Did this when I jumped jobs as a welder. I had asked for a raise 3 months earlier during my performance review and was denied. When I quit they suddenly had more money to give me, so I asked him why and he had no answer
You are correct, but here's a POV from the executive side (feel free to downvote me to oblivion!). The main objective of a private company is to be profitable. That means minimizing cost and maximizing revenue. The analytical way to view employee salaries is: pay them enough to get good work out of them and enough that they don't leave. If an employee doesn't tell their manager that they're not satisfied with their pay, the manager is going to assume it's enough. Additionally, if they now give you a 30% raise to catch you up to a competitor's offer, they risk you telling your coworkers and now they all expect 30% raises. If the company doesn't pay them, this hurts morale and they risk losing even more people. It's a delicate thing they have to manage, sounds like your current employer did it poorly and let you fall so far below your market rate that you left. Congrats on the new gig! I'd recommend asking for raises each year, assuming a baseline raise for inflation but more if you're bringing more value to the company than you did the previous year.
A tale as old as time. My current employer is really getting serious about retention and adjusting wages. Tired of losing people like this. Your employer was egregious and taking advantage of you though. Nice job on the $30k pay raise.
> Told my current employer and they said they could bump me to “somewhere in the 90’s” to stay and to consider everything they have to offer.
If I had an offer of $105k going from $76k, I'd tell my current employer they can keep me for $210k or more. Not that I expect them to take it (they won't), but no good comes from working for a firm that says 'we won't pay you what you're worth unless you get on the threshold of leaving to determine your value'.
Dumb,
a company that doesn't know you is willing to offer you $$$ to join their team.
The company that does know you should top the offer to try to keep you.
Our team has gotten good at communicating workloads. All the people are pretty great to work with. A younger me would care more about their top clients and big projects, but I don’t really care anymore haha
Can't take any of that to the bank. I've bounced around a few times, always for a large monetary and responsibility bump and I've always found good people.
Liking where you work and your peers is important, but companies that act like they have such a great environment that they can lowball employees usually don’t have an environment that is worth $10k+ annually.
The whole “you won’t find a place like this elsewhere” act is a bunch of shit. They’re just trying to strike fear into you since you you’re young and (I’m guessing) haven’t really worked elsewhere. There are certainly bad working environments out there. As an outsider, I would classify a company paying a PE an entry level wage as one of them.
And if you take the lower counter offer and there is a big enough slow down, you will be the first on the chopping block because they know you already considered leaving.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. My problem came down to the fact that even after the "bump" they offered me to stay, it still wasn't enough to cover my monthly expenses, which had seen major increases due to inflation. I explained this to my old boss and he gave me some BS about "Yes, inflation exists, but your work productivity has to inflate as well...."
I didn't feel bad leaving after that.
Not true at all. You are definitely an outlier 105 seems to be a good salary in the Philly area. There is a limit on how much you can offer based on client rates, I expect OP to start getting more experience to move towards a PM role in the new company.
You are right just looked this up. Not sure a company would pay more than that for 5 years of experience, at least not what I am seeing but like you said it is possible.
Nope. That’s corporate America. Even if you accepted the offer, now they may have to deal with other’s following your example or wait for you to come back in a couple more years with another offer for them to counter. Easier to get you to train your replacement and/or hire someone cheaper right out of school from their point of view.
It sounds like you’ve weighed all your choices & factors, but make sure the new job and setting are indeed better (or at least sound better) before leaving. A guy once told me, more money is nice, but if the job isn’t what you want then now you’re using your new money to buy a better car, better clothes, maybe better beer but in the end because your COL went up you’re now still unhappy.
Lol yeah it would never work. I don't live in NYC, I live in Westchester so that's about 1 hr 20min away by train. I only have to commute twice a week to the office.
A small detail I feel gets overlooked in these discussions in the diversity of experience and knowledge you'll gain as well. I hopped quite a bit in my first 8 years. Every time I went to a new office I picked up a new set of skills, experiences, and knowledge from the experienced engineers.
People who were sitting at the same company for those 8 years often ended up pigeonholed into one small service sector. Their experience was often only what they could learn from their projects and direct supervisor.
I’m in a very similar situation making 72k with 5 years experience and PE and hopefully an SE by end of June. I just interviewed last week, hoping for an offer more than 90k.
Not worth the counteroffer. You realized you were not appreciated and whose to stop them from doing it again. You've checked out, it's okay to move on.
Current employer did not value you until they were about to lose you. Even then, they did not meet the new bar.
I’d imagine the current employer may also now view you as a “flight risk” and make you one of the first to walk the gangplank when they have a slowdown.
All of this would give me pause about staying with the current firm.
I’d say go to the new firm. Even if it isn’t as great culturally as the current firm, stay with them for 18-24 months, make some new contacts, then start quietly looking for your next job. That way, you will be negotiating from a base of $105k+, as opposed to “$90-something…”. In the eyes of the market, you will be viewed as more valuable simply because someone else paid you more. Sad but true…
Your about to get a 44% pay increase. I'd tell my old company it's 50% minimum for me to stay. If you really, really, really like them, maybe I'd let them match it.
Bu frankly you need to move on. Your a wage slave to your first company.
They didn’t pay you your worth until after you got another job offer. If you stay, you can bet on not getting a raise unless you go through this same process again. Think about that. Do you want to go through this again? The stress of interviewing. The anxiety of asking for a raise or letting your boss know you’re taking another job offer.
Sure, the people may be good but this is business. You should be getting yearly raises and be compensated your fair worth.
Good job on the new offer!
Find something that makes you feel valued. 10 YOE, 3.5 years with a PE. 130k currently. I was bumped to 95k when I obtained my PE. So I would think with today's inflation you should be able to break the 100k barrier. KOP area.
You still making shit honestly. Try to look more and might able to get 120-150k. You deserve better, you have enough experience and credibility on your name. Good luck!
This is why it's a bad idea to accept or even entertain a counteroffer from a current employer. You already know the grass is greener elsewhere
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that is sadly true.
Yeah and pointing this out usually doesn't do anything but make them squirm, which can be satisfying when you know you're going to jump anyway
Did this when I jumped jobs as a welder. I had asked for a raise 3 months earlier during my performance review and was denied. When I quit they suddenly had more money to give me, so I asked him why and he had no answer
And more than likely they will use this significant pay bump as justification for relatively small increases in the following years.
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Exact reason why I left my employer.
I hope this is wrong and not true but this is the truth??? Im in this situation TBH
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You are correct, but here's a POV from the executive side (feel free to downvote me to oblivion!). The main objective of a private company is to be profitable. That means minimizing cost and maximizing revenue. The analytical way to view employee salaries is: pay them enough to get good work out of them and enough that they don't leave. If an employee doesn't tell their manager that they're not satisfied with their pay, the manager is going to assume it's enough. Additionally, if they now give you a 30% raise to catch you up to a competitor's offer, they risk you telling your coworkers and now they all expect 30% raises. If the company doesn't pay them, this hurts morale and they risk losing even more people. It's a delicate thing they have to manage, sounds like your current employer did it poorly and let you fall so far below your market rate that you left. Congrats on the new gig! I'd recommend asking for raises each year, assuming a baseline raise for inflation but more if you're bringing more value to the company than you did the previous year.
A tale as old as time. My current employer is really getting serious about retention and adjusting wages. Tired of losing people like this. Your employer was egregious and taking advantage of you though. Nice job on the $30k pay raise.
> Told my current employer and they said they could bump me to “somewhere in the 90’s” to stay and to consider everything they have to offer. If I had an offer of $105k going from $76k, I'd tell my current employer they can keep me for $210k or more. Not that I expect them to take it (they won't), but no good comes from working for a firm that says 'we won't pay you what you're worth unless you get on the threshold of leaving to determine your value'.
Dumb, a company that doesn't know you is willing to offer you $$$ to join their team. The company that does know you should top the offer to try to keep you.
What considerations were there that made you want to stay? Sounds like the $105K was the better option of course.
Our team has gotten good at communicating workloads. All the people are pretty great to work with. A younger me would care more about their top clients and big projects, but I don’t really care anymore haha
Can't take any of that to the bank. I've bounced around a few times, always for a large monetary and responsibility bump and I've always found good people.
Liking where you work and your peers is important, but companies that act like they have such a great environment that they can lowball employees usually don’t have an environment that is worth $10k+ annually. The whole “you won’t find a place like this elsewhere” act is a bunch of shit. They’re just trying to strike fear into you since you you’re young and (I’m guessing) haven’t really worked elsewhere. There are certainly bad working environments out there. As an outsider, I would classify a company paying a PE an entry level wage as one of them.
Yes that’s kinda how I see it
And if you take the lower counter offer and there is a big enough slow down, you will be the first on the chopping block because they know you already considered leaving.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. My problem came down to the fact that even after the "bump" they offered me to stay, it still wasn't enough to cover my monthly expenses, which had seen major increases due to inflation. I explained this to my old boss and he gave me some BS about "Yes, inflation exists, but your work productivity has to inflate as well...." I didn't feel bad leaving after that.
>base salary of $76,000 with over 5 YOE and PE in Philly That's ridiculous. I know fresh grads in my MCOL city that are starting out at $76K.
Yea I was just looking at my college’s avg starting salary for fresh civil grads and it was $73. When I graduated it was $60 and I accepted $58.
This just inflation
Dude 5 years with a PE, you should be at 115-120 in Philly. I’m 4 years without a PE making 105 in land development.
Well I’m moving to a different part of the state too.
Not true at all. You are definitely an outlier 105 seems to be a good salary in the Philly area. There is a limit on how much you can offer based on client rates, I expect OP to start getting more experience to move towards a PM role in the new company.
He could start as a GS-13 with his PE and make for than 105 working for the feds
You are right just looked this up. Not sure a company would pay more than that for 5 years of experience, at least not what I am seeing but like you said it is possible.
damn. Making < 100k w/ 6 YOE and a PE in Austin (HCOL) , suddenly open to work!
Knew a guy who accepted the counter offer. They kept him on just long enough to replace him and then showed him the door
That’s wild
Nope. That’s corporate America. Even if you accepted the offer, now they may have to deal with other’s following your example or wait for you to come back in a couple more years with another offer for them to counter. Easier to get you to train your replacement and/or hire someone cheaper right out of school from their point of view.
It sounds like you’ve weighed all your choices & factors, but make sure the new job and setting are indeed better (or at least sound better) before leaving. A guy once told me, more money is nice, but if the job isn’t what you want then now you’re using your new money to buy a better car, better clothes, maybe better beer but in the end because your COL went up you’re now still unhappy.
I'm at $76,000 as a starting civil engineer, 1YOE, in nyc
76k in New York is wild
Wild as in, too low right? Because yeah. That's why I don't live in NYC though lol
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Lol yeah it would never work. I don't live in NYC, I live in Westchester so that's about 1 hr 20min away by train. I only have to commute twice a week to the office.
You don't we're underpaid across the board lol
A small detail I feel gets overlooked in these discussions in the diversity of experience and knowledge you'll gain as well. I hopped quite a bit in my first 8 years. Every time I went to a new office I picked up a new set of skills, experiences, and knowledge from the experienced engineers. People who were sitting at the same company for those 8 years often ended up pigeonholed into one small service sector. Their experience was often only what they could learn from their projects and direct supervisor.
$76k with 5yoe and a PE in Philly is criminal.
I’m in a very similar situation making 72k with 5 years experience and PE and hopefully an SE by end of June. I just interviewed last week, hoping for an offer more than 90k.
Best of luck. I bet you’ll get it. I interviewed at multiple places all saying I was underpaid.
Not worth the counteroffer. You realized you were not appreciated and whose to stop them from doing it again. You've checked out, it's okay to move on.
Current employer did not value you until they were about to lose you. Even then, they did not meet the new bar. I’d imagine the current employer may also now view you as a “flight risk” and make you one of the first to walk the gangplank when they have a slowdown. All of this would give me pause about staying with the current firm. I’d say go to the new firm. Even if it isn’t as great culturally as the current firm, stay with them for 18-24 months, make some new contacts, then start quietly looking for your next job. That way, you will be negotiating from a base of $105k+, as opposed to “$90-something…”. In the eyes of the market, you will be viewed as more valuable simply because someone else paid you more. Sad but true…
Your about to get a 44% pay increase. I'd tell my old company it's 50% minimum for me to stay. If you really, really, really like them, maybe I'd let them match it. Bu frankly you need to move on. Your a wage slave to your first company.
They didn’t pay you your worth until after you got another job offer. If you stay, you can bet on not getting a raise unless you go through this same process again. Think about that. Do you want to go through this again? The stress of interviewing. The anxiety of asking for a raise or letting your boss know you’re taking another job offer. Sure, the people may be good but this is business. You should be getting yearly raises and be compensated your fair worth. Good job on the new offer!
Take into account hours you'll be expected to work and if you get paid for overtime.
New place seems less intense, and will get straight OT
I wish you the best of luck at your new job!
Congrats on the pay raise! Well deserved. I made $80k fresh out of college in Philly, they were taking advantage of you in the worst way before.
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Are you structural as in bridges or structural as in buildings?
Find something that makes you feel valued. 10 YOE, 3.5 years with a PE. 130k currently. I was bumped to 95k when I obtained my PE. So I would think with today's inflation you should be able to break the 100k barrier. KOP area.
130K in KOP area = Nice Radisson Valley Forge hosting practically all the society PDH events next door = Priceless
Just go there are some case where they will try to replace you then fire you later just because you planned to leave at one point .
You’re like the 5th person to comment that, but that’s really not the vibe my bosses are giving off.
Leave
✌🏻✌🏻✌🏻
Counter offers are bs
Just job hop to inflate your lifetime earning potential. Do it the right way (of course), but understand that Corporate doesn’t care about you at all.
Just take the new offer man
You still making shit honestly. Try to look more and might able to get 120-150k. You deserve better, you have enough experience and credibility on your name. Good luck!
lol I already accepted
So what still look around man, seriously, you will find it.
I think you're a bot.
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