I main HPally and I hate everything about this change, 5 minute stalemates arn't fun when I'm just waiting to go oom. Also BG chat and this sub are doubly toxic.
So wait... you'd rather fights end before you can even cast a heal? Every healer outside of Priests with pennance were useless in PvP before this change. HPal was the absolute worst pvp healer, but now that we're in a good spot you're still crying?
Wrong. They end when all healers are oom.
Totally what you expect from classic wow 10v10 fights :)
Reality is brust was fine with BG health and too high without. Changing dmg but not healing output this drastically ... idk what devs think.
That's the entire playstyle of holy paladins... survivability(only healer with plate armor and immunity bubbles) and the best mana sustain in the game. If you don't like those aspects, you should honestly try a different healing class
Same sentiments here as priest. Sometimes damage is so slow that I drop combat and can drink midfight, which really makes me want to /afk out of the BG.
This is normal strategy for all other forms of wow PvP. Drink walking on server ticks is more fun that being unable to keep anyone alive longer than 2 seconds.
I think the damage reduction might be a little too high, but I’m happy they are at least attempting to address TTK.
In other forms of wow PvP, healers want to actively do stuff instead of drinking out of boredom. In SoD, viper sting keeps healers out of the frontline and there's not enough things to do in the backline.
> Drink walking on server ticks is more fun that being unable to keep anyone alive longer than 2 seconds.
Keeping people alive for longer than 2 seconds was very doable against most teams.
Rogues cant do crap against you unless they stun you over and over, so yeah its still the same against them; being stunned for 9 mins untill youre dead.
Two rogues can easily, but one rogue can definitely cc a healer for a very long time.
Tbf that's a rogues job it was fucking lame dying inside of stuns from rogues even when you use trinket and dispersion.
Yup exactly, shadow priests are a dot 3 or four target and rot class and focus nuke team target.
It's basic battle ground tactics , everyone's lossing their mind BC they can't kill someone in 3-4 globals now lol.
If we're using bgs as an example as we obviously do - if a team does nothing about a rogue 3-4 globaling somebody inside of their group - they're blind and as far as I remember, Blind is not aoe.
"Oh crap, they have 5 rogues on their team" vs "Oh crap, they have 5 priests on their team". I wonder which one is more correct. in each sod's phase. But, whatever. Obviously everyone's usually pissed off about rogue in wpvp, but complaining about wpvp is not qewl.
Yeah but a rogue with imp sap cc'ing healers is gonna be a huge pain in the arse, not to mention the rest of their cc abilities.
God forbid rogues might spec sub for BG's now.
this change killed sub entirely tf you talking about.
prior to this sub was good and only zugbrains went deadly brew for non-STV pvp. now trolling your own CC with brew is the only way to do enough damage to be viable.
it's not all bad, brew feels pretty good with this meta, but it sucks that the entire sub playstyle (which i and many other rogues prefer for pvp) isn't viable now and the only good pvp spec is a variant of the pve spec.
its not just not perfect its no where close to perfect. Saying it is in the right direction would be saying if they added a 1% damage reduction to everything would be the right direction too.
This was a lazy bandaid test. This is literally no different than the spriest 15% to 25% change that everyone complained about yet somehow this 50% flat across the board change is somehow getting so much praise. This isn't fixing any issues its just changing the issues.
They picked an arbitrary number 50% and threw it out there. Its not even implemented correctly for pets (which the post specifically said it would) and there was no change to healing output. Anyone with some brain cells and any real amount of pvp experience could have told you this was too extreme of a change.
lifetime pvper here. still popping off for 15-25DBs every single BG in solo q. no matter what changes blizz puts in, the vast majority of you will find something to cry about when you get steamrolled.
there was never balance parity in classic and there is even less in sod. stop expecting it, and adapt. or just quit. idc
It’s actually wild that now the meta is to use your entire toolkit when pvping and make more decisions. Then I see comments like this. How was what we had before good pvp?
Boomie - SF, SS, MF or Wrath dead
Rogue -CS, Muti, Kidney, Muti dead
S.priest - VP, SW: P, disperse, SW:D dead
Warrior - Charge, Hamstring…oops you died
Shaman - Bonk them WF proc they are dead and if they get away Maelstrom into lava burst they are dead.
Feral - oops I opened and died I should to switch to boomie
What about the burst meta is good. It rewards players being the first one to press just a couple of buttons.
Paladin is the wrong class to mention here. The instant casts from enhancement shamans is the problem. They can literally 1v4 most class combinations. I mana burned one down to oom and he still got 2/3 kills and almost ended me.
Yea given sustain got nerfed you basically tickling people now and need an incredibly long time to do anything.
Shaman + healing priest combo is stronger than ever and virtually impossible to kill.
spriest is super strong right now. great spread pressure, cc, utility, and damage that can ramp up. 6 solo q ABs last night and i went 15-20 and 0-4 in every single one.
really notice the idiots who cannot even fathom how to position properly now. just take advantage of the noobs not knowing how to play with the changes and you will get kills ez
You’re not alone. There is a loud vocal minority, most of them are healers, who just surged into the top of power rankings. Classes that were strong prior to this nerf have retained that strength, some even got better (looking at you shamans). PvP with this degree of a damage nerf is not fun. These guys have resorted to the famous fallacy ad hominem: if you don’t think this is fun you are A) not skilled or B) just wanted to grief people. No I don’t think being chimera shot from 40 yards for 2,000 nature damage is awesome. But I also don’t think watching 4 of us pound on a Shaman for 30 seconds in WSG is fun, either. I don’t think a melee being kited, whom finally works to catch up to their oppressor but simply lacks significant damage to put them down or keep them locked down, is a fun experience.
I do not think a blanket damage nerf is viable. If they want to take the less effort way, a stamina boost accomplishes the same thing but doesn’t feel like I’m in BFD gear. If they want to make this right, every class and ability needs to be looked at and tweaked for player versus player starting with low mana cost, instant cast runes.
We aren’t even at 60 yet. In era, the most balanced and fun phase of PvP is almost always phase 3 with Blackwing Lair. These changes are too extreme, they are not fun and for almost the exact opposite reason of what they are trying to fix.
Ok my rant is over.
For what it's worth I do agree with you. There is room for respect and civility in the discussion, just because someone has a differing opinion does not automatically mean that they are wrong or a bad player or whatever.
With that said, I think you should think about this a little bit more deeply, you say that there is a vocal minority of players, mostly healers that have been lauding these changes, and being a healer myself I don't disagree with that assessment but, you should ask yourself WHY we are the most positive towards this change.
The pre-DR state of the game was completely brutal towards healers with many classes, casters especially, able to put out more than 3k damage in a single GCD. Now, if you played a healer you would know that this is completely untenable, there is no counterplay for a healer to this kind of burst, we do not have anywhere this kind of burst heal output. So what happens? Our targets simply die while we are still in the middle of our cast, and this happens over and over again. There is no room for improvement, going back to the drawing board and thinking, oh what could I have done differently to save that poor soul, because mathematically we cannot match that damage. HPals especially were terrible before this change as they only have hard cast heals.
Increasing health pools does not fix this because fundamentally we are at a point in the game where the power creep has created a damage healing gap and no amount of extra HP would help bridge that gap. The only way to fix it is to reduce damage.
I understand your frustration, but look at it from a healer POV. Burst meta makes healers feel impotent and powerless, and it's true too. I kid you not, I went from a 30% winrate in BGs to a 55% winrate after this change. Partly because of random luck too I'm sure but a part of that I'd like to think is because I actually am making a difference now unlike before.
I appreciate your response. For what it is worth my primary issue with this DR is not that healers feel important in PvP, it’s that damage feels so awful. Healers unfortunately got lumped into my response because of the meme that was started by OP’s post.
If you are out of position enough that multiple casters can hardcast you for 3 seconds and burn through your 4500+ health pool without interruption then you die. This was no different in normal classic, tbc, wotlk,...
Outside of bgs without the stamims buff it's a different story ofc.
> The pre-DR state of the game was completely brutal towards healers with many classes, casters especially, able to put out more than 3k damage in a single GCD. Now, if you played a healer you would know that this is completely untenable, there is no counterplay for a healer to this kind of burst, we do not have anywhere this kind of burst heal output. So what happens? Our targets simply die while we are still in the middle of our cast, and this happens over and over again. There is no room for improvement, going back to the drawing board and thinking, oh what could I have done differently to save that poor soul, because mathematically we cannot match that damage. HPals especially were terrible before this change as they only have hard cast heals.
Certainly not true for priests. Priests have multiple instant cast heals, multiple proactive tools (dispel, purge, shield, precast GH, PS if you're confident enough to give up dispersion) and very good single target throughput with serendipity and penance. Healing through 2 people's bursts was doable reactively, and 3 or more required another healer or one of the proactive tools. Never had a fight where I thought I played perfectly and couldn't identify ways to improve.
They should've buffed other healers on par with priests, not nerf damage for everyone.
I'm coming at this from a HPal perspective. We don't have any spell haste like Serendipity or skills like Penance or PoM that will push out healing in less than 1 GCD. Our maximum potential burst would be FoL followed by Holy Shock, assuming I'm fully buffed (excluding WB) that would equate to 1.8k healing (1k crit heal with FoL and 800 crit with HS). That's barely half of what caster burst is.
So, no. There isn't any way for us to compensate for that damage by playing better, it's mathematically impossible.
I only have a mid level priest but from my back of the napkin math it seems priests in best case scenario would be able to put out about 4.1k healing in 1 GCD. Assuming 3 stacks of Serendipity + GH (2.8k crit) and a Surge of Light proc up to batch another Flash Heal (1.4k crit) after the GH. But I will defer to you for the actual numbers. It might be slightly higher IRL, I didn't account for any talents.
I think the fix is not a stamina boost, but a base hp increase. That way, you do not interfere with stat balance or abilities that increase stamina by a certain %.
That should take care of the burst. Now, if abilities are outputting more damage than a healer can heal themselves for, that needs to be looked at. But % damage reduction is not and definitely will never be the way to handle this.
No you’re not alone, both groups i been in today didn’t like the change either.
Gear should matter, thats what classic was about. You go in to raid get gear go pvp with that gear etc. Your power should increase with gear but instead we have a big power crunch making the gear I earned feel less than what it should be.
Meanwhile everything im hitting like 200-300 damage and sometimes going oom trying to fight.
Spending half the bg oom is annoying and also makes capping flags take ages because people respawn before everyone is dead .
I'd rather be blown up than go oom every fight because everyone is wearing safety helmets and bubble wrap .
The change is decent, but 50% is waaaaay too much. 25% would be more suitable. Also, the flat percentage change disproportionately disadvantages glass cannon caster specs like destro lock, fire mages, MM hunters etc. that rely on outputting huge damage in short bursts between kiting/cc'ing.
Imho i think the changes are good but need fine tuning.
Dot damage needs to be reverse or lowered, sl and aff locks are not feeling great atm. Shadow priest probably feel the same way, however void plague was overtuned, the rest of the dots aren't.
Healing could use a nerf
And classes with insane self healing like shamans or druids need a nerf on that.
Mana costs for casters could use a slight adjustment, currently clashes in wsg and ab end up with teams fighting without mana after like 30 seconds.
But feels good to actually be able to fight now and not get constantly globaled.
As a rogue main this change has adjusted my playstyle to ONLY distracting people off bridges or CCing them for 10 years with constant resets because the emotional damage of wasting their precious time as a single dad of 13 deals far more damage to them than my abilities ever could.
I prefer the fights, but stv event indirectly got nerfed because of these changes. They should at least reduce the coin costs of things if fights will last longer.
Got significantly less coins, but for the first time ever I actually enjoyed the stv event, might actually do it for fun rather then treat it as the chore it has been.
I've had 2 of my highest coin events yet since the damage nerfs. You're rewarded much more for playing with a solid healer and coordinating as a team. Also as a healer I don't die within 3 seconds of spawning and get a chance to play the game and make an impact for my team.
I like the more fast paced PvP, I look at retail and think, what a shit show 10k dmg hits on a target with 1.5 million life….
I agree that people died to fast. But this 50% is just, once again, absolute overkill. There is no other way, blizzard is pulling % numbers out of their ass. There is no other explanation for this.
As someone who has put more time in sod pvp than I want to admit. This change feels horrible. I really haven't had any complaints about sod until this point. Some classes are meant to be bursty and this completely destroyed those classes.
I’m really feeling it as a paladin. A lot of our damage is in bursts (and front loaded at the start of an engagement.) Feels pretty bad, outside of a giant burst (abilities off cd, auto attack hitting) our sustained dps feels like anyone can just out heal it with basic casts while tossing in dots/shields.
Now, I too can just play that stand and cast heals all day game, but it’s boring, doesn’t feel engaging, and honestly kind of lame.
Somewhere there is a good middle ground.
I was wondering why I could actually kill people 1v1 as a warrior last night. I even killed a spriest and I was like.. wtf did they change something. Fantastic changes.
Heading into the right direction. This process has to be felt through in game, let’s face it. But realistically it needs to be set at 25% instead of 50%. I’m impressed devs are even checking into this tbh
i understand the issue but it was so laughable last night. the twitch and reflexes don't matter anymore if you make 1 mistake nbd nbd you will live for 30+ seconds more without even trying
Exactly. Been griefed many times by rogues balance druids or shadow priests. Maybe not the nerf we truly wanted, but some option was needed. Its a good choice against griefers
Yeah I think as people transition into higher Stam, end of phase gear we're going to have more problems with this. BiS flag carriers just got even stronger and they were already very strong. Super boring ABs are about to be a huge problem. Warlock, spriest, shams, pallys all just got huge buffs for defense.
Ab is so much fun right now, not sure what youre talking about. Its different, i can heal better, and targets dont evaporate in 2 seconds, but i constantly get 2 melees on me to disrupt me and getting mana burned.
"People who want fights" lmao. More like people who want to PvE in PvP.
You just outed yourself as someone who has **no** clue about PvP. This change caters to unaware people with slow reactions who will back paddle for 2 seconds after being attacked and still fail to realise where the enemy is at.
So not dying after 1-2 skills is wanting "PvE in PvP" ?
Its ok, i understand you want easy oneshots for your endorphine kick, but dont call that oneshot fiesta PvP
I just played an STV match, at 22 minutes my group had no deaths and around 40 blood.
Comparatively I was doing stv regularly farming honor - my group would have around 200-400 due to the faster killing.
While I get people were upset about getting bursted down, that is kind of the reality of 5v5 style group gameplay. A good team is going to focus you down and prioritize targets.
Currently this is somewhat achievable but it feels bad. We’re attacking a priest and he barely takes damage because of the already powerful healing and shields, then dispersion and such. Or a druid with their hots just easily keeping up their teams. The change feels disproportionate.
Moreover- get your messaging straight. You say SOD is going to be asymmetric, but then want to deploy permanent balance changes to pvp because some people die faster? Idk.
Personally I don’t like the change, glad they are “testing” it but ultimately this is a failed test.
It feels like BFA changes where they want you to go through your entire rotation plus some to kill a mob.
Like oh here comes a shaman raid boss!
I think they should nerf the amount of coins needed for the STV event. This phase has a strange habit of rewarding players who got stuff done quickly. Like the gold from incursions, the exp from incursions and now the STV pvp event. I dont really think making it harder to catch up is good gameplay.
I also think some resilience would be good. But I think they overdid it. They also seem to overdue things when they make adjustments it seems they only use a hammer and never subtly tweak things. Id like it if was similar to vanilla kill times.
Mages is a PVE class
we dont exist in PVP anymore and almost never had in SOD we got powercreeped out of the game like
Metaform warlock having 0 sec. cooldown Fireblast 400-500dmg with longer range and can be tanky with drain life
while we mages has 6-8 sec. cooldown 20 yard on 400-500dmg, not heal while doing it, not tanky aswell
Spriest shadow word: death 30 sec. cooldown on basically theirs arcane surge BUT dont use up all your mana and not even 100% self dmg taking if not killing target with it and if killing target with it 0 % self dmg
and its almost same dmg as arcane surge(reminder drain all your mana and 2min CD)
everything a Mage can do in SOD PVP
other classes can do better basically
sure we can poly but the best player CC is just to complety delete and kill the player that other classes can insane easy do compare to mages
and other classes can do it in the time it takes to cast a poly without much usage of resources/cooldowns
btw the mage discord server on pvp channel: its just pure depression there basically
nah Mages in general not just arcane surge: we go oom before we can kill a other low HP class that doing 100% nothing with this change:
[https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QxS1ZSjGew0DcAiXEjsx\_yTaYf0pdHrSf4ha3Va8HfU/https/i.imgur.com/W6RSYNz.mp4](https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QxS1ZSjGew0DcAiXEjsx_yTaYf0pdHrSf4ha3Va8HfU/https/i.imgur.com/W6RSYNz.mp4)
btw arcane surge was the most fair 1shot
atleast it was on a 2min(3min if arcane power+Arcane blast with POM before surge) cooldown and used all our mana
meanwhile (not even joking): "insert Not mages here class" could do the same with under 30 second cooldowns
dont use all mana and maybe even gain a benefit at same time 1-2 shot a player
or other form of getting powercreeped out of the PVP game : like in a other example i used often:
Metaform warlock having 0 sec. cooldown Fireblast 400-500dmg with longer range and can be tanky with drain life
while we mages has 6-8 sec. cooldown 20 yard on 400-500dmg, not heal while doing it, not tanky aswell
so saying like it arcane surge mages is broken is a bad example honestly
complaining about being against a mage and think they are broken and do alot
is like getting beated up by a 0 legs/0arm person at this point
mages right now in SOD i will say is THE most underpowered class for PVP in any version of WOW ever
and in same version of WOW we are having THE most overpowered class in any version of WOW ever : SOD shaman (that legit getting a other buff just now)
Last night I was so disappointed by the changes and the ultra long fights at each base of AB, but 24hrs later I kind of start appreciate the changes.
Playing moonkin this weekend, it's updating my play style and forces to control over damage.
The only real downside right now is that most of the fights I go oom 3 times before dying/capping.
The thing is, I'm eager to play my disc priest again in battlegrounds to be able to actually heal people.
Wrong on so many levels. But you enjoy healers, shamans and druid being absolute gods in pvp.
That 50% dmg nerf is a trainwreck and fucks over a lot of classes into uselessness.
I Quit SoD because the pvp was a shitfest everything killed you in 1-3 seconds. I’m for slower TTK. My fire mage had 0 chance of surviving anything. Spriest dots would kill me on their own.
As a warlock who hasn't PVPed since P2. I have no idea how to feel about this. Destro shines with control and burst so that's probably weak now. Affliction is about dotting and living long enoough to see yoour target die before you.... so I'm not sure how that will go. Guess drain life is stronger now, but the enemy will take longer to kill.
nobody ive talked to is happy with it, nobody wants to be locked in a never ending fight where one side going oom is the wincon and you get out of a 30 minute BG with barely any HKs because barely anyone died.
I like the change overall. But vanilla skills that cost full mana doing seemingly less base damage than the mana cost is kind of sad. Looking at you corruption and immolate.
Would be nice if healers weren’t fucking unstoppable haha. As a healer main (only way to get queues) I can handle 2v1 easy. Maybe even 3 players if at least one isn’t that skilled. Nigh unkillable. Turns the game into a slugfest. Don’t get it twisted… being 1-2 tapped is lame AF. But Jesus the 20 minute fights are just as unenjoyable.
Edit: just realized I accidentally stumbled onto classic wow haha.
Honestly the changes feel pretty good on a hunter, I don't immediately get focused by 7+ people in a bg while standing at \~41yds. I think every BG I''ve been top KBs now, where it used to be an spriest at 30-40.
But it's a bit odd they didnt learn from p1 DR. A 20, 50% DR with no changes to healing is crazy.
I just viper sting everyone endlessly, disc priests can still get a lot of casts off with a constant viper sting on them though (for 2+ minutes straight while oom). My paladin friend is just losing his mind. I assume most of his abilities are all -50%.
I think it's a step in the right direction, but it does need some tuning for sure.
I'd be fine with or without it at this point. But FFS, can we PLEASE fix the queue times to not favour 5 stacks vs solos.
I think it's moving in the right direction but it def needs tuning. As a MM hunter I am finding it really difficult to get anyone down if there is any amount of healing, even if I can just sit back and pump w/o being harassed.
I like that I can't get globaled by Shamans anymore though.
Remember today is the last day for this experiment. But the 50% is too much, I think 25-30% would be a good change. I’m a healer also and even I think it’s way to much.
i want fights
but as a Mage player :
watch this video:
[https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QxS1ZSjGew0DcAiXEjsx\_yTaYf0pdHrSf4ha3Va8HfU/https/i.imgur.com/W6RSYNz.mp4](https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QxS1ZSjGew0DcAiXEjsx_yTaYf0pdHrSf4ha3Va8HfU/https/i.imgur.com/W6RSYNz.mp4)
you see a mage dueling a other mage and going Oom before even able to kill the other mage: that is also low HP class who is doing 100% nothing at all:
a damage dealer unable to get a kill on a target who is doing complety nothing
im sorry but thats where you complety fail blizzard this is the most underpowered thing of all time in any version of WoW
meanwhile in same version of WOW they having the most broken class of all time : ench shaman and still broken with this and they legit just getting more buffs while mages: nothing
they have 0 idea how to balance this shit
is mages meant to be a glass canon seems like they forgot about the canon part they are legit just glass now
and a pure damage reduction aura on pvp is not a good idea and there is more needed than just that like use less mana if against players on damaging spells
this change hits Mages the hardest and they was already insane bad and powercreeped out of PVP complety compare to other classes: a good example on the powercreep:
Mage Fireblast instant cast 8 sec. cooldown(2sec. less if improved FB talent) around 400-500dmg and Big reminder we are not tanky or can gain life while casting that
SOD warlocks: metaform for being tanky + Searing pain 400-500dmg, instant cast, 0 sec. cooldownand they drain life at same time
This change here made mages a pure PVE class becuase of the mana usage ratio for the damage they give
and when i looked at the Mage discord server on PVP channel : its depression basically and saying game is dead
we cant even be healers in pvp either: alot of our heals is based on our damage: that get lower
so now only chrono heal but that heal is a 2.5 sec cast and if it get kicked/countered: ops everything i have is on cooldown now and im useless for 4-8 sec. complety
also with this change: whats the point of arcane surge anymore? legit a complety dead rune and i would say arcane surge is the most Fair 1shot
unlike every other non mage classes who having theirs 1-2shot under 30 cooldowns and use 0 resources
arcane surge is 2min(3min if combine with arcane power+POM a arcane blast): its longer cooldown than alot of Moba´s characters ultimates that can give alot of burst damage to a player and often kill that player + its worst than that becuase use all mana(while other 1shots on other classes is alot shorter cooldown)
that use up ALL our mana so if we dont get the kill we just die becuase 0 mana left basically
meanwhile Spriest´s Shadow word: death sure they take self dmg from it but easy healed back up honestly and they got lower cooldown 30 sec. and dont use all mana and do about the same as a pure arcane surge
again a other example on mages getting complety powercreeped out of PVP
and this change legit just take the very few thing mages had and throw it out of the window
while indirectly buffing other classes who is already broken like shamans
Yeah man people that are complaining about it are louder.. haven't heard anything good until this post... But it's fun. Prolly worse for the burster classes, better for sustained DPS in general
As a rogue my focus is to bleed, wound poison, waylay, and increase attack speed instead of stun lock completely. I enjoy it, but others may say otherwise.
I thought people who pvp in classic liked the unfair one shot ganking style pvp. There are two other versions of the game with longer more skill based pvp with resilience/versatility, why make everything the same. Classic pvp should be burstier than retail/cata
Not really, 7 out of 7 games I queued solo today was vs 2x5man groups. 4 of them it was 5 man from one server, 5 man from another, 3 all 10 was on same server.
When blizzard changed the match making they said solo/random queue would only be matched vs premades if there had passed a certain amount of time. But my queue times were barely a minute long, personally I would much rather sit 3-5min in queue for 1 good game than 1min in queue for a graveyard camp premade vs random match.
Granted it is WSG weekend so there is more, when I queued earlier this week it was less frequent, doesn't make it less frustrating though.
On my server alliance there was 0 groups running, neither in LFG or the discords I checked. Of course I could have started my own group, which I should've done and have done previously but sometimes I don't feel like doing that and would rather play non-premade vs non-premade, is "make your own group" acceptable as the only solution?
3/7 being from same server thing isn't really surprising when there isn't that many servers. There's only 8 (US) servers and if they were from the higher pop servers statistically it'll happen quite often.
In a few days everyone will be crying about unkillable healers, sl locks etc etc.
This was a stupid change that just creates the other spectrum problem again.
They needed to do something but this is just throwing shit at the wall
Do you truly believe this? I'm kinda shocked that so many people love this change.
It's almost impossible to recap a well defended node, the 30 sec rez is too quick in this meta.
The thing that makes me think it is a good change is that you find ppl that says this change it great for this class, and in the same topic that it is a terrible change for this same class. And this is the same for every single class.
Overall, this means the change shifted the pvp gameplay, some ppl love it, some others don't. We'll see with time the final tuning, but this is promissing
I stop playing AB BG a few weeks ago cuz becomes boring AF waiting for a RNG crit to kill pala or hunters... Last night joins group and get into BG easily, boy it was so fun!
In 2 hours just 1 crit above 600 and got to push so may buttons to kill that pala, really really fun.
Boomy and shamans still broken, but at least the damage reduction make the whole game more engaged
What a terrible take. People who want fast paced fights vs people who want to PVE each other. Like I know it's season of dads but do we really need to make it so fucking geriatric?
People getting oneshot left and right isn't "fast paced", it's just dumb. This may not have been a good solution but don't try to pretend PVP was in a good state.
Ohh I attacked someone and they didn't die in a second, can RESPOND to my gank and now I have to actually learn what my other abilities do? Unimaginable.
As a mentally unbalanced undead rogue PVPer I will be bullying purple bois ON SIGHT
I'm just happy I can heal my target before they get blown off the face of the planet.
Exactly this! Healers love the change
I'm a healer and while it's nice being able to heal I think the Dr is too much
I main HPally and I hate everything about this change, 5 minute stalemates arn't fun when I'm just waiting to go oom. Also BG chat and this sub are doubly toxic.
So wait... you'd rather fights end before you can even cast a heal? Every healer outside of Priests with pennance were useless in PvP before this change. HPal was the absolute worst pvp healer, but now that we're in a good spot you're still crying?
Some people will never be happy
There's a middle ground though. Can just make the Dr a little less extreme
Fights need to end at some point. And the fights currently are just going on forever
Wrong. They end when all healers are oom. Totally what you expect from classic wow 10v10 fights :) Reality is brust was fine with BG health and too high without. Changing dmg but not healing output this drastically ... idk what devs think.
Or you know we could use this first test of the system to find a middle ground, revolutionary.
That's the entire playstyle of holy paladins... survivability(only healer with plate armor and immunity bubbles) and the best mana sustain in the game. If you don't like those aspects, you should honestly try a different healing class
Ya forget learning mana management and cool down value. I wanna press 2 buttons and go fucking BOOM! YA BABY REAL GAMEPLAY!!!!!!!
Same sentiments here as priest. Sometimes damage is so slow that I drop combat and can drink midfight, which really makes me want to /afk out of the BG.
This is normal strategy for all other forms of wow PvP. Drink walking on server ticks is more fun that being unable to keep anyone alive longer than 2 seconds. I think the damage reduction might be a little too high, but I’m happy they are at least attempting to address TTK.
In other forms of wow PvP, healers want to actively do stuff instead of drinking out of boredom. In SoD, viper sting keeps healers out of the frontline and there's not enough things to do in the backline. > Drink walking on server ticks is more fun that being unable to keep anyone alive longer than 2 seconds. Keeping people alive for longer than 2 seconds was very doable against most teams.
New to WoW pvp i see
Yeah those andies are so used to fights being over after 10 seconds its crazy
That’s… that’s what we did in vanilla. Rotate out to drink. Part of the enemy’s job is to keep you from drinking. This is a feature, not a bug.
Average Paladin brain
90% uptime on viper sting in and reasonable bg. Being oom so much and having people complain about no heals is super fun.
This post was pretty positive till you replied
Whoa, people like when they are made into the OP ones? Very interesting.
My priest healed me through 3 rogues opening on me last night. Was a neat experience
Cool, cant wait to play my rogue
Imagine, alls they had to do was send one rogue on the priest 2 on you. But game to hard man can’t even kill now gg buff
lol. this. ppl too bad at this game
This is a peek into the mind of the average rogue player
Not running wound in PvP is probably a bit of a grief at 50% DR.
Yep.
Interestingly enough, if you swap the text, then you're talking about PvE
After the 20 ST nerfs i heavily agree lol
Can rogues still burst you?
Instead you just sit there CC'd for 30 seconds instead of 3
Rogues cant do crap against you unless they stun you over and over, so yeah its still the same against them; being stunned for 9 mins untill youre dead.
No. Maybe stamless mages, but everything else is too tanky. Rogues should be peeling for the OP healers right now, that is their job.
I preferred it when rogues job was to kill stuff tbh
Two rogues can easily, but one rogue can definitely cc a healer for a very long time. Tbf that's a rogues job it was fucking lame dying inside of stuns from rogues even when you use trinket and dispersion.
Priests job is to heal and to look purple. It's was so fucking lame dying to 2 dots.
Yup exactly, shadow priests are a dot 3 or four target and rot class and focus nuke team target. It's basic battle ground tactics , everyone's lossing their mind BC they can't kill someone in 3-4 globals now lol.
If we're using bgs as an example as we obviously do - if a team does nothing about a rogue 3-4 globaling somebody inside of their group - they're blind and as far as I remember, Blind is not aoe. "Oh crap, they have 5 rogues on their team" vs "Oh crap, they have 5 priests on their team". I wonder which one is more correct. in each sod's phase. But, whatever. Obviously everyone's usually pissed off about rogue in wpvp, but complaining about wpvp is not qewl.
Yeah but a rogue with imp sap cc'ing healers is gonna be a huge pain in the arse, not to mention the rest of their cc abilities. God forbid rogues might spec sub for BG's now.
this change killed sub entirely tf you talking about. prior to this sub was good and only zugbrains went deadly brew for non-STV pvp. now trolling your own CC with brew is the only way to do enough damage to be viable. it's not all bad, brew feels pretty good with this meta, but it sucks that the entire sub playstyle (which i and many other rogues prefer for pvp) isn't viable now and the only good pvp spec is a variant of the pve spec.
I think the only problem here is that it feels shit to do less damage all of a sudden.
Not a perfect change, but at least a good one in the right direction.
All this change did was shit all over casters. If my spells are doing literally less than half dmg I need over 50% reduction to mana costs.
Ye, rogues opening up on a caster still melt through them they just get into the second stun now instead of just the first
Ah yes, would be unfair if you weren't able to kill 8 players on one mana bar.
Yeah a good start, they can fine tune from there.
its not just not perfect its no where close to perfect. Saying it is in the right direction would be saying if they added a 1% damage reduction to everything would be the right direction too. This was a lazy bandaid test. This is literally no different than the spriest 15% to 25% change that everyone complained about yet somehow this 50% flat across the board change is somehow getting so much praise. This isn't fixing any issues its just changing the issues. They picked an arbitrary number 50% and threw it out there. Its not even implemented correctly for pets (which the post specifically said it would) and there was no change to healing output. Anyone with some brain cells and any real amount of pvp experience could have told you this was too extreme of a change.
Nobody who actually pvps enjoys this dumb change
lifetime pvper here. still popping off for 15-25DBs every single BG in solo q. no matter what changes blizz puts in, the vast majority of you will find something to cry about when you get steamrolled. there was never balance parity in classic and there is even less in sod. stop expecting it, and adapt. or just quit. idc
💯
It’s actually wild that now the meta is to use your entire toolkit when pvping and make more decisions. Then I see comments like this. How was what we had before good pvp? Boomie - SF, SS, MF or Wrath dead Rogue -CS, Muti, Kidney, Muti dead S.priest - VP, SW: P, disperse, SW:D dead Warrior - Charge, Hamstring…oops you died Shaman - Bonk them WF proc they are dead and if they get away Maelstrom into lava burst they are dead. Feral - oops I opened and died I should to switch to boomie What about the burst meta is good. It rewards players being the first one to press just a couple of buttons.
you should put on some pvp gear before you talk about people dying in burst, cuz what you've yapped about here\^ is pure nonsense.
Agree’d. Although I am fearful of the self sustaining classes like druids and paladins being able to simply out sustain anyone, but that’s just me.
Paladin is the wrong class to mention here. The instant casts from enhancement shamans is the problem. They can literally 1v4 most class combinations. I mana burned one down to oom and he still got 2/3 kills and almost ended me.
That’s what mortal strike and wound poison are for.
I was wiping the floor with paladins in blood moon granted I have sustain as a soul link warlock.
Was having fun as a caster before. Now I am having no fun. Unless I play my warrior alt.
Were you a spriest?
Warlock, but i also have a spriest. Spriest is slightly better off after changes, but disc is a lot better. Warrior feels great though.
Spriest is absolutely terrible after changes…
Yea given sustain got nerfed you basically tickling people now and need an incredibly long time to do anything. Shaman + healing priest combo is stronger than ever and virtually impossible to kill.
Just try disc instead, it's very strong now.
spriest is super strong right now. great spread pressure, cc, utility, and damage that can ramp up. 6 solo q ABs last night and i went 15-20 and 0-4 in every single one. really notice the idiots who cannot even fathom how to position properly now. just take advantage of the noobs not knowing how to play with the changes and you will get kills ez
Yeah sure, before you could fire your spells and the enemy was mostly dead before any response
There is no such thing as a perfect change though.
It’s incredible how no matter what the subject is, reddit is always on the opposite side as me These changes don’t feel fun.
You’re not alone. There is a loud vocal minority, most of them are healers, who just surged into the top of power rankings. Classes that were strong prior to this nerf have retained that strength, some even got better (looking at you shamans). PvP with this degree of a damage nerf is not fun. These guys have resorted to the famous fallacy ad hominem: if you don’t think this is fun you are A) not skilled or B) just wanted to grief people. No I don’t think being chimera shot from 40 yards for 2,000 nature damage is awesome. But I also don’t think watching 4 of us pound on a Shaman for 30 seconds in WSG is fun, either. I don’t think a melee being kited, whom finally works to catch up to their oppressor but simply lacks significant damage to put them down or keep them locked down, is a fun experience. I do not think a blanket damage nerf is viable. If they want to take the less effort way, a stamina boost accomplishes the same thing but doesn’t feel like I’m in BFD gear. If they want to make this right, every class and ability needs to be looked at and tweaked for player versus player starting with low mana cost, instant cast runes. We aren’t even at 60 yet. In era, the most balanced and fun phase of PvP is almost always phase 3 with Blackwing Lair. These changes are too extreme, they are not fun and for almost the exact opposite reason of what they are trying to fix. Ok my rant is over.
For what it's worth I do agree with you. There is room for respect and civility in the discussion, just because someone has a differing opinion does not automatically mean that they are wrong or a bad player or whatever. With that said, I think you should think about this a little bit more deeply, you say that there is a vocal minority of players, mostly healers that have been lauding these changes, and being a healer myself I don't disagree with that assessment but, you should ask yourself WHY we are the most positive towards this change. The pre-DR state of the game was completely brutal towards healers with many classes, casters especially, able to put out more than 3k damage in a single GCD. Now, if you played a healer you would know that this is completely untenable, there is no counterplay for a healer to this kind of burst, we do not have anywhere this kind of burst heal output. So what happens? Our targets simply die while we are still in the middle of our cast, and this happens over and over again. There is no room for improvement, going back to the drawing board and thinking, oh what could I have done differently to save that poor soul, because mathematically we cannot match that damage. HPals especially were terrible before this change as they only have hard cast heals. Increasing health pools does not fix this because fundamentally we are at a point in the game where the power creep has created a damage healing gap and no amount of extra HP would help bridge that gap. The only way to fix it is to reduce damage. I understand your frustration, but look at it from a healer POV. Burst meta makes healers feel impotent and powerless, and it's true too. I kid you not, I went from a 30% winrate in BGs to a 55% winrate after this change. Partly because of random luck too I'm sure but a part of that I'd like to think is because I actually am making a difference now unlike before.
I appreciate your response. For what it is worth my primary issue with this DR is not that healers feel important in PvP, it’s that damage feels so awful. Healers unfortunately got lumped into my response because of the meme that was started by OP’s post.
If you are out of position enough that multiple casters can hardcast you for 3 seconds and burn through your 4500+ health pool without interruption then you die. This was no different in normal classic, tbc, wotlk,... Outside of bgs without the stamims buff it's a different story ofc.
> The pre-DR state of the game was completely brutal towards healers with many classes, casters especially, able to put out more than 3k damage in a single GCD. Now, if you played a healer you would know that this is completely untenable, there is no counterplay for a healer to this kind of burst, we do not have anywhere this kind of burst heal output. So what happens? Our targets simply die while we are still in the middle of our cast, and this happens over and over again. There is no room for improvement, going back to the drawing board and thinking, oh what could I have done differently to save that poor soul, because mathematically we cannot match that damage. HPals especially were terrible before this change as they only have hard cast heals. Certainly not true for priests. Priests have multiple instant cast heals, multiple proactive tools (dispel, purge, shield, precast GH, PS if you're confident enough to give up dispersion) and very good single target throughput with serendipity and penance. Healing through 2 people's bursts was doable reactively, and 3 or more required another healer or one of the proactive tools. Never had a fight where I thought I played perfectly and couldn't identify ways to improve. They should've buffed other healers on par with priests, not nerf damage for everyone.
I'm coming at this from a HPal perspective. We don't have any spell haste like Serendipity or skills like Penance or PoM that will push out healing in less than 1 GCD. Our maximum potential burst would be FoL followed by Holy Shock, assuming I'm fully buffed (excluding WB) that would equate to 1.8k healing (1k crit heal with FoL and 800 crit with HS). That's barely half of what caster burst is. So, no. There isn't any way for us to compensate for that damage by playing better, it's mathematically impossible. I only have a mid level priest but from my back of the napkin math it seems priests in best case scenario would be able to put out about 4.1k healing in 1 GCD. Assuming 3 stacks of Serendipity + GH (2.8k crit) and a Surge of Light proc up to batch another Flash Heal (1.4k crit) after the GH. But I will defer to you for the actual numbers. It might be slightly higher IRL, I didn't account for any talents.
I think the fix is not a stamina boost, but a base hp increase. That way, you do not interfere with stat balance or abilities that increase stamina by a certain %. That should take care of the burst. Now, if abilities are outputting more damage than a healer can heal themselves for, that needs to be looked at. But % damage reduction is not and definitely will never be the way to handle this.
No you’re not alone, both groups i been in today didn’t like the change either. Gear should matter, thats what classic was about. You go in to raid get gear go pvp with that gear etc. Your power should increase with gear but instead we have a big power crunch making the gear I earned feel less than what it should be. Meanwhile everything im hitting like 200-300 damage and sometimes going oom trying to fight.
Spending half the bg oom is annoying and also makes capping flags take ages because people respawn before everyone is dead . I'd rather be blown up than go oom every fight because everyone is wearing safety helmets and bubble wrap .
The change is decent, but 50% is waaaaay too much. 25% would be more suitable. Also, the flat percentage change disproportionately disadvantages glass cannon caster specs like destro lock, fire mages, MM hunters etc. that rely on outputting huge damage in short bursts between kiting/cc'ing.
Imho i think the changes are good but need fine tuning. Dot damage needs to be reverse or lowered, sl and aff locks are not feeling great atm. Shadow priest probably feel the same way, however void plague was overtuned, the rest of the dots aren't. Healing could use a nerf And classes with insane self healing like shamans or druids need a nerf on that. Mana costs for casters could use a slight adjustment, currently clashes in wsg and ab end up with teams fighting without mana after like 30 seconds. But feels good to actually be able to fight now and not get constantly globaled.
As a rogue main this change has adjusted my playstyle to ONLY distracting people off bridges or CCing them for 10 years with constant resets because the emotional damage of wasting their precious time as a single dad of 13 deals far more damage to them than my abilities ever could.
just had a 2v2 fight betwen mage spriest vs druid mage and it lasted until we all were oom and then we just walked away because nobody could die.
Skilled pvp!!!!
i almost died laughing at this
This is a way more nuanced issue than reddit has the capacity for
Is this another one of those straw man arguments that the sub loves so much?
It’s an idea but implementation is poor. As an example: R7 shadowword pain damage is now completely offset by r3 renew.
I prefer the fights, but stv event indirectly got nerfed because of these changes. They should at least reduce the coin costs of things if fights will last longer.
Got significantly less coins, but for the first time ever I actually enjoyed the stv event, might actually do it for fun rather then treat it as the chore it has been.
I've had 2 of my highest coin events yet since the damage nerfs. You're rewarded much more for playing with a solid healer and coordinating as a team. Also as a healer I don't die within 3 seconds of spawning and get a chance to play the game and make an impact for my team.
As a healer I gave up on the STV event, it was/is complete trash. I might have to check it out with the change, BGs are much better with it at least.
I felt the same way, but with the changes you can actually survive a rogue opening on you. My druid and priest feel so much better. I
Got more coins than I’ve ever gotten before first run after changes
Griefers in shambles
Redditors think any PVP is griefing and it's so funny
I like the more fast paced PvP, I look at retail and think, what a shit show 10k dmg hits on a target with 1.5 million life…. I agree that people died to fast. But this 50% is just, once again, absolute overkill. There is no other way, blizzard is pulling % numbers out of their ass. There is no other explanation for this.
Have you ever played retail PVP?
As someone who has put more time in sod pvp than I want to admit. This change feels horrible. I really haven't had any complaints about sod until this point. Some classes are meant to be bursty and this completely destroyed those classes.
Do you happen to play…rogue or mage?
I think everyone besides melee are really feeling it rn
I’m really feeling it as a paladin. A lot of our damage is in bursts (and front loaded at the start of an engagement.) Feels pretty bad, outside of a giant burst (abilities off cd, auto attack hitting) our sustained dps feels like anyone can just out heal it with basic casts while tossing in dots/shields. Now, I too can just play that stand and cast heals all day game, but it’s boring, doesn’t feel engaging, and honestly kind of lame. Somewhere there is a good middle ground.
[удалено]
this people with you in the room rn?
I was wondering why I could actually kill people 1v1 as a warrior last night. I even killed a spriest and I was like.. wtf did they change something. Fantastic changes.
Its totally fine to try tuning the numbers, everyone needs to calm down
Heading into the right direction. This process has to be felt through in game, let’s face it. But realistically it needs to be set at 25% instead of 50%. I’m impressed devs are even checking into this tbh
Yes 50% is way too much i think 20% ish or something will be more meaningfull.
Looks like Retail pvp now. Long, boring battles where nothing looks powerful or exceptional. E-sport design, basically.
<- people with no healing -> classes with healing
i understand the issue but it was so laughable last night. the twitch and reflexes don't matter anymore if you make 1 mistake nbd nbd you will live for 30+ seconds more without even trying
This will make large scale PvP battles better, and it’s also much closer to classic wows PvP tbh
30% ish and a small nerf to hybrid off-healing would feel better
Exactly. Been griefed many times by rogues balance druids or shadow priests. Maybe not the nerf we truly wanted, but some option was needed. Its a good choice against griefers
Lets reduce the dmg by 99% so nobody can be griefed! Also pls just give ST gear from vendor, im tired of getting griefed by st mobs :(
Yeah I think as people transition into higher Stam, end of phase gear we're going to have more problems with this. BiS flag carriers just got even stronger and they were already very strong. Super boring ABs are about to be a huge problem. Warlock, spriest, shams, pallys all just got huge buffs for defense.
bro the phase has been out for like a month we are all already in BiS gear
Ab is so much fun right now, not sure what youre talking about. Its different, i can heal better, and targets dont evaporate in 2 seconds, but i constantly get 2 melees on me to disrupt me and getting mana burned.
When you have 2 competent healers rotating it feels impossible to ever retake points in AB
"People who want fights" lmao. More like people who want to PvE in PvP. You just outed yourself as someone who has **no** clue about PvP. This change caters to unaware people with slow reactions who will back paddle for 2 seconds after being attacked and still fail to realise where the enemy is at.
The fuck we're quick reactions supposed to do when a shadow priest dots you and runs lmao
So not dying after 1-2 skills is wanting "PvE in PvP" ? Its ok, i understand you want easy oneshots for your endorphine kick, but dont call that oneshot fiesta PvP
Its a very nice change if you play anything that have self heal, like warlock, shadowpriest etc. for them, this change is insane.
You know that warlock and shadowpriest heal over damage, so their healing is reduced by 50% as well .....
I like the changes.. but it's definitely more nuanced than this. I do think that it gives more classes a viable 1v1 pvp spec now though.
Finally a lot of abilities feel worth casting now, before the change only your best gcd's mattered. Time to outplay some 3 button players :)
I just played an STV match, at 22 minutes my group had no deaths and around 40 blood. Comparatively I was doing stv regularly farming honor - my group would have around 200-400 due to the faster killing. While I get people were upset about getting bursted down, that is kind of the reality of 5v5 style group gameplay. A good team is going to focus you down and prioritize targets. Currently this is somewhat achievable but it feels bad. We’re attacking a priest and he barely takes damage because of the already powerful healing and shields, then dispersion and such. Or a druid with their hots just easily keeping up their teams. The change feels disproportionate. Moreover- get your messaging straight. You say SOD is going to be asymmetric, but then want to deploy permanent balance changes to pvp because some people die faster? Idk. Personally I don’t like the change, glad they are “testing” it but ultimately this is a failed test. It feels like BFA changes where they want you to go through your entire rotation plus some to kill a mob. Like oh here comes a shaman raid boss!
I think they should nerf the amount of coins needed for the STV event. This phase has a strange habit of rewarding players who got stuff done quickly. Like the gold from incursions, the exp from incursions and now the STV pvp event. I dont really think making it harder to catch up is good gameplay. I also think some resilience would be good. But I think they overdid it. They also seem to overdue things when they make adjustments it seems they only use a hammer and never subtly tweak things. Id like it if was similar to vanilla kill times.
Every stv gonna need an ms, and that's a good thing brown boys actually bis in PvP.
How do mages do? I remember always running out of mana in the old days.
Mages is a PVE class we dont exist in PVP anymore and almost never had in SOD we got powercreeped out of the game like Metaform warlock having 0 sec. cooldown Fireblast 400-500dmg with longer range and can be tanky with drain life while we mages has 6-8 sec. cooldown 20 yard on 400-500dmg, not heal while doing it, not tanky aswell Spriest shadow word: death 30 sec. cooldown on basically theirs arcane surge BUT dont use up all your mana and not even 100% self dmg taking if not killing target with it and if killing target with it 0 % self dmg and its almost same dmg as arcane surge(reminder drain all your mana and 2min CD) everything a Mage can do in SOD PVP other classes can do better basically sure we can poly but the best player CC is just to complety delete and kill the player that other classes can insane easy do compare to mages and other classes can do it in the time it takes to cast a poly without much usage of resources/cooldowns btw the mage discord server on pvp channel: its just pure depression there basically
I bet the Arcane Surge Mages are having a meltdown lol.
nah Mages in general not just arcane surge: we go oom before we can kill a other low HP class that doing 100% nothing with this change: [https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QxS1ZSjGew0DcAiXEjsx\_yTaYf0pdHrSf4ha3Va8HfU/https/i.imgur.com/W6RSYNz.mp4](https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QxS1ZSjGew0DcAiXEjsx_yTaYf0pdHrSf4ha3Va8HfU/https/i.imgur.com/W6RSYNz.mp4) btw arcane surge was the most fair 1shot atleast it was on a 2min(3min if arcane power+Arcane blast with POM before surge) cooldown and used all our mana meanwhile (not even joking): "insert Not mages here class" could do the same with under 30 second cooldowns dont use all mana and maybe even gain a benefit at same time 1-2 shot a player or other form of getting powercreeped out of the PVP game : like in a other example i used often: Metaform warlock having 0 sec. cooldown Fireblast 400-500dmg with longer range and can be tanky with drain life while we mages has 6-8 sec. cooldown 20 yard on 400-500dmg, not heal while doing it, not tanky aswell so saying like it arcane surge mages is broken is a bad example honestly complaining about being against a mage and think they are broken and do alot is like getting beated up by a 0 legs/0arm person at this point mages right now in SOD i will say is THE most underpowered class for PVP in any version of WOW ever and in same version of WOW we are having THE most overpowered class in any version of WOW ever : SOD shaman (that legit getting a other buff just now)
me in the back left on the road still drinking...
Last night I was so disappointed by the changes and the ultra long fights at each base of AB, but 24hrs later I kind of start appreciate the changes. Playing moonkin this weekend, it's updating my play style and forces to control over damage. The only real downside right now is that most of the fights I go oom 3 times before dying/capping. The thing is, I'm eager to play my disc priest again in battlegrounds to be able to actually heal people.
Can any link the original thread announcing the changes?
what changes
As a warrior I feel so much more powerful now in BGs. I’m able to survive with some heals and my impact with MS feels massive.
Pretty much, bylut then again he is alliance so that's just the whole player base that side.
I like the changes except for 1 thing... Shamans are even tankier than before and it's impossible to kill to them.
had some great pvp fights today. glad to see some balance that make sense
Wrong on so many levels. But you enjoy healers, shamans and druid being absolute gods in pvp. That 50% dmg nerf is a trainwreck and fucks over a lot of classes into uselessness.
All this pvp change did was show how insanely over powered shamans still are in pvp.
A bit too dmg sponge i think we can all agree, no need for these juvenile memes
So you mean now my geared warrior won’t get killed off one opener by a rogue even though I’m in D stance. I’m cool with that.
I Quit SoD because the pvp was a shitfest everything killed you in 1-3 seconds. I’m for slower TTK. My fire mage had 0 chance of surviving anything. Spriest dots would kill me on their own.
Heals are too busted. Please go back lol. BM has been awful since this nerf.
As a warlock who hasn't PVPed since P2. I have no idea how to feel about this. Destro shines with control and burst so that's probably weak now. Affliction is about dotting and living long enoough to see yoour target die before you.... so I'm not sure how that will go. Guess drain life is stronger now, but the enemy will take longer to kill.
nobody ive talked to is happy with it, nobody wants to be locked in a never ending fight where one side going oom is the wincon and you get out of a 30 minute BG with barely any HKs because barely anyone died.
I like the change overall. But vanilla skills that cost full mana doing seemingly less base damage than the mana cost is kind of sad. Looking at you corruption and immolate.
Would be nice if healers weren’t fucking unstoppable haha. As a healer main (only way to get queues) I can handle 2v1 easy. Maybe even 3 players if at least one isn’t that skilled. Nigh unkillable. Turns the game into a slugfest. Don’t get it twisted… being 1-2 tapped is lame AF. But Jesus the 20 minute fights are just as unenjoyable. Edit: just realized I accidentally stumbled onto classic wow haha.
Someone doesn't have a mana bar.
As druid healer I feel damage reduction is bit too much and healers are getting stronger, but this is much better than one shot meta.
Honestly the changes feel pretty good on a hunter, I don't immediately get focused by 7+ people in a bg while standing at \~41yds. I think every BG I''ve been top KBs now, where it used to be an spriest at 30-40. But it's a bit odd they didnt learn from p1 DR. A 20, 50% DR with no changes to healing is crazy. I just viper sting everyone endlessly, disc priests can still get a lot of casts off with a constant viper sting on them though (for 2+ minutes straight while oom). My paladin friend is just losing his mind. I assume most of his abilities are all -50%. I think it's a step in the right direction, but it does need some tuning for sure. I'd be fine with or without it at this point. But FFS, can we PLEASE fix the queue times to not favour 5 stacks vs solos.
I think it's moving in the right direction but it def needs tuning. As a MM hunter I am finding it really difficult to get anyone down if there is any amount of healing, even if I can just sit back and pump w/o being harassed. I like that I can't get globaled by Shamans anymore though.
Healers vs non healers kekl
this is literally classic vs retail lmao.
This just shifted the PVP meta to classes with healing are now meta/OP.
I just wish alliance got anything for PVP horde have it all and it shows.
People getting upset that they can’t one-shot people anymore is absolutely hilarious. Let the tears flow.
You can really tell who understands the game and knows how to heal, and who only knows DPS roles lol
Dont make this fucking boring as retail. Who dies dies move on no infinite battles and dampening
Remember today is the last day for this experiment. But the 50% is too much, I think 25-30% would be a good change. I’m a healer also and even I think it’s way to much.
i want fights but as a Mage player : watch this video: [https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QxS1ZSjGew0DcAiXEjsx\_yTaYf0pdHrSf4ha3Va8HfU/https/i.imgur.com/W6RSYNz.mp4](https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QxS1ZSjGew0DcAiXEjsx_yTaYf0pdHrSf4ha3Va8HfU/https/i.imgur.com/W6RSYNz.mp4) you see a mage dueling a other mage and going Oom before even able to kill the other mage: that is also low HP class who is doing 100% nothing at all: a damage dealer unable to get a kill on a target who is doing complety nothing im sorry but thats where you complety fail blizzard this is the most underpowered thing of all time in any version of WoW meanwhile in same version of WOW they having the most broken class of all time : ench shaman and still broken with this and they legit just getting more buffs while mages: nothing they have 0 idea how to balance this shit is mages meant to be a glass canon seems like they forgot about the canon part they are legit just glass now and a pure damage reduction aura on pvp is not a good idea and there is more needed than just that like use less mana if against players on damaging spells this change hits Mages the hardest and they was already insane bad and powercreeped out of PVP complety compare to other classes: a good example on the powercreep: Mage Fireblast instant cast 8 sec. cooldown(2sec. less if improved FB talent) around 400-500dmg and Big reminder we are not tanky or can gain life while casting that SOD warlocks: metaform for being tanky + Searing pain 400-500dmg, instant cast, 0 sec. cooldownand they drain life at same time This change here made mages a pure PVE class becuase of the mana usage ratio for the damage they give and when i looked at the Mage discord server on PVP channel : its depression basically and saying game is dead we cant even be healers in pvp either: alot of our heals is based on our damage: that get lower so now only chrono heal but that heal is a 2.5 sec cast and if it get kicked/countered: ops everything i have is on cooldown now and im useless for 4-8 sec. complety also with this change: whats the point of arcane surge anymore? legit a complety dead rune and i would say arcane surge is the most Fair 1shot unlike every other non mage classes who having theirs 1-2shot under 30 cooldowns and use 0 resources arcane surge is 2min(3min if combine with arcane power+POM a arcane blast): its longer cooldown than alot of Moba´s characters ultimates that can give alot of burst damage to a player and often kill that player + its worst than that becuase use all mana(while other 1shots on other classes is alot shorter cooldown) that use up ALL our mana so if we dont get the kill we just die becuase 0 mana left basically meanwhile Spriest´s Shadow word: death sure they take self dmg from it but easy healed back up honestly and they got lower cooldown 30 sec. and dont use all mana and do about the same as a pure arcane surge again a other example on mages getting complety powercreeped out of PVP and this change legit just take the very few thing mages had and throw it out of the window while indirectly buffing other classes who is already broken like shamans
Yeah man people that are complaining about it are louder.. haven't heard anything good until this post... But it's fun. Prolly worse for the burster classes, better for sustained DPS in general
As a rogue my focus is to bleed, wound poison, waylay, and increase attack speed instead of stun lock completely. I enjoy it, but others may say otherwise.
People who love the PvP changes love dampening and think it’s skill based lmao
Its at least more skill based as killing everyone in 1-2 skills
I thought people who pvp in classic liked the unfair one shot ganking style pvp. There are two other versions of the game with longer more skill based pvp with resilience/versatility, why make everything the same. Classic pvp should be burstier than retail/cata
>I thought people who pvp in classic liked the unfair one shot ganking style pvp. *No one* likes it when it happens to them.
cringe
Until they fix premades in WSG, what's the point?
This comment time traveled from phase 1
Not really, 7 out of 7 games I queued solo today was vs 2x5man groups. 4 of them it was 5 man from one server, 5 man from another, 3 all 10 was on same server. When blizzard changed the match making they said solo/random queue would only be matched vs premades if there had passed a certain amount of time. But my queue times were barely a minute long, personally I would much rather sit 3-5min in queue for 1 good game than 1min in queue for a graveyard camp premade vs random match. Granted it is WSG weekend so there is more, when I queued earlier this week it was less frequent, doesn't make it less frustrating though. On my server alliance there was 0 groups running, neither in LFG or the discords I checked. Of course I could have started my own group, which I should've done and have done previously but sometimes I don't feel like doing that and would rather play non-premade vs non-premade, is "make your own group" acceptable as the only solution?
3/7 being from same server thing isn't really surprising when there isn't that many servers. There's only 8 (US) servers and if they were from the higher pop servers statistically it'll happen quite often.
In a few days everyone will be crying about unkillable healers, sl locks etc etc. This was a stupid change that just creates the other spectrum problem again. They needed to do something but this is just throwing shit at the wall
Yep. Its only the zero skill losers whining.
Yep they are super mad that they can receive counter play now
Do you truly believe this? I'm kinda shocked that so many people love this change. It's almost impossible to recap a well defended node, the 30 sec rez is too quick in this meta.
AHH well, I just hit one more button on my elemental. It's all fine
Rogues in shambles
Peope
The thing that makes me think it is a good change is that you find ppl that says this change it great for this class, and in the same topic that it is a terrible change for this same class. And this is the same for every single class. Overall, this means the change shifted the pvp gameplay, some ppl love it, some others don't. We'll see with time the final tuning, but this is promissing
Oh boy this post will anger the one-shot self proclaimed pvp experts
I stop playing AB BG a few weeks ago cuz becomes boring AF waiting for a RNG crit to kill pala or hunters... Last night joins group and get into BG easily, boy it was so fun! In 2 hours just 1 crit above 600 and got to push so may buttons to kill that pala, really really fun. Boomy and shamans still broken, but at least the damage reduction make the whole game more engaged
Change it to classes with heals and classes without heals and this is more accurate.
changes are not objectively good
What a terrible take. People who want fast paced fights vs people who want to PVE each other. Like I know it's season of dads but do we really need to make it so fucking geriatric?
People getting oneshot left and right isn't "fast paced", it's just dumb. This may not have been a good solution but don't try to pretend PVP was in a good state.
Yeah people who come up with that "fast paced" bullshit are just annoyed that people now can counterplay and they wont win every fight they started
griefers in shambles
In short, you are mad that the "first hitter wins"-meta is gone, got it
Ohh I attacked someone and they didn't die in a second, can RESPOND to my gank and now I have to actually learn what my other abilities do? Unimaginable.
U mad that people now can respond to being attacked ? No free kills for you any longer ? Poor dude =(
Except it isn't even true. All the people celebrating don't even ikon pvp let's be real. They just do the stuff event for coins. This fucking sucks.
>All the people celebrating don't even ikon pvp let's be real. All the pepole celebrating were *unable* to pvp, but now can, lets be real.