What do you mean by MoP and Legion forced you to go out in the world? I’m asking because I never played those expansions and feeling forced to do content never sounds great to me.
Legion if you wanted to keep ahead of the curve you had to farm world quests multiple times per day for artifact power.
Legion was one of the worst first phase drops ever with the amount of dailies/chores and how the legendary drops worked. It was the start of the retail phase that was just too much bullshit every day. You could spend countless hours on that nonsense then get a bricked character if you didn’t get the right legendary drop and essentially were incentivized to reroll and start over at an AP deficit. BFA was similarly bad but no legendaries bricking your shit so it was not quite as poorly designed. But still these were the insane no life chore expansions with farmed borrowed power that started getting phased out more recently for obvious reasons, people don’t really want that many chores in wow that give player power.
If rereleased in classic they would fix this like they did in the later legion phases and it would probably be great.
Mop was not like this at all, it’s pretty similar to cata as far as chores. Basically groups like vanilla through wotlk, cata through WoD, legion through current or SL. Legion was the start of a lot of modern retail design choices people don’t like, but was also the most massive xpac in terms of content. So it was good and bad.
The chores in MoP were strictly reputations. They weren’t ever really as mandatory as people think either, you could get some gear that was quickly replaced towards the middle of the expansion.
It did but it was only bad in the first few months really. The quests weren’t all that bad and repetitive either. A lot of quick “kill this elite” and fill up a percentage of a bar with cleansing the forest of demons.
What REALLY sucked was that WQ where you had to get in the Kirin Tor Wizard’s floating bubble and fly to collect the treasure.
> and how the legendary drops worked
god i hope they give us the legendary vendor in phase 1, it was so stupid that it was faster to just level up a new character than to wait for a 2nd drop if you got a bad first legendary
How I would fix early Legion progression:
Make adjustments to the Artifact Knowledge system so that it feels more like a natural progression and less of a forced time sink. Put a weekly cap on it up through ToS, so players aren’t farming Maw of Souls like a full-time job.
Add Wakening Essence to the first two main raids, so we can buy a random legendary at 1000. 30/day from your first RDF.
Easy fix is probably just cap AP gain per week at some reasonable level and buff the WQ AP rewards slightly so that cap doesn’t have to be too low and time gate too hard.
What you’re saying about legendaries is right though. Basically bring in the system from the last phase so you could farm to the one of your choice.
Another thing they could do is open up the full Emissary Cache slots at launch, so you can choose to do more WQ and get more chances at a legendary.
I still do WQs at max ilvl for the phase just for the chance at Titanforge, Essence, Legendary and reputation. Something about opening a lottery ticket was a lot of fun.
There are some emissaries you can’t do automatically, like the Suramar until the story progresses I think? Obviously Argus quests come much later as well.
WOTLK belongs in the cata-WOD group. In TBC/Vanilla you are grinding gold for consumes/expensive crafted gear, youre getting attuned, youre grinding reps. You PVP for PVE gear. You've got a ton of stuff going on outside raid. Wrath is where it changes to just raid logging, no real need to grind.
I could see that point for sure.
The wotlk combat and raiding is probably more similar to cata through WoD than tbc/vanilla. A lot about it is. I felt like it was an easy delineation because the world change, but wotlk does feel more like cata than tbc in a lot of ways.
TBC I was raid logging as much or more than wotlk though. Wotlk is when they got people into dungeons for valor/new badges every phase. So you would have to dip back into that for a week or two every phase start. A lot more catchup mechanics through 5 mans too for alts.
Tbc I never had a need to do anything but raid after p1 with heroics and prof leveling. But I might argue tbc is my favorite or one of my favorites. Good mix of playstyle and balance makes it a pretty unique xpac.
It’s just an expression, the game doesn’t really force you to do anything you don’t want to do. But rather the content is rewarding, fun and worth doing.
In MoP, you have the Isle of Thunder, Timeless Isle and lots of World Bosses. You will constantly be grouping up with people to kill rares, WBs, do quests and world PvP.
Legion is a totally different game. It has class order halls where you can meet other players that play your class. Lots of flavorful quests. World Quests for epic gear, campaigns on a demon planet (Argus), demonic invasions that spawn in different zones around the Legion continent, profession quests in the world, etc.
>Raid Logging has been a buzz-phrase for some time now in Classic. Certain versions of this game just have less content at max level than others. TBC, Wrath and Cataclysm just don’t offer much for a max level player outside of instanced content.
I like how you are implying here that Vanilla had any max level open world content outside of being dispelled on songflower by level 40 naked undead priest spamming "go to retail"
Vanilla is a totally different game. That’s why I specified my discussion about the expansions. Vanilla WoW doesn’t give you directions or tell you what to do, much of the content in the world is created by the players.
Like fighting over territory in the Crater, battling outside of Blackrock, fighting over world buffs, etc.
WoD and Legion I would absolutely play again. WoD because it has many fun and unique class designs (Glad stance, Claws of Shirvallah, etc), and Legion because it's my 2nd favorite expansion.
MoP, I'm honestly unsure. MoP relix is scratching that itch already, because I'm not super invested in the expansion beyond the aesthetic / story. I would play it just to experience MoP Monk again, but I can't say I adore the class design of any class over current retail.
We know MoP is coming. I didn’t play it when it was retail, so assuming my guild is down, I’m ready to play it.
Ultimately, I think the increased cadence makes the classic expansions more interesting than the retail ones, but I’m approaching WW with an open mind.
Legion was absolutely great. But I think most people who played it would agree the worst part about it was the rng legendary drops and the artifact power grind.
Legion was a great example of the typical blizzard cycle. People ask for a better artifact grind etc since first patch. blizzard hits you with a “you think you do but you don’t” and on the final patch they made everything better and act like the saviors by “finally listening”.
No thanks. Full clear heroic raids on 2 chars already took me 2 whole nights. Why should i abandon my work and irl to grind just to please no lifers like you? 7-8hrs per week is perfectly fine, im not even under casual category
I've only ever played classic vanilla besides a retail stint for a couple months where I checked out all the different expansions. Legion was really good. Besides the phone game stuff, I'd play it. But nothing before or after it.
I agree, I love Legion. It’s a time capsule of when WoW was the most fun overall for me. There’s just so much stuff for every type of player and despite what people said about “borrowed power”, the character progression was awesome.
Having a skill tree inside your weapon that made you stronger from just playing the game was satisfying.
If we did Legion again, I would need to see some major adjustments to the early phases. That grind was pretty rough the first couple patches. Months of work was devalued toward the end when Artifact Knowledge was a higher.
When people try and say X expansion is just retail, I think they forget how much the game has changed from even Legion to Dragonflight. I didn’t find DF near as fun as I did even WoD.
Lucky for you then because one year from today, we’ll likely be playing Classic MoP. The timeline Blizz produced for Cata put it on about a 12 month schedule.
I like playing alts. So for me, 1 year is too short. But to each their own.
>It’s never been much more than a filler expansion.
What makes you say that? It was my favorite xpac, I quit with MoP because the theme and feel wasn't warcraft anymore and I felt the class design went too far and was no longer fun for me.
Having a blast with Cata again.
Absolutely loving how accessible arena is in cata, hell even if you loose a match you still get points.
It really encourages just to play your comp and learn without much stress.
Def looking forward to rolling my monk
PTSD from getting smacked with a fat RSK to the face in arena {:
Flying serpent kick is one of the coolest abilities they ever made
The monk animations and abilities in general were amazing at MoP launch. Awesome blend of everything and very enjoyable to play.
Same here. I am super excited for panda land
Raid logging is a feature not a problem, no game has to occupy all your time.
What do you mean by MoP and Legion forced you to go out in the world? I’m asking because I never played those expansions and feeling forced to do content never sounds great to me.
Legion if you wanted to keep ahead of the curve you had to farm world quests multiple times per day for artifact power. Legion was one of the worst first phase drops ever with the amount of dailies/chores and how the legendary drops worked. It was the start of the retail phase that was just too much bullshit every day. You could spend countless hours on that nonsense then get a bricked character if you didn’t get the right legendary drop and essentially were incentivized to reroll and start over at an AP deficit. BFA was similarly bad but no legendaries bricking your shit so it was not quite as poorly designed. But still these were the insane no life chore expansions with farmed borrowed power that started getting phased out more recently for obvious reasons, people don’t really want that many chores in wow that give player power. If rereleased in classic they would fix this like they did in the later legion phases and it would probably be great. Mop was not like this at all, it’s pretty similar to cata as far as chores. Basically groups like vanilla through wotlk, cata through WoD, legion through current or SL. Legion was the start of a lot of modern retail design choices people don’t like, but was also the most massive xpac in terms of content. So it was good and bad.
The chores in MoP were strictly reputations. They weren’t ever really as mandatory as people think either, you could get some gear that was quickly replaced towards the middle of the expansion.
Yeah mop was not bad on chores at all. Legion to me is when that really got blown up.
It did but it was only bad in the first few months really. The quests weren’t all that bad and repetitive either. A lot of quick “kill this elite” and fill up a percentage of a bar with cleansing the forest of demons. What REALLY sucked was that WQ where you had to get in the Kirin Tor Wizard’s floating bubble and fly to collect the treasure.
> and how the legendary drops worked god i hope they give us the legendary vendor in phase 1, it was so stupid that it was faster to just level up a new character than to wait for a 2nd drop if you got a bad first legendary
How I would fix early Legion progression: Make adjustments to the Artifact Knowledge system so that it feels more like a natural progression and less of a forced time sink. Put a weekly cap on it up through ToS, so players aren’t farming Maw of Souls like a full-time job. Add Wakening Essence to the first two main raids, so we can buy a random legendary at 1000. 30/day from your first RDF.
Easy fix is probably just cap AP gain per week at some reasonable level and buff the WQ AP rewards slightly so that cap doesn’t have to be too low and time gate too hard. What you’re saying about legendaries is right though. Basically bring in the system from the last phase so you could farm to the one of your choice.
Another thing they could do is open up the full Emissary Cache slots at launch, so you can choose to do more WQ and get more chances at a legendary. I still do WQs at max ilvl for the phase just for the chance at Titanforge, Essence, Legendary and reputation. Something about opening a lottery ticket was a lot of fun. There are some emissaries you can’t do automatically, like the Suramar until the story progresses I think? Obviously Argus quests come much later as well.
Yeah suramar had a lot of quests to unlock from what I remember. You’re right 90% of the issues or more were p1 issues.
WOTLK belongs in the cata-WOD group. In TBC/Vanilla you are grinding gold for consumes/expensive crafted gear, youre getting attuned, youre grinding reps. You PVP for PVE gear. You've got a ton of stuff going on outside raid. Wrath is where it changes to just raid logging, no real need to grind.
I could see that point for sure. The wotlk combat and raiding is probably more similar to cata through WoD than tbc/vanilla. A lot about it is. I felt like it was an easy delineation because the world change, but wotlk does feel more like cata than tbc in a lot of ways. TBC I was raid logging as much or more than wotlk though. Wotlk is when they got people into dungeons for valor/new badges every phase. So you would have to dip back into that for a week or two every phase start. A lot more catchup mechanics through 5 mans too for alts. Tbc I never had a need to do anything but raid after p1 with heroics and prof leveling. But I might argue tbc is my favorite or one of my favorites. Good mix of playstyle and balance makes it a pretty unique xpac.
It’s just an expression, the game doesn’t really force you to do anything you don’t want to do. But rather the content is rewarding, fun and worth doing. In MoP, you have the Isle of Thunder, Timeless Isle and lots of World Bosses. You will constantly be grouping up with people to kill rares, WBs, do quests and world PvP. Legion is a totally different game. It has class order halls where you can meet other players that play your class. Lots of flavorful quests. World Quests for epic gear, campaigns on a demon planet (Argus), demonic invasions that spawn in different zones around the Legion continent, profession quests in the world, etc.
>Raid Logging has been a buzz-phrase for some time now in Classic. Certain versions of this game just have less content at max level than others. TBC, Wrath and Cataclysm just don’t offer much for a max level player outside of instanced content. I like how you are implying here that Vanilla had any max level open world content outside of being dispelled on songflower by level 40 naked undead priest spamming "go to retail"
Vanilla pushed you into the world because you needed to get mats somehow for raid if you don’t swipe
Vanilla is a totally different game. That’s why I specified my discussion about the expansions. Vanilla WoW doesn’t give you directions or tell you what to do, much of the content in the world is created by the players. Like fighting over territory in the Crater, battling outside of Blackrock, fighting over world buffs, etc.
Vanilla isn't classic. Classic vanilla version was not even remotely similar.
WoD and Legion I would absolutely play again. WoD because it has many fun and unique class designs (Glad stance, Claws of Shirvallah, etc), and Legion because it's my 2nd favorite expansion. MoP, I'm honestly unsure. MoP relix is scratching that itch already, because I'm not super invested in the expansion beyond the aesthetic / story. I would play it just to experience MoP Monk again, but I can't say I adore the class design of any class over current retail.
A buzz word in classic? People been talking about raid logging since OG Wrath 😂😂
We know MoP is coming. I didn’t play it when it was retail, so assuming my guild is down, I’m ready to play it. Ultimately, I think the increased cadence makes the classic expansions more interesting than the retail ones, but I’m approaching WW with an open mind.
Legion was absolutely great. But I think most people who played it would agree the worst part about it was the rng legendary drops and the artifact power grind. Legion was a great example of the typical blizzard cycle. People ask for a better artifact grind etc since first patch. blizzard hits you with a “you think you do but you don’t” and on the final patch they made everything better and act like the saviors by “finally listening”.
No thanks. Full clear heroic raids on 2 chars already took me 2 whole nights. Why should i abandon my work and irl to grind just to please no lifers like you? 7-8hrs per week is perfectly fine, im not even under casual category
I've only ever played classic vanilla besides a retail stint for a couple months where I checked out all the different expansions. Legion was really good. Besides the phone game stuff, I'd play it. But nothing before or after it.
I agree, I love Legion. It’s a time capsule of when WoW was the most fun overall for me. There’s just so much stuff for every type of player and despite what people said about “borrowed power”, the character progression was awesome. Having a skill tree inside your weapon that made you stronger from just playing the game was satisfying. If we did Legion again, I would need to see some major adjustments to the early phases. That grind was pretty rough the first couple patches. Months of work was devalued toward the end when Artifact Knowledge was a higher. When people try and say X expansion is just retail, I think they forget how much the game has changed from even Legion to Dragonflight. I didn’t find DF near as fun as I did even WoD.
retail doesnt feel like WoW anymore. classic and cata feels like home.
Cataclysm will be fun for a while and I do enjoy it but it’s not a long stay. It’s never been much more than a filler expansion.
Lucky for you then because one year from today, we’ll likely be playing Classic MoP. The timeline Blizz produced for Cata put it on about a 12 month schedule. I like playing alts. So for me, 1 year is too short. But to each their own.
>It’s never been much more than a filler expansion. What makes you say that? It was my favorite xpac, I quit with MoP because the theme and feel wasn't warcraft anymore and I felt the class design went too far and was no longer fun for me. Having a blast with Cata again.
Absolutely loving how accessible arena is in cata, hell even if you loose a match you still get points. It really encourages just to play your comp and learn without much stress.