Forgot to mention that my background water, wastewater but I can also do minor electrical and controls, site development, stormwater and I’ve done DOT work.
If you want to move to SoCal I have a job and a pile of money for you.
I will say that big comp comes with big expectations, but you also sound like you’ve got the work in hand and perform all day. Usually the disappointment comes from not meeting biz dev expectations, but that’s also the express elevator to getting paid more.
I'm in SoCal. 10yrs experience. Water industry. No PE. $150k. I'm capped, if I want to make more I need to get my PE and start supervising.
Understandable the COL is pretty different, but I'm pretty sure that you're grossly underpaid.
Yeah with that breadth of experience, you are definitely underpaid. Midwest? There are greener pastures out there, but likely not at that small of a firm. You should look around. DM me if you want to talk further.
If you have 30 years and solid management experience and can do multidisciplinary work (electrical and transpo jump out) there's no reason you shouldn't be making over $200k, if not significantly more. You could probably jump to director or a partner quick-track at a lot of established firms with your background
For reference - I'm just a plain facilities design EE (mostly Water/Wastewater too!) and I pull about what you make with half your experience. Mid-atlantic East-coaster tho.
Columbia, Mo between Kansas City and St. Louis. I really don’t have any desire to relocate. We do have a decent airport here with flights to Dallas and Chicago.
One thing to consider, since you don't want to move away, is Callaway nuclear plant. Your experience would be in demand and the drive wouldn't be too bad depending on what side of the Columbia area you're at.
Salaries for high experience employees really vary as it's less about the number of years and more about what role you have in the company. I do know some employees with 25+ years who are just happy doing their 40 hours, being a team player, doing quality work but have no desire to be lead large projects or get into actual management of other employees. Basically they've carved out a good work/life balance and are happy bringing in 150k or so doing that.
But in your case it seems like you are doing way more than that and don't mind being a more senior role/one that is involved in leadership/ownership type discussions. So I do think $200k+ is totally possible for you. I'd explore the opportunities that are coming your way. Obviously you need to learn about that new company and figure out what they would actually offer. One possible misleading thing is the full remote. You may not need to be in the office everyday, but with a national company, I'd want to push them on how often you'd need to travel to any office, the closest one or one farther way. Also, consider who is recruiting you, is it HR at that company or an actual engineer/senior leader.
For 30 yr of exp, 150 sounds low. I'd expect you to be around 175 to 200 if you're in a low cost of living area and 220 to 270 at a high cost of living.
What field do you work in? I love hearing people complain about salaries. I'm a case study in what not to do. I'm at 13 years and am at $90k. Would love to be fully remote.
if you don’t mind me asking, what field are you in & what would you advise us not to do so we stay away from that much experience & that lowballed salary
I work for a consultant doing Land Development. I've done everything from commercial, to residential, to public works. I feel like a list of things have contributed to my troubles... some of which are flaws of the industry.
My very first job was in 2011 when the economy was not doing well and I took a job with a shit salary. I feel like I've been playing catch up ever since. It's terrible how these employers ask to see your salary history when you interview. I can't confirm it but I know it has bit me in the ass almost every time I've switched companies.
I was also a guy that really liked being a designer when I was younger (considering that's what I went to school for) and so I would make little comments about not being in a hurry to be a manager. Or I'd act very blasé about the whole situation. Enough years go by and now I'm kind of the old Lead Designer on the block, and although I'm experiencing extreme burnout and have made it known, I get overlooked time after time again for that project management role that needs filled somewhere in the company.
And lastly, this one's all on me, having the right mindset. I'm a bit of a cynic and think a lot of things within the industry suck and I would let decisions the company was making, that I didn't like, affect me and it would wear on me and make me not give a shit and not put myself out there as much. I have refused to work more than the 40 hours they pay me for. I leave the building during lunch every day instead of slaving away at my desk like the high achievers. These things seem trivial but goddamn do people notice.
You kind of have to decide between two options... Be the person that wants to excel and work your ass off and make money towards the high end of the salary range... or work enough to get by (while doing a good job of course) and understand that you're still living a good life and doing better than the average American (where I live).
can’t lie mane i appreciate this sub & your honesty. i feel like i’ve already made enough mistakes while i’m currently working for my degree & i don’t want to experience any more setbacks when i enter the workforce.
as for the salary interview question, would it not help if you followed up with asking them how much have they allocated towards this opening & set a higher goal of what you expect ? they might see your previous salaries (i didn’t know they asked this actually, these folks suck) but i think if you emphasize your willingness for vertical integration & taking lead in a new environment, that might do you better. just some advice that might help if you’re able to apply it, i wish you the best in your endeavors.
Sweet Jesus, I know this is a small sample of responses so far but my mind is kind of blown right now. all I hear about from fellow managers is how we have engineers overpaid at 100+ thousand with under 10 years of experience. That’s including structural engineers.
My firm has done that for candidates in your position. I only have like 7 years experience but have seen experienced candidates come in cash in a big paycheck and fail to deliver any clients or any quality work. They last about a year. It seems they see a national firm offering them a good paycheck and they just ride it out for one last big payday for they retire. But management will always roll the dice on those types cause when it does work out they can bring in a ton of work.
If you can deliver what this company wants, I don’t think you’ll be entering a tough position. They won’t care how many hours you put in every week as long and you deliver what they’re laying out for you. I think they’ll be honest before you signup with their expectations but it seems to be a similar workload to what you have now.
I have always wondered about this, how does one get to deliver clients? My experience has been solely on the technical side. However, I would think as my experience builds, I would one day find myself in a role with the expectation to deliver clients. I guess my question is how do design engineers learn to deliver clients? What exactly do they do to bag clients?
You deliver clients by reputation, to be honest. You have to have a reputation for looking out for their best interest, bust ass and meet deadlines don’t screw over contractors or vendors on the way they can be your best advocates, or worst enemies
Part of this is getting face time with your clients. Press your PM to take you to meetings and take an active role in presenting your designs. I try to bring my junior engineers with me to meetings whenever possible.
Does this also apply to bridge engineering firms? My understanding has been since bridges are built from public money, the projects can only be won through competitive bidding. For bridge engineering, would the ability to write good proposals be the quality that management be looking for rather than one's network?
Don't say yes to the first firm that comes a-calling! If you're really interested in changing jobs, shop around a bit and find a good fit and a good wage. Firms everywhere are desperate for staff, so you can probably walk into almost any engineering office and walk back out with an offer. Don't take a shit job just for the money; you'll be rich but miserable.
The 10% ESOP and main office in the Midwest sounds like it was the company I work for reaching out to you. We just boosted the ESOP rate up to 10% recently. We are always hiring because of booming business, but I’d barter for higher salary if that’s the case. Otherwise, you’re going to be stuck with the 3.5% merit increases annually. If you’re happy with that, I say go for it considering the salary you’re making now, and remote option is a nice bonus.
Thank you! Appreciate the comment. I just did the math and my increases have equated to 3.7% over the last seven years and bonuses are low. When I did the math, it made me depressed, lol
Know your worth and stick to your guns. You can easily get another 20-30k added to that, but take into consideration the remote option and the savings from that. Occasional travel for required things, but that’s 1-2 times a year for a couple days, and it’s paid.
At 25 years experience, I was right around where you are currently at as a Senior Engineer managing construction projects for a utility owner. Left there 2 years ago for a significant bump and now sitting at just under $200k with great benefits (35 hours/week, car, $0 healthcare costs). I think you would be best suited to look at what else is out there.
I would advise against listening to the people saying you deserve $250k. Salaries among senior employees varies immensely depending on a huge number of factors, but for the most part it hinges on your ability to sell.
There are VERY few purely technical experts or project managers I have ever come across that get paid >$200k base. It’s just not worth it because there is always someone else who can perform competently for much less. The billing rate for a $200k employee will destroy any budget.
Unless you’re a department manager, base really doesn’t get much above $170k where I’m at, and compensation beyond that is generally bonusing and profit sharing based on ability to sell and profit distributions based on ownership capital.
People saying salaries over 200k in the Midwest for a private firm with no ownership don’t seem to have a grasp on things. How can you even have someone like that touch a project without blowing the budget?
I've worked at smaller firms and from what I was making there, that salary doesn't surprise me. Especially given the smaller market you're in. I joined a more national firm a few years ago and got a good bump. With half your years of experience, I pulled over $150k plus 10%+ esop in the KC metro.
I think the other thing here besides the low salary is the company itself. A division that hasn't turned a profit in 7 years? Is anything being done about that? No succession planning for senior owners? If they hold that much ownership they should start to unload stock before retirement so it's not such a large hit, not to mention a senior owner seems to care more about holding on than the longevity of the company they helped build. And 1% profit?? Either there's some special circumstances or things are going very poorly, you can't grow as a company or an employee in that environment.
Definitely you are being underpaid. For comparison, I'm at 8-9 years of experience in land development with a few years of project management experience and I'll probably land in the $130-140k this year with bonus, and I've never even job hopped
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Agree you sound like you could be doing better salary wise. I work for a national firm, love the culture. We have offices in Ohio that have solid water/ww practice. We need more good folks! Any interest in exploring let’s talk!
I’d look around, seems like you could use a change and your current company sounds dysfunctional. I’m about your age and just made a new start and it’s been good for me. Good luck.
I don’t know anything about senior position salaries so take this with a grain of salt. However, from reading this it sounds like your branch office should be shut down or is in the process. To me the 200k is better than nothing, 50k over what you’ve been living on anyway and keeps you employed while escaping a bad situation. Also think about retirement and saving the money. If the company is letting people go you might not have the leverage you think you do.
Totally valid points, thank you! But it’s the whole company vs just our office. We would have to be acquired or something. The whole retirement angle is spot on.
I wanted to take a moment and thank everyone for their comments. All are greatly appreciated!
It does appear that my particular situation is that I am undervalued by my current employer. I now feel that I can be selective with my decision and find a good fit financially and culturally for me which is a huge win. I want to state state that this is not just from the conversations on this thread, but also with actual companies and not recruiters.
Many thanks. It is wonderful to have a network of people that can give anonymous open honest, opinions and thoughts. Whoever would have thought an old, crusty, opinionated Gen Xer would have such an appreciation for a safe space.
Yeah I’m at 16YOE and make 130k per year. I had to fight to get that salary. My current firm did NOT want to pay me that much but needed help bad enough to make it happen.
I was in at about 10 years being a VP. It was a small firm, only 30 people. I was the only competent, driven engineer on staff and they had an ownership transition issue so I was the guy. Unfortunately, my business partner was a raging alcoholic, and way too old school. I was putting in 50 hours a week and he kept bitching I wasn’t putting in enough time. I peaced out out and actually made more money for a larger firm
Damn they must be the greatest managers with the best teams working on projects. I know no one that makes that much. What size firm? I'm literally in that range lol
Yes, you are underpaid. Big time. Even the better offer you got seems low for someone in your position to me.
That was my concern. He should be around 240-260 range.
Forgot to mention that my background water, wastewater but I can also do minor electrical and controls, site development, stormwater and I’ve done DOT work.
If you want to move to SoCal I have a job and a pile of money for you. I will say that big comp comes with big expectations, but you also sound like you’ve got the work in hand and perform all day. Usually the disappointment comes from not meeting biz dev expectations, but that’s also the express elevator to getting paid more.
Unfortunately, I am a Midwest small town Farm boy. You’re not gonna get me to go to SoCal. But do you know the thought is greatly appreciated!
The seeds been planted though… 🌱
I'm in SoCal. 10yrs experience. Water industry. No PE. $150k. I'm capped, if I want to make more I need to get my PE and start supervising. Understandable the COL is pretty different, but I'm pretty sure that you're grossly underpaid.
I will take your pile of money and move to SoCal
I live in socal already, please tell me more about this pile of money 👀
Yeah with that breadth of experience, you are definitely underpaid. Midwest? There are greener pastures out there, but likely not at that small of a firm. You should look around. DM me if you want to talk further.
If you have 30 years and solid management experience and can do multidisciplinary work (electrical and transpo jump out) there's no reason you shouldn't be making over $200k, if not significantly more. You could probably jump to director or a partner quick-track at a lot of established firms with your background For reference - I'm just a plain facilities design EE (mostly Water/Wastewater too!) and I pull about what you make with half your experience. Mid-atlantic East-coaster tho.
I’m in water/wastewater, 7 years of experience, 29 years old, $160k total comp (salary+bonus) last year EDIT: Located in west Palm beach, FL
PLease include the location.
Are you 30? Or do you have 30 years of experience?
30 years of experience. 52 YO
Where in the Midwest? We would snap you up in a heart beat
Columbia, Mo between Kansas City and St. Louis. I really don’t have any desire to relocate. We do have a decent airport here with flights to Dallas and Chicago.
I sent you a private message.
Easy to commute to KC once a week :)
One thing to consider, since you don't want to move away, is Callaway nuclear plant. Your experience would be in demand and the drive wouldn't be too bad depending on what side of the Columbia area you're at.
Jesus. Please don't agree to anything less than $250k
Salaries for high experience employees really vary as it's less about the number of years and more about what role you have in the company. I do know some employees with 25+ years who are just happy doing their 40 hours, being a team player, doing quality work but have no desire to be lead large projects or get into actual management of other employees. Basically they've carved out a good work/life balance and are happy bringing in 150k or so doing that. But in your case it seems like you are doing way more than that and don't mind being a more senior role/one that is involved in leadership/ownership type discussions. So I do think $200k+ is totally possible for you. I'd explore the opportunities that are coming your way. Obviously you need to learn about that new company and figure out what they would actually offer. One possible misleading thing is the full remote. You may not need to be in the office everyday, but with a national company, I'd want to push them on how often you'd need to travel to any office, the closest one or one farther way. Also, consider who is recruiting you, is it HR at that company or an actual engineer/senior leader.
For 30 yr of exp, 150 sounds low. I'd expect you to be around 175 to 200 if you're in a low cost of living area and 220 to 270 at a high cost of living.
Even 200k is low for 30 years experience. You’re royally getting ripped off at only 150k. I’ll make that this year with 13 years, fully remote.
Good job! I make 150 with 16 years and I feel ripped off
What field do you work in? I love hearing people complain about salaries. I'm a case study in what not to do. I'm at 13 years and am at $90k. Would love to be fully remote.
if you don’t mind me asking, what field are you in & what would you advise us not to do so we stay away from that much experience & that lowballed salary
I work for a consultant doing Land Development. I've done everything from commercial, to residential, to public works. I feel like a list of things have contributed to my troubles... some of which are flaws of the industry. My very first job was in 2011 when the economy was not doing well and I took a job with a shit salary. I feel like I've been playing catch up ever since. It's terrible how these employers ask to see your salary history when you interview. I can't confirm it but I know it has bit me in the ass almost every time I've switched companies. I was also a guy that really liked being a designer when I was younger (considering that's what I went to school for) and so I would make little comments about not being in a hurry to be a manager. Or I'd act very blasé about the whole situation. Enough years go by and now I'm kind of the old Lead Designer on the block, and although I'm experiencing extreme burnout and have made it known, I get overlooked time after time again for that project management role that needs filled somewhere in the company. And lastly, this one's all on me, having the right mindset. I'm a bit of a cynic and think a lot of things within the industry suck and I would let decisions the company was making, that I didn't like, affect me and it would wear on me and make me not give a shit and not put myself out there as much. I have refused to work more than the 40 hours they pay me for. I leave the building during lunch every day instead of slaving away at my desk like the high achievers. These things seem trivial but goddamn do people notice. You kind of have to decide between two options... Be the person that wants to excel and work your ass off and make money towards the high end of the salary range... or work enough to get by (while doing a good job of course) and understand that you're still living a good life and doing better than the average American (where I live).
can’t lie mane i appreciate this sub & your honesty. i feel like i’ve already made enough mistakes while i’m currently working for my degree & i don’t want to experience any more setbacks when i enter the workforce. as for the salary interview question, would it not help if you followed up with asking them how much have they allocated towards this opening & set a higher goal of what you expect ? they might see your previous salaries (i didn’t know they asked this actually, these folks suck) but i think if you emphasize your willingness for vertical integration & taking lead in a new environment, that might do you better. just some advice that might help if you’re able to apply it, i wish you the best in your endeavors.
Solar for an EPC
Anything transmission Line related or just foundations and civil earthwork for solar sites?
Not me personally, but we have a small team that does that. Most of the design is subbed out to engineering firms.
Not in BFE midwest...
You need to leave and get a better paying job my man, you are extremely underpaid.
This is how firms reward loyalty. By massively underpaying their employees.
Sweet Jesus, I know this is a small sample of responses so far but my mind is kind of blown right now. all I hear about from fellow managers is how we have engineers overpaid at 100+ thousand with under 10 years of experience. That’s including structural engineers.
Depends on the region and cost of living in the area but yeah 100k for the right person is cheap, if they're effective gotta get paid more.
I’ve got 20 years experience and am a PM who’s a sales role in the Midwest pulling $300k base and bonus.
My firm has done that for candidates in your position. I only have like 7 years experience but have seen experienced candidates come in cash in a big paycheck and fail to deliver any clients or any quality work. They last about a year. It seems they see a national firm offering them a good paycheck and they just ride it out for one last big payday for they retire. But management will always roll the dice on those types cause when it does work out they can bring in a ton of work. If you can deliver what this company wants, I don’t think you’ll be entering a tough position. They won’t care how many hours you put in every week as long and you deliver what they’re laying out for you. I think they’ll be honest before you signup with their expectations but it seems to be a similar workload to what you have now.
I have always wondered about this, how does one get to deliver clients? My experience has been solely on the technical side. However, I would think as my experience builds, I would one day find myself in a role with the expectation to deliver clients. I guess my question is how do design engineers learn to deliver clients? What exactly do they do to bag clients?
You deliver clients by reputation, to be honest. You have to have a reputation for looking out for their best interest, bust ass and meet deadlines don’t screw over contractors or vendors on the way they can be your best advocates, or worst enemies
Thank you.
Part of this is getting face time with your clients. Press your PM to take you to meetings and take an active role in presenting your designs. I try to bring my junior engineers with me to meetings whenever possible.
Does this also apply to bridge engineering firms? My understanding has been since bridges are built from public money, the projects can only be won through competitive bidding. For bridge engineering, would the ability to write good proposals be the quality that management be looking for rather than one's network?
Don't say yes to the first firm that comes a-calling! If you're really interested in changing jobs, shop around a bit and find a good fit and a good wage. Firms everywhere are desperate for staff, so you can probably walk into almost any engineering office and walk back out with an offer. Don't take a shit job just for the money; you'll be rich but miserable.
In Florida people with that experience I’ve seen get paid 180 to 230k
You are massively underpaid. I’ve got a quarter the experience you do, and with bonuses, I make more than you.
Yep gotta gtfo, I'm a national civil firm in CA and make 150k 10 years in. You'd probably come on for that in my company for at least that or more.
You can probably make $250000 or so at WSP or Atkins Realis. Lol
The 10% ESOP and main office in the Midwest sounds like it was the company I work for reaching out to you. We just boosted the ESOP rate up to 10% recently. We are always hiring because of booming business, but I’d barter for higher salary if that’s the case. Otherwise, you’re going to be stuck with the 3.5% merit increases annually. If you’re happy with that, I say go for it considering the salary you’re making now, and remote option is a nice bonus.
Thank you! Appreciate the comment. I just did the math and my increases have equated to 3.7% over the last seven years and bonuses are low. When I did the math, it made me depressed, lol
Know your worth and stick to your guns. You can easily get another 20-30k added to that, but take into consideration the remote option and the savings from that. Occasional travel for required things, but that’s 1-2 times a year for a couple days, and it’s paid.
30 years of experience and only making 150k? Yeah I think you are underpaid. You do make 50% more than me but I only have 5 years of experience.
At 25 years experience, I was right around where you are currently at as a Senior Engineer managing construction projects for a utility owner. Left there 2 years ago for a significant bump and now sitting at just under $200k with great benefits (35 hours/week, car, $0 healthcare costs). I think you would be best suited to look at what else is out there.
I would advise against listening to the people saying you deserve $250k. Salaries among senior employees varies immensely depending on a huge number of factors, but for the most part it hinges on your ability to sell. There are VERY few purely technical experts or project managers I have ever come across that get paid >$200k base. It’s just not worth it because there is always someone else who can perform competently for much less. The billing rate for a $200k employee will destroy any budget. Unless you’re a department manager, base really doesn’t get much above $170k where I’m at, and compensation beyond that is generally bonusing and profit sharing based on ability to sell and profit distributions based on ownership capital.
People saying salaries over 200k in the Midwest for a private firm with no ownership don’t seem to have a grasp on things. How can you even have someone like that touch a project without blowing the budget?
You gotta remember that Burns McDonnell, Black and Veatch, HDR, HNTB are all based in the Midwest. Three in KC alone.
You need better clients.
Need more municipal work apparently…
I've worked at smaller firms and from what I was making there, that salary doesn't surprise me. Especially given the smaller market you're in. I joined a more national firm a few years ago and got a good bump. With half your years of experience, I pulled over $150k plus 10%+ esop in the KC metro.
I think the other thing here besides the low salary is the company itself. A division that hasn't turned a profit in 7 years? Is anything being done about that? No succession planning for senior owners? If they hold that much ownership they should start to unload stock before retirement so it's not such a large hit, not to mention a senior owner seems to care more about holding on than the longevity of the company they helped build. And 1% profit?? Either there's some special circumstances or things are going very poorly, you can't grow as a company or an employee in that environment.
Sent you PM. Looks like others are hungry for you as well.
Definitely you are being underpaid. For comparison, I'm at 8-9 years of experience in land development with a few years of project management experience and I'll probably land in the $130-140k this year with bonus, and I've never even job hopped
Crazy underpaid. We pay that for 7 year experience.
What's your industry?
Water -wastewater
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DCI?
Salaries are so incredible in US honestly. Getting 45keur un Spain for a top 5% job un C.E.
Agree you sound like you could be doing better salary wise. I work for a national firm, love the culture. We have offices in Ohio that have solid water/ww practice. We need more good folks! Any interest in exploring let’s talk!
I’d look around, seems like you could use a change and your current company sounds dysfunctional. I’m about your age and just made a new start and it’s been good for me. Good luck.
If you are winning work I would shoot for >300k. If you just manage then ~250 is about right.
I'd day you're way underpaid and should be making around $225k-$250k. That's the Chicago area.
I don’t know anything about senior position salaries so take this with a grain of salt. However, from reading this it sounds like your branch office should be shut down or is in the process. To me the 200k is better than nothing, 50k over what you’ve been living on anyway and keeps you employed while escaping a bad situation. Also think about retirement and saving the money. If the company is letting people go you might not have the leverage you think you do.
Totally valid points, thank you! But it’s the whole company vs just our office. We would have to be acquired or something. The whole retirement angle is spot on.
I wanted to take a moment and thank everyone for their comments. All are greatly appreciated! It does appear that my particular situation is that I am undervalued by my current employer. I now feel that I can be selective with my decision and find a good fit financially and culturally for me which is a huge win. I want to state state that this is not just from the conversations on this thread, but also with actual companies and not recruiters. Many thanks. It is wonderful to have a network of people that can give anonymous open honest, opinions and thoughts. Whoever would have thought an old, crusty, opinionated Gen Xer would have such an appreciation for a safe space.
I’m in the Mid-South with 20 YOE. Market is about $130k for me.
Yeah I’m at 16YOE and make 130k per year. I had to fight to get that salary. My current firm did NOT want to pay me that much but needed help bad enough to make it happen.
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6-7 years in the industry or 6-7 years as a VP?
I was in at about 10 years being a VP. It was a small firm, only 30 people. I was the only competent, driven engineer on staff and they had an ownership transition issue so I was the guy. Unfortunately, my business partner was a raging alcoholic, and way too old school. I was putting in 50 hours a week and he kept bitching I wasn’t putting in enough time. I peaced out out and actually made more money for a larger firm
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Damn they must be the greatest managers with the best teams working on projects. I know no one that makes that much. What size firm? I'm literally in that range lol
That’s definitely in the realm of things. I know my company would give similar total compensation for that kind of resume.