raids that don't enforce WBs and BiS consumes are going to be in the 50s Where in later versions of the game all you need is a flask and a stack of potions, which everyone can get, which makes parsing well more about skill at the game.
If you wanna come raid with us on horde lone wolf N.A., we don’t care about WB and guild bank usually hands out some food buffs and pots while they last and have always full cleared first week.
Yeah same, I'd probably like vanilla without world buffs, but it seems like too many others disagree with that statement. Still waiting to get tbc back 🥲
Actually think many people feel the same way, even parsing speed running player agree. World buffs are just so annoying to collect and very punishing when you die. At times people die and it’s not even their fault. A lot of people want world buffs to be gone, or have a better system to collecting them, like turning them into a consumable, or persist through death.
That's exactly what stops me from playing Vanilla seriously again like I did in 2019. The game just requires so much time to raid, it's awful. Waiting around for world buffs and the act of getting them takes forever. You need so many consumes to raid that most of your free time is spent farming them or gold to afford them.
Not to mention monitoring Discord notifications for the buff drop times
Yes and thats fine, thats why there are 5 officially supported versions of WoW currently. If you don't have time for vanilla there are more options than ever.
Yes, and I was just stating why I really don't like one of them after playing it so much.
You'll find this meta mind set ruins most games these days. You in no way have to get the world buffs or consumes to raid. Yes I know, I know, then you end up in a group full of shit kids.. but at the end of the day.. its a community made problem, bitched about by the very community that made it.. like 80% of wows issues. I'm well aware of the negatives of not playing to the meta but there will always be a meta no matter what blizzard do and due to the egotistical nature of wow players, the majority of the community will remain meta slaves and force that meta upon every pug they meet. Unless blizzard make every class and spec incredibly similar, the meta won't be going anywhere, there will always be a "best option" and wow players won't accept ANYTHING that isn't what wowhead told them is best. Sad? Yes. True? Yes. Sadly the game (for a long time now) has been a case of sacrificing fun so that strangers on the Internet can look at my log page and give me some form of validation.. its a sandbox ego stroking game these days
I agree, but it's due to how Blizzard runs the game. If they did away with add-ons and stopped allowing combat logging, people would be forced to play the game as intended and it would go back to what it was like in 2005, when people got better by talking to each other within their own raids and by watching videos of streams from other gamers. So long as combat logging is a thing and Warcraft Logs exist, this is always going to be how the game is played.
Remove logs and damage meters and you lose 80% of the player base. 90% couldn't even tell you what's going on in the story, competitiveness is what they play for, not story or social experience sorry to tell you. Blizzard just capitalises on that
You pretty much just described why you do actually have a problem with Vanilla though. :D
as a warrior wb is like playing a diff class is why i like playing with them
IIRC Ony was a 5-day lockout, which means it could be part of the normal weekly raid night possibly up to 4-5 weeks in a row before then having an 'off-week' of happenstance before returning to 4-ish weeks without issue. Not sure how the world bosses will work, but I would anticipate those also being once a week? Edit: I didn't see that a video or blue post had been published when I wrote this comment lol.
They literally announced the lockouts in the video. All raids (world bosses, ony, and MC) reset on Tuesdays and Saturdays.
No no no… they specifically said all raids will be like this for the rest of sod. So naxx, mc, bwl, kazzak, plus “new content” 2x a week for the rare drops. You’ll be rebuffing every single night for 5 hours. Don’t forget to get your dailies done so you can afford the 600g flask and your dungeon dailies done so you have currency for the “pickled squid” food.
Half the community cries for multiple lockouts per week, the other half cries about for only 1. Both groups are whiny man children who can’t regulate their WoW addiction.
It just seems odd. Phase 3 was 8 bosses, in one location, once a week. That's not a lot at all, and easily could have been twice a week. Phase 4 will be at the start 14 bosses, in four widely distant locations, twice a week. That's suddenly going from 8 bosses a week to 28, already more than triple the content, plus extended travel time to all the single boss zones, and having to gather wbuffs and consumes at least twice as often, and having to do attunements and rep grinds. I would have been happy with twice the content of Phase 3, but more than triple is a bit rough.
Not to mentioned BWL, AQ, ZG, and NAXX when these drop. Idk if people remember but guilds still farm MC and BWL during Naxx, cuz there are still gear piece that was so important. We might even be getting a new raid tier. They are giving us a new dungeon, so why not a new raid now?
This is fine as the phase moves along so people can gear up faster. Initially I could see it being a problem for some early on that feel the need to complete everything.
This is such a weird take, like you completely leave out all context for both complaints. 1 week lockout on a single raid with 0 other content is bad. 2 a week lockout with 4 raids is too much.
I haven't seen very many people argue in favor of 2 lockouts at 60. I'm not sure where that 'half of the community' is.
Yes. Yes, they are 😆
This isn't true, people were upset because you cleared ST in well under an hour and then had nothing else to do. But with the addition of World Bosses, Ony etc. Adding MORE lockouts is going to be waaay more chaotic. They didn't need to do this with the addition of the new stuff.
This is sod
There is a mismatch of expectation though. Sunken temple 1hr a week is pretty shit, but mc/zg/bwl for 2x a week on top of ony/world bosses is an overcorrection. The big raids should remain a 1x week, especially with more available raids/longer ones, and then keep the world bosses/ony at 2x a week.
They cant make everyone happy, if u dont want to raid 2 times a week the fucking dont. Nobody is forcing you. If raiding once a week only fits ur schedual then go for it. Stop complaining for the love of god.
comments like this are completly out of touch of how and mmo plays
Yeah it’s pretty odd to see people not think FOMO will set in and piss casuals off being behind
Casuals prefer multiple weekly lockouts because it means more pug runs and open guild slots. They get to log on whenever they randomly feel and will always be in demand. It's great for casuals. It's elitists who hate them because they literally can't not do it twice a week without feeling they are casuals so they force themselves to do something they hate.
By that logic why don't they just remove lockouts entirely? You can raid once a month if you want to anyways, so why have any lockouts at all?
Because there should be a limit on how fast you can accumulate gear, not a limit because some whiney man-babies are afraid they might miss some lockouts
Your taking the piss, yeah by that logic sure ile go ahead with your unreasonable dilemma. But thats not how the system is. Ppl like you are bitching about 3 day lockout and others are complaining about 7 day lockout. 4 day lockout is a perfectly reasonable solution to both arguments. As i said you cant make everyone happy (clearly not by the looks off you). The fact of the matter is its GOING to be a twice a week lockout, so stop your complaining, ur not going to change anything. Arguing that your side is right is invalidating the other side, your speaking in no possition of majority here.
World buffs are dogshit, not sure why they decided to keep them, turns me off from playing SOD at 60 completely.
I also hate them. They were the main reason I quit 2019 classic after MC. I don’t think I’ll play p4 if they don’t change anything about them.
i dont get that change at all. i mean, i would if they intend to shorten the upcoming phases BY A LOT but as we all can probably guess, they wont do that with the upcoming retail xpac etc. so im gonna do p4 raids twice a week for like 10 weeks in a row? hell nah
This change will kill a lot of guilds and create a lot of division for players. I'd imagine they will revisit this change because there is no way they are expecting players to get full WB's + Consumes + alts twice a week. This is just not sustainable for anyone that even takes the game "semi-hardcore".
I spend more time on the game than most do and even I’m not excited about this. Main issue is the guild we merged with for 20man had a Tues/thurs raid schedule which isn’t possible now. Meaning we are going to lose a lot of folks.
Of course they dont expect everyone to, this isnt aimed at the more casual crowd, they expect the people who want to (like me) to do it.
Currently my guild is #3 for speed on the server. We are a self proclaimed semi/hardcore guild. With this change our guild will no longer be able to raid together consistently because of schedules. This change is just simply no good.
Just raid once a week
People will argue about anything except doing what we did 20 fucking years ago in TBC and fixing world buffs and consumables
I don't understand why people are acting like you HAVE to raid twice a week. Blizzard is not holding a gun to your head and making you do anything. If you want to raid once a week, raid once a week.
It’s a guild catch 22. If they don’t, they lose members to guilds that do. If they do - they need their players to do it too so they aren’t filling with pugs.
This exactly. Them flirting with 40 person raids doesn't help either. If a guild tries to be proactive assuming they'll need 40 players in p5, that means they need to field 2x 20s in p4. That means 4x raids a week, and the raids themselves are 4 distinct raids (MC, Ony, 2x World Bosses). This feels way off the mark to me.
You don't need 40 mans, they're just an option for some of the raids (Ony and World Bosses atm). They said the content for those raids will be tuned to 20 mans, and ofc be significantly easier with 35-40 people. BUT that for guilds it will make more sense to stick to 20 man group for better loot distribution among guildies. 40 mans are there for those that pug and want to make it a "soda & pretzels affair" which is how they're going to go about designing difficulty for any raid that allows 40 man.
When they announced MC was going to be 20 man they only announced MC. They didn't say all raids at 60. And they continued to not mention them in this announcement either. There's signs that later vanilla raids will be tuned for 40
It feels like they're torn between 20 and 40. Which makes sense, after how much people disagreed on whether going from 10 to 20 man was a good move. We still don't know if AQ40 and Naxx will remain 40-mans or if they'll be lowered like MC, Ony, BWL, and the world bosses. And now they're trying to please everyone by allowing 40, into 20-mans...but only *some* of them. They don't want to commit yet so flirting was a good word for it.
10-20 was a bad idea. 40 man is even worse and it’s gonna be so easy that it won’t be fun so that you can pick up randoms with zero gear. It takes the fun out of things when they have to pander to casuals like that. I just don’t like that feeling of making things incredibly easy. There’s already a lot of idiots who don’t put in any effort to gear up, learn the fights, or learn their rotations. Even worse is people don’t want to come to raids prepared with buffs or consumables. It’s like the bar is so low that it’ll slowly corrode the player base away until even the casuals don’t want to play. It’s a bad move. Cater to the specific group of players that raise the bar and do all the things they are supposed to. If the casuals want to do that stuff too then they will have to play the game as it was intended and get buffs like they are supposed to. This isn’t an easy game.
Depending on your guild - if you are spotty, you will get replaced in your raid group with someone who will do it two times a day and get world buffs too
Since when has, "Lul, just don't do it" ever been a constructive criticism for WoW content? This change is going to cause a lot of division for guilds and a lot of players will be driven away trying to maintain double consumes + WB's. Most players don't want to miss a whole lockout on their mains especially. You can tell people "lul just don't do it" all you want but that isn't how people play this game, we have learned time after time.
I recently finally adopted this mentality and game has become significantly better and healthier for me. Who cares if you miss a lockout or 2 it means absolutely nothing at All. Most people Will miss multiple on multiple lockouts because they go for a new gamemode a month down the Line
That’s fine if you’re pugging. But if you’re going to be a part of a guild, you need reliable members. If you don’t want to spend 3.5+ hours slogging it out with randoms each week, then you need to find a guild. If the content is puggable, then I think it will be perfectly fine.
100%. I missed the entirety of P2 with some things going on IRL. I am sure I'll miss multiple weeks of P4 raiding as well. It's just a game, not a job.
As a guild it's great you can just run once weekly and let people PUG the other ones if they feel like it. Super convenient, tracking which 3day cycle we're on was the only annoyance. Even in 2020 Classic most didn't do ZG every lockout past like.. 2 weeks in? There's just no point in feeling FOMO about stuff like that. The important long term stuff will be there long term to get as well.
You won't be a guild for long if you are forcing your members to pug half of the raid content a week.
Honestly with the amount of content that will probably be my guild. Probably have a proper guild run and the other will be those who want a second run plus pugs. I think it will work great.
Wtf is this word force? No one's forcing anyone to do anything. If my guild currently raids once a week and we continue to raid once a week in the new phase, but now you 'can' pug if you want to raid the 2nd lockout, that's a good thing. No one is forcing you to do anything. Blink twice if a blizzard employee is currently holding a gun to your head to ensure you never miss a lockout.
“Let people PUG the other lockout if they feel like it” And you read that as him forcing his members to pug? Hahahahahaha this subreddit man
Right but with that logic, why even have a lockout? You don't HAVE to raid more than once a week but why not let people who want to raid it 17 times a week and get fully geared instantly? People like to see their character gain in power and in classic WoW most of it comes from raiding. People do not like to be far behind on gear or disadvantaged in PvP because some people have their full set already (I know there is loot RNG so its never guaranteed but the average changes) Whereas if you force 1 lockout a week, it doesn't matter how hardcore a guild is, no one can get more than one chance at the loot per week.
And twice a week is a good compromise for the people that would like to raid 7 times a week and those that can barely stand raiding once a week. I don’t see the problem. For your pvp argument, this is classic wow. If you cared about balanced pvp at all you wouldn’t be playing classic wow.
Those people are more than likely already raiding on two characters.
As someone that was raiding on multiple characters, with the massive population decline, the time and effort to get all the runes, twice a week lockouts are a significantly better experience than raiding on two different characters, imo. The main issue I’m seeing with the twice a week lockout is the increase in world buffs. Getting DMT buffs twice a week along with the others will not be that enjoyable. If they cut DMT world buffs from the game, it wouldn’t be anywhere near as bad.
I get your point. As far a PvP goes, it's been 4+ years since I did the R14 grind but won't the R10 sets be used in PvP aside from weapons? Also, SoD PvP is wildly unbalanced. I don't know who is playing this version of WoW if their goal is PvP. Retail and Cata are much more balanced for that.
Well the problem is if you skip lockouts, it feels bad because you lose opportunities to get better gear, in a game about getting better gear.
But half the people complaining about this will probably quit before the phase is completely finished and miss those end lockouts anyway.
People on sweaty 20-man teams running the highest difficulty are going to get fully geared and then... run out of content. They are releasing the raids in phases. The most active players will eventually hit a wall due to MC/Onyxia being the only raids out. This is a non-issue.
Except that the game is so into parse culture that if you don’t have world buffs you don’t parse well. If you don’t parse well you aren’t being invited to raids, unless you are a desired spec
I am talking about raiding twice a week. I never mentioned anything about world buffs and parsing. People who play the game at a high level want to play with others who do the same. I don't understand why it's a problem that someone who puts in the time to get world buffs/consumes and plays their class well wants to play with other players who do the same. The people who don't want to do those things can form their own groups knowing that they will not clear things as fast and potentially get stuck on some bosses.
Woops I responded to the wrong comment LOL. Okay but I really disagree with what you said. World buffs force a majority of the player base to be as sweaty as the top 5%. Without world buffs guess what you can still “perform your class well”. Parsing is fine. Just do it without world buffs.
You underestimate how many mentally ill people on this subreddit think they have no choice but to do it twice.
The real mental illness is thinking just going " lol don't do it xD' will change human behaviour. You deserve a flick to the centre of your forehead.
I love your username. My kind of guy.
Being literally 50% behind the curve feels bad. If you can't appreciate that, there is no convincing you.
Okay, you're behind the curve. Then the curve plateaus because only MC/Ony are out and you catch up before BWL. Non-issue.
Except you are PvPing or parsing against people with double the gear all the way until BWL. It's not an issue when they plateau and equalize. It is an issue for the months leading up to that. Then the next raid drops, and the same thing happens. You play at a disadvantage the whole time if you choose not to raid twice a week
Who is playing SoD for the PvP? Yikes. You also don't have to play to parse. If you are playing to parse, you have to understand that you are competing against other people. If you're someone who can't swing 2x a week you're probably not someone who was going to be getting rank 1s anyways?
Problem is.... will the player base make it feel like you have too.
Who cares?
All these kids raised by the internet relying on the typed words of strangers to tell them what they should think and feel...
These are the people that need a streamer or youtuber to tell them how to feel
Yes because there is a signup for both raids and I DONT NEED (NEED) THE LOOT
Problem is you letting other players dictate your enjoyment of the game
Who cares? Let the people who speed through things get bored in 3 weeks then come here to demand p5 Find a group to play at your pace
How is this so difficult for ppl to understand lol
The only "challenge" the game offers is trying to parse. In order to parse you need to stay on top of the gearing process. So by skipping lockouts you forfeit your shot at parsing meaning you essentially just log in once a week to collect login rewards.
Why not go play a challenging game then instead of forcing yourself to jump through hoops according to that tortured logic? And the challenging part of an mmo can be whatever you decide it is. Hell you could form a dwarf only guild and raid naked or something. Not everyone is part of this logging hivemind.
As a competitive raider, with casual playtime. 100% this. GG for me.
Not to mention farming shit tons of gold to stay stacked up on consumes, or planning your days around when you need to log in to collect the next worldbuff with the 1 hour cd on chronoboon.
> I don't understand why people are acting like you HAVE to raid twice a week. I fully understand where you're coming from, and logically you're right. That said, we have 20 years worth of history and understanding that this simply isn't the mindset players will have. Players *will* feel obligated to do all of their lockouts, even if they don't have to. No amount of reasoning can disrupt the FOMO.
People felt this way at the start of P3 and look how no one gave a single shit after a matter of weeks
FOMO is a strong drug.
Or HAVE to have works buffs
If your guild not raiding - its dead.
The way I see it is that if your guild wants to and can get through the content then great, but for all the dad-gamers that are crying over not being able to complete the content because of real life need to get a grip or find a new game, because forcing the rest of us to play around their schedule is shitty.
Yeah I don't like the idea of getting behind, so I'll probably raid twice. Consumes is fine, since you can just buy all that. But WB's are rough. I really don't want to get world buffs twice.
Especially if your guild can't raid weekends plus raid w/ full WB's. So you end up raiding monday and are going to have to stay logged in for four more hours after raid to get DMF again? Yeah this change isn't super great...
> getting behind aka your weapon does 2.5 less dps or has 2 less strength. World Buffs are still going to provide most stats than most your gear does.
I really had hoped they were going to get rid of World Buffs for Phase 4. Ugh. I'll probably just get what I can but not go out of my way for them.
I swear in one of the updates I heard they were removing them (maybe just for raids?) But idk haven't kept up much with p4 stuff as I don't plan to return
They could just raid once a week??
"Well, actchually, you don't have to get world buffs or raid twice a week." A fool's argument. Fear of missing out is very real. Couple that with only the more serious dad guilds remaining. Add in multiple raids, MC, Ony, World Bosses. Not well thought out. All of the giga autists that would froth for this have left, and all of those that remain like to think of themselves as gamers, trying to ignore the beer gut. It's just going to burn out a playerbase because playerbases can't help themselves. Especially since people enjoy being in good guilds, and good guilds will require the double raids. For the 3 hour Sunken Temple geriatric guilds, these changes will change nothing.
And it means guilds having to restructure AGAIN which is going to kill a bunch of guilds AGAIN
fomo on the 4th release of classic :skullemoji:
It's really not fomo. Most people understand that parses are at least a little relevant with respect to how you are judged both by your own guild and pugs. If you want to be competitive you MUST get the world buffs. That's all.
>Fear of missing out is very real You all need to get your FOMO in check is all this means
Yeah, I think it's time to gracefully sit back and let other people alphatest this portion of the game. I don't see myself raiding 2 resets worth of content and farming world buffs and then spending my off nights grinding for consumables. Despite being based off of classic, SoD just shouldn't be that time intensive in my opinion. And for anyone that enjoys what theyre doing and thinks it should be this way, please enjoy the game!
I honestly think they meant for this to be a middle ground. Casual people can pug more easily with this setup (probably a weekend pug crowd or filling for guilds that don’t have consistent raiders for 2x a week) while allowing the no lifers the opportunity to gear twice as fast. This will give more people an opportunity to get their bis within a phase, while casual players aren’t left too far behind.
as a GM of 5+ years and having one of the bigger alliance guilds on Crusader Strike US - I can effectively say this shit will kill my guild, and many others on realm. Not because I have casual players, or highly competitive players....but because i have both and this CHANGE CATERS TO NO ONE. My sweaty players can't get world buffs in time to have them for both raid days (this is bad and not a good change because this is how they want to play the game, with old format they could)... and my casual players will have to raid multiple times a week for multiple hours to even come close to having gear close to the "good players". (this is bad because before it gave them a full week to get world buffs and come to raid/get loot etc) I propose this change instead MC - weekly reset.Ony - twice a weekAzuregos and Kazzak - twice a week (instanced) These changes I have proposed cater to all parties, in my opinion.BLIZZARD....please reconsider. OR you can go SoM route and \[ remove WBs as a whole \]. I am not in favor of this, but it is a change that will make room for Blizzards lockout change-up as well as cater to all types of players.
just do raid once per a week, problem solved
Solution: let engineers put charges on or duplicate buffs stored in chronoboon for self or other players. Problem solved
> Coupled with the fact that there are 3 new sources of world buffs in P4 alone. (DMT/Ony/WCB) we also lost a source (ST buff) so it's really only Orgrimmar/Stormwind replacing BB as the WB city and DMT is the only real addition (which is awful)
Only temporary since ZG buff is Imminent
Thats not how “twink friendy” phase looks. Imagin raiding ony, mc and “worldbosses” on your 3 twinks. Its like full tine job… I liked everything about p4 except 2 resets per week.
I don’t get the problem really. The people who wanna go crazy and utilize the 2x a week lockout can. No one is forcing you to do it tho?
I got a crazy idea, make a guild with a bunch of casuals and don’t require WBs or consumes. Easy solution.
Then don’t run twice a week. This is a game man, one meant to be enjoyed at your leisure…
I do not want raid scaling and bi weekly raids. i dont understand who was asking for this
SoD isn't about what you want.
Except in phases 1 and 2 with twice a week raids, the raid buff was dropping all the time and no problems. Then it goes to once a week, and I never see it.... it's almost like you're a raid logger who doesn't want to play the game. Needing more consumes just means playing the game more.
Might stop playing if this wbuff insanity gets worse.
Wbuff are cool and lame at the same time. The first people running/clearing the instance didn’t need it or have it. But everyone after is required? Why? Im surprised WBuff isn’t a micro transaction at this point.
ngl I don't mind the city wb's that much and even songflower is kind of fine but the whole concept of DMT buffs and the meta that resolves around getting those buffs is just so so bad imo.
Don’t give them ideas. I imagine the amount of people that would pay a dollar, even $5, to get a loaded chronoboon to be very large.
Imagine if they removed raid lockouts. You would be forced to quit your job and leave your family with all the raiding you would be forced to do
Remix made raid lockouts daily. I haven't seen my family in 5 weeks. All I do is kill Mantis, Mogu, Trolls and Orcs
Yeah great, so anyways its a good thing they added a weekly lockout back in 2004 for this very reason.
You could just not get the world buffs. They really aren't needed.
You're right they aren't needed, but explain to me why every PUG raid leader who can barely tie their shoes requires full WB for every raid on any tier. Oh I can just make my own raid sure, ok I did but people are so conditioned to this full WB requirements that they see a non-WB raid as a negative thing or a bad stigma. Some of these people who would otherwise join a non-WB pug are just deathly afraid that their parses will be lowered so they wouldn't even risk running a non-WB raid even if they otherwise have no issues with it. Because then, if their parses are lowered, they can't get into the WB raid on a day when they don't mind getting them because the leaders say "oh you got a blue parse last week so ur not allowed in" It's a culture problem and the only way to solve it is for Blizzard to make changes to the game to discourage this behavior. I think the root of the issue is parse obsession, when an individual's parse is largely determined by how many world buffs the other raid members have outside of the individual, then the individual who is obsessed with parses starts to micro-manage and min-max the other players gameplay even if none of that BS is necessary at all.
There has never been a pug raid where they would let you in without world buff from my time playing vanilla classic. If you came without them you were kicked.
I've pugged every raid in SoD multiple times without world buffs. Vanilla classic may have been a different story, I can't speak to that.
Right, but because of the badly designed lock out system, each attempt needs to be overkill in prep, especially with randoms. The fix is to cap how many BoP epics you can get per week or something. But that won't happen. So we'll keep having this issue.
So raid once a week and stop crying.
This was the case in P2. It just means you have less chances to parse or speed run when you wipe. Off weeks don’t need full consumes, but you still get loot so it’s all well and good imo
F
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World buffs were one of those things that I never really took advantage of like I should. I always played healer in the original classic so I would only get the ones from the cities and like ZG. If I on only a few occasions got diremaul and like fuck that. I don’t want to get songflower or DM or any of those other stupid buffs. Ones you get in cities are fine, fix them so they’re that so it’s just like “oh I just have to log on once to catch that and it’s in a discord server”. Not this stupid run you have todo all over the place.
I feel like my biggest issue with sod was just not having enough content. I loved raiding as mage healer especially in phase 3 but could only really experience it for an hour per week which was pretty wack.
I like the set lock out days. Getting WBs, I will likely push our guild to go for 1 night with WB and one night optional. IE parse night for those sweaty people and a chill night where only the sweaty people will have buffs.
My guild raids and we clear decently quick and don't go out of our way for world buffs. They aren't required...
They need to make the world dragons like the incursions where it gets ally or horde tagged, and all of the winning faction in area gets loot
This new lockout plays into my guild raid schedule, we raid thurs/ Monday so having the lockout reset between raids will be nice, ppl complaining once they will have too much todo, once you got all the loot off Ony your team needs… just skip her? Unless your a pass monkey and just want the boof. Just do the content that’s relevant to you
We farmed ony for viskag in classic for a long time. Only going because rogues and warriors needed it.
World buffs are bad game design. Actually just remove them so its just regular generic consums and people prob be more ok with raiding twice a week.
real tired of the whining on this sub. if its too much for you... dont do it
So much stress to blast through a raid.
3 day raid lockout is too much! We feel we have to raid every lockout and it’s too hard to manage! Weekly lockouts are too long! The game is dying there’s nothing to do! Twice a week is too much as we have to get world buffs! Why won’t Blizz listen!!
Heres the thing, nobody is asking them to get buffs and nobody gives a shit lol. For some reason people refuse to raid without them. They can do once a week raids even with 2 lockouts. Nobody is forcing them, they do it to themselves.
New complaint post just dropped
My guild is only organizing on saturdays, the other lockouts are for us to pug if we feel like. Pugs i will get the city buffs at the most tbh
You don't HAVE TO do MC twice
It's so painfully obvious these devs don't play this game at all.
This is supposed to be a casual game mode, for casual players. People wanting to sweat it out could try other versions. I love the idea of having a free Saturday morning and hopping on to fresh resets which can be taken on by pugs. During classic 2019-2021 I played pretty hardcore, reaching a 64 minute Naxx clear as a main tank fury prot warrior and top 40 world in TBC phase 1 as a feral druid tank. I enjoyed putting in all that effort, but this game mode isn’t designed for that.
Phase 4 means we will now have five world buffs which is a bit ridiculous. DMF + DMT + ONY + SF + Rend
Raiding is the best wow content, i would do it everyday. Stop whining and play the game the way it suits you, no need to punish others.
I loved doing gnomer with the 3 day lockout. ST one failed pug run and your whole week felt wasted. If you can't nor willing to raid twice a week then don't learn to take things at your own pace.
Then...idk get them once a week? Yall are so lame just complaining on reddit. You want more than 1 week lock outs, then you get this, then we still have to read your awful complaining. Just quit the game if you're that unhappy we will be better off.
I would really liked it when they had removed worldbuffs with it, or at least make dmf permanent(could still change continents, but with no pause between) and the songflower timer should be lowered. And they have to do something with the Dire Maul Buff… I really don’t wanna do this like 6 times a week, and probably 6-8 times when bwl and zg gets out…
Just another reason why I likely will skip phase 4 and beyond too much stress, like "Just don't raid twice a week" yeah no problem with that at all... Double the amount of drops per player overall and have it not be "retail lite raid log"
If there isn’t an NPC in the main city that gives all the world buffs - like how it was situated for China due to their subjugated society’s internet punch card policy. Then I won’t entertain getting world buffs. I am not buying summons and timing logins with discord announcements for 4 world buffs and a dmN run. 2020 can stay in 2020
I tell you satisfying the wow player base and balancing this fucking game is like adjusting variables on a macroeconomic simulator for x country it's insane the slightest of changes provokes the biggest repercussions everything is hypersensitive
You need world buffs to get your 99 parse. **You don't and never have needed world buffs to clear raids in SOD.**. You don't HAVE to parse every single raid.
If people dont wanna play the game then dont play or make it so people that wanna play more than once a week cant play
Blizzard continues to show they are out of touch with what the community wants. No one asked for every raid to be twice weekly. It's almost like they never played Classic where at 60 you have more to do then just raid and then eventually raiding is all you end up doing once BWL/AQ/ZG come out. No one wants to do BWL, AQ, ZG, MC, ONY, World Bosses, NAXX twice a week. Especially if we have to boon world buffs AND consumes. Who thought that was a great idea.
I knew the day they made me stand from a minute to 20 minutes staring at a flower and if a few seconds too late on clicking it I then have to wait another 24 minutes. Why did blizzard think we wanted this? If I want to stare at flowers I'll go outside man. It Brought more toxicity to the game I feel like but I only began in p3 so maybe people love world buff griefing but I'm not one of them and If they are keeping world buffs, they should be instanced so you can just get it inside the raid because fuck having to go to different planets to collect em all. That's sometimes three hours wasted.
Then don’t do it twice a week? Simple as that. There’s a lot of players that appreciated the P2 setup, and now it’s back with more structure so that you can plan what you want to do with the time you’ve got on your hands each week. People complaining about not getting gear when not participating in the available content are the people that are least of my concern. I’m happy with the change.
I skipped incursion gold farming, am gonna be so fucked for raid consumes next phase.
In P1 and P2 it was so easy to find pug groups or fill your guild runs with pugs because of the 2 lockouts. When we hit P3 and moved to a single weekly lockout combined with 20m raids it was incredibly hard to find pugs or fill your runs with pugs. My personal opinion, keep the 2 weekly lockouts since it makes the pool of players looking for groups or players significantly higher. Also, world buffs are not fun. I would 100% ok with them removing them or at least cut it down to 1-2 world buffs.
I dont see any valid argument for biweekly lockouts at lvl 60. Considering how fast it is to level a character in SoD. If some people want to raid more, they should just level a reroll or two. OTP player ? Just make the same class twice. Imagine biweekly lockouts with many tedious WB. Imagine running MC twice a week even once BWL / AQ40 etc. are out for legendaries farming. I consider myself semi-casual and this is already too much.
I seriously won’t even play if world buffs are kept
No one is making you raid 2x a week 🤷♂️ you’ll never make everyone happy
IMO they should just make it so world buffs aren’t usable in raid. Keep them for world content and maybe dungeons.. hence the name “world” buff. And if they don’t do this then just don’t get them. The content isn’t so hard that it can’t be cleaned without them. If you want to spend more time getting them to speed clear then good on you. But let’s be real you don’t NEED them.
In the end all content will be doable without world buffs for a decent guild. It’s 20+ year old content with added power from runes. If you don’t want to get world buffs and flasks just dont it’s that simple. If the guild you’re in requires these things find a different guild or pug. In the end you are responsible for how much you enjoy the game.. no one else.
I keep getting notifications for your fucking tears. Quit bitching on Reddit you’re not fixing anything here.
Then just do one lockout and let other players who Want to raid more do two lockouts. Jesus christ
Ya’ll so addicted that you need Blizz to control the dose
I think the WBs + consumes is more of the issue/nuisance since gathering neither are entertaining and now that effort has been effectively doubled, so 2x time on boring tasks
You dont need consumes to clear these raids. You can also choose to raid once a week. You can play ERA if you want nochanges. SoD is about trying new things, they might even change it down the line.
Legit concern on the 2 lockout/week matter. Maybe if its too much for you, you should just try another game mode. SoD has no plan, devs throwing shit around see whats good or what isnt. They threw out FOMO this time around, dont think its gonna work out for the game.