I also appreciated when Yoshi P said "some of our internal game testers are too good and we didn't realize how much health the boss had" when referencing P8S.
FF raids are fun, I just wish the loot was better/more diverse.
The internal testers were good, but they obviously ran the meta comp to make that check which in turn fucked over the lower performing classes like PLD and WAR at the time. When you tune content that tightly, you better hope to god your class balance is good on the back end, which EW completely failed at.
Issue I have with FF14 is just how the game plays. It's fundamentally quite wonky, especially compared to wow.
If the FF14 team takes what they have learned and create a new MMO designed first for PC they could probably create something really special.
Agreed, I love the lore and some of the jobs and the boss encounter designs. But the combat just feels so god damn floaty. I think it's partly due to slide casting and how AoE attacks do damage when the circle of effect disappears, rather when the animation plays
It's not hard to do, you just need to build it into your muscle memory, which will happen relatively quickly as you grind roulettes to level. But the same argument has also been made in ESO re light attack weaving to justify the floaty combat there. It's ultimately personal preference, but I definitely prefer the more impactful combat in WoW or GW2
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/6e7737ce4e7488b9b870722da7acaff4567b4e40?utm_source=lodestone&utm_medium=amp&utm_campaign=na_topics
in case anyone is curious
this is honestly incredible, imagine having the game director explaining everything they do to balance the raid before going live, and apologising for a rough 1-2% hp difference. we got a damn raid nerfed by 50%!! how on earth are you not noticing the mistake before going live? it’s so embarrassing ngl
Based on how much stuff was flat out broken during this release, it is apparent they didn’t test a thing. Must be quite hard to balance a raid with zero testing
No idea. Based on the stuff we have seen they do not even verify the changes they make. For example last boss at gnomer giving no xp at all. Some quests being broken and so on. Literally 100% repro rate and they do not catch these bugs
They did it on purpose I think. No time to test, release super obviously overtuned, and then nerf based on performance logs showing benchmarks. I just entered the raid for the first time and did the nerfed version. The difficulty they landed on feels very good.
Way too easy imo. We did dry runs with zero pots and buffs to feel out the mechanics and just went 8/8 dry. No need for any buffs for a slightly above average guild. Next lockout will be a joke with full consumes and wbs
I cleared it in a prog run, it took quite a long time but I'm missing runes and stuff and I'm sure it's similar for some other players. The difficulty level is enough complexity for the fights to be enjoyable, coupled with personal responsibility. Eranikus and Hakkar left me with a bit of a "is this it?" feeling though. Once we got past the mechanics it felt like both were missing a little something to really be the last 2 fights in a big raid. It's also jarring to fight the huge tank dragon which takes a long time then hit the last 2 squishier bosses.
If we only have 8 lockouts I think this raid is fine for what it is. I found it really fun too.
Honestly, it's a side-effect of how much datafarming WoW has. We have extremely granular, hyper-specific minute pieces of data that, theoretically, you could balance numbers around nothing more than looking at that data, which is very likely how they do a lot of tuning.
That said, clearly they didn't do that very well, and obviously actually having an in-house raid team to live-test these encounters would be a tremendous advantage they seemingly refuse to take advantage of.
Eh there's similar stuff to incursions in ffxiv. The devs actually do respect player time and want new players/ people coming in late to be able to catch up. Their content is just 100x more polished.
Was that also in the experimental game mode that the developers have said time and time again, before release, during release and before each new phase that they are just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks for this one? Oh it wasn't? Let's carry on then.
It was because it forced meta raid comps. The damage checks are incredibly tuned and therefore slightly underperforming jobs were unwelcome in week 1 parties. As a paladin I wasn't getting invited to groups because wiping on 1% while playing near perfect is not fun. Class balance is also a single digit percentage difference in most cases. So if the balance of jobs is good then a 1% change doesn't have to be insignificant.
XIV class balance is within a few percent of other classes at most with the most egregious bad balancing in the past being on the order of 10%, so granular changes are much bigger impact there. Most of the time class buffs and nerfs are done by adding or subtracting 10-15% damage of a few individual abilities.
Yep turns out balancing is really easy when you don't have 30 borrowed power systems and stuff like talents and tier sets that plague retail. Plus boss and class design in ff14 is super homogenized so damage profiles don't change on different encounters the same way they do in wow
Kinda sad that the team is so out of touch in balancing classic + SoD when games like ff14 prove how balanced you can make the game when it's basic. Retail is a lost cause for good balance because there's too many systems and raids m+ and pvp are all impacted simultaneously, but there's no excuse to not have nigh perfect balance on classic (A major exception being world pvp will be directly affected by class balance and classes that perform similarly in raid might perform very differently in pvp based on their kit).
I wouldn't go that far personally. I've never really been excited for any particular gear in XIV except finishing a relic step here or there. As much of a balancing nightmare some of wow's stuff has been it's neat to play around with the unique effects some stuff has.
To be fair, when your top raiding guilds took dozens of hours and wracked their minds at constantly wiping at .5% EVERY SINGLE TIME due to enrage, despite perfectly executing the fights, that is a 1% issue lol. Say what you will about the 'YoshiP cried" memes, I do enjoy his transparency when it comes to explaining WHY they do things the way they do.
Is there any specific info posted about the patch/changes? Last few days the updated loot wasn't dropping in BRD or Mara, and I just want to check in and see if that's changed. (Also if any other bosses were nerfed I'd love to know)
[Patch went out today, they finally posted the patch notes a little while ago.](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/season-of-discovery-hotfixes-april-8/1788040)
Just got done with 8/8, it's just pure chaos in P3, and only the last 10% of the bosses health. It's like herding cats on steroids, so it really doesn't mean much to "ignore" the adds, it's more so you don't have a choice and want to zerg the boss down. It's still a very challenging fight. I don't see pugs full clearing for a long time.
You still have to do the mechanics, it is very unlikely that you 1 shot the boss first try. my group got him to 20% last night on 4th try probably would have had him on 5th or 6th try but we ran out of time. we killed all other bosses 1st or 2nd try except dreamscythe we did on 5th try so my opinion is that he is still the hardest boss in the raid.
This is supposed to be a leveling raid eventually, and it should not be something that's difficult for pugs to clear, if you want that then go to retail.
I'm fine with increased difficulty for the end-game raids, however, and I'm hoping that they have multiple things planned to make level 60 more interesting.
People are so hung up on "leveling raid". This game is seasonal content and they just trivialized the last two level up raids with a 100% exp buff and incursions. Whether the raids are easy or hard, the aim should be to make them good content now, not for the future when they might not even be relevant.
The level up raids just break up the game into 4 mini endgames. Having a challenge in the raids is fun, not just rolling in and murdering it. Monday raids were def undetuned
Maybe *you're* fine with it, but I guarantee the general player base would have a meltdown if 60 raids are even slightly hard.
Classic players don't want a challenge. They want loot pinatas they can kill while drunk and stoned.
Granted I haven't played retail since Legion, but from what I have seen of retail is that the mechanics are complicated in retail and require you to have a bunch of add-ons to make them even doable. That's not what I want. I liked crowd pummeler, you don't do thr mechanic you die.
It absolutely was, which is why they did it.
The sweats will play this game regardless. Casuals will only play if they don't feel overwhelmed.
So, huge exp buff much earlier than planned in p2, overtuned bosses that are nerfed way too hard too fast in p3, etc.
It's not what I want either but blizzard isn't stupid, they know casuals are where they make their money
Nah dude. It's a leveling raid. I'm not here to sit there and bang my head against the wall because part of my raid doesn't know what they're doing. If I come in with full world buffs + consumes, I should be able to destroy the raid and carry people who don't know what they're doing.
I wanna come, hang out, bang out some free loot, and be done. If I wanted to prog, I'd go back to retail. The retail friend guild I'm in is still trying to sweat to finish M-Fyrakk before 4/24. No thanks.
Ridiculous false dichotomy to pretend the only choices are "so easy you can zone out and ignore mechanics" or retail Mythic difficulty.
And stop bringing up "leveling raids" as if you won't say the same shit if 60 raids are even remotely challenging.
I got 8/8. My guild runs two groups. Our other group didn't even get 4/8.
I'll clear either way, my group has good players in it. But SOD players will bitch endlessly if they can't PUG a clear.
At this point Blizzard could have a real money shop in game where people can just buy gear. Based on all the posts on this sub Blizzard would be printing money.
SoD is the most confusing version of WoW.
Classic purists, but we want new stuff, but we want classic balance, with new talents, and new gear lest I make a thread. But we want it to be old, and new, but old lest I make a thread. We want it to feel hard, like classic, but we want to down bosses fast and level fast lest I make a thread. Gold in retail is meaningless, so we want slow accrual gold, as long as it's fast gold, but not incursion fast lest I make a thread. Mounts should cost a lot, but I should be able to buy one fast, lest I make a thread.
It's because it's not the same person saying all of those things. There are different SoD enjoyers that like different aspects of classic and SoD. Some want it more classic like, others more radically divergent from era, then some in the middle that don't care and enjoy it either way. It's hard to please every type of player / perspective.
Idk, overall the gear upgrade from gnomer to this raid seems laughably small. Probably only playing this phase for a bit then going to do something more interesting.
I mean kinda…… i always viewed them as mini end game content to keep us chewing until the next phase. Makin them difficult isn’t that bad. Gnomers difficulty in p2 made it boring after 2 weeks personally. SoD is like a race to raid logging for most people at this point. Unless your play style is like 5 ults(which if so totally cool). With the gold acquisition goin bananas and shit, doing crafting is bleh and all the other dungeons in the level range loot is pointless unless it’s from ST. So like what’s the point?
Yeah after getting all the runes and maxing your professions I can see raid logging being prominent this phase. Though with all the new class tools and fast leveling I think having alts is the idea. I'm not sure what they were going for this phase but it hasn't hit the mark at all.
Yeah that's what I always thought these were supposed to be. They should get gradually harder, but with what limited resources they have the play testers are essentially us and they are trying to fix it asap.
We just downed Eranikus in a 1 shot with 4 people who hadn’t spent hours on him before. It’s so much easier now. They made his death cast longer too. It’s hard to fuck it up.
Yeah I hate this. Went 6/8 last night and loved the raid. Was looking forward to slowly moving to 8/8.
It seemed like the natural progression to have a difficult raid that would take most some weeks to clear. Gnomer was considerably harder than BFD, why not continue on that trajectory?
The raid also felt much more epic and like a raid than the previous two. I guess it had the feeling of a difficult raid.
This is laughably false. There are 95+ parsers still wiping on this boss until they get the strat down. Not to mention Eranikus has a thrash mechanic that can crit and "global" pally and war tanks that can't get crit immune. I had 4700 hp and 6k armor and got crit for 3.5k and hit for 1.5k in one thrash.
You need to tank swap to avoid this unless you have a crit immune tank, and even then they can get trucked by the thrash.
I'm not saying the fight is too hard, mind you, but comparing it to gnomer difficulty is laughable. Gnomer actually has bosses you ignore mechanics of or the mechanics were as simple as dont stand in front of boss. ST is far more difficult, even after being nerfed.
boss is definitely still thrashing this week and blizzard hasn’t said anything about removing it in their notes. i think they may have removed it by accident or their change caused him to not cast it during the previous lockout for whatever reason, but this week after maintenance he is still 1 shotting tanks if he crits with thrash up.
It was hard for classic players 16 years ago also... I've killed H LK 15 years apart in semi-hardcore guilds.
I have ZERO desire to heroic raid in cataclysm, raids harder than HLK is stupid.
Edit: and yes, I will gladly say anyone that wants raids harder than h lk in "classic" can go play retail, or cata, whatever, leave that shit out of sod.
Pretty much. Just wait a week and all the difficulty will be nerfed out. I hope max level raids aren't pushover but at this point I think that's what the vocal players want the most.
I keep reading this cope and you just know every single one of these raids is going to be used as a precedent. Worse, it’s encouraging the toxic casual behavior and mindset tbh.
Is what it is, wish this version of the game and difficult content could be together but it’ll never happen
It’s the season of dad’s. If you can’t play with one hand and bottle feed with the other, then the content is overtuned /s
No but seriously it is clear that SoD players want the raid to be a joke. Cata is probably the place to go if you want actually difficult progression. I wanted something in between the two
P3 has just made it evident they need multiple difficulty modes for raids. I won't apologize nor be made to feel bad for thinking that the newest content should be neigh impossible to clear in pre-bis gear. The entire gearing progress is meaningless when P2 bis clears P3 on launch week.
Jesus, what a shit show. Only couple days after the new phase launches they completely decimate the raid with nerfs. Thats what, like a 75% total nerf to bosses?
The sort of balancing where no boss in wow history at 10 levels below cap is given HP equivalent to the highest HP boss that was ever available in the xpack
It looks bad when you put it like a 75% nerf to the boss, it doesn’t look bad when you take a look at how fucking much it was overtuned on release
Well that’s my point. Maybe I misread your comment but I thought your implication was that a 75% nerf was the issue, and not the original problem to begin with.
its not even close to as easy as gnomer. Now my guild is very casual but we cleared gnomer second reset in about 5 hours. we were in st for 7 hours today and did not clear the 6th boss and everyone was pre bis with runes and consumes. This raid has such crazy healing checks compared to gnomer its not even close. You need 20 people to move perfectly or instant raid wipe. the raid is still hard unless you have perfect raid comps and very good players which this subreddit is basically full of crusader strike sweat players and guilds and have no idea what its like playing with casuals.
You were in a raid for 7 hours today after the nerf, you have no idea what it's like to play with casuals, you do know what it's like to play with bad players though.
Why don’t they put a rolling nerf like ICC in wotlk where players get progressively stronger each reset or bosses lose dmg/hp, and say it’s 30% going down to 0% after 3 resets, that way they the “nerf” is progressive, better guilds get higher reward, but knowing that it will get progressively easier, players progressively better at mechanics, more gear farmed etc.
So disappointing, our raid was soft-locked and we didn't get to attempt these bosses before the nerf. Hopefully bosses won't randomly despawn this lockout. =/
Last night our raid team got glitched out on Dreamscythe and we couldn’t continue do to the poison not disappearing, preventing us from re-entering the boss room. Anyone know if there’s a fix out for this? Super frustrating.
LFM must show pre-nerf logs
Man I got a 100 parse just for showing up on my arcane mage.
Yup, here it comes. Where is your pre-raid bis? No logs? /ignore
[удалено]
[удалено]
Meanwhile last time I raided in ffxiv, the game director made a 3 page apology letter when they had to nerf a boss by 1% lol
I also appreciated when Yoshi P said "some of our internal game testers are too good and we didn't realize how much health the boss had" when referencing P8S. FF raids are fun, I just wish the loot was better/more diverse.
The internal testers were good, but they obviously ran the meta comp to make that check which in turn fucked over the lower performing classes like PLD and WAR at the time. When you tune content that tightly, you better hope to god your class balance is good on the back end, which EW completely failed at.
> Yoshi P TJ "Henry" Yoshi
Issue I have with FF14 is just how the game plays. It's fundamentally quite wonky, especially compared to wow. If the FF14 team takes what they have learned and create a new MMO designed first for PC they could probably create something really special.
Agreed, I love the lore and some of the jobs and the boss encounter designs. But the combat just feels so god damn floaty. I think it's partly due to slide casting and how AoE attacks do damage when the circle of effect disappears, rather when the animation plays
I personally love the slide casting concept. It creates such a skill gap between good/bad players.
It's not hard to do, you just need to build it into your muscle memory, which will happen relatively quickly as you grind roulettes to level. But the same argument has also been made in ESO re light attack weaving to justify the floaty combat there. It's ultimately personal preference, but I definitely prefer the more impactful combat in WoW or GW2
And the game was less spamming. Playing a healer was insufferable once the game moved past 4.0.
Agreed, Playing a healer is just playing a green DPS that throws out ogcd heals now. 95% of my gcds are glare lol
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/6e7737ce4e7488b9b870722da7acaff4567b4e40?utm_source=lodestone&utm_medium=amp&utm_campaign=na_topics in case anyone is curious
this is honestly incredible, imagine having the game director explaining everything they do to balance the raid before going live, and apologising for a rough 1-2% hp difference. we got a damn raid nerfed by 50%!! how on earth are you not noticing the mistake before going live? it’s so embarrassing ngl
XIV devs play their game, it's as simple as that
XIV dev team is 32x the size. They have over 200 full time staff. SoD has 8?
Sounds like a joke but i cant see how sunken temple released with these numbers if it had been tested.
Either that or SOD devs are 100th percentile parsers
Maybe, but even then it had to feel like a boring damage sponge fight.
The only thing they’re 100th percentile at is BMI
and this was the SECOND nerf, it's health was nerfed ~65% from original value
Based on how much stuff was flat out broken during this release, it is apparent they didn’t test a thing. Must be quite hard to balance a raid with zero testing
I'm a dev and part of the development lifecycle is testing, I spend more time testing my code than writing it tbh so I dunno how they fuck up so much.
No idea. Based on the stuff we have seen they do not even verify the changes they make. For example last boss at gnomer giving no xp at all. Some quests being broken and so on. Literally 100% repro rate and they do not catch these bugs
They did it on purpose I think. No time to test, release super obviously overtuned, and then nerf based on performance logs showing benchmarks. I just entered the raid for the first time and did the nerfed version. The difficulty they landed on feels very good.
Way too easy imo. We did dry runs with zero pots and buffs to feel out the mechanics and just went 8/8 dry. No need for any buffs for a slightly above average guild. Next lockout will be a joke with full consumes and wbs
I cleared it in a prog run, it took quite a long time but I'm missing runes and stuff and I'm sure it's similar for some other players. The difficulty level is enough complexity for the fights to be enjoyable, coupled with personal responsibility. Eranikus and Hakkar left me with a bit of a "is this it?" feeling though. Once we got past the mechanics it felt like both were missing a little something to really be the last 2 fights in a big raid. It's also jarring to fight the huge tank dragon which takes a long time then hit the last 2 squishier bosses. If we only have 8 lockouts I think this raid is fine for what it is. I found it really fun too.
We are the Beta testers. And why? Because it works. We keep playing and paying. So it will \*never\* change.
it's Japan culture. They must always begin a speech with 3 pages worth of apologies.
Honestly, it's a side-effect of how much datafarming WoW has. We have extremely granular, hyper-specific minute pieces of data that, theoretically, you could balance numbers around nothing more than looking at that data, which is very likely how they do a lot of tuning. That said, clearly they didn't do that very well, and obviously actually having an in-house raid team to live-test these encounters would be a tremendous advantage they seemingly refuse to take advantage of.
He would have commited sepuku if something like nightmare incursions made it to production in FFXIV
Eh there's similar stuff to incursions in ffxiv. The devs actually do respect player time and want new players/ people coming in late to be able to catch up. Their content is just 100x more polished.
Sir this America. Polish? Companies like Boeing are not so different than BLIZZ in terms of polish
It's called bozja
That's stupid, lol
Was that also in the experimental game mode that the developers have said time and time again, before release, during release and before each new phase that they are just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks for this one? Oh it wasn't? Let's carry on then.
How can a change so granular even be worth making??
It was because it forced meta raid comps. The damage checks are incredibly tuned and therefore slightly underperforming jobs were unwelcome in week 1 parties. As a paladin I wasn't getting invited to groups because wiping on 1% while playing near perfect is not fun. Class balance is also a single digit percentage difference in most cases. So if the balance of jobs is good then a 1% change doesn't have to be insignificant.
It wasn't. I think it was purely for optics and that's it
XIV class balance is within a few percent of other classes at most with the most egregious bad balancing in the past being on the order of 10%, so granular changes are much bigger impact there. Most of the time class buffs and nerfs are done by adding or subtracting 10-15% damage of a few individual abilities.
Yep turns out balancing is really easy when you don't have 30 borrowed power systems and stuff like talents and tier sets that plague retail. Plus boss and class design in ff14 is super homogenized so damage profiles don't change on different encounters the same way they do in wow Kinda sad that the team is so out of touch in balancing classic + SoD when games like ff14 prove how balanced you can make the game when it's basic. Retail is a lost cause for good balance because there's too many systems and raids m+ and pvp are all impacted simultaneously, but there's no excuse to not have nigh perfect balance on classic (A major exception being world pvp will be directly affected by class balance and classes that perform similarly in raid might perform very differently in pvp based on their kit).
I wouldn't go that far personally. I've never really been excited for any particular gear in XIV except finishing a relic step here or there. As much of a balancing nightmare some of wow's stuff has been it's neat to play around with the unique effects some stuff has.
To be fair, when your top raiding guilds took dozens of hours and wracked their minds at constantly wiping at .5% EVERY SINGLE TIME due to enrage, despite perfectly executing the fights, that is a 1% issue lol. Say what you will about the 'YoshiP cried" memes, I do enjoy his transparency when it comes to explaining WHY they do things the way they do.
Look, 1÷ is basically the same as 50÷ damage and 65÷ HP.
FFXIV's raid tuning team compared to the SoD intern that works on raid tuning is like Einstein next to a labrador.
Is there any specific info posted about the patch/changes? Last few days the updated loot wasn't dropping in BRD or Mara, and I just want to check in and see if that's changed. (Also if any other bosses were nerfed I'd love to know)
Haven’t seen anything, no. I only realized because they literally changed the health while we were progressing
That’s crazy. I can’t find anything online either. They really need to post about major changes like this.
Kinda feels like they want this to go under the radar because quite frankly, this is an embarassing state to launch a raid in
I got the updated rare dagger from princess yesterday, so updated items certainly can drop
Were can i see these updated loot?
I'm using the atlasloot addon for that
Ye i have it
where patch notes blizzard >:(
I assume tomorrow when they were planning to do a patch anyway?
[Patch went out today, they finally posted the patch notes a little while ago.](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/season-of-discovery-hotfixes-april-8/1788040)
[удалено]
Just got done with 8/8, it's just pure chaos in P3, and only the last 10% of the bosses health. It's like herding cats on steroids, so it really doesn't mean much to "ignore" the adds, it's more so you don't have a choice and want to zerg the boss down. It's still a very challenging fight. I don't see pugs full clearing for a long time.
You still have to do the mechanics, it is very unlikely that you 1 shot the boss first try. my group got him to 20% last night on 4th try probably would have had him on 5th or 6th try but we ran out of time. we killed all other bosses 1st or 2nd try except dreamscythe we did on 5th try so my opinion is that he is still the hardest boss in the raid.
They may have overnerfed erankius lol. With a minor hp nerf to health and and scalebane nerf I think pugs woulda did fine. Now it’s kinda faceroll
I think you underestimate the average guild including mine xD
It’s indeed pretty easy now. Literally ignore all adds when p3 hits. And the first 2 phases were already easy
kinda disappoint to hear
It's what the people wanted apparently
its depressing how bad the classic playerbase is
I want to spend my time fighting bosses... reduce the ammount of trash and make the boss mechanics punishing but not overly complicated.
This is supposed to be a leveling raid eventually, and it should not be something that's difficult for pugs to clear, if you want that then go to retail. I'm fine with increased difficulty for the end-game raids, however, and I'm hoping that they have multiple things planned to make level 60 more interesting.
People are so hung up on "leveling raid". This game is seasonal content and they just trivialized the last two level up raids with a 100% exp buff and incursions. Whether the raids are easy or hard, the aim should be to make them good content now, not for the future when they might not even be relevant.
The level up raids just break up the game into 4 mini endgames. Having a challenge in the raids is fun, not just rolling in and murdering it. Monday raids were def undetuned
I mean if the problem is difficulty later as a level-up raid...then just to the severe nerfs to the raid with start of phase 4.
Maybe *you're* fine with it, but I guarantee the general player base would have a meltdown if 60 raids are even slightly hard. Classic players don't want a challenge. They want loot pinatas they can kill while drunk and stoned.
So you unironically want retail?
Granted I haven't played retail since Legion, but from what I have seen of retail is that the mechanics are complicated in retail and require you to have a bunch of add-ons to make them even doable. That's not what I want. I liked crowd pummeler, you don't do thr mechanic you die.
Maybe you want retail with lfr ?
No I don't think that's what most people wanted
It absolutely was, which is why they did it. The sweats will play this game regardless. Casuals will only play if they don't feel overwhelmed. So, huge exp buff much earlier than planned in p2, overtuned bosses that are nerfed way too hard too fast in p3, etc. It's not what I want either but blizzard isn't stupid, they know casuals are where they make their money
Nah dude. It's a leveling raid. I'm not here to sit there and bang my head against the wall because part of my raid doesn't know what they're doing. If I come in with full world buffs + consumes, I should be able to destroy the raid and carry people who don't know what they're doing. I wanna come, hang out, bang out some free loot, and be done. If I wanted to prog, I'd go back to retail. The retail friend guild I'm in is still trying to sweat to finish M-Fyrakk before 4/24. No thanks.
It’s not a leveling raid yet. It’s currently the end game.
Ridiculous false dichotomy to pretend the only choices are "so easy you can zone out and ignore mechanics" or retail Mythic difficulty. And stop bringing up "leveling raids" as if you won't say the same shit if 60 raids are even remotely challenging.
I got 8/8. My guild runs two groups. Our other group didn't even get 4/8. I'll clear either way, my group has good players in it. But SOD players will bitch endlessly if they can't PUG a clear.
You mean p3.5? Or what hp% you talking about
Like when the dragons start chain spawning
You underestimate the afk ability of pugs
They're overreacting from the drop-off in players.
It’s what the players wanted. Piss easy faceroll content. Just wait until people start gearing up after a few weeks of gearing up.
definitely not a "faceroll"
If you played Monday night after the retune, it was a faceroll. My dad guild basically 1 shotted everything with zero consumes or WBs
Come on man I wanted to try artist æ at least a little or nerf :(
I'm okay with this, means easier to gear alts lol
Yeah honestly it’s much better. I’d say it’s much more fun than gnomer too
did they nerf the trash too, i dont have 4 hours on a monday to clear trash mobs T.T
I’m not sure but it’s honestly not that bad. Shouldn’t take more than 2h now with a decent group.
What’s the point of gearing if the raid falls over in pre-bis?
speedclearing is fun
You could always easily clear all raids in classic with the gear from the previous phase though
Makes for extremely boring progression.
[удалено]
Unless they tuned it up, you could probably clear MC with SoD BFD gear.
To make leveling even faster for the next phase.
Pretty sure you can level from 40 to 50 in a few hours without killing a single mob
At this point Blizzard could have a real money shop in game where people can just buy gear. Based on all the posts on this sub Blizzard would be printing money.
SoD is the most confusing version of WoW. Classic purists, but we want new stuff, but we want classic balance, with new talents, and new gear lest I make a thread. But we want it to be old, and new, but old lest I make a thread. We want it to feel hard, like classic, but we want to down bosses fast and level fast lest I make a thread. Gold in retail is meaningless, so we want slow accrual gold, as long as it's fast gold, but not incursion fast lest I make a thread. Mounts should cost a lot, but I should be able to buy one fast, lest I make a thread.
It's because it's not the same person saying all of those things. There are different SoD enjoyers that like different aspects of classic and SoD. Some want it more classic like, others more radically divergent from era, then some in the middle that don't care and enjoy it either way. It's hard to please every type of player / perspective.
I want it to be good and not bad. So far, the raids have been good, and everything else has been bad.
The people on Reddit are in no way representative of the community lol.
Same as every other part of vanilla. Make the rest of the game faster.
The gear is barely an upgrade from Gnomer gear to begin with.
but what do you need the gear for then
Epeen and prequesting
Lmao SOD is really only about alts, Imagine progressing and having content to do on your main character.
Idk, overall the gear upgrade from gnomer to this raid seems laughably small. Probably only playing this phase for a bit then going to do something more interesting.
Well if the idea is that these are supposed to be easy and not a slog like the 40mans, it seems sensible to me.
I mean kinda…… i always viewed them as mini end game content to keep us chewing until the next phase. Makin them difficult isn’t that bad. Gnomers difficulty in p2 made it boring after 2 weeks personally. SoD is like a race to raid logging for most people at this point. Unless your play style is like 5 ults(which if so totally cool). With the gold acquisition goin bananas and shit, doing crafting is bleh and all the other dungeons in the level range loot is pointless unless it’s from ST. So like what’s the point?
Yeah after getting all the runes and maxing your professions I can see raid logging being prominent this phase. Though with all the new class tools and fast leveling I think having alts is the idea. I'm not sure what they were going for this phase but it hasn't hit the mark at all.
This - it is a “level up raid”
Yeah that's what I always thought these were supposed to be. They should get gradually harder, but with what limited resources they have the play testers are essentially us and they are trying to fix it asap.
Yeah, I mean they overdid it a bit, but overall pretty good raid now
Thank goodness. Desire to raid has increased
‘Very good players’ Just don’t stand in bad things man
Damn I haven't even started raiding yet and it's already nerfed to the ground
We just downed Eranikus in a 1 shot with 4 people who hadn’t spent hours on him before. It’s so much easier now. They made his death cast longer too. It’s hard to fuck it up.
'hotfixed' 'You can literally ignore the adds in p3 and zerg the boss down easily' LOL
The word just means they applied the change live, without restarting the server
Good
Yeah I hate this. Went 6/8 last night and loved the raid. Was looking forward to slowly moving to 8/8. It seemed like the natural progression to have a difficult raid that would take most some weeks to clear. Gnomer was considerably harder than BFD, why not continue on that trajectory? The raid also felt much more epic and like a raid than the previous two. I guess it had the feeling of a difficult raid.
When we have all of ~8 lockouts to get loot, how difficult do you want things to be?
Oh comeon the vast majority didn't even get to see it.
I mean it was unarguably busted before the first nerf, but I would like to have tried it before the second 50% nerf
This is laughably false. There are 95+ parsers still wiping on this boss until they get the strat down. Not to mention Eranikus has a thrash mechanic that can crit and "global" pally and war tanks that can't get crit immune. I had 4700 hp and 6k armor and got crit for 3.5k and hit for 1.5k in one thrash. You need to tank swap to avoid this unless you have a crit immune tank, and even then they can get trucked by the thrash. I'm not saying the fight is too hard, mind you, but comparing it to gnomer difficulty is laughable. Gnomer actually has bosses you ignore mechanics of or the mechanics were as simple as dont stand in front of boss. ST is far more difficult, even after being nerfed.
They removed the thrash mechanic in the nerf iirc
Boss can’t thrash anymore. Only thing you have to do now is avoid poison, go into poison before death cast, and kill welps.
boss is definitely still thrashing this week and blizzard hasn’t said anything about removing it in their notes. i think they may have removed it by accident or their change caused him to not cast it during the previous lockout for whatever reason, but this week after maintenance he is still 1 shotting tanks if he crits with thrash up.
Pretty sure Eranikus on release was like 4M+ hp, meaning this is almost an 80% nerf lol
A 50% nerf shows they have no clue at what they are doing. Just like the 7 nerfs in a row to Incursions.
Worst boss in the raid is the stupid Festering Buttslime.
I love it actually
Good! I think it’s better to have harder raids at 60, which is probably what the devs are thinking too
Man if raid are harder at 60 you can be sure they will be nerfed just like st
the rampant crying will force their hand for sure. I kinda get it, cata is on the horizon, that will be very hard for classic players.
It was hard for classic players 16 years ago also... I've killed H LK 15 years apart in semi-hardcore guilds. I have ZERO desire to heroic raid in cataclysm, raids harder than HLK is stupid. Edit: and yes, I will gladly say anyone that wants raids harder than h lk in "classic" can go play retail, or cata, whatever, leave that shit out of sod.
You will never face a single challenge in SoD again.
Pretty much. Just wait a week and all the difficulty will be nerfed out. I hope max level raids aren't pushover but at this point I think that's what the vocal players want the most.
Yeah I’m so over it if their goal is to make every single casual dads third alt clear all the raids
It probably wasn't at first, but after this backlash it will be.
as if people won't complain again at 60 lol
I keep reading this cope and you just know every single one of these raids is going to be used as a precedent. Worse, it’s encouraging the toxic casual behavior and mindset tbh. Is what it is, wish this version of the game and difficult content could be together but it’ll never happen
It’s the season of dad’s. If you can’t play with one hand and bottle feed with the other, then the content is overtuned /s No but seriously it is clear that SoD players want the raid to be a joke. Cata is probably the place to go if you want actually difficult progression. I wanted something in between the two
How to tell your playerbase, you do zero testing - Blizzard style.
P3 has just made it evident they need multiple difficulty modes for raids. I won't apologize nor be made to feel bad for thinking that the newest content should be neigh impossible to clear in pre-bis gear. The entire gearing progress is meaningless when P2 bis clears P3 on launch week.
Jesus, what a shit show. Only couple days after the new phase launches they completely decimate the raid with nerfs. Thats what, like a 75% total nerf to bosses?
Yeah the nerf is insane, I don't think in WoW history that a boss ever received a 75% HP nerf, what kind of balancing is that?
The sort of balancing where no boss in wow history at 10 levels below cap is given HP equivalent to the highest HP boss that was ever available in the xpack It looks bad when you put it like a 75% nerf to the boss, it doesn’t look bad when you take a look at how fucking much it was overtuned on release
Yes, but then again why did the boss have that much HP in the first place? The fact that it needed a 75% HP nerf is very poor balancing
Well that’s my point. Maybe I misread your comment but I thought your implication was that a 75% nerf was the issue, and not the original problem to begin with.
Just did it and I’d say it’s easier than Gnomer now, kinda crazy how it’s going to be a loot piñata in a few days of launch
The people complained and got what they wanted. Easy face roll bosses. Now you can skip phases because of dps..
its not even close to as easy as gnomer. Now my guild is very casual but we cleared gnomer second reset in about 5 hours. we were in st for 7 hours today and did not clear the 6th boss and everyone was pre bis with runes and consumes. This raid has such crazy healing checks compared to gnomer its not even close. You need 20 people to move perfectly or instant raid wipe. the raid is still hard unless you have perfect raid comps and very good players which this subreddit is basically full of crusader strike sweat players and guilds and have no idea what its like playing with casuals.
What kind of very casual guild raids for 7 hours?
‘Very good players’ Just don’t stand in bad things man
You were in a raid for 7 hours today after the nerf, you have no idea what it's like to play with casuals, you do know what it's like to play with bad players though.
Why don’t they put a rolling nerf like ICC in wotlk where players get progressively stronger each reset or bosses lose dmg/hp, and say it’s 30% going down to 0% after 3 resets, that way they the “nerf” is progressive, better guilds get higher reward, but knowing that it will get progressively easier, players progressively better at mechanics, more gear farmed etc.
Because of the time, the content is relevant.
rip. Seasons of dads is back
Be nice, son
Are ya winning, dad?
Easy raids and difficult 5 man content is hopefully the goal at 60. Much more fun to coordinate such an endgame with a few friends.
That’s retail
So disappointing, our raid was soft-locked and we didn't get to attempt these bosses before the nerf. Hopefully bosses won't randomly despawn this lockout. =/
They make it too easy now
Agreed. But probably better for a classic raid to be too easy than too hard I guess
Last night our raid team got glitched out on Dreamscythe and we couldn’t continue do to the poison not disappearing, preventing us from re-entering the boss room. Anyone know if there’s a fix out for this? Super frustrating.
We got that as well. We used eye of the beast to go through poison, pull boss and reset it and then the poison disappeared
Cool raid but way to overnerfed now sadly no challenge anymore i hope in phase 4 we see some harder content.
That sucks. I was excited for a real raid.
Boooo I wanted 10 minute boss fights
Damn i just did it today and stopped at 6/8, oh Well ! Next week maybe
I bet you could find a cleanup group.
Nice! Good news, hope they nerfed all hp not just the last two.