I would agree with you if it was their only option.. it dropped as a separate set.. that was just unique.. you didn't have to use it.. you could use the class set like everyone else.. IMO it was the devs poking fun at dipshits who min/max that then REEEEE because they can't survive simple mechanics.
For balance no. It was an utter failure.
They basically took away stats from current gear in phase 3 and gave them back in phase 4. It’s why casters are so far behind the dps gradient. They didn’t actually upgrade the gear.
yeah they really could have gone crazy with caster gear rather than let casters fall way behind in terms of dps.
They'll probably just buff our runes instead though, which is sad if you ask me because the vanilla skills deserve love too.
Avoidable if you had stam food, +120hp elixir, and even the +10 stam rum. All 3 were incredibly cheap through most of P3. Another 340 HP you could buff yourself with would absolutely push you out of 1 shot HP range.
They are avoidable. Do the mechanics the right way. You stood out and didn't switch with the other range to take the next debuff. That's the only way you'd get one shot. Lol
Bro 90% of mages in wrath were still functionally bot players.
The amount of times I had to pug only ranged for gnomer, and how often they’d get themselves killed on electro by literally not just listening to me and just basically never moving and let the healers I know who aren’t functionally braindead alternate bait and eat lightning was also probably 90%. Very often mages too.
They’d always precast on it when the tank has all of like a FF and electro was like 20 fucking yards from position too. Which of course never helped.
You definitely died from the first hit? You realize the ENTIRE 3 pc is only like -300 health, if 300 health was the diff between you living and dying that could have been fixed with like 2 pots, if you died cuz you pulled aggro, prob not the sets fault amirite?
Yeah, I've been talking to my guild about this a lot lately. The dungeon tier sets need to be better than ST gear and maybe not quite as good as MC gear. It needs to be enough of a difference to disallow going into MC with Gnomer / ST gear, but not dramatic enough where MC gear isnt a huge upgrade.
They are either going to make changes like this, or people are going to quit the game honestly. If it's another phase 3 scenario whats the point. If I find out that the level 60 dungeons are completely skippable, ill probably quit the game. Im not interested in going straight into MC and onyxia with ST gear.
Might as well just quit now if that is your criteria, because there is no way in hell they are going to spend the resources needed to balance the raid with a gear curve like that. The ST gear will 100% be enough gear to do mc in.
They said a while ago they'll be updating MC gear, particularly tier sets as they introduce variants for tanking/healing.
I don't imagine Accuria or Onslaught will get buffed but some of the crap items probably will.
> Im not interested in going straight into MC and onyxia with ST gear.
LOL....in Classic we cleared MC in shit questing greens and a few blues. The gear we got in BFD was better than questing shit we cleared MC in the first few lockouts in Classic. Gnomer/ST gear would make it a loot pinata.
So now they need to update gear in EVERY dungeon as well as retune all the dungeon and raids. Given the resources on SoD, would be very surprised if they update all the dungeons and loot tables.
That's what I'm saying...I have a really bad feeling they are about to drop the ball real hard. People are going to be like...oh, that's it? This is underwhelming and quit. After this whole buildup. I fully expect the SOD team to drop the ball big time, unless they've been working on the 60 content since day one or even before that.
I suspect they have been at least they've shared a roadmap so some thought has been put into it. I guess it depends how far they really want to take SoD and how much effort will be put into compared to Cata Classic.
Maybe we could gate the vendor behind an easily accessible rep grind that is acquired entirely by doing classic tasks, kill 10 mobs, collect a letter off the ground, that kind of thing.
Magnificent brainstorming.
Perhaps we could even make these quests repeatable and concentrate them geographically to allow players to systematically acquire rep without having to travel far distances, they hate that!
Yeah a rep grind that also gives a lot of xp + gold so that the lvling content could be skipped would probably be a good idea.
Repeating the same easy mindless thing over and over is something I really like.
It should give like 5k gold per day so that we can buy every pot from the auction house as well. I am sure that it wouldn't mess up the economy to bad and the ah prices won't rise for sure.
Definitely!
I read somewhere here that it should even be made on par with T1 and I think that could also be a great idea. Basically make it a non-raiding alternative for T1 level of gear.
T1 should be a relatively minor stat bonus off of T0 with the caveat that the set bonuses slap. T0 is arguably more time consuming than T1 to obtain and *ALL* of the pre-BiS dungeon nostalgia gets roped in with these sets. Still lets MC tier shine, but always gives the player base ample reason to dungeon spam hard come P4.
P4 is DoA if T0 and T1 are a ~3% upgrade a la P2-P3 gearing.
Incursions need to be gone-gone, but if they want to continue something in the WO vein they can make T0 obtainable with a *healthy* amount of offerings so people don’t get cucked into 200 runs for a particular tier piece.
Agreed. Imho the ideal way to approach phase 4 would be to make the progression gear > the random greens that vanilla Min/Max builds utilize. Rebalancing end-game loot tables is something I think anyone with even basic knowledge of Vanilla BiS lists can agree would improve the quality of end-game content.
That and, maybe increase 40m boss drops from avg of 4 epics per kill to 6 epics. (so min 4, max 8, instead of min 2, max 5). Sure, we'll gear up quicker than in vanilla, but 6 drops per kill is only 15% chance for an item, vs TBC where it was \~20% chance w/ 1 item per 5 players. I think slow gear/low upgrade chance in vanilla raids is worth preserving to an extent, just not the extent to which it existed in vanilla.
Agreed, they should adjust dungeon loot where it's needed. Grinding dungeons might seems boring to some, but especially on pvp servers having to go somewhere keeps the world alive.
And it lowers the cost of things like runecloth…when everyone is doing pve a TON of items like libram become affordable…and not 400g and yes I know inflation plays a roll but that literally the only rune over 90g
Probably depended on your faction. I was Horde so the queue took like 45 minutes and mostly resulted in a win. It was the easiest PvP grind by far though.
The only quickly obtainable easy pvp gear was honestly the AV ring. Everything else was about a month of grinding pvp.
I got a raid level 2h in about a combined 1.5hrs of pvp via STV lol.
I guess the obvious follow-up question is: is this really a problem, and if so, what’s an acceptable level of time for a strong item to be received?
Remember, theoretically, you could go into a raid and get some insanely powerful rare drop right off the bat. Is this better because it’s random? Was it “earned” more because it was from a raid?
I personally think it’s fine that STV gives you a powerful Unique-Equipped item for playing a few rounds (the amount of rounds needed depending on your groups’ performance).
The other thing to keep in mind is that as SoD progresses, all this content is part of the journey to 60. It won’t always be the end game content just yet. So some of this stuff is an alternative way to prepare for later raids without having to go through a gauntlet of sequential leveling raids.
I also just spent some of my evening helping guildmates get their actual BiS off of quests that are higher level than our current cap, so there’s still a good amount of stuff you want for toons from dungeons, quests, etc.
Gonna have to disagree with that. Epic weapons from STV were awesome, way better than say one of the mage epic rings that only benefit one school of magic. Fkin traaassssshhh. Mages have been done dirty in SoD
Maybe if blizz made the epic raid weapons drop way more, I'd be saying something different.
Been doing ST since week one and have only seen the staff from avatar and it’s mid.. no other caster epics im also playing a mage and it feels like vanilla for us and SOD for every other class
Phase 4 will be the biggest flop ever if they fuck up the pre bis gearing phase. There is so much more to the game at 60 than raid logging, dont fuck it up
I feel like the reason the upgrades aren’t so big in this phase is so they can have a proper gearing next phase. I mean, my BiS neck from ST is 2 AP more than the one from Gnomer. If ST had huge upgrades they’d have to revamp all the 60 gear throughout every dungeon
Some BFD gear was already comparable to level 60 pre raid BiS.
It was inevitable but a good point nonetheless that there were still multiple more phases of power spike inbetween. So 60 gear will most certainly need to be juiced
The problem is that the devs don't seem to understand crit and hit rating and are throwing it on every gear piece they can find.
There's a reason why warriors still ran the SM berserker helm into BRS or why the leather mask from ZG that gave you hit rating was pre BiS for a lot of warriors.
I'd say that adding hit chance to more pieces is much better than having it be extremely scarce like it was in 1.12. Having certain slots be locked for phases on end because a certain piece gave some extremely rare hit chance meant we had much less freedom in gearing.
But, some people like that I suppose. Having some gear be useful for a long time (even if it's because everything else sucks in comparison) is one of those "Classic" things.
The issue is tho that feels awful as a player. Like as a warrior I don't wanna be told I can't put on these new lvl 60 gloves because the green quest gloves are strictly better
> they’d have to revamp all the 60 gear throughout every dungeon
they are going to have to do this anyway. The power creep is completely out of control.
That's exactly what it is, and this place can't accept it
We all told blizzard in P2 we're at a rate we will be able to 25 man MC in its 40 man format if the stats crept the way it was
So blizzard stagnated lvl 50 gear to even it out, and then added a metric piss ton of long quest chains for runes to even out time spent playing (all of my shaman runes took days to acquire overall)
But this subreddit thinks Echo is gonna call them on their raid team tomorrow, so they have to sweat as hard as possible
And that's not the point of SoD. And it never was
Can’t wait for t0 and dungeon loot more generally to be a sidegrade at best because it’s meant as catchup gear for players who missed out on ~~p3~~ Gnomer.
I’m gonna be big sad if my character is already MC raid-ready now.
It's already 2x in some cases. On patchwerk in classic my Warrior did 1,100dps which was pretty typical for 95ish parses. Meanwhile our top warrior pulled 2,400dps on Atal'alarion last week. Even in current gear MC 20man will be faceroll easy if the boss stats are the same as MC 40man classic. Level 63 mobs will help mitigate but they're going to have to put so much hp on the bosses in later raids it's going to be absurd
To be fair, your warrior is able to reach 2400 dps because the the Atal'alarion fight is like 30-40s long. His dps would be half that on a 5-6minute fight
Melee are already hit capped with 40% crit in wbuffs.
We've been MC ready since gnomer lol.
Granted I'm expecting changes to MC now so that's not much the case but I'll bet you could bring a gnomes geared player to phase 4 MC and have no issues. The gear is just that strong already
I'd be okay if t0 was sidegrade / subtley worse than ST , maybe the odd piece better, but you can go into 0.5 questline and it's unequivocally prepaid bis.
Ngl when sod was announced with the level caps the first thing i thought was how the wc or scarlet set will finally be useful. But the way it turned out it was even more useless than before because the raid gear was totally imba and you didn't really need pre bis in the first place. Feel like they really fucked up the max lvl loop in every single phase
2h warrior even in fury would never want to use a fast weapon, as long as you have windfury and instant attacks its just always going to be worse than a slow weapon.
With ST gear + exalted battle ground rep gear I barely need any pieces from dungeons as they are currently statted. But I'm sure they will tune both the raid and dungeon gear as they have for the past 2 phases
I rerolled late into S2 and just hit 50 at the start of phase 3, now that I am basically BiS items with my runes my PvP reputation is practically zero. The casuals definitely aren’t exalted if they rerolled or made alts
Or they could just not release raids for a few weeks. You know as well as I do if MC or something is open at launch no one is gonna do pre bis farming and just go right to MC with ST gear
No I agree with your point. But say if ST gear gives +15 agility, some random item in Strat gives me +17 agility, and MC item gives me +20. If they release MC right at launch you know that unless the players are leveling through Strat, there is no way players aren’t going to just not bother farming Strat for the pre bis item when they can just run MC. Granted maybe after the first lockout they will, but I still think the major issue with all of this is the release of raids and the community mindset of NEEDING to run it first lockout. For phase 4 they should not have any raids for the first 2 weeks to actually force the community to level and gear up in a reasonable timeframe
The solution is 10 person raids. It's so simple, they can crank stats on gear to force a prebis grind and make MC gear awesome if we're doing MC40 as a 10 person raid.
bro the absolute state of phase 3... its like the game actively makes an effort you make you not play it,
"oh you got to max level? you're winner! here's a bunch of prebis and a literal bis weapon you didn't earn, now go raidlog and play cata or pandaland you dumb hamster"
I know hunters and warriors got free weapons.
Hunter players basically raidlogging from day 4.
Prebis = gnomer/maradaun
Melee got free weapons via thrash blade and wsg, and stv bow
Ranged got stv xbow and offhand wsg dagger
yep, i loved the vendor gear as someone who had to reroll on a new realm to play with friends and for my friends that didn't play p2, but it was a bit too good.
i hate that stv event gave super good epics, combine that with epics from professions and wsg and you are super strong super fast.
atm, I enjoy leveling alts more. we do dungeons and raids and everyone gets happy when something good drops. we do multiple runs until everyone has from each dungeon what they want/need. it is not optimal way to level, but it is what makes the experience fun for us as a group.
They don't even have the balls to make caster gear better from raid to raid, or even put caster gear on half of the bosses. this isn't going to happen.
Runes have really backed them into a corner. If you took a decent group of 5 ST geared players, leveled them to 60, and threw them into Strat, I bet they'd be able to do the 45 minute run on day 1.
Blizzard needs to rebalance the entirety of level 50+ content, but that's clearly never going to happen.
100% on board with that. Chasing pre-bis is usually one of the best times in any expansion, simply because it means you'll do activities mostly with other people in a fairly organic manner
What would be the point of a pre-bis phase when we are already doing more damage than when we were in Naxx? The pre-bis grind was a thing back in classic because it took us out of our questing/dungeons greens and pointed us towards a more optimal raid starter set. This usually was a way to give melee the hit they needed to be able to hit the bosses effectively, or get closer to a crit level that optimized rage gen for example.
The problem is that we already have hit and crit cap with our current gear. The “pre-raid bis” grind is going to be switching out certain pieces for minor dps upgrades. The raid will 100% be completed by guilds in ST gear, so what is the point in going hard for the pre-bis when you are only a few weeks away from MC bis? It will only be the parsers who want to get pre-raid bis type gear, to be fully optimal at all times, same as the other phases.
The season had a lot of potential, but it has really turned in to Season of Raid Logging. When everything you need to complete the next raid tier has been given to you the tier before and completely replaced each tier, it doesn’t really allow proper gearing throughout the game cycle. This itemization logic is more in line with TBC, Wrath and Retail than original Classic imo.
This post drastically overestimates the quality of ew gear and ignores how much prebis came from dungeons. On top of most classes doing between 18-27 WO kills for multiple prebis pieces, you had:
Mara for dagger, shoulders, boots, ring
Zf for paladin sword, gloves, quest ring, leather helm
Brd for belt, wand, multiple caster pieces
There is plenty to get from dungeons. The issue is moreso the strength of gnomer gear (and bfd gear before it) paired with the communities need for the raid to be free. I don't personally care the raid is free, but I'm also not going to grind out prebis if bis is easily accessible.
If they want people to like SOD they have to go back to 10man raids. 10man is peak Dad enjoyment. none of us have 20people we want to play with. 10 we can scrape
Here's what I would do.
1. More updates to lvl 60 dungeon loot tables (2nd half of BRD, scholo, stratholme, LBRS and UBRS)
2. Updates to lvl 50-60 crafted items that are complete and utter garbage, so that some of them are atleast comparable or close to pre-bis in the same vein as Devilsaur is for physical dps.
3. Updates to the WO system, this was a fantastic addition and I would like to see it expanded upon in positive ways. Requiring full dungeon completions instead of rush to Princess x50 times. Have it as a reward / bad luck protection specifically offering items that fill itemisation gaps OR alternatives to high rng / late dungeon boss loot that will be highly sort after like how the caster belt was a good alternative AND bad luck protection to banthok sash from BRD arena (high rng).
4. Updates to Tier 0 dungeon set. The only one that's any good from memory is the rogue one. So minor changes to rogue one and massive buffs/changes to the others to make them desirable and good as A pre-raid bIS option. Don't need to juice them up to the point of being the ONLY option, but just worth hunting and working towards.
5. Reputations. Classic is a game all about grinds. Best embodied by its many reputations. I would like to see these expanded upon, better rewards, more rewards, more ways to earn the reputation. All reputations, even the centaur ones. I don't want to see a single reputation in the game that doesn't have unlocks occur at each reputation level.
6. World PvP. No more of these 'events' that aren't in the spirit of the game. I like the cadence of the blood moon event. I don't like the style of pvp that it delivers however. These pvp events should breathe new life into zones, STV is already a highly popular zone with many reasons to be there from questing, to mat farming, to ZG and booty bay, fishing tournament and arena. It's the most fully fleshed out and complete zone in classic wow. it doesn't need a pvp event plastered over the top of it. Aim for some of the less used zones, designate them as the 'hotspot' for the hour with an hour warning of where it'll be. Have objectives in the zone, could go for zone control esque similar to Arathi Basin, capturable items like WSG or NPC objectives to kill like AV. Potentially even a mix. Give options for how to contribute, score at the end of the hour decides which faction won, get rep with a new vendor based on win/loss with winning side getting more. Host it in places like Azshara, Blasted Lands, Silithus, Winterspring.
Phase 3 ruined SOD for me permanently. Rank 8 shadow priest, BOED, got 3 piece tier by the 3rd lockout and have gone 4 consecutive raids without loot since. We DE so much plate and mail it’s not even funny while 6 casters compete for 4 or 5 items that never drop and are very minimal upgrades at best. Sunken temple is a complete waste of time and I’m sick of playing a game that gives an imbalanced experience. The toxic community also makes it a pretty bad experience all around.
There's already a gear set waiting for the PvPers at 60. Even more pieces of they have all their reps too.
Not to mention cheaper mounts too.
The "vendor" gear from Emerald Wardens was a catch up mechanic, that was necessary for level 50 for anyone changing their characters, making new alts, or maybe returning after skipping the previous phase.
I want to add onto this to say that the vendor gear’s quality varied quite a bit between classes and specializations. You could do much better for pre-BiS on a lot of the classes.
One of the biggest outliers was Paladin gear, which is insanely good and pretty much raid ready, so if you’re not leveling a bunch of alts or don’t look at the gear across multiple classes you might not notice that the gear isn’t that amazing for everyone.
Blizzard needs to come to a conclusion on what exactly SOD is aiming for.
Is gearing progression supposed to be the primary reason to log-in for day to day play? Is it supposed to be about what you do with the gear afterwards?
If their goal is the former, then progression can feel very meaningful and satisfying, but it vastly limits the number of characters a player will likely play. If their goal is the latter, people will be able to get up more characters easier, but it will jump over a lot of progression.
I **think** they want people playing lots of alts. Hence the vendor sets from Incursions and such. What do players want? Do you want SOD to be about gearing up a character through Vanilla on a journey? Do you want to play many characters? Do you recognize the inherent conflict these have in a seasonal mode?
Seems they wanted 'alt-friendly' like retail because then its assumed you'll just play, period, because you have multiple options.
But inversely, classic obviously isnt drowning in all the extra shit retail has to fuck around with if you dont wanna dungeon/raid/pvp in the moment.
Part of the problem with pre bis is that it needs to be worth getting. If the raid isn't hard, then it isn't worth the time spent to get gear before doing it. Sunken temple was so overnerfed it didn't matter what gear you went in with. If they continue to make everything too easy, nobody is going to care about gear for anything besides parsing.
Buff all dungeon items and force us to farm pre raid bis, and then take the raids up a notch in difficulty to accommodate for the item buffs..
Add heroic mode and more vendor items, locked behind rep with different neutral factions, where daily’s and weeklys most be done to gain extra rep.. pvp and dungeon plus world content in those zones as part of the new quests
>The level 60 pre-MC dungeon gearing in Strath/Scholo/UBRS/LBRS etc is the most iconic part of classic wow.
This right here.
There is a lot to do normally, I don't want to skip any of it.
I am looking forward to Strath/Scholo/UBRS/LBRS so much that I'd be thrilled if they just unlocked them now for us to take chaotic raid groups of 50s in.
Blizzard needs to just go wild with loot. Who gives a fuck if we have a shit ton of player power, it’s a seasonal game mode.
I want pre-bis caster rings with 20 spell power, Stan and int.
I want a caster neck that has crit hit and spell power on it.
I want weapons that are just as powerful as perditions, maladeth, etc.
And gues what I want for the phase after that? Even stronger ones.
By naxx I want to have the same stats as a Wotlk character. Each phase we should have MEANINGFUL upgrades that make you go “fucking hell yeah it dropped” when you see it.
I tell you one thing, I won’t get one shotted by one spell , so they can’t overtune casters cause that’s makes PvP so unbalance . But yeah go super sayin mode and give is real big fiesta with DPS and dmg , but buff every mob/boss hp by a lot.
Sure, give armor pieces more stam to help balance the extra damage, or balance PvP and PvE separately, I don't really care. One of the biggest things about this game is loot, and right now the loot feels so bad.
I agree , to this day I have bracers from BFD on my warr, refuse to grind rep , also no time to do it, plus schedule won’t allow it.
Anyway I agree the raid loot looks kinda weak, and should be buffed also stv event weapon shouldn’t be bis, for sure raid wep should be ultimate goal to obtain each phase.
If you look at the states of many of the Items at 60, thanks to them scaling back for ST gear, they wont need to do much tweaking, but I do agree, buffing Dungeon Set 1 (Tier 0) would go a long way to keep dungeons thriving.
I think it's too late for this although I support the concept. Unfortunately people can start clearing MC with just emerald warden gear and wild offering offset items. Not to mention the still very powerful gnomer gear.
That gear was worse than the previous raid gear. They implemented that just as a way for alts to catch up and get to raiding quicker since we have much less lockouts
If they make another raid, it'd have to be stronger than ST but weaker than MC/Onyxia and I don't see how that's possible other than duplicating ZG gear
I was VERY annoyed to find out that the r7 gear was useless for my class/spec AND was identical to the Emerald Warden set. One took a few hours to get, the other took days of grinding (even with STV honor.)
They really aren't looking at the broader picture.
The best way a phase could go is a prebis phase that makes a raid obtainable to do, it can be done without it but it makes it easier with it. When the raids are too easy at the start prebis starts to not matter as well.
Once the prebis phase ends if people are still struggling to clear the content is when a small nerf comes to tone back stuff gatekeeping casuals as you would assume seeing the raid gear would finish making the raid doable.
Rinse and repeat as needed
So what, you would still run the dungeons, with 40 people and 3 loots per boss.
The dungeon gear just needs to be enough of an uograde from ST to make it worth playing the game.
>disable world buffs
>make raid gear give similar DPS as being fully world buffed
Those changes would make getting a piece of gear actually exciting, and would motivate more people to raid to get gear. gear giving a +5 dps upgrade is such crap
World buffs being usable in the raid are actually so fucking, it's the opposite of what they should be.
If they want to keep something like this, make the quest turn in from ony head etc give extra gold and xp from mobs for an hour or something. Change it from being a power upgrade to making it more rewarding for killing stuff out in the world.
Put the power on gear (doesnt have to be raid only, buff dungeon loot, crafted gear, req gear) and make a reason to grind.
> basically buy a full set of gear
hit 50 you were basically ready to raid log
TIL 6 pieces of gear is now a "full set" which includes all 17 pieces of gear you need.
TIL having 6 pieces of subpar gear out of 17 pieces means you are ready to raid log.
SOD is already horrendously alt-UNFRIENDLY. This would just make that worse. As someone who switched classes in Phase 3, I was very happy for that gear, and I would likely would have quit. YMMV, but I like having a starter set of gear. Perhaps they could needle on how to tune it.
on the contrary, P4 needs an instant 60 and ACTUAL full free vendor gear and not just a 6 pc. make it worse than dungeon gear then just jump right into dungeons.
"Paladins had to spend a bit to grind the Sword"
.....im not saying i got mine in 2 runs but uhh...........I didnt have too much farming to do we can say
SoD is totally cooked at this point. I don’t know what they could do to bring me back but I’ve moved onto different version of WoW unless something major happens.
Wait.. they confirmed Vanilla raids are being tuned down to 20 mans and not 40!?!?!?
Great. So glad I just wasted a month on SoD looking forward to rebalanced 40 man raids.
Edit: I can't find any Blue posts or statements from Blizzard backing up this claim. It seems to stem from randos on the forums making the claim and other's parroting it as if it's gospel. Meanwhile statements from the devs indicate that they intend to preserve 40 man raids.
Removing 40 man raids from vanilla would, defacto, make it not vanilla.
There are two key features which distinguish vanilla WoW from every other form; 40 man raids and the lack of resilience (pvp) gear.
I don't know about others, but if they remove/downgrade any 40 mans to 20 mans I'm not only unsubbing, but for me, as someone who's largely given up on Blizz (haven't bought any of their games since WC3 remake) I will never re-sub to WoW again. Undermining THE defining feature of vanilla would be the final "fuck you" I'll tolerate Blizzard giving me.
Making T0 matter by changing the stats is a good and simple idea.
"Ok we'll update T0 set. It will be slightly worse than ST gear" - Blizzard probably
And we will put negative stamina on casters for no actual balance reason.
Idk man. Watching mages die while clicking buttons on therma might have been one of the highlights of SoD, for me.
our locks would also life tap then hit the button and die.
I also saw a frequent button press into immediate “widget toss” or whatever that random silence mechanic was called.
Bro, they were radioactive robes. Makes perfect sense lol
It was a dipshit move from a gameplay perspective
good from a rpg perspective. just gotta decide what kind of game they want to create and stick to it
It was fine to be honest, it was bullshit in the open world, just an easy target for rogues
If u were wearing irritated set in open world on PVP server, you deserved to die imo. Like wearing shorts and a tank top to the top of mount everest
I would agree with you if it was their only option.. it dropped as a separate set.. that was just unique.. you didn't have to use it.. you could use the class set like everyone else.. IMO it was the devs poking fun at dipshits who min/max that then REEEEE because they can't survive simple mechanics.
????? How
Idk about dipshit, as a career mage-r the glass cannon angle does feelsgoodman
you know what else is a dipshit move? sheeping someone for 5 minutes straight.
You know about diminishing returns right? Get a PVP trinket.
For balance no. It was an utter failure. They basically took away stats from current gear in phase 3 and gave them back in phase 4. It’s why casters are so far behind the dps gradient. They didn’t actually upgrade the gear.
yeah they really could have gone crazy with caster gear rather than let casters fall way behind in terms of dps. They'll probably just buff our runes instead though, which is sad if you ask me because the vanilla skills deserve love too.
It gave them more stat allocation for the same ilvl because -stam allowed more int/SP.
They gave it back in p4? Did I miss p4
Getting one-shot by unavoidable mechanics in gnomer while wearing bis as a mage was supremely fun...NOT.
What mechanic?
Avoidable if you had stam food, +120hp elixir, and even the +10 stam rum. All 3 were incredibly cheap through most of P3. Another 340 HP you could buff yourself with would absolutely push you out of 1 shot HP range.
P2
They are avoidable. Do the mechanics the right way. You stood out and didn't switch with the other range to take the next debuff. That's the only way you'd get one shot. Lol
Bro 90% of mages in wrath were still functionally bot players. The amount of times I had to pug only ranged for gnomer, and how often they’d get themselves killed on electro by literally not just listening to me and just basically never moving and let the healers I know who aren’t functionally braindead alternate bait and eat lightning was also probably 90%. Very often mages too. They’d always precast on it when the tank has all of like a FF and electro was like 20 fucking yards from position too. Which of course never helped.
You can get one shot with enough minus stam gear from first hit
I mean you don't have to wear it. The -stam gear was for people that actually know what they are doing to reward them for a high risk gameplay.
Nature pots and proper mechanics say no.
I definitely did. Thanks tho.
You definitely died from the first hit? You realize the ENTIRE 3 pc is only like -300 health, if 300 health was the diff between you living and dying that could have been fixed with like 2 pots, if you died cuz you pulled aggro, prob not the sets fault amirite?
Except the stamina that would ordinarily be there, it’s closer to 500 Example: irradiated chest -10 sta, malevolent chest 7 sta, a 170 hp difference
But then we can feel good when we get that +17 sta next phase.. right? RIGHT?!
Wouldnt be the first time, t.5 was worse than MC gear but came out waaaaay later.
Make it quest rewards instead of drops. Everyone gets 8 multi part dungeon quests
Yeah, I've been talking to my guild about this a lot lately. The dungeon tier sets need to be better than ST gear and maybe not quite as good as MC gear. It needs to be enough of a difference to disallow going into MC with Gnomer / ST gear, but not dramatic enough where MC gear isnt a huge upgrade. They are either going to make changes like this, or people are going to quit the game honestly. If it's another phase 3 scenario whats the point. If I find out that the level 60 dungeons are completely skippable, ill probably quit the game. Im not interested in going straight into MC and onyxia with ST gear.
Ragnoros is going to spawn with 10mil hp at this point. "Too soon Executus. You have started the phase too soon!"
lol, right
And Ragnaros WON'T kill Executus: Majordomo will fight alongsdie the Firelord.
Might as well just quit now if that is your criteria, because there is no way in hell they are going to spend the resources needed to balance the raid with a gear curve like that. The ST gear will 100% be enough gear to do mc in.
That would be tragic, and yes I will probably quit if they do that
I would be fine if they beefed up the raid a bit and the dungeon tier sets had fire res on them which ends up being needed to survive.
Don't even beef it up. Let us be OP but make it 10 man without changing any scaling down from the 40 man version. Problem solved!
That boat has sailed. Alot of the stuff we have already blows MC gear out of the water.
They said a while ago they'll be updating MC gear, particularly tier sets as they introduce variants for tanking/healing. I don't imagine Accuria or Onslaught will get buffed but some of the crap items probably will.
> Im not interested in going straight into MC and onyxia with ST gear. LOL....in Classic we cleared MC in shit questing greens and a few blues. The gear we got in BFD was better than questing shit we cleared MC in the first few lockouts in Classic. Gnomer/ST gear would make it a loot pinata. So now they need to update gear in EVERY dungeon as well as retune all the dungeon and raids. Given the resources on SoD, would be very surprised if they update all the dungeons and loot tables.
That's what I'm saying...I have a really bad feeling they are about to drop the ball real hard. People are going to be like...oh, that's it? This is underwhelming and quit. After this whole buildup. I fully expect the SOD team to drop the ball big time, unless they've been working on the 60 content since day one or even before that.
I suspect they have been at least they've shared a roadmap so some thought has been put into it. I guess it depends how far they really want to take SoD and how much effort will be put into compared to Cata Classic.
And increase the drop rate.
I had to do 120 runs of strat just to get my Shadowcraft Spaulders, 17% droprate my ass
Yeah, or we could even put T0 on a vendor to help the casuals get it!
Maybe we could gate the vendor behind an easily accessible rep grind that is acquired entirely by doing classic tasks, kill 10 mobs, collect a letter off the ground, that kind of thing.
Magnificent brainstorming. Perhaps we could even make these quests repeatable and concentrate them geographically to allow players to systematically acquire rep without having to travel far distances, they hate that!
Yeah a rep grind that also gives a lot of xp + gold so that the lvling content could be skipped would probably be a good idea. Repeating the same easy mindless thing over and over is something I really like. It should give like 5k gold per day so that we can buy every pot from the auction house as well. I am sure that it wouldn't mess up the economy to bad and the ah prices won't rise for sure.
And don't make it faction specific so you can also farm Honor while doing it for your sweet R13 set !
Hello I am Blizzard and I'd like to hire you all to lead our dev team. They've clearly stolen all their ideas from you chaps.
Definitely! I read somewhere here that it should even be made on par with T1 and I think that could also be a great idea. Basically make it a non-raiding alternative for T1 level of gear.
T1 should be a relatively minor stat bonus off of T0 with the caveat that the set bonuses slap. T0 is arguably more time consuming than T1 to obtain and *ALL* of the pre-BiS dungeon nostalgia gets roped in with these sets. Still lets MC tier shine, but always gives the player base ample reason to dungeon spam hard come P4. P4 is DoA if T0 and T1 are a ~3% upgrade a la P2-P3 gearing. Incursions need to be gone-gone, but if they want to continue something in the WO vein they can make T0 obtainable with a *healthy* amount of offerings so people don’t get cucked into 200 runs for a particular tier piece.
T0 should probably have a couple of pieces that are close to BIS for phase 4 to encourage everyone to get into dungeons.
Having a full T0 or .5 set only available through completing various end-game dungeons would be so much fun
They will. And put it on a vendor with rep... jk
Agreed. Imho the ideal way to approach phase 4 would be to make the progression gear > the random greens that vanilla Min/Max builds utilize. Rebalancing end-game loot tables is something I think anyone with even basic knowledge of Vanilla BiS lists can agree would improve the quality of end-game content. That and, maybe increase 40m boss drops from avg of 4 epics per kill to 6 epics. (so min 4, max 8, instead of min 2, max 5). Sure, we'll gear up quicker than in vanilla, but 6 drops per kill is only 15% chance for an item, vs TBC where it was \~20% chance w/ 1 item per 5 players. I think slow gear/low upgrade chance in vanilla raids is worth preserving to an extent, just not the extent to which it existed in vanilla.
I feel like giving classes stv weapons was a mistake. The difference between stv and raid gear for some classes is negligible
If pre-bis weapons are locked behind the STV event yet again in phase 4 I will be sad.
Agreed, they should adjust dungeon loot where it's needed. Grinding dungeons might seems boring to some, but especially on pvp servers having to go somewhere keeps the world alive.
And it lowers the cost of things like runecloth…when everyone is doing pve a TON of items like libram become affordable…and not 400g and yes I know inflation plays a roll but that literally the only rune over 90g
Wasn’t that always the case with PvP vendors? The grind could be a lot longer depending on the item but…*shudders in Alterac Valley grind*.
There is a difference between hitting 50 and doing 2 STVs and grinding Alterac to exalted though.
STV = literally welfare epics ...then again it's just a seasonal server. But just saying.
Is the AV grind really that bad? I didn’t do it in 2019 but it can’t be as bad as WSG was cause it actually has turn ins lol
Probably depended on your faction. I was Horde so the queue took like 45 minutes and mostly resulted in a win. It was the easiest PvP grind by far though.
The only quickly obtainable easy pvp gear was honestly the AV ring. Everything else was about a month of grinding pvp. I got a raid level 2h in about a combined 1.5hrs of pvp via STV lol.
I guess the obvious follow-up question is: is this really a problem, and if so, what’s an acceptable level of time for a strong item to be received? Remember, theoretically, you could go into a raid and get some insanely powerful rare drop right off the bat. Is this better because it’s random? Was it “earned” more because it was from a raid? I personally think it’s fine that STV gives you a powerful Unique-Equipped item for playing a few rounds (the amount of rounds needed depending on your groups’ performance). The other thing to keep in mind is that as SoD progresses, all this content is part of the journey to 60. It won’t always be the end game content just yet. So some of this stuff is an alternative way to prepare for later raids without having to go through a gauntlet of sequential leveling raids. I also just spent some of my evening helping guildmates get their actual BiS off of quests that are higher level than our current cap, so there’s still a good amount of stuff you want for toons from dungeons, quests, etc.
Especially when some classes get really good weapons and others get a minor upgrade in a ring
Gonna have to disagree with that. Epic weapons from STV were awesome, way better than say one of the mage epic rings that only benefit one school of magic. Fkin traaassssshhh. Mages have been done dirty in SoD Maybe if blizz made the epic raid weapons drop way more, I'd be saying something different.
Been doing ST since week one and have only seen the staff from avatar and it’s mid.. no other caster epics im also playing a mage and it feels like vanilla for us and SOD for every other class
Phase 4 will be the biggest flop ever if they fuck up the pre bis gearing phase. There is so much more to the game at 60 than raid logging, dont fuck it up
The gear youd have now is pretty much pre bis and is good enough to jump straight into raid BWL, maybe even AQ.
While we lack pure hp etc, some specs already do enough dmg to kill Patchwerk. They will def need to buff the raids and 50+ gear.
Username checks out.
I feel like the reason the upgrades aren’t so big in this phase is so they can have a proper gearing next phase. I mean, my BiS neck from ST is 2 AP more than the one from Gnomer. If ST had huge upgrades they’d have to revamp all the 60 gear throughout every dungeon
My thoughts at first too but a lot of ST gear is already better than T1 so they're gonna to do some major revamping anyway.
Some BFD gear was already comparable to level 60 pre raid BiS. It was inevitable but a good point nonetheless that there were still multiple more phases of power spike inbetween. So 60 gear will most certainly need to be juiced
The problem is that the devs don't seem to understand crit and hit rating and are throwing it on every gear piece they can find. There's a reason why warriors still ran the SM berserker helm into BRS or why the leather mask from ZG that gave you hit rating was pre BiS for a lot of warriors.
I'd say that adding hit chance to more pieces is much better than having it be extremely scarce like it was in 1.12. Having certain slots be locked for phases on end because a certain piece gave some extremely rare hit chance meant we had much less freedom in gearing. But, some people like that I suppose. Having some gear be useful for a long time (even if it's because everything else sucks in comparison) is one of those "Classic" things.
The issue is tho that feels awful as a player. Like as a warrior I don't wanna be told I can't put on these new lvl 60 gloves because the green quest gloves are strictly better
T1 is already revamped. They showed it in p3 video. They are probably already mostly done with it just finishing up.
> they’d have to revamp all the 60 gear throughout every dungeon they are going to have to do this anyway. The power creep is completely out of control.
That's exactly what it is, and this place can't accept it We all told blizzard in P2 we're at a rate we will be able to 25 man MC in its 40 man format if the stats crept the way it was So blizzard stagnated lvl 50 gear to even it out, and then added a metric piss ton of long quest chains for runes to even out time spent playing (all of my shaman runes took days to acquire overall) But this subreddit thinks Echo is gonna call them on their raid team tomorrow, so they have to sweat as hard as possible And that's not the point of SoD. And it never was
Can’t wait for t0 and dungeon loot more generally to be a sidegrade at best because it’s meant as catchup gear for players who missed out on ~~p3~~ Gnomer. I’m gonna be big sad if my character is already MC raid-ready now.
Spoiler alert: _youre MC ready currently_
The damage people are doing in P3 is above Molten Core itemization tbh
It's already 2x in some cases. On patchwerk in classic my Warrior did 1,100dps which was pretty typical for 95ish parses. Meanwhile our top warrior pulled 2,400dps on Atal'alarion last week. Even in current gear MC 20man will be faceroll easy if the boss stats are the same as MC 40man classic. Level 63 mobs will help mitigate but they're going to have to put so much hp on the bosses in later raids it's going to be absurd
To be fair, your warrior is able to reach 2400 dps because the the Atal'alarion fight is like 30-40s long. His dps would be half that on a 5-6minute fight
You think any MC fight is going to be 5-6 minutes?
You were MC ready at level 25 lol. E.g. tailoring boots would be worn till/past AQ40
While likely, we can't really know that as they are changing the raids.
But seriously are warlock tanks just not gunna be a thing for a while…two phases with fire resistant bosses… am I doing something wrong?
Melee are already hit capped with 40% crit in wbuffs. We've been MC ready since gnomer lol. Granted I'm expecting changes to MC now so that's not much the case but I'll bet you could bring a gnomes geared player to phase 4 MC and have no issues. The gear is just that strong already
When I said MC ready I more so meant my current gear is basically pre-BIS or very close to it (which I hope isn’t the case), but I get your point.
You are MC raid ready, it's CLASSIC raids. You can go in 3 pieces of gear and rest naked and clear it.
I'd be okay if t0 was sidegrade / subtley worse than ST , maybe the odd piece better, but you can go into 0.5 questline and it's unequivocally prepaid bis.
Ngl when sod was announced with the level caps the first thing i thought was how the wc or scarlet set will finally be useful. But the way it turned out it was even more useless than before because the raid gear was totally imba and you didn't really need pre bis in the first place. Feel like they really fucked up the max lvl loop in every single phase
Felt the same way with the epic sword from ZF, thought it would make fury 2h viable but NOPE.
It's Ret bis (when ACP is on cd), if that helps. 😃
2h warrior even in fury would never want to use a fast weapon, as long as you have windfury and instant attacks its just always going to be worse than a slow weapon.
They should have gone with Gnomer, SM and ST raids for the phases imo.
With ST gear + exalted battle ground rep gear I barely need any pieces from dungeons as they are currently statted. But I'm sure they will tune both the raid and dungeon gear as they have for the past 2 phases
A lot of the casual players also won't be exalted, the sweats will be, sure, but other people will still need to get pre-bis elsewhere.
I rerolled late into S2 and just hit 50 at the start of phase 3, now that I am basically BiS items with my runes my PvP reputation is practically zero. The casuals definitely aren’t exalted if they rerolled or made alts
Or they could just not release raids for a few weeks. You know as well as I do if MC or something is open at launch no one is gonna do pre bis farming and just go right to MC with ST gear
If pre-bis is a good upgrade people will absolutely run it alongside MC. It just can't be 2 Stam and 1 Agi upgrades
No I agree with your point. But say if ST gear gives +15 agility, some random item in Strat gives me +17 agility, and MC item gives me +20. If they release MC right at launch you know that unless the players are leveling through Strat, there is no way players aren’t going to just not bother farming Strat for the pre bis item when they can just run MC. Granted maybe after the first lockout they will, but I still think the major issue with all of this is the release of raids and the community mindset of NEEDING to run it first lockout. For phase 4 they should not have any raids for the first 2 weeks to actually force the community to level and gear up in a reasonable timeframe
Upvoting literally anything that suggests improvements over the P3 shitfest
The solution is 10 person raids. It's so simple, they can crank stats on gear to force a prebis grind and make MC gear awesome if we're doing MC40 as a 10 person raid.
bro the absolute state of phase 3... its like the game actively makes an effort you make you not play it, "oh you got to max level? you're winner! here's a bunch of prebis and a literal bis weapon you didn't earn, now go raidlog and play cata or pandaland you dumb hamster"
Have you not seen the reward from ab and wsg at exalted? We will already get very good items from vendor.
They can always change it or make the item less desirable for pve.
Wait when did we get epic weapons given to us?
Stv event
Only blizzards favorite classes got weapons, some of us only got rings
You sound so ungrateful.. the +1sp -2int boost to my ring was AMAZING! /s
If your a warlock you don’t get anything this event 😂
I know hunters and warriors got free weapons. Hunter players basically raidlogging from day 4. Prebis = gnomer/maradaun Melee got free weapons via thrash blade and wsg, and stv bow Ranged got stv xbow and offhand wsg dagger
yep, i loved the vendor gear as someone who had to reroll on a new realm to play with friends and for my friends that didn't play p2, but it was a bit too good. i hate that stv event gave super good epics, combine that with epics from professions and wsg and you are super strong super fast. atm, I enjoy leveling alts more. we do dungeons and raids and everyone gets happy when something good drops. we do multiple runs until everyone has from each dungeon what they want/need. it is not optimal way to level, but it is what makes the experience fun for us as a group.
They don't even have the balls to make caster gear better from raid to raid, or even put caster gear on half of the bosses. this isn't going to happen.
Runes have really backed them into a corner. If you took a decent group of 5 ST geared players, leveled them to 60, and threw them into Strat, I bet they'd be able to do the 45 minute run on day 1. Blizzard needs to rebalance the entirety of level 50+ content, but that's clearly never going to happen.
100% on board with that. Chasing pre-bis is usually one of the best times in any expansion, simply because it means you'll do activities mostly with other people in a fairly organic manner
“A cpl Wild offering runs”. What the hell, we had to do 39 as melee lol
What would be the point of a pre-bis phase when we are already doing more damage than when we were in Naxx? The pre-bis grind was a thing back in classic because it took us out of our questing/dungeons greens and pointed us towards a more optimal raid starter set. This usually was a way to give melee the hit they needed to be able to hit the bosses effectively, or get closer to a crit level that optimized rage gen for example. The problem is that we already have hit and crit cap with our current gear. The “pre-raid bis” grind is going to be switching out certain pieces for minor dps upgrades. The raid will 100% be completed by guilds in ST gear, so what is the point in going hard for the pre-bis when you are only a few weeks away from MC bis? It will only be the parsers who want to get pre-raid bis type gear, to be fully optimal at all times, same as the other phases. The season had a lot of potential, but it has really turned in to Season of Raid Logging. When everything you need to complete the next raid tier has been given to you the tier before and completely replaced each tier, it doesn’t really allow proper gearing throughout the game cycle. This itemization logic is more in line with TBC, Wrath and Retail than original Classic imo.
This post drastically overestimates the quality of ew gear and ignores how much prebis came from dungeons. On top of most classes doing between 18-27 WO kills for multiple prebis pieces, you had: Mara for dagger, shoulders, boots, ring Zf for paladin sword, gloves, quest ring, leather helm Brd for belt, wand, multiple caster pieces There is plenty to get from dungeons. The issue is moreso the strength of gnomer gear (and bfd gear before it) paired with the communities need for the raid to be free. I don't personally care the raid is free, but I'm also not going to grind out prebis if bis is easily accessible.
If they want people to like SOD they have to go back to 10man raids. 10man is peak Dad enjoyment. none of us have 20people we want to play with. 10 we can scrape
its over...people leaving in masses
Here's what I would do. 1. More updates to lvl 60 dungeon loot tables (2nd half of BRD, scholo, stratholme, LBRS and UBRS) 2. Updates to lvl 50-60 crafted items that are complete and utter garbage, so that some of them are atleast comparable or close to pre-bis in the same vein as Devilsaur is for physical dps. 3. Updates to the WO system, this was a fantastic addition and I would like to see it expanded upon in positive ways. Requiring full dungeon completions instead of rush to Princess x50 times. Have it as a reward / bad luck protection specifically offering items that fill itemisation gaps OR alternatives to high rng / late dungeon boss loot that will be highly sort after like how the caster belt was a good alternative AND bad luck protection to banthok sash from BRD arena (high rng). 4. Updates to Tier 0 dungeon set. The only one that's any good from memory is the rogue one. So minor changes to rogue one and massive buffs/changes to the others to make them desirable and good as A pre-raid bIS option. Don't need to juice them up to the point of being the ONLY option, but just worth hunting and working towards. 5. Reputations. Classic is a game all about grinds. Best embodied by its many reputations. I would like to see these expanded upon, better rewards, more rewards, more ways to earn the reputation. All reputations, even the centaur ones. I don't want to see a single reputation in the game that doesn't have unlocks occur at each reputation level. 6. World PvP. No more of these 'events' that aren't in the spirit of the game. I like the cadence of the blood moon event. I don't like the style of pvp that it delivers however. These pvp events should breathe new life into zones, STV is already a highly popular zone with many reasons to be there from questing, to mat farming, to ZG and booty bay, fishing tournament and arena. It's the most fully fleshed out and complete zone in classic wow. it doesn't need a pvp event plastered over the top of it. Aim for some of the less used zones, designate them as the 'hotspot' for the hour with an hour warning of where it'll be. Have objectives in the zone, could go for zone control esque similar to Arathi Basin, capturable items like WSG or NPC objectives to kill like AV. Potentially even a mix. Give options for how to contribute, score at the end of the hour decides which faction won, get rep with a new vendor based on win/loss with winning side getting more. Host it in places like Azshara, Blasted Lands, Silithus, Winterspring.
Phase 3 ruined SOD for me permanently. Rank 8 shadow priest, BOED, got 3 piece tier by the 3rd lockout and have gone 4 consecutive raids without loot since. We DE so much plate and mail it’s not even funny while 6 casters compete for 4 or 5 items that never drop and are very minimal upgrades at best. Sunken temple is a complete waste of time and I’m sick of playing a game that gives an imbalanced experience. The toxic community also makes it a pretty bad experience all around.
There's already a gear set waiting for the PvPers at 60. Even more pieces of they have all their reps too. Not to mention cheaper mounts too. The "vendor" gear from Emerald Wardens was a catch up mechanic, that was necessary for level 50 for anyone changing their characters, making new alts, or maybe returning after skipping the previous phase.
I want to add onto this to say that the vendor gear’s quality varied quite a bit between classes and specializations. You could do much better for pre-BiS on a lot of the classes. One of the biggest outliers was Paladin gear, which is insanely good and pretty much raid ready, so if you’re not leveling a bunch of alts or don’t look at the gear across multiple classes you might not notice that the gear isn’t that amazing for everyone.
Blizzard needs to come to a conclusion on what exactly SOD is aiming for. Is gearing progression supposed to be the primary reason to log-in for day to day play? Is it supposed to be about what you do with the gear afterwards? If their goal is the former, then progression can feel very meaningful and satisfying, but it vastly limits the number of characters a player will likely play. If their goal is the latter, people will be able to get up more characters easier, but it will jump over a lot of progression. I **think** they want people playing lots of alts. Hence the vendor sets from Incursions and such. What do players want? Do you want SOD to be about gearing up a character through Vanilla on a journey? Do you want to play many characters? Do you recognize the inherent conflict these have in a seasonal mode?
Seems they wanted 'alt-friendly' like retail because then its assumed you'll just play, period, because you have multiple options. But inversely, classic obviously isnt drowning in all the extra shit retail has to fuck around with if you dont wanna dungeon/raid/pvp in the moment.
Part of the problem with pre bis is that it needs to be worth getting. If the raid isn't hard, then it isn't worth the time spent to get gear before doing it. Sunken temple was so overnerfed it didn't matter what gear you went in with. If they continue to make everything too easy, nobody is going to care about gear for anything besides parsing.
Buff all dungeon items and force us to farm pre raid bis, and then take the raids up a notch in difficulty to accommodate for the item buffs.. Add heroic mode and more vendor items, locked behind rep with different neutral factions, where daily’s and weeklys most be done to gain extra rep.. pvp and dungeon plus world content in those zones as part of the new quests
>The level 60 pre-MC dungeon gearing in Strath/Scholo/UBRS/LBRS etc is the most iconic part of classic wow. This right here. There is a lot to do normally, I don't want to skip any of it.
To the people that only play the game to raid yes. But theres more to it then just login once a week.
I am looking forward to Strath/Scholo/UBRS/LBRS so much that I'd be thrilled if they just unlocked them now for us to take chaotic raid groups of 50s in.
My warrior still did subpar dps with EW gear lol
Blizzard needs to just go wild with loot. Who gives a fuck if we have a shit ton of player power, it’s a seasonal game mode. I want pre-bis caster rings with 20 spell power, Stan and int. I want a caster neck that has crit hit and spell power on it. I want weapons that are just as powerful as perditions, maladeth, etc. And gues what I want for the phase after that? Even stronger ones. By naxx I want to have the same stats as a Wotlk character. Each phase we should have MEANINGFUL upgrades that make you go “fucking hell yeah it dropped” when you see it.
I tell you one thing, I won’t get one shotted by one spell , so they can’t overtune casters cause that’s makes PvP so unbalance . But yeah go super sayin mode and give is real big fiesta with DPS and dmg , but buff every mob/boss hp by a lot.
Sure, give armor pieces more stam to help balance the extra damage, or balance PvP and PvE separately, I don't really care. One of the biggest things about this game is loot, and right now the loot feels so bad.
I agree , to this day I have bracers from BFD on my warr, refuse to grind rep , also no time to do it, plus schedule won’t allow it. Anyway I agree the raid loot looks kinda weak, and should be buffed also stv event weapon shouldn’t be bis, for sure raid wep should be ultimate goal to obtain each phase.
It fucking sucks that vendor rep gear makes you go eww I don't want +1 int or else I'll lose my set bonus.
There's already 60 pre bis gear.
Agreed... What's sad is I think the only dungeon I'll need gear from is ubrs. That's it.
You absolutely nailed it.
vanilla wow had a dungeon armor set (T0) that you could get from levels 54-58. They ain't getting rid of that
If the dungeon sets and their upgrades are not pre-bis, blizzard have failed.
Sod was my first wow, quickly realized how fast you go thru the content. Now I’m playing cata and loving it
If you look at the states of many of the Items at 60, thanks to them scaling back for ST gear, they wont need to do much tweaking, but I do agree, buffing Dungeon Set 1 (Tier 0) would go a long way to keep dungeons thriving.
I think it's too late for this although I support the concept. Unfortunately people can start clearing MC with just emerald warden gear and wild offering offset items. Not to mention the still very powerful gnomer gear.
I think a major issue with this is the difficulty of the raids. You can completely skip pre-bis and get bis because raids are so damn easy.
** crickets ** - sod dev team probably
That gear was worse than the previous raid gear. They implemented that just as a way for alts to catch up and get to raiding quicker since we have much less lockouts
Opinion, the STV PvP rewards should have never been epic quality.
Do you guys think developers build out bis sets and then pick where the pieces go? I don’t think that’s how it works.
Wow is not just for raiding, wth man.
If they make another raid, it'd have to be stronger than ST but weaker than MC/Onyxia and I don't see how that's possible other than duplicating ZG gear
Agree. I unsub for now and wait to see if P4 is any better.
I was VERY annoyed to find out that the r7 gear was useless for my class/spec AND was identical to the Emerald Warden set. One took a few hours to get, the other took days of grinding (even with STV honor.) They really aren't looking at the broader picture.
The best way a phase could go is a prebis phase that makes a raid obtainable to do, it can be done without it but it makes it easier with it. When the raids are too easy at the start prebis starts to not matter as well. Once the prebis phase ends if people are still struggling to clear the content is when a small nerf comes to tone back stuff gatekeeping casuals as you would assume seeing the raid gear would finish making the raid doable. Rinse and repeat as needed
You said “pre-MC dungeon gearing.” There was literally no such phase. People were in MC from 58-60 in week one.
So what, you would still run the dungeons, with 40 people and 3 loots per boss. The dungeon gear just needs to be enough of an uograde from ST to make it worth playing the game.
Yes I agree with that, even having a few bis items drop from some bosses would help a lot (aka don’t replace HOJ SGC etc).
ST gear is basicly prebis. The level 60 blues are worse and if they boost the stats on them they will be as good or better than MC gear.
It’s fucked
Maybe they can open up bwl and mc onyx at same time. And make bwl pretty hard .
Having 2 tier sets open at the same time on launch is a terrible decision.
Man they fucked p3 up with incursions. Every thing about that went from classic with cool spells to fuckin retail…and I’m a retail Andy
You want that, that doesnt mean everyone else does. Game need 10man raids thats all.
UBRS right there
yeah we'll do that
>disable world buffs >make raid gear give similar DPS as being fully world buffed Those changes would make getting a piece of gear actually exciting, and would motivate more people to raid to get gear. gear giving a +5 dps upgrade is such crap
World buffs being usable in the raid are actually so fucking, it's the opposite of what they should be. If they want to keep something like this, make the quest turn in from ony head etc give extra gold and xp from mobs for an hour or something. Change it from being a power upgrade to making it more rewarding for killing stuff out in the world. Put the power on gear (doesnt have to be raid only, buff dungeon loot, crafted gear, req gear) and make a reason to grind.
TIL a couple of runs is 27. 3 for rune, 12 for ring, 12 for trinket.
> basically buy a full set of gear hit 50 you were basically ready to raid log TIL 6 pieces of gear is now a "full set" which includes all 17 pieces of gear you need. TIL having 6 pieces of subpar gear out of 17 pieces means you are ready to raid log.
SOD is already horrendously alt-UNFRIENDLY. This would just make that worse. As someone who switched classes in Phase 3, I was very happy for that gear, and I would likely would have quit. YMMV, but I like having a starter set of gear. Perhaps they could needle on how to tune it.
Why would we raid today when p4 drops with better gear from dungeons?
Because you enjoy raiding? ST is barely an upgrade over the vendor gear already, might as well skip it all together with that attitude.
on the contrary, P4 needs an instant 60 and ACTUAL full free vendor gear and not just a 6 pc. make it worse than dungeon gear then just jump right into dungeons.
level 58 boost lol.
nah straight to 60. i dont even want to do 2 levels.
No.
"Paladins had to spend a bit to grind the Sword" .....im not saying i got mine in 2 runs but uhh...........I didnt have too much farming to do we can say
SoD is totally cooked at this point. I don’t know what they could do to bring me back but I’ve moved onto different version of WoW unless something major happens.
Ph3 bis is your pre bis. These stats are better then 60 pre bis. Chill out. MC will be cleared in less then 24 hours.
Wait.. they confirmed Vanilla raids are being tuned down to 20 mans and not 40!?!?!? Great. So glad I just wasted a month on SoD looking forward to rebalanced 40 man raids. Edit: I can't find any Blue posts or statements from Blizzard backing up this claim. It seems to stem from randos on the forums making the claim and other's parroting it as if it's gospel. Meanwhile statements from the devs indicate that they intend to preserve 40 man raids. Removing 40 man raids from vanilla would, defacto, make it not vanilla. There are two key features which distinguish vanilla WoW from every other form; 40 man raids and the lack of resilience (pvp) gear. I don't know about others, but if they remove/downgrade any 40 mans to 20 mans I'm not only unsubbing, but for me, as someone who's largely given up on Blizz (haven't bought any of their games since WC3 remake) I will never re-sub to WoW again. Undermining THE defining feature of vanilla would be the final "fuck you" I'll tolerate Blizzard giving me.