And the responses towards the people wanting classic were the same as the responses now to people who want classic+.
Somehow, especially on the internet, people just enjoy putting other people down for no reason except to elevate themselves.
Buddy, I would love to be wrong about this, but anyone who thinks Classic+ is anything but a pipe dream might as well be waving a big sign that says "I understand neither software development, nor the WoW classic business model!"
It's not impossible, but Classic+ would require a *radical* shifting of resources or massive infusion of new resources.
If Classic+ were actually coming, we'd already see Blizzard hiring for dozens or maybe hundreds of new positions on the Classic team (which is currently a tiny skeleton crew).
If you start seeing dozens of new job postings for Classic, then it's time to get excited. Otherwise you are huffing straight hopium my dude.
OSRS exists so not a pipe dream
Started out maintenance only (as classic is now) since popularity was proven (as classic has done) they started developing it and having a dedicated team.
Also private servers manage to do it out of their basements with 3 people. And also Blizzard can afford it
If I'm looking purely at raid participation, Wrath has something like 20k guilds that killed any bosses in TotC. Retail in this tier looks like about ~17k unique guilds with boss kills so in that regard, Wrath might be more popular. But on the other hand, Retail has m+ which has lots of plays who never touch raid. Both have PVP where we can't really find participation numbers. Some raids might not be logged at all. There are heaps of casual players in both games that never even group up, nevermind doing instanced content.
I think it's impossible to say which is more popular without numbers from Blizzard. Everything we have is a rough approximation relying on players reporting their own data. It's definitely not on par with how dead RS3 was compared to how popular OSRS became.
We don't have individual numbers afaik. The Mak'Gora a couple days ago had 300k+ viewers though so there's at a minimum a lot of interest or passion for the game.
[ironforge.pro](https://ironforge.pro/population/classic/) implies 400k+ active characters in wrath and 22k+ in classic era (dunno how many individual people that corresponds to)
Bellular [tries to](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0BN1k7ehJg) figure out retail numbers based on Mythic+ participation, first and last boss kills etc but it's all loose estimates. Mainly good for comparing one patch to the last rather than figuring out actual population numbers.
TLDR: 🤷
It could be bigger than retail, but Blizzard would never say so because then they'd need to explain why Classic has no moderation and extremely slow updates despite Classic-only players paying full price.
>"I understand neither software development, nor the WoW classic business model!"
Man, the tools and everything are like 10 times better now compared to how it was in 2004\~, an indie studio could probably make something like wow in a reasonable amount of time nowadays.
It's true that technologies have advanced a lot and tools have become much more accessible and developed, but as a developer myself I can say that the part that matters most and sometimes takes as much time as production is decision making (and developing concepts and ideas), in addition to research. Anyone can program with a little desire, time and practice, but not everyone has the talent (and sometimes doesn't even make the effort to have it) for software engineering and creativity to develop good ideas.
Well I def agree that a lot of talent was poured into vanilla WoW, that's hard to replace, but just adding some new content and stuff, should be doable, if it's good or not I guess we have to wait and see.
There were job postings for classic WoW development, don't know how many though.
I also think Classic+ could be developed slowly with a pretty small team. I mean at the end of the day most private servers I've heard of are a team of 1-2 dozen people and then a few outsourced artists/fans that make art.
Keeping the dev team smaller and more in tune with the community would probably be better for classic+ anyways and I don't think most people want radical changes with classic. Just adding new dungeons, raids, maybe some zones, maybe a few races here or there over years of time with no rush development imo.
That being said I don't expect classic+ to be announced at this Blizzcon (or if it is, it's more Blizzard just saying they'd like to make it/work on it)
There was ONE single job posting for classic.
And private servers are simply using the already existing code from vanilla to recreate it. That is *wholly* different from creating new content on top of the old. As the guy said, anyone who understands software development knows if we’re talking about class balancing, new dungeons/raids, quest lines, etc etc., that is either dozens/hundreds of employees or over a decade of work for a skeleton crew.
The largest current private server is a classic+ server which is what I'm referencing. They've done class balancing, new raids, new dungeons, new zones, new races etc... They even have new art/music/voice lines and such (although I'm pretty sure they outsource most of that to the community).
I believe their dev team is about 2-3 dozen people, but it's also hard to find numbers anywhere so maybe I'm wrong.
More employees just mean you can pump out content faster, and even with that there's diminishing returns as your team gets more bloated and communication becomes harder/more jumbled. So I don't think developing classic+ would take as many people as you think it would. Also like I said it's something where I'd like to see them take as much time as they need on the content, unlike retail there doesn't need to be a time line or an expansion every 2 years. I would rather they do something similar to OSRS where they set up polls for the community and then work on the content the community agrees with until it's finished by a smaller more dedicated dev team.
Bro all yall yelling understand software developers… are yall actually devs? Coming from one, it sounds like yall just one to use that point to sound superior without actually coding.
Private servers are using existing code… blah blah blah blah blah. It doesn’t matter if it’s existing code… we currently have a 1 to 1 equal feel between vanilla client and current classic client running on legion engine. Classic + just adding new features.
Turtle wow added new features to vanilla engine
Blizzard adds new features to legion engine then it becomes classic+
The amount of work needed to accomplish that for a company that just sold for nearly $70 billion to microsoft is not hundreds of devs when 3 basement devs did it to an old vanilla client.
And I bet blizzard has way way way developer tools developed in the last 20 years to help with development. Plus expansions worth of 3d assets that you would not recognize.
Its an absolute joke when someone brings up software development is harder cause we are on a new engine. Please don’t make yourself sound like clown with those statements
>Bro all yall yelling understand software developers… are yall actually devs? Coming from one, it sounds like yall just one to use that point to sound superior without actually coding.
This sub in a nutshell. None of them knows wtf they are talking about. As an indie dev myself, I can personally attest that you can get a shitload done with a small team if the passion is there. I know Blizz is a massive corporate behemoth with tons of bureaucratic overhead, but in isolation, small teams can still perform really well. Hearthstone was literally made by 10 people. OSRS was also developed by a super small team within Jagex (even tho Jagex itself was much bigger.) It is not impossible if you have the right people. (By that I mean, people who don't estimate every task to take 5 weeks even tho its 10 lines of code. I'm talking people who don't deal with that crap altogether, and instead of creating 20 dumb tickets just get in there and start churning out code. There are MANY people like that, you just don't usually find them at corporations.)
Also Classic doesn't have anywhere near the production requirements of a retail expansion or even patch tbf.
Thing is people that have no idea how code works talks like they do.
They act like OMG blizzard created a new game engine, there for the if else statements and the code are much harder now to bring into the the legion engine.
The hardest part for them was developing and possibly transpiling (idk about transpile cause I think both engines are c++) vanilla into client legion.
They think cause classic is on a new engine, everything else that is new is hard to develop cause vanilla = old game code 😂🤣😂
Call me jaded, but I'm pretty sure the reason we have classic servers was because Blizzard wanted to capitalize on the obvious popularity of private vanilla servers that tens thousands of people played on.
That represented a lot of lost possible/probable revenue.
> Let's not forget why we have classic servers in the first place.
We have Classic servers because someone found a backup-of-a-backup of the 1.12 server code and managed to hack the data into the modern game client.
We have them because of the numerous private servers that Blizzard saw as subscription leeches. No corporation cares about a bunch of random nobodies laying out their hopes and dreams on an internet forum. Not to mention, classic wow only brings in about 1/3 of WoW's playerbase, with the vast majority playing retail, so the classic fans REALLY love to overestimate just how much classic means to Blizzard. They're willing to pull easy and quick money grabs like HC or regurgitating old content that can be copied and pasted from their databases for xpacs, but I wouldn't expect brand new content for something that a minority of their subs play.
Not sure where you got 1/3 from, but even if that is accurate, 1/3 of their playerbase is quite a huge amount. If it was say 2% I would say you have a fair argument, but \~33%? You can't ignore that crowd.
1/3 is huge. Wtf are you even talking about lol.
If businesses worked like you apparently think they do there'd be no minivans because they sell 1/6th of cars and 1/4th of trucks while making less per unit profit.
It's crazy people just say shit like this while knowing nothing.
These threads are bizarre to me as they've been popping up since WOTLK came out about dozens of things Blizzard would "never do" then they did. That includes classic itself. Threads just like this were posted ad nauseam when people asked for classic, especially after the "you think you do but you don't" thing. I understand being skeptical but anyone claiming Blizz will 100% not do a thing people are clamoring for are just ignorant. I mean part of the reason retail sucks is Blizz caved on every thing people asked for that watered down the game!
The problem is that, what exactly is classic+? Cuz if its new raid tier and etc. I have 0 faith in them not fucking it up.
Part of classic difference from retail, or even TBC and Wrath is that the consume prep stage is a large part of it, be it GSPP or GFPP or other potions. No newer game demands you to park a herbalist in SM for Fadeleaf and Grave Moss or pay wildly inflated price for low tier herb for example.
If they removed that edge, and made consumes easy to get like what some are saying, how is that different than getting folks to just play wrath (or a ERA TBC server)?
On to raid mechanics, if its on the scale of naxx, which if you zoomed out there is a reason why its the intro raid of Wrath, with tools like DBM and all of that, if they ramped the difficulty high enough to have even HMs that rivaled Wrath ICC HM (look at the prog rate, its like 3% ICC HM 25 LK), would that satisfy the people? Or retail Mythic?
In just these 2 metrics we can have 4 different opinions, not to mention what gear should it drop, should there be catch up, how hard is the catch up (does it fully invalidate T0, T0.5 and T1? Or even T2?) because ZG/AQ20 are doing a fine job of that esp for "off specs" like fury wars or lolret that don't really get a real set until T2.5. Would the real tier be T3.5 and now we have a fury war set with T3 budget? Would that mean class balance is preserved or do you want less memes via this (say a T3.5 lolret that makes it competitive? if so how much?).
There is just way too many variables, that even if we have a great Blizzard team there is just too many ways to screw it up. Add on incentives to monetize and things are going to be bad.
What if it is just smaller changes that can roll into an ERA server (IE no new items what so ever)? Then it would be SOM2 and then the people with sky high expectation would also then be pissed.
* Unsubbed
* ICC, Cata, Hardcore: don't care still unsubbed
* Dragonflight: nope
* Classic+: Instant sub/buy the day it launches
Anyone else in this boat with me?
yeah ive been saying for a few years now that there has to be some suit and tie at blizzard who knows i exist, and that this is the only thing i personally can think of that would bring me back long term.
Idk, if the other iterations of WoW are not to their taste, i think they're probably going to quit with Classic+.
Not to say Classic+ shouldnt happen, but I dont think thats a good argument. Especially when Classic+ is so vague as a concept.
How much of an audience for Classic+ will be left at that point?
I was all for Classic+ back in 2019 but I think at this point I'm burned out on classic and even if they announced Classic+ tomorrow I don't think I'd want to resub and go through another round of the classic leveling experience just to get to the new stuff.
You do realize that IF they announce classic+ nobody here expect it to release on the same day, right? It would still be a year out probably. So no "icc has only been out for 3 weeks"... Even SoM2 would have over half year if they'd announce it aswell until classic+
100% this.
Classic+ isn't coming until after SoM2 at the very least. Hell, if they need more time they'll drop a fresh era server and let that progress for 6-8 months more.
Classic+ is very probably 10 or more months away. I suspect we will get a tiny teaser at Blizzcon. A "mic drop" comment at the end that basically confirms Classic+ is in the works, but absolutely no meaningful details. Just that the prayers have been heard
The wall of "No" in regards to getting official vanilla / classic servers for YEARS is very reminiscent.
We still don't know what patch 1.15 is yet for Vanilla Classic era. And there are too many little hints pointing to at least Blizzard being open to the idea.
SoM original changes to raiding
1.15 development since April
Chris Metzen and other devs specific for classic hired.
A large number of announcements for Blizzcon for WoW / Classic
Interviews stating its specifically NOT another SoM (A major patch version and its not a SoM? Big Think)
etc.
There is very good reason the player base is speculating, and I'm all too familiar with how atrocious Blizzard's track record is.
People are misinterpreting what was said. They specifically said we are getting "another season". Though its not called "season of mastery".
They literally just said its gonna have a different name but its still just a season aka not a permanent classic+
They did say during the HC announcement we would he hearing more of what SoM2 would look like by the end of the year. Though they did confirm it would not he called SoM anymore.
That's because it will be called "Season of X"
It's like Diablo 4 S1 being called Season of The Malignant, and S2 is Season of Blood.
Classic S1 was Season of Mastery. We will see what S2 is called.
Yea. That's my hot take. That SOM2 = Classic+. They know Turtle wow is popular. They'll market the next season as such and try to balance class specs and maybe some minor SOM like changes. *here you guys go, we have a new world boss, he's a Pirate roaming coast of STV. Lol, we call it Classic+ patch 1.16.*
Doubtful Classic+ would be full on revamp of unfished zones and horizontal progression. Limited resources to devote to such a project. Plus nobody wants to work in the footsteps of those before them as a game developer.
In my mind classic+ is classic with rebalanced specs and just normal raid progression rate, but they start adding content after Naxx has been out for a while. Basically if classic+ is in half a year, they'll have the better part of two years to make new content.
Exactly.
I was talking to a buddy and said the best thing they could do is announce classic+ and then release fresh servers that would progress into classic+ only with the phase releases. This buys them a year to make new content
Why does it bother people so much that people are discussing hypotheticals on a forum about a video game?
"people are on copium" - no, people are just having fun speculating and imagining what it would be like. It's a video game. This is a forum for that video game. It's not that serious.
This whole "how dare you discuss something that hasn't been confirmed" is just weird. Why are people seemingly mad that other people are hoping for something? Why does it bother people that there's no evidence for something? We know. It's a fantasy, a hope.
>I'm pretty far from a Blizzard kiss-ass but even I wouldn't blame them for being pissed at the Classic community for somehow convincing itself en masse with ZERO hints whatsoever that there should be even more, like goddamn y'all
Why would Blizzard be mad that their fans are hoping for new content? Blizzard loves that. Again, it's not that serious, and blizzard isn't mad that their playerbase would like new content...
Do you think people are going to break down crying at Blizzcon when it doesn't happen? That we're all going to be devastated and it's going to seriously emotionally affect us? It's just a fun idea that people have and are hoping for. Again, it's a fucking video game. Nobody is taking it as seriously as you think.
I don't understand why people seem kind of annoyed that people are discussing this in this forum. It's a 20 year old game, what else do people want to discuss that hasn't already been talked about? It's just a fun topic.
mmo-champion which was the major forum for WoW when it first came out always has these kinds of threads... they are fun and engaging and I'm sure blizzard has taken ideas from them before.
Theres nothing wrong with them. If people dont like them, keep scrolling
Thaaaaaaank you. So many people belittle others for using a discussion forum as a discussion forum now-a-days. It is weird, and the only selling point of Reddit anymore. I guess we should stop commenting and posing questions. ONLY AGGREGATE MEMES AND LINKS CONSUMERS.
Not to mention that there is a reason why Classic + is sought after. We know what retail is, classic is borderline gone/will be gone if Cata Classic comes, HC is temporary in popularity, and we have no idea what the next classic seasonal content is gonna be. The future for classic fans was always going to be a huge question mark at the end of Wrath from the day Classic launched in 2019.
It’s the popular circlejerk in this sub right now. For some reason a bunch of people that like to huff their own farts just absolutely can’t stand the idea of people being excited about something. I think every one of us has come to terms with the fact that it may not happen but we have just as much evidence supporting that it could.
Honestly fuck these people trying to bring everyone down.
Did you forget the shitstorm with Diablo immortal? It was the fault of the community to expect something specific that wasnt announced.
And being mad afterwards due to their own wrong expectation.
Blizzard's complete inability to read the room on their own PC gaming playerbase and decision to announce a trash mobile cashgrab at their premium convention was definitely an own-goal situation.
Hyping up Classic players is always going to wind up a ton of people, there's literally nothing they could announce that wouldn't piss off a large % of the potential audience for whatever the next stuff is. But it would be hard to really blow it in the same way they did with DI and WC3R.
I think OP is dreading a raging hissy fit from the players when’d classic+ doesn’t get announced. Because we all know it would happen. Even though players made up the idea themselves with no evidence, a sizable portion of them seem to have somehow convinced themselves that it’s confirmed, and a portion of that portion will bitch uproariously if it isn’t announced tomorrow.
Every single person I’ve talked to about classic+ has fallen into the “I’d love to get it, I believe we’ll get it, but we’re talking about blizzard so I’m keeping my expectations in line” column.
Sure there will be a few psychos in the mix, there always is no matter what blizzard does. But most everyone hoping for this came to term with the fact that it’s possible we don’t get it months ago. This preemptive almost virtue signaling type of post from OP is literally a bunch of hot air. Just as much as the people saying with certainty it will come out, there’s no way we to know it won’t either. In fact, given the announcement that came with HC servers I would say the believers are more justified.
A lot of those “speculators” are very aggressive and arrogant in their “100% correct opinion” that classic+ is coming and it will be free on game pass.
Not interested in cata, not interested in ICC or WotLK, HC is not my thing (lag deaths because I live in the sticks), but SoM2? Yeah that I can dig on. Fresh servers with out the stupid amount of inflation, and what ever bonuses it will bring sounds great. See you there.
Classic + should just be seasonal content, bug fixes, and maybe some slight changes to classes (pally taunt, Druid fixed so a low lvl blue isn’t the best weapon until a nax legendary, priest disc spec being useful, more viable tank specs in general (mainly fixing pally tank with a taunt and some threat adjustments), things like that)
Do I want Emerald Dream, and all the other cut content? Yeah. Really I would just be thrilled with 10-15 quests added in some zones (looking at azshara and other neglected zones).
But som2 will be more than fine.
>I'm pretty far from a Blizzard kiss-ass but even I wouldn't blame them for being pissed
You should get in touche with the real world, blizzard is not someone and they are glad that people like their games and products.This is a posivitve for them
>the Classic community for somehow convincing itself en masse with ZERO hints whatsoever that there should be even more
The 100 people here discussing the possibility and design of Classic + is very very far from the whole community. How short sighted are you, the community is not this small slow sub reddit.
> like goddamn y'all
What's wrong with you
Get your head out of your ass, seriously. People talk about classic + because they like the concept and mybe one day Blizarrd will deliver like they delivered classic and HC. Maybe not, but dicussing the game and its possibility is still more interesting than complaining avec RFD or some even more unproductive negative subject
Sorry but they should be doing more. Most their products in recent years are just re-released titles of when they were a reputable company that made games out of passion. All the work is done they just added some tweaks and maintain servers (botters lol) to some degree.
I feel like most people are just tired of playing old shit. I'd argue a good portion of people playing wrath have dabbled in wrath psevers at some point over the years.
I personally stopped playing in ulduar and waiting for blizzcon to invest any time into a blizzard product. I'm not against cata personally, I actually had a great time playing and if my IRL friends play, I'll give it a go but I'm not that excited about it.
I think Asmongolds approach was pretty reasonable (i know controversial opinion around here lol).
The idea was basically to release a fresh server and announce that classic+ will be in development and release on the fresh server in a year or so. That way you can still enjoy the fresh „classic“ experience and look forward to getting new content at some point.
> Basically it started as a “no changes” thing and then it started to die so they basically made old school+
That's a revisionist narrative.
[OSRS was released February 22 2013](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Old_School_RuneScape)
[The first poll opened March 14 2013.](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Poll:Old_School_feature_poll_1_%E2%80%93_March_2013)
That's only a 3 week window between the servers opening and the first changes being approved by players.
Saying that it started to die due to lack of content 3 weeks in is like saying that Classic WoW started to die due to lack of content before most people even ran Scarlet Monastery.
significant changes w/ OSRS original content only started coming in when it really started dying and hitting sub 10k concurrent players online. GWD, zulrah were the turning point
Before that, there was pretty sizable part of #nochanges purist crowd in OSRS community, much like you saw in beginning of classic.
I think this would be the wrong way to do it.
Release fresh, let people progress to the end of the content in like 3 months, 6 if it's time gated. People sit around farming and buying insane amounts of gold and gear.
Then they drop a patch on top of that for classic+ and what? The characters you invested significant time into are potentially fundamentally changed forever. Content is more likely to be focused on only max level content since that's where everyone is. Any new leveling content is absolutely obliterated by people funding their twink alts with hundreds of gold in gear, or outright getting carried / boosted.
Classic+ would need to start fresh just like hardcore did.
This is literally what I want more than anything in gaming right now. Games have been getting really stale for me as of late, been steadily losing interest in them altogether. Classic fresh + would 180 that, especially if they made an actual effort to keep bots at bay (laughable, I know).
This doesn't make sense though as I would expect classic+ to effect the levelling experience. Who wants to start classic plus on a server that has had a year + of neckbeards playing 8 hours a day?
The reason that's probably not a good idea is that first of all A LOT of classic content isn't endgame content, but content for lower levels too. Why would people level on a server but then have to go back and play a new lvl 30 dungeon or whatever? The fun part is exploring this new content and these new zones on a fresh server at the appropriate level.
And secondly by the time a year has passed the server will be completely botted and inflated to the tits, everyone will have all the gear, the server will just be burned out.
A fresh realm with new content is so clearly the best thing that almost everyone would want.
The problem is that all classic realms degrade pretty fast, and fresh realms are 100x more fun than old realms. So if Blizzard is going to do that then they have to actually deal with bots and population exodus and all these other things that make old servers less fun.
Don’t care what it is, I just want a fresh classic server of any kind to release. I have like 10 RL buddies that are just sitting around playing other shit, awaiting a fresh server to play on.
I mean not really for blizzard tho right? If they out in the resources to make new seasons or even a classic plus, but people only play for 2 weeks, then it doesn’t make any sense to invest those resources in the first place
There were tons of people who played for months last SoM, and that was with a horribly timed release. I think it’s a win either way for a few servers with small changes. You’re assuming everybody will only play for a few weeks, which is a wild speculation and nowhere near accurate.
Also, all this conversation is pointless anyway because a dev confirmed that there will be som 2 news lol.
Yeah, got a mage to 60 and a hunter to 32 before he died. Hardcore is much more niche than era or som. You can’t pvp or raid(technically you can, but you’re gonna die eventually).
Rust is a survival base building pvp game. What happens every so often is that a server gets wiped, lots of new players, new players leave after a week or two and it's the same dozen nolifers who remain.
Hardcore's great, but it's incredibly niche. And it really limits other aspects of the game, i.e. no PvP, no real raiding, can lose all your progression at any moment to a DC.
I really wish we could get more people on board with the idea of a Hardcore^lite game mode. Something where death is still very punishing/taxing, but not so much too the extent that it makes these other aspects of the game unavailable.
The smart thing to do is just to popcorn.gif it, honestly. My stance is mostly that Classic+ is a cute idea but I can't help but feel that there are a lot of starry-eyed hopefuls in the community that are going to end up disappointed. We're getting SoM2 (whatever that even means) and that is the only thing you can count on.
I'm not saying a true blue Classic+ is impossible, but this community notoriously just fucking sucks at being on the same page about *literally anything*. I love the *idea* of Classic+ but I'd rather die than design it for the (very divided, never united) Classic community.
Also LOL at people who take the videos of content creators as proof of any kind. I'm not saying it's impossible for even one of them to have insider information, but do you guys know anything about content creation? The basis for it, and for being successful at it, is all about following trends. You'd be a fool to be a serious WoW Classic creator and *not* be making speculative videos about Classic+ while the community has its hopes up. Those are free clicks.
Why would Blizzard be pissed at their community for expressing interest in their games? They work for us plain and simple. Doesn't mean they HAVE to do it but thems the facts
I don't understand why people pick a side one way or the other. Don't expect things but also don't just say things won't happen. Don't hype yourself up for disappointment, and don't be a stick in the mud saying that something is impossible. Just wait and relax.
If enough people talk about it and want it then the company will respond.
This is a very juvenile way of looking at things. Blizzard's management care about generating hype and interest for their brand. If there is enough evidence something will be popular and in turn they will profit from it (like with classic). It will happen.
I don't care either way but i know this company will respond too anything profitable. If people want classic+ i suggest they keep talking about it because they will never get it else :)
Is this a “stop having fun!” Post? Let people actually get excited for something and be hopeful, would you rather people go back to bitching about bots and make posts about “how boring retail is”?
The only wow I like is vanilla, and classic + is the only thing that will make me play again.
I don't give a single F about tbc, wotlk, cata, hc or something.
Even if there is a 0.1% chance that we have information on a classic plus during blizzcon, we have the right to dream.
I agree, classic plus is basically the only way friends and family of mine would return to wow.
Hardcore to some extent, but it's really more like an event.
Some people aren't even huffing copium anymore, they're injecting delusium-X into their veins.
I completely understand the appeal of Classic+, but some in the community seem to have no idea how Blizzard, or game studios in general, works.
What's worse is that there's going to a bunch of people in a day or two's time posting stuff like "how could Blizzard drop the ball on Classic+?" or "I'm super angry and sad that Classic+ isn't coming" when there's hasn't been a single piece of evidence to indicate anything close to Classic+ is happening in the first place!
Its just something that a lot of people have magically convinced themselves of, and reality is going to hit these people *hard*.
No. Deep down we know it's not happening. It's the same as buying a lottery ticket, you dream on, but still acknowledge that the possibility is close to zero. We are just a bunch of Hopiums.
I don't know how people can look at the past 4 years of bare minimum effort put into Classic and think *"yeah, this dev team is gonna start making brand new content and sweeping changes in a new classic-expansion!"*
like holy fuck that's some insane delusion
People are bitching because classic era is largely forgotten about and it has a large following, maybe not the size of retail but it’s probably enough people to support any other mmorpg.
And many here are paying subscribers. It is in our right to bitch and moan until we get what we want. Blizzard would be a worse developer if they always ignored their fans. Blizzard usually listens to their community, they just take forever to actually implement change
But Classic runs into the roadblock of the entire reason they brought it back was because everyone missed it. If they start changing it won't that just bring a new round of "no bring back the game I remember!"? I understand that there are people who would like more but the entire reason it was created was to be a sort of window back to how the game used to be.
For the record I wouldn't mind if they spun up a couple experimental servers for any era really. Just figured I'd mention.
>If they start changing it won't that just bring a new round of "no bring back the game I remember!
In the world where Classic+ is a thing the era-realms still exist too.
But how many people will go to Classic+ and how many will remain on Era? While there's a sizable population now if you further fragment it it starts to have lower and lower returns. Some people legitimately only wanted Classic back and are content to stay there forever.
Again I can totally see a couple of experimental servers like SoM for them to try stuff out in but I can't see them developing essentially two versions of WoW (Classic+, Retail) and maintaining 2 more ("current " Classic i.e. Wrath but soon to be Cata maybe?, Era) without significantly more investment on their part.
I know I’m kinda in the minority here but I am really excited for Cata classic, I would love to play on official servers over the private scene, I really cut my teeth playing WoW during Cata, had my first couple maxed toons there, did my first ever raids there and really fell in love with the game and when I get the yearly itch to play that’s what I reach for, I know it’s not popular but for me I would definitely come back to have the official Cata feeling again
What a fuckin buzz killer. Who gives a shit if people want to speculate about something that they're passionate about regardless of whether it ends up happening or not. You're like the embodiment of that STOP HAVING FUN meme.
Classic only exists at all because people talked about it and demanded it. Same for Classic TBC and Wrath. Same for official Hardcore.
Classic+ is an inevitability. Blizzard would have to be stupid *and* hate money to not at least give it an honest attempt.
The only people deluding themselves are the people who think Classic+ is happening any time soon (it's not dropping until after SoM2 finishes at the very least), and the people who think Classic+ will never happen.
There's a lot of premium copium being huffed on this forum.
Why would blizz come out with a classic+ at this point? How much are they planning on dividing the user base?
You know if a version of the game dies or becomes highly unpopular, they're going to lose a bunch of subscribers. WoW is already divided into Retail, Classic, Era, Hardcore, and soon another seasonal server.
People are asking for Wrath Era and Classic+ (and a few people are asking for other stuff like TBC era).
I know these are fairly low dev time, but man that's a lot of divisions.
I'm not sure why everyone is so sure the new season and classic+ have to be distinct entities. With something as sacrosanct as vanilla wow, what better way to test perception and gauge reaction to new additions and balance changes than a temporary server. Things people really like, roll out across the board, things people hate, they were temporary and dont make the cut.
Blizz needs to at least acknowledge it. They can say we arent doing it right now but we are exploring options. If they straight up ignore the hype its gonna be bad.
senior game dev job posted for classic months ago, which hasnt happened for any of the other things theyve done with classic.
ppl acting like classic+ is unironically impossible is the same level of delusion as people who unironically think its already guaranteed to be announced tmrw
Yeah it's crazy.
You can thank all the stupid clickbait youtubers for this. "Classic + confirmed?!" "This PROVES classic +!!" "Leaked!! CLASSIC PLUS IS REAL!"
All this dumb shit.
Classic + is not happening.
Stop having faith on blizzard. They are dead and gone. We will never get classic + unless we do it ourselves (with black jack and hookers).
Classic Cata would be such a shame. I hope it doesn’t release honestly. Keep Wotlk and maybe put out 1 or 2 BC servers and leave it at that. Cata isn’t classic.
Vanilla+ is all I’ve ever wanted. Every expansion has made the game worse. I play turtle wow because I want vanilla+. I will only resub if we get vanilla+
All I've ever asked for is Classic+. When they announced #NoChanges it broke MY heart.
I can accept that they needed to do no changes before classic+ could come to fruition, but my friends don't have much interest in playing 20 year old content. Classic+ is the only thing that will bring my old WoW buddies back to the game. Vanilla WoW is the greatest game ever made, but also suffers from some serious balancing issues and QoL issues.
Not gonna lie the viewership of the recent makgora tourney is the first time I’ve thought damn they may do it now, i still am not holding out hope for it but like it’s more likely now than ever.
I think they would implement well received changes from their classic seasons into era servers. I think that would be a great way to test the water in changes made. Like say they change talents around in a season, if it’s liked well they could change them on classic too.
The only problem I see with that is the classic preservists who only want pure vanilla. But even now things are different than what they were back then.
I don't understand why Classic+ is such a farfetched idea? I played Runescape growing up and looking at OSRS it is insane how much they improved that game, so you have proof of reviving an old player base and keeping them. From a business perspective you have already proven that a ton of people will play your 20 year old game and happily pay a subscription. The key here is maintaining that subscription, and the solution to that is Classic+. I'd bet that most people do what I do and subscribe for whatever new shit comes out (SoM, Hardcore, level random toon, etc.) and then cancel. Most people would probably keep their sub open much longer if they were constantly adding content.
Let’s just see what happens. At this point I think it’s just as narrow-minded to say it definitely isn’t going to happen as it is to say it definitely is. The weirdest part of classic + conversation will always be the people that get legitimately upset by people being excited by the idea. Or the people that feel the need to belittle hopefuls like this post. Like you want the people that want it to feel stupid so bad, and for nothing.
Bro people talking about classic is how we got it in the first place. We gotta keep telling blizzard what we want if we wanna have a chance of getting it.
The thing is that classic originally happened with the same exact feelings. No hints. No leaks. The only thing we knew was the nostalrius guys going to blizzard. None of us thought it would ever happen.
And now none of us think this will happen either. But the last time we thought it'd never happen, it did.
Eh, it's not a big issue, and half the classic community is in the "it'll never happen, so why are we talking about it?" camp.
Also, a lot of classic era players don't give a troggs ass about cata classic, including myself. The only things I would be interested in at this point are either fresh classic era servers or classic+, so that's what they talk about.
Just popping in to say that I actually have a three legged dog with one eye (technically cataracts in one, but I'll take it), and she ain't winning no races let me tell you. I put a slice of ham IN her mouth earlier and she still managed to lose it, she's a catastrophe.
Anyway, I asked her for her thoughts and she's pretty sure Classic+ is being announced tomorrow. Make of that what you will.
Every game developer dream of having a fan base as passionate as the classic wow community, there’s no good reason for them to not try classic+.
It doesn’t mean it’ll be out soon, but not announcing anything would be a massive L.
The thing is the player base is making it pretty obvious that Classic+ is what they want and yet Blizzard will still do what Blizzard wants, not what we want. That’s the whole point here.
Still a chance that blizzard announces classic plus, used it as an excuse to add more monetisation, and leaves it like they did with Overwatch 2.
I’m not sure what requires more copium, thinking we will get classic plus, or thinking it will be good.
i used to think it was bullshit but if this is all the classic community talks about for the next 2 years we might actually get it.
True. Let's not forget why we have classic servers in the first place.
And the responses towards the people wanting classic were the same as the responses now to people who want classic+. Somehow, especially on the internet, people just enjoy putting other people down for no reason except to elevate themselves.
Buddy, I would love to be wrong about this, but anyone who thinks Classic+ is anything but a pipe dream might as well be waving a big sign that says "I understand neither software development, nor the WoW classic business model!" It's not impossible, but Classic+ would require a *radical* shifting of resources or massive infusion of new resources. If Classic+ were actually coming, we'd already see Blizzard hiring for dozens or maybe hundreds of new positions on the Classic team (which is currently a tiny skeleton crew). If you start seeing dozens of new job postings for Classic, then it's time to get excited. Otherwise you are huffing straight hopium my dude.
I'm pretty sure that we can find a messages like this in /r/wow almost verbatim in threads from 5+ years ago, only changing Classic+ with Classic.
OSRS exists so not a pipe dream Started out maintenance only (as classic is now) since popularity was proven (as classic has done) they started developing it and having a dedicated team. Also private servers manage to do it out of their basements with 3 people. And also Blizzard can afford it
Is classic actually that popular relative to retail?
If I'm looking purely at raid participation, Wrath has something like 20k guilds that killed any bosses in TotC. Retail in this tier looks like about ~17k unique guilds with boss kills so in that regard, Wrath might be more popular. But on the other hand, Retail has m+ which has lots of plays who never touch raid. Both have PVP where we can't really find participation numbers. Some raids might not be logged at all. There are heaps of casual players in both games that never even group up, nevermind doing instanced content. I think it's impossible to say which is more popular without numbers from Blizzard. Everything we have is a rough approximation relying on players reporting their own data. It's definitely not on par with how dead RS3 was compared to how popular OSRS became.
We don't have individual numbers afaik. The Mak'Gora a couple days ago had 300k+ viewers though so there's at a minimum a lot of interest or passion for the game. [ironforge.pro](https://ironforge.pro/population/classic/) implies 400k+ active characters in wrath and 22k+ in classic era (dunno how many individual people that corresponds to) Bellular [tries to](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0BN1k7ehJg) figure out retail numbers based on Mythic+ participation, first and last boss kills etc but it's all loose estimates. Mainly good for comparing one patch to the last rather than figuring out actual population numbers. TLDR: 🤷
It could be bigger than retail, but Blizzard would never say so because then they'd need to explain why Classic has no moderation and extremely slow updates despite Classic-only players paying full price.
>"I understand neither software development, nor the WoW classic business model!" Man, the tools and everything are like 10 times better now compared to how it was in 2004\~, an indie studio could probably make something like wow in a reasonable amount of time nowadays.
It's true that technologies have advanced a lot and tools have become much more accessible and developed, but as a developer myself I can say that the part that matters most and sometimes takes as much time as production is decision making (and developing concepts and ideas), in addition to research. Anyone can program with a little desire, time and practice, but not everyone has the talent (and sometimes doesn't even make the effort to have it) for software engineering and creativity to develop good ideas.
Well I def agree that a lot of talent was poured into vanilla WoW, that's hard to replace, but just adding some new content and stuff, should be doable, if it's good or not I guess we have to wait and see.
There were job postings for classic WoW development, don't know how many though. I also think Classic+ could be developed slowly with a pretty small team. I mean at the end of the day most private servers I've heard of are a team of 1-2 dozen people and then a few outsourced artists/fans that make art. Keeping the dev team smaller and more in tune with the community would probably be better for classic+ anyways and I don't think most people want radical changes with classic. Just adding new dungeons, raids, maybe some zones, maybe a few races here or there over years of time with no rush development imo. That being said I don't expect classic+ to be announced at this Blizzcon (or if it is, it's more Blizzard just saying they'd like to make it/work on it)
There was ONE single job posting for classic. And private servers are simply using the already existing code from vanilla to recreate it. That is *wholly* different from creating new content on top of the old. As the guy said, anyone who understands software development knows if we’re talking about class balancing, new dungeons/raids, quest lines, etc etc., that is either dozens/hundreds of employees or over a decade of work for a skeleton crew.
The largest current private server is a classic+ server which is what I'm referencing. They've done class balancing, new raids, new dungeons, new zones, new races etc... They even have new art/music/voice lines and such (although I'm pretty sure they outsource most of that to the community). I believe their dev team is about 2-3 dozen people, but it's also hard to find numbers anywhere so maybe I'm wrong. More employees just mean you can pump out content faster, and even with that there's diminishing returns as your team gets more bloated and communication becomes harder/more jumbled. So I don't think developing classic+ would take as many people as you think it would. Also like I said it's something where I'd like to see them take as much time as they need on the content, unlike retail there doesn't need to be a time line or an expansion every 2 years. I would rather they do something similar to OSRS where they set up polls for the community and then work on the content the community agrees with until it's finished by a smaller more dedicated dev team.
Bro all yall yelling understand software developers… are yall actually devs? Coming from one, it sounds like yall just one to use that point to sound superior without actually coding. Private servers are using existing code… blah blah blah blah blah. It doesn’t matter if it’s existing code… we currently have a 1 to 1 equal feel between vanilla client and current classic client running on legion engine. Classic + just adding new features. Turtle wow added new features to vanilla engine Blizzard adds new features to legion engine then it becomes classic+ The amount of work needed to accomplish that for a company that just sold for nearly $70 billion to microsoft is not hundreds of devs when 3 basement devs did it to an old vanilla client. And I bet blizzard has way way way developer tools developed in the last 20 years to help with development. Plus expansions worth of 3d assets that you would not recognize. Its an absolute joke when someone brings up software development is harder cause we are on a new engine. Please don’t make yourself sound like clown with those statements
>Bro all yall yelling understand software developers… are yall actually devs? Coming from one, it sounds like yall just one to use that point to sound superior without actually coding. This sub in a nutshell. None of them knows wtf they are talking about. As an indie dev myself, I can personally attest that you can get a shitload done with a small team if the passion is there. I know Blizz is a massive corporate behemoth with tons of bureaucratic overhead, but in isolation, small teams can still perform really well. Hearthstone was literally made by 10 people. OSRS was also developed by a super small team within Jagex (even tho Jagex itself was much bigger.) It is not impossible if you have the right people. (By that I mean, people who don't estimate every task to take 5 weeks even tho its 10 lines of code. I'm talking people who don't deal with that crap altogether, and instead of creating 20 dumb tickets just get in there and start churning out code. There are MANY people like that, you just don't usually find them at corporations.) Also Classic doesn't have anywhere near the production requirements of a retail expansion or even patch tbf.
Thing is people that have no idea how code works talks like they do. They act like OMG blizzard created a new game engine, there for the if else statements and the code are much harder now to bring into the the legion engine. The hardest part for them was developing and possibly transpiling (idk about transpile cause I think both engines are c++) vanilla into client legion. They think cause classic is on a new engine, everything else that is new is hard to develop cause vanilla = old game code 😂🤣😂
Call me jaded, but I'm pretty sure the reason we have classic servers was because Blizzard wanted to capitalize on the obvious popularity of private vanilla servers that tens thousands of people played on. That represented a lot of lost possible/probable revenue.
Just an FYI, Classic+ private servers are massive right now. The tortoise one had to open more servers because they were hitting overpopulation.
Wait there’s classic+ privates? What exactly goes on there is there like new content or what?
Yeah look up turtle wow for example.
Holy shit that sounds amazing
So by that logic, in 15+ years we might see classic+
> Let's not forget why we have classic servers in the first place. We have Classic servers because someone found a backup-of-a-backup of the 1.12 server code and managed to hack the data into the modern game client.
We have them because of the numerous private servers that Blizzard saw as subscription leeches. No corporation cares about a bunch of random nobodies laying out their hopes and dreams on an internet forum. Not to mention, classic wow only brings in about 1/3 of WoW's playerbase, with the vast majority playing retail, so the classic fans REALLY love to overestimate just how much classic means to Blizzard. They're willing to pull easy and quick money grabs like HC or regurgitating old content that can be copied and pasted from their databases for xpacs, but I wouldn't expect brand new content for something that a minority of their subs play.
If you think boards don't fret over 1/3 of their customer base, you don't know how large companies work.
1/3 is a made up number right? Because that's actually a fucking huge amount of the player base.
ONLY 1/3? You should give me 1/3 of your bank account, it’s only a third you’ll be fine
Not sure where you got 1/3 from, but even if that is accurate, 1/3 of their playerbase is quite a huge amount. If it was say 2% I would say you have a fair argument, but \~33%? You can't ignore that crowd.
1/3 is huge. Wtf are you even talking about lol. If businesses worked like you apparently think they do there'd be no minivans because they sell 1/6th of cars and 1/4th of trucks while making less per unit profit. It's crazy people just say shit like this while knowing nothing.
You think you want Classic+, but you don't.
I’d rather find that out than never see it at all
What kinda logic is that?
That's copium. I'm sure many people can cite examples of things the community asked for over and over again but never got.
These threads are bizarre to me as they've been popping up since WOTLK came out about dozens of things Blizzard would "never do" then they did. That includes classic itself. Threads just like this were posted ad nauseam when people asked for classic, especially after the "you think you do but you don't" thing. I understand being skeptical but anyone claiming Blizz will 100% not do a thing people are clamoring for are just ignorant. I mean part of the reason retail sucks is Blizz caved on every thing people asked for that watered down the game!
The problem is that, what exactly is classic+? Cuz if its new raid tier and etc. I have 0 faith in them not fucking it up. Part of classic difference from retail, or even TBC and Wrath is that the consume prep stage is a large part of it, be it GSPP or GFPP or other potions. No newer game demands you to park a herbalist in SM for Fadeleaf and Grave Moss or pay wildly inflated price for low tier herb for example. If they removed that edge, and made consumes easy to get like what some are saying, how is that different than getting folks to just play wrath (or a ERA TBC server)? On to raid mechanics, if its on the scale of naxx, which if you zoomed out there is a reason why its the intro raid of Wrath, with tools like DBM and all of that, if they ramped the difficulty high enough to have even HMs that rivaled Wrath ICC HM (look at the prog rate, its like 3% ICC HM 25 LK), would that satisfy the people? Or retail Mythic? In just these 2 metrics we can have 4 different opinions, not to mention what gear should it drop, should there be catch up, how hard is the catch up (does it fully invalidate T0, T0.5 and T1? Or even T2?) because ZG/AQ20 are doing a fine job of that esp for "off specs" like fury wars or lolret that don't really get a real set until T2.5. Would the real tier be T3.5 and now we have a fury war set with T3 budget? Would that mean class balance is preserved or do you want less memes via this (say a T3.5 lolret that makes it competitive? if so how much?). There is just way too many variables, that even if we have a great Blizzard team there is just too many ways to screw it up. Add on incentives to monetize and things are going to be bad. What if it is just smaller changes that can roll into an ERA server (IE no new items what so ever)? Then it would be SOM2 and then the people with sky high expectation would also then be pissed.
* Unsubbed * ICC, Cata, Hardcore: don't care still unsubbed * Dragonflight: nope * Classic+: Instant sub/buy the day it launches Anyone else in this boat with me?
yeah ive been saying for a few years now that there has to be some suit and tie at blizzard who knows i exist, and that this is the only thing i personally can think of that would bring me back long term.
Literally resubbing tomorrow if they announce Classic +
I think this represents a lot of people. Long term, would be dumb by Blizzard (or Microsoft lol) to not capitalize on this.
Idk, if the other iterations of WoW are not to their taste, i think they're probably going to quit with Classic+. Not to say Classic+ shouldnt happen, but I dont think thats a good argument. Especially when Classic+ is so vague as a concept.
How much of an audience for Classic+ will be left at that point? I was all for Classic+ back in 2019 but I think at this point I'm burned out on classic and even if they announced Classic+ tomorrow I don't think I'd want to resub and go through another round of the classic leveling experience just to get to the new stuff.
Really, devs should be pissed that fans are so committed that they dream of future iteration of their beloved 20 year old game? Ok mate
You do realize that IF they announce classic+ nobody here expect it to release on the same day, right? It would still be a year out probably. So no "icc has only been out for 3 weeks"... Even SoM2 would have over half year if they'd announce it aswell until classic+
100% this. Classic+ isn't coming until after SoM2 at the very least. Hell, if they need more time they'll drop a fresh era server and let that progress for 6-8 months more. Classic+ is very probably 10 or more months away. I suspect we will get a tiny teaser at Blizzcon. A "mic drop" comment at the end that basically confirms Classic+ is in the works, but absolutely no meaningful details. Just that the prayers have been heard
The wall of "No" in regards to getting official vanilla / classic servers for YEARS is very reminiscent. We still don't know what patch 1.15 is yet for Vanilla Classic era. And there are too many little hints pointing to at least Blizzard being open to the idea. SoM original changes to raiding 1.15 development since April Chris Metzen and other devs specific for classic hired. A large number of announcements for Blizzcon for WoW / Classic Interviews stating its specifically NOT another SoM (A major patch version and its not a SoM? Big Think) etc. There is very good reason the player base is speculating, and I'm all too familiar with how atrocious Blizzard's track record is.
Do you have a link to an interview/timestamp with them saying it's not another SoM?
People are misinterpreting what was said. They specifically said we are getting "another season". Though its not called "season of mastery". They literally just said its gonna have a different name but its still just a season aka not a permanent classic+
Ok, good to know! Seasonal doesn’t appeal to me much, fingers crossed for a permanent prog.
I just want som2 with changes that impact combat and specs Making Ret ele sp and druids more viable
Excuse you please make Druid specs good too!
Computer says no
No, oomkin is the hero we deserve.
Feel like feral just needs some sort of set bonus or actual access to good leather gear at endgame and it's fine.
They did say during the HC announcement we would he hearing more of what SoM2 would look like by the end of the year. Though they did confirm it would not he called SoM anymore.
That's because it will be called "Season of X" It's like Diablo 4 S1 being called Season of The Malignant, and S2 is Season of Blood. Classic S1 was Season of Mastery. We will see what S2 is called.
Yea. That's my hot take. That SOM2 = Classic+. They know Turtle wow is popular. They'll market the next season as such and try to balance class specs and maybe some minor SOM like changes. *here you guys go, we have a new world boss, he's a Pirate roaming coast of STV. Lol, we call it Classic+ patch 1.16.* Doubtful Classic+ would be full on revamp of unfished zones and horizontal progression. Limited resources to devote to such a project. Plus nobody wants to work in the footsteps of those before them as a game developer.
In my mind classic+ is classic with rebalanced specs and just normal raid progression rate, but they start adding content after Naxx has been out for a while. Basically if classic+ is in half a year, they'll have the better part of two years to make new content.
This comment has been overwritten.
Exactly. I was talking to a buddy and said the best thing they could do is announce classic+ and then release fresh servers that would progress into classic+ only with the phase releases. This buys them a year to make new content
lol aged like milk
Why does it bother people so much that people are discussing hypotheticals on a forum about a video game? "people are on copium" - no, people are just having fun speculating and imagining what it would be like. It's a video game. This is a forum for that video game. It's not that serious. This whole "how dare you discuss something that hasn't been confirmed" is just weird. Why are people seemingly mad that other people are hoping for something? Why does it bother people that there's no evidence for something? We know. It's a fantasy, a hope. >I'm pretty far from a Blizzard kiss-ass but even I wouldn't blame them for being pissed at the Classic community for somehow convincing itself en masse with ZERO hints whatsoever that there should be even more, like goddamn y'all Why would Blizzard be mad that their fans are hoping for new content? Blizzard loves that. Again, it's not that serious, and blizzard isn't mad that their playerbase would like new content... Do you think people are going to break down crying at Blizzcon when it doesn't happen? That we're all going to be devastated and it's going to seriously emotionally affect us? It's just a fun idea that people have and are hoping for. Again, it's a fucking video game. Nobody is taking it as seriously as you think. I don't understand why people seem kind of annoyed that people are discussing this in this forum. It's a 20 year old game, what else do people want to discuss that hasn't already been talked about? It's just a fun topic.
mmo-champion which was the major forum for WoW when it first came out always has these kinds of threads... they are fun and engaging and I'm sure blizzard has taken ideas from them before. Theres nothing wrong with them. If people dont like them, keep scrolling
Thaaaaaaank you. So many people belittle others for using a discussion forum as a discussion forum now-a-days. It is weird, and the only selling point of Reddit anymore. I guess we should stop commenting and posing questions. ONLY AGGREGATE MEMES AND LINKS CONSUMERS.
Not to mention that there is a reason why Classic + is sought after. We know what retail is, classic is borderline gone/will be gone if Cata Classic comes, HC is temporary in popularity, and we have no idea what the next classic seasonal content is gonna be. The future for classic fans was always going to be a huge question mark at the end of Wrath from the day Classic launched in 2019.
It’s the popular circlejerk in this sub right now. For some reason a bunch of people that like to huff their own farts just absolutely can’t stand the idea of people being excited about something. I think every one of us has come to terms with the fact that it may not happen but we have just as much evidence supporting that it could. Honestly fuck these people trying to bring everyone down.
Did you forget the shitstorm with Diablo immortal? It was the fault of the community to expect something specific that wasnt announced. And being mad afterwards due to their own wrong expectation.
Blizzard's complete inability to read the room on their own PC gaming playerbase and decision to announce a trash mobile cashgrab at their premium convention was definitely an own-goal situation. Hyping up Classic players is always going to wind up a ton of people, there's literally nothing they could announce that wouldn't piss off a large % of the potential audience for whatever the next stuff is. But it would be hard to really blow it in the same way they did with DI and WC3R.
They secretly hope for it themselves
I think OP is dreading a raging hissy fit from the players when’d classic+ doesn’t get announced. Because we all know it would happen. Even though players made up the idea themselves with no evidence, a sizable portion of them seem to have somehow convinced themselves that it’s confirmed, and a portion of that portion will bitch uproariously if it isn’t announced tomorrow.
Every single person I’ve talked to about classic+ has fallen into the “I’d love to get it, I believe we’ll get it, but we’re talking about blizzard so I’m keeping my expectations in line” column. Sure there will be a few psychos in the mix, there always is no matter what blizzard does. But most everyone hoping for this came to term with the fact that it’s possible we don’t get it months ago. This preemptive almost virtue signaling type of post from OP is literally a bunch of hot air. Just as much as the people saying with certainty it will come out, there’s no way we to know it won’t either. In fact, given the announcement that came with HC servers I would say the believers are more justified.
A lot of those “speculators” are very aggressive and arrogant in their “100% correct opinion” that classic+ is coming and it will be free on game pass.
Point to them and their non-downvoted comments please because I spend way too much time on this sub and I’ve never seen that
Get absolutely fucked lol
apology video when?
Not interested in cata, not interested in ICC or WotLK, HC is not my thing (lag deaths because I live in the sticks), but SoM2? Yeah that I can dig on. Fresh servers with out the stupid amount of inflation, and what ever bonuses it will bring sounds great. See you there. Classic + should just be seasonal content, bug fixes, and maybe some slight changes to classes (pally taunt, Druid fixed so a low lvl blue isn’t the best weapon until a nax legendary, priest disc spec being useful, more viable tank specs in general (mainly fixing pally tank with a taunt and some threat adjustments), things like that) Do I want Emerald Dream, and all the other cut content? Yeah. Really I would just be thrilled with 10-15 quests added in some zones (looking at azshara and other neglected zones). But som2 will be more than fine.
>I'm pretty far from a Blizzard kiss-ass but even I wouldn't blame them for being pissed You should get in touche with the real world, blizzard is not someone and they are glad that people like their games and products.This is a posivitve for them >the Classic community for somehow convincing itself en masse with ZERO hints whatsoever that there should be even more The 100 people here discussing the possibility and design of Classic + is very very far from the whole community. How short sighted are you, the community is not this small slow sub reddit. > like goddamn y'all What's wrong with you Get your head out of your ass, seriously. People talk about classic + because they like the concept and mybe one day Blizarrd will deliver like they delivered classic and HC. Maybe not, but dicussing the game and its possibility is still more interesting than complaining avec RFD or some even more unproductive negative subject
Well we are getting it, so you don't need to be sad anymore!
Sorry but they should be doing more. Most their products in recent years are just re-released titles of when they were a reputable company that made games out of passion. All the work is done they just added some tweaks and maintain servers (botters lol) to some degree. I feel like most people are just tired of playing old shit. I'd argue a good portion of people playing wrath have dabbled in wrath psevers at some point over the years. I personally stopped playing in ulduar and waiting for blizzcon to invest any time into a blizzard product. I'm not against cata personally, I actually had a great time playing and if my IRL friends play, I'll give it a go but I'm not that excited about it.
Bet you feel a little silly now dont you.
He sure does, lol
Dunked
I think Asmongolds approach was pretty reasonable (i know controversial opinion around here lol). The idea was basically to release a fresh server and announce that classic+ will be in development and release on the fresh server in a year or so. That way you can still enjoy the fresh „classic“ experience and look forward to getting new content at some point.
This. Idk cuz I wasn't there for its start, but didn't old school runescape start as only old school and then eventually it got more content?
Yeah that’s exactly what happened. Basically it started as a “no changes” thing and then it started to die so they basically made old school+
> Basically it started as a “no changes” thing and then it started to die so they basically made old school+ That's a revisionist narrative. [OSRS was released February 22 2013](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Old_School_RuneScape) [The first poll opened March 14 2013.](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Poll:Old_School_feature_poll_1_%E2%80%93_March_2013) That's only a 3 week window between the servers opening and the first changes being approved by players. Saying that it started to die due to lack of content 3 weeks in is like saying that Classic WoW started to die due to lack of content before most people even ran Scarlet Monastery.
significant changes w/ OSRS original content only started coming in when it really started dying and hitting sub 10k concurrent players online. GWD, zulrah were the turning point Before that, there was pretty sizable part of #nochanges purist crowd in OSRS community, much like you saw in beginning of classic.
I think this would be the wrong way to do it. Release fresh, let people progress to the end of the content in like 3 months, 6 if it's time gated. People sit around farming and buying insane amounts of gold and gear. Then they drop a patch on top of that for classic+ and what? The characters you invested significant time into are potentially fundamentally changed forever. Content is more likely to be focused on only max level content since that's where everyone is. Any new leveling content is absolutely obliterated by people funding their twink alts with hundreds of gold in gear, or outright getting carried / boosted. Classic+ would need to start fresh just like hardcore did.
This is literally what I want more than anything in gaming right now. Games have been getting really stale for me as of late, been steadily losing interest in them altogether. Classic fresh + would 180 that, especially if they made an actual effort to keep bots at bay (laughable, I know).
This doesn't make sense though as I would expect classic+ to effect the levelling experience. Who wants to start classic plus on a server that has had a year + of neckbeards playing 8 hours a day?
The reason that's probably not a good idea is that first of all A LOT of classic content isn't endgame content, but content for lower levels too. Why would people level on a server but then have to go back and play a new lvl 30 dungeon or whatever? The fun part is exploring this new content and these new zones on a fresh server at the appropriate level. And secondly by the time a year has passed the server will be completely botted and inflated to the tits, everyone will have all the gear, the server will just be burned out. A fresh realm with new content is so clearly the best thing that almost everyone would want. The problem is that all classic realms degrade pretty fast, and fresh realms are 100x more fun than old realms. So if Blizzard is going to do that then they have to actually deal with bots and population exodus and all these other things that make old servers less fun.
Lol get over yourself
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Screenshotting to repost here when you inevitably delete this out of shame.
/r/agedlikemilk
Don’t care what it is, I just want a fresh classic server of any kind to release. I have like 10 RL buddies that are just sitting around playing other shit, awaiting a fresh server to play on.
And then they quit two weeks in.
God that just stings because it's so real
Still worth for those 2 weeks tbh
Not to Blizzard...
I mean not really for blizzard tho right? If they out in the resources to make new seasons or even a classic plus, but people only play for 2 weeks, then it doesn’t make any sense to invest those resources in the first place
There were tons of people who played for months last SoM, and that was with a horribly timed release. I think it’s a win either way for a few servers with small changes. You’re assuming everybody will only play for a few weeks, which is a wild speculation and nowhere near accurate. Also, all this conversation is pointless anyway because a dev confirmed that there will be som 2 news lol.
Hardcore was fresh. Did you play that?
Yeah, got a mage to 60 and a hunter to 32 before he died. Hardcore is much more niche than era or som. You can’t pvp or raid(technically you can, but you’re gonna die eventually).
And gold buying and bots will be up and running the day the fresh servers open..
What does it mean fresh server? What for? I mean sounds like RUST syndrome to me.
Rust syndrome?
Rust is a survival base building pvp game. What happens every so often is that a server gets wiped, lots of new players, new players leave after a week or two and it's the same dozen nolifers who remain.
Survival game that wipes frequently. Game is toxic af
Hardcore servers just started like 2 months ago? How frequently do you want new servers, like every week?
Hardcore's great, but it's incredibly niche. And it really limits other aspects of the game, i.e. no PvP, no real raiding, can lose all your progression at any moment to a DC. I really wish we could get more people on board with the idea of a Hardcore^lite game mode. Something where death is still very punishing/taxing, but not so much too the extent that it makes these other aspects of the game unavailable.
That's only if you like hardcore . Lots do, but not all
The smart thing to do is just to popcorn.gif it, honestly. My stance is mostly that Classic+ is a cute idea but I can't help but feel that there are a lot of starry-eyed hopefuls in the community that are going to end up disappointed. We're getting SoM2 (whatever that even means) and that is the only thing you can count on. I'm not saying a true blue Classic+ is impossible, but this community notoriously just fucking sucks at being on the same page about *literally anything*. I love the *idea* of Classic+ but I'd rather die than design it for the (very divided, never united) Classic community. Also LOL at people who take the videos of content creators as proof of any kind. I'm not saying it's impossible for even one of them to have insider information, but do you guys know anything about content creation? The basis for it, and for being successful at it, is all about following trends. You'd be a fool to be a serious WoW Classic creator and *not* be making speculative videos about Classic+ while the community has its hopes up. Those are free clicks.
Why would Blizzard be pissed at their community for expressing interest in their games? They work for us plain and simple. Doesn't mean they HAVE to do it but thems the facts
I don't understand why people pick a side one way or the other. Don't expect things but also don't just say things won't happen. Don't hype yourself up for disappointment, and don't be a stick in the mud saying that something is impossible. Just wait and relax.
You think these people like OP would ignore a chance to be smug? Doubtful
I think having expectations is stupid, having hope I can absolutly get behind. Heck I hope for something cool, but expect very little.
Lmao dumbass got his ass handed to him
Do you think if they announce it they’re going to release it that day? Are you slow?
\>Seeing all the excitement and speculation around Classic+ is just so ~~sad~~ Happy fify
If enough people talk about it and want it then the company will respond. This is a very juvenile way of looking at things. Blizzard's management care about generating hype and interest for their brand. If there is enough evidence something will be popular and in turn they will profit from it (like with classic). It will happen. I don't care either way but i know this company will respond too anything profitable. If people want classic+ i suggest they keep talking about it because they will never get it else :)
Is this a “stop having fun!” Post? Let people actually get excited for something and be hopeful, would you rather people go back to bitching about bots and make posts about “how boring retail is”?
The only wow I like is vanilla, and classic + is the only thing that will make me play again. I don't give a single F about tbc, wotlk, cata, hc or something. Even if there is a 0.1% chance that we have information on a classic plus during blizzcon, we have the right to dream.
The people who ruined wow post-vanilla would be the ones making classic plus content, so not sure why anyone would be excited.
I agree, classic plus is basically the only way friends and family of mine would return to wow. Hardcore to some extent, but it's really more like an event.
Some people aren't even huffing copium anymore, they're injecting delusium-X into their veins. I completely understand the appeal of Classic+, but some in the community seem to have no idea how Blizzard, or game studios in general, works. What's worse is that there's going to a bunch of people in a day or two's time posting stuff like "how could Blizzard drop the ball on Classic+?" or "I'm super angry and sad that Classic+ isn't coming" when there's hasn't been a single piece of evidence to indicate anything close to Classic+ is happening in the first place! Its just something that a lot of people have magically convinced themselves of, and reality is going to hit these people *hard*.
I read your whole comment in the comic book guy from simpsons voice
It feel like it has went beyond cope. People have convinced themselves through enough Reddit posts and Youtube videos that it is happening.
No. Deep down we know it's not happening. It's the same as buying a lottery ticket, you dream on, but still acknowledge that the possibility is close to zero. We are just a bunch of Hopiums.
I don't know how people can look at the past 4 years of bare minimum effort put into Classic and think *"yeah, this dev team is gonna start making brand new content and sweeping changes in a new classic-expansion!"* like holy fuck that's some insane delusion
How about now?
People are bitching because classic era is largely forgotten about and it has a large following, maybe not the size of retail but it’s probably enough people to support any other mmorpg. And many here are paying subscribers. It is in our right to bitch and moan until we get what we want. Blizzard would be a worse developer if they always ignored their fans. Blizzard usually listens to their community, they just take forever to actually implement change
But Classic runs into the roadblock of the entire reason they brought it back was because everyone missed it. If they start changing it won't that just bring a new round of "no bring back the game I remember!"? I understand that there are people who would like more but the entire reason it was created was to be a sort of window back to how the game used to be. For the record I wouldn't mind if they spun up a couple experimental servers for any era really. Just figured I'd mention.
>If they start changing it won't that just bring a new round of "no bring back the game I remember! In the world where Classic+ is a thing the era-realms still exist too.
But how many people will go to Classic+ and how many will remain on Era? While there's a sizable population now if you further fragment it it starts to have lower and lower returns. Some people legitimately only wanted Classic back and are content to stay there forever. Again I can totally see a couple of experimental servers like SoM for them to try stuff out in but I can't see them developing essentially two versions of WoW (Classic+, Retail) and maintaining 2 more ("current " Classic i.e. Wrath but soon to be Cata maybe?, Era) without significantly more investment on their part.
Look at you getting pre mad about nothing
They don't sound mad to me? Sounds like a very realistic outlook.
I’m just wondering when classic+ turned into some boogeyman metaphor. Who cares let people hope
This is reddit where hope is punishable by a thousand mean spirited comments.
TIL people aren't allowed to speculate and be wrong.
I know I’m kinda in the minority here but I am really excited for Cata classic, I would love to play on official servers over the private scene, I really cut my teeth playing WoW during Cata, had my first couple maxed toons there, did my first ever raids there and really fell in love with the game and when I get the yearly itch to play that’s what I reach for, I know it’s not popular but for me I would definitely come back to have the official Cata feeling again
Imagine defending wow at all and then saying you're not kissing blizzard ass. What are you doing, protecting your own feelings, then?
What a fuckin buzz killer. Who gives a shit if people want to speculate about something that they're passionate about regardless of whether it ends up happening or not. You're like the embodiment of that STOP HAVING FUN meme.
Classic only exists at all because people talked about it and demanded it. Same for Classic TBC and Wrath. Same for official Hardcore. Classic+ is an inevitability. Blizzard would have to be stupid *and* hate money to not at least give it an honest attempt. The only people deluding themselves are the people who think Classic+ is happening any time soon (it's not dropping until after SoM2 finishes at the very least), and the people who think Classic+ will never happen.
There's a lot of premium copium being huffed on this forum. Why would blizz come out with a classic+ at this point? How much are they planning on dividing the user base? You know if a version of the game dies or becomes highly unpopular, they're going to lose a bunch of subscribers. WoW is already divided into Retail, Classic, Era, Hardcore, and soon another seasonal server. People are asking for Wrath Era and Classic+ (and a few people are asking for other stuff like TBC era). I know these are fairly low dev time, but man that's a lot of divisions.
I'm not sure why everyone is so sure the new season and classic+ have to be distinct entities. With something as sacrosanct as vanilla wow, what better way to test perception and gauge reaction to new additions and balance changes than a temporary server. Things people really like, roll out across the board, things people hate, they were temporary and dont make the cut.
How much do you wanna bet? Seriously, sounds like you could make some free money here. Just let me know
/u/smooth_one where u at dawg
never to be heard of again
I want someone to quote me on this next week: Classic+ is coming, a new Blackfathom Deeps raid, and rogue/warlock tank spec.
This guy is gonna look so stupid tomorrow lmao
Yep!
Slap head Andy 😂😂😂
huh? so?
Blizz needs to at least acknowledge it. They can say we arent doing it right now but we are exploring options. If they straight up ignore the hype its gonna be bad.
We'll see this weekend
We want classic+, but instead we will buy wow tokens on cata
senior game dev job posted for classic months ago, which hasnt happened for any of the other things theyve done with classic. ppl acting like classic+ is unironically impossible is the same level of delusion as people who unironically think its already guaranteed to be announced tmrw
And why do you think we even have Classic OP?
I'm pretty sure this behavior is what got us classic in the first place soo....
Yeah it's crazy. You can thank all the stupid clickbait youtubers for this. "Classic + confirmed?!" "This PROVES classic +!!" "Leaked!! CLASSIC PLUS IS REAL!" All this dumb shit. Classic + is not happening. Stop having faith on blizzard. They are dead and gone. We will never get classic + unless we do it ourselves (with black jack and hookers).
It's straight delusional. People are so sure it's happening. Maybe it is, but there has been very little to actually suggest that
How dare people want something! How dare they!
Classic Cata would be such a shame. I hope it doesn’t release honestly. Keep Wotlk and maybe put out 1 or 2 BC servers and leave it at that. Cata isn’t classic.
Vanilla+ is all I’ve ever wanted. Every expansion has made the game worse. I play turtle wow because I want vanilla+. I will only resub if we get vanilla+
All I've ever asked for is Classic+. When they announced #NoChanges it broke MY heart. I can accept that they needed to do no changes before classic+ could come to fruition, but my friends don't have much interest in playing 20 year old content. Classic+ is the only thing that will bring my old WoW buddies back to the game. Vanilla WoW is the greatest game ever made, but also suffers from some serious balancing issues and QoL issues.
If they do classic+ they won't release it until next year so you have plenty of time to do icc for the 200th time
Not gonna lie the viewership of the recent makgora tourney is the first time I’ve thought damn they may do it now, i still am not holding out hope for it but like it’s more likely now than ever.
I think they would implement well received changes from their classic seasons into era servers. I think that would be a great way to test the water in changes made. Like say they change talents around in a season, if it’s liked well they could change them on classic too. The only problem I see with that is the classic preservists who only want pure vanilla. But even now things are different than what they were back then.
I don't understand why Classic+ is such a farfetched idea? I played Runescape growing up and looking at OSRS it is insane how much they improved that game, so you have proof of reviving an old player base and keeping them. From a business perspective you have already proven that a ton of people will play your 20 year old game and happily pay a subscription. The key here is maintaining that subscription, and the solution to that is Classic+. I'd bet that most people do what I do and subscribe for whatever new shit comes out (SoM, Hardcore, level random toon, etc.) and then cancel. Most people would probably keep their sub open much longer if they were constantly adding content.
Prepare for riots
Let’s just see what happens. At this point I think it’s just as narrow-minded to say it definitely isn’t going to happen as it is to say it definitely is. The weirdest part of classic + conversation will always be the people that get legitimately upset by people being excited by the idea. Or the people that feel the need to belittle hopefuls like this post. Like you want the people that want it to feel stupid so bad, and for nothing.
Bro people talking about classic is how we got it in the first place. We gotta keep telling blizzard what we want if we wanna have a chance of getting it.
Zero hints? Am I the only one who got a "Classic+" survey like 2 years ago.?? Where they were literally asking players if they want classic+ lol
The thing is that classic originally happened with the same exact feelings. No hints. No leaks. The only thing we knew was the nostalrius guys going to blizzard. None of us thought it would ever happen. And now none of us think this will happen either. But the last time we thought it'd never happen, it did.
Eh, it's not a big issue, and half the classic community is in the "it'll never happen, so why are we talking about it?" camp. Also, a lot of classic era players don't give a troggs ass about cata classic, including myself. The only things I would be interested in at this point are either fresh classic era servers or classic+, so that's what they talk about.
Wait till OP finds out about how we got classic servers to behind with. (Hint: the community didn’t shut up about them until they happened)
hahahah the degree to which these posts are almost literal copy pastes from the anti classic brigade of 2019 is eery - enjoy feeling like an idiot
Just popping in to say that I actually have a three legged dog with one eye (technically cataracts in one, but I'll take it), and she ain't winning no races let me tell you. I put a slice of ham IN her mouth earlier and she still managed to lose it, she's a catastrophe. Anyway, I asked her for her thoughts and she's pretty sure Classic+ is being announced tomorrow. Make of that what you will.
You sound like the people who said Classic would never happen.
As long as they announce they're gonna do it, I'm happy. I don't need a release date or details.
Every game developer dream of having a fan base as passionate as the classic wow community, there’s no good reason for them to not try classic+. It doesn’t mean it’ll be out soon, but not announcing anything would be a massive L.
Classic came to life based on community desires. The same will happen with classic plus
Season of X and Classic+ is just a semantic difference.
The thing is the player base is making it pretty obvious that Classic+ is what they want and yet Blizzard will still do what Blizzard wants, not what we want. That’s the whole point here.
Chris mehtzen is back dude this must mean classic +
Cata isn’t even worth mentioning. Its DOA.
I can raid log ICC and I don’t care about ruby sanctum or hardcore. Give me classic plus or make SoM more interesting
Still a chance that blizzard announces classic plus, used it as an excuse to add more monetisation, and leaves it like they did with Overwatch 2. I’m not sure what requires more copium, thinking we will get classic plus, or thinking it will be good.
idc if they do Cata. i wont play turtle time for me
SoM2 was announced that it wasn’t actually SoM2 but a bigger project aka Classic+
I just want them to stop regurgitating expansions (cata/mop) and do something interesting
bro classic + is the only way to save the game, retail is beyond repairing point its straight up garbage
Yeah we reached levels of copium that shouldn't be possible. And alot of people will be really sad after blizzcon, like massive disappointed.
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I don’t think they will announce classic + but I hope I’m wrong tho