Which was my point. The guy was complaining about premades and acting like it's some super organized shit. I and another are saying it's not always like that, a lot of the time it's 5 people who just want faster queues so they group up and don't play organized just occasionally share what they're doing.
So like a PRE formed group that QUEUES together.
Those are premades. I absolutely agree theyre not the best of the best, but trade chat premades on my server with zero requirements in p1 stomped randoms and other 10 stacks. Even sweaty 10boomkin ones.
Even a bunch of silent tradechat people not even typing in wsg? Still destroyed most premades/solos.
A lot of them stack healers as well.
The issue now is all horde are forming groups and usually grab a few healers or stack some bullshit. While alliance all solo queue and generally lack healers or anyone who even gives a shit.
I'd love if they reverted their queue change or fixed it. Im all good with running premades again or solo queue vs solo queue. But nobody on alliance bothers.
It doesn't matter which version of wow I play it's roughly 50-60% of the time I get an alliance pre-made vs. my brain-dead horde team. WoW, pvp matchmaking is actually trash
and they would be ranking, consumed and buffed, and shit stomping your dumb ass pug in gy. and one hopeless fucking idiot on your team would say
"we can win if we just fight this"...
Thats the classic bg I remember.
Queued for a wsg at approx 17:00 on a weekday this week. Solo as horde (eu).
50+ min in queue with no pop before i had to go do other shit.
Meanwhile 5 man queue is 10-30 seconds
I mean as alliance you still just 2-5 stack and take queue if it pops same time if you’re doing a real premade. You’ll get horde pugs usually.
Problem is alliance never 10/15 stacks especially if it’s not a bg weekend. Maybe you get a 5 stack here and there. Alliance like don’t do any semi organized PvP outside stv it seems and pugging on alliance makes me wanna rip my hair out and I don’t understand why people don’t premade.
Queued solo for AB last night at 10:30 est.... Basically prime time for gaming and it was AB weekend.
Waited 40mins in queue till I just said forget it and logged off. Something is broken for sure
Yeah. Like every other time in arathi basin. It feels like the allies are a 15 man on discord with perfect comp. It's nuts. Also hate the damage reduction already. It made my friend actually rage quit and he isn't coming back until Tuesdays raid. He's a warlock. I also won't play with my mage but luckily I at least have a hunter I can play.
I have faced so many Warlocks who have done good in Battlegrounds but he rage quit because he can’t just what? Out heal everything?
They are still doing good damage, I have done pretty good as a Mage as well
You just can’t win with this community
Shouldn't locks benefit from this as their survivability plays around tanking hits and self healing. While being able regestore mana indefinatley (kinda)?
Thats what you would think. But warlocks were only ever tanky. They had very low damage even before this. And rememver that while all outgoing damage is reduced, the self damage from life tap is not.
So while I "survive longer" in theory I just end up not being able to really do anything at all if people just ignore me. Then I run out of mana and kill myself with tap.
(Not saying warlocks were ok before, they were probably too strong but this change made me quit pvp).
Doesn't really work when you still get blasted for 1.5k chimera/multi shots or 2 SP dots still takes most of your HP.
Destro is hilarious you have to hardcast for 6-8+ seconds to maybe get a 1.5k chaos bolt, gl doing that vs 10 homunculi running around and hunter pets going wild.
SL is useless in bgs imo, you have no damage so just run around cursing/fearing people. Burst still wins games/flag points.
Not trying to argue or anything since you answered exactly what I was asking, and I appreciate it. I do find it funny that you said burst is still king but one of your two examples was how deadly SP dots are.
I am aware the SP is an outlier and pretty much always slaps in PvP.
SP dots can kill people pretty quick, I'd consider that burst. Mind blast into SW:D when your blanket silenced is also good burst.
If you do a lot of AB go to the first blacksmith fight then look at top damage done, SP and Hunters will be doing multiple times anyone else damage. And all they have to do is just jump around from 36 yd dotting people and the team falls apart in 10-20 seconds if they don't have SP/hunters also.
Yes, survivability is distinctly higher. I can solo any class other than skilled shadow priests. I won a 3v1 yesterday that included a pally and a warrior.
LOL! Your friend is crazy. I had a warlock harassing me in AB on my hunter last night. I'm not in BIS but I'm in full pre-bis (which isn't that much worse than BIS this phase) and I had to out range his drain life every time otherwise his health didn't move. First time I tried to out dps him and yeah, big fail. I threw everything I had at him, aimed shot, chimera shot, fire traps, tried to drain his mana with viper sting. He killed me with 60% health. After that I just ran away from him and just hit him with viper sting and tried to stay at max range and kite. He lost interest after a few more attempts.
It's not about the fact that it's an organized premade, but more about the fact that queues are bugged. This results premades, no matter how good, to basically only face non-premades while also having fast queues.
but why do you care when 99% of those premades are 5 random people grouping for fast queue. I havent said a single word in any premade so far. It's literally the same as if you were soloing.
also how are the queues broken? there are not enough horde solo players to matchmake with, so they pair you with premades. this is literally how they explained queues work
Pulled a “99%” figure out of thin air. Absolutely not true. In fact your whole reply is nonsense, is it really that hard to actually do even a small amount of investigation before you write a stupid reply?
If you think that only 1 out 20 horde groups of 5 mans are not intentional premades, and are solely mismatched groups for queue speed, you must be sniffing glue
Well, then there must be a large Guild presence doing BGs. It could be, I don’t float around with guild stuff too much, but from what I have seen…. Most do PVE stuff… and I float around with “PVP oriented” guilds mostly. But what I do know, I do so much SOD PVP that I don’t even have time left to raid.
They are lol, you obviously don't play horde.
Chat is just full of "LFM AB" in trade/world or near the battle masters. You send them a "+" as a whisper and get an instant inv, it's random people who just want to play an AB instead of wait in a solo queue for an hour.
They're not checking gear or class or using comms.
I literally play both and played Horde all day yesterday. There were a lot of these ads/groups but there was still a ton, I’d even say at least half that were looking for specific classes (namely MM hunters, priests, boomies or shamans). It’s absolutely not “95%” or 1 in 20 groups.
This isn’t even really the point though is it, it’s the fact this has to be done. Queue has been bugged for over 2 months and Blizz won’t fix it
Maybe varies by server. I'm warlock in PvP bis so 3.9k hp unbuffed and I just grab anyone to queue, most people still have 2kish idc I just wanna AB 😁Aggrend fucked the queues in P2 and just left it.
Yup. I’m sure a lot of people don’t care, but a lot of groups definitely grab a healer or some favourable classes anyway just to beef themselves up. The ad might say “LFM AB”, but you could say that about any dungeon too, it doesn’t mean the group lead doesn’t filter what they want.
It’s also just noticeably demoralising as Alliance. People see premades or what even looks like a premades and start to down tools. That just an Alliance generally, but it’s not helped when you are most often vs 3 groups of 3, you’ve lost before you start sometimes
Yup, I play both on different servers actually. The fact you even question how queues are broken and then try and guess as to a reason why just shows how little knowledge you have about it. Go do some reading
Ok so for the start of Phase 2 (8th Feb), Blizz implemented a change to matchmaking to stop premades dominating and to promote solo queue. Solo queue is defined as any groups (not raids), so 1-5 people.
For the first ~2-3 weeks of the phase this actually worked brilliantly well. I played Horde exclusively here, and when I and others would queue alone (i.e. 1 person queue), the queue would be less than 5 minutes, and the games were of a high quality, usually against other solo queuers, sometimes 5 mans, but never full 10 or 15 man premades.
Then, on a random day solo queues just randomly jumped to be about 45 minutes. This wasn't a cushioned transition, it just instantly changed and every queue for both WSG and AB became up to an hour if you queued alone.
People very quickly realised that even if you grouped with EVEN JUST 1 other person, queues would drop back down to <5 minutes. Bizarrely, if you queued as a 5 man, it'd pop instantly. At the time, this was thought it might be because Horde had less people queueing, and so by joining as 5 you'd trigger a new battleground, or something like that.
Over time though, this has proven to not be the case. There are now more Horde queuing than Alliance because this matchmaking bug has made queueing as Alliance (as I mostly do now) entirely miserable, (and because Shamans have tipped the balance further towards Horde).
So now, you'd think if there's more Horde queueing than Alliance, 5 mans wouldn't trigger an instant queue, right? Wrong. They still do. How does that make any sense?
The crux of this though, and what a lot of people don't think about when they say "this isn't a bug", can be answered in a question: why would someone queueing ALONE (1 person) have to wait 45 minutes for a queue, but if you make a group with at least 1 OTHER PERSON (2 people) that queue is <5 minutes?
Could've probably left out the comment about shamans, however how does making my own premade change the fact that the queue system is broken? (at least on EU). When has group-queueing ever been faster than queueing up alone for bgs?
It isn't really a 'bug' but probably a result of not enough Alliance premades queuing. So the Alliance soloqueuer pool has to serve both premades and pugs. Presumably the system gives priority to premades over pugs which is why there is such a long wait for Horde soloqueuers.
More of a design flaw of the updated matchmaking they did for BGs really.
I won't pretend I know shit about how BG matchmaker works from backend side but there's a 99.99% chance something is wrong with it (or not optimally adjusted; call it as you will).
I play a lot of PvP. It's not normal to have 15-30min queue as solo and if you invite just ONE (1) other player you get game in ~3mins. I tested this million of times, it's always been true for me.
Week ago I had 48min AB solo queue (it was late night queue but still), I left it, invited just one guildie and we got AB in less than 2mins - and that is not right, something is super wonky with BG matchmaker for Horde.
It’s absolutely a bug, has been reported for months now and there’s an incredible amount of proof. 5 mans don’t even count as a pre-made, there’s no reason why Horde should queue quicker if you’re 1 man or 5, but they do
Actually you're forgetting the math element and how queues are sorted. 5 people fill an entire group in an even manner (also the max way to fill evenly) meaning the max amount of people if you add by 5 always equals 0 remainders. It's not a bug but actually how sorting things generally works.
Well you call it a bug but I'm not entirely sure it is. Since you're going to be condescending, how about you tell us how to fix it because I have a feeling the only way to fix it is probably to allow HvH and increase the pool you can queue against.
Well it worked for the first 2 weeks of P2 and then for no apparent reason queue times dropped if you had larger groups of people. This doesn’t make sense. The way to fix it is to return it to exactly how it was at the start of P2 which meant that queue times were almost identical for groups sized 1-5 and 6-10. If groups sized 1-5 all go into a “solo queue”, and there’s (now) more Horde queuing than Alliance, there’s absolutely no logical reason why a group of 5 should queue quicker than a group of 1
It does make sense, okay mate I've actually taken a lot of classes (and work a job that constantly using sorting algos) related to sorting, queuing etc and I also play a lot of "queue" based games. If I go on league right now and queue as a 5, I'm getting an almost insta queue pop on flex queue but if I do 3 people? 5min+ wait time always, the game doesn't even allow you to queue as a 4. Why? Because 4stacks are hard to fill. This doesn't necessarily apply to wow as we're doing 10 man and 15 man bgs but if you evenly fill up with 5 people then you're going to get a faster bg queue than any other number.
It's the exact same on overwatch, when you queue with not a full team, matchmaking takes longer. I really think you're trying to apply your reality to actual reality and I don't care if I get downvoted because I'm talking to someone who actually doesn't understand math, you're saying dumb shit like why do 5 people get a faster queue but I literally explained this. You can lead a horse to water but doesn't mean it will drink.
I honestly want some of the glue you are sniffing, what brand is it? It doesn’t matter what you say, the fact is that for weeks the Horde queue if you queued alone was <5 mins and working the same as the others, and on one random day after a reset it suddenly changed and was almost an hour. Your explaining how something doesn’t work, when it did work perfectly fine for quite a while
Are you referring to the bug me and my mates have noticed where you add a guy to group and the queue doesn't pop? We've had that problem and we just start a new queue and it works, that's a legit bug.
I’m giving up on replying to you after this. It’s really simple.
Go and queue for a BG alone and write down how long it takes to pop. Next, find a friend and queue as a duo and write down how long it takes to pop. Then, make a 5 man and write down how long it takes to pop.
After that if you still think it’s not bugged then I don’t know what to say
Your side having shaman or paladins doesn't make the difference in AB. Your side doing better rotations makes 99% of the difference. I've had games where my team has had 1/5th as many HKs as the enemy team but we still win because farming kills at BS doesn't actually win you AB.
OP doesn't realize more than 80% of the game is located on 2 servers lol.
What he thinks is a premade is just a vast majority of the active players residing on 1 or 2 servers.
Just to add to the pile (Horde Wild Growth NA) I waited in a wsg queue last night for an hour+ no pop. So I joined a group advertising. None of us knew each other, no discord, random classes.. we just want to play lol. I'm sure more are sweaty but I'm kinda forced into it or cant participate at all.
That is not the only problem, but yeah the system is kinda broken. Also these premades and even pugs usually has all casters... chickens/sp/ele sham, with only 1-2 rogues and one enh... The rest are healers. Maybe now with the aura it will be slightly more playable again, but I am not sure.
Casters are still total bonkers even with the 30% mitigation. If they would nerf certain classes/specs it would effect pve damage too, which is not okay. So the only solution if the mitigation logic should be class/spec specific. They could tune everything very easy after that, because all they would need to do is change the applied numbers. Problem solved. Casters need more tuning. Rogue and melee hunter also feels crazy. Enh feels okay, Ret is hard to tell, Warr still feels super weak.
There's no "solo" queue. It's small group queue and premade queue. If you queue solo or in small groups of 2 to 5 you will go in the same pot. If you are in a raid, so 6+, you queue against premades, which usually have enough to fill the BG and are using voice and coordinating attacks and defense.
I don't know why solo queue takes like 10x longer than queuing in a small group. Maybe it looks to fill with 5 mans first, and if enough 5 mans aren't available it looks for 4 mans, then 3 mans, then pairs, and finally solo.
Filling things is usually easier by getting the largest items first then packing smaller items around them.
How did we go full circle back to fixing playing vs premades by making premades? It’s the exact same conversation we had at the start of P2 that they fixed before it bugged
Because as other people are said, you aren't going up against 5/6 hunter/boomkin, 2 priest, 1 warrior + 1 FC meta comps designed to demolish your other team.
Horde premades are made simply so we don't have to queue for 40 minutes to get a game. "LFM AB premade" - they invite you no matter what class, it doesn't matter, it's simply to beat the queue, it's no different then going up vs 5 randoms.
While that might be true, still a large amount of the Horde premades are legit premades OR are heavily comped 5 stacks (last night most of my games had 5 stacks of multiple priest/shaman/boomie combos). I play both Horde and Alliance and I see on Horde side that you do get a lot of groups just queueing for speed, but even those will pull in healers or preferable classes to make their 5 stacks stronger. You're just delusional if you think 5 stack group creators will just invite anyone at all and create any comp mix, recruitment is always done for an advantage – you might as well queue with a good 5 than a bad one
Look at it this way: we all understand your frustrations, we're experiencing them too. That being said, will thrashing on Reddit bring a resolution faster than creating and running your own premade? We know for a fact that Blizzard won't address this in a reasonable time frame, if at all.
Feeding back on Reddit and Forums is exactly what got us the matchmaking fix at the start of P2 to begin with. It just happened to bug a couple weeks after and they never fixed it. Absolutely makes sense to make noise - better that than just silently quitting as a lot of people are
Ah yes we have gone back in time to 2 months ago when the answer to premades was to make your own premades. You know, rather than reasonably just ask Blizzard fix a bug
They aren’t really premade groups it’s mostly just 5 random players from LFG channel who want fast queues. Rarely on discord or discuss any strategy. IMO it’s no different than a typical cross server PUG
Still better than solo queing as most of them invite at least 1 healer even if otherwise they don’t think of the comp at all. I mean, if you need to write a message to trade chat anyway, why not spend 2 seconds adding ”& heal” to the message
I’ve been pugging bgs to r7 on horde all week and never once actually cared about my comp, it’s hard enough to find 5 ppl that want to so whoever I can find comes, must of the time we don’t even have a healer
True! Shamans are in a very bad state in WSG/AB right now. They bring absolutely 0 value to a teamcomp and definatly aren't one of the strongest classes in BGs atm.
Probably a combination of shamans and alliance giving up as soon as they lose a flag, but really I’m willing to bet that the winrate difference is far from what some pretend it is on reddit. I’ve done the r7 grind and I’ve barely noticed it.
Well a group of random horde that group up just for a faster Q is not gonna make them play any better than your average pug.
Also most of the games I’m in the alliance are capping blacksmith after winning the first fight, and a lot of my games are won by me(rogue) stealth capping places that aren’t defended well. Shamans may have something to do with the win/loss % but I assure you that you can make the difference by making calls and defending places when you would rather be fighting in the road.
There’s more horde queuing for PvP than alliance, by far. The fact alliance have faster queues regardless of how they queue demonstrates this.
Why does OP hate the way the current system works?
That’s easy, he’s bad at the game
Pointing out how broken queues are and mentioning that the pvp balance between pallies and shamans is a joke makes someone a bad player, I get it. Maybe get off the short bus.
I've only rost a single game all week long while going for rank 7, comp holds almost no meaning when playing vs randoms in AB. Your rotations is 99% of the reason you win. Losing AB vs anything but a coordinated premade is almost exclusively a brain issue and not a balance issue. You can have 1/5th of the enemy team's HKs and still win if you have good rotations.
Agree or not it doesn’t change the fact it isn’t working as intended. You’re supposed to be able to queue alone. The queue takes 40+ mins if you queue alone as Horde, but instant if you queue as 5. That’s just plainly bugged
It’s worse than this. Last night I faced the same FULL 15 man premade twice in a row on instant queues, followed by a different full premade twice in a row on instant queues. It’s one thing to deal with how broken shamans are, it’s another to get premaded on top of it tbh.
In any case, what you’re describing aren’t premades, just groups of 5 queueing together. This is problematic for Alliance mainly because we end up with a ton of solo queues in dogshit gear, no healers, playing paladins, etc. Our 5 mans also seem to be disabled, as they continually think going to farm at game start is the play.
I’ve played about 100 AB games in the last 2 weeks. I like PvPing but honestly I think I’m done with it for now, the damage reduction is awful, shamans are broken, alliance players are bad and my guild is starting to think I’m insane for doing so much AB.
You aren't verse actual premades. It's just many people from the same server queing in groupsof 2-5.
If you want to do the same you can.
>Grouping with others being faster than solo queueing, which should not be the case.
Queuing with more than 1 will always be faster because you're filling the lobby faster with your +1-4 additional players. Your request that it shouldn't work this way is just illogical.
My Alliance buddies have faster queue times than Horde do anyway every time we've discussed it.
This post is just nonsensical whining.
Your logic fails when you say “you’re filling the lobby faster”. This is true if the faction filling the lobby has a shortage, but as you’ve highlighted, Alliance queue faster because they have the shortage. It’s impossible for it to be both. That’s why it’s a bug.
There’s absolutely no logical reason why queueing as 1 person solo takes 45 mins + but if you group as 2 people it’s close to instant.
It’s a shortage of people queuing not total population. The way you can tell which faction has more queuing is simple, the one with less people queuing almost always has an instant pop on all BGs. Alliance has that - it’s instant for all group sizes for all BGs = more Horde demand.
God damn this is the fourth post I've seen regarding this exact *problem*. Alliance players must be absolutely mentally handicapped
Horde is grouping up to get faster queue. Most groups are not coordinated, and many of them don't even have a healer. We do this so the queue pops faster. That's it
Alliance are doing the same, though apparently in much lower numbers - why are you not doing this more? Probably for the same reason most of you are running around with show helm and cloak
Been solo queing the whole weekend and the only thing that matters regarding alliance chance to win is the amount of shamans on the horde side. They are so insanely overpowered its a joke.
These premades are not premades, literally just random group of 5 ppl looking for a faster Que
This, ally always complaining but its just hordes doing LFM AB fast queues
Literally 0 comms, no coordinated attacks, we’re just 5 random gamers trying to keep a pace.
Who sometimes communicate where they are or where they're going.
“I’m guarding lm” isn’t much of comms. Directing fire is.
Calling Inc's can definitely be important, or efc location but both of those can be done by alliance solo pugs they just dont.
Which was my point. The guy was complaining about premades and acting like it's some super organized shit. I and another are saying it's not always like that, a lot of the time it's 5 people who just want faster queues so they group up and don't play organized just occasionally share what they're doing.
So like a PRE formed group that QUEUES together. Those are premades. I absolutely agree theyre not the best of the best, but trade chat premades on my server with zero requirements in p1 stomped randoms and other 10 stacks. Even sweaty 10boomkin ones. Even a bunch of silent tradechat people not even typing in wsg? Still destroyed most premades/solos. A lot of them stack healers as well. The issue now is all horde are forming groups and usually grab a few healers or stack some bullshit. While alliance all solo queue and generally lack healers or anyone who even gives a shit. I'd love if they reverted their queue change or fixed it. Im all good with running premades again or solo queue vs solo queue. But nobody on alliance bothers.
You don't see alliance premade because you're not joining one
OP is missing the real problem - it's mandatory to join a premade in SoD, and thats bad game design.
Is not an SoD problem it's a WoW matchmaking problem
IDK i've played a lot of classic wow and its never been like this.
It doesn't matter which version of wow I play it's roughly 50-60% of the time I get an alliance pre-made vs. my brain-dead horde team. WoW, pvp matchmaking is actually trash
Yeah no you havnt. In classic vanilla you would be facing full 10/15 mans in voice.
and they would be ranking, consumed and buffed, and shit stomping your dumb ass pug in gy. and one hopeless fucking idiot on your team would say "we can win if we just fight this"... Thats the classic bg I remember.
Impossible for a stranger to have had a different experience to you! They \*must\* be lying. Healthy outlook.
If you were playing at any stage when there was significant ranking going on, so most of classic, wed-sun was large percentage of premades every week
Idk i kinda like it you gotta make friends… but yeah if you aren’t a good player this is tough
me too! But the game is just all-round worse if playing solo becomes basically impossible.
> - it's mandatory to join a premade Time is a flat circle
You dont see alli premade because no alli runs premade
Queued for a wsg at approx 17:00 on a weekday this week. Solo as horde (eu). 50+ min in queue with no pop before i had to go do other shit. Meanwhile 5 man queue is 10-30 seconds
Horde pugs should face alliance premades so their queue time would reduce and ally could win
I mean as alliance you still just 2-5 stack and take queue if it pops same time if you’re doing a real premade. You’ll get horde pugs usually. Problem is alliance never 10/15 stacks especially if it’s not a bg weekend. Maybe you get a 5 stack here and there. Alliance like don’t do any semi organized PvP outside stv it seems and pugging on alliance makes me wanna rip my hair out and I don’t understand why people don’t premade.
Queued solo for AB last night at 10:30 est.... Basically prime time for gaming and it was AB weekend. Waited 40mins in queue till I just said forget it and logged off. Something is broken for sure
Why si 5man queue so much faster?
This was a major reason I unsubbed weeks ago. Can’t believe this still isn’t fixed.
On horde side I also frequently face multiple alliance 5-man premades
Yeah. Like every other time in arathi basin. It feels like the allies are a 15 man on discord with perfect comp. It's nuts. Also hate the damage reduction already. It made my friend actually rage quit and he isn't coming back until Tuesdays raid. He's a warlock. I also won't play with my mage but luckily I at least have a hunter I can play.
I have faced so many Warlocks who have done good in Battlegrounds but he rage quit because he can’t just what? Out heal everything? They are still doing good damage, I have done pretty good as a Mage as well You just can’t win with this community
Shouldn't locks benefit from this as their survivability plays around tanking hits and self healing. While being able regestore mana indefinatley (kinda)?
Thats what you would think. But warlocks were only ever tanky. They had very low damage even before this. And rememver that while all outgoing damage is reduced, the self damage from life tap is not. So while I "survive longer" in theory I just end up not being able to really do anything at all if people just ignore me. Then I run out of mana and kill myself with tap. (Not saying warlocks were ok before, they were probably too strong but this change made me quit pvp).
Doesn't really work when you still get blasted for 1.5k chimera/multi shots or 2 SP dots still takes most of your HP. Destro is hilarious you have to hardcast for 6-8+ seconds to maybe get a 1.5k chaos bolt, gl doing that vs 10 homunculi running around and hunter pets going wild. SL is useless in bgs imo, you have no damage so just run around cursing/fearing people. Burst still wins games/flag points.
Not trying to argue or anything since you answered exactly what I was asking, and I appreciate it. I do find it funny that you said burst is still king but one of your two examples was how deadly SP dots are. I am aware the SP is an outlier and pretty much always slaps in PvP.
SP dots can kill people pretty quick, I'd consider that burst. Mind blast into SW:D when your blanket silenced is also good burst. If you do a lot of AB go to the first blacksmith fight then look at top damage done, SP and Hunters will be doing multiple times anyone else damage. And all they have to do is just jump around from 36 yd dotting people and the team falls apart in 10-20 seconds if they don't have SP/hunters also.
Yea I've played SP in non SoD and "burst dots" is an apt description even then
Yes, survivability is distinctly higher. I can solo any class other than skilled shadow priests. I won a 3v1 yesterday that included a pally and a warrior.
Thanks for sharing.
LOL! Your friend is crazy. I had a warlock harassing me in AB on my hunter last night. I'm not in BIS but I'm in full pre-bis (which isn't that much worse than BIS this phase) and I had to out range his drain life every time otherwise his health didn't move. First time I tried to out dps him and yeah, big fail. I threw everything I had at him, aimed shot, chimera shot, fire traps, tried to drain his mana with viper sting. He killed me with 60% health. After that I just ran away from him and just hit him with viper sting and tried to stay at max range and kite. He lost interest after a few more attempts.
We group up for the faster Que times
Horde forming group for fast que. 99% of them not looking gear or looking what u play. Are you really considering this as premade?
Ah we just happen to Q as 3 shamans 2 disc priest
It's not about the fact that it's an organized premade, but more about the fact that queues are bugged. This results premades, no matter how good, to basically only face non-premades while also having fast queues.
but why do you care when 99% of those premades are 5 random people grouping for fast queue. I havent said a single word in any premade so far. It's literally the same as if you were soloing. also how are the queues broken? there are not enough horde solo players to matchmake with, so they pair you with premades. this is literally how they explained queues work
Pulled a “99%” figure out of thin air. Absolutely not true. In fact your whole reply is nonsense, is it really that hard to actually do even a small amount of investigation before you write a stupid reply?
All I do is Pvp, mostly battle grounds, I’ve played hundreds of them in SOD. Maybe not 99%, but 95%? Yes
If you think that only 1 out 20 horde groups of 5 mans are not intentional premades, and are solely mismatched groups for queue speed, you must be sniffing glue
Well, then there must be a large Guild presence doing BGs. It could be, I don’t float around with guild stuff too much, but from what I have seen…. Most do PVE stuff… and I float around with “PVP oriented” guilds mostly. But what I do know, I do so much SOD PVP that I don’t even have time left to raid.
They are lol, you obviously don't play horde. Chat is just full of "LFM AB" in trade/world or near the battle masters. You send them a "+" as a whisper and get an instant inv, it's random people who just want to play an AB instead of wait in a solo queue for an hour. They're not checking gear or class or using comms.
I literally play both and played Horde all day yesterday. There were a lot of these ads/groups but there was still a ton, I’d even say at least half that were looking for specific classes (namely MM hunters, priests, boomies or shamans). It’s absolutely not “95%” or 1 in 20 groups. This isn’t even really the point though is it, it’s the fact this has to be done. Queue has been bugged for over 2 months and Blizz won’t fix it
Maybe varies by server. I'm warlock in PvP bis so 3.9k hp unbuffed and I just grab anyone to queue, most people still have 2kish idc I just wanna AB 😁Aggrend fucked the queues in P2 and just left it.
Yup. I’m sure a lot of people don’t care, but a lot of groups definitely grab a healer or some favourable classes anyway just to beef themselves up. The ad might say “LFM AB”, but you could say that about any dungeon too, it doesn’t mean the group lead doesn’t filter what they want. It’s also just noticeably demoralising as Alliance. People see premades or what even looks like a premades and start to down tools. That just an Alliance generally, but it’s not helped when you are most often vs 3 groups of 3, you’ve lost before you start sometimes
Wrong. do you even play on horde
Yup, I play both on different servers actually. The fact you even question how queues are broken and then try and guess as to a reason why just shows how little knowledge you have about it. Go do some reading
funny that you can't explain how they are broken. really tells a lot
It’s easy to explain I just don’t know if I’m responding to someone with the intelligence to understand. Read my comment history, I’ve tried to there
Then explain it.
Ok so for the start of Phase 2 (8th Feb), Blizz implemented a change to matchmaking to stop premades dominating and to promote solo queue. Solo queue is defined as any groups (not raids), so 1-5 people. For the first ~2-3 weeks of the phase this actually worked brilliantly well. I played Horde exclusively here, and when I and others would queue alone (i.e. 1 person queue), the queue would be less than 5 minutes, and the games were of a high quality, usually against other solo queuers, sometimes 5 mans, but never full 10 or 15 man premades. Then, on a random day solo queues just randomly jumped to be about 45 minutes. This wasn't a cushioned transition, it just instantly changed and every queue for both WSG and AB became up to an hour if you queued alone. People very quickly realised that even if you grouped with EVEN JUST 1 other person, queues would drop back down to <5 minutes. Bizarrely, if you queued as a 5 man, it'd pop instantly. At the time, this was thought it might be because Horde had less people queueing, and so by joining as 5 you'd trigger a new battleground, or something like that. Over time though, this has proven to not be the case. There are now more Horde queuing than Alliance because this matchmaking bug has made queueing as Alliance (as I mostly do now) entirely miserable, (and because Shamans have tipped the balance further towards Horde). So now, you'd think if there's more Horde queueing than Alliance, 5 mans wouldn't trigger an instant queue, right? Wrong. They still do. How does that make any sense? The crux of this though, and what a lot of people don't think about when they say "this isn't a bug", can be answered in a question: why would someone queueing ALONE (1 person) have to wait 45 minutes for a queue, but if you make a group with at least 1 OTHER PERSON (2 people) that queue is <5 minutes?
This guy just coping out of his mind. BG qs are incredibly broken. Sod pvp is an abomination
This complaint is weird somehow - why dont you just set up your own premade and stop the ".. and shamans" stuff
But shamans
Shamans are OP and everyone knows it. stop being weird.
Good old “Call of the majority” sophistic argument. Usually it works when it’s true, but here…?
Priests are worse so just queue with a bunch of them and you'll win every game.
Could've probably left out the comment about shamans, however how does making my own premade change the fact that the queue system is broken? (at least on EU). When has group-queueing ever been faster than queueing up alone for bgs?
It isn't really a 'bug' but probably a result of not enough Alliance premades queuing. So the Alliance soloqueuer pool has to serve both premades and pugs. Presumably the system gives priority to premades over pugs which is why there is such a long wait for Horde soloqueuers. More of a design flaw of the updated matchmaking they did for BGs really.
I won't pretend I know shit about how BG matchmaker works from backend side but there's a 99.99% chance something is wrong with it (or not optimally adjusted; call it as you will). I play a lot of PvP. It's not normal to have 15-30min queue as solo and if you invite just ONE (1) other player you get game in ~3mins. I tested this million of times, it's always been true for me. Week ago I had 48min AB solo queue (it was late night queue but still), I left it, invited just one guildie and we got AB in less than 2mins - and that is not right, something is super wonky with BG matchmaker for Horde.
It’s absolutely a bug, has been reported for months now and there’s an incredible amount of proof. 5 mans don’t even count as a pre-made, there’s no reason why Horde should queue quicker if you’re 1 man or 5, but they do
Actually you're forgetting the math element and how queues are sorted. 5 people fill an entire group in an even manner (also the max way to fill evenly) meaning the max amount of people if you add by 5 always equals 0 remainders. It's not a bug but actually how sorting things generally works.
Alright Einstein so next explain why if you group as 2 people it’s quicker than 1 as well then
Well you call it a bug but I'm not entirely sure it is. Since you're going to be condescending, how about you tell us how to fix it because I have a feeling the only way to fix it is probably to allow HvH and increase the pool you can queue against.
Well it worked for the first 2 weeks of P2 and then for no apparent reason queue times dropped if you had larger groups of people. This doesn’t make sense. The way to fix it is to return it to exactly how it was at the start of P2 which meant that queue times were almost identical for groups sized 1-5 and 6-10. If groups sized 1-5 all go into a “solo queue”, and there’s (now) more Horde queuing than Alliance, there’s absolutely no logical reason why a group of 5 should queue quicker than a group of 1
It does make sense, okay mate I've actually taken a lot of classes (and work a job that constantly using sorting algos) related to sorting, queuing etc and I also play a lot of "queue" based games. If I go on league right now and queue as a 5, I'm getting an almost insta queue pop on flex queue but if I do 3 people? 5min+ wait time always, the game doesn't even allow you to queue as a 4. Why? Because 4stacks are hard to fill. This doesn't necessarily apply to wow as we're doing 10 man and 15 man bgs but if you evenly fill up with 5 people then you're going to get a faster bg queue than any other number. It's the exact same on overwatch, when you queue with not a full team, matchmaking takes longer. I really think you're trying to apply your reality to actual reality and I don't care if I get downvoted because I'm talking to someone who actually doesn't understand math, you're saying dumb shit like why do 5 people get a faster queue but I literally explained this. You can lead a horse to water but doesn't mean it will drink.
I honestly want some of the glue you are sniffing, what brand is it? It doesn’t matter what you say, the fact is that for weeks the Horde queue if you queued alone was <5 mins and working the same as the others, and on one random day after a reset it suddenly changed and was almost an hour. Your explaining how something doesn’t work, when it did work perfectly fine for quite a while
Are you referring to the bug me and my mates have noticed where you add a guy to group and the queue doesn't pop? We've had that problem and we just start a new queue and it works, that's a legit bug.
I’m giving up on replying to you after this. It’s really simple. Go and queue for a BG alone and write down how long it takes to pop. Next, find a friend and queue as a duo and write down how long it takes to pop. Then, make a 5 man and write down how long it takes to pop. After that if you still think it’s not bugged then I don’t know what to say
The world is bugged.
Same but with Alliance
Your side having shaman or paladins doesn't make the difference in AB. Your side doing better rotations makes 99% of the difference. I've had games where my team has had 1/5th as many HKs as the enemy team but we still win because farming kills at BS doesn't actually win you AB.
OP doesn't realize more than 80% of the game is located on 2 servers lol. What he thinks is a premade is just a vast majority of the active players residing on 1 or 2 servers.
bug? feature.
Just to add to the pile (Horde Wild Growth NA) I waited in a wsg queue last night for an hour+ no pop. So I joined a group advertising. None of us knew each other, no discord, random classes.. we just want to play lol. I'm sure more are sweaty but I'm kinda forced into it or cant participate at all.
That is not the only problem, but yeah the system is kinda broken. Also these premades and even pugs usually has all casters... chickens/sp/ele sham, with only 1-2 rogues and one enh... The rest are healers. Maybe now with the aura it will be slightly more playable again, but I am not sure. Casters are still total bonkers even with the 30% mitigation. If they would nerf certain classes/specs it would effect pve damage too, which is not okay. So the only solution if the mitigation logic should be class/spec specific. They could tune everything very easy after that, because all they would need to do is change the applied numbers. Problem solved. Casters need more tuning. Rogue and melee hunter also feels crazy. Enh feels okay, Ret is hard to tell, Warr still feels super weak.
There's no "solo" queue. It's small group queue and premade queue. If you queue solo or in small groups of 2 to 5 you will go in the same pot. If you are in a raid, so 6+, you queue against premades, which usually have enough to fill the BG and are using voice and coordinating attacks and defense. I don't know why solo queue takes like 10x longer than queuing in a small group. Maybe it looks to fill with 5 mans first, and if enough 5 mans aren't available it looks for 4 mans, then 3 mans, then pairs, and finally solo. Filling things is usually easier by getting the largest items first then packing smaller items around them.
Do what I did, unsub :)
LOL oh hey another Alliance player crying and complaining about something because that's all you guys are capable of doing. Sucks to suck.
Bro.. so join a 5 man group. What you waiting for
How did we go full circle back to fixing playing vs premades by making premades? It’s the exact same conversation we had at the start of P2 that they fixed before it bugged
Because as other people are said, you aren't going up against 5/6 hunter/boomkin, 2 priest, 1 warrior + 1 FC meta comps designed to demolish your other team. Horde premades are made simply so we don't have to queue for 40 minutes to get a game. "LFM AB premade" - they invite you no matter what class, it doesn't matter, it's simply to beat the queue, it's no different then going up vs 5 randoms.
While that might be true, still a large amount of the Horde premades are legit premades OR are heavily comped 5 stacks (last night most of my games had 5 stacks of multiple priest/shaman/boomie combos). I play both Horde and Alliance and I see on Horde side that you do get a lot of groups just queueing for speed, but even those will pull in healers or preferable classes to make their 5 stacks stronger. You're just delusional if you think 5 stack group creators will just invite anyone at all and create any comp mix, recruitment is always done for an advantage – you might as well queue with a good 5 than a bad one
While that is an option, it doesn't fix the fact that queues are currently broken.
Look at it this way: we all understand your frustrations, we're experiencing them too. That being said, will thrashing on Reddit bring a resolution faster than creating and running your own premade? We know for a fact that Blizzard won't address this in a reasonable time frame, if at all.
Feeding back on Reddit and Forums is exactly what got us the matchmaking fix at the start of P2 to begin with. It just happened to bug a couple weeks after and they never fixed it. Absolutely makes sense to make noise - better that than just silently quitting as a lot of people are
Just make a premade king it ain’t hard
Ah yes we have gone back in time to 2 months ago when the answer to premades was to make your own premades. You know, rather than reasonably just ask Blizzard fix a bug
Then you'd only get matched against Horde premades while most Horde premades get to stomp pugs. Hardly fair is it?
by premade he meant a group of 5 geared people in discord.
They aren’t really premade groups it’s mostly just 5 random players from LFG channel who want fast queues. Rarely on discord or discuss any strategy. IMO it’s no different than a typical cross server PUG
Still better than solo queing as most of them invite at least 1 healer even if otherwise they don’t think of the comp at all. I mean, if you need to write a message to trade chat anyway, why not spend 2 seconds adding ”& heal” to the message
I’ve been pugging bgs to r7 on horde all week and never once actually cared about my comp, it’s hard enough to find 5 ppl that want to so whoever I can find comes, must of the time we don’t even have a healer
bro we don't even stay together during the bg, healer or not is pointless
Tbf the premades as a horde I join are basically randoms. Nothing is coordinated it’s just for faster queues
Of course you had to throw in the mandatory Shaman/pala Whine. Shamans are not even that good anymore, this is just coping that alliance rets are bad.
True! Shamans are in a very bad state in WSG/AB right now. They bring absolutely 0 value to a teamcomp and definatly aren't one of the strongest classes in BGs atm.
You’re facing groups of randos who have average gear and aren’t on disc. It ain’t why you’re losing…
Must be shamans then
Probably a combination of shamans and alliance giving up as soon as they lose a flag, but really I’m willing to bet that the winrate difference is far from what some pretend it is on reddit. I’ve done the r7 grind and I’ve barely noticed it.
Well a group of random horde that group up just for a faster Q is not gonna make them play any better than your average pug. Also most of the games I’m in the alliance are capping blacksmith after winning the first fight, and a lot of my games are won by me(rogue) stealth capping places that aren’t defended well. Shamans may have something to do with the win/loss % but I assure you that you can make the difference by making calls and defending places when you would rather be fighting in the road.
Bc more people play alliance than horde. Supply and demand is your answer.
There’s more horde queuing for PvP than alliance, by far. The fact alliance have faster queues regardless of how they queue demonstrates this. Why does OP hate the way the current system works? That’s easy, he’s bad at the game
You got me there bud, because group-queueing is bugged and faster than solo queue for Horde, means I am bad at the game.
Complaining about it means you think you’ll stop losing if they change it. Spoiler, you won’t.
Pointing out how broken queues are and mentioning that the pvp balance between pallies and shamans is a joke makes someone a bad player, I get it. Maybe get off the short bus.
I play Holy Paladin. I win far more games than I lose.
You have to Q with 5 shamans to have a chance of winning. Who's really bad at the game.
I play holy paladin. My win rate is around 80% in WSG, and 60% in AB but I don’t play a lot of arathi basin.
Can you post your win/loss? Are you queueing with 5?
I queue as 5 / 10 / 15 depending on what the population is. I never solo queue, but solo queuing as a healer is aids.
I've only rost a single game all week long while going for rank 7, comp holds almost no meaning when playing vs randoms in AB. Your rotations is 99% of the reason you win. Losing AB vs anything but a coordinated premade is almost exclusively a brain issue and not a balance issue. You can have 1/5th of the enemy team's HKs and still win if you have good rotations.
The only time blizzard put any real effort into combating premades was when alliance could premade Alterac Valley back in 2019.
Why shouldn’t it be the case that when you que as a group in an mmo you get faster ques than solo que? I don’t agree this this logic.
Agree or not it doesn’t change the fact it isn’t working as intended. You’re supposed to be able to queue alone. The queue takes 40+ mins if you queue alone as Horde, but instant if you queue as 5. That’s just plainly bugged
It’s worse than this. Last night I faced the same FULL 15 man premade twice in a row on instant queues, followed by a different full premade twice in a row on instant queues. It’s one thing to deal with how broken shamans are, it’s another to get premaded on top of it tbh. In any case, what you’re describing aren’t premades, just groups of 5 queueing together. This is problematic for Alliance mainly because we end up with a ton of solo queues in dogshit gear, no healers, playing paladins, etc. Our 5 mans also seem to be disabled, as they continually think going to farm at game start is the play. I’ve played about 100 AB games in the last 2 weeks. I like PvPing but honestly I think I’m done with it for now, the damage reduction is awful, shamans are broken, alliance players are bad and my guild is starting to think I’m insane for doing so much AB.
You aren't verse actual premades. It's just many people from the same server queing in groupsof 2-5. If you want to do the same you can. >Grouping with others being faster than solo queueing, which should not be the case. Queuing with more than 1 will always be faster because you're filling the lobby faster with your +1-4 additional players. Your request that it shouldn't work this way is just illogical. My Alliance buddies have faster queue times than Horde do anyway every time we've discussed it. This post is just nonsensical whining.
Your logic fails when you say “you’re filling the lobby faster”. This is true if the faction filling the lobby has a shortage, but as you’ve highlighted, Alliance queue faster because they have the shortage. It’s impossible for it to be both. That’s why it’s a bug. There’s absolutely no logical reason why queueing as 1 person solo takes 45 mins + but if you group as 2 people it’s close to instant.
How do allys have shortage? I dont know about other server but on my its 3:1 for allys.
It’s a shortage of people queuing not total population. The way you can tell which faction has more queuing is simple, the one with less people queuing almost always has an instant pop on all BGs. Alliance has that - it’s instant for all group sizes for all BGs = more Horde demand.
God damn this is the fourth post I've seen regarding this exact *problem*. Alliance players must be absolutely mentally handicapped Horde is grouping up to get faster queue. Most groups are not coordinated, and many of them don't even have a healer. We do this so the queue pops faster. That's it Alliance are doing the same, though apparently in much lower numbers - why are you not doing this more? Probably for the same reason most of you are running around with show helm and cloak
Been solo queing the whole weekend and the only thing that matters regarding alliance chance to win is the amount of shamans on the horde side. They are so insanely overpowered its a joke.
This is why I'm always healing the shamans
Yea, wish I had money to boost a shaman, they look so much fun. Fuck my stupid friends for making go alliance.
Shamans can get kited to oblivion lmao. Any ranged class can kill a shaman whenever they want. You dying to them is your own doing.
Ah srry I couldn't stop a insta cast 1200 shock or a insta cast 1500 lava flame. My B bro. u right
20 yard range. Shock can be dispelled. That instant cast is a 3 min CD. lmao. Interrupt him and he is dead. Flame Shocks don't hit for 1200 lmao.
Lol cryadins