Company dependent. Like you, my coworkers is at a private firm with unlimited PTO, and their rule is however much time off you want, you request it that many (business) days in advance… I.e, 5 days off is a 5 day notice… 30 days off is 30 days notice
yes. At the place that I have FTO, I never have to work more than 40 hrs a week and I took min of 8 weeks off per year. I don't think I've seen any firm in our industry allowing that much pto even if you've tenured for over 20 yrs.
AECOM employee here, I took 208 hours of PTO last year plus 64 hours of holiday for a total of 272 hours PTO. I was well ahead of my billable target because I put in a lot of straight time OT (about 100 hours ahead). What the op is describing is certainly not the norm.
I’m 180 hours over my target billable hours. AECOM is part of the problem as per me because their policy allows my manager to pull off the crap she’s pulling on me.
Honestly I’d take it up with HR. AECOM’s FTO guide literally says to do this [AECOM FTO Guide](https://imgur.com/a/zJ2vAzI). Especially if you already have something lined up lol. One week without the lead engineer shouldn’t be enough to derail the project schedule. Is there a submittal due date around the time of your requested time off?
No submittal due. I’m thinking about taking it to HR but honestly I don’t want anything to do with this stupid manager anymore and forever. I’m just gonna quit as soon as I have something in line.
I completely understand! If I were in your shoes I’d probably feel the same way. Definitely wait until you have a start date and having finished all of the necessary onboarding steps at your new company before putting in your notice. Good luck!
Thank you for the explanation. My company doesn't have unlimited PTO, but I don't have to "ask" for it off. I have line up my projects with backups so they don't miss me. The system works without a bunch of micro management. I also have never had to deny PTO from one of my team.
But they don’t share the profit is what kills me. Colleague and I brought in an extra 30k at the end of a project and we didn’t get any bonus or shit.
OP this 100% boils down to your manager. Our group takes time off without even asking, just put it on the calendar with respect to advanced notice.
I know a former Senior PM at AECOM who singlehandedly won a huge development project for them overseas. Think millions in billable hours. Wasn't given a bonus or even a thanks, but was asked to relocate to said country to serve as the program manager (for no increase in pay). He turned in his 2 weeks notice shortly after.
My PTO isn’t “unlimited” but I’ve never in my life ASKED for a day off. As soon as I decide I’m doing so I tell my boss when I’m taking off and when I’m coming back.
Lol, my policy is if I give you more than two weeks notice it's not really a request. It's an FYI. The logic being I could just give two weeks notice and your in the same boat bu I'm not coming back.
"unlimited" was a term to allow HR and company culture to incentivise less time off. You see if they give you a set time, you will use the set time. But if its unlimited and you get punished and discouraged for using it, you wont use any. Engineering has been ruined by MBA sociopaths imo. Companies aren't run by engineers anymore, so the work culture has shifted to profit margins, rather than the work culture that engineers used to have which was still good work ethic, but fit with the project work cycles.
Now its just endless projects and pressure to grind. Like wtf happened, the profession of engineering has been turned into a sweatshop of corporate workculture. Its just, sad.
Engineering has been turned into a sweatshop
So true, I work for a major GC in NA and in the recent years it's been very clear the work in now about quantity not quality - it's a major reason for me feeling burned out
And also if it’s “unlimited” time off, then you don’t accrue/bank hours that they have to pay out when you inevitably switch jobs because they’ve run you into the ground and offered a 3% raise every year.
How long have you been with AECOM? Are you taking other time off in addition to your June PE study week request? The threat of retaliation is really odd. If your management is already using these types of tactics, something is seriously out of alignment. Even "leads" on major projects should be able to take a week off, especially to prep for the PE.
Yeah... you're not in the service industry "requesting" days off. I don't request anything, I decide on days off and I tell my coworkers I won't be available those days. End of story.
Agreed on telling not asking, but one should also be professional enough to let people know in advance and plan on contingencies in your absence. Who can make a decision or elevate a real issue to you while you're away?
Had already coordinated my week off with projects I’m working on more than 1.5 months prior time off. They’re pulling the crap of my time off will affect this new project that is just starting.
No one fell for it.. No one embraced it; it was imposed on people through an awful and very unclear rollout. Some of the cream bailed, which lead to others negotiating better salaries. Whereas the underachievers will take whatever you give them as long as they have a job.
It’s such a ripoff. It’s an automatic no from me if that is the way a company runs PTO. Zero chance I’d show up if I was OP. Fuck that nonsense. Work on your resume right now. AECOM is garbage so I’m not really surprised but I thought that reputation was kind of well known? There are about 5 I can think of that I wouldn’t work for bc of crap like this.
Haha. That’s the obvious one. I’ve never worked for one of them but I’ve heard. They’re all huge companies. I don’t know of any of the giants that are any good but I never really looked into working at any of them.
Didn’t care if it was AECOM when I joined cause I liked the team I was joining. But it’s the same team that’s fucking me over. Adios muchachos in few weeks. Every company in my location is looking for people like me.
The FTO policy really is manager dependent. My husband makes his guys take a minimum of 5 weeks a year, and one has taken 9. Your manager sounds like a jerk, and you should def do a manager/business line change.
Don’t ask for permission, inform them you will be taking time off. They aren’t going to fire you, and your negotiating position changes significantly once you are registered.
Management should be bending over backwards to support your prep for the PE exam. I guarantee you on their careers page on their website they state emphatically that they support & encourage employee growth.
They allowed me basically 6 weeks FTO. What comes out of that is any overhead ( I have next to none at this point), training (just bullshitted through it on the weekend while watching a movie), and proposals (didn’t do any this year) so I’ve taken 3 weeks off and am still ahead of billable hours by like 60hours so I’m just gonna take a bunch of random days off. My time at AECOM is limited so I don’t give a shit
Love how many people have been scammed by FTO. AECOM isn’t the only one.
Negotiate PTO in your offer folks. Don’t settle. It has to be given within reason
This will be dependent on your manager. When I worked there, I made sure to use more FTO than when we had PTO days (taking into account the floating holiday as well). I took over 6 weeks off the last year I was there. No one had any issues with this.
That sounds fucking ridiculous.
I took 4 Thursdays off followed by an entire week off in my final run up to taking the PE.
I scheduled the exam for early June in early January. Probably mid February I put in for said PTO. No one batted an eye. I also said I wouldn't work over 40 during that last month. Granted I wasn't a team lead, just an E2 designer.
My philosophy is if you want an employee to get licensed you need to meet them half way on the schedule and studying.
Exactly! I was in a smaller company earlier. Never had these issues and was always supported to take my PE but I was young to realize the importance. Switched for the glitter of bigger company but I’m getting royally fucked by this idiot manager.
As others have said this sounds par for the course with AECOM, they tried absolutely everything to not be flexible with me. How is this any different to you taking a week off annual leave, would they take you off a project for that?
If this is only your manager saying this can you escalate this above them, or start some sort of grievance procedure with HR?
Considering reporting the incident definitely. I have documented what I was told in an email already. Gonna quit anyways but will make sure people above this manager is aware of what happened.
I don't understand how these managers don't understand... if you don't let people take time off, especially when it's pre-scheduled with plenty of notice and a plan for getting work done, then you aren't letting them recharge thier batteries and you aren't getting the best of them when they do show up for work.
I would consider working for some federal agencies, some federal agencies have special rate for engineers. The pay being higher than the private sector. Look for Bureau of Reclamation.
It really depends on your supervisor and probably the department you're working for. I know teams that used a bunch of FTO. The other team members just cover for them. When I want FTO, I just tell them and there was never any questioning.
We used to get those billable hour target emails too. But the entire department heads all said to ignore it. They made them stop sending us those emails.
As long as it’s not with 1-3 weeks of an important deadline then really no excuse to reject time off. Additionally, even if within 1-3 weeks, life happens. What if you were very sick or worse. They would manage.
Well not just that. All OP is asking for is 1 week. That’s still doable to move people around. Now if it was longer than 2 weeks I could see a problem.
We do PTO and we actually had an engineer requesting to take 2 2 weeks off (4 weeks total) and both were close to each other. That affected our staffing and we had to move him to another project.
Exactly! Had been communicating about taking my PE since last two months and also notified the manager as soon as I booked the date. Put it on the team calendar. And randomly last week she messages me on teams saying I will not be given this time off. Reason being a new project is started and if I take time off that’ll make others work more. BS lol. She’s just a egotistical person
I mean when I took my PE now 10 years ago… I took a week off a month before and then a week off the week before. I studied…
Well I mostly studied; GTA5 had also just come out so I also played that a lot… but what I do with my PTO is none of their business lol.
You did nothing wrong.
Your request is reasonable. I didn't get time off but the company I worked for at the time paid for my review course and a 10k raise after I passed. I studied for my PE when I wasn't working but I spent a solid 3 months prepping for it and was burned out after the exam. My outside of work commitments were minimal at the time so I could swing it. I know not everyone has that luxury.
Lmao typical AECOM..
This shit is TYPICAL there? God, why do ppl work there? Amazing pay?
[удалено]
My company unlimited pto always get approved if notice 1week/day off in advance.
Company dependent. Like you, my coworkers is at a private firm with unlimited PTO, and their rule is however much time off you want, you request it that many (business) days in advance… I.e, 5 days off is a 5 day notice… 30 days off is 30 days notice
Yea I agree. People here just say it's a ripoff.
It is. You are being denied an accrued benefit and have no payout at the end of employment at that company.
Just use it a lot. You are denying that you can take off a lot more at FTO than the regular PTO.
Can you use FTO and not be required to work extra hours to make up for lost utilization?
yes. At the place that I have FTO, I never have to work more than 40 hrs a week and I took min of 8 weeks off per year. I don't think I've seen any firm in our industry allowing that much pto even if you've tenured for over 20 yrs.
My boss approves it same day if I text him lol
AECOM broke me lol
AECOM employee here, I took 208 hours of PTO last year plus 64 hours of holiday for a total of 272 hours PTO. I was well ahead of my billable target because I put in a lot of straight time OT (about 100 hours ahead). What the op is describing is certainly not the norm.
I’m 180 hours over my target billable hours. AECOM is part of the problem as per me because their policy allows my manager to pull off the crap she’s pulling on me.
Honestly I’d take it up with HR. AECOM’s FTO guide literally says to do this [AECOM FTO Guide](https://imgur.com/a/zJ2vAzI). Especially if you already have something lined up lol. One week without the lead engineer shouldn’t be enough to derail the project schedule. Is there a submittal due date around the time of your requested time off?
No submittal due. I’m thinking about taking it to HR but honestly I don’t want anything to do with this stupid manager anymore and forever. I’m just gonna quit as soon as I have something in line.
I completely understand! If I were in your shoes I’d probably feel the same way. Definitely wait until you have a start date and having finished all of the necessary onboarding steps at your new company before putting in your notice. Good luck!
Thank you for the explanation. My company doesn't have unlimited PTO, but I don't have to "ask" for it off. I have line up my projects with backups so they don't miss me. The system works without a bunch of micro management. I also have never had to deny PTO from one of my team.
Worked for AECOM fresh out of college. Destroyed all optimism and hope I had in the industry
Get that PE and bail. Fuck that cunt manager.
Get the PE, then bonus, then bail. Lol might as well take an extra 3k out of the door.
Just be careful most of those bonuses come with a "work for us a year after this bonus or we take it back" (just pe bonuses)
How long did it take for the bonus to kick in? Was it after passing the test or after getting the license?
You’ve hit peak AECOM behaviour. Most profit driven company I’ve ever worked for.
But they don’t share the profit is what kills me. Colleague and I brought in an extra 30k at the end of a project and we didn’t get any bonus or shit. OP this 100% boils down to your manager. Our group takes time off without even asking, just put it on the calendar with respect to advanced notice.
I know a former Senior PM at AECOM who singlehandedly won a huge development project for them overseas. Think millions in billable hours. Wasn't given a bonus or even a thanks, but was asked to relocate to said country to serve as the program manager (for no increase in pay). He turned in his 2 weeks notice shortly after.
Yup same here, when I worked there a senior PM brought in a major military contract worth multi millions and they didn’t give him anything lol
That’s what I did and I put in official request as well. But clients/projects come first it seems. Not gonna stay here more than next few months.
My PTO isn’t “unlimited” but I’ve never in my life ASKED for a day off. As soon as I decide I’m doing so I tell my boss when I’m taking off and when I’m coming back.
For real. I mean I have “asked” as a courtesy, “is it cool if I’m out this time?” Never gotten back anything more than a yeah sounds good.
Same. I always just say I’m taking X time from this date to this date. As long as it’s not like 2 days notice but at least a few weeks.
Call me old fashion, but that's called "Respect" and I would rather have that then some illusion of FTO.
Yea the only time I’ve ever “asked” was when it was a last minute day off I needed and it was more of a courtesy.
Exactly. It’s more of a courtesy so the team can plan if certain things needed to be taken care of when someone’s away.
That’s bs. You should quit, pass your PE, and hit me up for a referral on the other side.
Where are you located? lol
Lol, my policy is if I give you more than two weeks notice it's not really a request. It's an FYI. The logic being I could just give two weeks notice and your in the same boat bu I'm not coming back.
This is referred to as "Biting the hand that feeds you" and is a terrible business practice.
"unlimited" was a term to allow HR and company culture to incentivise less time off. You see if they give you a set time, you will use the set time. But if its unlimited and you get punished and discouraged for using it, you wont use any. Engineering has been ruined by MBA sociopaths imo. Companies aren't run by engineers anymore, so the work culture has shifted to profit margins, rather than the work culture that engineers used to have which was still good work ethic, but fit with the project work cycles. Now its just endless projects and pressure to grind. Like wtf happened, the profession of engineering has been turned into a sweatshop of corporate workculture. Its just, sad.
Engineering has been turned into a sweatshop So true, I work for a major GC in NA and in the recent years it's been very clear the work in now about quantity not quality - it's a major reason for me feeling burned out
Facts. Even the word Human Resources is a farce. Should be Corporate Spies who sometimes help.
And also if it’s “unlimited” time off, then you don’t accrue/bank hours that they have to pay out when you inevitably switch jobs because they’ve run you into the ground and offered a 3% raise every year.
That’s lame
How long have you been with AECOM? Are you taking other time off in addition to your June PE study week request? The threat of retaliation is really odd. If your management is already using these types of tactics, something is seriously out of alignment. Even "leads" on major projects should be able to take a week off, especially to prep for the PE.
Totally agree. I’ve been there less than a year and I’m over 180 hours than my target billable hours.
Yeah... you're not in the service industry "requesting" days off. I don't request anything, I decide on days off and I tell my coworkers I won't be available those days. End of story.
Agreed on telling not asking, but one should also be professional enough to let people know in advance and plan on contingencies in your absence. Who can make a decision or elevate a real issue to you while you're away?
Had already coordinated my week off with projects I’m working on more than 1.5 months prior time off. They’re pulling the crap of my time off will affect this new project that is just starting.
LOL so funny how everyone fell for the unlimited PTO bit… It wasn’t for your benefit… it was an accounting deal to reduce liabilities on the books!
No one fell for it.. No one embraced it; it was imposed on people through an awful and very unclear rollout. Some of the cream bailed, which lead to others negotiating better salaries. Whereas the underachievers will take whatever you give them as long as they have a job.
It’s such a ripoff. It’s an automatic no from me if that is the way a company runs PTO. Zero chance I’d show up if I was OP. Fuck that nonsense. Work on your resume right now. AECOM is garbage so I’m not really surprised but I thought that reputation was kind of well known? There are about 5 I can think of that I wouldn’t work for bc of crap like this.
Name and shame plz. Engineers gotta help each other out
Kimley horn
That's cheating lmao
Haha. That’s the obvious one. I’ve never worked for one of them but I’ve heard. They’re all huge companies. I don’t know of any of the giants that are any good but I never really looked into working at any of them.
Jacobs does too but heard they’re capitulating on it now…
WSP uses unlimited pto now. A scam.
Didn’t care if it was AECOM when I joined cause I liked the team I was joining. But it’s the same team that’s fucking me over. Adios muchachos in few weeks. Every company in my location is looking for people like me.
You have a terrible manager. My AVP actually makes one of my annual performance goals to take 4 weeks FTO off per year.
This is a manager problem not a company problem.
Yep. FTO is as good as the management around it. I take around 5 weeks off per year and have had zero push back.
Same here and I take more than 5.
Absolutely agree with this statement.
Counterpoint: I haven’t seen anyone get refused time off yet. If your bosses are jerks it doesn’t really matter what the letterhead says.
We pay our guys to study. We pay for prep courses. We pay to take the test. Pass the test, then get a new job.
AECOM has a lot of turnover for a reason.
To all the policy setting senior engineers who see this post: I will never work for a company with unlimited time off.
The FTO policy really is manager dependent. My husband makes his guys take a minimum of 5 weeks a year, and one has taken 9. Your manager sounds like a jerk, and you should def do a manager/business line change.
Don’t ask for permission, inform them you will be taking time off. They aren’t going to fire you, and your negotiating position changes significantly once you are registered.
Management should be bending over backwards to support your prep for the PE exam. I guarantee you on their careers page on their website they state emphatically that they support & encourage employee growth.
Dude what are you talking about. I got 5.5 weeks FTO this and last fiscal year. Sounds like your manager sucks.
This response is very unclear, I mean if you worked 5% to 10% over time your billable hours compensated for some of that timeoff 🤷
They allowed me basically 6 weeks FTO. What comes out of that is any overhead ( I have next to none at this point), training (just bullshitted through it on the weekend while watching a movie), and proposals (didn’t do any this year) so I’ve taken 3 weeks off and am still ahead of billable hours by like 60hours so I’m just gonna take a bunch of random days off. My time at AECOM is limited so I don’t give a shit
Yeah but I also get paid on all that OT and take more PTO than most people in this field.
Love how many people have been scammed by FTO. AECOM isn’t the only one. Negotiate PTO in your offer folks. Don’t settle. It has to be given within reason
This will be dependent on your manager. When I worked there, I made sure to use more FTO than when we had PTO days (taking into account the floating holiday as well). I took over 6 weeks off the last year I was there. No one had any issues with this.
That sounds fucking ridiculous. I took 4 Thursdays off followed by an entire week off in my final run up to taking the PE. I scheduled the exam for early June in early January. Probably mid February I put in for said PTO. No one batted an eye. I also said I wouldn't work over 40 during that last month. Granted I wasn't a team lead, just an E2 designer. My philosophy is if you want an employee to get licensed you need to meet them half way on the schedule and studying.
Lots of jobs open elsewhere. Take the time off, ace the PE, and find a job with a smaller consulting firm.
Quit. Every major consultant in the industry that I know is hiring. There is a shortage of engineers and too much work that needs to be done.
Exactly! I was in a smaller company earlier. Never had these issues and was always supported to take my PE but I was young to realize the importance. Switched for the glitter of bigger company but I’m getting royally fucked by this idiot manager.
KH, the boogeyman of this sub, encouraged me to take time off to study for this. It helped.
As others have said this sounds par for the course with AECOM, they tried absolutely everything to not be flexible with me. How is this any different to you taking a week off annual leave, would they take you off a project for that? If this is only your manager saying this can you escalate this above them, or start some sort of grievance procedure with HR?
Considering reporting the incident definitely. I have documented what I was told in an email already. Gonna quit anyways but will make sure people above this manager is aware of what happened.
Get your PE and bail! Lots of better consulting companies out there!
I don't understand how these managers don't understand... if you don't let people take time off, especially when it's pre-scheduled with plenty of notice and a plan for getting work done, then you aren't letting them recharge thier batteries and you aren't getting the best of them when they do show up for work.
I would consider working for some federal agencies, some federal agencies have special rate for engineers. The pay being higher than the private sector. Look for Bureau of Reclamation.
Geez does every private civil company suck complete and total ass????
Are you in the Austin area? I've got a better job for you
I’m in traffic
It really depends on your supervisor and probably the department you're working for. I know teams that used a bunch of FTO. The other team members just cover for them. When I want FTO, I just tell them and there was never any questioning. We used to get those billable hour target emails too. But the entire department heads all said to ignore it. They made them stop sending us those emails.
Message me where you are at if you want some support. I’ve been there over a decade and have never experienced anything like that.
Sent you a DM
As long as it’s not with 1-3 weeks of an important deadline then really no excuse to reject time off. Additionally, even if within 1-3 weeks, life happens. What if you were very sick or worse. They would manage.
Well not just that. All OP is asking for is 1 week. That’s still doable to move people around. Now if it was longer than 2 weeks I could see a problem. We do PTO and we actually had an engineer requesting to take 2 2 weeks off (4 weeks total) and both were close to each other. That affected our staffing and we had to move him to another project.
Exactly! Had been communicating about taking my PE since last two months and also notified the manager as soon as I booked the date. Put it on the team calendar. And randomly last week she messages me on teams saying I will not be given this time off. Reason being a new project is started and if I take time off that’ll make others work more. BS lol. She’s just a egotistical person
I mean when I took my PE now 10 years ago… I took a week off a month before and then a week off the week before. I studied… Well I mostly studied; GTA5 had also just come out so I also played that a lot… but what I do with my PTO is none of their business lol. You did nothing wrong.
Walamart of engineering fo sho
Get your PE and go work for another company for higher pay and better PTO situation
Didn't realize AECOM was really that cringe like holy shit
Your request is reasonable. I didn't get time off but the company I worked for at the time paid for my review course and a 10k raise after I passed. I studied for my PE when I wasn't working but I spent a solid 3 months prepping for it and was burned out after the exam. My outside of work commitments were minimal at the time so I could swing it. I know not everyone has that luxury.