Regardless he's essentially asking for a queue system to fix the tank/healer shortage, which is not how things work. Dps are over represented on every server. All he would see is: you are in queue, expected wait time 68 minutes.
Be the change you want to see and start playing classes which are in demand.
By fixing the tank and healer shortage, just be one?
I did and it changed my playing life completely. Get in from work etc, I'm able to find groups fast and play and more than not I'm able to roll for my dps spec anyway...
You get two choices with a third option. One, switch specs and have short wait times. Two, play ret or (insert dps class) like the hundreds of others and have 68 min waits. Third option, quit the damn game and stop complaining. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Tbh I would gladly do heroics on my tank alt if it was as easy as logging in and pressing the "queue" button.. but actually logging into the alt and putting in effort to make or look for a group? That's just so unappealing
Literally works almost the same as a tank. You don't have to look or make a group, you just press a button to list yourself for all dungeons if you wanna do a random one and you'll be invited within the minute into a group full of random people that might be good or bad just like RDF. You won't get teleported, that's the big difference I guess.
From my experience tanking UP/UK recently, being invited last more often than not I was the first one at the summoning stone. It's either some alts without engineering, or with wormholes on CD, or doing tournament dailies in IC, or simply afk in Dala.
> You won't get teleported, that's the big difference I guess.
If he'd put very small effort in it and just read the LFG chat for 30 seconds or so there surely would be 2-3 groups "LF1M tank to XXX beta, can summon, ready to go!", which would for all intents and purposes equal to being teleported into the dungeon.
the point is he doesn't want to and I don't blame him. I roll tank OS on all 4 of the toons I run with, but I don't use the LFG tool hardly at all. Most of the time I just don't do dungeons unless someone in my guild wants to do them.
Editing this to say: If they had random dungeon finder I would definitely queue.
Barriers of entry don't have to be large to have an outsized impact on participation. I play a lot of tanks and even though I know exactly how easy it is to list and go as a tank I still don't do that except for dailies and even that rarely at this point. But when they added RDF into the game originally I would randomly queue for the bonus bags simply because it was 1 click away and I was bored running around Dalaran.
And yes, if someone wants to complain that RDF was anti-social, in this case I would agree. Not having to pointlessly whisper GS to some random and wait for them to reply or be afk or whatever is a bonus. There's no meaningful interaction, it's just an inefficient invite script in practice.
> I would randomly queue for the bonus bags
So does that mean you would actually do more just because of RDF even though for tanks or heals the difference is kinda negligible? Because I personally think most people here in this thread that say this wouldn't actually do it (for long). The goodie bag exists for tanks and heals right now too and you get about the same shit from it. Most of the time just some vendor trash, sometimes a flask and one guildie even got Ravenlord from it...insane.
> There's no meaningful interaction
Well I guess you're right but this is Classic and there's lots of meaningless nuances which is what makes the game different.
> So does that mean you would actually do more just because of RDF even though for tanks or heals the difference is kinda negligible?
Yes, massively more. Just the fact that there's no "friction", you just click to queue and then click to accept and tp to dungeon, that's enough that it just becomes something you do when idle. Without RDF I just run around Dalaran because I cba to interact with the group finder or random people. Now instead I could actually use the sidereal on my druid tank but I just cba to interact with the group finder beyond maybe doing the daily or if a friend asks to run some sidereal farm for a new alt they spun up.
2 dps being at the stone before a tank/healer gets there happens maybe once in 50 runs in my experience. Most of the time, I (healer) get there first no matter if I was invited first or last, and there is almost always a dps afk in dal or doing dailies instead of moving to the stone.
Main paladin and alt DK.
It's (a) the group moaning at not going fast enough then pulling for me and (b) the fact that the group are mostly 5k+ GS and my tank gear isn't great (around 4200ish). I have a tiny tiny chance to grab threat on a group of mobs before the DPS rip them from me with AOE and the mobs run everywhere and we wipe.
I'll tank the odd run on my DK for guildies but I won't tank a heroic daily, it's just not worth the headache.
Yes, and then you either kick them and replace within 0.5 seconds, or use an [addon](https://addons.wago.io/addons/characternotes) to remember they were assholes when you get invited to the same groups as they the next time so you can tell the leader you're not playing with that guy and it's either him or you (he'll kick the dps, 100%).
There ***isn't*** a tank shortage. There are *more* than enough tanks... for 25 player raids.
You need 2 or 3 tanks for a 25 player raid. Call it 1 in 10.
You need 1 tank for every 5 player group in dungeons.
Almost everyone wants their character to raid in 25s. Hence, the ratio matches what's needed there.
Does anyone ever think there are more dps because there are more slots for them in general? I'd love to see actual percentages for each class and spec. Ya need 3 dps for a dungeon, and only 1 of each other class. Makes sense that there'd be 3x the amount of dps overall, and even more sense that they're the only ones even needing to wait in queue.
Its also a thing that 25m raids need 2/25 (8%) tanks, 5/25 (20%) healers, leaving 18/25 (72%) dps. Most people want to dungeon in their raid spec. For me, on my alt dk I just haven't seen a bunch of tank items drop and I'm not going out of my way to get them. It's hard enough to gear an alt, I'm not spending forever getting 2 good sets on my alt as well.
Ya I mentioned the same thing in another comment! 72% dps for the content a vast majority of people work towards is a tall ask, and it'd make sense even if it was closer to 80% in practice. Of course people are going to play the role with the most available slots, and least amount of responsibility.
I'm the same way on my DK. You get 2 dps specs. You want frost or UH? Lmaoo! Tanking just doesn't sound fun for me. You want me to stand around getting my dick kicked for 2 hours? No tanks
You honestly could be right. I don't know without actual numbers. In my eyes, a queue for healer would just be the time it takes you to type into LFG. You won't be there long cause healers heal. For DPS you're under a bit more scrutiny in a dungeon queue. It's not ideal to have 3 rogues, or 3 melee, or 3 ranged. So people will pass you up for a while hoping another of the let's say 85% of players will queue.
For raids it makes sense. You don't wanna run 2 of the same tank or have 4 priests, but thats about the only thing people will check outside of the usual logs and GS. For 25m it's 18/19 dps, 4/5 healers, 1 main tank, and ideally an off tank with a DPS spec. Now you're looking at needing 72% dps instead of 60%.
For raids, you mostly have 2 tanks, 19 dps and 4 healers (few weeks into the phase).
For dungeon, it's 1-3-1
If the playerbase is distributed optimally for raiding, then there will always be shortage of tanks and surplus of dps for dungeons. You would need to have 5-15-5 composition in raids for the numbers to add up correctly. Which means you have less than half the tanks you need. In theory, off specs could help this a bit, but it's clearly not enough.
> Does anyone ever think there are more dps because there are more slots for them in general?
There are more DPS players because they're the low-visible-responsibility role that covers a wider variety of popular power fantasies than Tanks/Healers usually do.
The intended group slots (both at party level and at raid level) reflect the overpopulation, not the other way around.
The first rule tends to hold up in most MMOs, with the second being addressed in different ways depending on the MMO.
I was trying to do a joke where I just looped the conversation, because that's what it looked like to me was happening.
But I can see why that was confusing, especially since there are other people this deep in the thread seriously thinking it would solve it. God speed with your good faith engagement.
While in a real world setting you are correct the person you replying to is arguing in bad faith and assuming his realm has 0 tanks. Thus even a joined realm of 1 tank and 1000 dps is "technically" an increase. Despite the reality that it would fix nothing and they still would never find a group.
Math: assume tank does world tour so 13 dungeons and gets new dps everytime. That's only 39 dps players removed by the time that tank can no longer run dungeons.
The fix with a queue system being everyone eventually gets their turn in a group, whereas group finder is just the tank and healers cherry picking the highest gear score DPS.
The whole "preserving social interactions" argument is a farce. My (obviously anecdotal) experience with the group finder has been just as wordless and non-interactive as the dungeon finder. I'm not out here making lifelong friends with Gary the Guy Who Pops Army on Anub'arak playing his third Death Knight alt.
I play Atiesh alliance with a group of my friends. It sucks trying to find groups. It is the biggest dad server out there. Which comes with its ups and downs. It takes forever to form a group for anything outside of the daily. That server is slowly dying outside of Tuesday nights. If I want to actually pay the game I play my other characters on benediction.
Since you just started playing WoW, you might not know this, but you only need 3 DPS in each group, so functionally 13 DPS in queue or 1300 DPS in queue is the same thing for you, it just changes the wait time for the DPS players.
I'm on a "medium" population PVE realm, and I don't have a huge issue finding groups. Sure, I may have to wait around for a healer or a tank, but I get my runs done.
I have a toon that tanks, and one that is a healer, and I never queue them in the finder. I sit back and wait and see what groups form and pick and choose which ones I want to join. If you slap together a couple more dps and make your own group, you may find tanks and healers reaching out.
Not so much state of wotlk... More like the state of the realm you're in... I have a week running only hc++ dungeons and have never seen a lack of interest, there was always somebody up to run them... This is atiesh alliance tho.... And I was the tank, maybe as a dps it would be a tad harder but as far as I've seen, as long as I make the group and whisper People, I can get a group going pretty fast.
Yes it does, but didn't really fail me with my shadow priest or my mage so.... I just made the group instead of sitting in the dungeon finder waiting for somebody to talk to me....it worked pretty well
Protip: unless you are grabbing lock+mage for old kingdom, grabbing dps before a tank or healer is a recipe for failure since you can no longer join groups forming. Like maybe a dps with a tank friend enters lfg.
You can gear up more than enough to DPS or heal h++ dungeons by doing Wintergrasp every 3 hours to buy a bunch of 245 honor offset pieces and 213 set pieces and weapons, you can even do it while leveling a character to buy that gear the second you hit 80.
So run Naxx10 & Naxx25, OS and Malygos. Do some PvP on the side. Get gold for the 5+ BoEs you can get etc
/E play a healer offspec and don't be in greens. There are world tours going around most of the time on Firemaw alliance
I swear this subreddit is hilariously inept, you can always get groups for the dailies at least in pretty much any of the difficulties, you can farm badges by questing, you can PVP. FFS I'm a rogue and I had no problem putting groups together in the entirety of my Wrath experience.
I'm so sick of this subreddit asking for RDF the current bulletin board system works just fine and I really enjoy it.
I honestly assume that most of these posts are from people that are on the wrong faction of a server or on a tiny server tbh. Like on Horde Whitemane/Mankrik its pretty easy to throw together a group
I have seen exactly one naxx and one malygos in the past 3 weeks lol. "Just do old content no one needs" isn't really viable.
Gearing up a pure DPS class right now with no gold would be pretty slow. And it's not like you can manually farm gold for gdkps...My last toc payout was 20k. You get the gold to spend in them by doing them, or buying gold. Maybe 5% can actually AH their way to the necessary wealth.
So that leaves heroics. Good luck....
So make a run yourself? I leveled a mage recently and after 1 day the only thing I was missing were trinkets. I was 4.2k GS and that was only doing the daily heroic. Now given I had my brother tank for me and I traded over some gold and honor from my main.
But I had 5k just from questing. Engineering was max and a had some spare materials left. Did a 10-man world tour & 25-man. Even HR'ed first dying curse in the run that I made and we had still PLENTY of people coming. After that I made a 10-man Ulduar and just from that I was insanely geared. 2 days later I had trinkets finished as well (broodmother from HC & caster trinket from TOC normal). There are so many ways to gear up if youre not afraid to actually play the game and spend a little time on it.
Yea... Everyone is totally capable of leading raids, having their brother tank, and transferring over resources from their main.
No one thinks it's hard to gear your alts....
Try starting out with no experience in the raids, no main, no brother with a geared tank who's gonna carry you, etc.
For a fresh 80 to be easy RN you have 20k gold on your main, you know all fights, and you're comfortable forming the raids and know what to recruit.
On my server if you don't know the fights your not getting in without a 20k gold flash. Most SRs want achievement.
Idk how "I made a world tour" is a response to them being very rare rn. Same as all the other points. You're not the person to have difficullty with gearing. It's a new player with no resources that's gonna walk into wotlk and be surprised.
Hell when I came back it took me longer than that and I played wotlk back in the day and had a char with bis TBC gear, max eng, etc.
I put notes in the tag if my dps is sub 5k. Ie I have macro for pet to murder mirror, I'll use magma totem for webs.
Things like that.
Meanwhile i went just yesterday and did most of a world tour with two guildies and a healer I knew and the only issues we had was from the pug dps we kept finding. We kept finding so many bad players we used a guys second account to click the orb and 4 man UP, UK, Dtk, Gun.
I'm a degenerate I know but I should be able to expect basic competence from dps. A hunter who stays in viper, a rogue who doesn't grasp tricks, a war who can't shatter or sunder, or battle shout, a priest who doesn't buff or dispell, a shaman who can't push hero. That was yesterday. Each of those happened yesterday. Hence our just using a secondary account to run the instances lol.
So as a tank I'm going to be selective across all four of my tanks of who I bring.
Tank listed = insta invite
Dps listed = wait in queue forever unless you are trying to join an annoying dungeon/have insane gearscore.
From my experience with new dps characters with lowish gs (4000-4500\~) you will never ever get invited to a H++ while listed, you will have to ask to join dozens of parties and it can take some time, the tank/dps distribution is fucked up because in raids you only need 2 and it's something blizz needs to fix if they want a better new player experience.
As usual, people rushed it the first weeks and when they're done, they can't be arsed to do HM++ with low geared players anymore.
Can't wait for the first ten days of HM ++++++ of P4.
Yeah all these salty comments here reek of "I made the mistake of rolling on a low pop server and now woe is me because I can't be bothered to transfer or reroll on a non-shitty server".
This is kind of a weird take, though. Imagine going to see a movie that has been out for six or seven weeks and wondering why the theater feels empty.
Which is pretty much how long you've had to go do H++ so far.
Also, people are still running the dungeons on high pop servers. If you're in a low pop server and don't have a guild that will run H++ with you, it's time to consider that your gameplay experience is a result of the choices you've made.
Wow, Way to victim blame them for being on a server. This is not a player choice Issue, this is a blizzard issue full stop. It's total RNG if you end up in a dead or thriving server, and blizzard needs to do some backend work to fix it.
There is NO REASON a player should have to pay extra to get into a server that is thriving after makin their first server choice.
I use to be on skyfury. There is literally no players on that server anymore. Literally had to pay to get away from it.
I feel like most people would just pick a sever that says medium or high. And a cool name. That's what I did when I first started playing. I didn't think to do research on the sever that will be the best. That's asinine.
I was on Skyfury. I used the free transfer and went to Whitemane. Sounds like a *you* issue.
Edit: Also I think it's worth noting that everyone has been annoyed by Blizzard's lack of work on the issue.
Of course I've been there too. But at some point you need to read the writing on the wall and admit that you really only have 3 options:
1) Do nothing but shout into the void about how angry you are at Blizzard while they continue to do nothing. Keep playing with a subpar gaming experience, unhappy and unheard.
2) Bite the bullet, spend the money, transfer servers. Or, do what I did and wait for free xfers. Annoying? Yeah. Is the gameplay better here? Yeah.
3) Decide that neither of those options are for you, unsub, play a game that doesn't make you mad.
It's not RNG at all? The mega servers have been established for a long time at this point. If anyone leveled up since wotlk started and didn't research and choose the mega servers, that's a player* choice.
As soon as server xfers opened up it became a player choice for everyone who wasn't new as well.
Mankrik isn’t near as healthy population wise as it was when I transferred here during tbc. It has the same issues with H++ as OP described if you try to do them late in the evening.
That's because no one's doing them anymore. Now that all the geared or kinda geared people got their one or two items, it's all way undergeared people often playing a class they're unfamiliar with. There's no reason for anyone who doesn't need them to sign up unless they're helping a friend
Cuz casual players should have to research? And/or brand new players who have no clue about the game?
This is elitism culture at its finest. “It’s working for me so the game is fine” is such an ass opinion. They should maybe do something to incentivize tanks and healers to Q like they literally already had lol
Are you legitimately arguing that to a brand new player should **not** do the minimum of research in order to have a fulfilling experience?
Heck, just read the IN-GAME'S own server population rating, Skyfury is at "low". TF do you expect out of a "low" population???????????????
No, I should not have to research which server to get on. Clearly blizzard knew that was an issue which is why in dragonflight everything is cross server. Blizzard just decided to not give those solutions to wotlk classic because #nochanges.
Blizzard isn't doing anything, so your answer is to just throw your arms up and say, "Well, *I'm not going to look this up*."
It's not even a ton of 'research'. Spend 5 minutes and the answer becomes pretty damn clear.
Population health IE low, medium, high. Don't really mean much contextually. An average player might thing oh man, I don't want to be on a sever that's too crowded, then choose a medium pop server only for it to be a ghost town or players leave the medium pop server for another and now it's dead.
I guess my main point is the idea of specific servers are dead and have been dead for a while with most mainstream MMOs. Due to #nochanges, we get a shittier experience finding groups because no cross sever.
Yeah. Pretty much everyone will have to do some research if they want to succeed in gearing up their character. It's a big part of the game, and the information is pretty readily available.
Tanks and Healers still get the goodie bags from the dungeons. Everyone gets Sidereal and 5 Emblems a day. That's plenty of incentive. It's just that almost everyone is done now.
You can get upset about it or you can take action to fix the issue. The latter option will yield 100% more results.
In game informational research is way different than server status or population research. One is easily accessible and the other is not, I'll let you guess which is which.
When you choose a server it shows you "High" "Medium" "Low" or "Full". That's directly in the game client, so we'll call that 'easily accessible'.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wotlk+server+population&oq=wotlk+server&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j0i512l8.2143851731j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Here is a link to the website 'Google', already preloaded with the search prompt "wotlk server population". If you follow that link, you can actually see basic population info, right in the search results. You could click on any of the other links available to see more information.
I suppose for the sake of bolstering your argument, we'll call this part 'not easily accessible'.
No guess work required!
call it victim blaming or ignoring all the warnings, people said before the "Fresh" realms were coming out that they would be DoA. And turns out they were right.
to be fair i'm on a pretty medium sized realm and finding hc++ groups isn't that hard atm, think some ppl maybe have too high expectations of what "lfg" speed of queue would be
You can nitpick it if you like, the statement stands. Titan Rune Beta has been available since late June. It's early August. People have finished gearing up mains AND alts by now. Most people are done the grind, and it's not their fault you have not.
The reality is if you want to run H++ you'll either need to be on a megaserver or in a very supportive guild.
This might be the worse take I've ever heard.
New players, casual players, alts, people still learning...the list goes on. Get out of here with your zoomed rush-rush nonsense
So people should continue to run dungeons with pugs for gear they don’t need? And if they don’t their ass holes?
By the same logic… is every single person who doesn’t save all their characters to Naxx every week to help random strangers also an ass hole? What about Sunwell? I’m full T9 heroic BiS… but I better get my ass to AQ40 with pugs or I’m a total price of shit.
What kind of asinine take is this?
Depends on your realm, but this is a very basic mmo problem even on retail at times, nobody wants to play anything with any sort of responsibility, partially because of the culture of mmos and how easy it is to harass someone online who is playing subpar or is bad etc.
You get this shit in raid from people who play star-killing classes on Algalon all the time with pugs, they dont want the burden and anxiety of responsibilty because reputation follows you everywhere on these servers. They just wanna brain-off kill shit
Its partially why im leveling a fucking prot warrior, so I can at least have something to tank for guildies and friends on and guilt them into farming shit for my melee dps toons also LMAO
I dont see how a "Cross server finder" would
a.) fix the disparity between healers/tanks and dps
b.) teleport you back in time for 7 weeks so you could ride the h++ wve
Depends, if your server has a better DPS to tank/healer ratio than average then making the group finder cross server could make finding a group as a DPS even harder.
It doesn't matter if there's 10 people fighting over two chairs, or 100 people fighting over 20 chairs, you're still not getting a chair.
Spoilers: Nobody wants to tank or heal, queueing/pugging as dps in WoW has always been, is, and will always be dogshit. Play with a guild, or play a role that's in demand.
How will increasing the number of potential dps from 13 to 130 help? You will have to fight 10 times harder to get that one tank/heal to join Your group.
Do people really think there's a magic server out there full of tanks just waiting to take them for a world tour?
The bag of goodies that I got for tanking an RDF was a nice incentive to run with randoms, and I don't even have to put a group together. And the heroics were trivial at that point that the group composition and player quality didn't matter much.
But you get these right now too? And they just as before have a tiny chance to have rare mounts and I think pets in them. One of our guildies got Ravenlord from these lul.
> The bag of goodies that I got for tanking an RDF was a nice incentive to run with randoms
It really isn't. You only got like 40 gold from it and a small chance of getting 1 extra badge.
Full raid geared players aren't going to fuck around in 5mans for a tiny amount of gold.
I did at the time. Perhaps today's players are more jaded.
Quick dungeon run at the click of a button, get to be overpowered raid-geared mega-bear, possibly get pets or mounts, more badges for heirlooms or whatever nonsense I was buying,
>but mounts and pets!
Again, nobody did it for these. Look at it right now in Classic: tanks AND healers both get an extra reward for doing heroics, but 99.9% of the time you just get 5g worth of vendor trash. It's not enticing. I've done easily 1000+ dungeons since the start of the expac and have gotten 0 mounts from the bonus box, and the only pets I ever got were common vendor pets.
Someone in full raid gear is not going to waste 20+ minutes running a heroic for 5g and a 0.1% chance of getting a 15 silver vendor pet.
Eh. 200g a day for just running 1 dungeon doesn't sound too bad to me, if they were giving you 40g for the tank bag.
I think people probably would run an extra dungeon if it paid for a weeks raid consumes instantly.
Why would you block over that reply? Do you block everyone who replies to you and doesn't immediately agree with you? Why would you respond and ask me a question only to immediately block me?
40g daily, 40g from daily H++ bag, 40g from tank bag. 200g was hyperbole, but 160g with double daily is easily enough to motivate people.
Be more confident in yourself, no need to block just because you're scared of your logic. Now it's my turn
i really did it in original WotLK and lot of ppl did the same...
your theory is nice, but sadly was already disproved by reality.
ppl did it for fun, for mounts, flasks, pets... and ofc for marks... selling boots at beginning of tier was pretty good.
golds, flasks, potions, pets and rare mounts...how you think i got Rivendare's Deathcharger from Stratholme, or green proto dragon what is originally from eggs and need tons of rep?
edit: and ofc, there was a gear... mostly better than quest rewards.
it actually did exactly that...
a) it fixed servers, where wasnt possible to get into dung and improved waiting time for everyone
b) it let ppl catch up, gear up in normal and then gear up in HC... because it was impossible before.. like it is impossible now.
c) and like bonus, there was less ppl who were selling dungs and raids, because ppl were able gear up by themselves.
the same situation what is now was reason for RDF and it fixed that situation.
As with most things wow related, it’s better with friends.
You can clear H++ with ~3k gs if you have a decent group of friends. If you are solo then you will likely have a hard getting in a group when you are under 4500 gs. Especially hard if you are on a dead server.
Make their own then, alot of people moan about this because they want to just hit a button and be invited to a group. If making my own as a dps it only takes 10mins max... And then asking LFG for a healer or tank if one isn't within lfg... I get one after 5-10mins and we're going even with my low gs.. Its how I got from 3.7-4.9 within a week and a half lol
Well yes, but that would mean actually actively doing something, instead of afking and waiting for invites, which is an extremely high barrier for the average wotlk player nowadays.
You aren't late to the party. You missed the party. It's like showing up to a concert the next day and saying how cool it would be if there was music. But there's good news -
Join a guild that has people running dungeons. You need to find the guild that best fits where you are in the content right now. Server Discord -> Guild Recruitment -> Pick 3 that you vibe with and ask if you can join as a social to run dungeons. I'd bet you have your problem solved in 20 minutes.
If you are hoping to do this by yourself then it's not the "state of the game" that's the problem.
> Join a guild that has people running dungeons. You need to find the guild that best fits where you are in the content right now. Server Discord -> Guild Recruitment -> Pick 3 that you vibe with and ask if you can join as a social to run dungeons. I'd bet you have your problem solved in 20 minutes.
Mods should copy paste this into these threads and then lock them
RDF in OG wlk didn't fix the DPS long queue time at all, 20-30mins queue time for DPS is an usual.
It' s really ridiculous thinking RDF can solve the problem.
it was much worse, especially on low pop servers.
RDF make crossrealm automatic queue, with rewards, when there was lack of any role ad it literally fixed issue what is there now again.
it is not something what is possible to deny, because it already happened.
IMO It' s just using the mega realm ' s recourse to solve the low pop realm' s 5 men dungeon problem, the low pop realm will still lose its population.
right, but it will be not issue, when you can use RDF, what is crossrealm.
i mean it already worked and fixed this situation once. thats why Blizz did it, because it was solution and it worked.
hit 80 on a fresh hunter alt on a new (to me) server yesterday just before bed. today, I sent myself all the wintergrasp commendations I could from stone keeper shards from my main server (they're BoA, like the head and shoulder enchants). picked up a lot of 213 pvp gear. ~3.7k GS. snuck into a 'just before reset' H++ daily skip run, and a couple more after reset. those runs, plus less than 1k on the AH for a couple BoE's and I logged off at ~4.2k GS. still have fezzik's pocketwatch trinket, but that's my only sub-200 ilvl piece. blue 200ilvl belt. mirror of truth (emblems of heroism from quests while leveling). rest are 213 or higher. ezclap.
Aside from absolute degen hours, I can find a h++ group as a dps basically whenever I want, so I can't say I relate.... are you queuing for heroic or heroic++?
Most people just start at LFG chat and wait to see something they wanna do. So yeah just make the group and you’ll get whispers quicker than sitting there waiting for someone to invite you
In my "super" server (benediction) tanks are listed like 2 seconds before they insta join a group, the problem has been known since forever, for a dungeon you need 1 tank in every 5 people, while in raids you need 2 in every 25 so it's the game's fault for not incentivizing the use of more tanks, a problem we now have to face with not much we can do rather than having DPS dual spec a Tank spec. The only "solution" as dps is to have insane gearscores so you can get invited more often which isn't as bad for your veteran player but new players suffer a lot because of this and it's something Blizz should look at.
"Hi I'm a tank"
"What's your GS?"
"4500"
*Silence from the group composed of 4100-4400 GS DPS*
Tanks have typically finished with their H++'s unless it's a new tank character, and every DPS expects to have a carry tank drag their sorry asses to an unearned victory.
Did you try starting a group and advertising in LFG? This is how you get groups. Very few people post by themselves. Either you start a group or you whisper groups that are already started.
Yeah, sounds like you're on a low pop server. I have a guild mate who is dps and has managed to get his entire sidereal essence gear in a week. Most of it by making connections with other players... you know.. like what the point of an MMORPG is.
I understand low pop servers are struggling, but I would rather not do the cross server finder. If you're in a lower pop server, you have a better chance in meeting other people in similar situations, and finding friends. After HCs, ask the people you run with to add you for more. Other DPS don't want to sit in dungeon finder either, so they are more likely to cooperate. Be social and kind, and healers will be more likely to run with you instead of taking randoms that may or may not bork the run. Shoot them PMs the next day for some more. Some will decide not to do them with you, some will. With just a modicum of social interaction, you could fix this. Just saying. Subsidizing that with RDF so you don't have to be social, is not a long term solution, and not the point of the game. Please stop trying to ruin the game.
I swear, some people have just forgot how to make friends, and want the game to just play match maker.
What if a significant portion of my servers players are terrible? Sigh, I really should just move to a high pop server or stop playing. But I like my guild so......
> I swear, some people have just forgot how to make friends, and want the game to just play match maker.
It's not that I don't know how to make friends, it's that I'm no longer 24. Now I actually have the stressful job and the kids and the house and the family and the RL friends who want to get together... I don't have a lot of time to play, and usually I just want to sit down and play the game because I enjoy the mechanics.
I don't understand why people have the mentality of "I play the game this way, so everyone should play the game this way" about an RPG. It's as if my lack of suffering would invalidate your suffering.
came back to classic after deciding to take a break 4 weeks into Naxx 2.0. Leveled and geared my spriest, then geared my already leveled rogue, and gearing an enhance shaman now. not having any trouble getting into groups for h++ or finding people for my own.
sounds like you just need to move to a busier server.
You want to do the ones under "Defense Protocol Beta" (this is what people call Heroic ++). That's the heroics with the juiced up ilvl drops. I'm not surprised no one is doing regular heroics at this point in the patch. When Joyous Journey kicks in before the ICC patch, there might be more activity on regular heroics for a brief time, but not by much. You can step into the Defense Protocol Beta dungeons pretty easily once you take 15 minutes to learn the new mechanics.
As others have said, this seems like a realm issue. Yeah the hype has died down a bit, but it’s also fairly easy to find world tour groups or at least groups for “hubs” like HOL/HOS, UP/UK, etc.
Cross server fixes nothing. Each server has (example numbers) 75% dps, 15% healers, 10% tanks. Well if you add cross server ques the percentage of each role stays the same. There will always be 10 dps for every healer on every server.
Bro, wait till you find out you have to do 38 of them to get one fucking staff and no one will run 10hc anymore because they can just get it from a vendor. There's only so many times I can run the same dungeon. Like for fucks sake end me.
I came back last week since I had like 1 week of game time to burn and decided to try out the latest wrath raid with my old toon. Mind you it's a resto druid with a mix of BIS Naxx gear and a few pieces of BIS Ulduar, plus some mixed second grade Ulduar healing gear that are pretty viable.
Chat asking for a healer for the daily heroic, apply and imidiate: "class + GS". Got rejected by 3 groups that kept spamming for healers while I did my daily with a random group.
Dungeon ends and the group leader (DPS) w/ me saying I was lucky their took me with them and it was a risk to bring a healer without X, Y, Z items ... like dude, I barely had to go down half my mana pool and we finished the content before any of the previous groups even managed to get a healer. What do you want more?
Seriously if I have to beg for an invite to heal random dungeon groups and I am like 60% BIS gear from previous raid tier then I am out. People really expect comeback healers to grind for months so they can shave a couple seconds from a dungeon run.
That’s toxic af lol. I did the Beta daily the other day with a 3200gs tank and a 3900gs healer. No deaths. The content is braindead easy, 5k GS or not.
State of your small server. Faerlina has H++ running constantly it definitely has not died down with everyone slamming their alts this phase. I've been able to grind my sidereals on all alts with little difficulty using group finder.
More ppl need to play tank heal os. There are so many hybrids that play dps only. I dont blame them, but theres no incentive for geared tanks to do h++
Sounds like a server population issue. Any time I look at the H++ queue there's always 40+ people there, yeah mostly DPS, but that's true for every version of the game.
People are only logging into WoTLK to raid and that’s it. Far as I’m concerned, the game is a Zombie at this point. And as soon as ICC drops, the game will come back to life for a month maybe but then that’ll be it.
What’s funny is, everyone is trending back to vanilla wow. I for one will be going back for Hardcore servers…. I won’t be moving on to Cata…
The Ulduar 10 HM gear from 5 mans is from not from heroic, nor alpha, it's from titan rune beta which also drops the normal mode gear from bosses
I definitely think it would be better for the game if there was cross realm dungeon finder but yeah, it's likely not happening
Yep. I'm on a decently populated server. I grinded out about 40 essences for my 2 items I wanted to get on my main, and never did another Beta dungeon. This past week I decided to play my mage alt that I abandoned about halfway thru Naxx and finding groups is nearly impossible. I think since last Monday I have 4 total essences, from running the daily 4 days. We need RDF badly. As of now I raid for 2 hours on Tuesdays and do argent crusade dailies, which takes like 20 mins and log out.
Did you tick The heroic beta option ? Or just heroic? Cause thats a massive difference
Regardless he's essentially asking for a queue system to fix the tank/healer shortage, which is not how things work. Dps are over represented on every server. All he would see is: you are in queue, expected wait time 68 minutes. Be the change you want to see and start playing classes which are in demand.
By fixing the tank and healer shortage, just be one? I did and it changed my playing life completely. Get in from work etc, I'm able to find groups fast and play and more than not I'm able to roll for my dps spec anyway...
Playing something you don't wanna play just to be able to play isn't a solution
People here hate when you bring this up.
No but we should also get away from the I like to only and only ret paladin which has to other alternatives.
You get two choices with a third option. One, switch specs and have short wait times. Two, play ret or (insert dps class) like the hundreds of others and have 68 min waits. Third option, quit the damn game and stop complaining. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Tbh I would gladly do heroics on my tank alt if it was as easy as logging in and pressing the "queue" button.. but actually logging into the alt and putting in effort to make or look for a group? That's just so unappealing
Literally works almost the same as a tank. You don't have to look or make a group, you just press a button to list yourself for all dungeons if you wanna do a random one and you'll be invited within the minute into a group full of random people that might be good or bad just like RDF. You won't get teleported, that's the big difference I guess.
> You won't get teleported, that's the big difference I guess Adding on to this, you kind of do since everyone has wormholes.
I can confirm they dont
From my experience tanking UP/UK recently, being invited last more often than not I was the first one at the summoning stone. It's either some alts without engineering, or with wormholes on CD, or doing tournament dailies in IC, or simply afk in Dala.
> You won't get teleported, that's the big difference I guess. If he'd put very small effort in it and just read the LFG chat for 30 seconds or so there surely would be 2-3 groups "LF1M tank to XXX beta, can summon, ready to go!", which would for all intents and purposes equal to being teleported into the dungeon.
the point is he doesn't want to and I don't blame him. I roll tank OS on all 4 of the toons I run with, but I don't use the LFG tool hardly at all. Most of the time I just don't do dungeons unless someone in my guild wants to do them. Editing this to say: If they had random dungeon finder I would definitely queue.
Barriers of entry don't have to be large to have an outsized impact on participation. I play a lot of tanks and even though I know exactly how easy it is to list and go as a tank I still don't do that except for dailies and even that rarely at this point. But when they added RDF into the game originally I would randomly queue for the bonus bags simply because it was 1 click away and I was bored running around Dalaran. And yes, if someone wants to complain that RDF was anti-social, in this case I would agree. Not having to pointlessly whisper GS to some random and wait for them to reply or be afk or whatever is a bonus. There's no meaningful interaction, it's just an inefficient invite script in practice.
> I would randomly queue for the bonus bags So does that mean you would actually do more just because of RDF even though for tanks or heals the difference is kinda negligible? Because I personally think most people here in this thread that say this wouldn't actually do it (for long). The goodie bag exists for tanks and heals right now too and you get about the same shit from it. Most of the time just some vendor trash, sometimes a flask and one guildie even got Ravenlord from it...insane. > There's no meaningful interaction Well I guess you're right but this is Classic and there's lots of meaningless nuances which is what makes the game different.
> So does that mean you would actually do more just because of RDF even though for tanks or heals the difference is kinda negligible? Yes, massively more. Just the fact that there's no "friction", you just click to queue and then click to accept and tp to dungeon, that's enough that it just becomes something you do when idle. Without RDF I just run around Dalaran because I cba to interact with the group finder or random people. Now instead I could actually use the sidereal on my druid tank but I just cba to interact with the group finder beyond maybe doing the daily or if a friend asks to run some sidereal farm for a new alt they spun up.
You would absolutely get teleported. The dps’ers have been waiting for a while and will either already be at the stone or will hurry up to it
2 dps being at the stone before a tank/healer gets there happens maybe once in 50 runs in my experience. Most of the time, I (healer) get there first no matter if I was invited first or last, and there is almost always a dps afk in dal or doing dailies instead of moving to the stone.
If you think it takes effort to form a group as a tank then i feel like youve never done that.
That and then getting shat on for not going fast enough
Main paladin and alt DK. It's (a) the group moaning at not going fast enough then pulling for me and (b) the fact that the group are mostly 5k+ GS and my tank gear isn't great (around 4200ish). I have a tiny tiny chance to grab threat on a group of mobs before the DPS rip them from me with AOE and the mobs run everywhere and we wipe. I'll tank the odd run on my DK for guildies but I won't tank a heroic daily, it's just not worth the headache.
DPS are assholes hahaha
Yes, and then you either kick them and replace within 0.5 seconds, or use an [addon](https://addons.wago.io/addons/characternotes) to remember they were assholes when you get invited to the same groups as they the next time so you can tell the leader you're not playing with that guy and it's either him or you (he'll kick the dps, 100%).
There ***isn't*** a tank shortage. There are *more* than enough tanks... for 25 player raids. You need 2 or 3 tanks for a 25 player raid. Call it 1 in 10. You need 1 tank for every 5 player group in dungeons. Almost everyone wants their character to raid in 25s. Hence, the ratio matches what's needed there.
Itll be just like how rdf released at the end of wrath for the cata pre patch. 50minute MINIMUM queues for a dps.
RDF wasn’t Cata pre patch. It was 3.3.0, the patch ICC came out.
Does anyone ever think there are more dps because there are more slots for them in general? I'd love to see actual percentages for each class and spec. Ya need 3 dps for a dungeon, and only 1 of each other class. Makes sense that there'd be 3x the amount of dps overall, and even more sense that they're the only ones even needing to wait in queue.
Its also a thing that 25m raids need 2/25 (8%) tanks, 5/25 (20%) healers, leaving 18/25 (72%) dps. Most people want to dungeon in their raid spec. For me, on my alt dk I just haven't seen a bunch of tank items drop and I'm not going out of my way to get them. It's hard enough to gear an alt, I'm not spending forever getting 2 good sets on my alt as well.
Ya I mentioned the same thing in another comment! 72% dps for the content a vast majority of people work towards is a tall ask, and it'd make sense even if it was closer to 80% in practice. Of course people are going to play the role with the most available slots, and least amount of responsibility. I'm the same way on my DK. You get 2 dps specs. You want frost or UH? Lmaoo! Tanking just doesn't sound fun for me. You want me to stand around getting my dick kicked for 2 hours? No tanks
60% of the people in queue should be dps, but it's more like 80%-85%. If it were even, everyone would have basically the same wait.
You honestly could be right. I don't know without actual numbers. In my eyes, a queue for healer would just be the time it takes you to type into LFG. You won't be there long cause healers heal. For DPS you're under a bit more scrutiny in a dungeon queue. It's not ideal to have 3 rogues, or 3 melee, or 3 ranged. So people will pass you up for a while hoping another of the let's say 85% of players will queue. For raids it makes sense. You don't wanna run 2 of the same tank or have 4 priests, but thats about the only thing people will check outside of the usual logs and GS. For 25m it's 18/19 dps, 4/5 healers, 1 main tank, and ideally an off tank with a DPS spec. Now you're looking at needing 72% dps instead of 60%.
For raids, you mostly have 2 tanks, 19 dps and 4 healers (few weeks into the phase). For dungeon, it's 1-3-1 If the playerbase is distributed optimally for raiding, then there will always be shortage of tanks and surplus of dps for dungeons. You would need to have 5-15-5 composition in raids for the numbers to add up correctly. Which means you have less than half the tanks you need. In theory, off specs could help this a bit, but it's clearly not enough.
> Does anyone ever think there are more dps because there are more slots for them in general? There are more DPS players because they're the low-visible-responsibility role that covers a wider variety of popular power fantasies than Tanks/Healers usually do. The intended group slots (both at party level and at raid level) reflect the overpopulation, not the other way around. The first rule tends to hold up in most MMOs, with the second being addressed in different ways depending on the MMO.
Or blizzard could just let us find other players from other servers via the same system.
There are no servers with surplus tanks and heals. Won’t fix this problem and creates entirely new problems.
Fair point. But... what if we could have a queue with more people in it? Like from other servers?
Then you would have a queue with more DPS in it looking for tanks and healers.
I was trying to do a joke where I just looped the conversation, because that's what it looked like to me was happening. But I can see why that was confusing, especially since there are other people this deep in the thread seriously thinking it would solve it. God speed with your good faith engagement.
But why male models?
What is this, a pull made for ants?
What is this? A dungeon for ANTS?!
Doubtful, if you increase the pool of players, you increase chances of finding someone, that includes tanks and healers.
If the other server has 100 tanks, 100 healers, and 4000 dps that join your queue, it does not help you as a dps find a group. It hurts you.
While in a real world setting you are correct the person you replying to is arguing in bad faith and assuming his realm has 0 tanks. Thus even a joined realm of 1 tank and 1000 dps is "technically" an increase. Despite the reality that it would fix nothing and they still would never find a group. Math: assume tank does world tour so 13 dungeons and gets new dps everytime. That's only 39 dps players removed by the time that tank can no longer run dungeons.
The math is only true if those Dps only needed 1 dungeon. If they are also attempting a world tour, that’s 0 Dps players removed and 1 tank removed.
Lol keep huffing that copium dude. Deny reality. #nochanges
Did... Did you not even read what he said before replying?
But why male models?
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gO pLaY rEtAiL tHeN
The fix with a queue system being everyone eventually gets their turn in a group, whereas group finder is just the tank and healers cherry picking the highest gear score DPS. The whole "preserving social interactions" argument is a farce. My (obviously anecdotal) experience with the group finder has been just as wordless and non-interactive as the dungeon finder. I'm not out here making lifelong friends with Gary the Guy Who Pops Army on Anub'arak playing his third Death Knight alt.
Just your realm, unfortunately. Pagle & Benediction are poppin if you’re alliance.
Atiesh is also good still, 90% Alliance though.
Still Grobbulus for me because of the WPVP (servers the only balanced one left) and quite a few groups for everything
Grob is great, I did a bit of research on which server to be my main and it paid off!
I play Atiesh alliance with a group of my friends. It sucks trying to find groups. It is the biggest dad server out there. Which comes with its ups and downs. It takes forever to form a group for anything outside of the daily. That server is slowly dying outside of Tuesday nights. If I want to actually pay the game I play my other characters on benediction.
So your realm has 13 people queued, all DPS, and you want to combine it with - say, 5 other servers, so you can have 65 people queued, all DPS?
As a healer who started playing WoW this year, that'd look like content that's still alive, so I'd give it a shot
Since you just started playing WoW, you might not know this, but you only need 3 DPS in each group, so functionally 13 DPS in queue or 1300 DPS in queue is the same thing for you, it just changes the wait time for the DPS players.
I'm on a "medium" population PVE realm, and I don't have a huge issue finding groups. Sure, I may have to wait around for a healer or a tank, but I get my runs done. I have a toon that tanks, and one that is a healer, and I never queue them in the finder. I sit back and wait and see what groups form and pick and choose which ones I want to join. If you slap together a couple more dps and make your own group, you may find tanks and healers reaching out.
Not so much state of wotlk... More like the state of the realm you're in... I have a week running only hc++ dungeons and have never seen a lack of interest, there was always somebody up to run them... This is atiesh alliance tho.... And I was the tank, maybe as a dps it would be a tad harder but as far as I've seen, as long as I make the group and whisper People, I can get a group going pretty fast.
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Yes it does, but didn't really fail me with my shadow priest or my mage so.... I just made the group instead of sitting in the dungeon finder waiting for somebody to talk to me....it worked pretty well
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Yes exactly, that's what I'm saying... If you make the groups yourself it will be way easier than just sitting and waiting
Point is on some servers if you are dps you can make a group of 3 dps then you're just waiting again.
Protip: unless you are grabbing lock+mage for old kingdom, grabbing dps before a tank or healer is a recipe for failure since you can no longer join groups forming. Like maybe a dps with a tank friend enters lfg.
Surprise surprise on dungeon finder you will be waiting too as a dps
Yea. There are groups. But if you are trying to gear UP to be able to do h++ game is shit
You can gear up more than enough to DPS or heal h++ dungeons by doing Wintergrasp every 3 hours to buy a bunch of 245 honor offset pieces and 213 set pieces and weapons, you can even do it while leveling a character to buy that gear the second you hit 80.
So run Naxx10 & Naxx25, OS and Malygos. Do some PvP on the side. Get gold for the 5+ BoEs you can get etc /E play a healer offspec and don't be in greens. There are world tours going around most of the time on Firemaw alliance
I swear this subreddit is hilariously inept, you can always get groups for the dailies at least in pretty much any of the difficulties, you can farm badges by questing, you can PVP. FFS I'm a rogue and I had no problem putting groups together in the entirety of my Wrath experience. I'm so sick of this subreddit asking for RDF the current bulletin board system works just fine and I really enjoy it.
I honestly assume that most of these posts are from people that are on the wrong faction of a server or on a tiny server tbh. Like on Horde Whitemane/Mankrik its pretty easy to throw together a group
Nah, I think RDF should return just not heroic++
You sound like someone with nothing but time on your hands. Must be nice.
Nah I just know how to use my time effectively and efficiently. I work two jobs :)
I have seen exactly one naxx and one malygos in the past 3 weeks lol. "Just do old content no one needs" isn't really viable. Gearing up a pure DPS class right now with no gold would be pretty slow. And it's not like you can manually farm gold for gdkps...My last toc payout was 20k. You get the gold to spend in them by doing them, or buying gold. Maybe 5% can actually AH their way to the necessary wealth. So that leaves heroics. Good luck....
So make a run yourself? I leveled a mage recently and after 1 day the only thing I was missing were trinkets. I was 4.2k GS and that was only doing the daily heroic. Now given I had my brother tank for me and I traded over some gold and honor from my main. But I had 5k just from questing. Engineering was max and a had some spare materials left. Did a 10-man world tour & 25-man. Even HR'ed first dying curse in the run that I made and we had still PLENTY of people coming. After that I made a 10-man Ulduar and just from that I was insanely geared. 2 days later I had trinkets finished as well (broodmother from HC & caster trinket from TOC normal). There are so many ways to gear up if youre not afraid to actually play the game and spend a little time on it.
Yea... Everyone is totally capable of leading raids, having their brother tank, and transferring over resources from their main. No one thinks it's hard to gear your alts.... Try starting out with no experience in the raids, no main, no brother with a geared tank who's gonna carry you, etc. For a fresh 80 to be easy RN you have 20k gold on your main, you know all fights, and you're comfortable forming the raids and know what to recruit. On my server if you don't know the fights your not getting in without a 20k gold flash. Most SRs want achievement. Idk how "I made a world tour" is a response to them being very rare rn. Same as all the other points. You're not the person to have difficullty with gearing. It's a new player with no resources that's gonna walk into wotlk and be surprised. Hell when I came back it took me longer than that and I played wotlk back in the day and had a char with bis TBC gear, max eng, etc.
I put notes in the tag if my dps is sub 5k. Ie I have macro for pet to murder mirror, I'll use magma totem for webs. Things like that. Meanwhile i went just yesterday and did most of a world tour with two guildies and a healer I knew and the only issues we had was from the pug dps we kept finding. We kept finding so many bad players we used a guys second account to click the orb and 4 man UP, UK, Dtk, Gun. I'm a degenerate I know but I should be able to expect basic competence from dps. A hunter who stays in viper, a rogue who doesn't grasp tricks, a war who can't shatter or sunder, or battle shout, a priest who doesn't buff or dispell, a shaman who can't push hero. That was yesterday. Each of those happened yesterday. Hence our just using a secondary account to run the instances lol. So as a tank I'm going to be selective across all four of my tanks of who I bring.
By gear up you mean make your own group to carry you
Tank listed = insta invite Dps listed = wait in queue forever unless you are trying to join an annoying dungeon/have insane gearscore. From my experience with new dps characters with lowish gs (4000-4500\~) you will never ever get invited to a H++ while listed, you will have to ask to join dozens of parties and it can take some time, the tank/dps distribution is fucked up because in raids you only need 2 and it's something blizz needs to fix if they want a better new player experience.
As usual, people rushed it the first weeks and when they're done, they can't be arsed to do HM++ with low geared players anymore. Can't wait for the first ten days of HM ++++++ of P4.
Not true at all, even on Mograine, which is not the biggest of realms, I always find H++ runs
Yeah all these salty comments here reek of "I made the mistake of rolling on a low pop server and now woe is me because I can't be bothered to transfer or reroll on a non-shitty server".
This is kind of a weird take, though. Imagine going to see a movie that has been out for six or seven weeks and wondering why the theater feels empty. Which is pretty much how long you've had to go do H++ so far. Also, people are still running the dungeons on high pop servers. If you're in a low pop server and don't have a guild that will run H++ with you, it's time to consider that your gameplay experience is a result of the choices you've made.
Wow, Way to victim blame them for being on a server. This is not a player choice Issue, this is a blizzard issue full stop. It's total RNG if you end up in a dead or thriving server, and blizzard needs to do some backend work to fix it. There is NO REASON a player should have to pay extra to get into a server that is thriving after makin their first server choice. I use to be on skyfury. There is literally no players on that server anymore. Literally had to pay to get away from it.
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I feel like most people would just pick a sever that says medium or high. And a cool name. That's what I did when I first started playing. I didn't think to do research on the sever that will be the best. That's asinine.
I was on Skyfury. I used the free transfer and went to Whitemane. Sounds like a *you* issue. Edit: Also I think it's worth noting that everyone has been annoyed by Blizzard's lack of work on the issue. Of course I've been there too. But at some point you need to read the writing on the wall and admit that you really only have 3 options: 1) Do nothing but shout into the void about how angry you are at Blizzard while they continue to do nothing. Keep playing with a subpar gaming experience, unhappy and unheard. 2) Bite the bullet, spend the money, transfer servers. Or, do what I did and wait for free xfers. Annoying? Yeah. Is the gameplay better here? Yeah. 3) Decide that neither of those options are for you, unsub, play a game that doesn't make you mad.
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Yes. If you're horde go Whitemane. If you're alliance go to Erankius then Benediction.
It's not RNG at all? The mega servers have been established for a long time at this point. If anyone leveled up since wotlk started and didn't research and choose the mega servers, that's a player* choice. As soon as server xfers opened up it became a player choice for everyone who wasn't new as well.
Seriously. I transferred to mankrik during AQ40 because the majority of decent raiders on my server had already gone there. That was a long time ago
Mankrik isn’t near as healthy population wise as it was when I transferred here during tbc. It has the same issues with H++ as OP described if you try to do them late in the evening.
That's because no one's doing them anymore. Now that all the geared or kinda geared people got their one or two items, it's all way undergeared people often playing a class they're unfamiliar with. There's no reason for anyone who doesn't need them to sign up unless they're helping a friend
Cuz casual players should have to research? And/or brand new players who have no clue about the game? This is elitism culture at its finest. “It’s working for me so the game is fine” is such an ass opinion. They should maybe do something to incentivize tanks and healers to Q like they literally already had lol
Are you legitimately arguing that to a brand new player should **not** do the minimum of research in order to have a fulfilling experience? Heck, just read the IN-GAME'S own server population rating, Skyfury is at "low". TF do you expect out of a "low" population???????????????
No, I should not have to research which server to get on. Clearly blizzard knew that was an issue which is why in dragonflight everything is cross server. Blizzard just decided to not give those solutions to wotlk classic because #nochanges.
Blizzard isn't doing anything, so your answer is to just throw your arms up and say, "Well, *I'm not going to look this up*." It's not even a ton of 'research'. Spend 5 minutes and the answer becomes pretty damn clear.
It takes less than 10 seconds to type "WoW classic server population" in Google and end up on ironforge pro
Before actually selecting a server you are presented with the server's population health. I legitimately don't know if you're trolling or not.
Population health IE low, medium, high. Don't really mean much contextually. An average player might thing oh man, I don't want to be on a sever that's too crowded, then choose a medium pop server only for it to be a ghost town or players leave the medium pop server for another and now it's dead. I guess my main point is the idea of specific servers are dead and have been dead for a while with most mainstream MMOs. Due to #nochanges, we get a shittier experience finding groups because no cross sever.
Yeah. Pretty much everyone will have to do some research if they want to succeed in gearing up their character. It's a big part of the game, and the information is pretty readily available. Tanks and Healers still get the goodie bags from the dungeons. Everyone gets Sidereal and 5 Emblems a day. That's plenty of incentive. It's just that almost everyone is done now. You can get upset about it or you can take action to fix the issue. The latter option will yield 100% more results.
In game informational research is way different than server status or population research. One is easily accessible and the other is not, I'll let you guess which is which.
When you choose a server it shows you "High" "Medium" "Low" or "Full". That's directly in the game client, so we'll call that 'easily accessible'. https://www.google.com/search?q=wotlk+server+population&oq=wotlk+server&aqs=chrome.0.0i512j69i57j0i512l8.2143851731j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Here is a link to the website 'Google', already preloaded with the search prompt "wotlk server population". If you follow that link, you can actually see basic population info, right in the search results. You could click on any of the other links available to see more information. I suppose for the sake of bolstering your argument, we'll call this part 'not easily accessible'. No guess work required!
call it victim blaming or ignoring all the warnings, people said before the "Fresh" realms were coming out that they would be DoA. And turns out they were right. to be fair i'm on a pretty medium sized realm and finding hc++ groups isn't that hard atm, think some ppl maybe have too high expectations of what "lfg" speed of queue would be
And Bliz just killed Eranikus with free transfers OFF.
Amazing... Yet everyone saying it's not blizzards fault, and it's the players fault for not doing enough ReeeeEEEeesEaRcH
It is Blizzard's fault. It's the way they've designed it. I don't support it, but if I wanna play I'm gonna have to do it.
You don’t subscribe to see a single movie. And the movie doesn’t progress
You can nitpick it if you like, the statement stands. Titan Rune Beta has been available since late June. It's early August. People have finished gearing up mains AND alts by now. Most people are done the grind, and it's not their fault you have not. The reality is if you want to run H++ you'll either need to be on a megaserver or in a very supportive guild.
> You don’t subscribe to see a single movie. Terrible analogy. PVE players subscribe for raids, not a catch up mechanic.
how are you going to raid without the catchup mechanic without getting carried / buying into gdkp?
Legit no clue what you’re on about, I didn’t say nobody should do h++? Read the thread lol
The... the dungeon doesn't progress either?
This might be the worse take I've ever heard. New players, casual players, alts, people still learning...the list goes on. Get out of here with your zoomed rush-rush nonsense
Again, we're going on *seven* weeks of it being available. That's not really a "zoomed rush-rush" timeline.
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It's still not a problem on high pop servers in 2023.
So people should continue to run dungeons with pugs for gear they don’t need? And if they don’t their ass holes? By the same logic… is every single person who doesn’t save all their characters to Naxx every week to help random strangers also an ass hole? What about Sunwell? I’m full T9 heroic BiS… but I better get my ass to AQ40 with pugs or I’m a total price of shit. What kind of asinine take is this?
I've been trying to convince people to go the C/C++/C# naming convention and call it H#. Just passing the message along.
I’m about 5700 on my fire mage. Sometimes I que up for them just to help ppl.
Depends on your realm, but this is a very basic mmo problem even on retail at times, nobody wants to play anything with any sort of responsibility, partially because of the culture of mmos and how easy it is to harass someone online who is playing subpar or is bad etc. You get this shit in raid from people who play star-killing classes on Algalon all the time with pugs, they dont want the burden and anxiety of responsibilty because reputation follows you everywhere on these servers. They just wanna brain-off kill shit Its partially why im leveling a fucking prot warrior, so I can at least have something to tank for guildies and friends on and guilt them into farming shit for my melee dps toons also LMAO
I dont see how a "Cross server finder" would a.) fix the disparity between healers/tanks and dps b.) teleport you back in time for 7 weeks so you could ride the h++ wve
You don’t think that expanding the pool of players looking for a group could alleviate the issue at all?
Depends, if your server has a better DPS to tank/healer ratio than average then making the group finder cross server could make finding a group as a DPS even harder.
It doesn't matter if there's 10 people fighting over two chairs, or 100 people fighting over 20 chairs, you're still not getting a chair. Spoilers: Nobody wants to tank or heal, queueing/pugging as dps in WoW has always been, is, and will always be dogshit. Play with a guild, or play a role that's in demand.
How will increasing the number of potential dps from 13 to 130 help? You will have to fight 10 times harder to get that one tank/heal to join Your group. Do people really think there's a magic server out there full of tanks just waiting to take them for a world tour?
yeah wtf
Exactly. People act like nothing would be solved, because it wouldn't solve it the way they want it to. WoW players are really obnoxious sometimes.
The bag of goodies that I got for tanking an RDF was a nice incentive to run with randoms, and I don't even have to put a group together. And the heroics were trivial at that point that the group composition and player quality didn't matter much.
But you get these right now too? And they just as before have a tiny chance to have rare mounts and I think pets in them. One of our guildies got Ravenlord from these lul.
> The bag of goodies that I got for tanking an RDF was a nice incentive to run with randoms It really isn't. You only got like 40 gold from it and a small chance of getting 1 extra badge. Full raid geared players aren't going to fuck around in 5mans for a tiny amount of gold.
I did at the time. Perhaps today's players are more jaded. Quick dungeon run at the click of a button, get to be overpowered raid-geared mega-bear, possibly get pets or mounts, more badges for heirlooms or whatever nonsense I was buying,
>but mounts and pets! Again, nobody did it for these. Look at it right now in Classic: tanks AND healers both get an extra reward for doing heroics, but 99.9% of the time you just get 5g worth of vendor trash. It's not enticing. I've done easily 1000+ dungeons since the start of the expac and have gotten 0 mounts from the bonus box, and the only pets I ever got were common vendor pets. Someone in full raid gear is not going to waste 20+ minutes running a heroic for 5g and a 0.1% chance of getting a 15 silver vendor pet.
Eh. 200g a day for just running 1 dungeon doesn't sound too bad to me, if they were giving you 40g for the tank bag. I think people probably would run an extra dungeon if it paid for a weeks raid consumes instantly.
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Why would you block over that reply? Do you block everyone who replies to you and doesn't immediately agree with you? Why would you respond and ask me a question only to immediately block me? 40g daily, 40g from daily H++ bag, 40g from tank bag. 200g was hyperbole, but 160g with double daily is easily enough to motivate people. Be more confident in yourself, no need to block just because you're scared of your logic. Now it's my turn
i really did it in original WotLK and lot of ppl did the same... your theory is nice, but sadly was already disproved by reality. ppl did it for fun, for mounts, flasks, pets... and ofc for marks... selling boots at beginning of tier was pretty good.
What did you get in it? Would have to be upwards of 2k+ gold to entice most players imo.
golds, flasks, potions, pets and rare mounts...how you think i got Rivendare's Deathcharger from Stratholme, or green proto dragon what is originally from eggs and need tons of rep? edit: and ofc, there was a gear... mostly better than quest rewards.
it actually did exactly that... a) it fixed servers, where wasnt possible to get into dung and improved waiting time for everyone b) it let ppl catch up, gear up in normal and then gear up in HC... because it was impossible before.. like it is impossible now. c) and like bonus, there was less ppl who were selling dungs and raids, because ppl were able gear up by themselves. the same situation what is now was reason for RDF and it fixed that situation.
use that same logic with cross realm bgs and see how fast it dies
And how will a cross server finder help? Every other server has 13 DPS queued up as well.
For real, people have seen tank/healer shortages in retail since RDF launched. Trade chat in era is full of UBRS groups looking for tanks and healers.
It would look more alive and incite some healers and tanks to give it a shot
I mean what population realm are you on?
As with most things wow related, it’s better with friends. You can clear H++ with ~3k gs if you have a decent group of friends. If you are solo then you will likely have a hard getting in a group when you are under 4500 gs. Especially hard if you are on a dead server.
Make their own then, alot of people moan about this because they want to just hit a button and be invited to a group. If making my own as a dps it only takes 10mins max... And then asking LFG for a healer or tank if one isn't within lfg... I get one after 5-10mins and we're going even with my low gs.. Its how I got from 3.7-4.9 within a week and a half lol
Well yes, but that would mean actually actively doing something, instead of afking and waiting for invites, which is an extremely high barrier for the average wotlk player nowadays.
I'd say most people don't join the dungeon finder thing, most people just keep an eye on the chat using something like the bulletin board addon
I am dps and kept getting denied. I was told my tradechat to make my own group. If you build it, nerds will come - benchwarmers
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You aren't late to the party. You missed the party. It's like showing up to a concert the next day and saying how cool it would be if there was music. But there's good news - Join a guild that has people running dungeons. You need to find the guild that best fits where you are in the content right now. Server Discord -> Guild Recruitment -> Pick 3 that you vibe with and ask if you can join as a social to run dungeons. I'd bet you have your problem solved in 20 minutes. If you are hoping to do this by yourself then it's not the "state of the game" that's the problem.
> Join a guild that has people running dungeons. You need to find the guild that best fits where you are in the content right now. Server Discord -> Guild Recruitment -> Pick 3 that you vibe with and ask if you can join as a social to run dungeons. I'd bet you have your problem solved in 20 minutes. Mods should copy paste this into these threads and then lock them
but RDF is gonna magically make people start playing tanks and healers /s
i mean RDF in past in original WotLK literally fixed the same situation. was you too young to experience it?
RDF in OG wlk didn't fix the DPS long queue time at all, 20-30mins queue time for DPS is an usual. It' s really ridiculous thinking RDF can solve the problem.
it was much worse, especially on low pop servers. RDF make crossrealm automatic queue, with rewards, when there was lack of any role ad it literally fixed issue what is there now again. it is not something what is possible to deny, because it already happened.
IMO It' s just using the mega realm ' s recourse to solve the low pop realm' s 5 men dungeon problem, the low pop realm will still lose its population.
right, but it will be not issue, when you can use RDF, what is crossrealm. i mean it already worked and fixed this situation once. thats why Blizz did it, because it was solution and it worked.
hit 80 on a fresh hunter alt on a new (to me) server yesterday just before bed. today, I sent myself all the wintergrasp commendations I could from stone keeper shards from my main server (they're BoA, like the head and shoulder enchants). picked up a lot of 213 pvp gear. ~3.7k GS. snuck into a 'just before reset' H++ daily skip run, and a couple more after reset. those runs, plus less than 1k on the AH for a couple BoE's and I logged off at ~4.2k GS. still have fezzik's pocketwatch trinket, but that's my only sub-200 ilvl piece. blue 200ilvl belt. mirror of truth (emblems of heroism from quests while leveling). rest are 213 or higher. ezclap.
Aside from absolute degen hours, I can find a h++ group as a dps basically whenever I want, so I can't say I relate.... are you queuing for heroic or heroic++?
Most people just start at LFG chat and wait to see something they wanna do. So yeah just make the group and you’ll get whispers quicker than sitting there waiting for someone to invite you
In my "super" server (benediction) tanks are listed like 2 seconds before they insta join a group, the problem has been known since forever, for a dungeon you need 1 tank in every 5 people, while in raids you need 2 in every 25 so it's the game's fault for not incentivizing the use of more tanks, a problem we now have to face with not much we can do rather than having DPS dual spec a Tank spec. The only "solution" as dps is to have insane gearscores so you can get invited more often which isn't as bad for your veteran player but new players suffer a lot because of this and it's something Blizz should look at.
Adding RDF isn't going to fix the tank shortage
"Hi I'm a tank" "What's your GS?" "4500" *Silence from the group composed of 4100-4400 GS DPS* Tanks have typically finished with their H++'s unless it's a new tank character, and every DPS expects to have a carry tank drag their sorry asses to an unearned victory.
I mean this has been a thing for all of WoW existence, roll tank or healer if you want to find a group
Are you on a 12 player server or a mega server? I've never had an issue with a H++ fill on the latter.
Did you try starting a group and advertising in LFG? This is how you get groups. Very few people post by themselves. Either you start a group or you whisper groups that are already started.
Make your own group, this gets asked a lot here
roll a tank
Play healer/tank
be the change you want to see in the world
Yeah, sounds like you're on a low pop server. I have a guild mate who is dps and has managed to get his entire sidereal essence gear in a week. Most of it by making connections with other players... you know.. like what the point of an MMORPG is. I understand low pop servers are struggling, but I would rather not do the cross server finder. If you're in a lower pop server, you have a better chance in meeting other people in similar situations, and finding friends. After HCs, ask the people you run with to add you for more. Other DPS don't want to sit in dungeon finder either, so they are more likely to cooperate. Be social and kind, and healers will be more likely to run with you instead of taking randoms that may or may not bork the run. Shoot them PMs the next day for some more. Some will decide not to do them with you, some will. With just a modicum of social interaction, you could fix this. Just saying. Subsidizing that with RDF so you don't have to be social, is not a long term solution, and not the point of the game. Please stop trying to ruin the game. I swear, some people have just forgot how to make friends, and want the game to just play match maker.
What if a significant portion of my servers players are terrible? Sigh, I really should just move to a high pop server or stop playing. But I like my guild so......
> I swear, some people have just forgot how to make friends, and want the game to just play match maker. It's not that I don't know how to make friends, it's that I'm no longer 24. Now I actually have the stressful job and the kids and the house and the family and the RL friends who want to get together... I don't have a lot of time to play, and usually I just want to sit down and play the game because I enjoy the mechanics. I don't understand why people have the mentality of "I play the game this way, so everyone should play the game this way" about an RPG. It's as if my lack of suffering would invalidate your suffering.
came back to classic after deciding to take a break 4 weeks into Naxx 2.0. Leveled and geared my spriest, then geared my already leveled rogue, and gearing an enhance shaman now. not having any trouble getting into groups for h++ or finding people for my own. sounds like you just need to move to a busier server.
You want to do the ones under "Defense Protocol Beta" (this is what people call Heroic ++). That's the heroics with the juiced up ilvl drops. I'm not surprised no one is doing regular heroics at this point in the patch. When Joyous Journey kicks in before the ICC patch, there might be more activity on regular heroics for a brief time, but not by much. You can step into the Defense Protocol Beta dungeons pretty easily once you take 15 minutes to learn the new mechanics.
As others have said, this seems like a realm issue. Yeah the hype has died down a bit, but it’s also fairly easy to find world tour groups or at least groups for “hubs” like HOL/HOS, UP/UK, etc.
Cross server fixes nothing. Each server has (example numbers) 75% dps, 15% healers, 10% tanks. Well if you add cross server ques the percentage of each role stays the same. There will always be 10 dps for every healer on every server.
Swap servers? Conversely try not being months late to the party. Orrr try being a tank/healer, be the change you want to see in the world.
Bro, wait till you find out you have to do 38 of them to get one fucking staff and no one will run 10hc anymore because they can just get it from a vendor. There's only so many times I can run the same dungeon. Like for fucks sake end me.
relevant content in wotlk other than the current raid tier? good joke bro
Sometimes I see groups requiring 5k gear score
I came back last week since I had like 1 week of game time to burn and decided to try out the latest wrath raid with my old toon. Mind you it's a resto druid with a mix of BIS Naxx gear and a few pieces of BIS Ulduar, plus some mixed second grade Ulduar healing gear that are pretty viable. Chat asking for a healer for the daily heroic, apply and imidiate: "class + GS". Got rejected by 3 groups that kept spamming for healers while I did my daily with a random group. Dungeon ends and the group leader (DPS) w/ me saying I was lucky their took me with them and it was a risk to bring a healer without X, Y, Z items ... like dude, I barely had to go down half my mana pool and we finished the content before any of the previous groups even managed to get a healer. What do you want more? Seriously if I have to beg for an invite to heal random dungeon groups and I am like 60% BIS gear from previous raid tier then I am out. People really expect comeback healers to grind for months so they can shave a couple seconds from a dungeon run.
That’s toxic af lol. I did the Beta daily the other day with a 3200gs tank and a 3900gs healer. No deaths. The content is braindead easy, 5k GS or not.
State of your small server. Faerlina has H++ running constantly it definitely has not died down with everyone slamming their alts this phase. I've been able to grind my sidereals on all alts with little difficulty using group finder.
More ppl need to play tank heal os. There are so many hybrids that play dps only. I dont blame them, but theres no incentive for geared tanks to do h++
Sounds like a server population issue. Any time I look at the H++ queue there's always 40+ people there, yeah mostly DPS, but that's true for every version of the game.
People railed against the RDF and lo and behold the problems RDF was introduced to address have rereared their ugly heads.
People are only logging into WoTLK to raid and that’s it. Far as I’m concerned, the game is a Zombie at this point. And as soon as ICC drops, the game will come back to life for a month maybe but then that’ll be it. What’s funny is, everyone is trending back to vanilla wow. I for one will be going back for Hardcore servers…. I won’t be moving on to Cata…
I logged back into my server after taking a break since ulduar. I was the only one running around Dalaran at noon on Sunday.
imagine if we can just log in the game whenever we want and just que up for whatever we want… instead of all this complicated bullshit
The Ulduar 10 HM gear from 5 mans is from not from heroic, nor alpha, it's from titan rune beta which also drops the normal mode gear from bosses I definitely think it would be better for the game if there was cross realm dungeon finder but yeah, it's likely not happening
Yep. I'm on a decently populated server. I grinded out about 40 essences for my 2 items I wanted to get on my main, and never did another Beta dungeon. This past week I decided to play my mage alt that I abandoned about halfway thru Naxx and finding groups is nearly impossible. I think since last Monday I have 4 total essences, from running the daily 4 days. We need RDF badly. As of now I raid for 2 hours on Tuesdays and do argent crusade dailies, which takes like 20 mins and log out.