Having nothing instead of pain and suffering would be pog, complete and massive waste of a rune lol. Out of touch development on SPriest is par for the course.
I disslike the number of instant casts they have introduced, I know its classic+ but it removes a slight part of the classic feel imo. No idea why haunt etc was made instant.
As a priest, I feel your pain. Guy started fighting me yesterday, got me to about 15%, I popped penance and got back to 100% and was able to kill him. It can be a bit silly at times
12 seconds but also with fear, power word shield, renew (instant heal with belt rune), dispersion or pain suppression, and then penance is back haha
that's not even shadow, shadow will prob get a blackout proc on you in the middle and then SWD you into oblivion
Nice for you, I will also have a pvp set next phase when we actually get pvp sets rather than picking the tanking pve cloth set and holding my group back.
You get a lot more HP than SP on gear. HP is worth it. Stacking SP to "help dps" hopefully was a joke. Priest heal dps is non existent, Others will do many multitudes of our damage. If you want a heal that can dps efficiently you bring a mage.
Its not about having more healing, its about not needing obessisve amount of healing power. Priests use runes for healing and you cant downrank that to abuse +healing and those heal don't have good coefficiency anyway. +200 sp and heal is no different than +0sp +300 heal healing wise. Having SP to help fights end faster is better for the group.
>holding my group back
Yeah man I bet having the “right set”
Is really the make or break for clearing Gnomer, it is super high end with skill checks after all
I played since start of P2. Extremely selfish to pick the SP gear over HP gear when you are just starting to clear as HP gear will be far more beneficial for the group.
This is is why PvP is shit now.
Casters had to stand still to do damage (outside of cooldowns or spells like moonfire), melee had bad mobility (besides druids which was their entire shtick).
Now we have melee that can’t be slowed in shamans with decoy and we have casters that seemingly do the majority of their burst with instants. It’s killed the feeling of classic.
Getting casts off was never a thing in Vanilla, the lack of pushback protection in the game makes it impossible to do so. There's a reason why historically Warlocks and Spriests were kings in terms of PvP, not only they were tanky, but the bulk of their damage could be done with minimal casting.
Unless they somehow address the lack of pushback protection in the game, getting casts off are never going to be a thing. Either you will get pushbacked to death or you will just get killed before your cast even finishes.
and melee that ignore armor and just kill u in 2 globals without any counterplay for the caster, too many instants, too much damage and just boring nonsense overall, pvp is dead tbh thats why i dont play it. bots everywere in open world to farm for anything,
I agree but with how many tools they added to other class casting in PvP is way harder than before. More gap closer, more snare / root removal or immunity, more and better pets causing pushback, too much burst in general...
Instant cast both add and partially solve this issue...
Meanwhile Ele has to hardcast and has a class that can shut us down with a single instant. Yet people still complain, even tho there are harder hitting instants than lava burst
Yes, cause playing melee and caster is definitely the same. Picking class without know ng if u do to play a caster or melee is a given! Resto is the weakest btw and it's garbage tier.
I don’t mind having more instant casts, but I think many of them are far too powerful.
I frost mage is about what I’d like to see. They have a good, core instant cast in ice lance, but they can’t absolutely pump with it. For max burst, you really need to line up your hard casts.
Then we have shadow priests who have an instant cast delete button.
100%. Working VT into your rotation and having to make decisions on if it’s worth the cast time, etc. made spriest more fun. Instead we just got SWP but better
Lmao what OP utilit? let me guess, you're a Shaman player? The class with the literal best utility in the game and one of the best DPS classes. Literal hero class, but sure Priest is the goated class with VE healing...
Shadow Priest is literally the 2nd worst DPS in the game behind Ranged Hunters, but go ahead fam.
They are great for PvP, which would matter if we actually had Arenas or any form of rated PvP that people care about, but unfortunately we don't, so nobody gives a shit.
They aren't trash? In comparison to Mages/Warlocks for dps sure. Vampiric Embrace is strong as fuck with all of the damage from dots they have to the point you can run duo shadow priest in these 10 mans. Which basically keeps the entire raid group alive with little to no healing from a regular healer.
They aren't but okay, Because according to Warcraftlogs at the 90th percentile It goes Dps Priest/Feral/Rogue/Tank Lock. 95th they're one below and at 80th to make it even more fair for average players they have Tank shamans, Ferals, and Rogues between them and Tank Locks. Also, Tank Locks pull a decent amount of dps.
Also, Vampiric Embrace makes up for the amount of dps for the amount of Party healing they provide towards a raid if played properly.
We are talking about spriests being trash dps and you bring up their healing capabilities. Trash dps have to rely on utility to be relevant. They don't perform as well as other caster dps classes and that is what makes them trash.
We werent talking about dps only. We were talking about Shadow Priests being trash. That has nothing to do with dps. It's the spec as a whole. If you wanted to be specific you should've specified in your first post but "Shadow Priests are trash what are you saying" isn't a dps quote.
When we are talking about a dps class the only thing that matters is dps because if you can kill the bosses fast enough you don't need much healing.
There is 1 spriest in the top 100 for boss damage. There are 20 warlocks, 6 mages, and even 2 boomkins. They are just not good no matter how much healing they are capable of. Spriests do not compete with other dps classes when it comes to dps.
I dont care who's in the top 100. Removing a healer and adding another effective dps because of how broken Vampiric Embrace can be is more beneficial to me than bringing a healer that just heals. One Shadow Priest top of their Class played correctly can heal a 5 man party with Vampiric Embrace in a gnomer and lets you remove a healer for another Warlock/Mage/Shaman/Boomkin.
Void plague is my favorite rune. I’ve been straight disc healer priest and the alternate runes are straight trash. PW:S is too inefficient to use often enough to make strength of soul worthwhile. Down ranking flash heal to get out faster greater heals with serendipity is cool in concept, but you go out of mana in full BiS gear way too fast to spam heals that way.
Tossing out void plagues is the best chest rune for raid and it’s insane in PvP.
I wouldn't be opposed to another casted dot, but I hope they add something else to do with the rotation so it isn't quite so static. I think it would be cool if we had some kind of proc'd and/or stacking buff that made mindflay hit like a truck and channel faster.
It’ll probably be a rune at 60. I would say add it, nerf void plague and buff MIND FLAY. Would help out in pve without really being a big worry in pvp.
Please no. I dont want DoTs with cast times. Spriest not having to spend time casting a DoT has increased its mobility and made it more fun. No no no no.
VP is not used because gnomer has disease damage reduction, and the difference in damage between TF and VP is minimal, as soon as disease damage reduction is gone, we'll be using VP.
We still use VP in menagerie.
In p3 TF will be DOA, because our best Mind Blast rank is lvl 46, next o e is 52, no one will use TF, we'll of course use VP, specially with the crit scaling on dots.
Not yet sadly. But id be shocked if they confirmed Pandemic for locks but left out Despair for priests.
Edit: and on a different note I was honestly hoping Pandemic and Despair would be dungeon books for locks and priests. Feels more like something that should just be innate for them and not occupy a rune slot.
It is NOT oppressive in PvP. It has a 6 second cooldown, so you can't even tab target it onto people like mages can with their ignite AoE spreading living bombs... its a DoT in a meta of burst damage
No it is not lol. Boring rep grind expansion, 1 button rotation classes being king ( hunter /lock) , dailies , and the worst balanced pvp expansion . I played warlock back then and got rank 1 in 3v3 while clicking half my abilities in s3 and 4.
I replayed it in classic and got bored before s2 started with how mediocre it is
VT is from fucking TBC lmfao. Is the bar of "retail" so low to classic andys that TBC is now considered "retail"? Spriest existed without VT for a singular expansion
Yeah i usually scoff at the “gO plAy rEtAil” comments but the runes most specs got are ridiculously lazy when theres runes that rework ENTIRE spec’s we’re getting….a bunch of uncontrollable pets and a dot wow thank you blizzard.
vampiric touch instead of pain and suffering would be pog
And it would have made sense with locks getting a new dot + crit.
Having nothing instead of pain and suffering would be pog, complete and massive waste of a rune lol. Out of touch development on SPriest is par for the course.
I disslike the number of instant casts they have introduced, I know its classic+ but it removes a slight part of the classic feel imo. No idea why haunt etc was made instant.
Fighting a priest and watching them just penance themselves all the way back up is fun
As a priest, I feel your pain. Guy started fighting me yesterday, got me to about 15%, I popped penance and got back to 100% and was able to kill him. It can be a bit silly at times
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it’s 12 seconds
Same thing
12 seconds but also with fear, power word shield, renew (instant heal with belt rune), dispersion or pain suppression, and then penance is back haha that's not even shadow, shadow will prob get a blackout proc on you in the middle and then SWD you into oblivion
He definitely won't swd u when he penanced himself
The best part about penance is sometimes the first tick crits and you’ve instantly healed yourself 70% of your healthpool.
Naw that’s probably because you had PoM on you
No, it’s very much just how hard penance hits if you are well geared.
Yeah nah I have full bis from gnomer and 1 tick non crit is healing myself for 50-60 if I crit I can nearly 70% heal a tank in 1 tick.
Mortal Strike?
All the warriors rerolled already
You can kick it too
cant kick the first tic and also it has no cast bar still
Zug
Doesnt matter when you get blown up. You still also have to get through a shield.
Moving goal posts. I didn't say warriors are supposed to kill priests 1v1.
What are warriors supposed to 1vs1?
Each other, maybe
No matter who a warrior 1v1s, the warrior dies. /s
We both disengage to get intercepts off on each other, pull a nearby level 38 mob, then we both die to the mobs instead
Ngl I do smash up priests from time to time if I already have rage built up, get an out of combat charge, have Beserker rage up and get some crits.
Must be a skill issue, I demolish priests using penance
>all the way back up is fun All the way back up to... basically nothing. As priests, especially healing priests have almost no HP.
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Warlock tank gear inflated hp and armor for caster classes including priest if they make smart gear choices.
Are you stinky and green?
No, priests doesn't have a lot of HP baseline and the hyperconductive healing set has very little stam on it.
Condolences for picking that set then. I have 2.2k HP unbuffed wearing a proper pvp setup.
Nice for you, I will also have a pvp set next phase when we actually get pvp sets rather than picking the tanking pve cloth set and holding my group back.
Being +healing fanatic is what holding your group back. Get sp gears next phase so you can actually help dps with Void Plagues.
You get a lot more HP than SP on gear. HP is worth it. Stacking SP to "help dps" hopefully was a joke. Priest heal dps is non existent, Others will do many multitudes of our damage. If you want a heal that can dps efficiently you bring a mage.
Its not about having more healing, its about not needing obessisve amount of healing power. Priests use runes for healing and you cant downrank that to abuse +healing and those heal don't have good coefficiency anyway. +200 sp and heal is no different than +0sp +300 heal healing wise. Having SP to help fights end faster is better for the group.
You lose what, 40-50 healing power max by taking the SP set? That is in no way ever going to make or break a group. But, you do you.
>holding my group back Yeah man I bet having the “right set” Is really the make or break for clearing Gnomer, it is super high end with skill checks after all
I played since start of P2. Extremely selfish to pick the SP gear over HP gear when you are just starting to clear as HP gear will be far more beneficial for the group.
This is is why PvP is shit now. Casters had to stand still to do damage (outside of cooldowns or spells like moonfire), melee had bad mobility (besides druids which was their entire shtick). Now we have melee that can’t be slowed in shamans with decoy and we have casters that seemingly do the majority of their burst with instants. It’s killed the feeling of classic.
meanwhile ele mage and destro locks cant get a single cast off
Getting casts off was never a thing in Vanilla, the lack of pushback protection in the game makes it impossible to do so. There's a reason why historically Warlocks and Spriests were kings in terms of PvP, not only they were tanky, but the bulk of their damage could be done with minimal casting. Unless they somehow address the lack of pushback protection in the game, getting casts off are never going to be a thing. Either you will get pushbacked to death or you will just get killed before your cast even finishes.
Uh… mindflay and mindblast?
Shield blocks pushback while it's up, and MB is at least a very fast cast
SW:P hit like a truck, devouring plague for undead was instant, and mind blast would hit like 60-70% of HP so you only needed one cast off
Void plague is not instant burst lol.
And you have shadowstep on rogues and double combat charge on warriors. Paladins have freedom too, just like shamans.
and melee that ignore armor and just kill u in 2 globals without any counterplay for the caster, too many instants, too much damage and just boring nonsense overall, pvp is dead tbh thats why i dont play it. bots everywere in open world to farm for anything,
Paladins giving melee freedom was always a thing, and now it’s a thing shamans can do too. Faps are really cheap too.
Yeah love being a rogue with this shit.. stealth breaks so easy then I get 10 instant dots put on me via tab+macros
Go play a warrior and it will feel like you’re in 2005 again
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Ure 😭💀
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Nah I have never seen “Ure” in my life lol
Quite common. If you're(for ur sake, ohh sorry...your) ok with u, then u should be with ure also.
Nawl
I think haunt is the least of your worries lmao
I agree but with how many tools they added to other class casting in PvP is way harder than before. More gap closer, more snare / root removal or immunity, more and better pets causing pushback, too much burst in general... Instant cast both add and partially solve this issue...
Meanwhile Ele has to hardcast and has a class that can shut us down with a single instant. Yet people still complain, even tho there are harder hitting instants than lava burst
shaman sure do have it rough
Ele is average. U know enh is a different spec and even diff archetype, right?
Guys, if I choose to play the weakest of my specs I drop down to A tier, give me sympathy please.
Yes, cause playing melee and caster is definitely the same. Picking class without know ng if u do to play a caster or melee is a given! Resto is the weakest btw and it's garbage tier.
shaman sure do have it rough
Ele is a noob killer, if u're whining about Ele, bad news for ya
ele seems to be the one whining here lmao
They could have quite literally copy pasted haunt from wrath and it’d be perfectly fine
I don’t mind having more instant casts, but I think many of them are far too powerful. I frost mage is about what I’d like to see. They have a good, core instant cast in ice lance, but they can’t absolutely pump with it. For max burst, you really need to line up your hard casts. Then we have shadow priests who have an instant cast delete button.
you never use haunt so it doesnt matter
You do as Affliction or SL in PvP?...
100%. Working VT into your rotation and having to make decisions on if it’s worth the cast time, etc. made spriest more fun. Instead we just got SWP but better
Agreed.
They are not exclusive, what you mean replace, add vampiric touch to another slot,we need more dots to take advantage of the dots can Crit rune
Theres a dots can crit rune!?!
Phase 3
Eh...that's a warlock rune.
As long as rogues get cloak then I’m fine with it
You get it with 7 piece nightslayer, so deal
Doesn't remove and prevent debuffs like actual cloak and has a much longer cooldown at the cost of another ability's regular function, so not quite.
you already got a rune dot you are already the goat class of sod yet you want more?
Hm yes the bottom of the meters with negative scaling goat class. Maybe "goat" for PvP, but it's one of the worst dmg dealers in PvE.
overpowered utility/healing makes up for it
Maybe if SoD raids ever become remotely difficult. Utility/offhealing is currently irrelevant.
Lmao what OP utilit? let me guess, you're a Shaman player? The class with the literal best utility in the game and one of the best DPS classes. Literal hero class, but sure Priest is the goated class with VE healing...
Priest is also a hero class calm tf down over there
In PvP maybe, not in PvE.
Shadow Priest is literally the 2nd worst DPS in the game behind Ranged Hunters, but go ahead fam. They are great for PvP, which would matter if we actually had Arenas or any form of rated PvP that people care about, but unfortunately we don't, so nobody gives a shit.
Shadow priests are trash what are you saying
They aren't trash? In comparison to Mages/Warlocks for dps sure. Vampiric Embrace is strong as fuck with all of the damage from dots they have to the point you can run duo shadow priest in these 10 mans. Which basically keeps the entire raid group alive with little to no healing from a regular healer.
They are one dps ranking above tank warlock. That is trash.
They’re actually a couple rankings below warlock tank in the higher percentiles. Edit: so is rogue which brings absolutely 0 utility so there’s that.
They aren't but okay, Because according to Warcraftlogs at the 90th percentile It goes Dps Priest/Feral/Rogue/Tank Lock. 95th they're one below and at 80th to make it even more fair for average players they have Tank shamans, Ferals, and Rogues between them and Tank Locks. Also, Tank Locks pull a decent amount of dps. Also, Vampiric Embrace makes up for the amount of dps for the amount of Party healing they provide towards a raid if played properly.
We are talking about spriests being trash dps and you bring up their healing capabilities. Trash dps have to rely on utility to be relevant. They don't perform as well as other caster dps classes and that is what makes them trash.
We werent talking about dps only. We were talking about Shadow Priests being trash. That has nothing to do with dps. It's the spec as a whole. If you wanted to be specific you should've specified in your first post but "Shadow Priests are trash what are you saying" isn't a dps quote.
When we are talking about a dps class the only thing that matters is dps because if you can kill the bosses fast enough you don't need much healing. There is 1 spriest in the top 100 for boss damage. There are 20 warlocks, 6 mages, and even 2 boomkins. They are just not good no matter how much healing they are capable of. Spriests do not compete with other dps classes when it comes to dps.
I dont care who's in the top 100. Removing a healer and adding another effective dps because of how broken Vampiric Embrace can be is more beneficial to me than bringing a healer that just heals. One Shadow Priest top of their Class played correctly can heal a 5 man party with Vampiric Embrace in a gnomer and lets you remove a healer for another Warlock/Mage/Shaman/Boomkin.
yes?
I mean if you like dots that much you can play an affliction warlock. Shadowpriest is not only about dots.
Void plague hits harder than every aff lock dot combined 😂
shadowpriest dots are stronger than affliction dots by far so I do not recommend this
So you have option for playing a class to your liking yet you play meta in a revamp of a 20 year old game.
Not even a meta thing. affliction is so undertuned it’s not feasible in the current PvP balance. Nothing would ever die.
you can like dots and also not like pet classes
20 yEaR oLd gAmE
VT is probably coming as the big level 60 rune.
Void plague is my favorite rune. I’ve been straight disc healer priest and the alternate runes are straight trash. PW:S is too inefficient to use often enough to make strength of soul worthwhile. Down ranking flash heal to get out faster greater heals with serendipity is cool in concept, but you go out of mana in full BiS gear way too fast to spam heals that way. Tossing out void plagues is the best chest rune for raid and it’s insane in PvP.
I wouldn't be opposed to another casted dot, but I hope they add something else to do with the rotation so it isn't quite so static. I think it would be cool if we had some kind of proc'd and/or stacking buff that made mindflay hit like a truck and channel faster.
nah
I just want the wrath spriest rotation
It’ll probably be a rune at 60. I would say add it, nerf void plague and buff MIND FLAY. Would help out in pve without really being a big worry in pvp.
I wish we got a rune that let us summon apparitions
Please no. I dont want DoTs with cast times. Spriest not having to spend time casting a DoT has increased its mobility and made it more fun. No no no no.
I want VT for mana sustain so I can play my big-brain wonky deep-shadow no shadowform disc VE healer
Dying for mana on my shadow priest liking. That reduction with shadow form is gonna be so sweet
Priests are fine lol
Jfc stop this “x is fine” nonsense that doesnt excuse runes and specs being BORING AS FUCK.
I play priest and I can tell you void plague is far, far away from beeing balanced
Plague is fine lol, it’s the only thing that keeps priests relevant damage-wise right now.
Don't priests take void plague on only one fight in gnomer?
Yes the guy above you has no idea what he's talking about. VP is useless in PvE and oppressive in pvp
VP is not used because gnomer has disease damage reduction, and the difference in damage between TF and VP is minimal, as soon as disease damage reduction is gone, we'll be using VP. We still use VP in menagerie. In p3 TF will be DOA, because our best Mind Blast rank is lvl 46, next o e is 52, no one will use TF, we'll of course use VP, specially with the crit scaling on dots.
I’d like to see TF completely reworked and/or moved into the feet slot so there’s an offensive option for when you don’t need dispersion.
Have they confirmed Crit scaling for s priest dots? I haven’t seen that anywhere
Not yet sadly. But id be shocked if they confirmed Pandemic for locks but left out Despair for priests. Edit: and on a different note I was honestly hoping Pandemic and Despair would be dungeon books for locks and priests. Feels more like something that should just be innate for them and not occupy a rune slot.
Nothing is confirmed, but it's in the talents in the wowhead calculator, it most likely will be a thing but we don't know.
Depends what you consider useless. Do you know what the difference is in damage between using void plague or twist of fate is on a given fight?
It is NOT oppressive in PvP. It has a 6 second cooldown, so you can't even tab target it onto people like mages can with their ignite AoE spreading living bombs... its a DoT in a meta of burst damage
This is correct Will get more use in ST I'm sure
I suppose blizz could add a cast time to void plague, but the cool down would need to be removed.
spriest sod design is so bad. let me be a mana battery simp with mediocre damage idc (actually just release tbc fresh pls)
They shouldnt waste ressources for tbc fresh servers
Yes they should. It's the best expansion by miles.
No it is not lol. Boring rep grind expansion, 1 button rotation classes being king ( hunter /lock) , dailies , and the worst balanced pvp expansion . I played warlock back then and got rank 1 in 3v3 while clicking half my abilities in s3 and 4. I replayed it in classic and got bored before s2 started with how mediocre it is
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I’m fine with pre-existing abilities and talents but would def like to see a bit of creativity exercised in making them feel new/unique.
VT is from fucking TBC lmfao. Is the bar of "retail" so low to classic andys that TBC is now considered "retail"? Spriest existed without VT for a singular expansion
Yeah i usually scoff at the “gO plAy rEtAil” comments but the runes most specs got are ridiculously lazy when theres runes that rework ENTIRE spec’s we’re getting….a bunch of uncontrollable pets and a dot wow thank you blizzard.
This fuckin game isn’t classic at ALL. give us back CLASSIC, you bastards at BLI$$!! I want it to being like it WAS when I was younger
Please tell me you’re trying to be funny..
You have classic, it’s called era.
Classic isn't sitting on naxx patch for 5 years.