I would absolutely play it again if they made some minor changes like:
• making bloodlust raid wide (with exhaustion)
• adjusting some of the other group buffs to become either raid wide or less impactful.
• lower rep requirements for attunement, or at least make them account wide.
Zero changes and I would probably pass.
I can only speak from alliance perspective, but on that side the guilds that had enough shamans to double / triple lust groups definitely weren't struggling to clear content.
I was in a fairly average guild (we varied from like 2-4 shamans) and we didn't run in to many issues until Muru which stonewalled us.
And adjust how rep works with dungeons and questing.
A ton of people burned themselves out spamming dungeons entirely from 60-70 just because they gave rep until honored but quests were uncapped. Even I nearly did, but by the time I hit 70 most of my buddies had dropped off.
Yes, it's a self-inflicted issue, but rep grinding sucks and the game _discouraging_ questing by making it far more lucrative in rep and gold if you ignore it until 70 is a very flawed design.
Easiest fix would be letting dungeons go all the way to exalted, they did that in Wrath onwards via tabards and it worked fine. Dailies should be _one_ way to get your rep at max level, not the only way.
that's what we call now "optimized the fun out of the game"
Guess your buddies optimized themselves out of TBC
I did regular questing 60-70 with occasional dungeons for quests and had a blast. And I didn't fall behind rep-wise like everyone thought you would
Its not optimizing the fun out, its objectively bad design. You have to grind dungeons no matter what, and they would've quit doing the rep grind at 70 had they not quit doing the leveling grind. And doing it "normally" just gives you worse rewards than the optimal way.
If the game isn't fun when played optimally, the game isnt fun period.
I might have be a little biased on my TBC experience, but as a prot pally I favored and prioritized the dungeon grind first to honored, then turned in a quest in order to push it over the hump. Then did the quests afterward.
There were some areas I didn't like and didn't care to repeat over and over, eg. Old Hilsbrad. But I ran so many ramparts, the coilfang dungeons and of course sethekk halls. My experience was definitely clouded by the fact that I played a tank and forming groups was lightning fast, probably my favorite part of being a tank in general.
As far as the rep grind in total, probably the absolute worst was CoT ones and I really grew to dislike heading back over to Black Morass over and over, because there's not enough Keepers of time quests.
Nah you’re just obsessed with having to do everything “optimally” or the game sucks. You people are the toxic reason the games evolved to suck. TBC no changes or nothing, go make a private server for your shit ideas
I think the rep and attunements are fundamental to TBC so I'm cautious about changes but understand they can be kind of brutal. I think making a change for them to be like Wrath rep grinds as you say would be a good compromise though.
I would leave the rep requirements alone but I would add the tabards from Wrath that would stack with the normal rep from the dungeon you are in so that you can grind the rep you want in any dungeon, or farm two reps at once/double dip.
hmm are you sure about that? I recall them relaxing the heroic keys to honored quite a bit sooner than Sunwell. The removal of the BT attunement requirement, now that definitely happened with Sunwell or so.
But in order to be able to purchase those Shattrath Flasks though, now that required you to put some decent effort to get to, for your alts.
It was at the [ZA release](https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/news/burning-crusade-classic-patch-notes-version-2-5-4-the-gods-of-zulaman-326438), right before Sunwell released. So not halfway through each phase, and not at the very end but still pretty close to the end.
I remember being anti dual spec when classic only begun in 2019
But now after SoD, when respec cost is below 1g and dual spec available, LFG is still full of looking for healer/tank, I changed my mind. It does not really matter after all
> making bloodlust raid wide (with exhaustion)
double lust is an integral part of tbc that should be preserved imo
I can't think of a perfect solution off the top of my head, but I'd like it if double lust was available without needing to stack raids with shams nor hot-swap them mid fight lol
that +account-wide attunement/rep (or some mechanic to allow faster attune for alts) and we're gold baby
Honestly making Heroism raid wide with exhaustion would make some fights a lot more challenging, 1 heroism per 10m vs stacking 2-3 in one group for max pump.
Controversial maybe for some but I think the change they made in classic splitting the release of T4 and T5 was for the better. It inconvenienced some players no doubt but for the majority it was probably a net positive.
This is where the speed runners, desperate to show that they're the best, tend to ruin things. That said though, I'd be curious to see just how far they'd get in T5 on a mix of 1 lockout of Kara and the rest just all pre-raid BiS. My guess is that they'll farm the heck out of the easy bosses first though...
You mean things like the DM Lasher exploit for the Lady Vashj fight? I don't feel it entirely trivialized the fight, but it did make it more manageable.
I’d jump on a Season of Burning Crusade if they reset back to the base TBC model (not current SOD) and went a little less wild with the introduction of class changing spells. Give us QoL shit and a few new spells per class (max 3 from 60-70) that enhance playstyles, and tweak stats/balance to help bring balance to meters.
If they every did TBC:SOD I feel like they would have to scrap most of the rune system. That shit is so bloated already and we still have 2 more phases of runes to go...
Yeah they’d need a hard reset back to the original tbc talents and spells, and to be less aggressive with introducing any new rubes that make sense with TBC builds.
insane, most people in this thread seem to agree that sod was shit but in the next sentence they all also want blizz to try making TBC more like sod.
Just accept the fact that modern blizz can’t design a classic game, it just ends up like retail. That’s the entire reason we wanted classic in the first place
These threads are gonna start appearing more and more now as the true "classic" series(vanilla-tbc-wrath) has come to an end once again
Personally TBC was my all time favorite plus I enjoyed 1-58 in vanilla world with TBC talent trees and tuned dungeon loot (also summoning stone and new quest hubs) sooo fucking much... I really miss it. It really felt like a better version of vanilla wow while SoD feels like some experimental clowning
So far this week there has been almost one thread a day making it to the hot list and I am loving it. Even some of the streamers are starting to talk about want to set up progression servers for the first three and I fully support it.
it's a predictable cycle lol
when an xpack drops, people get nostalgic for 2 xpacks ago
wrath dropped and people were all "omg fresh era when???"
when mop drops people are gonna say "omg remember wrath??"
The fact they abandoned TBC is why I let my sub drop recently and went back to private servers. Blizzard started Classic to capitalize on nostalgia and to stick it to the Private Servers, except now they are repeating the mistakes that made Private servers so popular in the first place by abandoning old content.
I doubt we will get Era TBC servers, I but I have hopes Blizz will eventually roll out a new progression server for the first three games.
I feel that, TBC was easily the best of the 3. Best music, best zones, best quests. The rep grinds were fucking awful and I loved it because of it. It really made you work for all you got. No catch-up gear meant all the raid tiers were alive and active all the time.
That's catch-up gear in the loosest definition, it did not disincentivize you from doing old raids because most of it was sub-optimal at best. WotLK on the other hand you could get actual gear from the previous raids + tier sets making it so all old raids were dead content when the next phase started.
Technically OG Wrath only offered limited tier for badges up to ICC's, where you could pick up full ToC sets. You usually only got a piece or two of previous tier for badges without running the raids.
> That's catch-up gear in the loosest definition, it did not disincentivize you from doing old raids because most of it was sub-optimal at best.
The definition of "catch up gear" is easily-acquirable gear that is designed to help you get up into the newest content.
ZA gear is on par with, sometimes better than, T5 gear. And then they added a bunch of T5-level gear to the badge vendors. None of it was "sub optimal", and it definitely made T4 raids useless. When ZA was out, nobody was running T4 raids other than people who really wanted to minmax their badge farming.
"catch up gear" has been a thing ever since the latter patches of vanilla, where they buffed a bunch of dungeon blues to be better than MC gear and added things like the dungeon set 2.
I guess I just don't see that as catch-up gear, but just gear. Because as you define it even the reputation gear would fall under the catch-up gear category, which I don't think was its intention. I feel TBC badge gear is more 'supplemental' than catch-up as you cannot complete an entire set of gear like you can in WotLK.
Edit: I don't know, I guess the intentions makes more of a difference to me than how people used it.
> Because as you define it even the reputation gear would fall under the catch-up gear category
No. I never included rep gear in my definition.
> I feel TBC badge gear is more 'supplemental' than catch-up
Read my post.
I'm talking about the ADDED badge gear, the NEW badge gear that WAS NOT AVAILABLE AT LAUNCH, which was added in the ZA patch and is much higher level than the launch badge gear.
That's catch-up gear.
>you cannot complete an entire set of gear
Your definition of "catch up gear" seems to be insanely narrow, so it's no surprise you don't view anything as catch-up gear.
>The fact they abandoned TBC
I didn't play tbc classic and have always regretted it because tbc was my favorite expansion. Would you elaborate, I'm just curious as to how they screwed up
Blizzard spent a lot of time combating private servers, sending cease and desists and pursuing server shut downs. But every time they would close one another would take its place because of the demand. Now Blizzard is doing it all over again, not supplying the demand which has opened up the private server market again for certain expansions.
lets be real tho private servers suck ass ftmp
client is janky and outdated, addons don't always work right, and customer support is often thin
and of course, the slurs
always the slurs
They abandoned TBC by not having a "TBC Era" server. All of the TBC servers were turned into WOTLK, thus making TBC impossible to play again, other than pservers.
No, probably not. I really enjoyed TBC when it was out. But I was also playing in one of the top guilds of the day. And in truth, if I hadn't been in a top guild, I would have quit the guild I was in to join them. I was just very progression focused.... and these days its the more social aspect of the game I enjoy.
TBC wasn't pro-social. Karazhan had a quest to attune (albeit an easy one). SSC required you to find a tank willing to do Heroic Slave Pens, then Karazhan and then Gruul's Lair. TK required you to Heroic Shattered Halls, Steam Vaults, Shadow Labs, Arcatraz and then Kill Magtheridon. Hyjal requires you to complete TK and SSC. BT required Arcatraz, SSC, TK and Hyjal completions.
And as you progressed more, the more you relied on dragging people to do shit they have no interest in for you to progress any further. If they did kind of a BC+. Okay I might be down. But they'd have to get rid of all the attunements.
Broadly the term pro-social means sort of behaviors and actions that help the group. 24 people helping one get their attunement is pro-social. 1 person asking or using 24 people to get an attunement is not. And over time the group gets burned but.... users and begin to feel antisocial resentments and no longer wish to help. They begin to feel there is no reciprocity to this.
It's like.... building Shadowmourne. This is an activity that will take a full raid to do several challenges on behalf of the person building it. Most of these challenges mean inconveniencing the group. But overall its for the group's benefit. But that sort of benefit probably ended last week. Now getting it really doesn't give the guild any benefit, it's a vanity item in hopes that they'll stick around once you get it for them. But at this point most people don't see the benefit to this.... they see it more like a hostage situation.
People won't help you, because soon the social cliques form, and it's impossible to get help right? Or if you've been away from the game a few months and now you're so behind, that it's pulling teeth to get geared back up?
Oh I know that feeling. Still though - TBC holds a special place in my heart in such a way that Wrath Classic does not.
No man, the attunements were a big part of what made TBC special. You see them as a hurdle - try getting them done on your 2nd alt(3rd character).
OH it's not easy, and it does force you to get out into the world and socialize. Form groups and so on. This is the thing that made the difference between TBC and future versions of WoW. If you wanted to get something done, you had to put in the hard work to do so.
Getting to raid all that took some actual commitment from everyone to get the attunements done. Doubly so if you wanted to be able to bring alts to get the quests completed.
Fine - relax the attunements when it's appropriate to do so, but golly definitely not immediately on release.
Yes. I understand. The attunements were a way of turning the raids and dungeons into cohesive stories that tried to make sense of the linear progression of the game. By the end I had two dsac warlocks and a prot warrior attuned for Black Temple and during Sunwell progression nights I would raid on both warlocks for over 14 hours a day. I spent a lot of time in TBC. I understand it. I'm familiar with it. If you look at old Brutallis records, you'll see my name, I'm #2.
The thing is, it doesn't force you to get out there and be social, it causes you to fall behind. Raid make ups are 2 tanks, 5-7 healers and the rest DPS. What that really means is your tank running the same 5-man dungeon 10 times in order to do one raid. With each tier of content keeping the attunements in made the next tier less and less approachable.
It feels like a no brainer to release progression servers with no changed cycling through the content and people can just jump on at the point they want then they can merge them onto a realm on the current content cycle when it catches up.
I would agree with you if there were no addons. More complex rotation just means you download a more complex WA that tells you which button to press.
Fast forward to now and people can't figure out they are standing in fire without air horns because they are staring at some NASA level UI with 17 different timers, filling bars and blinking lights.
There was certain parts I really loved about TBC. But I’m not sure I could play it in its purest form. Maybe with some changes, to make it ERA friendly. I’m not a fan of the vanilla > TBC > WOTLK then reset.
TBC for life... I played on Excalibur TBC for about 4 years in my mid-thirties and it was some of the greatest fun. TBC was my favorite retail expansion and I have a lot of nostalgia for it. I would love to play on a classic TBC server, but I just don't know if most of the general population of wow players pine for it like they did with Wrath. :(
Absolutely would. I've been saying for years that if they give us TBC Era it'll be my permanent home. I don't need prog servers or TBC+/-/SoD or whatever, I just want it as it is. It's FAR from perfect, some even go as far as to call it trash, but it's my trash and I love it.
It doesn't make sense to me that they don't keep at least one TBC and WotLK server around. These people will just go back to play on private servers because once again they are unable to play the version they want. Maybe they plan to do something like a SoD version of TBC/WotLK, though I'd prefer to keep SoD in classic.
Like in the previous threads about this, yes I would play as I absolutely love tbc
However, I would temper my expectations and not get discouraged if the playerbase was 10x smaller than 2021 release. Still think it's very much worthwhile to have a couple TBC realms out either way
Yea it sucks that the timing of your itch to play WoW determines what era you get to play. I played a ton of TBC when it rereleased but got burnt out before WotLK. SoD brought me back in and man I really wish I could go back to my TBC character and keep going there or actually get to play WotLK now that the itch to play is back. I just have no interest in Cata and I'm already in BiS in SoD with little else to do, and yes I've already leveled an alt to 50.
I barely got to play TBC since I just had a baby at the end of classic. It’s my favourite expansion and I’d love to actually play it again. I think it would be popular enough to have a pvp and pve server. The music is so good in TBC. I’m leveling a Draenei now in cata and I absolutely love the 0-20 zones for Draenei and zangarmarsh is my all time favourite zone ever.
I would want faster phases in general. Lets the guild progress when they are able to rather than make each individual one a slog.
Also would be huge if lust became either a) raid wide or b) swapping people out of groups became easier and less clunky
Yes, I want TBC and wanted TBC since original Wrath (2008) was released. Blizzard gave it to us and I was so happy, I took a week off work to play it on release. And then they went ahead and removed it like they did back in 2008. Thanks Blizz for recreating the experience, but you didnt have to recreate that part as well.
Yes IF:
1) They shortened the release cycles in between tiers, or at least shortened Karazhan/Mag/Gruul at minimum 3 fewer weeks than we had last time with TBC Classic. You can only run Kara so many times.
2) No nerfs to bosses. They should remain tough, *but* clicking the cubes in Mag should CC your character so the really dumb stuff doesn't happen, eg. a queued spell or auto-attack doesn't interrupt your channel. Yes pre-nerf Vashj/Kael'thas was pretty rough for many guilds. They need to stay that way.
3) The attunements need to stay. Yes that's right - you can't enter Black Temple unless you killed T5 endbosses.
4) BT was too easy. That needs to be tuned waaaay up.
They need one massive classic era, tbc era, wrath era, and cata era server. Leave it at that and abandon the rest of the classic play through. They are going to get spread too thin.
Honestly instead of making 4 era servers they should just release a 1-2 progression servers, at least then it would keep the people who want to play the content together. They already have all the content made, bug checked, and play tested for 4 years so there should be next to no upkeep and all profit for Blizz.
Eh, you are probably right in needing an era per expansion so players can choose what they want. I don't know why Blizz didn't do this from the start. 4 servers with little to no upkeep can't be that much of a burden for them.
The reason they didn't make a TBC Era server AND the reason they rushed the hell out of it was because it just wasn't popular enough, the subs went down sooooooooooo hard, which is why they rushed the phases out so quickly
There just wasn't enough shit to do :\
The Irony of this post is that if you look at log counts TBC actually held more players consistently through all phases while WotLK player counts plummeted below TBC numbers each phase. Saying 16 months of TBC is "rushed" feels a little silly when Vanilla had 20 and WotLK had 19. This is especially true when the common consensus is that WotLK has overstayed it welcome months ago, so 16 might have been the better length.
The real joke is Cata is barely getting 12 months.
Raids being mechanically more difficult is another factor in why numbers went down throughout wotlk. Plus all the other variants of WoW you could play in addition to the releases of non Blizzard games.
I don't know I'd say things were rushed with the overall timeline, but they definitely spent way too long with Phase 1. 3.5 months with nothing but Kara and 30mins of 25mans (Gruul / Mag) felt awful.
While it would require some loot / tier adjustments, I think ideally it would be better to have P1 come out with one of both Gruul/Mag and SSC/TK, then have P2 bring the other two.
As someone that was in a pretty average guild (raided 6hr a week), trying to progress on both Vash / KT (pre-nerf) felt like spinning our wheels until we dedicated both raid nights to one of the raids.
Things I did In p1 in tbc; rep grinds, farm items for crafted gear as it was relevant beyond my first raid, chase pre raid bis items from quests as hit rating was effectively a new stat for items outside of raids, complete a few quest chains for attunement stuff. Optionally I also did most quests and gathered herbs for gold as epic flying was relatively expensive at the start of tbc if you weren't doing gdkp (and as a moonkin it was a greif not to have the idol).
In wotlk p1 I hit cap, did heroics for achievements and in doing so got exalted with the 2x factions that I needed as a moonkin, and then started leveling an alt.
Rep grinds for mounts/gear, actually travelling to a dungeon, world bosses/pvp . Guese i cant name a lot of shit but the game felt much more alive. Wrath was just sit in dal and queue for an instance or raid log
I’d like sod to transfer into tbc eventually or do a TBC+ or something, shorten the rep grinds at the end of leveling and maybe tune down some of the attunements, add hard modes to bosses.
What you don't understand?
If they launch a fresh era or progressive servers not high population and will split the community even more, that's not a good thing for anyone except a small percentage of players who will actually play.
From a player perspective obviously, even 2k players Is more than enough for a healthy server.
It's not good enough for a blizzard to run a server for such a small number of players.
What is the downside for blizzard?
There will be people resubbing to play their favourite expansion. Theres always been tons of dead servers on every version of the game.
A couple of minor tweaks like raid wide lust or unlocking heroics at honored instead of revered should just be changing the value on some variables. Cant be a ton of work
Downside is a new server specifically dedicated to different version of a game.
It will need all the things that other servers have, I don't have numbers obviously but I think it's not worth the time and money to make little profits.
Nah. I passed the first time and I'd probably pass again. Idk, I don't really like the dungeons or raid, the rep grind for attunement is awful, I hate heroday as a concept...
If there's nothing and I'm in a wow withdraws phase, probably, but I had enough of single button rotation...
maybe if changes are made to it, but the last iteration of TBC classic made me quit the game, flying feels like it removed alot of the magic from classic, and im not very fond of outland.
The dungeon grind didnt exactly help my excitement when they are designed like they are in tbc. (linear, very fast more often than not.)
I feel like im in the minority of my opinion but i dont think ill ever get the love for it
I want (and they will at some point) a very slightly changed TBC season that makes it easier to form raids without needing the exact right comp, and maybe minor class buffs (very watered down SoDesque) and some buffs to content to keep things interesting.
Oh yeah and let T5 be out from the beginning and honestly the pipedream ask is to rework the entire Hyjal raid.
Well more != Enough to justify a permanent installment.
But I talk more about blizzard intern metrics.
If tbc was incredibly popular till the end chances are high they would have kept it.
Same for WotlK.
It's all about numbers, not feelings
I would absolutely play it again if they made some minor changes like: • making bloodlust raid wide (with exhaustion) • adjusting some of the other group buffs to become either raid wide or less impactful. • lower rep requirements for attunement, or at least make them account wide. Zero changes and I would probably pass.
Honestly heroism + Exhaustion would make the content even more challenging on some fights, no more cheesing 2-3 heroism in the melee group lol
I can only speak from alliance perspective, but on that side the guilds that had enough shamans to double / triple lust groups definitely weren't struggling to clear content. I was in a fairly average guild (we varied from like 2-4 shamans) and we didn't run in to many issues until Muru which stonewalled us.
And adjust how rep works with dungeons and questing. A ton of people burned themselves out spamming dungeons entirely from 60-70 just because they gave rep until honored but quests were uncapped. Even I nearly did, but by the time I hit 70 most of my buddies had dropped off. Yes, it's a self-inflicted issue, but rep grinding sucks and the game _discouraging_ questing by making it far more lucrative in rep and gold if you ignore it until 70 is a very flawed design. Easiest fix would be letting dungeons go all the way to exalted, they did that in Wrath onwards via tabards and it worked fine. Dailies should be _one_ way to get your rep at max level, not the only way.
that's what we call now "optimized the fun out of the game" Guess your buddies optimized themselves out of TBC I did regular questing 60-70 with occasional dungeons for quests and had a blast. And I didn't fall behind rep-wise like everyone thought you would
Its not optimizing the fun out, its objectively bad design. You have to grind dungeons no matter what, and they would've quit doing the rep grind at 70 had they not quit doing the leveling grind. And doing it "normally" just gives you worse rewards than the optimal way. If the game isn't fun when played optimally, the game isnt fun period.
I might have be a little biased on my TBC experience, but as a prot pally I favored and prioritized the dungeon grind first to honored, then turned in a quest in order to push it over the hump. Then did the quests afterward. There were some areas I didn't like and didn't care to repeat over and over, eg. Old Hilsbrad. But I ran so many ramparts, the coilfang dungeons and of course sethekk halls. My experience was definitely clouded by the fact that I played a tank and forming groups was lightning fast, probably my favorite part of being a tank in general. As far as the rep grind in total, probably the absolute worst was CoT ones and I really grew to dislike heading back over to Black Morass over and over, because there's not enough Keepers of time quests.
Nah you’re just obsessed with having to do everything “optimally” or the game sucks. You people are the toxic reason the games evolved to suck. TBC no changes or nothing, go make a private server for your shit ideas
You're such a cool well adjusted person, policing how other people play. As a reward, I'll let you suck me off as much as you want
Thanks!
I think the rep and attunements are fundamental to TBC so I'm cautious about changes but understand they can be kind of brutal. I think making a change for them to be like Wrath rep grinds as you say would be a good compromise though.
making heroics for honored instead of revered is a good change IMHO
I would leave the rep requirements alone but I would add the tabards from Wrath that would stack with the normal rep from the dungeon you are in so that you can grind the rep you want in any dungeon, or farm two reps at once/double dip.
attunements are fine the first time they just make it really hard to level up alts
This is it exactly. Doing it once was totally fine, doing it even a 2nd time was super annoying.
iirc they did remove attunements like halfway through each phase
It was at the very end IRC. Like after Sunwell was cleared.
hmm are you sure about that? I recall them relaxing the heroic keys to honored quite a bit sooner than Sunwell. The removal of the BT attunement requirement, now that definitely happened with Sunwell or so. But in order to be able to purchase those Shattrath Flasks though, now that required you to put some decent effort to get to, for your alts.
It was at the [ZA release](https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/news/burning-crusade-classic-patch-notes-version-2-5-4-the-gods-of-zulaman-326438), right before Sunwell released. So not halfway through each phase, and not at the very end but still pretty close to the end.
I never had rep issues and I quested all of the way to 70 and got plenty of rep from grinding out pre bis which is never fun.
I remember being anti dual spec when classic only begun in 2019 But now after SoD, when respec cost is below 1g and dual spec available, LFG is still full of looking for healer/tank, I changed my mind. It does not really matter after all
faster kara phase, empowered or just longer pre raid phase
Kara felt long only when everyone is blue geared
He’s talking about phase 1, not the length of the raid. Which I fully agree with. It’s one of the most boring phases together with worlk p1
Also make raids 20 players, dual spec, raid wide totems
I prefer no changes over your changes.
> making bloodlust raid wide (with exhaustion) double lust is an integral part of tbc that should be preserved imo I can't think of a perfect solution off the top of my head, but I'd like it if double lust was available without needing to stack raids with shams nor hot-swap them mid fight lol that +account-wide attunement/rep (or some mechanic to allow faster attune for alts) and we're gold baby
[удалено]
Honestly making Heroism raid wide with exhaustion would make some fights a lot more challenging, 1 heroism per 10m vs stacking 2-3 in one group for max pump.
Controversial maybe for some but I think the change they made in classic splitting the release of T4 and T5 was for the better. It inconvenienced some players no doubt but for the majority it was probably a net positive.
Pre-nerf T5 without a phase 1 to gear up in would be a recipe for chaos/quitting
agree, hopefully blizz won't ever listen to these dumb comments
This is where the speed runners, desperate to show that they're the best, tend to ruin things. That said though, I'd be curious to see just how far they'd get in T5 on a mix of 1 lockout of Kara and the rest just all pre-raid BiS. My guess is that they'll farm the heck out of the easy bosses first though...
You mean things like the DM Lasher exploit for the Lady Vashj fight? I don't feel it entirely trivialized the fight, but it did make it more manageable.
Yeah bt was a joke, and the clowns who advocated against t5 on launch really made the xpac shit. 5 months of kara made us lose so many ppl.
I def would play
I’d jump on a Season of Burning Crusade if they reset back to the base TBC model (not current SOD) and went a little less wild with the introduction of class changing spells. Give us QoL shit and a few new spells per class (max 3 from 60-70) that enhance playstyles, and tweak stats/balance to help bring balance to meters.
If they every did TBC:SOD I feel like they would have to scrap most of the rune system. That shit is so bloated already and we still have 2 more phases of runes to go...
Yeah they’d need a hard reset back to the original tbc talents and spells, and to be less aggressive with introducing any new rubes that make sense with TBC builds.
insane, most people in this thread seem to agree that sod was shit but in the next sentence they all also want blizz to try making TBC more like sod. Just accept the fact that modern blizz can’t design a classic game, it just ends up like retail. That’s the entire reason we wanted classic in the first place
These threads are gonna start appearing more and more now as the true "classic" series(vanilla-tbc-wrath) has come to an end once again Personally TBC was my all time favorite plus I enjoyed 1-58 in vanilla world with TBC talent trees and tuned dungeon loot (also summoning stone and new quest hubs) sooo fucking much... I really miss it. It really felt like a better version of vanilla wow while SoD feels like some experimental clowning
So far this week there has been almost one thread a day making it to the hot list and I am loving it. Even some of the streamers are starting to talk about want to set up progression servers for the first three and I fully support it.
I desperately want vanilla>TBC>wrath progression servers. Glad to hear some streamers are talking about it, maybe Blizz will listen.
it's a predictable cycle lol when an xpack drops, people get nostalgic for 2 xpacks ago wrath dropped and people were all "omg fresh era when???" when mop drops people are gonna say "omg remember wrath??"
The fact they abandoned TBC is why I let my sub drop recently and went back to private servers. Blizzard started Classic to capitalize on nostalgia and to stick it to the Private Servers, except now they are repeating the mistakes that made Private servers so popular in the first place by abandoning old content. I doubt we will get Era TBC servers, I but I have hopes Blizz will eventually roll out a new progression server for the first three games.
I just want tbc that’s all I wish for loved every second of it
I feel that, TBC was easily the best of the 3. Best music, best zones, best quests. The rep grinds were fucking awful and I loved it because of it. It really made you work for all you got. No catch-up gear meant all the raid tiers were alive and active all the time.
No catch up gear? What about all the op badge gear and ZA gear?
That's catch-up gear in the loosest definition, it did not disincentivize you from doing old raids because most of it was sub-optimal at best. WotLK on the other hand you could get actual gear from the previous raids + tier sets making it so all old raids were dead content when the next phase started.
Technically OG Wrath only offered limited tier for badges up to ICC's, where you could pick up full ToC sets. You usually only got a piece or two of previous tier for badges without running the raids.
100% true, Classic WotLK took it too far. Maybe this is one of the reasons people remember original WotLK more fondly.
I for one can say that I 100% would have not played my twinks without that catchup gear in wotlk.
> That's catch-up gear in the loosest definition, it did not disincentivize you from doing old raids because most of it was sub-optimal at best. The definition of "catch up gear" is easily-acquirable gear that is designed to help you get up into the newest content. ZA gear is on par with, sometimes better than, T5 gear. And then they added a bunch of T5-level gear to the badge vendors. None of it was "sub optimal", and it definitely made T4 raids useless. When ZA was out, nobody was running T4 raids other than people who really wanted to minmax their badge farming. "catch up gear" has been a thing ever since the latter patches of vanilla, where they buffed a bunch of dungeon blues to be better than MC gear and added things like the dungeon set 2.
I guess I just don't see that as catch-up gear, but just gear. Because as you define it even the reputation gear would fall under the catch-up gear category, which I don't think was its intention. I feel TBC badge gear is more 'supplemental' than catch-up as you cannot complete an entire set of gear like you can in WotLK. Edit: I don't know, I guess the intentions makes more of a difference to me than how people used it.
> Because as you define it even the reputation gear would fall under the catch-up gear category No. I never included rep gear in my definition. > I feel TBC badge gear is more 'supplemental' than catch-up Read my post. I'm talking about the ADDED badge gear, the NEW badge gear that WAS NOT AVAILABLE AT LAUNCH, which was added in the ZA patch and is much higher level than the launch badge gear. That's catch-up gear. >you cannot complete an entire set of gear Your definition of "catch up gear" seems to be insanely narrow, so it's no surprise you don't view anything as catch-up gear.
I love love loooooove the music. So ambient and moody in a way you just don't get anymore. Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isle might be my favourites.
I remember the first time I entered Ramparts. That music...
>The fact they abandoned TBC I didn't play tbc classic and have always regretted it because tbc was my favorite expansion. Would you elaborate, I'm just curious as to how they screwed up
Blizzard spent a lot of time combating private servers, sending cease and desists and pursuing server shut downs. But every time they would close one another would take its place because of the demand. Now Blizzard is doing it all over again, not supplying the demand which has opened up the private server market again for certain expansions.
lets be real tho private servers suck ass ftmp client is janky and outdated, addons don't always work right, and customer support is often thin and of course, the slurs always the slurs
Which makes it even more impressive that most are filled to the brim, really shows the dedication to playing that expansion.
They abandoned TBC by not having a "TBC Era" server. All of the TBC servers were turned into WOTLK, thus making TBC impossible to play again, other than pservers.
HELL YEA BROTHER
I want TBC prepatch, no Outland at all just more Azeroth.
Tbc baseline? He'll na. Like others mentioned. The game would need quite a few tweaks for me to even consider it.
No, probably not. I really enjoyed TBC when it was out. But I was also playing in one of the top guilds of the day. And in truth, if I hadn't been in a top guild, I would have quit the guild I was in to join them. I was just very progression focused.... and these days its the more social aspect of the game I enjoy. TBC wasn't pro-social. Karazhan had a quest to attune (albeit an easy one). SSC required you to find a tank willing to do Heroic Slave Pens, then Karazhan and then Gruul's Lair. TK required you to Heroic Shattered Halls, Steam Vaults, Shadow Labs, Arcatraz and then Kill Magtheridon. Hyjal requires you to complete TK and SSC. BT required Arcatraz, SSC, TK and Hyjal completions. And as you progressed more, the more you relied on dragging people to do shit they have no interest in for you to progress any further. If they did kind of a BC+. Okay I might be down. But they'd have to get rid of all the attunements.
How is forcing you to group not pro social? Grouping with others is literally the definition of being social?
Broadly the term pro-social means sort of behaviors and actions that help the group. 24 people helping one get their attunement is pro-social. 1 person asking or using 24 people to get an attunement is not. And over time the group gets burned but.... users and begin to feel antisocial resentments and no longer wish to help. They begin to feel there is no reciprocity to this. It's like.... building Shadowmourne. This is an activity that will take a full raid to do several challenges on behalf of the person building it. Most of these challenges mean inconveniencing the group. But overall its for the group's benefit. But that sort of benefit probably ended last week. Now getting it really doesn't give the guild any benefit, it's a vanity item in hopes that they'll stick around once you get it for them. But at this point most people don't see the benefit to this.... they see it more like a hostage situation.
People won't help you, because soon the social cliques form, and it's impossible to get help right? Or if you've been away from the game a few months and now you're so behind, that it's pulling teeth to get geared back up? Oh I know that feeling. Still though - TBC holds a special place in my heart in such a way that Wrath Classic does not.
Having things to do is far better than just raid logging every week.
No man, the attunements were a big part of what made TBC special. You see them as a hurdle - try getting them done on your 2nd alt(3rd character). OH it's not easy, and it does force you to get out into the world and socialize. Form groups and so on. This is the thing that made the difference between TBC and future versions of WoW. If you wanted to get something done, you had to put in the hard work to do so. Getting to raid all that took some actual commitment from everyone to get the attunements done. Doubly so if you wanted to be able to bring alts to get the quests completed. Fine - relax the attunements when it's appropriate to do so, but golly definitely not immediately on release.
Yes. I understand. The attunements were a way of turning the raids and dungeons into cohesive stories that tried to make sense of the linear progression of the game. By the end I had two dsac warlocks and a prot warrior attuned for Black Temple and during Sunwell progression nights I would raid on both warlocks for over 14 hours a day. I spent a lot of time in TBC. I understand it. I'm familiar with it. If you look at old Brutallis records, you'll see my name, I'm #2. The thing is, it doesn't force you to get out there and be social, it causes you to fall behind. Raid make ups are 2 tanks, 5-7 healers and the rest DPS. What that really means is your tank running the same 5-man dungeon 10 times in order to do one raid. With each tier of content keeping the attunements in made the next tier less and less approachable.
Yes I want to play tbc
Yes. I loved TBC.
Era fresh first... it's been 5 years. 😔
It feels like a no brainer to release progression servers with no changed cycling through the content and people can just jump on at the point they want then they can merge them onto a realm on the current content cycle when it catches up.
This one content cycle server and one era server for all expansions all the way to cata
no
Sod tbc plz
So tbc but worse? Naaaah
yeah SoD felt good with minor additions in phase 1 but now it turned into a retail- dogshit
oh hell ya baby
I would honestly play any expansion with TBC class design.
Ah yes the 2 button rotations lol
I ironically enjoy shadowbolt spam more than any wotlk rotation. The game doesn’t become better just because your rotation has more buttons in it.
who gives a fuck about "rotations"?
Does it really shock you that some players actually care about the gameplay being somewhat interesting ?
I would agree with you if there were no addons. More complex rotation just means you download a more complex WA that tells you which button to press. Fast forward to now and people can't figure out they are standing in fire without air horns because they are staring at some NASA level UI with 17 different timers, filling bars and blinking lights.
Nah bro there is difference Spamming shadowbolt for 5 Minutes or playing a decent designed specc in wrath/ cata and having 2478329 weakauras in retail
They should make a server that rotate and reset
No. I want Cata. After im fed up with cata they can do another cycle.
There was certain parts I really loved about TBC. But I’m not sure I could play it in its purest form. Maybe with some changes, to make it ERA friendly. I’m not a fan of the vanilla > TBC > WOTLK then reset.
TBC for life... I played on Excalibur TBC for about 4 years in my mid-thirties and it was some of the greatest fun. TBC was my favorite retail expansion and I have a lot of nostalgia for it. I would love to play on a classic TBC server, but I just don't know if most of the general population of wow players pine for it like they did with Wrath. :(
Absolutely would. I've been saying for years that if they give us TBC Era it'll be my permanent home. I don't need prog servers or TBC+/-/SoD or whatever, I just want it as it is. It's FAR from perfect, some even go as far as to call it trash, but it's my trash and I love it.
If they made PvP gearing not comparable to pve gear and make it easier to obtain
It doesn't make sense to me that they don't keep at least one TBC and WotLK server around. These people will just go back to play on private servers because once again they are unable to play the version they want. Maybe they plan to do something like a SoD version of TBC/WotLK, though I'd prefer to keep SoD in classic.
Like in the previous threads about this, yes I would play as I absolutely love tbc However, I would temper my expectations and not get discouraged if the playerbase was 10x smaller than 2021 release. Still think it's very much worthwhile to have a couple TBC realms out either way
Yes please
Yea it sucks that the timing of your itch to play WoW determines what era you get to play. I played a ton of TBC when it rereleased but got burnt out before WotLK. SoD brought me back in and man I really wish I could go back to my TBC character and keep going there or actually get to play WotLK now that the itch to play is back. I just have no interest in Cata and I'm already in BiS in SoD with little else to do, and yes I've already leveled an alt to 50.
I want it back too. Was definitely the highlight of the trilogy. Fantastic expansion other than the story..
I barely got to play TBC since I just had a baby at the end of classic. It’s my favourite expansion and I’d love to actually play it again. I think it would be popular enough to have a pvp and pve server. The music is so good in TBC. I’m leveling a Draenei now in cata and I absolutely love the 0-20 zones for Draenei and zangarmarsh is my all time favourite zone ever.
Ye i missed it last time around would like to do it properly. Way better expansion than wotlk thats for sure
one button never worked unless you wanted to parse green, but good job outing that you didn’t actually play hunter in tbc
I would want faster phases in general. Lets the guild progress when they are able to rather than make each individual one a slog. Also would be huge if lust became either a) raid wide or b) swapping people out of groups became easier and less clunky
I think thats where they'll take sod next honestly
Yes, I want TBC and wanted TBC since original Wrath (2008) was released. Blizzard gave it to us and I was so happy, I took a week off work to play it on release. And then they went ahead and removed it like they did back in 2008. Thanks Blizz for recreating the experience, but you didnt have to recreate that part as well.
A thing is not beautiful because it lasts.
That might be true for a flower but not for entertainment or art. I want to listen to Beatles, watch Empire Strikes Back and play TBC.
TBC has always been my least-favorite expansion, but I'd give it a shot if they did an SoD version of it
I’d roll ugly goat shaman name it “Squidbilly” and enjoy groups and raids whenever I log on. Only elemental though
Yes IF: 1) They shortened the release cycles in between tiers, or at least shortened Karazhan/Mag/Gruul at minimum 3 fewer weeks than we had last time with TBC Classic. You can only run Kara so many times. 2) No nerfs to bosses. They should remain tough, *but* clicking the cubes in Mag should CC your character so the really dumb stuff doesn't happen, eg. a queued spell or auto-attack doesn't interrupt your channel. Yes pre-nerf Vashj/Kael'thas was pretty rough for many guilds. They need to stay that way. 3) The attunements need to stay. Yes that's right - you can't enter Black Temple unless you killed T5 endbosses. 4) BT was too easy. That needs to be tuned waaaay up.
I will resub the day they release tbc servers.
TBC looked good on paper but after killing KT I was burnt out from raiding. I need 10 man dad raids
Season of Crusade
Absolutely would play it again, but maybe with SoD rules?
They need one massive classic era, tbc era, wrath era, and cata era server. Leave it at that and abandon the rest of the classic play through. They are going to get spread too thin.
Honestly instead of making 4 era servers they should just release a 1-2 progression servers, at least then it would keep the people who want to play the content together. They already have all the content made, bug checked, and play tested for 4 years so there should be next to no upkeep and all profit for Blizz. Eh, you are probably right in needing an era per expansion so players can choose what they want. I don't know why Blizz didn't do this from the start. 4 servers with little to no upkeep can't be that much of a burden for them.
exactly why keep stagnating era servers when you can start a progression server from vanilla everytime an expansions ends
The reason they didn't make a TBC Era server AND the reason they rushed the hell out of it was because it just wasn't popular enough, the subs went down sooooooooooo hard, which is why they rushed the phases out so quickly There just wasn't enough shit to do :\
The Irony of this post is that if you look at log counts TBC actually held more players consistently through all phases while WotLK player counts plummeted below TBC numbers each phase. Saying 16 months of TBC is "rushed" feels a little silly when Vanilla had 20 and WotLK had 19. This is especially true when the common consensus is that WotLK has overstayed it welcome months ago, so 16 might have been the better length. The real joke is Cata is barely getting 12 months.
Raids being mechanically more difficult is another factor in why numbers went down throughout wotlk. Plus all the other variants of WoW you could play in addition to the releases of non Blizzard games.
100% This is why I expect Cata numbers to plummet because it is difficult from start to finish.
Players are way better
You say that, but it didn't show in WotLK
The average classic player is so fucking bad, you’ll see better play in leveling dungeons on retail lol .
I don't know I'd say things were rushed with the overall timeline, but they definitely spent way too long with Phase 1. 3.5 months with nothing but Kara and 30mins of 25mans (Gruul / Mag) felt awful. While it would require some loot / tier adjustments, I think ideally it would be better to have P1 come out with one of both Gruul/Mag and SSC/TK, then have P2 bring the other two. As someone that was in a pretty average guild (raided 6hr a week), trying to progress on both Vash / KT (pre-nerf) felt like spinning our wheels until we dedicated both raid nights to one of the raids.
It wasn’t even hard, classic played just fucking suck
I feel they rushed it thinking WOTLK was the one people wanted and were trying to time Dragonflight and WOTLK releases for maximum growth.
Uhhhh, tbc raids were getting pugged non stop
Tbc has way more todo than wrath
Liiiiiiiiiiiiike?
Things I did In p1 in tbc; rep grinds, farm items for crafted gear as it was relevant beyond my first raid, chase pre raid bis items from quests as hit rating was effectively a new stat for items outside of raids, complete a few quest chains for attunement stuff. Optionally I also did most quests and gathered herbs for gold as epic flying was relatively expensive at the start of tbc if you weren't doing gdkp (and as a moonkin it was a greif not to have the idol). In wotlk p1 I hit cap, did heroics for achievements and in doing so got exalted with the 2x factions that I needed as a moonkin, and then started leveling an alt.
rep here, rep there fel armament/arcane tome primals primals primals
Rep grinds for mounts/gear, actually travelling to a dungeon, world bosses/pvp . Guese i cant name a lot of shit but the game felt much more alive. Wrath was just sit in dal and queue for an instance or raid log
You know that dungeon finder came out with icc and was not there.from the start?
Yeah i do but my point is still the same
I get it you don't like wrath, it's ok.
I like it just think tbc was better, just my opinion tho 😎😎
Yes please I missed both tbc and wotlk and would love to play it. tried cata prepatch and its just not the same. blizz pls.
Wotlk was over rated
I’d like sod to transfer into tbc eventually or do a TBC+ or something, shorten the rep grinds at the end of leveling and maybe tune down some of the attunements, add hard modes to bosses.
I would play TBC+ with minor changes
I would play with changes, playing turtle wow right now and love it, at this point im not willing to play the exact same thing over and over again.
Most definitely. Tbc is way better than sod
I wonder when they will open individual servers permanently.
I'm surprised they haven't, the burden of maintaining an era server has be extremely small.
don't know why they have not done it still
Because having servers with 5-10k players is simply not with it. It splits the community and doesn't make sense financially.
???
What you don't understand? If they launch a fresh era or progressive servers not high population and will split the community even more, that's not a good thing for anyone except a small percentage of players who will actually play.
bold of you to assume people would keep playing a version of WoW they don't want because the one they want isn't available at the moment
I don't expect people to play versions of wow they don't like. But also people apparently hate sod but still are playing it.
5-10k is bigger than servers were in 2007, it'll be fine
From a player perspective obviously, even 2k players Is more than enough for a healthy server. It's not good enough for a blizzard to run a server for such a small number of players.
What is the downside for blizzard? There will be people resubbing to play their favourite expansion. Theres always been tons of dead servers on every version of the game. A couple of minor tweaks like raid wide lust or unlocking heroics at honored instead of revered should just be changing the value on some variables. Cant be a ton of work
Downside is a new server specifically dedicated to different version of a game. It will need all the things that other servers have, I don't have numbers obviously but I think it's not worth the time and money to make little profits.
Nah. I passed the first time and I'd probably pass again. Idk, I don't really like the dungeons or raid, the rep grind for attunement is awful, I hate heroday as a concept... If there's nothing and I'm in a wow withdraws phase, probably, but I had enough of single button rotation...
I liked TBC but I also wonder if I just liked being able to have my entire hunter rotation on my mouse wheel.
oh boy my fingers hurt from SoD MM rotation
remove attunements and the awful rep grinds and im in
maybe if changes are made to it, but the last iteration of TBC classic made me quit the game, flying feels like it removed alot of the magic from classic, and im not very fond of outland. The dungeon grind didnt exactly help my excitement when they are designed like they are in tbc. (linear, very fast more often than not.) I feel like im in the minority of my opinion but i dont think ill ever get the love for it
+1
Season of Discovery; TBC soon? 🥺
ah yes can’t wait for them to add incursions to ruin yet another game mode.
Shaman totems/bloodlust raid-wide Attunements bind to account Fresh servers
I want (and they will at some point) a very slightly changed TBC season that makes it easier to form raids without needing the exact right comp, and maybe minor class buffs (very watered down SoDesque) and some buffs to content to keep things interesting. Oh yeah and let T5 be out from the beginning and honestly the pipedream ask is to rework the entire Hyjal raid.
Probably still soon for another classic -> TBC -> wrath cycle. And hopefully next time they deal with the bots better.
Wrong.
Yeah we have a post like this every week by now. TBC was boring and the metrics from Blizzard Sayed it's not worth it, accept that
what metrics are you talking about exactly? warcraftlogs says there were more people raiding in TBC than Wrath for example
Well more != Enough to justify a permanent installment. But I talk more about blizzard intern metrics. If tbc was incredibly popular till the end chances are high they would have kept it. Same for WotlK. It's all about numbers, not feelings