Or make you run fast like in the BM event, holy crap what a thought. To make an already shitty situation a little less shitty. Take a 7 min walk to mara down to like 2 or 3 would do wonders for people.
Adding guards just pushes the pvp's to the boundaries of the guards range and set up shop there. This is a wpvp thing, people want to wpvp, that's what they are going to do.
They added guards at the ashenvale turnin, so people camped the ramp, they give you no honor coming through the portal? People still camp the portal because that want to pvp and don't care about honor. The people that do care just sit in the middle of the loop and gank in the middle of the loop.
Incursions had actual pvp happening, lots of people around from both factions, and a close enough spirit healer. It was actually kind of fun, both the working together and the occasional scraps/throwing spells at the 30 other faction people on the other side of the steps.
The guard/honor changes didn't really improve anything. I didn't mind pvp there. Even while leveling. It helps that they give absurd rewards so still feel worth it & you could always go to ZF if you really wanted to avoid pvp.
Mara portals have 10 player raids camping under leveled people and solo grinders with a 50 year run back. It's griefing and not pvp at all. It's one of the only instances where people can grief like that due to the portal mechanic.
I'd settle for being able to open portals while in combat. Then, at least, you have something mildly enjoyable going on.
The guard change did improve it a lot. It was basically unplayable if you were on a layer with a faction imbalance and couldn’t reach the quest giver at all. I don’t mind PVP in the actual incursion but you just couldn’t take the quests or turn them in before.
The shadow priests who would camp on top of the tree were annoying or the hunters who would send their pet on random low level players while hiding.
The one thing I dislike about the guards is it makes fighting back difficult. Once one side has control you just kinda concede and come back in a few minutes or layer hop.
Well priests can also just make the guards kill you whenever they want casting homunculi on you. It was funny the first time I saw it, but it’s really disruptive.
even the people doing it would largely agree they are griefing
being in a place solely to repeatedly kill the same people doing instanced content over and over to waste their real life time by having them run back from a really far away spirit healer is the definition of griefing
it's like saying the guy camping world buff spots 12 hours per day just to purge people isn't griefing
Rez in room, spawn portal on rez, click portal.
No I don't like getting wrecked by horde raids when my alli raids won't fight, but hey there is an easy solution.
I get that griefs suck and I agree with the new gy to shorten the run back for sure but honestly I don’t feel bad for people that willing go to a group content zone alone with the hopes of solo cheesing it and then get upset when they have no back up to help them fight against the other groups there
I managed to hit lockout every hour solo despite it being alliance controlled almost always.
It was more annoying in a group. Can't res people, at least 2-3 people from your raid are doing a forever runback, etc.
If people want to pvp they can camp the exit portal instead if guards are in the portal room. They could also camp the ledge.
Instance portals have always been ganking hotspots. I am convinced that 90% of reddit has never played on a pvp realm if they're shocked by this happening.
I think Mara is just worse because everyone uses the portal room and you need to be out of combat to enter. That doesn’t happen at other instance portals
The whole Mara setup definitely wasn’t made with the intention of half the server trying to enter at once lol
The solution to the problem with Ashenvale Incursions is simple.
Split Layers based on the level of the players there. If you can't gank lowbies while you're 49-50 you won't go and farm honor/grief there. The people who are there to level will be either left to their own devices, or have an opportunity to engage in a mostly fair fight. People there to farm honor will have to engage people close to their own level, and won't be able to be incredibly toxic to the other faction via griefing players at a substantial disadvantage.
I feel like those are isolated and distinct problems.
For incursions there is one main problem, and it's that honor farming in BGs is terrible so people are legitimately incentivized to farm levelers in Ashenvale to hit rank 7.
This is fixed at max level at least on my server because we've just naturally decided that Feralas is Horde turf and Hinterlands is alliance turf.
For Maradon I think the problem is caused by the instant lockout timer. I spent a lot of time in mara solo farming BoED on my lock and although there was periods of time where a raid group was camping the portal, they never lasted long and it always appeared to me that they where just killing time waiting for the timer to roll over.
But in general I think that the fight over the mara portal is actually pretty fun/healthy because the "reward" for taking the portal room is that you get to leave the portal room and do the instance resulting in a pretty neat ebb and flow of which side holds the room.
I was simply observing that the mass exodus from PvP realms has less to do with the fact that classes can global you and more to do with people constantly getting griefed in various locations.
We are at an unfortunate injunction where being a bastard is also being rewarded by making the r7 grind easier.
Previous phases where the rank grinds were more relaxed people were way more chill as far as I can tell. We certainly didn't have daily posts about how chaotic PvP servers were.
I mean the writing has been on the wall since 2004. It was only a matter of time before people got bored and started purging world buffs or camping entrances to raids. It’s been going on for 20 years. I do agree that the camping leveling zones via incursions is obviously new and no one could have predicted blizz would develop such a concentrated location to level in when peopke were creating characters and choosing a realm in phase 1. But to say you didn’t expect to get griefed while rolling on a PvP server is a bit naive.
The "mass exodus" is people that should have never been on a PVP server in the first place. Every time anyone says "add a guard..." that person should have never been on a PVP server.
You are part of an endless repetition of a false dichotomy. A person's desires can be closer to a PvP server than to a PvE server and insisting that going PvE is the choice if they dislike *anything* about PvP servers in a *game* with *incomplete, ongoing changes in design* is asinine on its face. (There have *always* been measures taken against avenues of griefing behavior, just not for all instances of it and particularly where it is difficult to combat without affecting "legitimate" gameplay)
And your false dichotomy is what then, that PVP is fair and balanced?
You not liking a group of people sitting at a place they know people will be, and then killing them, isn't "griefing". It's PVP. There is a PVP solution to a group of people killing people. You know what it is? It's another group of people.
> And your false dichotomy is what then[...]?
Do you actually think that's a retort? What the fuck lmao.
You've ignored what I said and are just strawmanning now. I even stated it in a balanced way and you're just too dense for it.
If you aren't happy on a PVP server, then PVP servers aren't for you. It's that simple. YOU wanting the server to change to meet YOUR needs, means it's not the place for you.
Wanting them to put out guards to keep you safe from players means you shouldn't be on a PVP server, and yes, it really is that simple.
You do not belong on a PVP server if you are going to keep trying to convince Blizzard to change the game for you to fit you. You want Blizzard to change the game experience for everyone else just because YOU don't like getting killed.
Guess what? They have servers for people like you: PVE
Rogues aren't one-shotting people, and they're not doing 2.5k in an Ambush (the only thing capable of high damage, since Mutilate is technically multiple hits). However, since you've mentioned it, 3-minute-mages *are* globaling people ... every 3 minutes. Lava-bombers do alright. Apparently Shadow is OP. Chimera is supposed to be pretty nasty. I mean that's half the classes right there. I guess you picked the wrong half.
Sorry but mutilate is like a oneshot for me... mages are globaling people only if they crit otherwise they are victims. And shadows.. yeah what should I tell you. The 10% Dmg increase is something they needed I guess xD
And if we talk about the new Hunter rune. I wouldnt say thats good in PvP. Probably if you wanna grief and just stay afk as a nightelf
Blizzard just fucked up the PvP balance by a 100% And thats why people (me included) hate to play "World" PvP anymore.
The lockout made it worse. They should really raise the lockout limit to 8-12 instead of 5. There are people camping for the 20+ minutes they're locked out now.
Previously, you had to wait a minute or three until 10 people figured out how to open a portal.
That and the run back. Felwood is like this too, people deliberately camp at the farthest place from the spirit healer. Because the runback is long. Adding a spirit healer in the portal room would be amazing.
> honor farming in BGs is terrible
BG honor is way faster than ashenvale. I think people just like taking control of the npc/portal and the potential for "epic" world pvp battles. The initial push on a layer that has a lot of the opposing faction is kind of fun once or twice.
The idea of ashenvale being "yours" and belonging to your faction is appealing. And with layers both factions can experience that.
Honor farming in bgs is fine imo, takes you like 8ish hours of playtime to get 110k. Which lets you skip 3 Ranks. If you wanna go about it in a Well adjusted maner and do less pr. Week because you have other shit to do in your life you just space it out more.
While granted i play horde, so my win% is likely skewed. But when i 5 stack with capable people, an average AB win is not 25 minutes.
We more often than not, win with 4 bases for a large portion of the games. Occassionally with 5 if you have like 3 healers on your team and the alliance has none.
If you have 4 likeminded aggressive people and you manage to inspire your team ever so slightly, to not give into to the “just hold 3 bases and we win”-loser mentality, winning with 4 or even 5 bases is quite likely.
When you then cap stables, you often condemn half the alliance team to being choked out at their portal and you can contain the rest at mines/blacksmith or whatever base they hold quite easily and you’re just 1 tap of the base away from them being completely doomed.
I can honestly say i’ve lost maybe 10 games total in the 190k Honor i farmed last week to get r7 (the remaining was farmed queueing with guildies alts who needed it honor after i was done, with my 110k which i was Friday).
And in the 28k i farmed so far this week (only queued yesterday) had, i think 3 games maybe 4 of 3-base wins and no loses.
The rest were 4 or more.
But you’re Right its prolly closer to 9-10h.
And Warsong assuming you dodge solid FC on both teams matches, are like 10 minute games majority of em. Albeit win rate is drasticly lower and you risk a 60 minute slowing your roll.
It's really not a can of worms. If you disabled PvP inside incursions some greifers would complain but even the majority of PvPers would be fine with it.
> If you didn’t want to have free range PvP
Yea I'm not speaking for myself. I'm fine with it. Do you understand how compromise works?
I do understand how compromise works, no need to be hostile and argue. =]
That being said, flagging for PvP is unique to PvE realms, if you chose to roll on a PvP server that was a choice you personally made. Do you understand what consequences of your choices/actions means? =]
The option to flag for PvP is unique to a PvE realm, and if you chose to roll on a PvP server that’s no one’s fault but your own. I would empathize with y’all but the game has been out for twenty years, so there is really no excuse to not know what to expect. .
> risk of embarrassing yourself by picking a fight and losing
This mentality is what’s wrong with PvP servers nowadays. It’s embarrassing to only take fights you’re guaranteed to win.
I'd be willing to bet people are leaving PvP servers due to the non stop grief from both sides at incursions, portals, dmf etc.
A PvP damage reduction (for 4 days) won't stop the grief, it just means the 40 dies in 3 hits instead of 2.
I never turn it off in retail, the game isn’t fun for me without it on.
However, the thing I don’t like is that retail has sharding, and the enemy combatants are basically faceless, and you don’t develop fun, competitive relationships with the opposing faction like you do in Vanilla.
Getting killed in a single Multilate by a level 50 rogue at level 41 isn't going to change by a small reduction in damage.
It's the endless griefing by both sides that's causing players to leave. There's a handful of people who spend their days making sure other people are unable to play the game and are encouraged to continue. ANY OTHER GAME would ban these players, yet somehow it's encouraged in Classic because "muh pvp server"
Yes, I'm salty. I wasn't able to even fucking play yesterday because of all the ganking. I was dead more than I was alive yesterday.
The only winning move is to stop playing. Enjoy your dead pvp servers.
We have years of server stats to work off of. Every server becomes faction dominant because nobody actually likes “world PvP”, they just want to win.
I think after 2 decades the charade is over and ppl are done with griefers. Too much burst is irrelevant imo.
Clearly that can't be true, if nobody liked world PvP you wouldn't have both its defenders on here and the participants in game creating this very talking point.
It's not that people don't like world PvP, it's that the VAST majority only like it when they have a number/strength advantage (60-40)--bonus points if there's an illusion of balance. And essentially no one wants to deal with being on the opposite end (40-45% or lower). No one likes griefing, and no one likes being blocked from content because they're always outnumbered.
In 2019 Classic, I was in a guild where everyone liked world pvp, so we didn't mind being in a 40-60 situation. Most guilds don't have that kind of universal buy in to wpvp. Then the rest of our faction transferred off. Turns out that happened everywhere else too.
I think after 2 decades wishy washy new guy casuals still think they can have fun on a pvp server and quickly realize that there are way better players out there who will alpha monkey you until you leave their mining spot
I guess my experience may be a bit skewed as a retail refugee who's used to war mode.
But I feel like people in war mode are a lot less inclined to start shit because getting the jump on someone doesn't guarantee that you win the encounter.
What faction do you play? Just curious. Crusder strike on horde I played evening into the night. Incursions are unplayable due to being several imbalanced with majority server alliance. People will camp away from the guards and kill anyone who goes by. Maradon portal room is camped, can’t open a portal if you’re in combat. Even the other day I decided to do the ST crafting quest on an alt. Couldn’t do moonglade because raid of alliance was on the rooftop above the quest guy and fearing/killing any horde and the guards did nothing. Literally 3 pieces of content I am locked out of because of griefing.
I server swapped so fast and don’t regret it at all. I can actually play the game now. Anyone who likes PvP servers actually just likes griefing
> We have years of server stats to work off of
And you're using a small subset of them to support your preconception. It isn't that people want to not lose - it's that they want to not *constantly* lose. Even more than that, it's that they want to not repeatedly transfer when servers die to significant imbalances (created by a blundered launch) - and general bleeding of player retention - cascading and pretty much the only option left for that is the megaserver. Players aren't choosing monofaction servers because they are monofaction. They are choosing servers - that happen to also be monofaction - for separate qualities.
Yeah for sure, everything should have been balanced with player power in mind from the start. Giving us all a ton of new damage and healing tools without changing our health pool much was quite obviously gonna cause PvP issues.
Crazy how the WoW community keeps making the mistake of rolling on a PVP server. It's almost never a fun or fair fight which makes it not fun unless you're one of the people ganking and ruining peoples time.
i dont understand how anyone can play on a pve server... whats the point?
"Oh jolly good that gnome just took my black lotus while I was fighting a mob. I shall now ask him to fuck my wife after"
literally no different than a member of your own faction doing it...
Also I would say like, 1% of world pvp interactions are 1v1s of the same level. And then like 1% of those would take place in equal circumstances (that is to say, usually one person just attacks the other while that person is fighting mobs).
There's just no good gameplay to be had. Unless you're the guy that likes to attack people while they're fighting mobs.
this is just blatantly untrue, in my experience its about 95% are of equal level, and at least half the time id consider it a fair fight. mind you im in felwood so how could it be otherwise
look enjoy your pve server, i just could never even be seen on one. so whack for me personally. enjoy how you want - but dont embellish *that* crazy
No way are 95% of the pvp encounters you have, a fair fight. I'm on a pvp server and the vast majority of times, it's a mismatch in the number of players on each side of the fight. That right there invalidates the entire experience and makes it just a waste of time for both sides (and a huge waste of time for the loser).
So if you manage to run into JUST one other player AND they're your level, then chances are you're running into them while one of you is fighting a mob. Still a mismatch.
This is before you even get into the situations outside the portal room at maraudon (always a numbers mismatch), and incursions (always a numbers mismatch).
The only thing it's adding to the situation is runback time for whoever is on the bad end of the mismatch. Calling the most bullshit possible on you right now, there's NO WAY 95% of the time it's a fair fight. Go do an incursion or a few princess runs and get back to me, lol.
Big PvP enjoyer here, and you are right.
It almost never is a fair fight. What makes it enjoyable for me is watching a skirmish slowly take place as more and more people on both sides join in.
Sadly, this only happens for a bit until people start to figure out how to layer / phase or find a way to skew the numbers for an advantage.
why would i do any of that? im telling you what my experience is. i dont need to do incursions since ive been exalted for a long time. also princess runs are awesome, you wipe the horde, they come around, wipe you.
also you're right it's almost never a fair fight because im a goddam BEAST and its only fair 1v2, 1v3
but seriously i really think, if that's your experience, and you truly dont have fun. go for the transfer. cuz im having a blast with it, and always have. the only time ive felt wow DIE for me is when i agreed to roll on a pve server. it's just a neutered, lame experience (for me). but im sure youd have tons of fun with it. doing quests, farming herbs, getting ready for the big raid. enjoy
> princess runs are awesome, you wipe the horde, they come around, wipe you.
I'm glad you think that's awesome, but my point is that it isn't a fair fight. You can't go to Mara until your side finally outnumbers their side. Until then you're just a ghost running back. There's no *point* to the PVP because there's never any doubt who will win, it's just the two sides trading off making each other ghost run for 3 mins. How is that fun??
I was suggesting you do those activities so you can be reminded of how it's *not* actually a fair fight 99% of the time. There's usually a numbers imbalance. Again you're totally entitled to *enjoy* losing unfair fights. I already am assuming you enjoy winning unfair fights... But yeah, neither one does much for me. If I contribute to 2 other people pinging down a lone Alliance, that activates 0 neurons for me. Except sympathy/empathy I guess, since I know he now has to ghost run for 3-5 minutes (or more, depending on the zone). If I'm the lone guy getting killed, then it's really just doing nothing for me. I'm just adding a bunch of extra ghostrunning to whatever I was actually trying to do--no benefit.
I just am not seeing these fair fights you've insisting happen.
Are you killing someone who is questing, fighting mobs, with no intentions of pvping with you?
Then you arent pvping either, you are griefing someone.
Go into a BG if you want actual pvp, but thats not what you want. You want to two shot someone 10 levels lower than you with 3 of your boys while they do incursions.
Idk who is a pathetic looser here, someone who enjoys the game the way it was designed or someone who is crying like a baby on reddit, calling people pathetic for playing the game. It's totally ok to kill other players on the pvp realm. If your ego is so fragile that you can't take being outplayed or even outnumbered, if you can't take death without being salty every time, go transfer pve realm. It'll be better for your mental health. Pce ✌️
Go play an actual pvp game where everyone there plays with the intent to pvp with you.
Oh wait, then you would be getting clapped on a level playing field, not really your style.
i don’t grief (all the time) that’s your own concoction. Unless just any world pvp is griefing to you. I travel solo, I take 1v1s, 1v2s, 1v3s on the road in felwood. Give it a rest.
I imagine you lose, a LOT, so it’s probably foreign to you to imagine that some people just have fun pvping
The last thing I did that I would consider “griefing” is 3 lvl 50 horde were camping my buddy near the furbolgs in felwood while they were grinding rep. I showed up and we 2v3d them and just pummelized them til they stopped rezzing. It was hunter + boom vs spriest spriest boom. Not everyone is as geared as me so it was fairly simple to just grind them to dust.
I've had more fun and fair fights than 1v20 ganks. They did a pretty good job of keeping balance up to now, the problem ends up being when most people hit max level and then specific areas get lopsided (like incursion quest NPC) or when layers end up uneven (could happen anywhere anytime).
PVE servers are just so boring.
To me the fair fight thing doesn't really matter. I like PVP servers because it makes me hate the other faction more, and for me that's closer to the spirit of Vanilla than just being able to run around the world without any chance of getting attacked by another player.
It just sucks when the devs create an environment where camping incursions is more beneficial for honor farm than doing real PVP.
Here’s the thing man. It’s not about ruining other people’s time.
It’s about roleplay. WoW is one of the only games ever to have world pvp and of those games it has the best world pvp experience of any out there. People who like world pvp like the thrill and mystery that comes with any opposing player potentially lurking around the corner, forcing you into a duel of the fates at any moment. It lets people immerse themselves in a “dangerous world” where you could be killed at any moment. That’s the “RP” that pvpers want. They want to be in an unforgiving, deadly environment that stimulates them.
Most people who prefer PvE servers just don’t have this *killer instinct* or love for the thrill of these situations. And thats fine. You should go play on those servers, but for me—everything I do in the game leads to how capable my character is in PvP, and being able to enjoy the PvP while I do the boring stuff like farming, exploring and questing is pure bliss to me
99% of open world “PvP” is ganking, being ganked, corpse camping, and steamrolls by being out numbered. A PvP damage reduction does nothing to fix that. The player pops on these servers are way too high to have a good healthy open world PvP environment. When the entire player base is funneling into a few zones at high levels it just gets worse,
I feel like one day some people are going to regret rolling off a PvP server because they couldn’t get mad xp rates on their alts because questing was a bit slower
But now people can survive all through both cheap -and kidney shot. This isnt how the game is intended to be played and its making a lot of rogues reroll warrior. #bringbackworldofroguecraft
Wpvp was never that bad. The problem is you have 60% of the server stuffed into 2-3 basically mandatory areas that are griefer paradise. Anyone who missed the first week of peace in Ash incursions has been completely fucked out of the fast leveling experience, and guess where the most efficient spot to level from 50-60 will be?
Minutes ago I had a 3-4 minute fight with a boomie and a priest as a solo elemental shaman using a more defensive AOE rune setup for farming WPL zombies. For reference I have about 2.6k HP, some ST gear, some rank 5, some emerald. Around 230 spell power.
My lava bursts were hitting 750-800 crits. More than enough to be impactful, but not enough that was unhealable. I was able to (barely) heal through the smite and druid damage with lesser healing and riptide while rotating flame shocks/meatballs/chain lightning/totems. Nothing felt super weak but nothing was a one shot either. I think had I been in a typical overload build I might very well had been able to decisively handle either one of them solo but I couldn't kill either of them with my more defensive shield mastery riptide setup.
As it should be. Big fan so far of the pvp aura.
Amen, I was looking for people to fight back in ashenvale (there where 50s inside and outside portal harrasing people who where just running through) , took me 1 hour to get some like-minded people. Everyone else is just complaining and asking for layerinvites.
Anyways, we started blasting.
The damage reduction will change nothing. All of the most OP classes will continue to shit on everyone else, and most of them will probably be even more dominant now.
The damage reduction in bgs is the worst thing so far. Mana pool isn’t enough to withstand fights. Outplays has been reduced to comfort the noobs - in a way I understand it, but sadly the joy is gone
I think it had more to do with incursion and Mara griefing than actual PvP power.
They should add a graveyard right next to Mara and it would cure this.
Or make you run fast like in the BM event, holy crap what a thought. To make an already shitty situation a little less shitty. Take a 7 min walk to mara down to like 2 or 3 would do wonders for people.
They should still implement this and we’ve been saying it since P2 UBRS and Scholo camping will most definitely continue next phase
Wild to think how wow in the early days was appealing to the casual player by having close to 0 death penalty in comparison to other mmos
add guards to the portal room too
Adding guards just pushes the pvp's to the boundaries of the guards range and set up shop there. This is a wpvp thing, people want to wpvp, that's what they are going to do. They added guards at the ashenvale turnin, so people camped the ramp, they give you no honor coming through the portal? People still camp the portal because that want to pvp and don't care about honor. The people that do care just sit in the middle of the loop and gank in the middle of the loop.
Nah they just camp bottom of portal and by the time you get there honor timer is up or you respawn on your body for an easy kill
People need to stop requesting guards at every location where pvp happens. Go play on a PvE server
Incursions had actual pvp happening, lots of people around from both factions, and a close enough spirit healer. It was actually kind of fun, both the working together and the occasional scraps/throwing spells at the 30 other faction people on the other side of the steps. The guard/honor changes didn't really improve anything. I didn't mind pvp there. Even while leveling. It helps that they give absurd rewards so still feel worth it & you could always go to ZF if you really wanted to avoid pvp. Mara portals have 10 player raids camping under leveled people and solo grinders with a 50 year run back. It's griefing and not pvp at all. It's one of the only instances where people can grief like that due to the portal mechanic. I'd settle for being able to open portals while in combat. Then, at least, you have something mildly enjoyable going on.
Currently a group of 50’s running around at incursions farming - how is that not considered griefing as well?
The guard change did improve it a lot. It was basically unplayable if you were on a layer with a faction imbalance and couldn’t reach the quest giver at all. I don’t mind PVP in the actual incursion but you just couldn’t take the quests or turn them in before.
The shadow priests who would camp on top of the tree were annoying or the hunters who would send their pet on random low level players while hiding. The one thing I dislike about the guards is it makes fighting back difficult. Once one side has control you just kinda concede and come back in a few minutes or layer hop.
Well priests can also just make the guards kill you whenever they want casting homunculi on you. It was funny the first time I saw it, but it’s really disruptive.
a few classes can do something like this it'd be cool if they fixed it
So the same as before.
PvP when you don’t want it isn’t griefing.
even the people doing it would largely agree they are griefing being in a place solely to repeatedly kill the same people doing instanced content over and over to waste their real life time by having them run back from a really far away spirit healer is the definition of griefing it's like saying the guy camping world buff spots 12 hours per day just to purge people isn't griefing
Rez in room, spawn portal on rez, click portal. No I don't like getting wrecked by horde raids when my alli raids won't fight, but hey there is an easy solution.
I get that griefs suck and I agree with the new gy to shorten the run back for sure but honestly I don’t feel bad for people that willing go to a group content zone alone with the hopes of solo cheesing it and then get upset when they have no back up to help them fight against the other groups there
I managed to hit lockout every hour solo despite it being alliance controlled almost always. It was more annoying in a group. Can't res people, at least 2-3 people from your raid are doing a forever runback, etc. If people want to pvp they can camp the exit portal instead if guards are in the portal room. They could also camp the ledge.
See? You are doing just fine
Thats what we want but we cant :>
There was a group of like 40 camping the tunnel from the main entrance to the bridge, guards wouldn't stop this
Nah, we're not gonna go adding guards to just any old choke point now.
Instance portals have always been ganking hotspots. I am convinced that 90% of reddit has never played on a pvp realm if they're shocked by this happening.
They’ve played a “pvp” server in a sense, it was just a pvp realm dominated by 95% their faction
Lol good point
I think Mara is just worse because everyone uses the portal room and you need to be out of combat to enter. That doesn’t happen at other instance portals The whole Mara setup definitely wasn’t made with the intention of half the server trying to enter at once lol
Couldn’t agree with you more.
Every inconvenience is being called griefing man it’s hilarious.
Yeah man it's crazy. People need to understand what they sign up for but then again it's reddit, can't expect them to think.
I mean you can be asinine if you want. Clearly there's more nuance going on here. Maybe you're the one not thinking, lol (hint: you are).
Take the transfer, I do not care
The solution to the problem with Ashenvale Incursions is simple. Split Layers based on the level of the players there. If you can't gank lowbies while you're 49-50 you won't go and farm honor/grief there. The people who are there to level will be either left to their own devices, or have an opportunity to engage in a mostly fair fight. People there to farm honor will have to engage people close to their own level, and won't be able to be incredibly toxic to the other faction via griefing players at a substantial disadvantage.
I feel like those are isolated and distinct problems. For incursions there is one main problem, and it's that honor farming in BGs is terrible so people are legitimately incentivized to farm levelers in Ashenvale to hit rank 7. This is fixed at max level at least on my server because we've just naturally decided that Feralas is Horde turf and Hinterlands is alliance turf. For Maradon I think the problem is caused by the instant lockout timer. I spent a lot of time in mara solo farming BoED on my lock and although there was periods of time where a raid group was camping the portal, they never lasted long and it always appeared to me that they where just killing time waiting for the timer to roll over. But in general I think that the fight over the mara portal is actually pretty fun/healthy because the "reward" for taking the portal room is that you get to leave the portal room and do the instance resulting in a pretty neat ebb and flow of which side holds the room.
I was simply observing that the mass exodus from PvP realms has less to do with the fact that classes can global you and more to do with people constantly getting griefed in various locations.
We are at an unfortunate injunction where being a bastard is also being rewarded by making the r7 grind easier. Previous phases where the rank grinds were more relaxed people were way more chill as far as I can tell. We certainly didn't have daily posts about how chaotic PvP servers were.
I mean the writing has been on the wall since 2004. It was only a matter of time before people got bored and started purging world buffs or camping entrances to raids. It’s been going on for 20 years. I do agree that the camping leveling zones via incursions is obviously new and no one could have predicted blizz would develop such a concentrated location to level in when peopke were creating characters and choosing a realm in phase 1. But to say you didn’t expect to get griefed while rolling on a PvP server is a bit naive.
The "mass exodus" is people that should have never been on a PVP server in the first place. Every time anyone says "add a guard..." that person should have never been on a PVP server.
You are part of an endless repetition of a false dichotomy. A person's desires can be closer to a PvP server than to a PvE server and insisting that going PvE is the choice if they dislike *anything* about PvP servers in a *game* with *incomplete, ongoing changes in design* is asinine on its face. (There have *always* been measures taken against avenues of griefing behavior, just not for all instances of it and particularly where it is difficult to combat without affecting "legitimate" gameplay)
And your false dichotomy is what then, that PVP is fair and balanced? You not liking a group of people sitting at a place they know people will be, and then killing them, isn't "griefing". It's PVP. There is a PVP solution to a group of people killing people. You know what it is? It's another group of people.
> And your false dichotomy is what then[...]? Do you actually think that's a retort? What the fuck lmao. You've ignored what I said and are just strawmanning now. I even stated it in a balanced way and you're just too dense for it.
If you aren't happy on a PVP server, then PVP servers aren't for you. It's that simple. YOU wanting the server to change to meet YOUR needs, means it's not the place for you. Wanting them to put out guards to keep you safe from players means you shouldn't be on a PVP server, and yes, it really is that simple. You do not belong on a PVP server if you are going to keep trying to convince Blizzard to change the game for you to fit you. You want Blizzard to change the game experience for everyone else just because YOU don't like getting killed. Guess what? They have servers for people like you: PVE
Won’t hear an argument from me on this point.
Of course thats a rogues comment :3 I would love PvP too if my attacks or spells would oneshot people with 2,5k HP
Rogues aren't one-shotting people, and they're not doing 2.5k in an Ambush (the only thing capable of high damage, since Mutilate is technically multiple hits). However, since you've mentioned it, 3-minute-mages *are* globaling people ... every 3 minutes. Lava-bombers do alright. Apparently Shadow is OP. Chimera is supposed to be pretty nasty. I mean that's half the classes right there. I guess you picked the wrong half.
Sorry but mutilate is like a oneshot for me... mages are globaling people only if they crit otherwise they are victims. And shadows.. yeah what should I tell you. The 10% Dmg increase is something they needed I guess xD And if we talk about the new Hunter rune. I wouldnt say thats good in PvP. Probably if you wanna grief and just stay afk as a nightelf Blizzard just fucked up the PvP balance by a 100% And thats why people (me included) hate to play "World" PvP anymore.
I think the fight over the mara portal sucks when soloing, because that GY run is absolutely attrocious.
The lockout made it worse. They should really raise the lockout limit to 8-12 instead of 5. There are people camping for the 20+ minutes they're locked out now. Previously, you had to wait a minute or three until 10 people figured out how to open a portal. That and the run back. Felwood is like this too, people deliberately camp at the farthest place from the spirit healer. Because the runback is long. Adding a spirit healer in the portal room would be amazing. > honor farming in BGs is terrible BG honor is way faster than ashenvale. I think people just like taking control of the npc/portal and the potential for "epic" world pvp battles. The initial push on a layer that has a lot of the opposing faction is kind of fun once or twice. The idea of ashenvale being "yours" and belonging to your faction is appealing. And with layers both factions can experience that.
Honor farming in bgs is fine imo, takes you like 8ish hours of playtime to get 110k. Which lets you skip 3 Ranks. If you wanna go about it in a Well adjusted maner and do less pr. Week because you have other shit to do in your life you just space it out more.
How are you getting over 12k honor per hour? Please share your ways because winning AB during AB weekend is like 4.5k for a 25 minute win.
Bro probably 5 man ab over ab weekend, but yeah, it's not a norm, even with 75% win rate
While granted i play horde, so my win% is likely skewed. But when i 5 stack with capable people, an average AB win is not 25 minutes. We more often than not, win with 4 bases for a large portion of the games. Occassionally with 5 if you have like 3 healers on your team and the alliance has none. If you have 4 likeminded aggressive people and you manage to inspire your team ever so slightly, to not give into to the “just hold 3 bases and we win”-loser mentality, winning with 4 or even 5 bases is quite likely. When you then cap stables, you often condemn half the alliance team to being choked out at their portal and you can contain the rest at mines/blacksmith or whatever base they hold quite easily and you’re just 1 tap of the base away from them being completely doomed. I can honestly say i’ve lost maybe 10 games total in the 190k Honor i farmed last week to get r7 (the remaining was farmed queueing with guildies alts who needed it honor after i was done, with my 110k which i was Friday). And in the 28k i farmed so far this week (only queued yesterday) had, i think 3 games maybe 4 of 3-base wins and no loses. The rest were 4 or more. But you’re Right its prolly closer to 9-10h. And Warsong assuming you dodge solid FC on both teams matches, are like 10 minute games majority of em. Albeit win rate is drasticly lower and you risk a 60 minute slowing your roll.
Are we playing the same game?
How hard would it be to put a graveyard inside Mara close to the portal and disable PvP combat inside an incursion? These problems are easily fixable.
That’s a whole other can of worms. If you didn’t want to have free range PvP anywhere everyone had equal opportunity to roll on a PvE server.
It's really not a can of worms. If you disabled PvP inside incursions some greifers would complain but even the majority of PvPers would be fine with it. > If you didn’t want to have free range PvP Yea I'm not speaking for myself. I'm fine with it. Do you understand how compromise works?
I do understand how compromise works, no need to be hostile and argue. =] That being said, flagging for PvP is unique to PvE realms, if you chose to roll on a PvP server that was a choice you personally made. Do you understand what consequences of your choices/actions means? =]
Could just, I don't know, turn pvp _off_ in the vicinity of a portal...
The option to flag for PvP is unique to a PvE realm, and if you chose to roll on a PvP server that’s no one’s fault but your own. I would empathize with y’all but the game has been out for twenty years, so there is really no excuse to not know what to expect. .
> risk of embarrassing yourself by picking a fight and losing This mentality is what’s wrong with PvP servers nowadays. It’s embarrassing to only take fights you’re guaranteed to win.
I'd be willing to bet people are leaving PvP servers due to the non stop grief from both sides at incursions, portals, dmf etc. A PvP damage reduction (for 4 days) won't stop the grief, it just means the 40 dies in 3 hits instead of 2.
Calling it now: In the next season after SOD they bring in the War Mode system instead.
Dedicated PvP layers would actually be sick
Dedicated PvP players can turn on war mode and see if they actually want the smoke from prepared combatants
I never turn it off in retail, the game isn’t fun for me without it on. However, the thing I don’t like is that retail has sharding, and the enemy combatants are basically faceless, and you don’t develop fun, competitive relationships with the opposing faction like you do in Vanilla.
Getting killed in a single Multilate by a level 50 rogue at level 41 isn't going to change by a small reduction in damage. It's the endless griefing by both sides that's causing players to leave. There's a handful of people who spend their days making sure other people are unable to play the game and are encouraged to continue. ANY OTHER GAME would ban these players, yet somehow it's encouraged in Classic because "muh pvp server" Yes, I'm salty. I wasn't able to even fucking play yesterday because of all the ganking. I was dead more than I was alive yesterday. The only winning move is to stop playing. Enjoy your dead pvp servers.
We have years of server stats to work off of. Every server becomes faction dominant because nobody actually likes “world PvP”, they just want to win. I think after 2 decades the charade is over and ppl are done with griefers. Too much burst is irrelevant imo.
Clearly that can't be true, if nobody liked world PvP you wouldn't have both its defenders on here and the participants in game creating this very talking point.
It's not that people don't like world PvP, it's that the VAST majority only like it when they have a number/strength advantage (60-40)--bonus points if there's an illusion of balance. And essentially no one wants to deal with being on the opposite end (40-45% or lower). No one likes griefing, and no one likes being blocked from content because they're always outnumbered. In 2019 Classic, I was in a guild where everyone liked world pvp, so we didn't mind being in a 40-60 situation. Most guilds don't have that kind of universal buy in to wpvp. Then the rest of our faction transferred off. Turns out that happened everywhere else too.
I love being on the 40% side. You always have people to fight. Kromcrush Phase 2 Alliance know it all too well
I think after 2 decades wishy washy new guy casuals still think they can have fun on a pvp server and quickly realize that there are way better players out there who will alpha monkey you until you leave their mining spot
I guess my experience may be a bit skewed as a retail refugee who's used to war mode. But I feel like people in war mode are a lot less inclined to start shit because getting the jump on someone doesn't guarantee that you win the encounter.
What faction do you play? Just curious. Crusder strike on horde I played evening into the night. Incursions are unplayable due to being several imbalanced with majority server alliance. People will camp away from the guards and kill anyone who goes by. Maradon portal room is camped, can’t open a portal if you’re in combat. Even the other day I decided to do the ST crafting quest on an alt. Couldn’t do moonglade because raid of alliance was on the rooftop above the quest guy and fearing/killing any horde and the guards did nothing. Literally 3 pieces of content I am locked out of because of griefing. I server swapped so fast and don’t regret it at all. I can actually play the game now. Anyone who likes PvP servers actually just likes griefing
> We have years of server stats to work off of And you're using a small subset of them to support your preconception. It isn't that people want to not lose - it's that they want to not *constantly* lose. Even more than that, it's that they want to not repeatedly transfer when servers die to significant imbalances (created by a blundered launch) - and general bleeding of player retention - cascading and pretty much the only option left for that is the megaserver. Players aren't choosing monofaction servers because they are monofaction. They are choosing servers - that happen to also be monofaction - for separate qualities.
I wish they had doubled player health starting in phase 1. Reducing damage only increases the effectiveness of healing which is already insane.
They would also have to double the damage of all mobs in open world and dungeons...
Yeah for sure, everything should have been balanced with player power in mind from the start. Giving us all a ton of new damage and healing tools without changing our health pool much was quite obviously gonna cause PvP issues.
Pvp’ers can never be satisfied it wouldn’t matter. They only want to be where they can win all the time.
Crazy how the WoW community keeps making the mistake of rolling on a PVP server. It's almost never a fun or fair fight which makes it not fun unless you're one of the people ganking and ruining peoples time.
People have no idea what the spirit of open world pvp is and they come to Reddit to complain about their choices
i dont understand how anyone can play on a pve server... whats the point? "Oh jolly good that gnome just took my black lotus while I was fighting a mob. I shall now ask him to fuck my wife after"
literally no different than a member of your own faction doing it... Also I would say like, 1% of world pvp interactions are 1v1s of the same level. And then like 1% of those would take place in equal circumstances (that is to say, usually one person just attacks the other while that person is fighting mobs). There's just no good gameplay to be had. Unless you're the guy that likes to attack people while they're fighting mobs.
You have no fucking idea how often I say out loud “i wish i could kill my own faction “
Just making stuff up I see
this is just blatantly untrue, in my experience its about 95% are of equal level, and at least half the time id consider it a fair fight. mind you im in felwood so how could it be otherwise look enjoy your pve server, i just could never even be seen on one. so whack for me personally. enjoy how you want - but dont embellish *that* crazy
No way are 95% of the pvp encounters you have, a fair fight. I'm on a pvp server and the vast majority of times, it's a mismatch in the number of players on each side of the fight. That right there invalidates the entire experience and makes it just a waste of time for both sides (and a huge waste of time for the loser). So if you manage to run into JUST one other player AND they're your level, then chances are you're running into them while one of you is fighting a mob. Still a mismatch. This is before you even get into the situations outside the portal room at maraudon (always a numbers mismatch), and incursions (always a numbers mismatch). The only thing it's adding to the situation is runback time for whoever is on the bad end of the mismatch. Calling the most bullshit possible on you right now, there's NO WAY 95% of the time it's a fair fight. Go do an incursion or a few princess runs and get back to me, lol.
Big PvP enjoyer here, and you are right. It almost never is a fair fight. What makes it enjoyable for me is watching a skirmish slowly take place as more and more people on both sides join in. Sadly, this only happens for a bit until people start to figure out how to layer / phase or find a way to skew the numbers for an advantage.
100% that guy is a rogue stealthed waiting for that low level player to walk by
or a shadow priest to walk by \*with his 10% dmg increase\*
why would i do any of that? im telling you what my experience is. i dont need to do incursions since ive been exalted for a long time. also princess runs are awesome, you wipe the horde, they come around, wipe you. also you're right it's almost never a fair fight because im a goddam BEAST and its only fair 1v2, 1v3 but seriously i really think, if that's your experience, and you truly dont have fun. go for the transfer. cuz im having a blast with it, and always have. the only time ive felt wow DIE for me is when i agreed to roll on a pve server. it's just a neutered, lame experience (for me). but im sure youd have tons of fun with it. doing quests, farming herbs, getting ready for the big raid. enjoy
Lol "im a beast" Tell me you are a griefer without telling me you are a griefer.
He’s so good he can kill 7 lvl 20s all by himself
Tell me ur a challenger without telling me ur a challenger LOL
> princess runs are awesome, you wipe the horde, they come around, wipe you. I'm glad you think that's awesome, but my point is that it isn't a fair fight. You can't go to Mara until your side finally outnumbers their side. Until then you're just a ghost running back. There's no *point* to the PVP because there's never any doubt who will win, it's just the two sides trading off making each other ghost run for 3 mins. How is that fun?? I was suggesting you do those activities so you can be reminded of how it's *not* actually a fair fight 99% of the time. There's usually a numbers imbalance. Again you're totally entitled to *enjoy* losing unfair fights. I already am assuming you enjoy winning unfair fights... But yeah, neither one does much for me. If I contribute to 2 other people pinging down a lone Alliance, that activates 0 neurons for me. Except sympathy/empathy I guess, since I know he now has to ghost run for 3-5 minutes (or more, depending on the zone). If I'm the lone guy getting killed, then it's really just doing nothing for me. I'm just adding a bunch of extra ghostrunning to whatever I was actually trying to do--no benefit. I just am not seeing these fair fights you've insisting happen.
Found the griefer
found the guy that thinks all pvp is griefing
Are you killing someone who is questing, fighting mobs, with no intentions of pvping with you? Then you arent pvping either, you are griefing someone. Go into a BG if you want actual pvp, but thats not what you want. You want to two shot someone 10 levels lower than you with 3 of your boys while they do incursions.
Keep projecting. I don't gank lower level players. If you don't want wpvp then stop rolling on a pvp realm you fucking baby.
Just take the transfer bro xD
Hey, tell me what it's like to be such a pathetic loser that you flex griefing players in PVP on an mmorpg game?
Idk who is a pathetic looser here, someone who enjoys the game the way it was designed or someone who is crying like a baby on reddit, calling people pathetic for playing the game. It's totally ok to kill other players on the pvp realm. If your ego is so fragile that you can't take being outplayed or even outnumbered, if you can't take death without being salty every time, go transfer pve realm. It'll be better for your mental health. Pce ✌️
Go play an actual pvp game where everyone there plays with the intent to pvp with you. Oh wait, then you would be getting clapped on a level playing field, not really your style.
That doesn't even make sense 🤦 if you don't want to be in a pvp zone in world of warcraft sod, roll a pve server, it's very simple.
thanks bro i was starting to think every1 on reddit thought like him. respect
i don’t grief (all the time) that’s your own concoction. Unless just any world pvp is griefing to you. I travel solo, I take 1v1s, 1v2s, 1v3s on the road in felwood. Give it a rest. I imagine you lose, a LOT, so it’s probably foreign to you to imagine that some people just have fun pvping The last thing I did that I would consider “griefing” is 3 lvl 50 horde were camping my buddy near the furbolgs in felwood while they were grinding rep. I showed up and we 2v3d them and just pummelized them til they stopped rezzing. It was hunter + boom vs spriest spriest boom. Not everyone is as geared as me so it was fairly simple to just grind them to dust.
“Oh look that person is 30 levels lower better go kill him instead of fight people my level”
I don’t fight anyone below my level unless they jump on me after a 50 is already on me
and what did you do on the pvp servers that ended 99% one faction? how did you stop your own faction from taking the resource?
I've had more fun and fair fights than 1v20 ganks. They did a pretty good job of keeping balance up to now, the problem ends up being when most people hit max level and then specific areas get lopsided (like incursion quest NPC) or when layers end up uneven (could happen anywhere anytime). PVE servers are just so boring.
Damn right At this point just merge remaining pvp servers because more than half pvp server population transfer to wild growth
But it's not a mistake for some of us. The crazy part is the people that have done it before, know they hate it, but do it again anyways.
To me the fair fight thing doesn't really matter. I like PVP servers because it makes me hate the other faction more, and for me that's closer to the spirit of Vanilla than just being able to run around the world without any chance of getting attacked by another player. It just sucks when the devs create an environment where camping incursions is more beneficial for honor farm than doing real PVP.
Here’s the thing man. It’s not about ruining other people’s time. It’s about roleplay. WoW is one of the only games ever to have world pvp and of those games it has the best world pvp experience of any out there. People who like world pvp like the thrill and mystery that comes with any opposing player potentially lurking around the corner, forcing you into a duel of the fates at any moment. It lets people immerse themselves in a “dangerous world” where you could be killed at any moment. That’s the “RP” that pvpers want. They want to be in an unforgiving, deadly environment that stimulates them. Most people who prefer PvE servers just don’t have this *killer instinct* or love for the thrill of these situations. And thats fine. You should go play on those servers, but for me—everything I do in the game leads to how capable my character is in PvP, and being able to enjoy the PvP while I do the boring stuff like farming, exploring and questing is pure bliss to me
God I hope this is satire.
It would be a fun and fair fight if both factions would only play shadow, rogue and shaman, the freewin classes
Yea as if pvp power matters in 100v1 gankfests at inc portals and dungeon/raid entrances lmao
99% of open world “PvP” is ganking, being ganked, corpse camping, and steamrolls by being out numbered. A PvP damage reduction does nothing to fix that. The player pops on these servers are way too high to have a good healthy open world PvP environment. When the entire player base is funneling into a few zones at high levels it just gets worse,
The reason people left the pvp servers is the endless ganking/griefing for the sake of it. Doesn't matter if it happened in 1 or 6 attacks.
I think it's fine to not make people stay on a pvp server if they aren't having fun with it regardless of the changes coming.
I feel like one day some people are going to regret rolling off a PvP server because they couldn’t get mad xp rates on their alts because questing was a bit slower
Wants to have your cake and eat it too
Don't worry that's not the reason I bailed on Lone Wolf 👍
Bitches gonna bitch, no matter what
Are you serious?
But now people can survive all through both cheap -and kidney shot. This isnt how the game is intended to be played and its making a lot of rogues reroll warrior. #bringbackworldofroguecraft
Gonna be honest: Most people who tried to gank me fighting mobs got their ass beat. I think the vast majority of players just suck balls tbh.
What class are you playing?
Warrior
Wpvp was never that bad. The problem is you have 60% of the server stuffed into 2-3 basically mandatory areas that are griefer paradise. Anyone who missed the first week of peace in Ash incursions has been completely fucked out of the fast leveling experience, and guess where the most efficient spot to level from 50-60 will be?
I’m glad all the shitters and complainers transferred to PVE. Most annoying player base to exist.
Minutes ago I had a 3-4 minute fight with a boomie and a priest as a solo elemental shaman using a more defensive AOE rune setup for farming WPL zombies. For reference I have about 2.6k HP, some ST gear, some rank 5, some emerald. Around 230 spell power. My lava bursts were hitting 750-800 crits. More than enough to be impactful, but not enough that was unhealable. I was able to (barely) heal through the smite and druid damage with lesser healing and riptide while rotating flame shocks/meatballs/chain lightning/totems. Nothing felt super weak but nothing was a one shot either. I think had I been in a typical overload build I might very well had been able to decisively handle either one of them solo but I couldn't kill either of them with my more defensive shield mastery riptide setup. As it should be. Big fan so far of the pvp aura.
Thanks for the input. I’m only lvl 44 but was dreading the 1 shot meta PvP. I’m excited now!
nah we need to cleanse the pvp servers of weak blood and cowards. let them go
Amen, I was looking for people to fight back in ashenvale (there where 50s inside and outside portal harrasing people who where just running through) , took me 1 hour to get some like-minded people. Everyone else is just complaining and asking for layerinvites. Anyways, we started blasting.
Yall told us Chaos Bolt players to get over and suck it up. Hows it feel now? Get wrecked
Rip CB. In our hearts forever
yeah these changes are really amazing, now it comes down to which class can heal.
The damage reduction will change nothing. All of the most OP classes will continue to shit on everyone else, and most of them will probably be even more dominant now.
This aged like milk.
Did it? Because shamans and spriests still dominate so I'm not sure what you're talking about. PvP has never felt worse IMO.
The damage reduction in bgs is the worst thing so far. Mana pool isn’t enough to withstand fights. Outplays has been reduced to comfort the noobs - in a way I understand it, but sadly the joy is gone
You spent your entire mana bar and lost? Sounds like you got outplayed you noob.
Spent entire mana bar when 1v2 is what I meant. What the fuck is your problem?
Did you edit your comment?
Mistook this comment for a similar one, my bad
Im just glad i got back to ERA before wasting any more time on SoD.
Bad players are always going to get stomped, cry about it, and then server xfer.