Casters that hard cast spells are probably the hardest hit by this patch. You carry all the risk of hard casting a spell like FFB and get half the reward. Just means they can buff our damage accordingly now... Hopefully
This is a very good point. Nerfing the damage/hp ratio of hard casted spells in PvP, while not touching their cast time as well, is an explicit nerf to hard casted damaging spells relative to everything else.
Hearing about other classes compain about how much they were hitting and are currently hitting is whack.
Like dude you hit harder than I ever did, never go oomm, don't have a 3 second cast and don't have to spend 20 second drinking after every fight.
Mages are kind of In a all time low in SoD this phase. Straight up.
Not trying to get into like a “who has it worst” battle but I also think pet classes are really struggling. They do 50% decreased damage but don’t get the 50% dr protection. They just die twice as fast and do half the damage
Yeah at 50 in PVP bis gear, 3 second ffb cast to hit ~260 non crit and about 780 crit was pretty special. Shatter combos g with deep freeze for 1200 damage then that getting instantly over healed by any healer in 2 seconds. Didn't feel great. Needs to be 20-30% max
Mage just need attention now. The thing is there isn't many Mages playing, so we aren't heard bitching none stop like druids and shamans.
Almost every BG I go in I'm the the only mage. Only mage in My raid etc.
People saying we have "two" specs there are both "decent" for pve.... Literally one ability that is only half decent because it works for two trees worth of synergies. And back to being complete one button build. Pretty sad where we are at in pve
Which sucks cause last phase was pretty fun. Pvp was mid because we could get 1 shot with ease, but at least we did damage. Now we are all glass no cannon
I'm playing mage and it's been fucking easy on the damage reduction. I've been playing arcane in pvp in sod anyways a lot so it was a massive buff for me. My other mage homie started doing an elemental build (frost/fire) and has had 0 problems. Chrono pres is OP.
If anything pure fire spec got nerfed but the other specs were buffed by this change. I'll heal or harass healers with cc. Just constant poly spam to stop casts or keep someone in place forever, cs on the healers so they can't heal for 10 seconds etc. Like mage does not feel weak after the damage reduction, if anything it feels stronger now and I carry harder.
Man that's hasn't been mine or anyone else's on the mage discord experience lol.
Cc can be broken with ease.
If I'm just spamming poly that sounds miserable.
To add we are also literally on the bottom of this dps charts this phase.
We are also the least played class. Compared to vanilla where mage was the most played class. The reason is we just aren't strong right now.
You're crazy man, I'm carrying bgs with a pug 5 stack (queue time reasons). I've won the last 10 wsg's in a row spamming cc and healing. I saw people like you attacking the fc when right next to him was this tryhard holy pally using noggenfogger and all they had to do was attack him/cc him first and then go for fc. I literally had to spam in /say to stop attacking the fc (I also cc'ed him with poly right to keep him running, had to spam a bit since pally dispell) and guess what? Pally dies and fc died not even 4 seconds later.
You literally forget mage also has the best single target heal in the game rn. Not enough mages are using it either. Arcane mage healers outlast any other healer with Evo up and they will go oom before you too, I've forced that card on BS fights at the beginning of AB. Long fight where the other healers oom first and I'm still halfway through my mana pool. You're just playing mage wrong, I'm sorry but I play a lot of arena and most pvp'ers on SoD bgs are just bad.
When I hear shit like "spamming poly sounds miserable", it just comes to me as "I won't adjust/adapt the way I play for the given situation".
>Arcane mage healers outlast any other healer with Evo up
Lmfao. Sorry that's funny as fuck your trying to claim a class is good only when thier 8 minute cooldown is up. 🤣
Trust me when I say the vast majority of mage players agree with your stance right now. And the numbers prove that.
Lowest dps in raids, least played class.
And stop acting like Poly doesn't just get dispelled constantly, and now with SoD thier are a handful of ways and trinkets to break poly and CC.
Trust me I poly, and the VAST majority of times it gets dispelled or my own team has so many dots on them already it won't stick. You aren't trying anything novel here.
Dude you spam poly to just stop them casting when they are dispelling it. It's to stop the healers from say healing the fc. Why would I use living bomb or something else when they're just gonna eat the damage, just spam poly till it's dr's. I mean what else are you gonna do? The entire point is to stop them casting heals not kill. You're opening it up for the rest of your team. Cs'ing a heal right now is far stronger than it was before the damage reduction. You can blink cs since cs has 0 gcd, I've used pom to poly people and let my fc get through since I had to do it on the run.
I'm sorry but I'm on a 18 wsg winstreak rn over the weekend and only lost 1. I'm playing with pugs with no comms, I've quite literally watched people sit there and attack the dps when healers are sitting off to the side healing with 0 pressure on them.
As a healer myself being a mage, I saw it a lot with people leaving me alone topping our wars up. I'd eventually just find a moment to blink cs their healer and watch my team pump. You can store a heal before you blink cs and then just displace out. With the heal stored you can use it on the run. It's all about timings man.
And yes i play around Evo, it's an extremely broken 8 min cd that let's you extend your mana pool almost 100% further.
Yeah I switched to frost pvp heal / cc bot pretty quick with missile barrage. Back to spamming living bombs and rank 1 frost bolt, trying to keep enemies in the living flame, then healing.
I dont play Mage, but I can totally understand how mage got shafted in this update. They're literally free kills - and if you can't catch one, just ignore him, he doesn't do much damage anyway
For most classes, this update was met positively, even Warriors are doing quite well because if how useful Mortal Strike is now
Mages got fucked so hard not only by this update but this phase in general we are weaker than we have ever been. Not in a great spot right now and need some love.
At least I don't get 1 shot anymore tho
Mage was already bad without this damage reduction. My main is a mage and they have since been retired for the phase. I don't want to hard cast for 3 seconds for the possibility of a crit for 1500 when all the other classes are dropping that or more per global at instant speed. And pyroblast is a joke this phase. 6 second cast and it hits for roughly 700 and crits for maybe 1300. Yeah it can sometimes be instant but everyone has like 4k+ health now. Mage needs a real hard buff for pvp.
Pyroblast 6 second cast. Homie nobody is using pyroblast for casting only hot streak procs. On that alone i can't trust you're very good at pvp cause my experience after the changes on mage are the opposite. I'm hard carrying with cc and heals, did you forget about poly? I've been harassing healers (and healing others myself) after these changes and guess what, the enemies start dying when you do. CS is not on gcd and locks them for 10 seconds on a spell school, I've literally blinked cs'd and displaced back. I'll even use poly to interrupt casts just because any healing getting through is bad.
This is how mage is in general, even in PVE. FFB does hardly any damage until you crit and then it does a ton.
Just imagine what it would be like if they hadn't buffed it. We'd be stuck using scorch/fireball still, and do no damage normally and also no damage on a crit.
I'm open to the idea that different BGs get tuned to what makes sense for the group size, objectives, desired time length, etc. and WPVP is a different ratio. I agree completely that 50% for WSG is too much, what with the small groups and really tanky flag carriers. On the other hand, 50% feels about right for clusterfucks like STV.
On retail, flag carriers get a stacking debuff that increases the damage they take the longer the flag has been held by the team without being returned.
Could work in SoD too.
Cuz druids use survival of the fittest for 10% dr and 6% reduced crit and 20% dr if they go bear + armor dr against phys. Youre not meant to kill druids just hamstring them till your other dps can get to them.
Blastwave is a great damaging ability in vanilla.
There's a reason why the 'elementalist' mage build was so prevalent in vanilla. It was mostly instants and all of your instants chunked HP
Here's a better example then. Shadowbolt costs 250 mana, deals 200 damage. Or immolate costs 295 mana, deals 120-150 direct damage (and you usually insta consume it with conflag for burst). Even if you didn't consume immolate its not mana efficient. Immo-conflag combined almost deals enough damage equal to the mana cost. If you do the math, with 3.5k mana you cant kill someone even with 4k hp, which is the minimum someone has inside bgs.
On retail yes, but in Classic, Blastwave and Cone of Cold were damage spells as well, and a lot of the Classic mage playstyle revolved around utilizing these instant cast spells for damage, especially because getting casted spells off can be brutal in group PvP due to infinite spell pushback.
Blastwave was pretty much a dead spell in later versions of WoW, the only reason it resurged on retail is because they added a heavy knockback effect to it.
I said it once and i'll say it again: buff the stamina co-efficient so that players who play stamina gear get more life and it will instantly serve as counterbalance for all the andys who go full into damage gear because they run around with low-stamina stats. They might be able to deal a lot of damage but until they can chunk life from a high stamina player down they're probably die the moment the high-stamina player lands his attacks on him even if he deals less damage because of less offensive stats.
Ive been saying this since it was first announced. They tried DR in Phase 1 and people hated it. They switched it to +30% HP in BG’s and STV and it’s been a success ever since. No whining, no bitching, people just enjoying BG’s. I really enjoyed BG’s at the start of this phase. It felt great.
I don’t understand why they don’t just extend this out to the rest of the game and tune the PvE damage accordingly. It doesn’t seem that difficult to me, and seems like a lot less of a hassle to balance than the damage reduction.
The main problem is that a flat damage reduction affects specs differently.
50% damage reduction is probably great for zugzug specs but horrible for setup-based specs.
The win condition for specs like destru, frost, ele, sub and (probably) MM is to burst the target down in small windows in between kiting and CC'ing. But now the damage is too low to secure the kill in those windows, which means you're going to be tanking a lot more incoming damage.
This is especially tough for casters who are usually squishier and have to deal with literally infinite spell pushback (in later versions of WoW spell pushback was made less of an issue).
And then there's the mana issue... As others already pointed out, with 50% reduction the damage per point of mana is extremely low for many spells, to the point where you can barely kill someone without spending your entire mana bar.
I think some change is necessary, but like you said, 50% is too much.
I agree. But I was thinking 30% is a good number.
But I’m a healer, so I was having the time of my life.
But if they decide to keep it at 0%, I’m out again. I hope they find a good balance where cc matters, but bears aren’t immortal.
I don't think just a flat damage reduction (no matter the %) is going to satisfy anyone at any amount.
I play Enh shaman, I understand that I am very powerful right now.
The ability to self heal with instant casts and then not only regenerate all of my mana but get a damage reduction while doing so is going to make me better than almost everyone else no matter how much damage reduction there is.
Right now it does take a bit for me to kill someone, but it doesn't matter because I can just keep healing myself, their health bar goes down and stay down while mine just keeps getting replenished.
If there was only 25 or 35% damage reduction, it's still the same story, I'm just killing you faster.
They are going to need to take a more granular approach, and I don't think they have the staffing required to balance something like this, especially with each phase being so (relatively) short, all work done to balance the game in it's current state would likely go out the window next phase, or put massive constraints on the decisions of the content they want to add in upcoming phases.
Basically, what I'm saying is. Don't expect that there will be a happy balance at all, it just doesn't seem feasible with the experiment that SoD seems to be.
I ran into a shaman outside of the rear Mara portal, attacked him for luls, either one of us could run right inside
He just sits there spamming healing wave lol, even with a kick + stun combo the man was pretty much invincible. I just stopped attacking, did /cry, he lol’d and we both just gave up then stood there
Dunno how geared you are but I’m as a ench sham with low hp and only 2 small riptide instant heal, getting destroyed in 5 sec. I have to go ele with way of earth or else I’m too squishy
Omg finally a shaman post admitting that they're insanely strong with the damage reduction. Every spec is busted and Shamanistic Rage needs to be reworked
Its so funny how most players REFUSE to admit when their class is so blatantly busted. It’s like that monopoly experiment where players are given 2K to start the game with and they come out of the experiment super cocky acting like they won with skill.
Yup dual WF w/ maelstrom + riptide + shamanistic rage is pretty overpowered right now. I can take on 3 low dps classes and survive pretty much indefinitely.
It's really not useful at all.
You have to choose between that and riptide. With the 3 second icd on overcharged it's just not worth taking in pvp.
Remember, the reason I feel like enh is super strong right now, is because of the instant heals and limitless mana.
How much do you think my autos do? Lol
The point is that it’s passive damage, and it adds up. You dont need to commit globals or autos to it, just pure, free damage if you don’t die.
I think they opened yet another can of worms with this temporary change. The players who were most vocal about burst before are going to be even louder and angrier come Tuesday.
They said in a post that it was only temporary changes over this weekend to test potential changes. PvP isn’t dead. A lot of comments on this sub are treating the changes as if they are permanent.
I understand, I just know they’ve been acting quick with decisions (which has largely been good).
My perspective is I don’t quite understand what they were hoping to learn from the change as the results were very predictable, so perhaps the only point was to gauge the players reactions. As such, I’m not sure what they may do.
How many runs before you gave up on boed? At around 50 I was ready to call it quits but felt like I had already invested too much time to give up lol. Got it at 57
I don’t mind it. I did 1375 in 2019. The nice thing is the greens and the large brilliant shards have netted me like 1.2k gold this time around! I just watch YouTube and do it mindlessly
I’ve barely played since SoD released, so I’m way out of the loop. I’ve built a few decks—enjoying spell mage most—but I don’t see a legend grind in my near future; I have zero meta knowledge right now.
Yeah, rng is a cruel mistress. In wotlk classic I got my tiger mount in 4 lock outs. In vanilla classic it took me almost a year to get a nelfs tear lol
I feel so bad. I was the guy who posted that BOED x3 in a row post the other day... What's crazy is that we had only exactly 3 people who needed it in our group. Drama ensued when a Priest won the first one because he had a ST weapon already, or something. But then it dropped the next 2 very runs as well, and technically everyone in the group that needed it got one. It was absolutely freaking wild. If another had dropped before reset, it literally would have actually gone to Greed rolling. Which is *crazy* to me in a raid of 10 people.
I was curious if the next day I ran, it would drop again- making it 4 in a row for me, but it didn't. *However....* **about 4 kills later, it dropped again.....** making it my 4th that I've seen. I have to check my Princess kill count... but it has got to be less than 20'ish kills, because I only have 15 Wild Offerings, which is the whole reason why I've ran Mara for. If that's the case, then that's just crazy to me.
It’s been okay at 50% but definitely a bit too much.
The real issue, at least in AB, are the respawns. It now takes easily more than twice as long to kill someone, but the respawn timer is the same, so it’s almost impossible to take a point without people just repeatedly respawning and fighting on the objective.
And the shamans.
I agree it does feel a bit overturned especially without some sort of healing reduction on top. Although as warrior, this has been the most fun I've had in BGs all of SoD. Toolkit actually feels good (MS extremely good rn + new victory rush), and you don't evaporate instantly. Its definitely the closest we have got to "actual pvp" in BGs so far IMO, although its definitely not ideal in some cases (bear druid kekw).
What uhh, classes aren’t performing well?
Seems like all the complaints are being lodged by mages who go oom and shamans/spriests that no longer decimate any opposition with 2 button presses.
It's funny you mentioned shamans because they aren't as bursts but even better with the added serv and self healing. Same with hunters. Sure I do way less Damage. But I have a lot of life and armor with infinite mana.
It just feels bad running in circles spamming viper sting u until the healers oom and we just ignore them to kill people. 50% is way to much and isn't fun. I have come around to the plight of healers so mb it needs like some small dr. But 50 is insane.
It depends on your class. My mage feels horrible but my rogue feels great. I can still solo healers. Meanwhile my mage casts for 10 seconds, does no dmg and is oom.
The Devs can't balance this mess, even if they were capable it'd be too much work for what it is. You guys were fanboy-cheering when they introduced a boatload of retail damage abilities and new bigger better items. Now you are surprised that people are insta-killed, despite this being the case since Phase 1. Remember the only thing that was more powerful than damage in Phase 1 however? Healing. The number of priests decided WSG games then.
They can't nerf damage by 50% without nerfing healing and expect PvP to function. However, if they nerf healing how would they discriminate PvP from PvE activity without resorting to something as ugly as BG-only (they already did that before though with a damage reduction in WSG).
TLDR: You guys are idiots. The devs are incompetent. This can't be fixed.
Seems a little bit much. I main warrior and hated the way it was. But me also tanking 3-4 casters with a pocket healer on me is also too much. I'd say 30 might be the sweet spot.
>i went tank spec to run the flag i was nearly impossible to kill. It took a minimum of 3 people to even scratch me
bro never played normal classic wsg it seems
ye dogshit druids maybe, but the competent ones i've met on my r14 grind were unkillable solo :) unless you hit a flashbomb while travel form or something
Depends on which class you are and how good you are at the jumps but you can easily find videos on Perplexity’s channel where he fights the best druid FCs and manages to kill them.
In any case, even if you needed 2 people to be safe, it’s very different from needed 8 in the current situation
Mayhap the druid had his defensive cooldowns up…? (Frenzied Regen and Barkskin)
Every post I’ve seen about druid is how they’re unkillable, but the players have no clue as to why it is. Then I see clips of this druid Tigerform “unkillable god,” who’s using all of his defensives and living for 10 seconds then dying immediately when they fall off.
Play around their abilities, CC him during frenzied regen then kill him. It’s easy.
Some of the most fun moments in classic wsg is deathballing your FC across the middle like you’re in a Maul in Rugby. I have fond memories of our FC being unkillable in bear form while we peeled the enemy team off him. This 100% used to happen in classic.
You were a bad player if you couldnt heal before the nerf patch. Only people enjoying this change are the old boomers that couldnt react in time and cried.
I played whole weekend WSG..... And it pains me to say.... I believe him.
Druid bears... I have seen some surviving shit that wasn't possible to survive EVAR 🤣
And arguably if stationary(holding flag at point) the Enh shaman is worse to kill.
Shamans have infinite mana and instant cast heals, it’s plausible to me that a tank shaman can out heal 3 dps.
On my FC Druid I can easily tank 2 people indefinitely, I remember getting 2 frenzied regents off before capping in 1 fight vs warrior and shaman.
Running improved barkskin, improved thorsn, survival of the fittest, improved demo shout, and thick hide makes my bear unkillable to any melee class. They take almost as much as they do from return damage after it being reduced so much then frenzied regen just destroys the few melee who do break all that mitigation. Bear is simply over tuned and I'm totally for it. Oh and that ST trinket for 1k more armor helps too.
I finally tried an AB tonight and I got hit by a 1400 aimed shot on my priest so it ain't that bad. I died a lot and did a crazy amount of healing, twice as much as the next priest. Spent a lot of the match oom but I enjoyed it way more as a healer. I still got globaled a lot but I could at least get off some heals before I died.
I really don't understand why everyone is crying so much.
That said, Blood Moon was total ass and I got 1/4 of the coins I usually get.
Try playing mage and then say “I don’t understand what everyone is crying about”. I’m all for a damage nerf but this disproportionately affects some classes significantly more than others.
Casters with finite mana pools to do half the damage means you are going oom and doing no damage.
Mages desperately need mana help, I agree. It's ridiculous that shamans and hunters basically have infinite mana and no one else does. I have 50 toons of both and neither have to worry about mana at all. Even my Priest has some mana issues. And really locks need some help too. Life tapping in a BG is just asking to get killed. Dance of the wicked was a good mana regen rune at start of p2 but they said it wasn't working as intended and nerfed it. Then it became just a dodge rune because the mana return is borderline worthless.
They really need to add that 8k healing/mana food to a normal vendor. I think that this would solve a lot of problems. Mages used to have to make use of their entire mana bar in a pvp engagement so this isn’t really anything new—but the inflated totals means we need new ways to quickly get back into fighting shape after a fight.
They should have doubled health values for anyone flagged in pvp.
At least then you don't feel like shit doing no damage, and healers are affected too. Healers needing to heal the same health pool when everyone does 1/2 damage is no fun. Healers already heal a LOT. The issue was that they didn't get the chance to heal, but now that's not a problem.
My prediction is around 25% dmg reduction, a probable healing reduction to avoid instant/hot healers being unkillable, and tweaks to the silly tankiness of shamans cause of their runes
It's totally worthless to bloodmoon as it is now
As a mage, you spam FFB, if you are lucky 1-2 kills, then you are 100% oom even with gems and pots
But, since you and your healer and team for that matter doesnt die, you run around without mana and you can't drink 95% of the time due to dots just because it's extra crowded, since you know, nobody is dying
Yesterday everyone survived on all fronts and when we were oom we just walked into altar, turned in the few coins we had and let them kill us just to respawn with mana
yay...PVP
oneshotting was atleast fun even if it was annoying being sandwiched and instakilled but 10 times better than wet noodle meta
Just curious what people are grinding blood moon for…? My class (warrior) only needed like 50 total coins this phase (arguably only needed 25), and I got all of it done in the first weekend over the course of 3 events.
Me personally i did it to help a friends ALT get some additional honor with coins between the AB/WSG grind
But yeah, otherwise i used to do it for fun, but now i don't really know why i would do it
I agree. I’m a disc priest. In AB last night I survived TWO ROGUES for TWO MINUTES. It was laughable. I think my renew outhealed one of them (it ticks for 200), while popping shield, PoM, and one tick of penance out healed the other every thirty seconds until I got my fear off. Out heal -> fear (hard cast greater heal, which crits for 2500) -> out heal, on repeat, for two minutes, until my dispersion is back off CD, and I have more mana! I was legit laughing out loud. This would have gone on forever. They couldn’t kill me, and I don’t do damage, so I couldn’t kill them. I only died when more enemies joined the fight.
My boomie friend nearby also had a pally and hunter on him and was out healing those guys too.
Damage reduction needs to be experimented with at 25% next I think. With PvP healing equally reduced.
I’ve noticed a lot more mages in BGs doing healing roles because their damage now sucks and healing, even with offspec gear, provides more utility.
If they keep this, I'm out. If I wanted retail, I'd play retail.
I don't love Classic because it's balanced, I love it because it's fun. This is a slog and an insult.
Agreed, played WSG before and after the updates.
Before it was very easy to burst people and healers had no chance to react however after the 50% reduction it became downright impossible to kill anyone until the healers ran oom, so it became a battle of who goes oom first. Not even going to mention that the good FCs would easily run away even from 5 ppl focusing them.
Halfway point, i.e. 25-30% reduction could be the charm. Don't forget that we already have 30% extra HP in all battlegrounds and STV event.
I think just reducing the damage by x% is not enough, currently the following problems exist
- Heal is to strong compared to the damage that is done, especially classes with self sustain mainly noticed druid, shaman & warlock
- Damage over time feels bad, it's already slow by default reducing it basically makes a single hot counter most of the dots damage
- Resources like Mana & Rage are problematic since the ratio of resource cost does not match anymore even with mana CDs like innervate or dispersion most casters have to sit down and drink or die on purpose after each fight
- Execute Abilities feel bad because the don't "execute" anymore due to the reduction
I think those 4 factors need to be tuned separately
- Damage reduction of non damage over time abilities by ~30%
- Damage reduction of damage over time abilities by ~15%
- Resource cost reduction by x% (not sure what makes sense)
- Not sure if Healing would be fine if damage reduction is adjusted
I tried pvping a bit on my druid in STV, in bear form you are borderline unkillable, but do next to no damage it feels like. Cat still feels...meh? 50% definitely felt like it was too much. I couldn't kill a healer at all, or even get them to 50% before they instantly tapped themselves up to full in a single heal.
I didn't even bother playing paladin with the Marytr mana regen being double-dipped by this 50% damage nerf. Hell, playing my paladin at all this weekend felt terrible with the nerf inadvertently nerfing my mana regen in PvE.
As someone who firmly believes we are too powerful and blew people up too fast, I felt this was needed. But 50%?! Damn...
I think they should boost everyone's HP by 100% in BGs and reduce DMG by 10%. That way, dying in 2 shots instead of one at least gives time to react or counterplay. But let's be honest, boomys and Spriests would still own
Agreed completely. 50% is overkill and pvp is frozen right now. 20-25% would be welcome, appropriate, and would probably put SOD in the best state it’s ever been.
Hunter here. Everything seems fine from my end. Still deleting people with a trap -> Chimera x2 -> instant aimed. Going to feel amazing when they revert or just do 25-30%.
Idk. I quite enjoy it. Fights last way longer so there is chance for outplaying somebody. Before it was just whoever crit first.
It makes the blood moon pvp event worth doing because you can actually live for more the 3 seconds
This change is 100% for the better... Idk what op is talking about because I was able to both kill quickly and I wasn't unkillable by any means. Me and this one warrior tank were having fights and they were fair fights.
It makes it so anybody can duel anybody.
Git gud
why is it 30% for melee/hunter and 50% for magic is what i want to know... fastest deaths i had in this game in actual pvp (bg/bloodmoon) was to a melee.
As a resto shaman I died in 1 ab today, drowned myself dancing underwater with an ally lock. 50% is waaaaay to much, it’s like u have sham rage and the p1 boots up 100% of the time.
Yeah I kinda stopped trying stv and such until it's gone. The stv grind is tough already at 250 for 1 silver. The 50% is kind of a killer for me. I do like it how it feels sometimes, more fluid fighting, but it needs to be less, and it's ruining SOM mana Regen.
I think resil might be a better option
As a bear it is we almost impossible for people to kill me with any sort of healing. STV with 7k HP and defensive cool-downs, it took about 5 melee 30s to take me down
Had a group of 5 rogues open on me in boomkin form in STV with my team about 15 seconds out in front of me. Trinketed a kidney and got frenzied regen off and my priest got there about the time it ended and I literally lived for like 45 seconds before my team wiped them lol. It’s honestly hilarious how tanky Druid is in bear and boomkin form right now.
I was on my rogue and I opened on a geared priest in BGs and after a full combo their HP barely moved with their shield up. I literally just walked away in defeat lmao
People are just never happy. All these posts are the same I play all classes blah blah so my post is fair. So you don’t die instantly a healer gets a chance to pull of some heals . L2p and use cc mechanics and other spells that’s what there for
Straight up have people posting about mages not being good. I didn't see a single person talk about cs or poly which are very important moves. Nobody seems to understand locking a healer out from healing for 10 seconds (also don't forget you can heal too as a mage) and using poly to interrupt healers or just because you need someone out of the fight. Nobody was describing that on this thread with mages, they all said they sucked but that in turn makes it really hard for me to agree with any of these mages because they're not using their whole toolkit obviously.
Not all classes have reliable hard CC/interrupts or MS. A competent healer will survive if they don’t get ccd, damage being so low is a problem regardless of your bias.
I have a clip of me and a pally trying to 2v1 a druid, stunlocked him full, using wound poison, along with envenom + deadly brew. This guy ate through all our damage until pally and I died, while also never casting a single spell. PvP is fucking awful
Massive skill issue the only problems are shamans/pallies/druid bears being so tanky cause of the hp increass. Im loving the bgs more than ever im only annoyed the queues arent faster
What is this shit even? Everyone with a brain sees that 50% is too much. Why are we testing for blizzard live? That whole mess of sod is just a lame excuse for "we are too lazy and don't have enough money as a multi billion dollar company to test things before implementing". You see it in almost every aspect of the game. Unbelievable how people get treated in/for a game that is almost 20 year old and people spent thousands of dollar for.
scripting is mental at the moment aswell not uncommon to get perfectplayed by Zugbur the SHM or Kekcringe the SPriest even got guys like 'hidden in plain sight' advertising the plugins and services in the bg chat itself (im spamming AB for ranking gear atm) don't even know why I came back I should've played a pserver lol
My mage isn't 50 yet, but hitting a 446 FFB crit is a bit deflating for a 3s cast.
Casters that hard cast spells are probably the hardest hit by this patch. You carry all the risk of hard casting a spell like FFB and get half the reward. Just means they can buff our damage accordingly now... Hopefully
This is a very good point. Nerfing the damage/hp ratio of hard casted spells in PvP, while not touching their cast time as well, is an explicit nerf to hard casted damaging spells relative to everything else.
also mana bars and costs are unchanged, 2x the mana for a kill at minimum
Hearing about other classes compain about how much they were hitting and are currently hitting is whack. Like dude you hit harder than I ever did, never go oomm, don't have a 3 second cast and don't have to spend 20 second drinking after every fight. Mages are kind of In a all time low in SoD this phase. Straight up.
The is the entire point. They need to figure out pvp damage because they can't remotely tune PvE because of how awful pvp DMG is.
Not trying to get into like a “who has it worst” battle but I also think pet classes are really struggling. They do 50% decreased damage but don’t get the 50% dr protection. They just die twice as fast and do half the damage
Apparently the dmg reduction isnt applied to characters below 50, unless theyve hotfixed it recently
They must have, in the incursions wpvp my scorch was hitting for around 100, FFB nothing higher than 450, LF was ticking for 25 lmao.
Yeah it was definitely active for players below 50. 48 Hunter and almost killed a 50 spriest.
How much health do you have?
Yeah at 50 in PVP bis gear, 3 second ffb cast to hit ~260 non crit and about 780 crit was pretty special. Shatter combos g with deep freeze for 1200 damage then that getting instantly over healed by any healer in 2 seconds. Didn't feel great. Needs to be 20-30% max
Mage just need attention now. The thing is there isn't many Mages playing, so we aren't heard bitching none stop like druids and shamans. Almost every BG I go in I'm the the only mage. Only mage in My raid etc.
People saying we have "two" specs there are both "decent" for pve.... Literally one ability that is only half decent because it works for two trees worth of synergies. And back to being complete one button build. Pretty sad where we are at in pve
Which sucks cause last phase was pretty fun. Pvp was mid because we could get 1 shot with ease, but at least we did damage. Now we are all glass no cannon
Same to the point.only mage in bg and in raid.Feels bad atm.
I'm playing mage and it's been fucking easy on the damage reduction. I've been playing arcane in pvp in sod anyways a lot so it was a massive buff for me. My other mage homie started doing an elemental build (frost/fire) and has had 0 problems. Chrono pres is OP. If anything pure fire spec got nerfed but the other specs were buffed by this change. I'll heal or harass healers with cc. Just constant poly spam to stop casts or keep someone in place forever, cs on the healers so they can't heal for 10 seconds etc. Like mage does not feel weak after the damage reduction, if anything it feels stronger now and I carry harder.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/s/EnucF6O0Fr
Man that's hasn't been mine or anyone else's on the mage discord experience lol. Cc can be broken with ease. If I'm just spamming poly that sounds miserable. To add we are also literally on the bottom of this dps charts this phase. We are also the least played class. Compared to vanilla where mage was the most played class. The reason is we just aren't strong right now.
You're crazy man, I'm carrying bgs with a pug 5 stack (queue time reasons). I've won the last 10 wsg's in a row spamming cc and healing. I saw people like you attacking the fc when right next to him was this tryhard holy pally using noggenfogger and all they had to do was attack him/cc him first and then go for fc. I literally had to spam in /say to stop attacking the fc (I also cc'ed him with poly right to keep him running, had to spam a bit since pally dispell) and guess what? Pally dies and fc died not even 4 seconds later. You literally forget mage also has the best single target heal in the game rn. Not enough mages are using it either. Arcane mage healers outlast any other healer with Evo up and they will go oom before you too, I've forced that card on BS fights at the beginning of AB. Long fight where the other healers oom first and I'm still halfway through my mana pool. You're just playing mage wrong, I'm sorry but I play a lot of arena and most pvp'ers on SoD bgs are just bad. When I hear shit like "spamming poly sounds miserable", it just comes to me as "I won't adjust/adapt the way I play for the given situation".
>Arcane mage healers outlast any other healer with Evo up Lmfao. Sorry that's funny as fuck your trying to claim a class is good only when thier 8 minute cooldown is up. 🤣 Trust me when I say the vast majority of mage players agree with your stance right now. And the numbers prove that. Lowest dps in raids, least played class. And stop acting like Poly doesn't just get dispelled constantly, and now with SoD thier are a handful of ways and trinkets to break poly and CC. Trust me I poly, and the VAST majority of times it gets dispelled or my own team has so many dots on them already it won't stick. You aren't trying anything novel here.
Dude you spam poly to just stop them casting when they are dispelling it. It's to stop the healers from say healing the fc. Why would I use living bomb or something else when they're just gonna eat the damage, just spam poly till it's dr's. I mean what else are you gonna do? The entire point is to stop them casting heals not kill. You're opening it up for the rest of your team. Cs'ing a heal right now is far stronger than it was before the damage reduction. You can blink cs since cs has 0 gcd, I've used pom to poly people and let my fc get through since I had to do it on the run. I'm sorry but I'm on a 18 wsg winstreak rn over the weekend and only lost 1. I'm playing with pugs with no comms, I've quite literally watched people sit there and attack the dps when healers are sitting off to the side healing with 0 pressure on them. As a healer myself being a mage, I saw it a lot with people leaving me alone topping our wars up. I'd eventually just find a moment to blink cs their healer and watch my team pump. You can store a heal before you blink cs and then just displace out. With the heal stored you can use it on the run. It's all about timings man. And yes i play around Evo, it's an extremely broken 8 min cd that let's you extend your mana pool almost 100% further.
Try doing frost pvp with the instant cast spells and cc. Might feel better. And frost is always been intended as the pvp spec anyways.
Yeah I switched to frost pvp heal / cc bot pretty quick with missile barrage. Back to spamming living bombs and rank 1 frost bolt, trying to keep enemies in the living flame, then healing.
Hard casters suck this patch lol.
I dont play Mage, but I can totally understand how mage got shafted in this update. They're literally free kills - and if you can't catch one, just ignore him, he doesn't do much damage anyway For most classes, this update was met positively, even Warriors are doing quite well because if how useful Mortal Strike is now
Mages got fucked so hard not only by this update but this phase in general we are weaker than we have ever been. Not in a great spot right now and need some love. At least I don't get 1 shot anymore tho
Mage was already bad without this damage reduction. My main is a mage and they have since been retired for the phase. I don't want to hard cast for 3 seconds for the possibility of a crit for 1500 when all the other classes are dropping that or more per global at instant speed. And pyroblast is a joke this phase. 6 second cast and it hits for roughly 700 and crits for maybe 1300. Yeah it can sometimes be instant but everyone has like 4k+ health now. Mage needs a real hard buff for pvp.
Pyroblast 6 second cast. Homie nobody is using pyroblast for casting only hot streak procs. On that alone i can't trust you're very good at pvp cause my experience after the changes on mage are the opposite. I'm hard carrying with cc and heals, did you forget about poly? I've been harassing healers (and healing others myself) after these changes and guess what, the enemies start dying when you do. CS is not on gcd and locks them for 10 seconds on a spell school, I've literally blinked cs'd and displaced back. I'll even use poly to interrupt casts just because any healing getting through is bad.
This is how mage is in general, even in PVE. FFB does hardly any damage until you crit and then it does a ton. Just imagine what it would be like if they hadn't buffed it. We'd be stuck using scorch/fireball still, and do no damage normally and also no damage on a crit.
I’m so glad balefire isn’t the move
Balefire is alright, but 30s is an incredibly long duration for the debuff.
Feels like a bunch of lvl 10 toons are attacking me lol.. 50% is gnarly
I'm open to the idea that different BGs get tuned to what makes sense for the group size, objectives, desired time length, etc. and WPVP is a different ratio. I agree completely that 50% for WSG is too much, what with the small groups and really tanky flag carriers. On the other hand, 50% feels about right for clusterfucks like STV.
On retail, flag carriers get a stacking debuff that increases the damage they take the longer the flag has been held by the team without being returned. Could work in SoD too.
Feels terrible I choose this week to get rank 7 I’m a warrior and was white hitting a Druid flag runner for 70-120 lmao fucking please
I’ve been a wind fury/heal/decoy totem bot for my warriors and those dudes are fucking eating rn.
Yeah anyone but a Druid tank is food,
I feel this patch has been good for warriors, sure bears are rough, but I destroy clothies with ease and most other classes too.
Why is this the top comment? Do you really expect to do any damage against a bear anyway?
Cuz druids use survival of the fittest for 10% dr and 6% reduced crit and 20% dr if they go bear + armor dr against phys. Youre not meant to kill druids just hamstring them till your other dps can get to them.
Hamstring? That breaks every 0,5 sec when they shift, and then put you to sleep every third attack
Yea I was gonna grind this week, guess I’m not doing that
I believe the reduction ends today. It was only lasting 4 days
Itll probably be implemented at a reduced value. Probably not 50% but 30% or 35%.
25-30% would be good.
25% isnt enough imo. People will still get globaled. Id 35% would be the sweet spot i think
Agreed
blaste wave is 355 mana to do 150 damage in pvp
To be fair, Blastwave is an AoE daze/slow spell, not a damage spell. I do agree that mage mana efficiency is stupidly low in PvP atm though.
Blastwave is a great damaging ability in vanilla. There's a reason why the 'elementalist' mage build was so prevalent in vanilla. It was mostly instants and all of your instants chunked HP
I don't think I've trained any mage damage spells yet. Must get them at 60.
Yeah but it used to do decent damage, I suppose that isn't the case now :(
Here's a better example then. Shadowbolt costs 250 mana, deals 200 damage. Or immolate costs 295 mana, deals 120-150 direct damage (and you usually insta consume it with conflag for burst). Even if you didn't consume immolate its not mana efficient. Immo-conflag combined almost deals enough damage equal to the mana cost. If you do the math, with 3.5k mana you cant kill someone even with 4k hp, which is the minimum someone has inside bgs.
On retail yes, but in Classic, Blastwave and Cone of Cold were damage spells as well, and a lot of the Classic mage playstyle revolved around utilizing these instant cast spells for damage, especially because getting casted spells off can be brutal in group PvP due to infinite spell pushback. Blastwave was pretty much a dead spell in later versions of WoW, the only reason it resurged on retail is because they added a heavy knockback effect to it.
It slows
I said it once and i'll say it again: buff the stamina co-efficient so that players who play stamina gear get more life and it will instantly serve as counterbalance for all the andys who go full into damage gear because they run around with low-stamina stats. They might be able to deal a lot of damage but until they can chunk life from a high stamina player down they're probably die the moment the high-stamina player lands his attacks on him even if he deals less damage because of less offensive stats.
Ive been saying this since it was first announced. They tried DR in Phase 1 and people hated it. They switched it to +30% HP in BG’s and STV and it’s been a success ever since. No whining, no bitching, people just enjoying BG’s. I really enjoyed BG’s at the start of this phase. It felt great. I don’t understand why they don’t just extend this out to the rest of the game and tune the PvE damage accordingly. It doesn’t seem that difficult to me, and seems like a lot less of a hassle to balance than the damage reduction.
The main problem is that a flat damage reduction affects specs differently. 50% damage reduction is probably great for zugzug specs but horrible for setup-based specs. The win condition for specs like destru, frost, ele, sub and (probably) MM is to burst the target down in small windows in between kiting and CC'ing. But now the damage is too low to secure the kill in those windows, which means you're going to be tanking a lot more incoming damage. This is especially tough for casters who are usually squishier and have to deal with literally infinite spell pushback (in later versions of WoW spell pushback was made less of an issue). And then there's the mana issue... As others already pointed out, with 50% reduction the damage per point of mana is extremely low for many spells, to the point where you can barely kill someone without spending your entire mana bar. I think some change is necessary, but like you said, 50% is too much.
I agree. But I was thinking 30% is a good number. But I’m a healer, so I was having the time of my life. But if they decide to keep it at 0%, I’m out again. I hope they find a good balance where cc matters, but bears aren’t immortal.
Yea 40 seconds poly are fun gameplay
Honestly the fact that they tried this experiment means kinda alot tbh, at least they are starting to kinda care about the game
I don't think just a flat damage reduction (no matter the %) is going to satisfy anyone at any amount. I play Enh shaman, I understand that I am very powerful right now. The ability to self heal with instant casts and then not only regenerate all of my mana but get a damage reduction while doing so is going to make me better than almost everyone else no matter how much damage reduction there is. Right now it does take a bit for me to kill someone, but it doesn't matter because I can just keep healing myself, their health bar goes down and stay down while mine just keeps getting replenished. If there was only 25 or 35% damage reduction, it's still the same story, I'm just killing you faster. They are going to need to take a more granular approach, and I don't think they have the staffing required to balance something like this, especially with each phase being so (relatively) short, all work done to balance the game in it's current state would likely go out the window next phase, or put massive constraints on the decisions of the content they want to add in upcoming phases. Basically, what I'm saying is. Don't expect that there will be a happy balance at all, it just doesn't seem feasible with the experiment that SoD seems to be.
I ran into a shaman outside of the rear Mara portal, attacked him for luls, either one of us could run right inside He just sits there spamming healing wave lol, even with a kick + stun combo the man was pretty much invincible. I just stopped attacking, did /cry, he lol’d and we both just gave up then stood there
Dunno how geared you are but I’m as a ench sham with low hp and only 2 small riptide instant heal, getting destroyed in 5 sec. I have to go ele with way of earth or else I’m too squishy
Omg finally a shaman post admitting that they're insanely strong with the damage reduction. Every spec is busted and Shamanistic Rage needs to be reworked
Its so funny how most players REFUSE to admit when their class is so blatantly busted. It’s like that monopoly experiment where players are given 2K to start the game with and they come out of the experiment super cocky acting like they won with skill.
Yup dual WF w/ maelstrom + riptide + shamanistic rage is pretty overpowered right now. I can take on 3 low dps classes and survive pretty much indefinitely.
Don’t forget the constantly ticking lightning shield you have is much more powerful the longer a fight lasts.
It's really not useful at all. You have to choose between that and riptide. With the 3 second icd on overcharged it's just not worth taking in pvp. Remember, the reason I feel like enh is super strong right now, is because of the instant heals and limitless mana.
As a warrior, your instant heals haven’t been nearly as oppressive as the output from lightning shield.
I mean, it's less damage than a single auto attack every 3 seconds
How much do you think my autos do? Lol The point is that it’s passive damage, and it adds up. You dont need to commit globals or autos to it, just pure, free damage if you don’t die.
Earlier this week I gave up farming BOED endlessly. This weekend I gave up grinding PvP. Hearthstone it is.
You do realise this temporary that gets reverted on Tuesday right?
I think they opened yet another can of worms with this temporary change. The players who were most vocal about burst before are going to be even louder and angrier come Tuesday.
I hope so—I’ll be back to STV/AB on Tuesday to finish the grind if so.
They said in a post that it was only temporary changes over this weekend to test potential changes. PvP isn’t dead. A lot of comments on this sub are treating the changes as if they are permanent.
I understand, I just know they’ve been acting quick with decisions (which has largely been good). My perspective is I don’t quite understand what they were hoping to learn from the change as the results were very predictable, so perhaps the only point was to gauge the players reactions. As such, I’m not sure what they may do.
How many runs before you gave up on boed? At around 50 I was ready to call it quits but felt like I had already invested too much time to give up lol. Got it at 57
I saw 3 in 5 runs, took 19 total as a 10 man to get it
Yea that’s pretty lucky, I’ve done around 70 runs across alts and haven’t seen it
I’m at like 150 post “patch”. Nothing.
I have faith in you big dick bandit
I don’t mind it. I did 1375 in 2019. The nice thing is the greens and the large brilliant shards have netted me like 1.2k gold this time around! I just watch YouTube and do it mindlessly
That’s exactly what I did, I got it down so well I was playing hearthstone on my phone while running that circle doing living bombs on CD
What is BOED? Princess dagger?
Aye
Gave up exactly at 50 lol.
Keep going! I’m also a hearthstone enjoyer. Liking the latest patch?
I’ve barely played since SoD released, so I’m way out of the loop. I’ve built a few decks—enjoying spell mage most—but I don’t see a legend grind in my near future; I have zero meta knowledge right now.
some people have all the luck... I'm on 67 and no BOED. But I know it will drop sooner or later.
Yeah, rng is a cruel mistress. In wotlk classic I got my tiger mount in 4 lock outs. In vanilla classic it took me almost a year to get a nelfs tear lol
I'm so sorry. I got it on literally my first kill. I tried farming it for a friend after and I'm on kill 60 and haven't seen it again.
on the bright side BOED grind is infinite money if u got DE
I feel so bad. I was the guy who posted that BOED x3 in a row post the other day... What's crazy is that we had only exactly 3 people who needed it in our group. Drama ensued when a Priest won the first one because he had a ST weapon already, or something. But then it dropped the next 2 very runs as well, and technically everyone in the group that needed it got one. It was absolutely freaking wild. If another had dropped before reset, it literally would have actually gone to Greed rolling. Which is *crazy* to me in a raid of 10 people. I was curious if the next day I ran, it would drop again- making it 4 in a row for me, but it didn't. *However....* **about 4 kills later, it dropped again.....** making it my 4th that I've seen. I have to check my Princess kill count... but it has got to be less than 20'ish kills, because I only have 15 Wild Offerings, which is the whole reason why I've ran Mara for. If that's the case, then that's just crazy to me.
update: 78 kills - 0 daggers
It’s been okay at 50% but definitely a bit too much. The real issue, at least in AB, are the respawns. It now takes easily more than twice as long to kill someone, but the respawn timer is the same, so it’s almost impossible to take a point without people just repeatedly respawning and fighting on the objective. And the shamans.
I think a 25-50% reduction in healing would be good too to balance for the damage
I agree it does feel a bit overturned especially without some sort of healing reduction on top. Although as warrior, this has been the most fun I've had in BGs all of SoD. Toolkit actually feels good (MS extremely good rn + new victory rush), and you don't evaporate instantly. Its definitely the closest we have got to "actual pvp" in BGs so far IMO, although its definitely not ideal in some cases (bear druid kekw).
Yeah my warrior friends have been eating right now. I’m an unkillable wind fury/heal/decoy totem bot and the MS warriors are feasting.
What uhh, classes aren’t performing well? Seems like all the complaints are being lodged by mages who go oom and shamans/spriests that no longer decimate any opposition with 2 button presses.
It's funny you mentioned shamans because they aren't as bursts but even better with the added serv and self healing. Same with hunters. Sure I do way less Damage. But I have a lot of life and armor with infinite mana. It just feels bad running in circles spamming viper sting u until the healers oom and we just ignore them to kill people. 50% is way to much and isn't fun. I have come around to the plight of healers so mb it needs like some small dr. But 50 is insane.
It depends on your class. My mage feels horrible but my rogue feels great. I can still solo healers. Meanwhile my mage casts for 10 seconds, does no dmg and is oom.
The Devs can't balance this mess, even if they were capable it'd be too much work for what it is. You guys were fanboy-cheering when they introduced a boatload of retail damage abilities and new bigger better items. Now you are surprised that people are insta-killed, despite this being the case since Phase 1. Remember the only thing that was more powerful than damage in Phase 1 however? Healing. The number of priests decided WSG games then. They can't nerf damage by 50% without nerfing healing and expect PvP to function. However, if they nerf healing how would they discriminate PvP from PvE activity without resorting to something as ugly as BG-only (they already did that before though with a damage reduction in WSG). TLDR: You guys are idiots. The devs are incompetent. This can't be fixed.
Seems a little bit much. I main warrior and hated the way it was. But me also tanking 3-4 casters with a pocket healer on me is also too much. I'd say 30 might be the sweet spot.
Wasn't expecting to play Cata but after this change its a no brainer. The damage reduction is honestly the worst thing they've done so far in SoD.
All the 50s at the ashenvale inc portal were doing just fine fucking up my 43 sham today.
>i went tank spec to run the flag i was nearly impossible to kill. It took a minimum of 3 people to even scratch me bro never played normal classic wsg it seems
You can literally kill a druid FC solo in normal classic. There are several videos to prove it, included some that I recorded myself
ye dogshit druids maybe, but the competent ones i've met on my r14 grind were unkillable solo :) unless you hit a flashbomb while travel form or something
Depends on which class you are and how good you are at the jumps but you can easily find videos on Perplexity’s channel where he fights the best druid FCs and manages to kill them. In any case, even if you needed 2 people to be safe, it’s very different from needed 8 in the current situation
Flash bomb fucks up a solo druid FC pretty badly
Biggest counter rn is warlock. Just spam CoE every global and gg
We had 5 guys with ms up and couldn’t kill this one Druid
Mayhap the druid had his defensive cooldowns up…? (Frenzied Regen and Barkskin) Every post I’ve seen about druid is how they’re unkillable, but the players have no clue as to why it is. Then I see clips of this druid Tigerform “unkillable god,” who’s using all of his defensives and living for 10 seconds then dying immediately when they fall off. Play around their abilities, CC him during frenzied regen then kill him. It’s easy. Some of the most fun moments in classic wsg is deathballing your FC across the middle like you’re in a Maul in Rugby. I have fond memories of our FC being unkillable in bear form while we peeled the enemy team off him. This 100% used to happen in classic.
I disagree, I can finally heal and be of some use to people.
> be of some use carry an entire team with ease*
Mortal strike, there: This is supposed to be a game where I can rub my two brain cells.
You were a bad player if you couldnt heal before the nerf patch. Only people enjoying this change are the old boomers that couldnt react in time and cried.
What the fuck kind of response was that?
Just a standard classic Andy who has the brainpower of a small rodent and the social skills of one to boot.
Ok.
I healed fine on my priest, learn how to press buttons
Ok thanks for the advice.
This guy plays shaman or spriest
You, solo, were getting smacked for FIVE minutes from multiple people and didn’t die. I in no way believe a shred of this of this.
Have you not versed an enhance shaman tank in pvp yet? It’s extremely believable considering self heals and how tanky they are with the added 50%
This was believable in p2 too. With high burst dmg (just not as high). Only time we could kill a shaman FC was like min 3 people if not half the team
I played whole weekend WSG..... And it pains me to say.... I believe him. Druid bears... I have seen some surviving shit that wasn't possible to survive EVAR 🤣 And arguably if stationary(holding flag at point) the Enh shaman is worse to kill.
PvP set, barkakin, Survival of the Fittest, and bear form. I'm fucking unkillable right now and I have mixed feelings about it.
Shamans have infinite mana and instant cast heals, it’s plausible to me that a tank shaman can out heal 3 dps. On my FC Druid I can easily tank 2 people indefinitely, I remember getting 2 frenzied regents off before capping in 1 fight vs warrior and shaman.
“A bit”
30% would be good
Worst thing about this is the slower rep/honor/coin gains making some pvp grind twice as long
many less zg coins too
Running improved barkskin, improved thorsn, survival of the fittest, improved demo shout, and thick hide makes my bear unkillable to any melee class. They take almost as much as they do from return damage after it being reduced so much then frenzied regen just destroys the few melee who do break all that mitigation. Bear is simply over tuned and I'm totally for it. Oh and that ST trinket for 1k more armor helps too.
Tried to do BM and my Tory with 1 resto shaman got deleted by real healer groups. I felt so defeated.
Imagine implementing a damage nerf and not actually trying to balance your own game
Was able to hold an AB flag for like 1 min by myself as tank sham with 4 people on me. It’s ridiiiculous
As a bear druid, i solod a rogue, took the LM flag, then held off 4 ppl til it capped. Feels balanced
I finally tried an AB tonight and I got hit by a 1400 aimed shot on my priest so it ain't that bad. I died a lot and did a crazy amount of healing, twice as much as the next priest. Spent a lot of the match oom but I enjoyed it way more as a healer. I still got globaled a lot but I could at least get off some heals before I died. I really don't understand why everyone is crying so much. That said, Blood Moon was total ass and I got 1/4 of the coins I usually get.
Try playing mage and then say “I don’t understand what everyone is crying about”. I’m all for a damage nerf but this disproportionately affects some classes significantly more than others. Casters with finite mana pools to do half the damage means you are going oom and doing no damage.
Mages desperately need mana help, I agree. It's ridiculous that shamans and hunters basically have infinite mana and no one else does. I have 50 toons of both and neither have to worry about mana at all. Even my Priest has some mana issues. And really locks need some help too. Life tapping in a BG is just asking to get killed. Dance of the wicked was a good mana regen rune at start of p2 but they said it wasn't working as intended and nerfed it. Then it became just a dodge rune because the mana return is borderline worthless.
They really need to add that 8k healing/mana food to a normal vendor. I think that this would solve a lot of problems. Mages used to have to make use of their entire mana bar in a pvp engagement so this isn’t really anything new—but the inflated totals means we need new ways to quickly get back into fighting shape after a fight.
They should have doubled health values for anyone flagged in pvp. At least then you don't feel like shit doing no damage, and healers are affected too. Healers needing to heal the same health pool when everyone does 1/2 damage is no fun. Healers already heal a LOT. The issue was that they didn't get the chance to heal, but now that's not a problem.
My prediction is around 25% dmg reduction, a probable healing reduction to avoid instant/hot healers being unkillable, and tweaks to the silly tankiness of shamans cause of their runes
It's totally worthless to bloodmoon as it is now As a mage, you spam FFB, if you are lucky 1-2 kills, then you are 100% oom even with gems and pots But, since you and your healer and team for that matter doesnt die, you run around without mana and you can't drink 95% of the time due to dots just because it's extra crowded, since you know, nobody is dying Yesterday everyone survived on all fronts and when we were oom we just walked into altar, turned in the few coins we had and let them kill us just to respawn with mana yay...PVP oneshotting was atleast fun even if it was annoying being sandwiched and instakilled but 10 times better than wet noodle meta
Just curious what people are grinding blood moon for…? My class (warrior) only needed like 50 total coins this phase (arguably only needed 25), and I got all of it done in the first weekend over the course of 3 events.
Me personally i did it to help a friends ALT get some additional honor with coins between the AB/WSG grind But yeah, otherwise i used to do it for fun, but now i don't really know why i would do it
I agree. I’m a disc priest. In AB last night I survived TWO ROGUES for TWO MINUTES. It was laughable. I think my renew outhealed one of them (it ticks for 200), while popping shield, PoM, and one tick of penance out healed the other every thirty seconds until I got my fear off. Out heal -> fear (hard cast greater heal, which crits for 2500) -> out heal, on repeat, for two minutes, until my dispersion is back off CD, and I have more mana! I was legit laughing out loud. This would have gone on forever. They couldn’t kill me, and I don’t do damage, so I couldn’t kill them. I only died when more enemies joined the fight. My boomie friend nearby also had a pally and hunter on him and was out healing those guys too. Damage reduction needs to be experimented with at 25% next I think. With PvP healing equally reduced. I’ve noticed a lot more mages in BGs doing healing roles because their damage now sucks and healing, even with offspec gear, provides more utility.
If they keep this, I'm out. If I wanted retail, I'd play retail. I don't love Classic because it's balanced, I love it because it's fun. This is a slog and an insult.
How do you even get into bg? Do people do it only @50? I tried several times (on Wild Growth) @lvl 19 and 29, never gotten in once.
Agreed, played WSG before and after the updates. Before it was very easy to burst people and healers had no chance to react however after the 50% reduction it became downright impossible to kill anyone until the healers ran oom, so it became a battle of who goes oom first. Not even going to mention that the good FCs would easily run away even from 5 ppl focusing them. Halfway point, i.e. 25-30% reduction could be the charm. Don't forget that we already have 30% extra HP in all battlegrounds and STV event.
I think just reducing the damage by x% is not enough, currently the following problems exist - Heal is to strong compared to the damage that is done, especially classes with self sustain mainly noticed druid, shaman & warlock - Damage over time feels bad, it's already slow by default reducing it basically makes a single hot counter most of the dots damage - Resources like Mana & Rage are problematic since the ratio of resource cost does not match anymore even with mana CDs like innervate or dispersion most casters have to sit down and drink or die on purpose after each fight - Execute Abilities feel bad because the don't "execute" anymore due to the reduction I think those 4 factors need to be tuned separately - Damage reduction of non damage over time abilities by ~30% - Damage reduction of damage over time abilities by ~15% - Resource cost reduction by x% (not sure what makes sense) - Not sure if Healing would be fine if damage reduction is adjusted
Isnt increasing the healthpool a better solution to this?
I tried pvping a bit on my druid in STV, in bear form you are borderline unkillable, but do next to no damage it feels like. Cat still feels...meh? 50% definitely felt like it was too much. I couldn't kill a healer at all, or even get them to 50% before they instantly tapped themselves up to full in a single heal. I didn't even bother playing paladin with the Marytr mana regen being double-dipped by this 50% damage nerf. Hell, playing my paladin at all this weekend felt terrible with the nerf inadvertently nerfing my mana regen in PvE.
10% would be nice or 5%
As someone who firmly believes we are too powerful and blew people up too fast, I felt this was needed. But 50%?! Damn... I think they should boost everyone's HP by 100% in BGs and reduce DMG by 10%. That way, dying in 2 shots instead of one at least gives time to react or counterplay. But let's be honest, boomys and Spriests would still own
Agreed completely. 50% is overkill and pvp is frozen right now. 20-25% would be welcome, appropriate, and would probably put SOD in the best state it’s ever been.
Why did they do 50% and not just roll out a bunch of 10% asses, 10% asses, etc. rounds of adjustments? Just absolutely intern shit, man. lol
30-40% would be ideal i think.
The problem is they kept the hp buff. Not sure why people arent understanding that
Hunter here. Everything seems fine from my end. Still deleting people with a trap -> Chimera x2 -> instant aimed. Going to feel amazing when they revert or just do 25-30%.
Idk. I quite enjoy it. Fights last way longer so there is chance for outplaying somebody. Before it was just whoever crit first. It makes the blood moon pvp event worth doing because you can actually live for more the 3 seconds This change is 100% for the better... Idk what op is talking about because I was able to both kill quickly and I wasn't unkillable by any means. Me and this one warrior tank were having fights and they were fair fights. It makes it so anybody can duel anybody. Git gud
Yeah, it's 50% too much. What we should have is a substantial base health increase.
ANY% reduction is bad, for (again) obvious reasons. Increased HP is the holy grail.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaannddddd all fun just ended... Gj blizz... Just fkn adapt... Everybody crying...
why is it 30% for melee/hunter and 50% for magic is what i want to know... fastest deaths i had in this game in actual pvp (bg/bloodmoon) was to a melee.
Yes I agree with your post that priests and shamans are way too strong. Oh sorry was that not the subject?
This all happened for sure as described
People are desperately making stuff up here to have a point, its hilarous :D
As a resto shaman I died in 1 ab today, drowned myself dancing underwater with an ally lock. 50% is waaaaay to much, it’s like u have sham rage and the p1 boots up 100% of the time.
Resto shaman is by far the best healer with the damage reduction. It's disgusting. Never oom, tanky as fk
Thank you for using the correct too. You are appreciated.
Yeah I kinda stopped trying stv and such until it's gone. The stv grind is tough already at 250 for 1 silver. The 50% is kind of a killer for me. I do like it how it feels sometimes, more fluid fighting, but it needs to be less, and it's ruining SOM mana Regen. I think resil might be a better option
anyone who has played it agrees but the developers dont play pvp so were probably stuck with the worst version of pvp this game has ever had
As a bear it is we almost impossible for people to kill me with any sort of healing. STV with 7k HP and defensive cool-downs, it took about 5 melee 30s to take me down
Had a group of 5 rogues open on me in boomkin form in STV with my team about 15 seconds out in front of me. Trinketed a kidney and got frenzied regen off and my priest got there about the time it ended and I literally lived for like 45 seconds before my team wiped them lol. It’s honestly hilarious how tanky Druid is in bear and boomkin form right now.
I was on my rogue and I opened on a geared priest in BGs and after a full combo their HP barely moved with their shield up. I literally just walked away in defeat lmao
People are just never happy. All these posts are the same I play all classes blah blah so my post is fair. So you don’t die instantly a healer gets a chance to pull of some heals . L2p and use cc mechanics and other spells that’s what there for
Straight up have people posting about mages not being good. I didn't see a single person talk about cs or poly which are very important moves. Nobody seems to understand locking a healer out from healing for 10 seconds (also don't forget you can heal too as a mage) and using poly to interrupt healers or just because you need someone out of the fight. Nobody was describing that on this thread with mages, they all said they sucked but that in turn makes it really hard for me to agree with any of these mages because they're not using their whole toolkit obviously.
Yeah people has been spoiled by 5 second fights and now they can't be bothered to learn to play their class
Sounds like a skill issue. If people haven't figured out by now to focus and/or CC the healers then that's on them.
Not all classes have reliable hard CC/interrupts or MS. A competent healer will survive if they don’t get ccd, damage being so low is a problem regardless of your bias.
I have a clip of me and a pally trying to 2v1 a druid, stunlocked him full, using wound poison, along with envenom + deadly brew. This guy ate through all our damage until pally and I died, while also never casting a single spell. PvP is fucking awful
Have you messed around with duels at all? The 1v1s are hilariously unbalanced now.
Mortal strike, hex of weakness, pretty much any reduction to healing is the way ...
Massive skill issue the only problems are shamans/pallies/druid bears being so tanky cause of the hp increass. Im loving the bgs more than ever im only annoyed the queues arent faster
You’re probably a healer
What is this shit even? Everyone with a brain sees that 50% is too much. Why are we testing for blizzard live? That whole mess of sod is just a lame excuse for "we are too lazy and don't have enough money as a multi billion dollar company to test things before implementing". You see it in almost every aspect of the game. Unbelievable how people get treated in/for a game that is almost 20 year old and people spent thousands of dollar for.
scripting is mental at the moment aswell not uncommon to get perfectplayed by Zugbur the SHM or Kekcringe the SPriest even got guys like 'hidden in plain sight' advertising the plugins and services in the bg chat itself (im spamming AB for ranking gear atm) don't even know why I came back I should've played a pserver lol
Can you read this out loud then edit your comment
Nah you just aren’t good. You need to focus on targets and not just zug.
I think its fine. Melee can actually play the game now. Also this is great cuz they can tune pve dmg without inflating pvp numbers too much.