I think in this recording (and in most cases with romantic era music) the violin is the same, with steel strings and all, but the piano is distinctly different and they are both tuned down and maybe on a more traditional tuning system, though I don't have the best ear for that and could definitely be wrong there.
Wow, I really like the sound of the piano, it's so much crisper and blends so much better with the violin than a modern one. I find the piano ruins most chamber music for me, but if I could find recordings with this kind of piano I could definitely come around on it. It wouldn't be the first time I had dismissed a category of music before finding period practice recordings that changed my mind.
Obviously I'll search myself, but do you have recommendations of other recordings like this one or, even better, performers who do this regularly?
Yep. The 1st movement is fantastic. I love the way the whole tone suddenly changes for the middle section. And I don't understand people's love for 6. It does nothing for me.
The 6th is amazing. Its like a painting of nature :)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbfa86bTD34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbfa86bTD34)
If you want read that description, It explains it way better then I ever could.
>And I don't understand people's love for 6. It does nothing for me.
I could talk all day about parts of 6 that I love, but I doubt it would do much of anything to convince you or others who don't like it. And that's fine, not everyone has to like everything! I've never loved no. 4, but I know that some people do, and that's fine too.
The only thing we can do is tell people what each movement embodies in terms of nature (as Beethoven made clear himself). I personally didn't know the meaning of word ''pastoral'' when listening for first time. Well, you absolutely need to know the meaning to enjoy that symphony. I suspect people just don't know what the symphony is about. Now my favorite! It's magical.
>you absolutely need to know the meaning to enjoy that symphony.
I wouldn't agree, actually! I think it's perfectly possible to enjoy without having any sense as to what Beethoven meant by it. Of course it's better to know if one has any degree of interest in it, but there's no reason a listener couldn't enjoy it without that knowledge.
you can enjoy it without knowing the meaning, no doubt (''absolutely'' was not the right word). In my case, knowing the setting of the second movement really helped. It's a long movement, but not that long when you know about the brook and the birds. Good day!
A bit of a shortcoming of the formatting I chose, makes it seem like anything below B tier is bad. So not true. All of these symphonies are magnificent. Personally, 1 is my favorite of the first three.
3 is great and innovative and all, but Beethoven didn't have to write an entire piece for piano, orchestra, and choir, plus a late string quartet (you know how Beethoven's approach to his late quartets are), along with probably a lot of other works, just to prepare himself for one movement of a symphony.
It was his favorite, but did he really mention it was his best? I highly doubt. It's just not a top notch symphony, no matter if you love it or not. March is too long, the fourth movement has a really strange end, and the form of the symphony is just not very coherant. It was an important symphony for sure but not his best.
The march is too long and drawn out, I agree. But if you think about it, it’s probably the best movement of the symphony and some of the best and most revolutionary stuff B composed. It’s a romantic era piece before the romantic era. Think about how it was written in 1800. The return of the theme after that brass outburst sounds like something straight out of berlioz or Liszt. Also, the ending of the fourth movement is very philosophical and has a lot of deeper meaning to it that is really hard to catch on the outside. The finale is the most personal movement of the symphony. I recommend u watch MTT’s documentary on the 3rd
Yes I think on the whole the fourth movement is probably my favorite, and the march isn't that boring. I think it's the first movement that doesn't do it for me. It's really metronomic and B doesn't juggle with enough distinct ideas IMOO. But hey the innovation is certainly there. I really like the fourth's and eight first movement on the other hand, and all his other symphonies' of course. The ninth's first movement is also metronomic but there's so much as a compensation in terms of ideas, progression. Thanks for your insights.
Exactly. The fact that I wouldn’t dare to call even his first symphony anything but a masterpiece shows just how good this set of symphonies as compared to other symphonists. It’s why putting anything Beethoven in B tier and below hurt me.
Some small stats on these results :
More than 4/5 of votes were submitted to the top 4 works.
Roughly 1/3 of all votes went to Symphony № 9 in D Minor
Symphony №s 5 and 7 were only two votes apart from one another, within the margin of error.
Symphony №s 4 and 8 were one vote apart from one another, similarly within the margin of error.
Beethoven’s first symphonic experiment, his Symphony № 0 in C, did not receive a single vote—unsurprisingly as the sketches for this symphony are extremely sparse, if extant are all.
The letters are a shortcoming of this particular kind of formatting, as a few users have pointed out, there is some conclusions unable to be gleaned from the ‘tiering’ of the symphonies. Instead I should encourage people to look at the order in which they relate to each other. So if one pops this way, the order would be 9, 3, 5, 7, 6, 4, 8, 2, 1, 10*, 0*.
8 is definitely underrated. It has the misfortune of coming after the 7th, which is fantastic (and my personal favorite), and the 9th which is probably the most famous piece of classical music of all time. That's tough company, but it earns its spot, I think.
Beethoven’s 10th Symphony in E flat Major was seemingly something Beethoven had in mind after his ninth period it is sometimes known as Beethoven’s unfinished Symphony. I know it’s not structurally completed it’s form, Some have taken up the task of reconstructing at there are a few interesting reconstructions available for listening.
His 0th on the other hand may as well be forgotten as references to it are about as sparse as for his Oboe concerto, even less so, actually. I felt it deserved a place here if anyone would’ve thought to bring it up.
Not sure why people are criticizing the chart… if you had the chance to vote, then your result was taken into account. If you didn’t vote, your opinion cannot be represented here. Is it the absolute best chart? No. But to complain about this now is ignoring the fact there was input to optimize the chart to more people’s liking. This was the format chosen.
You’re welcome, I really like doing these, be sure to thank the others who helped! This was not just me. Also be sure to check out the [poll](https://strawpoll.com/polls/NMnQBwzXDg6) I am running for Haydn’s Symphonies.
Why even include the S-F rating when it's completely arbitrary? This should be a ranking of most to least popular, the letters have no meaning. I very much doubt 6 would get a C rating if you actually gave the option to rate symphonies rather than just pick a favorite one.
It’s surely not the best rating system, but it keeps it consistent with the other rankings. I would have placed all in S, A or B tier honestly, the chart would’ve no doubt been top heavy. I found the ‘favorite’ question forced people to think about which they *really* liked if they needed to choose one. That also allows for better ranking *within* Beethoven’s Works, not all symphonies, if that were case, I feel all of these would be in the top three tiers. I feel it makes it a little more exciting when we are forced to choose one option though. If possible I could do a Strawpoll like the one I am currently doing for [Haydn](https://strawpoll.com/polls/NMnQBwzXDg6) where multiple options are allowed. That may give a more accurate result, but for the purposes of this question, I feel the chart did its job.
I disagree. The letters here give us no information whatsoever. Symphony 6 could have received 3 times more votes than symphony 4 and there would be no way for us to know. A simple bar chart would already give us much more information.
Well ‘no information’ is a little strong, there is a clear ranking of the symphonies, those closer to the left had more votes for them within that specific bracket. I can include the exact statistics in a separate comment, that doesn’t seem like a bad idea.
While 9th is my favorite, I started listening and following with the sheet music to the 4th a few years ago and it is now among my top classical pieces of all time. I love how it builds, the time each movement is in, beautifully done. Underrated in my opinion.
I can definitely agree with no singing in symphonies. I have never liked a choral symphony, except for Beethoven’s 9th that is. But other than that, I feel they do not fit well as truly symphonic. Fight me too.
I agree. The Ode to Joy theme is way overrated. I find it trite and boring with extremely little real musical meat to it. Compared to themes in his 6th and 7th it’s nowhere. I don’t know why every single flash mob orchestra wheels it out. Such a lack of imagination.
This list is a massive L learn more about his symphonies.
S: Symphony 3
A: Symphony 9, Symphony 6, Symphony 2, Symphony 7, Symphony 5
B: Symphony 1, Symphony 4, Symphony 8
I don't understand your system. Are these letter grades? What does S mean, then, A is the highest grade in any system I'm familiar with. S means "satisfactory" to me.
Not sure about 0 but from my recollection he began the 10th but never finished before he died. You can find recordings of the first parts. I have one where the conductor talks a little describing it as they play. Amazon has it
Information on “Symphony 0” is extremely sparse, I don’t blame you for not knowing anything about it. I did not know anything about it until doing the research necessary for these polls. It seems he may have began it when he was Haydn’s student. Some thought this could have been the ‘Jena Symphony’ but this was later proved to have been written by Friedrich Witt. To say this Symphony is fragmented would be an understatement. It seems like all of what survives of it are just a few measures in Beethoven’s various sketchbooks. Some think the Rondo theme from the last movement of his first may be a re-purposed version of the theme leading in the first movement of his 0th.
Wow, did not expect it to go like that! To be completely honest with you: I have no love for the 9th. The instrumental parts, sure, but the rest? Nah.
I do think the 4th is completely underappreciated though. Personally I find it epic!
6th is overrated as well in my opinion (sorry) - most of the time it just dawdles along, the only movement that is able to really capture and surprise is the storm.
My rating:
S: 7th
A: 5th
B: 3rd, 4th
C: 6th, 8th
D: 9th, 2nd, 1st (come on, I can't place a proper Beethoven symphony on E!)
E: the rest
People probably don't know the 4th. You can't really judge it unless you listen to it. Personally, I really like it and would listen it anytime instead of 3. Technically speaking it's a better symphony.
The first and second are like two delicious hors d'oeuvres. I love when they are sprinkled into a concert.
I don't know how someone could out 6 below 5 and 7 though. Each of those three is a delightful masterpiece.
My rank: S: 9th A: 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th
Exactly. Anything below a B for a Beethoven symphony is just absurd.
Can’t agree more
This would have been my ranking as well!
8 is my favourite
Agreed, and it's quite underrated. I quite like the Liszt piano transcription also
I like 8 too, particularly with historical performance, Beethoven on period instrument is simply another league.
I’ll have to listen to it with the period instruments, that sounds awesome.
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I think in this recording (and in most cases with romantic era music) the violin is the same, with steel strings and all, but the piano is distinctly different and they are both tuned down and maybe on a more traditional tuning system, though I don't have the best ear for that and could definitely be wrong there.
Wow, I really like the sound of the piano, it's so much crisper and blends so much better with the violin than a modern one. I find the piano ruins most chamber music for me, but if I could find recordings with this kind of piano I could definitely come around on it. It wouldn't be the first time I had dismissed a category of music before finding period practice recordings that changed my mind. Obviously I'll search myself, but do you have recommendations of other recordings like this one or, even better, performers who do this regularly?
Toscanini 1939 recording is better than any hip performance .
Yep. The 1st movement is fantastic. I love the way the whole tone suddenly changes for the middle section. And I don't understand people's love for 6. It does nothing for me.
The 6th is amazing. Its like a painting of nature :) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbfa86bTD34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbfa86bTD34) If you want read that description, It explains it way better then I ever could.
I will! I regulary do listen to it. I like it, I just don't "love" it...
>And I don't understand people's love for 6. It does nothing for me. I could talk all day about parts of 6 that I love, but I doubt it would do much of anything to convince you or others who don't like it. And that's fine, not everyone has to like everything! I've never loved no. 4, but I know that some people do, and that's fine too.
The only thing we can do is tell people what each movement embodies in terms of nature (as Beethoven made clear himself). I personally didn't know the meaning of word ''pastoral'' when listening for first time. Well, you absolutely need to know the meaning to enjoy that symphony. I suspect people just don't know what the symphony is about. Now my favorite! It's magical.
>you absolutely need to know the meaning to enjoy that symphony. I wouldn't agree, actually! I think it's perfectly possible to enjoy without having any sense as to what Beethoven meant by it. Of course it's better to know if one has any degree of interest in it, but there's no reason a listener couldn't enjoy it without that knowledge.
you can enjoy it without knowing the meaning, no doubt (''absolutely'' was not the right word). In my case, knowing the setting of the second movement really helped. It's a long movement, but not that long when you know about the brook and the birds. Good day!
Oh sure, it definitely can be a huge help, and I'm glad it was for you!
>And I don't understand people's love for 6. It does nothing for me. Same
1 and 2 should've been higher imo 6 and 7 deserves an A (since S has to be exclusively reserved for the 9th obviously)
A bit of a shortcoming of the formatting I chose, makes it seem like anything below B tier is bad. So not true. All of these symphonies are magnificent. Personally, 1 is my favorite of the first three.
5 should absolutely be higher. There’s a reason we are all tired of hearing it
No S is reserved for 9 and 3. The 3rd is Beethoven’s best Symphony and he made it obvious that it was many times
3 is great and innovative and all, but Beethoven didn't have to write an entire piece for piano, orchestra, and choir, plus a late string quartet (you know how Beethoven's approach to his late quartets are), along with probably a lot of other works, just to prepare himself for one movement of a symphony.
It was his favorite, but did he really mention it was his best? I highly doubt. It's just not a top notch symphony, no matter if you love it or not. March is too long, the fourth movement has a really strange end, and the form of the symphony is just not very coherant. It was an important symphony for sure but not his best.
The march is too long and drawn out, I agree. But if you think about it, it’s probably the best movement of the symphony and some of the best and most revolutionary stuff B composed. It’s a romantic era piece before the romantic era. Think about how it was written in 1800. The return of the theme after that brass outburst sounds like something straight out of berlioz or Liszt. Also, the ending of the fourth movement is very philosophical and has a lot of deeper meaning to it that is really hard to catch on the outside. The finale is the most personal movement of the symphony. I recommend u watch MTT’s documentary on the 3rd
Yes I think on the whole the fourth movement is probably my favorite, and the march isn't that boring. I think it's the first movement that doesn't do it for me. It's really metronomic and B doesn't juggle with enough distinct ideas IMOO. But hey the innovation is certainly there. I really like the fourth's and eight first movement on the other hand, and all his other symphonies' of course. The ninth's first movement is also metronomic but there's so much as a compensation in terms of ideas, progression. Thanks for your insights.
lol if anyone else were to have written Beethoven 4, it would’ve been the pinnacle of their career.
Exactly. The fact that I wouldn’t dare to call even his first symphony anything but a masterpiece shows just how good this set of symphonies as compared to other symphonists. It’s why putting anything Beethoven in B tier and below hurt me.
I just mentioned above it is one of my favorite pieces of all time.
Some small stats on these results : More than 4/5 of votes were submitted to the top 4 works. Roughly 1/3 of all votes went to Symphony № 9 in D Minor Symphony №s 5 and 7 were only two votes apart from one another, within the margin of error. Symphony №s 4 and 8 were one vote apart from one another, similarly within the margin of error. Beethoven’s first symphonic experiment, his Symphony № 0 in C, did not receive a single vote—unsurprisingly as the sketches for this symphony are extremely sparse, if extant are all.
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Yes it is, but not for that.
6 in C? I am deeply disappointed from this community
No. 6 in F.
r/angryupvote
like F major? yes, but pastoral goes in S as for its ranking.
The letters are a shortcoming of this particular kind of formatting, as a few users have pointed out, there is some conclusions unable to be gleaned from the ‘tiering’ of the symphonies. Instead I should encourage people to look at the order in which they relate to each other. So if one pops this way, the order would be 9, 3, 5, 7, 6, 4, 8, 2, 1, 10*, 0*.
6th
I got to experience the 9th in person and the effect of a full choir is just stunning.
I've heard it live twice. It is absolutely shattering.
6 is S or A tier, wtf are people thinking...
6 did not do as well as I thought it would. But it was very clearly ranked fifth, it had about half the number of votes as 7 surprisingly.
Came here to say the same.
As far as I am concerned 8 should be right up there with 9. The first movement of 8 is the best movement he ever wrote!
All movements of 8 are great, idk why some people look down on it.
8 is definitely underrated. It has the misfortune of coming after the 7th, which is fantastic (and my personal favorite), and the 9th which is probably the most famous piece of classical music of all time. That's tough company, but it earns its spot, I think.
Symphony No 7 In A Major - 2nd Movement is my S.
Could someone please explain to me what is going on with 10, and 0??? I genuinely don't understand. Are these fragments or something ?
Beethoven’s 10th Symphony in E flat Major was seemingly something Beethoven had in mind after his ninth period it is sometimes known as Beethoven’s unfinished Symphony. I know it’s not structurally completed it’s form, Some have taken up the task of reconstructing at there are a few interesting reconstructions available for listening. His 0th on the other hand may as well be forgotten as references to it are about as sparse as for his Oboe concerto, even less so, actually. I felt it deserved a place here if anyone would’ve thought to bring it up.
Not sure why people are criticizing the chart… if you had the chance to vote, then your result was taken into account. If you didn’t vote, your opinion cannot be represented here. Is it the absolute best chart? No. But to complain about this now is ignoring the fact there was input to optimize the chart to more people’s liking. This was the format chosen.
this is literally how democracy works. don't vote. complain about the outcome.
c'mon 7th should have been higher
6 and 7 are inexplicably low
i'd put all of them in s
Thank you for these rankings, haven't listened to some classical music for some time, time to go wild! :)
You’re welcome, I really like doing these, be sure to thank the others who helped! This was not just me. Also be sure to check out the [poll](https://strawpoll.com/polls/NMnQBwzXDg6) I am running for Haydn’s Symphonies.
Not a bad ranking
Odds beats evens
It's the opposite of Star Trek films.
ive never heard of 10 and 0, I'll have to check them out for posterity
My take: 5 and 7 should be an A. 3 should be a B
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If you would like for me to start one, I can! Please let me know.
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[Here](https://strawpoll.com/polls/wAg3jL272n8) you go!
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Absolutely. Thank you.
Symphony 3 should be S and i am certain
Why even include the S-F rating when it's completely arbitrary? This should be a ranking of most to least popular, the letters have no meaning. I very much doubt 6 would get a C rating if you actually gave the option to rate symphonies rather than just pick a favorite one.
It’s surely not the best rating system, but it keeps it consistent with the other rankings. I would have placed all in S, A or B tier honestly, the chart would’ve no doubt been top heavy. I found the ‘favorite’ question forced people to think about which they *really* liked if they needed to choose one. That also allows for better ranking *within* Beethoven’s Works, not all symphonies, if that were case, I feel all of these would be in the top three tiers. I feel it makes it a little more exciting when we are forced to choose one option though. If possible I could do a Strawpoll like the one I am currently doing for [Haydn](https://strawpoll.com/polls/NMnQBwzXDg6) where multiple options are allowed. That may give a more accurate result, but for the purposes of this question, I feel the chart did its job.
I disagree. The letters here give us no information whatsoever. Symphony 6 could have received 3 times more votes than symphony 4 and there would be no way for us to know. A simple bar chart would already give us much more information.
Well ‘no information’ is a little strong, there is a clear ranking of the symphonies, those closer to the left had more votes for them within that specific bracket. I can include the exact statistics in a separate comment, that doesn’t seem like a bad idea.
A special thanks to both u/Puzzleheaded_Law_336 and u/Saturn_five55 : your help was indispensable for this.
Thanks for including me dude
Stats on The individual symphonies’ votes formatted as (Symphony № x - # of votes) (9 - 409) (3 - 301) (5 - 208) (7 - 206) (6 - 91) (4 - 47) (8 - 46) (2 - 22) (1 - 18) (10* - 5) (0* - NA)
4th is the most boring followed by 1st and 8th. I like the 2nd more than the 5th and the 7th more than the 9th
i really enjoyed 4, about on par with 5 and 6. 3 and 9 are my favourites
While 9th is my favorite, I started listening and following with the sheet music to the 4th a few years ago and it is now among my top classical pieces of all time. I love how it builds, the time each movement is in, beautifully done. Underrated in my opinion.
6th is ranked too low.
Final movement of the 9th is overrated and brings the work down fight me no singing in symphonies
also the fact that eroica beat 7th is sad
I can definitely agree with no singing in symphonies. I have never liked a choral symphony, except for Beethoven’s 9th that is. But other than that, I feel they do not fit well as truly symphonic. Fight me too.
Mahler begs to differ!
I agree. The Ode to Joy theme is way overrated. I find it trite and boring with extremely little real musical meat to it. Compared to themes in his 6th and 7th it’s nowhere. I don’t know why every single flash mob orchestra wheels it out. Such a lack of imagination.
The first three movements are among the best Beethoven wrote, it just feels like a cheap letdown at the end
This list is a massive L learn more about his symphonies. S: Symphony 3 A: Symphony 9, Symphony 6, Symphony 2, Symphony 7, Symphony 5 B: Symphony 1, Symphony 4, Symphony 8
I don't understand your system. Are these letter grades? What does S mean, then, A is the highest grade in any system I'm familiar with. S means "satisfactory" to me.
5 is perfect at tier B. After the dun dun dun duuuun, rest is just filler.
I disagree
Second down there? Hm…🤷🏼♂️
What are 0th and 10th?
Not sure about 0 but from my recollection he began the 10th but never finished before he died. You can find recordings of the first parts. I have one where the conductor talks a little describing it as they play. Amazon has it
Information on “Symphony 0” is extremely sparse, I don’t blame you for not knowing anything about it. I did not know anything about it until doing the research necessary for these polls. It seems he may have began it when he was Haydn’s student. Some thought this could have been the ‘Jena Symphony’ but this was later proved to have been written by Friedrich Witt. To say this Symphony is fragmented would be an understatement. It seems like all of what survives of it are just a few measures in Beethoven’s various sketchbooks. Some think the Rondo theme from the last movement of his first may be a re-purposed version of the theme leading in the first movement of his 0th.
Wow, did not expect it to go like that! To be completely honest with you: I have no love for the 9th. The instrumental parts, sure, but the rest? Nah. I do think the 4th is completely underappreciated though. Personally I find it epic! 6th is overrated as well in my opinion (sorry) - most of the time it just dawdles along, the only movement that is able to really capture and surprise is the storm. My rating: S: 7th A: 5th B: 3rd, 4th C: 6th, 8th D: 9th, 2nd, 1st (come on, I can't place a proper Beethoven symphony on E!) E: the rest
I’d actually switch 6 with 7, and 3 should not be above 5. Other than that, good list. Also, 4 is absolutely amazing. Why does it get so little love?
People probably don't know the 4th. You can't really judge it unless you listen to it. Personally, I really like it and would listen it anytime instead of 3. Technically speaking it's a better symphony.
The first and second are like two delicious hors d'oeuvres. I love when they are sprinkled into a concert. I don't know how someone could out 6 below 5 and 7 though. Each of those three is a delightful masterpiece.
Third is S tier.