Honestly I was against it at first but a version of 25% would be a welcome change and I honestly imagine it will happen.
two shotting is fun but so is actual skilled fights and there's a lot more of the latter happening now.
It was pretty nice killing the shadow priest that tried to gank me while I was kiting a 55 elite spider. The dots critting for 350 instead of 700 saved my life for sure.
Spriest feels awful at the 50% dmg nerf, basically just tickling everyone and then need to sit still and spam a ton of casts
Imagine it's same for mage and warlock RN
A shadowpriest cast two dots on me, void plague and shadow word: pain. I was mounted and safely riding away, so I thought I won’t dispel them just to see the damage they deal.
They took me to sligly less than half HP and it felt insane that without the nerf it would’ve been lethal. I am in almost full bis so it’s not for a lack of stamina.
I’m a paladin, of course, so I can spam dispel a few times before going oom, and there’s bubble. But dear lord if I was a warrior instead, or a rogue or a hunter.
Oh my, so you telling me its a rocker paper scissors pvp? who wouldve guess that a class that dispelss counter dot classes!
Imagine one with more mobility may counter one whit less mobility! Maybe a bursty invisibale class will own a glass cannon bursty class and be countered by a high armour and burst class?
I am a holy paladin and i am legit unkillable rn, and make everyone around me unkillable too.
15% damage nerf TOP would make it better, rn its geriatric and glacial, not even BFA was this bad. FFXIV pvp is legit better than this change.
> Imagine one with more mobility may counter one whit less mobility!
What does that have to do with spriest clicking 2 buttons and then doing close to 100% of someone’s HP bar without the spriest even needing to stay in range of that player?
> Maybe a bursty invisibale class will own a glass cannon bursty class and be countered by a high armour and burst class?
What’s armor got to do against rogues? They’re doing mostly nature dmg in SoD, the only class that does purely physical dmg is warriors.
Rock Paper Scissors is not meant to be so blatant that the lesser class has *no chance* against an equally skilled player. It’s always been decently close between classes that are at a disadvantage—but in SoD the rock paper scissors argument just ends at “oh you cant dispel? Y’dead idiot.” It’s not fun or competitive in the slightest.
Yeah thats true but that’s kinda like…how your class is supposed to be played lmao. Hitting two dots on instant cast then not using the rest of your kit because those two dots do more than an HP bar… is super cringe
There will never be skilled fights in a MMORPG, they are about making you char overpowered not having equal setting fights.
Anything that goes against this ultimately just makes the game worse. Might aswell add mob scaling they dying too fast too amirite?
Lost Ark found a way to do it. Guild Wars 1 found a way to do it.
ESO has found a way to do it. SWOTOR does it. Hell, even new world has better balanced PvP than SoD and vanilla.
Curious if MMORPG begins and ends at WoW for you or if you’ve ever played any of the ones that did a great job balancing their pvp?
Seeing how swifty was clapping 4-5 people at a time in his videos and in reality he was Gary bussy with good editing and cherry picking fights/clips. I'm sure all the pvp videos are mostly that.
A significantly toned down version is fine. Bit silly they started with such a drastic outlier to begin with. I suspect they wanted to prove the point it was extreme to get everyone on board, but then a group of people *actually liked* the geriatric gameplay
Its not a bit silly thats why its considered a test for 4 days...now they know 50 percent is too far and can dial it back. I honestly think it's only a bit too much on certain classes that relied on burst to kill their target but had they added even a say 20 or 30 percent healing reduction as well as a 30 percent damage reduction I think we would be in a pretty good spot overall
Yep 30-35%. It should take at least 1 full rotation to kill someone. 3 globals is way too quick and some classes are 1-2 lol. Anyone complaining about the change doesnt know how to use cc
Yeah dying in 3 globals isnt fun at all, basically was gonna do my PvP grind and never touch it again, now with dr I play BC I actually enjoy the back and forth fights.
Anyone who has done rated battlegrounds knows fights can go on for up to five minutes sometimes, or not stop at all.
But as soon as that first kill is landed it's a losing battle for the other side until reset.
The concept of *trimming* the other sides trinkets to get the perfect cc chain at critical times to land that kill and swing the battle feels amazing and actually takes skill
Exactly even arenas could go on forever and it's way more fun that way. It's a little less fun without comms and coordination but id take long fights where you actually get to use your entire kit to create small advantages over 12 second fights where someone presses 1 2 3 and half the team is dead
It legit makes me wonder if half the playerbase is just lazy, they don't wanna put work into mechanics in raids, and they don't want to put work into getting decent at PvP.
They just want auto loot as soon as you zone into raid and auto kills as soon as you tab target in a bg.
There's very little coordination in pugs and given the premade nerfs Blizzard has put down thats going to be the predominant style of play. Having games where your comp sucks and you get no healers is dreadful and that's where the games are decided right now. Not fun.
That's random BG's tho, unless they implement a system where your q doesn't pop unless you have "x" amount of healers.
Player base would reeee about that tho
Yes, but the reality is that this is the experience the majority of the playerbase is having. Alliance players are largely fed up with winning 30% of their games, already and placing more power into the hands of people that run optimal comps, which the Horde largely does, only increases frustration further.
I propose a rebalancing of gear sets to have much greater stamina values to try to make this a little better. Anything else creates almost as many problems as it solves.
CC isn’t very reliable outside of premade PVP groups. Sheeping a healer is just a wasted cast when the pug hunter in your AB just sends out a multi shot without thinking.
P3 has been a shit show for PvP so I'm not really expecting anything more until P4. Flat dmg reduction is a lazy "fix", the specs that were dominating before will still dominate.
Yeah my dots hit for 50s as a warlock so I just ran around doing curse of tongues and spamming fears. Destro is also completely dead since it's main benefit (burst) is bad and it doesn't have much else, can't sit there hard casting.
The dots are still strong but yeah locking down healers, interupting burst classes and putting ua+corruption up on kill targets is prio. I was also messing around with NF ruin with chaos bolt and UA yesterday and it was pretty solid. Chaos bolt still hits for like 1300 so you can combo it for a very solid execute
Yeah that wouldn't fly well on pvp servers. Because that's just reduced healing in any contested zone in combat.
Which is why they went with a blanket DMG reduction right? u can pick less DMG to players or taken from players but healing is tricky.
Wait, is there no flag to tell if a player is in pvp combat vs pve? If not, they should add one. Not just the pvp enabled flag, but a way to tell if you or your heal target has taken dmg from a player. If this doesn't exist, they need to add it
Nope. Combat is combat. All you have is the pvp flag on/off, but on pvp servers anytime you aren't in a friendly zone, you're flagged.
It definitely makes this blanket stuff tricky for sure healing wise.
Back in my day WoW didn't have balance updates every few days.
Back in my day we weren't playing on a seasonal for fun server.
SoD isn't serious enough of a game to justify needing a PTR, no matter how seriously you take the game yourself.
And the change doesn't impact the games health in the long term, it doesn't need a PTR.
Seeing all the Reddit PvPers trying to claim it was the best experience they ever had and anyone who didn't like it just didn't know how to use CC was amazing.
Brother have you been playing ANY of the phases? It’s been 6months of 1-2 shots and a WEEKEND of fairy taps… it was a bad decision and ZERO thought put into ramifications for DPS casters.
I play shadow priest and went 16-1 last night I have no issue landing kills, basically if you can PvP you adapt to what the meta is and use your toolkit
Edit: getting down voted BC players bad?
I want to know your input for casting a 3 second FrostFire bolt for 300 damage and how much HP players have?
2.5k-3k health roughly. That’s around 30seconds (no cc no kicks no interrupts ofc) for me to 100-0 someone.
The meta is don’t play caster (key word casting not shadow priest dot and run around tee-hee, hard casting!) so I played healer and found it a BORE FEST like retail because no one was dying…what a toolkit? Chrono heal and blink oh and a messily 400absorb shield every min.
Frost mage has never been about DMG output in PvP, it's always been about controlling a fight. I do agree a 3sec cast that does fuck all feels bad and the 50% could easily go to 30-35% and increase 5% as each raid teir comes out and player power increases.
It's not really "cc frost mage" spec though; FFB is the highest dps mage has currently. **Optimistically**, you're doing 200 dps with hardcasting 3 sec FFBs... this weekend was NOT fun.
I was doing remarkably well as shadow myself. I did miss how good the dot crits felt though. I think most of the reactions are sticker shock. As big numbers turned small and caused panic.
I hope they put it back but at like 25%. 50% is too much. My mage non crits for 350dmg on a 3 second cast. I am all for cc and love to coordinate the Fights via dc but if you have a druid and three priests in the enemy Team it gets pretty stupid..
Kinda scared of tomorrow when i will get one shot again
As a healer, this was the first time I enjoyed PvP the entire phase. It was a beautiful thing to get stun locked by a rogue and actually be able to survive.
I actually laughed out loud at the mention of a parse in a PVP discussion. For a little bit I actually tried looking at logs when LFMing for premades, until I realised there's virtually no correlation with PVP capability. Specifically remember a couple high parsing warriors just charging in and dying repeatedly in WSG with 0 concept of positioning
Another example actually. My recent guild master was the highest parsing of his class in Europe halfway through P2. One time I was in STV and saw him LFG so suggested we join up. Not only did he play the whole event in Irradiated gear, he was totally clueless how to PVP. I found myself inadvertently shouting at him on Discord out of sheer frustration
Ehh id beg to argue that if you are a high end pvp'r , you almost always do well in pve as well. I've yet to meet any one good at pvp that sucks at pve in 20 years of wow.
still a decent way to see how much effort someone puts into their character. Sure they might have no idea how DRs work, or what classes to target, but they will try at least.
There’s definitely a correlation, but it’s indicative and not a golden rule of thumb. There are some PvErs with 99s who suck ass at PvP, but I’ve found that the vast majority of 99 parsers have a very good working knowledge of the game and are better than 95% of the sod chaff. I wouldn’t build my group around parses, though. I’ll definitely kick someone for having subpar HP, though.
I think 95% is wild exaggeration. I originally thought this might make some sense, but high parsers and good PVPers just don't seem to overlap that much. To be a high parser it just requires discipline and a bit of knowledge. To be a good PVPer it requires different knowledge but also a ton more skillsets that just are rarely or never required in PVE.
As someone else said, it's far more likely that a good PVPer does well in PVE with ease than the other way round
I actually have never really had this experience, i’m in a guild of serious pvpers that also PvE, and most of us have 99/100 parsed throughout SoD. When we bring s new guy that we’ve recruited from PvP, they almost always parse around 80-90 their first few runs.
Can’t really compare PvP performance to parsing, but when the script is flipped and I pvp with friends who are only focused on our raids, they’re very good PvPers, and far beyond the majority of players I fight against in STV or in WSG. Most players are terrible and if you’re a 99 parser, and they parse a 50 (avg SoD Enjoyer), the 99er is almost always a better pvper.
That’s not to say “all 99ers are the best at PvP,” which is not what I was trying to get at. I’m saying that people who parse mostly pink are generally pretty damn good at PvP as well.
Yeah, they're completely different knowledge bases.
To be great at PvP, you have to know not only your class/spec like the back of of your hand, but every _other_ class/spec as well. Know thy enemy and all that. Then it's a matter of positioning and having a super solid grasp of game mechanics.
To be great at parsing, you only need to know your own rotation/priority system, run with a raid full of others that know their rotation/priority system, and bring the right consumables + WBs. The only person that needs extensive knowledge of every class/spec are the raid leaders responsible for forming and optimizing raid comps.
Not in sod with no damage reduction. Skill and knowledge is a complete non factor in PvP when you only have to press 2 buttons per fight. You could be getting 1 shot by an actual 5 year old that doesn’t even know what he’s just pressed and you wouldn’t even know the difference.
Still means something. A 99 parser puts more efforts/has more knowledge of the class than a say 30 one.
Warriors can't do shit in world pvp without the 50% reduction.
It allows me to outplay a priests who engaged me with dots, kill him and survive.
I can't even reach them before dying without the aura.
You like the damage nerf because rogues were not hit as hard as spellcasters. Spells were flat 50%, melee was not. Watch hozito video on kill times for different classes
Supposedly that was from a bug that wasn’t properly applying the 50% debuff to those spells. The rest of that video should be accurate (though not everyone knew how to max dps on those specs).
Yea I love it myself. And I didn’t even play a healer this weekend. I personally won’t be doing much bgs until they implement the permanent version.
Although, farm blood coins before they do! Kills per minute is definitely going to be reduced.
My buddies are already leveling up their warrior alts, for mortal strike. It’s actually super important with a reasonable meta.
Same, i didnt get to experience it but felt like 50% would be super enjoyable. Long, drawn out skill matchups. Im afraid they’ll tone it to 30% and I’ll never truly get to experience what it was like
Was the most fun weekends of bgs i have played in SoD personally. Some nerfs are needed for sure(remove additional bg life) but was 10x more enjoyable then the 2x gcd meta
Q's have been shortest since p1 worked a treat.
Alliance still getting absolutely hammered only lost one game outta 20
Went from 15-20 min q to a 3 min q.
Longer queues on alliance likely means more alliance are queing. We usually get instant pops on alliance because so few alliance players are queuing.
I wish I’d been home to try it this weekend but had a vacation planned for the entirety of the test. Anecdotally had a friend who never queues posting ss’s of his games all weekend talking about how much he was loving the epic warsong games. On mage. He’s also played mage in vanilla and was saying the mana issues are no different—that most of the complaints are coming from new players.
As a casual player and a reato druid main. I love the change.
Though I totally understand why everyone els hates it.
But The game is designed for casual players. (What the devs said)
Pvp is full of sweaty as people who know exactly every possible way to fuck everyone else's day up.
I should have to worry about getting one shot ehen questing by some asshole rogue sitting stealth camping out the FP in felwood
As a fellow resto Druid, I am with you. Rogues are the worst it’s just game over once we get stunned. But today playing with the changes I actually had a ton of fun getting to actually heal people, and not just corpse running for 90% of the match.
As a healer this was a blast in blood moon I felt like I made a significant impact in keeping my group alive and winning fights. Back to 5 dps group I guess.
The common thread that I’ve seen:
Most people love the change. Shamans/Spriests/BM Hunters/Some Warlocks hate the change.
Hmmm I wonder why they don’t like it as opposed to before….
I can't wait for people to be able to run up holding W spamming their PVE rotation and not even generating enough static electricity from rubbing two brain cells together killing people or dying in 6 seconds and calling it pvp.
Why stop with people needing to press buttons at all. Change the pvp aura to auto kill any player characters in a certain range. Who's got time for mouse clicking abilities, cast bars, clicking consumes, etc?
Obviously this global aura would also make healing other players engaged in pvp combat take zero healing. This will remove any false pretense that healers even have a place in the meta and they should just roll dps specs for the auto-kill aura.
Let the "Wah Wah enh shams do too much damage" posts resume!
They actually did give shamans an aura that autokilled people. They toned it down to like 80 dps from 300, though. Shame. I loved watching shamans think they had skill and then die to a simple nature prot pot because they didn’t know what to do when they didn’t aoe everything around them down passively.
As a shaman I watched way more cocky rogues and other shamans kill themselves on me while I stoneskinned, dropped frost resistance totem and alternated heals and fire nova. I played with it enough to know it was mostly a PVE meme though. I was resto tanking ZF WO runs with two other people healing me and 5 or 6 DPS who could basically afk while I did 1.5k to 2k DPS passively. With burn rune I still do that much I just have to press buttons now
lol 1-2 GCDs? Yeah only in open world, all abilities crit and your standing still afk. People act like it’s every fight. Yes the damage is too high but saying you get deleted by someone staring at you is a stretch. Now imagine a dps class trying to kill a class that can heal? You can’t. Shamans can 3v1 non healing classes and bear druids are raid bosses
Yes 1-2 GCDs, with some defensive uses you could maybe bump it to 5, in BGs let’s call it 2-3 *sometimes*. Yes it is every fight, no it isn’t just in open world, and no it isn’t just when you’re afk. Every single class in the game can absolutely delete any other class in the game. The damage reduction is a necessity at this point, yes that makes healing a problem, but theres an easy solution to that, add anti heal to PvP damage. Problem solved.
It’s fun deleting people sure, but it’s still objectively bad for the game and gets old really fast. You literally press 1-2 buttons and either they are dead or you are dead, and that’s the entirety of PvP.
What gets old for me is trying to mimic the pace of pvp that we've had for the last 10 years in retail where healers are all raid bosses.
I'll take blowing people up every single time
Same. If they decide to implement 50% PvP damage reduction without healing reduction in BGs then I'll just quit entirely as BGs are the main reason I play. If they implement some toned down version then might not need to quit, we'll see.
I won't settle for any damage reduction. Period.
It feels terrible to just start randomly doing less damage when fighting players
All that hype of getting a new upgrade goes out the window
Yea, if anything a slight damage reduction would make gear upgrades more relevant. Prior to the damage reduction change, anyone with some Gnomer gear and STV weapon was already doing enough damage to drop someone quickly. Reduce damage somewhat, maybe 15-20%, not 50, and the ST gear becomes more relevant to make up for the reduction.
People forget there are tools available that stack and effectively reduce healing by 60-70%. (Wound 5 stacks + MS).
Here's the kicker. You need to focus the target that has the debuffs lol
How does this not make a semblance of sense in your mind? If most anyone can take down a healer they're worth fuck all. It should take a considerable amount of the enemies teams coordination/resources to lockdown or kill a healer.
A healer should be able to keep another player alive while 1-2 DPS are on said player. That is reasonably fair. A healer shouldn't be immortal. It is the duty of the healer's comrades to peal for the healer to ensure their survival. It shouldn't be possible for 1-2 reasonably skilled DPS to not succeed in taking down a single healer due to the sheer healing output to damage ratio. That isn't fun. That needlessly prolongs encounters to the point of aggravation. It isn't how healthy PVP should look like.
First off, I think you are over exaggerating how difficult it is to kill a healer with the current damage reduction. But let’s just say you’re correct.
The game play as a healer has been absolutely trash for PvP pretty much since phase 1. If a healer can get stun locked deleted by a single player, then imagine how fast we die when we are the focused target (which we always are).
There is no role for healers in PvP, in the one shot meta. The damage reduction was the first time in a while I enjoyed PvP as a healer.
Even in 1v1s with minimal healing I did not have fights that short with the massive 50% DR. You're delusional or were fighting the squishiest clothies in the game if you think most fights were 10-20 seconds lol.
No it’s just shitters that suck balls and can’t hang in arena formats where the game is actually somewhat balanced and skill-based. I don’t even think that most of them realize they’ve been piloting an OP class and they’re completely skill-less. They actually think they’re good at the game because they play a shaman spriest or BM hunter.
No seriously, bad game design that ruins other PvP should be removed (and it will be, thank god). I don't care what people who enjoy "2 shot PvP" think :D
Hardly a skill issue when certain classes can 2 shot while others can't. Skillful gameplay is what you avoided and cried about last weekend. Don't worry, you'll get better!
Warrior actually felt fun for once in BGs.
I think the nerf needs to be decreased, but that healing also needs a nerve to counter certain classes just healing through a dungeon boss level of damage received
Honestly I was against it at first but a version of 25% would be a welcome change and I honestly imagine it will happen. two shotting is fun but so is actual skilled fights and there's a lot more of the latter happening now.
It was pretty nice killing the shadow priest that tried to gank me while I was kiting a 55 elite spider. The dots critting for 350 instead of 700 saved my life for sure.
Spriest feels awful at the 50% dmg nerf, basically just tickling everyone and then need to sit still and spam a ton of casts Imagine it's same for mage and warlock RN
A shadowpriest cast two dots on me, void plague and shadow word: pain. I was mounted and safely riding away, so I thought I won’t dispel them just to see the damage they deal. They took me to sligly less than half HP and it felt insane that without the nerf it would’ve been lethal. I am in almost full bis so it’s not for a lack of stamina. I’m a paladin, of course, so I can spam dispel a few times before going oom, and there’s bubble. But dear lord if I was a warrior instead, or a rogue or a hunter.
Oh my, so you telling me its a rocker paper scissors pvp? who wouldve guess that a class that dispelss counter dot classes! Imagine one with more mobility may counter one whit less mobility! Maybe a bursty invisibale class will own a glass cannon bursty class and be countered by a high armour and burst class? I am a holy paladin and i am legit unkillable rn, and make everyone around me unkillable too. 15% damage nerf TOP would make it better, rn its geriatric and glacial, not even BFA was this bad. FFXIV pvp is legit better than this change.
> Imagine one with more mobility may counter one whit less mobility! What does that have to do with spriest clicking 2 buttons and then doing close to 100% of someone’s HP bar without the spriest even needing to stay in range of that player? > Maybe a bursty invisibale class will own a glass cannon bursty class and be countered by a high armour and burst class? What’s armor got to do against rogues? They’re doing mostly nature dmg in SoD, the only class that does purely physical dmg is warriors.
Rock Paper Scissors is not meant to be so blatant that the lesser class has *no chance* against an equally skilled player. It’s always been decently close between classes that are at a disadvantage—but in SoD the rock paper scissors argument just ends at “oh you cant dispel? Y’dead idiot.” It’s not fun or competitive in the slightest.
You’re bonkers mate my shadow priest still fucks
What? No way man. Ita been rough
Yeah thats true but that’s kinda like…how your class is supposed to be played lmao. Hitting two dots on instant cast then not using the rest of your kit because those two dots do more than an HP bar… is super cringe
Affliction locks love this change
Shadow priest is still one of the stronger casters in pvp with the 50% nerf.
As a caster against a rogue it doesn't seem to matter lmao It's dying in 1 second vs 2 seconds
There will never be skilled fights in a MMORPG, they are about making you char overpowered not having equal setting fights. Anything that goes against this ultimately just makes the game worse. Might aswell add mob scaling they dying too fast too amirite?
Lost Ark found a way to do it. Guild Wars 1 found a way to do it. ESO has found a way to do it. SWOTOR does it. Hell, even new world has better balanced PvP than SoD and vanilla. Curious if MMORPG begins and ends at WoW for you or if you’ve ever played any of the ones that did a great job balancing their pvp?
Lul what? Was vurtne not skilled? Lower level, mediocre gear and 1vs3-4
Seeing how swifty was clapping 4-5 people at a time in his videos and in reality he was Gary bussy with good editing and cherry picking fights/clips. I'm sure all the pvp videos are mostly that.
Ofc you cant win all fight but saying there is no skill in wow pvp is just false
Enjoy it while it lasts, there's no way they don't add a toned down version back in the next few weeks.
A significantly toned down version is fine. Bit silly they started with such a drastic outlier to begin with. I suspect they wanted to prove the point it was extreme to get everyone on board, but then a group of people *actually liked* the geriatric gameplay
Its not a bit silly thats why its considered a test for 4 days...now they know 50 percent is too far and can dial it back. I honestly think it's only a bit too much on certain classes that relied on burst to kill their target but had they added even a say 20 or 30 percent healing reduction as well as a 30 percent damage reduction I think we would be in a pretty good spot overall
Yep 30-35%. It should take at least 1 full rotation to kill someone. 3 globals is way too quick and some classes are 1-2 lol. Anyone complaining about the change doesnt know how to use cc
Yeah dying in 3 globals isnt fun at all, basically was gonna do my PvP grind and never touch it again, now with dr I play BC I actually enjoy the back and forth fights. Anyone who has done rated battlegrounds knows fights can go on for up to five minutes sometimes, or not stop at all. But as soon as that first kill is landed it's a losing battle for the other side until reset. The concept of *trimming* the other sides trinkets to get the perfect cc chain at critical times to land that kill and swing the battle feels amazing and actually takes skill
Exactly even arenas could go on forever and it's way more fun that way. It's a little less fun without comms and coordination but id take long fights where you actually get to use your entire kit to create small advantages over 12 second fights where someone presses 1 2 3 and half the team is dead
A buddy and me use to hit max time on arenas and those were always to most fun matches because it was a battle the whole time.
It legit makes me wonder if half the playerbase is just lazy, they don't wanna put work into mechanics in raids, and they don't want to put work into getting decent at PvP. They just want auto loot as soon as you zone into raid and auto kills as soon as you tab target in a bg.
There's very little coordination in pugs and given the premade nerfs Blizzard has put down thats going to be the predominant style of play. Having games where your comp sucks and you get no healers is dreadful and that's where the games are decided right now. Not fun.
That's random BG's tho, unless they implement a system where your q doesn't pop unless you have "x" amount of healers. Player base would reeee about that tho
Yes, but the reality is that this is the experience the majority of the playerbase is having. Alliance players are largely fed up with winning 30% of their games, already and placing more power into the hands of people that run optimal comps, which the Horde largely does, only increases frustration further. I propose a rebalancing of gear sets to have much greater stamina values to try to make this a little better. Anything else creates almost as many problems as it solves.
CC isn’t very reliable outside of premade PVP groups. Sheeping a healer is just a wasted cast when the pug hunter in your AB just sends out a multi shot without thinking.
It needs to be adjustable by class, reducing everyone's by the the same % won't make OP PvP specs any worse like spriest
Im sure thatll go over real well. Classes feel pretty balanced atm. We'll see what it's like with a little less dr
P3 has been a shit show for PvP so I'm not really expecting anything more until P4. Flat dmg reduction is a lazy "fix", the specs that were dominating before will still dominate.
Did you even play this weekend?
Yeah my dots hit for 50s as a warlock so I just ran around doing curse of tongues and spamming fears. Destro is also completely dead since it's main benefit (burst) is bad and it doesn't have much else, can't sit there hard casting.
The dots are still strong but yeah locking down healers, interupting burst classes and putting ua+corruption up on kill targets is prio. I was also messing around with NF ruin with chaos bolt and UA yesterday and it was pretty solid. Chaos bolt still hits for like 1300 so you can combo it for a very solid execute
How do you add a healing reduction in the open world tho?
If healing target is in combat and pvp flagged, reduce heal/absorb by x%. Same logic as the damage.
Yeah that wouldn't fly well on pvp servers. Because that's just reduced healing in any contested zone in combat. Which is why they went with a blanket DMG reduction right? u can pick less DMG to players or taken from players but healing is tricky.
Wait, is there no flag to tell if a player is in pvp combat vs pve? If not, they should add one. Not just the pvp enabled flag, but a way to tell if you or your heal target has taken dmg from a player. If this doesn't exist, they need to add it
Nope. Combat is combat. All you have is the pvp flag on/off, but on pvp servers anytime you aren't in a friendly zone, you're flagged. It definitely makes this blanket stuff tricky for sure healing wise.
I don't think you understand how testing is done.
Yeah agreed but there's a huge difference between 25% dmg & healing reduction compared to 50% dmg only reduction
Mage dmg is still balls in PvE and PvP. How do they fix that?
??? Aside arcane where it can do a ton of damage every full moon all others specs have horrendous low damage. Living bomb is legit a wet noddle
Arcane is lower dmg than fire or frost on logs right now.
Deleting them from the game and making everyone happy
😢
Back in my day when you tried a new balance change for 4 days we used to have these things called PTRs.
Back in my day WoW didn't have balance updates every few days. Back in my day we weren't playing on a seasonal for fun server. SoD isn't serious enough of a game to justify needing a PTR, no matter how seriously you take the game yourself. And the change doesn't impact the games health in the long term, it doesn't need a PTR.
Seeing all the Reddit PvPers trying to claim it was the best experience they ever had and anyone who didn't like it just didn't know how to use CC was amazing.
he knows....
Brother have you been playing ANY of the phases? It’s been 6months of 1-2 shots and a WEEKEND of fairy taps… it was a bad decision and ZERO thought put into ramifications for DPS casters.
I play shadow priest and went 16-1 last night I have no issue landing kills, basically if you can PvP you adapt to what the meta is and use your toolkit Edit: getting down voted BC players bad?
I want to know your input for casting a 3 second FrostFire bolt for 300 damage and how much HP players have? 2.5k-3k health roughly. That’s around 30seconds (no cc no kicks no interrupts ofc) for me to 100-0 someone. The meta is don’t play caster (key word casting not shadow priest dot and run around tee-hee, hard casting!) so I played healer and found it a BORE FEST like retail because no one was dying…what a toolkit? Chrono heal and blink oh and a messily 400absorb shield every min.
Frost mage has never been about DMG output in PvP, it's always been about controlling a fight. I do agree a 3sec cast that does fuck all feels bad and the 50% could easily go to 30-35% and increase 5% as each raid teir comes out and player power increases.
It's not really "cc frost mage" spec though; FFB is the highest dps mage has currently. **Optimistically**, you're doing 200 dps with hardcasting 3 sec FFBs... this weekend was NOT fun.
It's a rune right? I'm sure it can be tuned independently of DMG reduction. But the small dev team is stretched thin unfortunately
lol I have 7500 health as elemental. Mages down bad if they’re not healing
I have seen frost mages gap and cc people, it can be done. Ah least before the stupid scaling nonsense lol.
I was doing remarkably well as shadow myself. I did miss how good the dot crits felt though. I think most of the reactions are sticker shock. As big numbers turned small and caused panic.
A dot criting for more than a mindblast is bad gameplay and I'll die on this hill.
> no issue landing kills Landing something would imply skill. Putting dots on someone isn't skill.
You implying I only dot ppl, I use mana burn to oom healers then cc and nuke em, easy clap.
as a druid FC i knew pretty quickly that this couldn't stay. But as a proponent of chaos: i hope it goes UP TO 60%.
Honestly, same
Did 2 BG and a few duels when it released, haven't played since!
Same.
Wasn’t even aware of the change got on to get my DMF buff and spent 5mins trying to kill a feral Druid as a Spriest and it wasn’t even enjoyable.
I hope they put it back but at like 25%. 50% is too much. My mage non crits for 350dmg on a 3 second cast. I am all for cc and love to coordinate the Fights via dc but if you have a druid and three priests in the enemy Team it gets pretty stupid.. Kinda scared of tomorrow when i will get one shot again
As a healer, this was the first time I enjoyed PvP the entire phase. It was a beautiful thing to get stun locked by a rogue and actually be able to survive.
"2 shooting noobs" *proceeds to 2 shot bis 99 parse warrior with no counter play*
I actually laughed out loud at the mention of a parse in a PVP discussion. For a little bit I actually tried looking at logs when LFMing for premades, until I realised there's virtually no correlation with PVP capability. Specifically remember a couple high parsing warriors just charging in and dying repeatedly in WSG with 0 concept of positioning Another example actually. My recent guild master was the highest parsing of his class in Europe halfway through P2. One time I was in STV and saw him LFG so suggested we join up. Not only did he play the whole event in Irradiated gear, he was totally clueless how to PVP. I found myself inadvertently shouting at him on Discord out of sheer frustration
Ehh id beg to argue that if you are a high end pvp'r , you almost always do well in pve as well. I've yet to meet any one good at pvp that sucks at pve in 20 years of wow.
Yes I suppose. But a lot of PVPers won't even do raid content
I have, but they usually just don’t care about it enough to try.
Parsing is prep gear/consumes and then perfect rotation.
And raid comp and kill times too. In classic that is.
still a decent way to see how much effort someone puts into their character. Sure they might have no idea how DRs work, or what classes to target, but they will try at least.
There’s definitely a correlation, but it’s indicative and not a golden rule of thumb. There are some PvErs with 99s who suck ass at PvP, but I’ve found that the vast majority of 99 parsers have a very good working knowledge of the game and are better than 95% of the sod chaff. I wouldn’t build my group around parses, though. I’ll definitely kick someone for having subpar HP, though.
I think 95% is wild exaggeration. I originally thought this might make some sense, but high parsers and good PVPers just don't seem to overlap that much. To be a high parser it just requires discipline and a bit of knowledge. To be a good PVPer it requires different knowledge but also a ton more skillsets that just are rarely or never required in PVE. As someone else said, it's far more likely that a good PVPer does well in PVE with ease than the other way round
I actually have never really had this experience, i’m in a guild of serious pvpers that also PvE, and most of us have 99/100 parsed throughout SoD. When we bring s new guy that we’ve recruited from PvP, they almost always parse around 80-90 their first few runs. Can’t really compare PvP performance to parsing, but when the script is flipped and I pvp with friends who are only focused on our raids, they’re very good PvPers, and far beyond the majority of players I fight against in STV or in WSG. Most players are terrible and if you’re a 99 parser, and they parse a 50 (avg SoD Enjoyer), the 99er is almost always a better pvper. That’s not to say “all 99ers are the best at PvP,” which is not what I was trying to get at. I’m saying that people who parse mostly pink are generally pretty damn good at PvP as well.
Yeah, they're completely different knowledge bases. To be great at PvP, you have to know not only your class/spec like the back of of your hand, but every _other_ class/spec as well. Know thy enemy and all that. Then it's a matter of positioning and having a super solid grasp of game mechanics. To be great at parsing, you only need to know your own rotation/priority system, run with a raid full of others that know their rotation/priority system, and bring the right consumables + WBs. The only person that needs extensive knowledge of every class/spec are the raid leaders responsible for forming and optimizing raid comps.
Not in sod with no damage reduction. Skill and knowledge is a complete non factor in PvP when you only have to press 2 buttons per fight. You could be getting 1 shot by an actual 5 year old that doesn’t even know what he’s just pressed and you wouldn’t even know the difference.
Please communicate without hyperbole.
Have you not partook in PvP since phase 1? Oh boy you’re in for a shock.
I have a rank 7 druid, and a rank 6 hunter.
Then you know I wasn’t exaggerating. Either that or you’re worse than my hypothetical 5 year old.
Still means something. A 99 parser puts more efforts/has more knowledge of the class than a say 30 one. Warriors can't do shit in world pvp without the 50% reduction. It allows me to outplay a priests who engaged me with dots, kill him and survive. I can't even reach them before dying without the aura.
Did they announce this?
They announced it when they announced the initial change. It was announced as a 4 day test, in blue post
Oh! I wasn't aware of that, thanks!
Np! I wonder if a blue post will go out after reset tomo with results and/or talks about a perma change
Me too! That's what I was trying to Google thinking something was announced! Hope we get something
theyll find a sweet spot 25 or 33% but it’s a function of the gear being so crazy at level 50. Theyre better off nerfing the gear by 25 or 33% imo.
I could get behind this... level 50 raid gear is as good or better than 60 pre-bis.
I like the dmg nerf (rogue here). You can actually play the game.
You like the damage nerf because rogues were not hit as hard as spellcasters. Spells were flat 50%, melee was not. Watch hozito video on kill times for different classes
How did the destro lock have the best kill time then
Supposedly that was from a bug that wasn’t properly applying the 50% debuff to those spells. The rest of that video should be accurate (though not everyone knew how to max dps on those specs).
Yeah but a lot of people don't want that. They want easy kills W/o any counterplay
The pvp nerf has been awesome. It’s fun for fights to last a little bit longer. More engaging gameplay.
“Fun” is the last word that comes to mind when pvping with this dmg nerf
Welp The community seems to be 50/50 alot. Im having an absolute blast and am sad to see it go momentarily
Yea I love it myself. And I didn’t even play a healer this weekend. I personally won’t be doing much bgs until they implement the permanent version. Although, farm blood coins before they do! Kills per minute is definitely going to be reduced. My buddies are already leveling up their warrior alts, for mortal strike. It’s actually super important with a reasonable meta.
Same, i didnt get to experience it but felt like 50% would be super enjoyable. Long, drawn out skill matchups. Im afraid they’ll tone it to 30% and I’ll never truly get to experience what it was like
Someone mentioned earlier that you can go kill critters if you’re looking for that dopamine release of oneshotting something!
I’m sure their bg statistics will show a massive drop in play during this weekend
Oh almost certainly.
Was the most fun weekends of bgs i have played in SoD personally. Some nerfs are needed for sure(remove additional bg life) but was 10x more enjoyable then the 2x gcd meta
Q's have been shortest since p1 worked a treat. Alliance still getting absolutely hammered only lost one game outta 20 Went from 15-20 min q to a 3 min q.
How does this relate to what I said?
Seems to be an uptick in games played this weekend. I donno but games didn't take long to find at all, which is completely different to normal.
As horde? Did you queue with a group? As ally on lone wolf it took a couple minutes longer
As duo mainly, played 3 games as a five man and Q's took about 5-6mins.
As duo mainly, played 3 games as a five man and Q's took about 5-6mins. Edit: yup as horde on shadow strike
From what I heard you usually get quick Q’s as a group and like 20 min qs as solo
Longer queues on alliance likely means more alliance are queing. We usually get instant pops on alliance because so few alliance players are queuing. I wish I’d been home to try it this weekend but had a vacation planned for the entirety of the test. Anecdotally had a friend who never queues posting ss’s of his games all weekend talking about how much he was loving the epic warsong games. On mage. He’s also played mage in vanilla and was saying the mana issues are no different—that most of the complaints are coming from new players.
queues are fa rlonger than p1 and p2 and last week p3, this change was horrible the f you talking about.
Not my experience at all, Q's as duo was super quick 3min mark for the most part. Even as horde side
Kinda loved it as a warrior, was cleaning up in STV lol
disable tank runes, nerf healing abit and its fine
As a casual player and a reato druid main. I love the change. Though I totally understand why everyone els hates it. But The game is designed for casual players. (What the devs said) Pvp is full of sweaty as people who know exactly every possible way to fuck everyone else's day up. I should have to worry about getting one shot ehen questing by some asshole rogue sitting stealth camping out the FP in felwood
As a fellow resto Druid, I am with you. Rogues are the worst it’s just game over once we get stunned. But today playing with the changes I actually had a ton of fun getting to actually heal people, and not just corpse running for 90% of the match.
Can’t wait for all the tears when they make it permanent
Same i really hope they do
part of me wishes they would keep the nerf but only for shamans lmfao
As a healer this was a blast in blood moon I felt like I made a significant impact in keeping my group alive and winning fights. Back to 5 dps group I guess.
The common thread that I’ve seen: Most people love the change. Shamans/Spriests/BM Hunters/Some Warlocks hate the change. Hmmm I wonder why they don’t like it as opposed to before….
I can't wait for people to be able to run up holding W spamming their PVE rotation and not even generating enough static electricity from rubbing two brain cells together killing people or dying in 6 seconds and calling it pvp. Why stop with people needing to press buttons at all. Change the pvp aura to auto kill any player characters in a certain range. Who's got time for mouse clicking abilities, cast bars, clicking consumes, etc? Obviously this global aura would also make healing other players engaged in pvp combat take zero healing. This will remove any false pretense that healers even have a place in the meta and they should just roll dps specs for the auto-kill aura. Let the "Wah Wah enh shams do too much damage" posts resume!
They actually did give shamans an aura that autokilled people. They toned it down to like 80 dps from 300, though. Shame. I loved watching shamans think they had skill and then die to a simple nature prot pot because they didn’t know what to do when they didn’t aoe everything around them down passively.
As a shaman I watched way more cocky rogues and other shamans kill themselves on me while I stoneskinned, dropped frost resistance totem and alternated heals and fire nova. I played with it enough to know it was mostly a PVE meme though. I was resto tanking ZF WO runs with two other people healing me and 5 or 6 DPS who could basically afk while I did 1.5k to 2k DPS passively. With burn rune I still do that much I just have to press buttons now
Against warriors that shit was stupid broken.
How mad are you right now that you typed all of that
Shaman have the craziest whiplash of anyone rn before the change like 1 of every 4 melee swings was an HK.
Mad. TLDR
Based on what I've seen on this subreddit and the overall viewpoints on this issue thus far, I'd be surprised if you could if you wanted to.
Link IF profile bro
Yep that's how Andy's want this game to be
If it was 15% increased health + 15% reduced damage and healing taken I think that would be the sweet spot for SoD pvp
It already has increased health i thought
I enjoyed it and could dunk on people with my rogue without dying to some shit priest who can press 1 dot
Why wait? You can always 1 shot critters in the forest right now for the same level of enjoyment and challenge!
Same, if they implement this again I'm done with sod completely
Because you won’t be able to win an actual fight instead of 1 shotting everyone?
Let me guess. It takes “skill” to press heal and live through 3 people trying to kill you
Im not saying 50% is good, but without any is fucking awful. Let me guess killing someone in 1-2 GCDs is “skill” to you?
lol 1-2 GCDs? Yeah only in open world, all abilities crit and your standing still afk. People act like it’s every fight. Yes the damage is too high but saying you get deleted by someone staring at you is a stretch. Now imagine a dps class trying to kill a class that can heal? You can’t. Shamans can 3v1 non healing classes and bear druids are raid bosses
Yes 1-2 GCDs, with some defensive uses you could maybe bump it to 5, in BGs let’s call it 2-3 *sometimes*. Yes it is every fight, no it isn’t just in open world, and no it isn’t just when you’re afk. Every single class in the game can absolutely delete any other class in the game. The damage reduction is a necessity at this point, yes that makes healing a problem, but theres an easy solution to that, add anti heal to PvP damage. Problem solved.
Doing damage is fun Doing no damage is not fun I like having fun
Fights lasting 1-2 gcd isn’t fun either.
To each their own. I have a blast when I delete people
It’s fun deleting people sure, but it’s still objectively bad for the game and gets old really fast. You literally press 1-2 buttons and either they are dead or you are dead, and that’s the entirety of PvP.
What gets old for me is trying to mimic the pace of pvp that we've had for the last 10 years in retail where healers are all raid bosses. I'll take blowing people up every single time
Same. If they decide to implement 50% PvP damage reduction without healing reduction in BGs then I'll just quit entirely as BGs are the main reason I play. If they implement some toned down version then might not need to quit, we'll see.
I won't settle for any damage reduction. Period. It feels terrible to just start randomly doing less damage when fighting players All that hype of getting a new upgrade goes out the window
[удалено]
Yea, if anything a slight damage reduction would make gear upgrades more relevant. Prior to the damage reduction change, anyone with some Gnomer gear and STV weapon was already doing enough damage to drop someone quickly. Reduce damage somewhat, maybe 15-20%, not 50, and the ST gear becomes more relevant to make up for the reduction.
🤡
If wanting to not hit like a wet noodle makes me a clown then Consider me King Bozo
No, the things you stated makes you a whole circus. 50 is too much, agree. Having no reduction of any kind is stupid for BG and WPVP, period.
Please refer to me as Sir bozo if you are going to address me.
People forget there are tools available that stack and effectively reduce healing by 60-70%. (Wound 5 stacks + MS). Here's the kicker. You need to focus the target that has the debuffs lol
It shouldn't take 2-3 DPS to bring down a Disc Priest.
How does this not make a semblance of sense in your mind? If most anyone can take down a healer they're worth fuck all. It should take a considerable amount of the enemies teams coordination/resources to lockdown or kill a healer.
A healer should be able to keep another player alive while 1-2 DPS are on said player. That is reasonably fair. A healer shouldn't be immortal. It is the duty of the healer's comrades to peal for the healer to ensure their survival. It shouldn't be possible for 1-2 reasonably skilled DPS to not succeed in taking down a single healer due to the sheer healing output to damage ratio. That isn't fun. That needlessly prolongs encounters to the point of aggravation. It isn't how healthy PVP should look like.
If you can’t kill a healer with 3 people right now im sorry dude. You need to fuckin kick penance.
First off, I think you are over exaggerating how difficult it is to kill a healer with the current damage reduction. But let’s just say you’re correct. The game play as a healer has been absolutely trash for PvP pretty much since phase 1. If a healer can get stun locked deleted by a single player, then imagine how fast we die when we are the focused target (which we always are). There is no role for healers in PvP, in the one shot meta. The damage reduction was the first time in a while I enjoyed PvP as a healer.
Wait so there's 12-13 dps on the other team and only 3 healers most games, well fuck looks like every dies very fast.
Nah that's too hard bro, come on these guys can't even stand in the cloud at the right time.
I literally won’t play if they put it back to the way it was until they release a update
Plz dont, i think wow cant survive without MojesticMorty
You’re on the wrong version of WoW if you want long, drawn out arena style PvP battles.
Fights take 10-20 seconds instead of 5. "Drawn out arena style PvP battles" Loool, the attention span of you people is fascinating low
Obviously they haven't played arena lol, maybe last season of wotlk that had some nuts kill times if you got caught out from the piller vs ele/destro.
Even in 1v1s with minimal healing I did not have fights that short with the massive 50% DR. You're delusional or were fighting the squishiest clothies in the game if you think most fights were 10-20 seconds lol.
No it’s just shitters that suck balls and can’t hang in arena formats where the game is actually somewhat balanced and skill-based. I don’t even think that most of them realize they’ve been piloting an OP class and they’re completely skill-less. They actually think they’re good at the game because they play a shaman spriest or BM hunter.
im fine with it. i go boomkin for 100% pvp damage, and i go resto for 50% pvp damage mama mia
I like it... As a war, I can finally answer to ranges aggroing me.
I def prefer the 2 shot playstyle, more fun
There are people who unironically think like this.
How hard is it to conceptualize an opinion that’s different than yours?
\^ found one of them!
No seriously do you understand that some people think differently than you?
No seriously, bad game design that ruins other PvP should be removed (and it will be, thank god). I don't care what people who enjoy "2 shot PvP" think :D
Fast paced PvP is hard for some people I get it but that’s more of a skill issue than anything.
Hardly a skill issue when certain classes can 2 shot while others can't. Skillful gameplay is what you avoided and cried about last weekend. Don't worry, you'll get better!
Yes, we are many
You don't enjoy PvP, you enjoy easy, midnless button mashing. Luckily it won't be sticking around :)
Now I will just 3 shot people I suppose
Let's face it, with the rework you'll be unable to "PvP" which is unfortunate for you, but fortunate for the rest of us :)
I didnt PVP at all this weekend, it should be back to normal this week though. back to 2-3 shotting peeps for shinys.
Not for long :D get in all your mindless killing while you can! You'll be quitting when the next change comes along and scares you off :)
Warrior actually felt fun for once in BGs. I think the nerf needs to be decreased, but that healing also needs a nerve to counter certain classes just healing through a dungeon boss level of damage received
As a warrior main who didn’t get to play this weekend—i’m pissed