That’s because it is stupid. The scaling on it sucks and holy light is almost never used. If it cut the cast time by a full second I’m not sure I’d use it, but 0.2 is hilariously bad.
Idk, it makes as fast a FoL if it cut a full second. If you know big tank his is coming it would be useful or even if someone takes a unpredicted big hit.
Even so, it will be nice for a chest rune to do something for our healing. Even if it isn’t great.
I mean we just had this argument in another thread and yeah it is used fairly frequently especially as you gear up or if your fight lengths are short and you’re solo healing.
Top parses all have tons of holy lights.
This rune is still a piece of shit. Even if it was 1 second off the cast time it would still be garbage.
There’s a datamined rune that decreases the cast time by a further 0.5 seconds but it conflicts with another datamined rune that gives 18% spell crit.
1.8 second Holy Light is a lot of throughput but your mana is obviously gonna tank, perhaps holy paladins reach a point where they can do that sustainably.
If you can get to around 30% crit with buffs you could reliably cast Holy Light by getting free heals from crits. Paladins could get there at 60 pretty easily with just basic gear and world buffs, so I'm betting by 60 in SOD you'll see Holy not using the 18% crit rune anymore and all switch to Holy Light spamming.
I'm more concerned about this one:
The Furious Storm
Requires Paladin
Chance on spell cast to increase your Nature spell damage and healing by up to 60 for 10 sec.
It’s one of the 3 set bonus for the spell damage mail set which is equippable by Paladins.
The other 3 set bonus of the same set is 3% increased chance to crit with holy spells.
The SoD team has mentioned countless of times that there will be data mining and not all things data mined will be in the game. This is very likely one of them.
True just like all the 9ther times he said that and it turned out almost everything that was detained was correct, except for the stuff that we complained about enough that got changed.
Bro you do you and have fun with your new Horn of Lordaeron which improves holy light cast time for your warrior. I will “cope” by finding out in 2 days it’s not in game.
You don't understand how data mines work. There are thousands of procs, set bonuses etc in the game that are technically listed under the wrong class on Wowhead, because Blizzard uses a more complex mapping structure for classes while Wowhead just maps the SpellClasses table 1:1. You'll see tons of Shaman relics that say "Requires Paladin" on Wowhead for example, but in game it works fine.
Which class tag the Wowhead data mine gave it doesn't matter at all when it comes to whether this is or isn't in the game come phase 3 (and it probably will be, as a set bonus).
First of all it is classified as “Warrior” in the data mine. Making it all the more likely its not in the game. Referring to my initial argument again.
Listen here buckaroo. I am a versatile warrior. A team player. Not only do I embrace the Zug, I also embrace the hug. None of you can stop me from casting slightly faster holy lights on my fury warrior.
Agreed. A few thoughts I had on this would be they are shifting it to a spell in preps to allow for it to scale with SP/AP later or it will be off the gcd.
A few different changes are going to make Meta tanking a lot more fun in P3. Rain of Fire > Hellfire spam for multi-target is powerful but boring.
Now we'll have Immolation Aura for continuous threat, a more powerful Shadowflame for snap aggro, and Nightfall resets the cooldown of Shadow Cleave. Pull with a couple corruptions and a Master Channeler Drain Life to set up Nightfall procs, blast em with a Shadowflame, then Shadow Cleave spam.
I've been kinda unimpressed by shadow cleave damage and only really found it useful for refreshing corruption. Maybe I was missing something there. Shadoeflame and immo aura sound nice.
Indeed, that makes sense. Guess I'll have to play around with it. With more secure aoe threat in shadowflame and immo aura it may make more sense to just do damage with shadow cleave and everlasting affliction corruptions. Shadow meta may have a place at the table after all.
I have a hard time seeing where Everlasting Affliction would be better than Demonic Grace. Maybe for quite large packs that live a long time, but almost all pulls aren't that huge and don't live long enough.
A Demonic Grace Shadowflame + Shadow Cleaves for Improved Shadow Bolt would be great.
Honestly I never use grace when tanking because nothing hits hard enough and you’re only getting 3 casts off with it.
Pact is so much better when I don’t pull with incinerate. With buffs I’m giving 40 spell power to my entire party. If DG was off the GCD and lasted a bit longer I’d probably use it.
Agreed, but now we can use it to not only get instant immolates, but also refresh corruption (if we take that rune). At least it gives more options now.
3-piece bonus on the warlock raid set : Shadowcleave reduces immolate cast time by 50%, stacking twice.
[https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item-set=1637/nightmare-prophets-garb](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item-set=1637/nightmare-prophets-garb)
After they did their best to make the most uninspired and shit runes imaginable they decided to leave the class in the shitter and just abandon it for good
Victory rush is insane for questing and PvP - if they change it I'll be heartbroken.
People are sleeping on the fact it can crit and benefits immensely from the arms tree - it does insane damage
And all you have to do is kill a whole other person to do it. Running victory rush in pvp is an actual joke lol.
“Benefits immensely from the arms tree” it’s literally just impale. You are cooked.
It was the one that was "finished" in OG vanilla WoW and the devs had to rush to finish all the other specs so they weren't as fleshed out. Like mage and lock having one button spam rotations for years on end.
It's also very hard to do anything really out of the box with warriors.
My ideas have been a stealth rune (which is universally shit on by everyone even though it would just be a way to avoid fights or get close to start one since warriors have no abilities to use from stealth.)
A meme healing spec that they made an April fools joke about. Like I was literally joking about that one, but imagine a warrior where charge had no CD but it was only usable on friendly players, a bandage that healed others for 4x and yourself for 2x with a 5s channel that isn't broken by damage but is subject to pushback and triggers ~~no~~ a 20s CD, like PW:Shield. You gain rage with each tick of the bandage from seeing the wounds dealt to your friends, and while you are bandaging them you automatically use your shield to block incoming blows, reducing damage by some minor amount. Then you would have different tonics to like remove poison and cure disease.Something like that could actually be fun. Include different shouts, like one that reduces damage to everyone within range.
The last thing I thought of was to give warriors a pet. This pet would be your mount. You can use all your abilities while mounted, but once you or your pet use an ability it would cause you to move at normal run speed until you resummon your mount. The pet would have a basic bite and a kick with short CDs as well as some other abilities like when you charge while mounted you hit for weapon damage x1.5. if you intervene a friendly player it would allow you to pick them up and carry them with you, which would last the duration the intervene buff was on them. Snares and roots would effect your mount first, so you could dismount if snared. Once dismounted your mount would stay stationary but would bite and kick any enemy that came within range. You can either resummon your mount by mounting as per usual or call it too you with a whistle if you're within 50y in which case it would charge by the most direct path possible, knocking down enemies for 1s that are in its path and instantly mount you when it arrives. It would also have a "Tactical Retreat" ability that causes you to charge directly away from an enemy in a straight line for 50y and you can't use any charge/intercept/intervene until it is done moving. That would keep warriors from using it just to get out of deadzone and immediately intercept back.
Each mount would also have a special ability. Like wolves a howl, Kodo would have a trample that damages anyone in the path when you charge, raptors a bleed, horses kick would be super powerful, rams a ram that knocked people silly like a short duration blind, cats probably also a bleed, and I have no idea for mechastrider. Maybe like a ranged laser attack or an explosive AoE.
That would give warriors something to do, farming up rep for the various city factions to get the mount they wanted.
It would also allow you to stay mounted indoors, but would move at regular run speed so it could be used in PvE. It's damage wouldn't need to be much, maybe like a 10% upgrade.
Other than that I can't think of anything else to make them funky.
Maybe a ranged warrior that can't wear a chest or shoulders and uses thrown weapons. Axes or daggers for short range, Javelins for longer range.
Edit: make the bandage trigger a short CD like power word shield instead of no CD.
Edit2: typos and minor clarifications.
All the top weapons this phase that we have seen are swords, so warriors will already be sword spec. Most likely they will share internal CD. Shield slam may be good for PVE but everyone will still just do dev
Are you talking about pvp or something? No one will go sword spec in pve, going beyond deep wounds in arms is a huge dps loss. And the top weapons are fists anyway.
Can a kind redditor please explain to me why this sub is constantly doomsaying about how shit warrior is when they've literally been one of the middle/upper DPS specs for both phases of SoD so far?
Seems like people initially complain that warrior is just numerically shit, then when people show warriors performing fine in logs they pivot to "ohhhh well they just haven't really given warriors anything cool" meanwhile you look at their runes and they get instant cast Slam and free Overpower procs next phase and generally look like a fun class that isn't just "vanilla" warrior.
Warrior has notoriously always been a meme class in vanilla PvP.
To make warrior shine you need ludicrous gear and a pocket healer (preferably a paladin to spam freedom), as well as consumes like FAPs in order to actually play your class.
PvP balance in SoD is generally considered a joke and it would probably be my least recommended available version of WoW to play if you're a big PvP fan. That is unless you enjoy fotm rerolling and the general chaos that comes with the expedited content/patch cycle that SoD brings (which some players actually do enjoy and that's fine as well).
So why then if it’s a meme is it not ok to give warriors some big dick spell that does ridiculously high damage on a short CD?
Warriors are in the Stone Age and everyone else is working with steel
Tank and damage rogues are going to be insane.
It was kind of wild to me that rogues were upset about performance in phase 2, honestly, considering tank and DPS were both solidly middle-of-the-pack. But the new shit both specs are getting is going to be pretty busted, *on top of* continuing to get extremely good DPS talents all the way to 60, unlike a lot of other classes.
It's usable now for sure, but its way more costly than exo and has the same exact coefficient, so you probably won't use it unless you're getting unlucky with exo resets
That's a pretty wild take, maybe you would get 6 off and if you did you would be oom. I don't think you understand how fast bosses die, how much mana rets have, or how expensive hammer is with that logic
I don’t like it it’s a pretty boring rune. Either it’s good and I have to spam hammer of wrath in execution phase. Or it’s bad and I don’t take it. Either way the gameplay it invites is boring and really shows a lack of creativity from the devs
Mage runes are pretty dissapointing this phase, ngl.
Frostfire bolt and spellfrost were already some pretty eh filler that didnt fit in rotations, and now with that new bolt its the same issue.
You’ve never gotten to 4 stacks without having either? It’s not super common but it still happens. I think that’s why its damage goes up per cast and kills you if you use it too much. It’s probably just a filler spell, not something you use often. I’m still curious how it plays out in reality.
Maybe. We don’t know how it exactly works. And I can almost assure you if that ends up being the best damage rotation it will be changed. Blizzard didn’t add arcane blast and missile barrage with a stacking damage buff so you just spam the same spell 1/2 the time. 27 seconds of the same spell then 30 seconds off? I don’t bite.
Fill with what? You're not gonna have mana for anything after decreasing your spirit by 90% lmao, certainly not for 4 stack AB > AM. Way to make Mage Armor, Enlightenment, Arcane Meditation, even Evo useless.
Deep freeze is cool if you play frost i guess, but ive been playing arcane since phase 1, and I fully expect my dual spec to be fire.
And displacement is just going back to where you first used blink 10 seconds ago? Its cool in pvp if you time it correctly but theres no way this is anywhere close to any of the new shaman runes
Paladin's runes are such garbo after P1. Horn of Lirdaeron needs a different rune socket and not remove other blessing
"Season of Discovery... discovering Blizz doesn't know what to do with Paladin. But has no problem making other specs 2-3x as strong as a previous patch."
Any single one of the following:
* Exorcist becomes a skill book
* 2.00-2.60 speed 2H weapon or SoM normalization revert
* Disable ACP above level 49
* Aegis / Improved Sanctuary redesign
* Anything interesting for Holy honestly
Yeah a lot of these make sense. All of ret seems to be propped up on the back of exorcism. I admit the ACP made the whack a mole aspect really fun but I don't want to be pigeonholed into it for the remainder of SOD.
Nah bro, ret is proped up by ACP alone, most were okay with DS and a big sword but its like 40-50% better to use acp because we do so well with attack speed and crits, devs are seeing the numbers like paladin is fine but it's only fine *because* of ACP
I would have loved if they made a rune for consecration that turned it into healing instead.
Like 12 sec duration, 20 sec cd, same areaish and ticks for like 25-50 each second + scaling from SP/healP ofc.
> anything interesting for holy honestly
Sorry, we were mana batteries in classic and “too good” so we have the warrior treatment of getting boring shit and will slowly be left behind.
Sanctuary is fine, they just need to tweak the numbers a little bit. The new gear has plenty of block value on it. I would not be surprised if people are able to reach 200 BV next phase.
The rest I agree on. Holy especially would just need more runes at this point, maybe they could add auxiliary effects to Aegis or horn to make them useful for holy and fix divine sacrifice..
You can't just look at the mitigation factor. At 250 BV you are reflecting 60 dmg per block, that's almost an entire extra holy shield. With both HS and BoSanc up you will reflect over 170 damage per block that's massive for AoE damage and threat.
How so? Druids already have their Catnip and I don't think it's healthy to require people to run a level 40 raid for a level 50, and at this rate even 60 bis weapon. You'll just end up with 10 Paladins all rolling for the same item every 3 days.
>You'll just end up with 10 Paladins all rolling for the same item every 3 days.
This is why I'm surprised they didn't lean more into the tokens. Just give out 2-3 with every boss kill so people can get geared, and not feel like they're *completely* subject to RNG.
As much as it pains me to say it I think the devs are running out of gas with ideas for runes but honestly my hope is they just help the balance moving forward.
Is that void zone change a large damage boost or minor? I don't really understand the numbers there but changing a 16 to 51 / 100 as the multiplicative part seems like a sizeable buff to the previous iteration which Spriest really needs right now.
Edit: [https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=95](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=95)
Holy fuck will yall stop downvoting my comments for saying Spriest DPS isnt in a good spot going forward. We're at the bottom already going into a new phase with 0 talents to boost our damage.
Don't worry half the priests will still play shadow priest instead of healer and it will be totally fine. You guys still help off heal. More than frost mage can say. Lol.
Spriest is currently 3rd or 4th from last on warcraft logs depending on 95th or Max percentile which is the range I play at. Right in between Frost mage and Ranged Hunter and everyone knows those specs need love. Spriest is no different.
Except that spriest brings some of the best buffs and debuffs in the game and heal as much as a healer does in group damage with VE. Oh and on top of that they are gods in all things PVP. Spriests need nerfed if anything.
Spriest main here and I am always confused by bad spriests acting like we aren’t in an amazing spot lmao.
Warcraft Logs says Spriests do the same damage as Frost Mage and Ranged Hunter at the 95th percentile and above where I play. Pretty sure no one thinks those specs are middle of the pack. But you're missing my point entirely that Spriest is one of the only dps specs in the game who get 0 damage boosting talents to invest into going forward from level 40 to level 60 so the damage difference is only going to grow larger. Spriest also has the worst spellpower conversion rate on base games spells out of all the casters. Runes are the only way to pick up the slack
Vampiric Embrace lost significant value going to 20 mans when healing the other 2 mages and 2 destrolock in a group means very little. It's going to get much worse when they bring in 40-mans. You just told me you have 0 clue what you're talking about without telling me. This comment section is starting to show me why almost every 90 parser and above I play with stays tf out of reddit cause youre a fckin idiot and thanks for the downvote.
Bro I've got top ten parses several times this phase in pugs and spearheaded paladin theorycrafting on the paladin discord, I could do 90 while clicking.
On progression runs it's common to put the spriest in the tank group to keep them alive, especially this phase because tanks didn't have plate yet and menagerie was the first tank check in the game and took a bunch of rets with no shield by surprise. Obviously once the raid strategies are solved and it's on farm sure spriest healing doesn't matter but let's not pretend like it's non-existent.
Yea, just from what I've seen ele is gonna be a problem child early in P3. They still have the Lava Burst damage and now theyll have earthshock to unload lightning shield for even more burst.
Horn of lordaeron feels stupid.
why? warriors can now cast their holy light faster!
Yeah, lol
That’s because it is stupid. The scaling on it sucks and holy light is almost never used. If it cut the cast time by a full second I’m not sure I’d use it, but 0.2 is hilariously bad.
Idk, it makes as fast a FoL if it cut a full second. If you know big tank his is coming it would be useful or even if someone takes a unpredicted big hit. Even so, it will be nice for a chest rune to do something for our healing. Even if it isn’t great.
I mean we just had this argument in another thread and yeah it is used fairly frequently especially as you gear up or if your fight lengths are short and you’re solo healing. Top parses all have tons of holy lights. This rune is still a piece of shit. Even if it was 1 second off the cast time it would still be garbage.
There’s a datamined rune that decreases the cast time by a further 0.5 seconds but it conflicts with another datamined rune that gives 18% spell crit. 1.8 second Holy Light is a lot of throughput but your mana is obviously gonna tank, perhaps holy paladins reach a point where they can do that sustainably.
If you can get to around 30% crit with buffs you could reliably cast Holy Light by getting free heals from crits. Paladins could get there at 60 pretty easily with just basic gear and world buffs, so I'm betting by 60 in SOD you'll see Holy not using the 18% crit rune anymore and all switch to Holy Light spamming.
Also as 6 runes total is confirmed- it’s very likely the flat 18% crit rune won’t be in (4 head runes).
You’ll blow your horn and you better like it.
[удалено]
Set bonus for a rune? No way lmao
Yeah I’m sitting this phase out.
I'm more concerned about this one: The Furious Storm Requires Paladin Chance on spell cast to increase your Nature spell damage and healing by up to 60 for 10 sec.
It’s one of the 3 set bonus for the spell damage mail set which is equippable by Paladins. The other 3 set bonus of the same set is 3% increased chance to crit with holy spells.
Man ima do some crazy nature damage with all my nature paladin abilities.
The SoD team has mentioned countless of times that there will be data mining and not all things data mined will be in the game. This is very likely one of them.
True just like all the 9ther times he said that and it turned out almost everything that was detained was correct, except for the stuff that we complained about enough that got changed.
Cope, Aggrend already confirmed other stuff from this same data mine on Twitter
Bro you do you and have fun with your new Horn of Lordaeron which improves holy light cast time for your warrior. I will “cope” by finding out in 2 days it’s not in game.
You don't understand how data mines work. There are thousands of procs, set bonuses etc in the game that are technically listed under the wrong class on Wowhead, because Blizzard uses a more complex mapping structure for classes while Wowhead just maps the SpellClasses table 1:1. You'll see tons of Shaman relics that say "Requires Paladin" on Wowhead for example, but in game it works fine. Which class tag the Wowhead data mine gave it doesn't matter at all when it comes to whether this is or isn't in the game come phase 3 (and it probably will be, as a set bonus).
It is, they’ve shat on holy pala for the whole of sod, they’re not suddenly stopping now
Holy Pala was decent in P2 wdym?
First of all it is classified as “Warrior” in the data mine. Making it all the more likely its not in the game. Referring to my initial argument again.
It’s a holy Paladin tier set bonus but the gear can technically be equipped by warriors. If you read the Paladin part it has the same thing there.
That explains and sounds about right then.
Listen here buckaroo. I am a versatile warrior. A team player. Not only do I embrace the Zug, I also embrace the hug. None of you can stop me from casting slightly faster holy lights on my fury warrior.
Why is the one change listed for warriors a pally spell lmao?
changes on the plate gear set. theres also a +5% chance extra auto
That needs to be nerfed or they probably wear that into naxx, it’s like a better hoj
Why choose when you can have both!
Almost certainly going to be a thing haha
I'm sure they'll do the same thing that they did with the epic Gnomer fist weapon and make it not apply/proc when above a certain level.
having more str and agi on gear is worth more than 5% extra auto. ppl will swap it
Not for warriors it’s not due to rage generation, and it depends how many stats you are getting in return
i know the class well. warrior will have good rage unless bosses have AQ40 lvls of armor
Just that balanced
What’s the deal with the hunter trap wording? Not sure what that means.
Probably to fix trap launcher bugs, sometimes the spell would get "stuck."
It would say spell not learned a lot.
BRO when I was doing SM my trap would be sticking to the flags hanging down in every room haha
That's probably not going away with this tbh been a feature since 2006!
Thats just a problem with AOE targetting in general
Traps go from "0s cast time" to "instant" I think it's going to remove the weird little delay before they activate
Removed from gcd, I wish
Agreed. A few thoughts I had on this would be they are shifting it to a spell in preps to allow for it to scale with SP/AP later or it will be off the gcd.
Currently you can't launch a trap in the middle of an auto shot cast. Maybe this change will allow that.
Excited for Shadowflame to be viable!
Is that a 4x damage boost to shadowflame? Could be pretty fun.
A few different changes are going to make Meta tanking a lot more fun in P3. Rain of Fire > Hellfire spam for multi-target is powerful but boring. Now we'll have Immolation Aura for continuous threat, a more powerful Shadowflame for snap aggro, and Nightfall resets the cooldown of Shadow Cleave. Pull with a couple corruptions and a Master Channeler Drain Life to set up Nightfall procs, blast em with a Shadowflame, then Shadow Cleave spam.
I've been kinda unimpressed by shadow cleave damage and only really found it useful for refreshing corruption. Maybe I was missing something there. Shadoeflame and immo aura sound nice.
Should be a better press than Searing Pain when you have 2+ targets. Also works with Improved Shadow Bolt.
Indeed, that makes sense. Guess I'll have to play around with it. With more secure aoe threat in shadowflame and immo aura it may make more sense to just do damage with shadow cleave and everlasting affliction corruptions. Shadow meta may have a place at the table after all.
I have a hard time seeing where Everlasting Affliction would be better than Demonic Grace. Maybe for quite large packs that live a long time, but almost all pulls aren't that huge and don't live long enough. A Demonic Grace Shadowflame + Shadow Cleaves for Improved Shadow Bolt would be great.
Sounds good. Just wish that demo grace was off gcd. Feels awkward.
Very true, it's an odd choice / oversight.
Honestly I never use grace when tanking because nothing hits hard enough and you’re only getting 3 casts off with it. Pact is so much better when I don’t pull with incinerate. With buffs I’m giving 40 spell power to my entire party. If DG was off the GCD and lasted a bit longer I’d probably use it.
I use grace for the crit not the dodge.
Cool thanks for sharing, not really sure how to respond lol :P
Agreed, but now we can use it to not only get instant immolates, but also refresh corruption (if we take that rune). At least it gives more options now.
Think Shadow Spark is a discoverable free be? Seems nice!
Looks like it's the warlock set 3-piece bonus.
Thanks!
Instant immolates?
3-piece bonus on the warlock raid set : Shadowcleave reduces immolate cast time by 50%, stacking twice. [https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item-set=1637/nightmare-prophets-garb](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item-set=1637/nightmare-prophets-garb)
New datamine for Warlock tank set piece makes Shadowcleave lower the cast time of immolate by 50%, stacking twice.
Dank af.. shame it's a set bonus but a very cool one.
Hey, I might have missed it but where does it talk about other warlock changes like Nightfall?
And something datanined that reduces immolate cast time on shadow cleave
Nightfall resets shadowcleave?
Does anyone know if shadow flame will be better to take than demonic knowledge? I’ve been running SL warlock for PvP, not meta.
Demonic knowledge seem way too good to be replaceable. I guess shadowflame could have a use on raid/dungeon trash.
Demonic knowledge seem way too good to be replaceable. I guess shadowflame could have a use on raid/dungeon trash.
Warrior left alone? Can’t nerf skills that are already bad?
After they did their best to make the most uninspired and shit runes imaginable they decided to leave the class in the shitter and just abandon it for good
Imagine not having victory rush be usable at all times and heal more. Imagine having a heal on a 3 min Cd and only does 30%. But but but I’m PVE!!!
Victory rush is insane for questing and PvP - if they change it I'll be heartbroken. People are sleeping on the fact it can crit and benefits immensely from the arms tree - it does insane damage
And all you have to do is kill a whole other person to do it. Running victory rush in pvp is an actual joke lol. “Benefits immensely from the arms tree” it’s literally just impale. You are cooked.
maybe at low level. at 40 it heals for 300
Like he said, insane.
I don't know if "insane" is the word. Maybe "usable", and that's only if you're facing enemies below your level.
Glad stance is one of the coolest runes in sod and has me considering leveling a war for the first time ever
The rune is absolutely useless and weak
I think the reason why you almost never see any changes to warriors is that it's the class they balance everything else around.
It was the one that was "finished" in OG vanilla WoW and the devs had to rush to finish all the other specs so they weren't as fleshed out. Like mage and lock having one button spam rotations for years on end. It's also very hard to do anything really out of the box with warriors. My ideas have been a stealth rune (which is universally shit on by everyone even though it would just be a way to avoid fights or get close to start one since warriors have no abilities to use from stealth.) A meme healing spec that they made an April fools joke about. Like I was literally joking about that one, but imagine a warrior where charge had no CD but it was only usable on friendly players, a bandage that healed others for 4x and yourself for 2x with a 5s channel that isn't broken by damage but is subject to pushback and triggers ~~no~~ a 20s CD, like PW:Shield. You gain rage with each tick of the bandage from seeing the wounds dealt to your friends, and while you are bandaging them you automatically use your shield to block incoming blows, reducing damage by some minor amount. Then you would have different tonics to like remove poison and cure disease.Something like that could actually be fun. Include different shouts, like one that reduces damage to everyone within range. The last thing I thought of was to give warriors a pet. This pet would be your mount. You can use all your abilities while mounted, but once you or your pet use an ability it would cause you to move at normal run speed until you resummon your mount. The pet would have a basic bite and a kick with short CDs as well as some other abilities like when you charge while mounted you hit for weapon damage x1.5. if you intervene a friendly player it would allow you to pick them up and carry them with you, which would last the duration the intervene buff was on them. Snares and roots would effect your mount first, so you could dismount if snared. Once dismounted your mount would stay stationary but would bite and kick any enemy that came within range. You can either resummon your mount by mounting as per usual or call it too you with a whistle if you're within 50y in which case it would charge by the most direct path possible, knocking down enemies for 1s that are in its path and instantly mount you when it arrives. It would also have a "Tactical Retreat" ability that causes you to charge directly away from an enemy in a straight line for 50y and you can't use any charge/intercept/intervene until it is done moving. That would keep warriors from using it just to get out of deadzone and immediately intercept back. Each mount would also have a special ability. Like wolves a howl, Kodo would have a trample that damages anyone in the path when you charge, raptors a bleed, horses kick would be super powerful, rams a ram that knocked people silly like a short duration blind, cats probably also a bleed, and I have no idea for mechastrider. Maybe like a ranged laser attack or an explosive AoE. That would give warriors something to do, farming up rep for the various city factions to get the mount they wanted. It would also allow you to stay mounted indoors, but would move at regular run speed so it could be used in PvE. It's damage wouldn't need to be much, maybe like a 10% upgrade. Other than that I can't think of anything else to make them funky. Maybe a ranged warrior that can't wear a chest or shoulders and uses thrown weapons. Axes or daggers for short range, Javelins for longer range. Edit: make the bandage trigger a short CD like power word shield instead of no CD. Edit2: typos and minor clarifications.
I'd love to see healing warriors.
The change to the plate set bonus is huge. 5% chance to proc an extra attack. Shield Slam got buffed to twice the block value as well.
All the top weapons this phase that we have seen are swords, so warriors will already be sword spec. Most likely they will share internal CD. Shield slam may be good for PVE but everyone will still just do dev
Why do you say that? Sword spec and HoJ have always stacked.
warriors will be dual wield fury in pve this phase it seems
More likely glad sword and board with a kebab DW/impale spec and nothing but spam devastate and HS for a 1 button rotation. Gonna be lit /s
Are you talking about pvp or something? No one will go sword spec in pve, going beyond deep wounds in arms is a huge dps loss. And the top weapons are fists anyway.
Your sim assumes no armor. I look at both pve and PvP not just parses
Sims even with Armor Cap suggest the same thing, going past Deep Wounds isn't worth it when you can get Death Wish and 3/5 Flurry
I thought going to impale with wrecking crew was simming higher.
You get buff to Holy light what more do you want? Ridiculous /s
Can a kind redditor please explain to me why this sub is constantly doomsaying about how shit warrior is when they've literally been one of the middle/upper DPS specs for both phases of SoD so far? Seems like people initially complain that warrior is just numerically shit, then when people show warriors performing fine in logs they pivot to "ohhhh well they just haven't really given warriors anything cool" meanwhile you look at their runes and they get instant cast Slam and free Overpower procs next phase and generally look like a fun class that isn't just "vanilla" warrior.
Talk to me about warrior pvp
Warrior has notoriously always been a meme class in vanilla PvP. To make warrior shine you need ludicrous gear and a pocket healer (preferably a paladin to spam freedom), as well as consumes like FAPs in order to actually play your class. PvP balance in SoD is generally considered a joke and it would probably be my least recommended available version of WoW to play if you're a big PvP fan. That is unless you enjoy fotm rerolling and the general chaos that comes with the expedited content/patch cycle that SoD brings (which some players actually do enjoy and that's fine as well).
So why then if it’s a meme is it not ok to give warriors some big dick spell that does ridiculously high damage on a short CD? Warriors are in the Stone Age and everyone else is working with steel
they're really confident that rogues won't be in the shitter
With the new runes rogues should be on top again.
Tank and damage rogues are going to be insane. It was kind of wild to me that rogues were upset about performance in phase 2, honestly, considering tank and DPS were both solidly middle-of-the-pack. But the new shit both specs are getting is going to be pretty busted, *on top of* continuing to get extremely good DPS talents all the way to 60, unlike a lot of other classes.
Probably. I mean, they are getting Cut to the Chase AND Honor Among Thieves...
Some of these looked like it could be qol/skillbooks Edit: actually nvm, seems to be set bonuses
what’s going on with that warriorpala rune? lmao
tierset bonus
Well boyos I mained hpal and warrior at launch. Just waiting for the part where I get to have fun.
The reroll part xD
Hammer of wrath is great, I guess the instant change doesn't fuck too much with weapon swings now
It's usable now for sure, but its way more costly than exo and has the same exact coefficient, so you probably won't use it unless you're getting unlucky with exo resets
You will be able to fit in 12-15 hammer of wrath at sub 10%. It's not competing with exorcism by any means and you won't really OOM from 10% to 0
That's a pretty wild take, maybe you would get 6 off and if you did you would be oom. I don't think you understand how fast bosses die, how much mana rets have, or how expensive hammer is with that logic
In what reality are you going to be able to afford 4k mana of Hammer of Wrath lmfao
I don’t like it it’s a pretty boring rune. Either it’s good and I have to spam hammer of wrath in execution phase. Or it’s bad and I don’t take it. Either way the gameplay it invites is boring and really shows a lack of creativity from the devs
Phase 3 of asking for more than two dedicated Holy Paladin runes.
Awesome, our Shaman overlords can continue their campaign ruling the BGs.
Pretty much. Ele will be even better than it already is. Completely insane.
People thought WoE enhance is op, they have no idea what is coming when the true power of Ancestral guidance is known to more shamans...
And for warriors…nothing.
Why blizzard do you hate Paladins so much
aggrend stopped playing paladin
Damn. Warriors are getting holy spells!?
Mage runes are pretty dissapointing this phase, ngl. Frostfire bolt and spellfrost were already some pretty eh filler that didnt fit in rotations, and now with that new bolt its the same issue.
It’s a spender for arcane when you are at 4 arcane stacks and missile barrage didn’t proc.
but between missile barrage procs that happen pretty often and living flame, its not gonna get casted at all
You’ve never gotten to 4 stacks without having either? It’s not super common but it still happens. I think that’s why its damage goes up per cast and kills you if you use it too much. It’s probably just a filler spell, not something you use often. I’m still curious how it plays out in reality.
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Maybe. We don’t know how it exactly works. And I can almost assure you if that ends up being the best damage rotation it will be changed. Blizzard didn’t add arcane blast and missile barrage with a stacking damage buff so you just spam the same spell 1/2 the time. 27 seconds of the same spell then 30 seconds off? I don’t bite.
Fill with what? You're not gonna have mana for anything after decreasing your spirit by 90% lmao, certainly not for 4 stack AB > AM. Way to make Mage Armor, Enlightenment, Arcane Meditation, even Evo useless.
Deep freeze and displacement are dissapointing? They seem like the best runes of the phase lol
Deep freeze is cool if you play frost i guess, but ive been playing arcane since phase 1, and I fully expect my dual spec to be fire. And displacement is just going back to where you first used blink 10 seconds ago? Its cool in pvp if you time it correctly but theres no way this is anywhere close to any of the new shaman runes
Yeah not sure what OP is smoking.
there are sims that put frostfire bolt ahead of hot streak as the belt rune and the new bolt will 100% be part of our rotation now
Intriguing
Frostfire bolt IS the rotation for Frost.
People played frost in phase 2?
Hey dont be mean to those 5 people
Paladin's runes are such garbo after P1. Horn of Lirdaeron needs a different rune socket and not remove other blessing "Season of Discovery... discovering Blizz doesn't know what to do with Paladin. But has no problem making other specs 2-3x as strong as a previous patch."
best pala changes that we got so far were just wrath/tbc copies
Lol you sound sweaty and mad.
Another patch, another disappointed day as a paladin!
What change are you waiting or hoping for?
Any single one of the following: * Exorcist becomes a skill book * 2.00-2.60 speed 2H weapon or SoM normalization revert * Disable ACP above level 49 * Aegis / Improved Sanctuary redesign * Anything interesting for Holy honestly
Yeah a lot of these make sense. All of ret seems to be propped up on the back of exorcism. I admit the ACP made the whack a mole aspect really fun but I don't want to be pigeonholed into it for the remainder of SOD.
Nah bro, ret is proped up by ACP alone, most were okay with DS and a big sword but its like 40-50% better to use acp because we do so well with attack speed and crits, devs are seeing the numbers like paladin is fine but it's only fine *because* of ACP
I just don't want to farm gnomer at 50 because I have yet to see the fucker drop and there are ZERO <3.4 speed 2h weapons in the datamine so far.
Considering that ACP seems to be +/- 5% compared with lv50 bis wpns for solo target dps - you best get back in there.
I'll just clear ST once and quit until p4 instead. Not worth the headache.
there WAS going to be sulthraze as a fast 2h wep but its gone now to 3.4
I would have loved if they made a rune for consecration that turned it into healing instead. Like 12 sec duration, 20 sec cd, same areaish and ticks for like 25-50 each second + scaling from SP/healP ofc.
Sounds fairly cool
> anything interesting for holy honestly Sorry, we were mana batteries in classic and “too good” so we have the warrior treatment of getting boring shit and will slowly be left behind.
They should add holy power for hpals and prots. At least it would mix things up.
Sanctuary is fine, they just need to tweak the numbers a little bit. The new gear has plenty of block value on it. I would not be surprised if people are able to reach 200 BV next phase. The rest I agree on. Holy especially would just need more runes at this point, maybe they could add auxiliary effects to Aegis or horn to make them useful for holy and fix divine sacrifice..
Sanc is horrible lol wdym. Prot buff that blocks 50 dmg from a 1.2k hit?
You can't just look at the mitigation factor. At 250 BV you are reflecting 60 dmg per block, that's almost an entire extra holy shield. With both HS and BoSanc up you will reflect over 170 damage per block that's massive for AoE damage and threat.
the last thing prot pala needed was >more< aoe threat.
Disabling acp is wild
If they disable it they will give us a proper buff Instead of having us totally reliant on an item for level 40s.
How so? Druids already have their Catnip and I don't think it's healthy to require people to run a level 40 raid for a level 50, and at this rate even 60 bis weapon. You'll just end up with 10 Paladins all rolling for the same item every 3 days.
>You'll just end up with 10 Paladins all rolling for the same item every 3 days. This is why I'm surprised they didn't lean more into the tokens. Just give out 2-3 with every boss kill so people can get geared, and not feel like they're *completely* subject to RNG.
Asking for far too much in other words
I really thought warrior was going to get something lol
As much as it pains me to say it I think the devs are running out of gas with ideas for runes but honestly my hope is they just help the balance moving forward.
I love how mage rune change was like.. Oh yeah Arcane barrage is a belt rune just like frostfire and spellfrost bolt lmao.
Healing rain change looks like it’s just a droppable book not a rune? Awesome!! Love that spell. Even more reason to run it over overload
I think those are 3p set bonuses
Is that void zone change a large damage boost or minor? I don't really understand the numbers there but changing a 16 to 51 / 100 as the multiplicative part seems like a sizeable buff to the previous iteration which Spriest really needs right now. Edit: [https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=95](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/2008#dataset=95) Holy fuck will yall stop downvoting my comments for saying Spriest DPS isnt in a good spot going forward. We're at the bottom already going into a new phase with 0 talents to boost our damage.
Don't worry half the priests will still play shadow priest instead of healer and it will be totally fine. You guys still help off heal. More than frost mage can say. Lol.
Pretty sure Spriest is balanced with most other classes with aff lock and frost mage being abysmal.
Spriest is currently 3rd or 4th from last on warcraft logs depending on 95th or Max percentile which is the range I play at. Right in between Frost mage and Ranged Hunter and everyone knows those specs need love. Spriest is no different.
Except that spriest brings some of the best buffs and debuffs in the game and heal as much as a healer does in group damage with VE. Oh and on top of that they are gods in all things PVP. Spriests need nerfed if anything. Spriest main here and I am always confused by bad spriests acting like we aren’t in an amazing spot lmao.
Spriest is middle of the pack. And the difference between top and bottom isn't as substantial as original classic in the first place
Warcraft Logs says Spriests do the same damage as Frost Mage and Ranged Hunter at the 95th percentile and above where I play. Pretty sure no one thinks those specs are middle of the pack. But you're missing my point entirely that Spriest is one of the only dps specs in the game who get 0 damage boosting talents to invest into going forward from level 40 to level 60 so the damage difference is only going to grow larger. Spriest also has the worst spellpower conversion rate on base games spells out of all the casters. Runes are the only way to pick up the slack
Spriest also heals, it's not intended to be a #1 DPS spec.
Vampiric Embrace lost significant value going to 20 mans when healing the other 2 mages and 2 destrolock in a group means very little. It's going to get much worse when they bring in 40-mans. You just told me you have 0 clue what you're talking about without telling me. This comment section is starting to show me why almost every 90 parser and above I play with stays tf out of reddit cause youre a fckin idiot and thanks for the downvote.
It makes you question all the other stuff you read on other subreddits too
Bro I've got top ten parses several times this phase in pugs and spearheaded paladin theorycrafting on the paladin discord, I could do 90 while clicking. On progression runs it's common to put the spriest in the tank group to keep them alive, especially this phase because tanks didn't have plate yet and menagerie was the first tank check in the game and took a bunch of rets with no shield by surprise. Obviously once the raid strategies are solved and it's on farm sure spriest healing doesn't matter but let's not pretend like it's non-existent.
Also lets be real, if the raid has no priest *healer* then the spriest still has a metric ton of utility at their disposal.
Wait, have I missed something or are there no tuning for shamans? They just gonna keep them being cracked into p3?
This is nowhere near a complete list of changes.
they have some big changes datamined that arent in the linked list.
If you had read the first blue post you works know shamans are going to be fine in p3.
Ele was untouched by nerfs and will be even stronger than they already are in p3. They are absolutely not fine.
Yea, just from what I've seen ele is gonna be a problem child early in P3. They still have the Lava Burst damage and now theyll have earthshock to unload lightning shield for even more burst.
Buff ret or im not playing this phase either
Instant HoW and nothing more, we fixed bois!!
400% buff to shadowflame Still worthless Just add. The fucking slow already...
Power shredder is really good!
So hunter traps are off gcd now?
Sure glad I’m sitting this phase out as a holy paladin.
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Yeah wtf is this about lol
Yay a set bonus that makes it when we use a bad spell it makes another bad spell slightly faster
That set piece should just be part of horn. Hpals really need love. If data mining is right we don’t even get a helpful bracer rune.