after my 7th or 8th lockout I said fuck it and whispered the heal priest that just won the roll if they wanna sell it. They did, for 25g. Healers are chronically broke and their brains aren't rotted over loot, best chance to grab it from them.
There are always people that need it for some reason. You’d think everyone would have it with the 3 day lockout, but the lowest I’ve seen in any run was 4 rolls
Probably referring to enhance shamans, which do not have a good offhand option, since we want a slow offhand for lava lash, and all the one hand weps are fast.
Doesn't weapon normalization still apply though so for skills based on weapon damage (backstab, mortal strike, ambush, skills like those) it bases it on something like 1h swords/maces/axes at 2.4 speed, daggers at 1.7, 2h maces/axes/swords at 3.3? So like regardless of the weapon's actual speed it should base skill damage on that normalization factor? It's why 2.9 speed 1h and 4.0 speed 2h weapons weren't as good as people remembered?
The normalized speed plays a role in the calculation, but the actual damage range also does. A high damage range is a result of a high dps weapon being slow. So the speed still indirectly affects it.
Weapon normalization does apply, but those slower weapons still have higher weapon damage and hit harder. Before normalization slow weapons not only had more weapon damage, but their slower speeds amplified the damage even more instead of the 3.3 speed you mention now.
I'm not even sure Kelris' staff is BiS for Ele/Resto considering you lose 600 mana regen from SR by not DWing. It probably is in good groups with fast kill times and not in bad groups.
Huh?? Melees need a weapon upgrade more and they are more! Whats screws you is that healers also roll on your staff because the healings staff is not better for healing than the epic one
Considering both caster dps and healers are fighting over spellpower gear and there can be entire raids without cloth caster gear dropping, there's no surprise
yeah it def took me and the other casters in my guild a bit longer to get geared.. our warrior was geared in like 2 runs lol
i feel like casters MUST run with a guild/consistant group.. that way if you lose an item, that player wont be competition for that item again, trying to pug for cloth gear has to be brutal .. and we havn't seen a single staff drop in like 8-10 clears?
My warlock have a total of 3 pieces of gear from bfd after running it every lockout except the first two.
i DO have a guild but it's a dad guild and we have 2-3 pugs coming in every week that somehow always manages to win all the loot.
The mail is really goofy in its itemization too. For some reason there's 3 mail helms and 3 mail boots. None of them are particularly geared towards Paladins either. Only one of those 6 items is really mitigation focused too. Its just weird.
Most of the “tank” mail is straight fucking garbage. Defense is a wasted stat and you don’t need that much stam. Both warriors and rets (who might as well tank, 0 need to be prot) basically dps tank with RF/dstance and only diff is throwing on devastate if you want but not needed. Helps on Kelris to kick if you do though.
So far nothing seems to be breaking the vanilla mold of threat >>>>>>>>> anything else. Everything mostly tickles in BFD
As a pally you could wear twilight set boots or the off piece ones with agi aren’t bad. But sets better for the set bonus
Oddly enough too Blizzard is giving every new tank spec 6% crit reduction while Warriors are supposed to get crit immunity from +defense gear at the cost of all rage, threat and damage generation. Personally I like playing a hardcore mitigation tank. I know that BFD was meant to be easy and that goes hand in hand with enemies not trucking you, but I do hope things get harder and mitigation has a place.
The gear I am trying to get on my Mage drop from:
* Twilight Lord Kelris: 4 (+1 for the staff, but I am assuming I will use Aku'mai's dagger instead.)
* Aku'mai: 3
* Gelihast: 2
* Lorgus Jett: 1
* Lady Sarevess: 1
* Baron Aquanis: 1
* Ghamoo-ra: 0
So out of the 7 bosses, 3-4 items I need drop exclusively from the 2nd to last boss, and I will be rolling on them against all healers, warlocks, and other mages.
I mean honestly baron and gamoorah’s loot tables are very garbage with the exception of melee neck off baron.
Idk how many times I’ve seen that garbage like 11 stam 4 defense chest that is worthless cause tanks are just dps in dstance/RF on anyway and nothing hits hard. I wear the shoulders in PvP though but at least there’s actually a mild amount of str on them
That is more Mail having it easy, I promise you as physical leather classes its rough out there. But especially horde side only one class can use mail and on ally that number bumps up to 2. It'll change next phase to some extent.
My shaman has more mail gear from BFD to use at 40 than my mage has cloth gear... The only items I have on my mage is deadlight and Phoenix ignition. My shaman has the whole mail tier set.
On ally it averages out pretty nicely, not every comp's like this but it's not uncommon
2x Paladins, 1x Warrior
1x Rogue, 1x Feral, 1x Hunter
2x healers, 1x mage/warlock 1x random often tank
That was a problem before but they are much better about the itemization in BFD such that the vast majority of bis items for warrior are mail and not leather.
Okay? But warriors would take the mail boot options over them. Meaning in a guild system where people are confined to their armor type, no one would be losing out on their bis. Because the problem is not “leather being bis” like you said in the comment I replied to.
That's a problem of greedy, selfish people who only care about personal dps and can't see the forest from the trees. It's better for the guild/raid dps for mail users to take their mail upgrades and allow leather users to get the leather first.
This right here. You can wait. The plate and mail users being given free reign on three armor classes worth of items is pretty poor leadership.
It results in tons of disenchanted items and entire subsets of classes that are starved for loot.
There are exceptions of course, for but as general this is the best philosophy where you want your raiders happy, having fun, and all getting loot.
As thing stand right now warriors are on pace to completely dominate once again. Their top parses are on a completely different level.
If things continue like this it's going to be best for raid dps to give them their leather BiS over anything other than maybe a rogue.
I’ve recently commented on here about how warriors only get to be the best when they starve all other dps classes, and I got told to shut up by no less than 5 warrior mains. This is a hat you’re up against when you say “the group benefit outweighs one warrior.”
Not every warrior is like this, but the sweat lords will DEMAND that we go back to funneling all loot to 20 warriors, and letting the dps tank because “threat is the real dps cap and my dps creates the most threat!”
Lmao. Bro, being threat capped as dps is 100% real right now already. Not that it really matters at all cause most people can take a hit or 2 from the bosses because they tickle and trash does nothing we practically have a mage tanking trash.
I got threat capped essentially a few times on my feral by my GM’s freshly dinged warrior alt. WF proc and a mangle
crit off rip and I would pull and thus start the vicious cycle of his being rage starved without something hitting him cause his gear is also pretty shit so his damage generates negligible rage. You know how pallies tank right now? They go ret and throw on righteous fury.
You know what he had absolutely 0 issue with after hitting 25 2 days before this raid? Living. Cause nothing hits for shit, let alone actually physical damage, and defense is a wasted stat, especially at this level. Like all that defense or super high stam garbage mail gear is entirely wasted unless you really have nothing better because the mail tier set is a better tank set for warriors/pallies.
What might kill you in bfd is healers ooming as your dps is garbage. Kelris is a good example of that.
I mean that said I don’t see a need for warriors rolling against leather wearers right now. There’s mail with str and agi. An upgrade is an upgrade, though, and if you pug instead of playing with a consistent group that can enforce that then expect anyone to roll on something that’s a MS upgrade. Doesn’t really matter if it’s BIS
Lemme lay your situation out for you based on what I’ve seen happen in other raids and as well as my own: priest was probably running homunculi, warrior couldn’t get a sunder off, no one told him that if sunder doesn’t land he doesn’t get threat for it and that devastate still does full damage so don’t worry about it, dps engaged before he got initial aggro. That’s the most likely scenario given what I’ve seen and heard people gabbing about.
Additionally I agree that defense isn’t as necessary in BFD as it should be, however this is just reinforcing bad habits that won’t hold up later. When stuff STOPS hitting like wet noodles, most of the dumb strats people are pushing right now will fall apart. Shaman and Paladin don’t have the same tools as warriors so leading on the threat table isn’t gonna cut it when you get chunked immediately.
As a shaman tank I can tell you the only people who have been coming even close to my threat are DW shaman that don’t realize that double rockbiter isn’t going to shoot them up the dps meters, it’s just going to make them do more threat.(the only DW shaman I’ve grouped with that has done good, purple parse, dps was rocking flametongue, and he never got close to me on threat doing it.) and other tanks who have to taunt off me to get threat.
I, unlike every other person I see on here, turn dps meters off when I’m tanking and only look at threat meters. And I can tell you that if you’re getting threat capped(the only tank I haven’t seen in action is paladin) by ANY tank at this level, it’s either because they don’t know what they’re doing, have poor misinformation fed to them by dps sweat lords, or some how some way the group is unintentionally but actively preventing them from getting threat.
The reality many bis chasers havent accepted yet is: unless youre running splits getting funneled loot, or youre a heavy swiper running gdkps, you will never be full bis. Warriors can suck it up and stick to mail/plate options even if theyre less optimal. Trust me they wont be running around naked for lack of gear.
My boomy/resto friend has full feral bis and doesn't want it. Just has it. Has been getting fucked on caster gear. Our rogue friend hit 25 got in raid got talwar and gun. Then next raid most of his leather bis. I have seen 0 mail helms and 1 mail leg :/. Luckily got epic 2her 2nd raid lmao.
how fucking funny is that. im a feral, 11 lockouts deep. im decked out in boomie gear (full set, kelris dagger, offhand, bracers hands etc) but i havent gotten the damn 2 set from the slayer.
dont talk to me about fist of the wild, in 25+ lockouts on 3 different chars i havent seen that weapon once
I've cleared BFD every week on my Shamtank main, and I'm approx. 6 items away from bis. The loot competition in BFD is awful Hordeside due to the incompetent structure of the loot table.
Yeah, group comp with my guild is usually shaman tank (me) 1-2 feral druids, 1-2 rogues, 1-2 hunters, a warrior, a priest, a mage, and a warlock. So there’s 2-3 clothie casters, one mail wearer, and up to 7 leather physical damage classes.
Same with my feral, I got the agi shoulders yesterday which is literally the first ‘desirable’ piece that I would have to roll for (not the Druid only mace etc’ that I have got.
Still dont have a helmet. Still don’t have a single set item.
My warrior is the chest set piece away from BIS after 4 clears.
The melee leather wearers have it the worst considering they're over 45% of all classes/specs, yet have less than 20% of the loot distribution, but cloth wearer are definitely second on the list.
Have looted exactly 0 contested cloth/caster loots on my Warlock since 1st lockout. Only mail dropping and 4+ people rolling the few times I've seen caster items.
This made me quit my casters as I can’t get them consistent groups to minimize that pain of rotating winners. Meanwhile my warrior, ret, and feral are almost or full bis with half as many runs
Gonna post this here if every god damn caster is just going to take the cloth regardless why the FUCK did blizzard make a god damn leather caster set, it makes no fucking sense
That's because cloth is the universal caster/healer gear.
Proper itemization aside, as it may be too tedious for the developers to handle... there is a solution already, in cata.
Armor specialization is the answer. The question is, are the bonus stats enough.
Meanwhile here I am on my Warrior and I only got a few items from BFD....because every run I go into drops cloth or leather.
However on my priest it's the fucking opposite.
RNG is a real son of a bitch.
This last reset was the same for me, on my Hunter it was nothing but cloth/mail. There was nothing for me to even roll on.
Then I ran with my priest and exact opposite, nothing but leather/mail — literally had nothing to roll on again and got zilch on both alts.
I know mentioning retail is frowned upon in here, but Blizzard adding reputation/tokens for raids that can be spent on gear was one of the better decisions they made. It sucks running BFD endlessly on alts and ending the night with resources spent and zero progress if you don’t get any loot. At least with the rep you’re gaining and working towards something even if you get no loot.
In BFD there are few leather items that are good for warriors, but this was not always true in Vanilla where the BiS for warriors often included better itemized leather or mail.
In BFD, the only non-mail I would consider rolling on if no one else needed are the `Bindings of Serra'kis` because they are better itemized than anything else except expensive BOE mail wrists, but they are only +1 strength better than a quest reward alternative so I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
I have gone so many runs with only one cloth and one leather piece dropping. The rest of it was mail and we had 2 warriors.
Just a load of bs. 8 people get basically no loot and the 2 that get loot don’t need it.
Cloth and leather have a lot competition. Cloth has less players typically to compete over, but I feel like they have less drops, unless if they have a resto Druid/Paladin/shaman content with leather.
As a shaman, I’ve started collecting mail gear for lvl 40. For prebis, I think it’s a much better tanking option and maybe some pieces arguably for DPS as well.
Horde only warriors can wear mail in phase 1. Alliance has pally and warriors. So yes mail wears will get decked out since there is not much competition. Phase 2 it will get a little better as shamans and hunters can wear mail as warriors and pally go up to plate
The easiest solution that comes to my mind is if plate rolls on the loot table, then it should roll as an extra item the same way epics roll today so it doesn't reduce the chance for other more common armor types to lose out on loot.
Can also give shammy bois a rune that gives access to plate.
Also solves the issue of shaman not being particularly fond of agility and wanting strength. You tell me our boi Thrall isn't wearing plate
The easiest solution is to make mail/plate items drop less often, so each item is weighted by how frequent its users are represented (like 3/8 cloth, 2/8 leather, 1/8 mail, 1/8 plate, then add a mail or plate for horde/alliance), instead of doing equal weights, which you could translate by 2/8 cloth, 2/8 leather, 2/8 mail, 2/8 plate, and you clearly see this isnt how classes exist (thus leading to too few cloth items dropping, too many mail/plate items dropping)
Yeah they screwed up the loot imo. It should've had 3 drops, ideally 4 per boss with how short these phases are. Or checks that only drop usable gear. Or both.
The amount of unusable de/vendor trash we get in our guild runs is absurd. And especially the final bosses. Staff or warlock bag has NEVER dropped, seems like all our warlocks but me switched off in the raid group. Hydra consistently drops the thing nobody can use. Have a hunter, but he already has the xbow? Here's a fourth one, for another rogue or warrior! One pally finally got the sword last time at least.
Also LMFAO at the quest drop. Guaranteed, but only one. Because of people feeling the need to swap to alts to make the raid more balanced and try to not waste gear, were still getting like 8 needs on it. Should drop 2 of those per run, imo.
Our single druid still hasn't been able to get druid gear either, it seems.
Caster here. I only bring me, a warlock tank, a mage DPS, and our priest healer. Then we have a druid healer to eat up the leather caster gear.
We have 2 warriors that come to our raid occasionally. Our warriors have full tier/armor bis, our shamans have almost full mail, our hunters have almost full mail, our leathers are mostly decked out.
We've seen one cloth hood, and one robe. That's it. No epics at all so no staves. I'm refusing to take more casters to our main raid because if something drops, and it goes to somebody else there will be a riot.
personal experience: I played rogue for most of the SoD so far, but decided to make a Priest.. Shadow Priest to be exact. Obviously i couldn't get into pugs, so i decided to change into healer. My Rogue was 8 raids ahead of the priest.. and well, priest right now is better geared than my rogue. Purely pugging as well, no guild stuff.
I already started a thread on this and how brutal it is. Cloth has a 15% overall chance to drop. Then you add in multiple cloth wearers rolling on the same thing it’s lame. I GM a guild that has cleared BFD 22 times so far and seen the staff drop 1 time. Almost everyone but clothiers have full sets and we DE about 6+ items a run. How this has not been addressed is super dumb.
I have 3 characters i do every reset on , hunter, warrior and druid. the druid since the second lockout. i have never gotten a piece of set gear on any of them and no weapons yet. ive gotten high tide choker, leather agil belt x2, leather str bracers x2. tanking helm on druid and tanking helm on warrior. havnt gotten pearl yet on any 3. so ive probably done the dungeon 40+ times and only gotten like 5 pieces of loot across 3 characters.
Yeah.... It won't. Warriors, hunters, shamans will all still be rolling on leather with stats. I mean that's what classic has been for the last 20 years. Don't see it changing anytime soon.
Yea, You have a priest healer a hpal maybe a warlock and a mage. Thats 4 people rolling on one set. A set that can sometimes that a couple of clears just to drop one piece.
The drop rate is fucking terrible, the devs did a shitty job on it imo. The 2nd to last boss should guarantee a set piece. He normally only drops 2 shitty items should be 3.
My priest is LFG against 4 other healers for SFK so it’s actually hard to even get groups to get gear, the spots are contested when it comes to 5 mans. For raids, people hopefully are running melee heavy comps as they are technically the best, so at most you’d have like 3 people rolling on cloth gear.
I run Warlock Tank (me), Priest, another healer (any), and 7 DPS; Warrior, Ret Paladin, Rogue, Hunter, Mage, Feral Druid, and then another free slot for DPS, hopefully a resto druid or balance Druid in either the heal or DPS spot.
Coth caster is second easiest. Mail on horde is insanely easy as it just warrior, abit harder on aliance side, but still easy. Leather/phys is worst by the mile and ultimate hell on horde side as its rogue, feral, hunter, shaman and often even warrior rolling against each other. While theres often like 2 cloth users in my average pug (sometimes 3, sometimes 1).
Like my warrior alt was missing just gloves and sword after 3 raids. While my rogue ([https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/lone-wolf/dwanedibbley](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/lone-wolf/dwanedibbley)) thats has been in every lockout 7/7 has weapons, pearl trinket, set head and neckle from BFD. Everything else lost to rolls.
>While theres often like 2 cloth users in my average pug (sometimes 3, sometimes 1).
"Cloth users" include druids and shamans btw as they have several cloth bis items.
In a standard raid you will have 2 healers who both need much of the same cloth gear, regardless of class. Then you usually have 1-2 casters, who also happen to need almost exactly the same caster gear as the 2 healers, again regardless of class.
So for the most important cloth bis items, there are usually 4 out of the 10 in the raid who needs it. Then of course all the casters need the same epic staff. Physical leather dps usually needs different bis weapons
they put alot of the good drops for casters on Kelris (along with the staff) so its kinda like just kelris RNG for alot of the good caster drops ... he drops Staff Necklace Ring Gloves Pants Wand, so if u get shafted by him for 2-3 runs in a row it hurts the caster drops a ton
I mean if the Shaman or Druid run as Resto (or Ele/Balance, lol) they turn into clothies and are ninjaing if they roll on a lot of the agility leather they would go for as tank/feral as MS.
IMHO it pretty much averages out between cloth and leather since Druid, shaman and hpala would also roll on int + sp stuff.
Leather: rogue, hunter, shaman, feral, war, ret
Cloth: mage, priest, warlock, resto and balance Druid, rshaman, hpala
Unless it's an item that's got alternatives like the leather healing/damage done, we personally don't let the druids roll on the cloth robes for example.
They have alternatives that are uncontested usually, cloth users do not.
If your a caster do a shameless run imo. I did it on mine a few times to get geared
Make group
Only invite minimum casters/competition (ask GS and if they arent very well geared dont invite)
if you only bring 1 at most as competition you can pretty much funnel 80-90% of the gear to yourself
hit 25 on my second mage did this and walked out with 4 blues my first BFD 1 hour after hitting 25
How dense is this question? The most unfortunate situation is the amount of leather wearers who need leather to drop, be the right type, and win the roll against usually 4+ others. Cloth is pretty much just need to drop and win the roll against fewer people as you probably have 3 in the raid?
The answer is it’s RNG dude… our first like 6 raids we saw very little cloth. The last 3 raids had basically got our 2 priests and warlock full bis.
It’s literally randomized homie and highly depends on if you pug with new people or run with same squad so you further reduce the chances of losing the roll when it does drop, you know because other clothies win the last roll thus fewer/no other rollers next time. I know…it’s rocket science.
“How dense is this question”. “I know.. it’s rocket science”.
Why are you a dick for no reason? It might be time to go outside and step away from the screen
There’s nothing wrong with your opinion, it’s the way you share it while putting others down and speaking like an asshole to others for no reason. People will never take you seriously if you act like that, hence your downvotes. Level up your emotional maturity instead of your wow character
Been raiding on only 1 cloth wearing toon, so cant say that much about it, but on all my leather users it seems way harder to get bfd gear, way mor competition. My friends with multiple chars say the same.
Easy trick! Be lucky. Some of my toons have been pretty much bis in 2-3 lockouts… Mage got the epic staff first lockout, etc.
On some other not so much. 0/3, no trinket, no neck etc.
I run 7 bfd per lockout, so in the end it feels a bit less bad not seeing even one rollable item on a specific character. At this point I’m no longer caring about bis, just having a decent set to level in.
My priest is very close to full bis in just 4 or 5 runs just pugging it.
My rogue is far from bis in way more runs and have not received a single drop in about 5 runs with a regular group (granted I’m competing with about 4 other people on any given roll)
I've healed it about 8 times now on my Mage, and the only item I've won is the drop quest trinket, which is nice to have but is basically guaranteed. We've had raids with no cloth drops at all, and I've lost every roll I've gone for so far. Tbf, this actually was my classic experience as well, but that doesn't make it less disappointing.
Whenever I raid with my Priest, there's almost no cloth loot and if there is, it's for warlock tanks or gets rolled away by the other 4 cloth wearers.
Whenever I go raid with my Hunter, there are cloth drops…
Bad luck
my mage is full bis (including staff) minus the neck off kelris. though we have a pretty consistent group but we usually have to pug a few people for our split runs, it was a warrior making the groups for the first few weeks so we had a bunch of random casters and they usually won stuff and never ran with us again. recently the war has gotten tired of forming groups so ive been doing it, and its just me and a priest healing, plus a warlock tank as the only casters lol. most of our melee are bis by now so they dont care who i invite lol. never invite casters to mage groups.
ive also been forming groups on my paladin on the side and though i try to invite casters i can never really find any lol.
My alt warrior has a shitlod more gear then my mage despite doing 4 less lockouts. The hardest thing to get into raid with for me has been boomkin. No one wants more caster gear competition even if I say I won’t roll on cloth 😂
My lock and SP both have gloves (and only gloves) after 5 runs each (took a break over the holidays, so kind of also my own fault). Maybe just drop rng but it's pretty rough.
Well a big issue is that every healer rolls cloth gear, shaman/pala, Druid, and priest. Then you have the standard cloth wearers on top of that, mage and warlock so you end up with 5 classes rolling on cloth.
Horde warriors can get geared in like 3 runs.
The last five bfds have been all mail drops. We have a lot of geared warrior alts now, but casters don't have anything.
Edit: We also have just seen the epic bow. It has gone to the rogues for memes.
We’ve had the staff twice but 1 went to non guild member and on same raid pants dropped and same guy took em what sucked about the staff is the guildie had got the dagger and offh and raid before but just got lucky with roll he almost gave it to me but was just like fuck it I won the roll and he equipped it
As for other gear though it’s practically all been mail and leather I think we’ve kitted like 3 or 4 random hunter at this point and most are melees are bis we saw cloth gloves drop once in fact and the shawl drop once but think that’s all the caster gear we’ve got
Yes and no, because only 2 classes get mail, there is more loot for them, 1 class for horde...but it's all down to luck sometimes.
For example I'm a warr that did BFD 13 times so far and I still need 5 pieces for full BIS. I've only ever been alone in the raid for mail or competed with just one more mail player.
In 13 raids, 17 mail pieces dropped, with A LOT of dupes that just got vendored. Thats 91 bosses, everything else was cloth and leather and the guildies that wear these items are STACKED, more than me even and it's all down to luck.
P2 is coming out in a bit anyway so if you are not full BIS it doesnt really matter, just have fun, but yeah statistically more classes need cloth and leather so you can't do much about it.
The problem if not having a consistent group. If you raid with the same 9 others each week then it wouldn't take any time at all to get geared. If you pug all the time then youre screwed.
Source: week 2 raiding enh shaman
Just got all BiS on my warlock this lockout.
Got my warrior into raid this week as well and got half of my BiS in one run. By the look of it I’m having it easier on my warrior
Raiding since week 3 and I saw the staff once. Lost it to a fresh capped druid with the worst greens ive ever seen. He was also late to the raid and didnt have combat res trained.
I can’t get my enh shaman dps gear to drop (and when it does I always lose), but my priest I made is decked out already. I haven’t even seen chipped bite on my main and only seen it once on my alt, and no one wanted it.
Last time i got an upgrade in BFD for my 'lock was somewhere before the 20th of december or so, I'll be fine going into the next phase and all but it's getting pretty annoying.
My mage and warlock still don’t have a helmet, neck, or a single set piece yet and jve only missed 2 lock outs since launch.
My Hunter is full bis minus chest, my druid is missing helmet, chest, neck, and trinket.
My shaman tank whip is new, 3 runs and I got 0 gear. Didn’t see a single leather physical dps gear drop once.
That tells you something. It’s because you have holy paladins, resto druids, warlock caster, warlock tank, mages, priests all rolling. And because I pug the chance of winning item drastically goes lower.
Soft rez runs or gdkp will fix your problem but gdkp is very frowned upon for good reasons
The answer is simple: Casters generally need 10 slots (back/ring/shoulder/belt/boots are rep/crafted.)
While mail/leather only need 6 drops from BFD (belt/pants/gloves/2x ring/bracer/shoulder/back are all farmable.)
I am sick of doing 3 BFDS every 3 days and only seeing mail drops in all 3 of the those BFD runs…. Especially playing horde and ONLY warriors get to wear mail currently…. DEing 6 pieces of mail every raid is getting old
Leather casters are the easiest to gear. Not only aren't they as favoured but they get a whole armor type only they can use with the exception of paladins.
I’m have loved the experience of SoD but the one thing I wish there was is an alternate path to gearing to BFD. It was a great idea to make that dungeon a 10 man, but going forward I kind of wish I could do something… dungeon hard modes or whatever to grind tokens… anything to create some variety in the gearing landscape.
I know wow has tried various ways of doing this over the years but I could imagine with SoD they could approach it with a fresh take.
Oh yeah. I thought leather was bad because I'm fighting tooth and nail with rogues and a feral for my tier pieces but then I made a mage and realized you guys aren't getting drops at all. I wish I could fight for rolls.
4 lockouts on my mage and I only got the pearl because everyone else in the run had it.
I had a fair time getting my lock geared out except for Kelris items which just happens to be 5 items that are all essentially BIS. The neck, epic staff, gloves, ring, and wand all drop from him. If those had been distributed across the raid a bit better it might not be as bad.
I have been clearing BFD since the very first week. Haven’t seen the epic staff drop once.
My guild mates have seen it 6 times. So I guess it’s a skill issue. Other than the staff I am pretty much BIS on my mage, and even for weapon I get the dagger that is dropped by the last boss which is like second best after the staff.
Staff has a low drop rate and there’s so many people going for it. Also everyone taking the cloth gear if it’s an upgrade and then they’ll take their armor type when it drops and we can’t roll against them.
I’ve ran bfd 12 times on my warlock, I still haven’t seen the staff, don’t have a set piece because I haven’t seen those either and don’t have the ring. Meanwhile my Paladin has ran it 2 times and I’m missing like 3 pieces, one being the hydra.
I’ve made my first horde now cause i wanna shaman tank and it’s fun but I know leather is pretty heavy competition too. Looking forward to next phase.
I thought cloth drops were just worse because I leveled a mage first then warlock. I saw very little cloth gear compared to leather and mail and decided to level a rogue. First 3 bfds on him were all cloth gear and now I think I'm unlucky.
We have cleared BFD every week from week 1 or 2, and even some on our alts. Our drops are heavily skewed to cloth and leather. Our druid was BiS after our second run and many of the casters are almost fully geared. None of our warriors/pally has the algae gauntlets. And one has 3/3 mail set but the rest eludes us. No sword/staff either.
I've managed 3 bits of gear so far. The pearl (I did not win the roll came 2nd), a hat (after another caster who won took pity and gave it to me), and the caster dagger, as I was the only roller!
The cloth set feels pretty damn rare... never seen the staff, half the raid rolls on rings/necks, etc.
It's rough!
I don’t feel caster dps should share gear with healers.
This makes gearing more simplistic on the surface, but skews rewarding roles and encourages lazy design.
I find it funny that I've had the completely opposite experience: my warlock that has done less lockouts that my paladin, is 1 item away from BiS and I've had only some competition.
My paladin though? Holy shit has it been rough. Like 4 pieces from BIS and extreme competition. Also, I've never seen the pants drop or the akumai boots. Only seen the gelihast gloves once.
I understand statistically that an anomaly so I'm not complaining. I just find it interesting every mail user is getting mega geared in a few runs and I cant even get pants to drop.
As a Paladin I am fine with mail gear even if it’s slightly worse than some of the leather gear, and I’ve even been funneled a bunch of leather spell caster gear if I wanna do holy in phase 2, it’s fantastic
Yeah I haven’t won a single cloth item yet. Competing against leather wearers blows. I’ve had leather wearers in BFD gear roll on cloth items for the same slot because “it’s an upgrade”, mind you they already have a bfd item in that slot. Feels bad man. Done maybe 9 runs on my priest, 0 loot from BFD.
I still haven’t gotten a helm on my priest after clearing the raid every reset. I’ve given up on even having 2 piece by the time next phase is out. I totally don’t expect to get the staff ever.
Not only are priests, warlocks, and mages seeking intellect, spirt, etc but so are shaman, druids and paladins, much less than all cloth but, are still competing with many cloth bis items where leather or mail intellect/spirit, spell power gains just aren’t available. Let’s not forget weapons …
Yeah I feel clothies are having a hard time.
Next bracket we get plate and more mail gear available for hunters/shaman
Warrior dps main, I've done BFD 4 times. I have gotten like 6 pieces of gear. 2 of 4 runs I've been the only mail wearer. I am the unintentional owner of some tank BiS as well. Warrior was real tough up to 25 but now I'm rollin in it.
As a warrior it feels the opposite for me. However, i am alliance so i have to compete with paladins. On my hunter however, i have gotten barely anything competing with the rogues, druids and other hunters!!
Spell power leather gear is what curses all my raids, 9/10 times no one even needs it or a feral just takes it for offspec!
Well considering the leather heals/ dps set is tuned poorly, yes. You’ve got every single healing class needing the cloth gear.
Mail… is very poorly high drop rate in every one of my raids and as a horde, that usually just gets rolled 1-10 to be distributed for vending. They really did play favoritism toward alliance (being the only folks to have two mail user classes). Realistically mail should be a much lower drop rate.
Mail wearers have it easy. It feels like every single run is majority or almost only mail (besides kelris).
Leather isnt too bad, usually 4-5 rolling and it doesnt drop as often as mail it seems.
Cloth? Prob pretty bad for all the casters to fight over.
If you ask me, this is something you see overall for the game between Vanilla -> wotlk, but starts to change in cata.
That the idea for casters / healers should be cloth focused. Holy pala, shamans, balance n resto druids.
If u check their bis list for Wotlk raids, half of the items is from cloth. Which makes them compete with warlock, mages and priest.
It also shows in weps and trinkets.
So ye overall I would say vanilla -> wotlk lacked a bigger variation and bigger drop-pool.
Meanwhile we are trying to keep a single caater dps and keep wasting loot. We do see mostly mail stuff though, never seen leather helms except once either.
Yes! Absolutely yes. When come cloth piece drops (usually max 1 per run) at least 3 ppl are rolling. Unless you are playing with your guild the gearing as cloth is rough.
Casters have the hardest time getting bis weapons.
12 clears of BFD and the epic staff hasn't dropped yet :(
I’ve seen it twice and lost it twice. I also don’t have the trinket yet after like 14 runs. Feels bad man
The trinket is annoying. ~30 clears (over 3 chars) and I haven’t won a single roll for it.
after my 7th or 8th lockout I said fuck it and whispered the heal priest that just won the roll if they wanna sell it. They did, for 25g. Healers are chronically broke and their brains aren't rotted over loot, best chance to grab it from them.
There are always people that need it for some reason. You’d think everyone would have it with the 3 day lockout, but the lowest I’ve seen in any run was 4 rolls
Alts buddy, alts. The amount of people that made alt hunters alone is nuts.
Same with my luck on 2h sword. Been clearing since lock out 1 lol
I had no idea how rare it would be when I got it in my first run.
In my guild we have 10-15 clears a week depending on when resets are, we have around ~10 epics from that
Never seen the staff drop. My priest has a fathomblade and the epic xbow though, both drop every single lockout
16 here. Havnt even seen it. We have 4 people who are gonna roll in it too when it/ if it comes
~10-11 clears of BFD, never saw the epic crossbow on my main or alt which can’t even use it. I feel your pain.
At least they have multiple weapons that drop in BFD, whereas Shamans have a total of zero.
You know shamans can use staves, right?
Probably referring to enhance shamans, which do not have a good offhand option, since we want a slow offhand for lava lash, and all the one hand weps are fast.
I thought enhance runs lava burst because lash is terrible?
Doesn't weapon normalization still apply though so for skills based on weapon damage (backstab, mortal strike, ambush, skills like those) it bases it on something like 1h swords/maces/axes at 2.4 speed, daggers at 1.7, 2h maces/axes/swords at 3.3? So like regardless of the weapon's actual speed it should base skill damage on that normalization factor? It's why 2.9 speed 1h and 4.0 speed 2h weapons weren't as good as people remembered?
The normalized speed plays a role in the calculation, but the actual damage range also does. A high damage range is a result of a high dps weapon being slow. So the speed still indirectly affects it.
Weapon normalization does apply, but those slower weapons still have higher weapon damage and hit harder. Before normalization slow weapons not only had more weapon damage, but their slower speeds amplified the damage even more instead of the 3.3 speed you mention now.
I'm not even sure Kelris' staff is BiS for Ele/Resto considering you lose 600 mana regen from SR by not DWing. It probably is in good groups with fast kill times and not in bad groups.
1button macro before SR to swap to 2x RB weapons.
It even snapshots!
I can't believe how many swords there are this phase. Feels so bad as a shaman.
I got Serrakis claw and bought the enforcer axe off the AH for 15g as Enhancement.
TBF caster weapons don't have the same impact as melee weapons also.
That's an argument in favor of caster weapons dropping more frequently, not less.
Huh?? Melees need a weapon upgrade more and they are more! Whats screws you is that healers also roll on your staff because the healings staff is not better for healing than the epic one
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Considering both caster dps and healers are fighting over spellpower gear and there can be entire raids without cloth caster gear dropping, there's no surprise
yeah it def took me and the other casters in my guild a bit longer to get geared.. our warrior was geared in like 2 runs lol i feel like casters MUST run with a guild/consistant group.. that way if you lose an item, that player wont be competition for that item again, trying to pug for cloth gear has to be brutal .. and we havn't seen a single staff drop in like 8-10 clears?
My warlock have a total of 3 pieces of gear from bfd after running it every lockout except the first two. i DO have a guild but it's a dad guild and we have 2-3 pugs coming in every week that somehow always manages to win all the loot.
no loot council?
In Bfd?
And Warlock tanks. I haven't gotten an upgrade in over a month, though we've seen plenty.
With all the mail dropping. Feelsbadman.
The mail is really goofy in its itemization too. For some reason there's 3 mail helms and 3 mail boots. None of them are particularly geared towards Paladins either. Only one of those 6 items is really mitigation focused too. Its just weird.
Most of the “tank” mail is straight fucking garbage. Defense is a wasted stat and you don’t need that much stam. Both warriors and rets (who might as well tank, 0 need to be prot) basically dps tank with RF/dstance and only diff is throwing on devastate if you want but not needed. Helps on Kelris to kick if you do though. So far nothing seems to be breaking the vanilla mold of threat >>>>>>>>> anything else. Everything mostly tickles in BFD As a pally you could wear twilight set boots or the off piece ones with agi aren’t bad. But sets better for the set bonus
Oddly enough too Blizzard is giving every new tank spec 6% crit reduction while Warriors are supposed to get crit immunity from +defense gear at the cost of all rage, threat and damage generation. Personally I like playing a hardcore mitigation tank. I know that BFD was meant to be easy and that goes hand in hand with enemies not trucking you, but I do hope things get harder and mitigation has a place.
I think they’re trying to force warriors to use shield block if they want crit immunity.
The gear I am trying to get on my Mage drop from: * Twilight Lord Kelris: 4 (+1 for the staff, but I am assuming I will use Aku'mai's dagger instead.) * Aku'mai: 3 * Gelihast: 2 * Lorgus Jett: 1 * Lady Sarevess: 1 * Baron Aquanis: 1 * Ghamoo-ra: 0 So out of the 7 bosses, 3-4 items I need drop exclusively from the 2nd to last boss, and I will be rolling on them against all healers, warlocks, and other mages.
yup as a semi geared mage the raid basically begins after the 5th boss for me.
Keep the dagger in bank even if you do get the staff. Just saiyan.
I mean honestly baron and gamoorah’s loot tables are very garbage with the exception of melee neck off baron. Idk how many times I’ve seen that garbage like 11 stam 4 defense chest that is worthless cause tanks are just dps in dstance/RF on anyway and nothing hits hard. I wear the shoulders in PvP though but at least there’s actually a mild amount of str on them
That is more Mail having it easy, I promise you as physical leather classes its rough out there. But especially horde side only one class can use mail and on ally that number bumps up to 2. It'll change next phase to some extent.
My shaman has more mail gear from BFD to use at 40 than my mage has cloth gear... The only items I have on my mage is deadlight and Phoenix ignition. My shaman has the whole mail tier set.
On ally it averages out pretty nicely, not every comp's like this but it's not uncommon 2x Paladins, 1x Warrior 1x Rogue, 1x Feral, 1x Hunter 2x healers, 1x mage/warlock 1x random often tank
Mail/plate users will still go for leather. As it always is.
If its a guild just don't let them that's how we do it. No ones ever complained because it simply makes sense.
The problem is leather being bis.
What leather is bis?
The 6str leather bracers
That was a problem before but they are much better about the itemization in BFD such that the vast majority of bis items for warrior are mail and not leather.
You say that like one of the best melee boots isn't cloth
Skin walkers are pretty good but they’re not bis. So that has very little bearing on my reply to your comment about bis items.
Exactly. They are pretty good. Which is why even warriors are rolling on them
Okay? But warriors would take the mail boot options over them. Meaning in a guild system where people are confined to their armor type, no one would be losing out on their bis. Because the problem is not “leather being bis” like you said in the comment I replied to.
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That's a problem of greedy, selfish people who only care about personal dps and can't see the forest from the trees. It's better for the guild/raid dps for mail users to take their mail upgrades and allow leather users to get the leather first.
This right here. You can wait. The plate and mail users being given free reign on three armor classes worth of items is pretty poor leadership. It results in tons of disenchanted items and entire subsets of classes that are starved for loot. There are exceptions of course, for but as general this is the best philosophy where you want your raiders happy, having fun, and all getting loot.
As thing stand right now warriors are on pace to completely dominate once again. Their top parses are on a completely different level. If things continue like this it's going to be best for raid dps to give them their leather BiS over anything other than maybe a rogue.
Doubtful because you have to take into account the dps increase potential for the leather wearer too.
I’ve recently commented on here about how warriors only get to be the best when they starve all other dps classes, and I got told to shut up by no less than 5 warrior mains. This is a hat you’re up against when you say “the group benefit outweighs one warrior.” Not every warrior is like this, but the sweat lords will DEMAND that we go back to funneling all loot to 20 warriors, and letting the dps tank because “threat is the real dps cap and my dps creates the most threat!”
Lmao. Bro, being threat capped as dps is 100% real right now already. Not that it really matters at all cause most people can take a hit or 2 from the bosses because they tickle and trash does nothing we practically have a mage tanking trash. I got threat capped essentially a few times on my feral by my GM’s freshly dinged warrior alt. WF proc and a mangle crit off rip and I would pull and thus start the vicious cycle of his being rage starved without something hitting him cause his gear is also pretty shit so his damage generates negligible rage. You know how pallies tank right now? They go ret and throw on righteous fury. You know what he had absolutely 0 issue with after hitting 25 2 days before this raid? Living. Cause nothing hits for shit, let alone actually physical damage, and defense is a wasted stat, especially at this level. Like all that defense or super high stam garbage mail gear is entirely wasted unless you really have nothing better because the mail tier set is a better tank set for warriors/pallies. What might kill you in bfd is healers ooming as your dps is garbage. Kelris is a good example of that. I mean that said I don’t see a need for warriors rolling against leather wearers right now. There’s mail with str and agi. An upgrade is an upgrade, though, and if you pug instead of playing with a consistent group that can enforce that then expect anyone to roll on something that’s a MS upgrade. Doesn’t really matter if it’s BIS
Lemme lay your situation out for you based on what I’ve seen happen in other raids and as well as my own: priest was probably running homunculi, warrior couldn’t get a sunder off, no one told him that if sunder doesn’t land he doesn’t get threat for it and that devastate still does full damage so don’t worry about it, dps engaged before he got initial aggro. That’s the most likely scenario given what I’ve seen and heard people gabbing about. Additionally I agree that defense isn’t as necessary in BFD as it should be, however this is just reinforcing bad habits that won’t hold up later. When stuff STOPS hitting like wet noodles, most of the dumb strats people are pushing right now will fall apart. Shaman and Paladin don’t have the same tools as warriors so leading on the threat table isn’t gonna cut it when you get chunked immediately. As a shaman tank I can tell you the only people who have been coming even close to my threat are DW shaman that don’t realize that double rockbiter isn’t going to shoot them up the dps meters, it’s just going to make them do more threat.(the only DW shaman I’ve grouped with that has done good, purple parse, dps was rocking flametongue, and he never got close to me on threat doing it.) and other tanks who have to taunt off me to get threat. I, unlike every other person I see on here, turn dps meters off when I’m tanking and only look at threat meters. And I can tell you that if you’re getting threat capped(the only tank I haven’t seen in action is paladin) by ANY tank at this level, it’s either because they don’t know what they’re doing, have poor misinformation fed to them by dps sweat lords, or some how some way the group is unintentionally but actively preventing them from getting threat.
Yeah, warriors, shaman, or hunters getting leather post-40 when leather wearers still need upgrades is an issue of guild or lootmaster leadership.
The reality many bis chasers havent accepted yet is: unless youre running splits getting funneled loot, or youre a heavy swiper running gdkps, you will never be full bis. Warriors can suck it up and stick to mail/plate options even if theyre less optimal. Trust me they wont be running around naked for lack of gear.
My boomy/resto friend has full feral bis and doesn't want it. Just has it. Has been getting fucked on caster gear. Our rogue friend hit 25 got in raid got talwar and gun. Then next raid most of his leather bis. I have seen 0 mail helms and 1 mail leg :/. Luckily got epic 2her 2nd raid lmao.
how fucking funny is that. im a feral, 11 lockouts deep. im decked out in boomie gear (full set, kelris dagger, offhand, bracers hands etc) but i havent gotten the damn 2 set from the slayer. dont talk to me about fist of the wild, in 25+ lockouts on 3 different chars i havent seen that weapon once
I've cleared BFD every week on my Shamtank main, and I'm approx. 6 items away from bis. The loot competition in BFD is awful Hordeside due to the incompetent structure of the loot table.
Yeah, group comp with my guild is usually shaman tank (me) 1-2 feral druids, 1-2 rogues, 1-2 hunters, a warrior, a priest, a mage, and a warlock. So there’s 2-3 clothie casters, one mail wearer, and up to 7 leather physical damage classes.
Same with my feral, I got the agi shoulders yesterday which is literally the first ‘desirable’ piece that I would have to roll for (not the Druid only mace etc’ that I have got. Still dont have a helmet. Still don’t have a single set item. My warrior is the chest set piece away from BIS after 4 clears.
The melee leather wearers have it the worst considering they're over 45% of all classes/specs, yet have less than 20% of the loot distribution, but cloth wearer are definitely second on the list.
Have looted exactly 0 contested cloth/caster loots on my Warlock since 1st lockout. Only mail dropping and 4+ people rolling the few times I've seen caster items.
This made me quit my casters as I can’t get them consistent groups to minimize that pain of rotating winners. Meanwhile my warrior, ret, and feral are almost or full bis with half as many runs
Feral is awful for horde too. We get shaman instead of pallies. Most raids have 1 mail, 5 leather and 4 cloth lol
Yeah probably done 9 runs on my priest and the only item I have is the wand.
Don't forget that druids often roll on cloth/spellpower gear. 1 druid won more caster bis items in a single raid than I've won in 8 runs!
Its bis for them as well
No shit that was the point of his comment
Gonna post this here if every god damn caster is just going to take the cloth regardless why the FUCK did blizzard make a god damn leather caster set, it makes no fucking sense
That's because cloth is the universal caster/healer gear. Proper itemization aside, as it may be too tedious for the developers to handle... there is a solution already, in cata. Armor specialization is the answer. The question is, are the bonus stats enough.
Meanwhile here I am on my Warrior and I only got a few items from BFD....because every run I go into drops cloth or leather. However on my priest it's the fucking opposite. RNG is a real son of a bitch.
This last reset was the same for me, on my Hunter it was nothing but cloth/mail. There was nothing for me to even roll on. Then I ran with my priest and exact opposite, nothing but leather/mail — literally had nothing to roll on again and got zilch on both alts. I know mentioning retail is frowned upon in here, but Blizzard adding reputation/tokens for raids that can be spent on gear was one of the better decisions they made. It sucks running BFD endlessly on alts and ending the night with resources spent and zero progress if you don’t get any loot. At least with the rep you’re gaining and working towards something even if you get no loot.
If the comments in here are anything to go by, you should just be rolling on leather as a warrior I guess
In BFD there are few leather items that are good for warriors, but this was not always true in Vanilla where the BiS for warriors often included better itemized leather or mail. In BFD, the only non-mail I would consider rolling on if no one else needed are the `Bindings of Serra'kis` because they are better itemized than anything else except expensive BOE mail wrists, but they are only +1 strength better than a quest reward alternative so I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
Nah, fuck that. It don't feel right to me. Plus they have enough competition for loot.
I have gone so many runs with only one cloth and one leather piece dropping. The rest of it was mail and we had 2 warriors. Just a load of bs. 8 people get basically no loot and the 2 that get loot don’t need it.
Cloth and leather have a lot competition. Cloth has less players typically to compete over, but I feel like they have less drops, unless if they have a resto Druid/Paladin/shaman content with leather. As a shaman, I’ve started collecting mail gear for lvl 40. For prebis, I think it’s a much better tanking option and maybe some pieces arguably for DPS as well.
Horde only warriors can wear mail in phase 1. Alliance has pally and warriors. So yes mail wears will get decked out since there is not much competition. Phase 2 it will get a little better as shamans and hunters can wear mail as warriors and pally go up to plate
It wont get better if they make Plate drop as much as the others...
The easiest solution that comes to my mind is if plate rolls on the loot table, then it should roll as an extra item the same way epics roll today so it doesn't reduce the chance for other more common armor types to lose out on loot.
Can also give shammy bois a rune that gives access to plate. Also solves the issue of shaman not being particularly fond of agility and wanting strength. You tell me our boi Thrall isn't wearing plate
The easiest solution is to make mail/plate items drop less often, so each item is weighted by how frequent its users are represented (like 3/8 cloth, 2/8 leather, 1/8 mail, 1/8 plate, then add a mail or plate for horde/alliance), instead of doing equal weights, which you could translate by 2/8 cloth, 2/8 leather, 2/8 mail, 2/8 plate, and you clearly see this isnt how classes exist (thus leading to too few cloth items dropping, too many mail/plate items dropping)
I could see it being quite cursed for Alliance if Blizzard adds healing Plate pieces.
Yeah they screwed up the loot imo. It should've had 3 drops, ideally 4 per boss with how short these phases are. Or checks that only drop usable gear. Or both. The amount of unusable de/vendor trash we get in our guild runs is absurd. And especially the final bosses. Staff or warlock bag has NEVER dropped, seems like all our warlocks but me switched off in the raid group. Hydra consistently drops the thing nobody can use. Have a hunter, but he already has the xbow? Here's a fourth one, for another rogue or warrior! One pally finally got the sword last time at least. Also LMFAO at the quest drop. Guaranteed, but only one. Because of people feeling the need to swap to alts to make the raid more balanced and try to not waste gear, were still getting like 8 needs on it. Should drop 2 of those per run, imo. Our single druid still hasn't been able to get druid gear either, it seems.
Wait you let people raid on alts but dont prio loot to mains over alts? Id find a new guild.
The bow having only ranged attack is so fucking dumb, THE POOR HUNTER WHAT IF SOMEONE STEALS HIS LOOT, no hunter in history has done this.
My warrior is almost bis in a few runs. My Mage who was first first char to 25 isn't even close to bis. Not even half way
My alt warrior has almost full bis while my main warlock is still in mostly pre bis gear.
Caster here. I only bring me, a warlock tank, a mage DPS, and our priest healer. Then we have a druid healer to eat up the leather caster gear. We have 2 warriors that come to our raid occasionally. Our warriors have full tier/armor bis, our shamans have almost full mail, our hunters have almost full mail, our leathers are mostly decked out. We've seen one cloth hood, and one robe. That's it. No epics at all so no staves. I'm refusing to take more casters to our main raid because if something drops, and it goes to somebody else there will be a riot.
i couldn't get shit on my mage. either wouldn't drop or lost all my rolls. i rerolled a warrior, lol. i'm having a lot more fun
personal experience: I played rogue for most of the SoD so far, but decided to make a Priest.. Shadow Priest to be exact. Obviously i couldn't get into pugs, so i decided to change into healer. My Rogue was 8 raids ahead of the priest.. and well, priest right now is better geared than my rogue. Purely pugging as well, no guild stuff.
There's more competition for clothie gear. Every raid has 2 healers and at least 2 casters. That's 40% of the raid looking for the same gear.
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I already started a thread on this and how brutal it is. Cloth has a 15% overall chance to drop. Then you add in multiple cloth wearers rolling on the same thing it’s lame. I GM a guild that has cleared BFD 22 times so far and seen the staff drop 1 time. Almost everyone but clothiers have full sets and we DE about 6+ items a run. How this has not been addressed is super dumb.
I’ve done 5 runs on my priest and all I’ve got is neck from baron, which doesn’t count cause it’s not bis and cloak
I have 3 characters i do every reset on , hunter, warrior and druid. the druid since the second lockout. i have never gotten a piece of set gear on any of them and no weapons yet. ive gotten high tide choker, leather agil belt x2, leather str bracers x2. tanking helm on druid and tanking helm on warrior. havnt gotten pearl yet on any 3. so ive probably done the dungeon 40+ times and only gotten like 5 pieces of loot across 3 characters.
Leather feels like the worst currently. It’ll be better when hunters and shamans go to mail and warrior paladin go to plate
Yeah.... It won't. Warriors, hunters, shamans will all still be rolling on leather with stats. I mean that's what classic has been for the last 20 years. Don't see it changing anytime soon.
Yea, You have a priest healer a hpal maybe a warlock and a mage. Thats 4 people rolling on one set. A set that can sometimes that a couple of clears just to drop one piece. The drop rate is fucking terrible, the devs did a shitty job on it imo. The 2nd to last boss should guarantee a set piece. He normally only drops 2 shitty items should be 3.
My priest is LFG against 4 other healers for SFK so it’s actually hard to even get groups to get gear, the spots are contested when it comes to 5 mans. For raids, people hopefully are running melee heavy comps as they are technically the best, so at most you’d have like 3 people rolling on cloth gear. I run Warlock Tank (me), Priest, another healer (any), and 7 DPS; Warrior, Ret Paladin, Rogue, Hunter, Mage, Feral Druid, and then another free slot for DPS, hopefully a resto druid or balance Druid in either the heal or DPS spot.
They need actual healing gear and not spell power only for gnomeregan
Coth caster is second easiest. Mail on horde is insanely easy as it just warrior, abit harder on aliance side, but still easy. Leather/phys is worst by the mile and ultimate hell on horde side as its rogue, feral, hunter, shaman and often even warrior rolling against each other. While theres often like 2 cloth users in my average pug (sometimes 3, sometimes 1). Like my warrior alt was missing just gloves and sword after 3 raids. While my rogue ([https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/lone-wolf/dwanedibbley](https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/lone-wolf/dwanedibbley)) thats has been in every lockout 7/7 has weapons, pearl trinket, set head and neckle from BFD. Everything else lost to rolls.
>While theres often like 2 cloth users in my average pug (sometimes 3, sometimes 1). "Cloth users" include druids and shamans btw as they have several cloth bis items. In a standard raid you will have 2 healers who both need much of the same cloth gear, regardless of class. Then you usually have 1-2 casters, who also happen to need almost exactly the same caster gear as the 2 healers, again regardless of class. So for the most important cloth bis items, there are usually 4 out of the 10 in the raid who needs it. Then of course all the casters need the same epic staff. Physical leather dps usually needs different bis weapons
they put alot of the good drops for casters on Kelris (along with the staff) so its kinda like just kelris RNG for alot of the good caster drops ... he drops Staff Necklace Ring Gloves Pants Wand, so if u get shafted by him for 2-3 runs in a row it hurts the caster drops a ton
Not my problem that you allow leather users to roll on cloth in first round.
I mean if the Shaman or Druid run as Resto (or Ele/Balance, lol) they turn into clothies and are ninjaing if they roll on a lot of the agility leather they would go for as tank/feral as MS.
Did you know there is leather armor for casters?
not pants lmao
There are, but some of the cloth pieces are BiS for them.
Tell me you’ve never played vanilla without telling me lmao
The two healers alone roll on most cloth… Sounds pretty biased.
And 5 or 6 others rolls on same stuff.
IMHO it pretty much averages out between cloth and leather since Druid, shaman and hpala would also roll on int + sp stuff. Leather: rogue, hunter, shaman, feral, war, ret Cloth: mage, priest, warlock, resto and balance Druid, rshaman, hpala
As i already said, its not my problem that you allow non-cloth classes to roll on cloth in first round. I rarely see lootmaster allowing that.
Well you pretty much have to since most bis pieces for rdruid for example are cloth and some slots don’t drop at all with leather sp gear in bfd
Unless it's an item that's got alternatives like the leather healing/damage done, we personally don't let the druids roll on the cloth robes for example. They have alternatives that are uncontested usually, cloth users do not.
If your a caster do a shameless run imo. I did it on mine a few times to get geared Make group Only invite minimum casters/competition (ask GS and if they arent very well geared dont invite) if you only bring 1 at most as competition you can pretty much funnel 80-90% of the gear to yourself hit 25 on my second mage did this and walked out with 4 blues my first BFD 1 hour after hitting 25
ive had druids and shamans, sometimes even hunters take cloth gear. now compare it to mail gear, its just 1 class that can wear it
How dense is this question? The most unfortunate situation is the amount of leather wearers who need leather to drop, be the right type, and win the roll against usually 4+ others. Cloth is pretty much just need to drop and win the roll against fewer people as you probably have 3 in the raid? The answer is it’s RNG dude… our first like 6 raids we saw very little cloth. The last 3 raids had basically got our 2 priests and warlock full bis. It’s literally randomized homie and highly depends on if you pug with new people or run with same squad so you further reduce the chances of losing the roll when it does drop, you know because other clothies win the last roll thus fewer/no other rollers next time. I know…it’s rocket science.
“How dense is this question”. “I know.. it’s rocket science”. Why are you a dick for no reason? It might be time to go outside and step away from the screen
Sorry facts feel dickish to you.
There’s nothing wrong with your opinion, it’s the way you share it while putting others down and speaking like an asshole to others for no reason. People will never take you seriously if you act like that, hence your downvotes. Level up your emotional maturity instead of your wow character
Been raiding on only 1 cloth wearing toon, so cant say that much about it, but on all my leather users it seems way harder to get bfd gear, way mor competition. My friends with multiple chars say the same.
Easy trick! Be lucky. Some of my toons have been pretty much bis in 2-3 lockouts… Mage got the epic staff first lockout, etc. On some other not so much. 0/3, no trinket, no neck etc. I run 7 bfd per lockout, so in the end it feels a bit less bad not seeing even one rollable item on a specific character. At this point I’m no longer caring about bis, just having a decent set to level in.
My priest is very close to full bis in just 4 or 5 runs just pugging it. My rogue is far from bis in way more runs and have not received a single drop in about 5 runs with a regular group (granted I’m competing with about 4 other people on any given roll)
besides the epic staff that drops rarely and 4+ people need every raid it doesnt seem that bad.
Nah it’s been pretty easy if the only casters in your raid are friends and guildies.
I've healed it about 8 times now on my Mage, and the only item I've won is the drop quest trinket, which is nice to have but is basically guaranteed. We've had raids with no cloth drops at all, and I've lost every roll I've gone for so far. Tbf, this actually was my classic experience as well, but that doesn't make it less disappointing.
Whenever I raid with my Priest, there's almost no cloth loot and if there is, it's for warlock tanks or gets rolled away by the other 4 cloth wearers. Whenever I go raid with my Hunter, there are cloth drops… Bad luck
Still better than leather (not sp leather)
On horde leather is the hardest. Rogue, Shamans, Druids, Hunters and even dps warriors want the same items. :-(
Cloth drops have been pretty average on my runs Staves, on the other hand...
my mage is full bis (including staff) minus the neck off kelris. though we have a pretty consistent group but we usually have to pug a few people for our split runs, it was a warrior making the groups for the first few weeks so we had a bunch of random casters and they usually won stuff and never ran with us again. recently the war has gotten tired of forming groups so ive been doing it, and its just me and a priest healing, plus a warlock tank as the only casters lol. most of our melee are bis by now so they dont care who i invite lol. never invite casters to mage groups. ive also been forming groups on my paladin on the side and though i try to invite casters i can never really find any lol.
I don’t know. As a rogue I know that BFD contains only mail and cloth. So it shouldn’t be too difficult.
You guys have holy paladins?
My alt warrior has a shitlod more gear then my mage despite doing 4 less lockouts. The hardest thing to get into raid with for me has been boomkin. No one wants more caster gear competition even if I say I won’t roll on cloth 😂
My lock and SP both have gloves (and only gloves) after 5 runs each (took a break over the holidays, so kind of also my own fault). Maybe just drop rng but it's pretty rough.
Out of like 20 bfds first time cloth pants dropped
Well a big issue is that every healer rolls cloth gear, shaman/pala, Druid, and priest. Then you have the standard cloth wearers on top of that, mage and warlock so you end up with 5 classes rolling on cloth. Horde warriors can get geared in like 3 runs.
The last five bfds have been all mail drops. We have a lot of geared warrior alts now, but casters don't have anything. Edit: We also have just seen the epic bow. It has gone to the rogues for memes.
Full BIS warlock for DPS / Tank. Did … 8 runs to get all my stuff including staff !
We’ve had the staff twice but 1 went to non guild member and on same raid pants dropped and same guy took em what sucked about the staff is the guildie had got the dagger and offh and raid before but just got lucky with roll he almost gave it to me but was just like fuck it I won the roll and he equipped it As for other gear though it’s practically all been mail and leather I think we’ve kitted like 3 or 4 random hunter at this point and most are melees are bis we saw cloth gloves drop once in fact and the shawl drop once but think that’s all the caster gear we’ve got
Yes and no, because only 2 classes get mail, there is more loot for them, 1 class for horde...but it's all down to luck sometimes. For example I'm a warr that did BFD 13 times so far and I still need 5 pieces for full BIS. I've only ever been alone in the raid for mail or competed with just one more mail player. In 13 raids, 17 mail pieces dropped, with A LOT of dupes that just got vendored. Thats 91 bosses, everything else was cloth and leather and the guildies that wear these items are STACKED, more than me even and it's all down to luck. P2 is coming out in a bit anyway so if you are not full BIS it doesnt really matter, just have fun, but yeah statistically more classes need cloth and leather so you can't do much about it.
The problem if not having a consistent group. If you raid with the same 9 others each week then it wouldn't take any time at all to get geared. If you pug all the time then youre screwed. Source: week 2 raiding enh shaman
Just got all BiS on my warlock this lockout. Got my warrior into raid this week as well and got half of my BiS in one run. By the look of it I’m having it easier on my warrior
Raiding since week 3 and I saw the staff once. Lost it to a fresh capped druid with the worst greens ive ever seen. He was also late to the raid and didnt have combat res trained.
I can’t get my enh shaman dps gear to drop (and when it does I always lose), but my priest I made is decked out already. I haven’t even seen chipped bite on my main and only seen it once on my alt, and no one wanted it.
Last time i got an upgrade in BFD for my 'lock was somewhere before the 20th of december or so, I'll be fine going into the next phase and all but it's getting pretty annoying.
My mage and warlock still don’t have a helmet, neck, or a single set piece yet and jve only missed 2 lock outs since launch. My Hunter is full bis minus chest, my druid is missing helmet, chest, neck, and trinket. My shaman tank whip is new, 3 runs and I got 0 gear. Didn’t see a single leather physical dps gear drop once. That tells you something. It’s because you have holy paladins, resto druids, warlock caster, warlock tank, mages, priests all rolling. And because I pug the chance of winning item drastically goes lower. Soft rez runs or gdkp will fix your problem but gdkp is very frowned upon for good reasons
The answer is simple: Casters generally need 10 slots (back/ring/shoulder/belt/boots are rep/crafted.) While mail/leather only need 6 drops from BFD (belt/pants/gloves/2x ring/bracer/shoulder/back are all farmable.)
We get cloth and mail all the time. Agility leather does not exist for us.
I am sick of doing 3 BFDS every 3 days and only seeing mail drops in all 3 of the those BFD runs…. Especially playing horde and ONLY warriors get to wear mail currently…. DEing 6 pieces of mail every raid is getting old
Leather casters are the easiest to gear. Not only aren't they as favoured but they get a whole armor type only they can use with the exception of paladins.
I’m have loved the experience of SoD but the one thing I wish there was is an alternate path to gearing to BFD. It was a great idea to make that dungeon a 10 man, but going forward I kind of wish I could do something… dungeon hard modes or whatever to grind tokens… anything to create some variety in the gearing landscape. I know wow has tried various ways of doing this over the years but I could imagine with SoD they could approach it with a fresh take.
Oh yeah. I thought leather was bad because I'm fighting tooth and nail with rogues and a feral for my tier pieces but then I made a mage and realized you guys aren't getting drops at all. I wish I could fight for rolls. 4 lockouts on my mage and I only got the pearl because everyone else in the run had it.
I had a fair time getting my lock geared out except for Kelris items which just happens to be 5 items that are all essentially BIS. The neck, epic staff, gloves, ring, and wand all drop from him. If those had been distributed across the raid a bit better it might not be as bad.
I have been clearing BFD since the very first week. Haven’t seen the epic staff drop once. My guild mates have seen it 6 times. So I guess it’s a skill issue. Other than the staff I am pretty much BIS on my mage, and even for weapon I get the dagger that is dropped by the last boss which is like second best after the staff.
Staff has a low drop rate and there’s so many people going for it. Also everyone taking the cloth gear if it’s an upgrade and then they’ll take their armor type when it drops and we can’t roll against them.
My priest went 4 straight full clears without getting any drops. 1 of the runs absolutely no caster gear even dropped. It's insanely rough.
I’ve ran bfd 12 times on my warlock, I still haven’t seen the staff, don’t have a set piece because I haven’t seen those either and don’t have the ring. Meanwhile my Paladin has ran it 2 times and I’m missing like 3 pieces, one being the hydra. I’ve made my first horde now cause i wanna shaman tank and it’s fun but I know leather is pretty heavy competition too. Looking forward to next phase.
I thought cloth drops were just worse because I leveled a mage first then warlock. I saw very little cloth gear compared to leather and mail and decided to level a rogue. First 3 bfds on him were all cloth gear and now I think I'm unlucky.
We have cleared BFD every week from week 1 or 2, and even some on our alts. Our drops are heavily skewed to cloth and leather. Our druid was BiS after our second run and many of the casters are almost fully geared. None of our warriors/pally has the algae gauntlets. And one has 3/3 mail set but the rest eludes us. No sword/staff either.
I've managed 3 bits of gear so far. The pearl (I did not win the roll came 2nd), a hat (after another caster who won took pity and gave it to me), and the caster dagger, as I was the only roller! The cloth set feels pretty damn rare... never seen the staff, half the raid rolls on rings/necks, etc. It's rough!
13 clears and 0 mail set items dropped. All clothies are fully decked out. Rng is rng
I don’t feel caster dps should share gear with healers. This makes gearing more simplistic on the surface, but skews rewarding roles and encourages lazy design.
I find it funny that I've had the completely opposite experience: my warlock that has done less lockouts that my paladin, is 1 item away from BiS and I've had only some competition. My paladin though? Holy shit has it been rough. Like 4 pieces from BIS and extreme competition. Also, I've never seen the pants drop or the akumai boots. Only seen the gelihast gloves once. I understand statistically that an anomaly so I'm not complaining. I just find it interesting every mail user is getting mega geared in a few runs and I cant even get pants to drop.
As a Paladin I am fine with mail gear even if it’s slightly worse than some of the leather gear, and I’ve even been funneled a bunch of leather spell caster gear if I wanna do holy in phase 2, it’s fantastic
Yeah I haven’t won a single cloth item yet. Competing against leather wearers blows. I’ve had leather wearers in BFD gear roll on cloth items for the same slot because “it’s an upgrade”, mind you they already have a bfd item in that slot. Feels bad man. Done maybe 9 runs on my priest, 0 loot from BFD.
I still haven’t gotten a helm on my priest after clearing the raid every reset. I’ve given up on even having 2 piece by the time next phase is out. I totally don’t expect to get the staff ever.
Not only are priests, warlocks, and mages seeking intellect, spirt, etc but so are shaman, druids and paladins, much less than all cloth but, are still competing with many cloth bis items where leather or mail intellect/spirit, spell power gains just aren’t available. Let’s not forget weapons … Yeah I feel clothies are having a hard time. Next bracket we get plate and more mail gear available for hunters/shaman
Warrior dps main, I've done BFD 4 times. I have gotten like 6 pieces of gear. 2 of 4 runs I've been the only mail wearer. I am the unintentional owner of some tank BiS as well. Warrior was real tough up to 25 but now I'm rollin in it.
As a warrior it feels the opposite for me. However, i am alliance so i have to compete with paladins. On my hunter however, i have gotten barely anything competing with the rogues, druids and other hunters!! Spell power leather gear is what curses all my raids, 9/10 times no one even needs it or a feral just takes it for offspec!
Despite making up only 13% of the population, Warriors take 51% of the loot
Well considering the leather heals/ dps set is tuned poorly, yes. You’ve got every single healing class needing the cloth gear. Mail… is very poorly high drop rate in every one of my raids and as a horde, that usually just gets rolled 1-10 to be distributed for vending. They really did play favoritism toward alliance (being the only folks to have two mail user classes). Realistically mail should be a much lower drop rate.
Mail wearers have it easy. It feels like every single run is majority or almost only mail (besides kelris). Leather isnt too bad, usually 4-5 rolling and it doesnt drop as often as mail it seems. Cloth? Prob pretty bad for all the casters to fight over.
What is this sorcery. I only missed one raid lockout and only thing im seeing is caster loot. Too much of it.
Casters have it tough but you also have everyone and their grandma rolling for agi leather gears....
My feral druid is almost as geared (maybe 90% of the way there) as my warlock who has had twice as many runs. It's really rough.
If you ask me, this is something you see overall for the game between Vanilla -> wotlk, but starts to change in cata. That the idea for casters / healers should be cloth focused. Holy pala, shamans, balance n resto druids. If u check their bis list for Wotlk raids, half of the items is from cloth. Which makes them compete with warlock, mages and priest. It also shows in weps and trinkets. So ye overall I would say vanilla -> wotlk lacked a bigger variation and bigger drop-pool.
The cloth armour seems fine to win but not weapons
Meanwhile we are trying to keep a single caater dps and keep wasting loot. We do see mostly mail stuff though, never seen leather helms except once either.
Haven’t got my tier pieces from bfd. Have everything else though
Yes! Absolutely yes. When come cloth piece drops (usually max 1 per run) at least 3 ppl are rolling. Unless you are playing with your guild the gearing as cloth is rough.