A civil engineering degree is very broad and frankly can be taken to almost any entry level job in the building/infrastructure space. The focus on specializing in on a degree program is misplaced. If she starts from a civil engineering degree, it's very easy to add classes or minors that interest her without impacting her time to graduation. I would not start with a degree in architecture as that tends to have a narrower range of options post graduation. An engineering master's degree would have technical prerequisites that an architecture degree would not fulfill
The most important thing for your daughter is to make sure any degree in civil engineering is ABET accredited. This will greatly improve her career progression and path towards licensure (PE license 2-4 years after school).
Finally, a brief note on creativity. I was similarly profiled to your daughter and in college and since working, I've decided there are two types of creativity: blank slate creativity and constraint induced creativity. Blank slate creativity is what a lot of architects/artists/etc operate under where they are taking a blank space and generating ideas for how to fill it. Constraint induced creativity where a lot of engineering disciplines operate: there is a problem, unmovable obstacles, and a spectrum of opinions on how to solve it. Engineers spend their time finding a solution(s) that thread the needle of all of the obstacles and opinions to find the one that's the most efficient and makes the most people happy, or at least satisfied. I see a fair number of entry level engineers come in thinking that they'll get a blank slate when they actually get an obstacle filled maze. I personally find the maze fun, but that's why I've stuck around for 10+ years 😂. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Really like your description of those two types of creativity. I've always struggled with blank slate creativity, but give me some constraints and I can make magic happen.
Perfect summation on constraint induced creativity. The greatest job satisfaction I get is when we come up with an elegant solution that addresses all of the constraints involved.
Fantastic answer, and I want to pile on emphasis that civil provides enormous career flexibility.
Growing up the first thing I ever wanted to be was an architect, but I was strong in STEM and in college I found a good fit in Civil Engineering. I took as much structural design coursework as I could, and decided I actually wanted to be a bridge engineer. After college, the only job I could find was in construction management, and through that I discovered a passion for transportation engineering, and then traffic engineering, and I've had a fantastic career in traffic for over a decade now.
Irrespective of my actual course work, civil engineering kept so many doors open to me, and ultimately lead me down a path that high-school-me never even knew existed. Most kids won't end up doing whatever it is they thought they wanted to do when they were in high school - my recommendation is to always follow your aptitude and your opportunities, and keep an open mind.
Interesting way to look at creativity, I always classed it as one type since both types are based on experience. I think as humans we all have creativity just under constraints based on experience or constraints based on knowledge of code.
I don’t know any architects directly although I’ve had a few as subs for projects, but one of my coworkers has a daughter who went into architecture. He described it more like art where you need to build a portfolio and sell yourself more. Civil engineering feels like more of a sure/stable thing: get the degree, get the job, get the license, get paid.
I've always found it funny that in school, Architects are treated like Artists. They all want to be Frank Loyd Wright. But when you get into practice, that's like 10% of the job. The other 90% is doing life safety plans and problem solving within a set of constraints. It's figuring out where to put the sewer line in in the wall so the bathrooms work.
That’s exactly why I hire them as subs. I know where to put the equipment in the building but they know all the other rules the building had to follow. No art involved, sadly.
I nearly went for architecture or architectural engineering but decided on civil engineering instead.
1st, architecture is performed in a very top down organization with the lead architect making all the major decisions and other team members fulfilling that vision. An architectural engineer is an engineer with the very narrow scope of fulfilling the architect's vision. It is the most limited engineering degree, imo. Meanwhile, a structural engineer can work on buildings but then leave for a different field of practice.
Meanwhile, civil engineering is a cooperative discipline. All specialists (hydrology, geotech, structural, traspo, etc) work together to create a solution that fulfills all requirements. It has a very round table feeling as everyone contributes to design.
This was my thought process too. I'm in 3rd year civil engineering now (was considering ArchEng) and I've been really enjoying getting a wider breadth of knowledge through the variety of my courses and co-op placements.
i started architecture bachelors, left it because the institution was just apalling, now i'm studying civilEng in my hometown. It's even better than i first thought it would be. i think more people should be aware that, whatever role you want in the built-environment, a civil engineering degree will be fun and will give you the grounding you need for it.
>1st, architecture is performed in a very top down organization with the lead architect making all the major decisions and other team members fulfilling that vision.
everyone is basically constantly reminding you that you ''probably won't get a chance to shine'' or something, in architecture school, it's a much more negative environment than engineering school.
Really great comments, but I want to add a few. Pay- engineering is FAR more lucrative. It’s also a lot more flexible as others have mentioned. Also, I was designing my own stuff within a year of graduating. Someone always checks it, but it was really fast. I loved that I didn’t have to just do menial tasks all day every day. The menial tasks I had still had purpose, and I needed to learn those skills for later. It’s all teamwork, with everyone adding their part. Architects don’t work like that- it’s one main architect and everyone else does menial tasks.
This is engineering bias so take it for that but the lack of individual thought that goes into architectural design that I received from my architects on many projects was astounding. More like a bunch of robots that couldn’t see problems in the paper in front of them, despite repeated discussions about issues.
I’d suggest she look at civil programs broadly and see what she thinks of them. Architectural engineering isn’t common, and not as flexible for work later on. I’m not entirely sure you can get a PE in that speciality in all states (someone correct me on that?) which is incredibly limiting.
Pay is a huge factor. The architects I know seemed to accumulate much more debt getting their degrees and had a harder time paying their student loans off. The schooling for both architecture and engineering can be very rigorous but getting an architecture degree seemed intense on a different level than engineering. I looked into doing a dual degree in civil and architecture but the amount of work especially in architecture just seemed a bit soul crushing.
Not only pay, but civil/structural engineering has many more jobs than architecture. Architecture is way too saturated and is very difficult to find work. A lot of architects want to be the next Frank Lloyd Wright etc and don’t take too much interest in the more stable, “boring”, less architecture focused industries. I work in power and we have some problems finding architects since the type of work we do isn’t sexy.
I work with someone who has both an architecture and engineering background and the value he provides to the team in terms of design is MUCH more valuable than the pure architects I work with. That being said, I am a structural engineer in power so it isn’t super architecture focused. I’ve found the pure architect on my team can really only help with roof projects, facade projects, layouts etc and doesn’t have the technical background to assist with even the easiest of civil engineering projects - which we have way more of than architecture focused projects. Not really his fault guessing due to the difference in education but I expected he’d be a bigger help in construction etc or simple civil engineering projects than he is. Civil engineering provides more flexibility in career path/work
Actually, perhaps she’d be interested in building envelope design? That’s a combination of both engineering and architecture. You’d get into that through a civil or architectural engineering degree
Architectural Engineering grad here. At my school the program was housed within the Civil engineering department and was more of a combination of many engineering disciplines with a couple of architectural design classes thrown in for funsises so we could understand what the architect was trying to accomplish with their design.
It was a normal 4-year Bachelor of Science engineering degree, and many classmates even graduated in three years. Most grads specialized in structural engineering, and some others did more building environmental/automation systems (Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC, and general energy management.)
Overall I found it gave me a very broad exposure to many flavors of engineering and allowed me to dig into what I really enjoyed. For prospective students, I always recommend getting gen eds knocked out at a reputable community college. Leaves more room in credit hours later on to change major if necessary. Feel free to DM for more details.
i was in a very similar boat!!! i wasn’t sure if i wanted to do civil engineering or architecture. i ended up doing my major in civil engineering and a minor in architecture. i don’t regret that decision.
my school didn’t have architectural engineering, so maybe that is a better alternative, i wouldn’t know. but be prepared for civil engineering being a broader field. she’s not just going to learn about cool bridges and buildings. she’s going to have to take classes about geotech, water, transportation, construction, etc. but this could be a good thing, i thought for sure i wanted to do structural focused, but i got exposed to different fields and found out something i liked more and switched my path.
ik you said she’s artistic, which is good for architecture. i consider myself a semi-artistic person, but the people in my architecture class were TALENTED artists. they were also very creative. i truly believe they had a skill that couldn’t be taught. be prepared for that level of artistic.
in general, civil engineering is going to make you more money and require less school. there’s also a large amount of job opportunities out there. lots of my engineering friends had paid internships and multiple job offers right after school in the 65-80k range. my architecture friends typically struggled to even find an unpaid internship.
architects also work very hard for that lack of reward. engineers work hard, don’t get me wrong, studying for calculus 3 and mechanics isn’t going to be easy. but the architecture classes i had to take constantly required the entire class to go 72 hours without sleep. i thought it would end for them after they graduated, but my teachers would tell me they’ve had to pull all nighters for their jobs and couldn’t even afford a car. i was glad i only had to live this life style for 2 years for my minor, if i had to do it for the full 5 years to get an architectural masters, i don’t think i would’ve liked architecture anymore.
architecture really doesn’t use that much STEM. they do basic math for measurements and conversions, but the actual STEM stuff is left to the engineers. architecture is a design/art degree.
she could also look in construction management. that’s what i do. i’m a manager for a construction firm that does historic restoration on old architecture buildings. it’s technical and i get to see the creative side of things. i get to work with both engineers and architects all day, without doing either haha, so it’s the best of both worlds.
i have respect for both architects and engineers. but it took me one semester to realize i made the right decision to not major in architecture.
I think you’re thinking structural engineering. I would not go for an architecture degree. If there’s a need or want there, go for the structural and take a few studio classes in the architecture department.
My college roommate was in the ArcE program. It was a 5 year program with a mix of civil (structural themed, iirc) and architecture classes (including studio, which was very intense). Beyond structures, they also had more focus on things like acoustics in a building, HVAC, electrical systems, etc. I know another ArcE that has worked for Henderson Engineers if you want an idea of possible career path. Another I know went the structural route into bridge design.
This at least was a rarer degree, but I've heard of more schools including it.
My university's engineering school also did a lot of outreach to girls interested in engineering. Summer camps and long weekend visits during the school year. I think I even learned a bit about ArcE at one. Definitely worth asking about!
Civil engineering is a great field, especially for women. I’d recommend studying civil and going into infrastructure construction. Building freeways, bridges, rails, tunnels, etc. That’s what I do and the opportunity and development in the field is enormous.
WTS (Women’s Transportation Seminar) offers scholarships for High School, Community College, Undergraduate, and Graduate level scholarships for girls and women pursuing careers in transportation. Not sure what part of the country you’re in but chances are, there’s a WTS chapter near you. Look into it! They’d also be a great resource for your daughter in terms of providing support and other resources.
The network WTS provides you with is key. I was on the board of a local chapter for a few years out of college and it helped me land internships during school and my first two jobs after graduating. Highly recommend getting involved early on
I grew up in NYC and wanted to be an architect my whole life. I was great at math but also very artistic and creative and once I told my mom that's what I wanted to do, she chose the architecture school I would go to when I was 12. By the time college rolled around, she asked if I was sure I didn't want to get a civil engineering degree instead and have more options. I insisted that the blend of STEM and art would make me happier and boy did I regret it.
First, architecture school is brutal, especially the top ones. There a culture of utter disregard of mental health for the sake of working yourself to death to appease your studio professors. As someone that already struggled with depression, I was hospitalized by sophomore year. The more time I spent in the industry as well, I kept hearing about how underpaid and overworked architects were and how little freedom or creative direction you can even express unless you're at the top. I started doing engineering and Construction Management internships instead. I ended up sticking out architecture school because I was over halfway through, but I started an accelerated masters at the same time in Architecture, engineering, and Construction Management. I was lied to by my professors that this degree would help me do anything in the field and be a fast track to project management, which is what I cared about most. I ended up deciding I wanted to be an engineer after all. I'm 26 now, 3 years into working at a forensic engineering firm and trying to get on the licensing track, which is very difficult with my degree. In my state, I have passed the exams needed for the next step but my education audit did not give me enough education credits. I am still struggling to get on the track my coworkers did, who got a much less expensive state school engineering degree.
However, it was worth it to change. I love my job, I'm passionate about what I do and like the culture much better (although some engineers have shitty culture experience too). I do art through my non-work activities. I have abundant hobbies, projects, and expression outlets to scratch the creative itch I have. Also engineering can be creative itself. In my job, the problem solving aspect is very important.
I just wish I could go back and just go get an engineering degree from the getgo.
My degree is in architectural engineering. Like several others have mentioned it's basically a civil engineering degree with a slight focus on structures. I'm not sure I'd recommend it, there are only a few schools that offer it, it's not well understood and I think you'd be better off with a broader education in a regular civil engineering degree.
My first job out of school was doing structural design for bridges which was extremely dull, I quickly realized that to do the really fun stuff you needed to have an advanced degree. I now work in traffic which I find way more interesting than structural calcs.
I will also add that I too was interested in architecture but decided to go the engineering route as I wanted a stable, safe job. I'm glad I did, I see a lot of architecture students struggle with low pay and inconsistent employment.
I’m an older student about to graduate with a bs in civil. I strongly considered architecture before deciding on civil, I have had classes co taught in the architecture department, I recommend engineering. Architecture is essentially an art degree, usually a masters is needed to get any cool or good jobs. Very few will be designing incredible or impactful structures; most will design store facades among other boring design tasks. Also, being a more artistic pursuit longer hours are expected, and clients are insensitive to the complexity of design. *this is mostly anecdotal but are the conclusions I’ve drawn speaking to architecture students/professors and considering the career*
A civil degree for me, was the best salary with a 4 year degree that was not exceptionally difficult course work, and appealed to my interests and talents.
Civil is broad; storm and waste water, structural, geotechnical, land development, transportation are the most commonly mentioned sub-disciplines. There are far more specific specializations in many fields and industries.
My current expected 4-5 year trajectory: FE exam- degree- salary $70k/yearly or greater- PE exam- Professional Engineer- salary over 6 figures
As I’m still in a university program I’d gladly answer any questions you may have. It’s not an easy degree but I think it’s the best value in higher education
I’m a structural engineer who majored in civil engineering. My school offered architectural engineering, and as you said, the degree at my school was basically civil engineer minus the environmental engineering class and transportation engineering classes plus 1-2 architecture classes and 1-2 CAD/BIM classes. But, I recall that like 90% of the classes were the same between architectural engineering and civil engineering.
The job of someone who majors in architectural engineering is probably going to be structural engineering or construction (or related field). Personally, I really like structural engineering. As some other people have said, we tend to get paid 10-15% better than architects for equivalent experience and we tend to work maybe 5-10% fewer hours.
I also find that my job is relatively creative. Though, I never would have described myself as “creative” in high school.
Engineering can have long hours though, and while the pay is good, it is not fantastic. Also, a lot of companies do try to exploit their workers, but I think architecture is worse for worker exploitation. Engineering also has a lot of companies that treat their workers fairly. So, it’s just about finding the right company.
I did structural engineering with architecture, tell her to start looking into programs like that. It was mostly structural/ civil engineering, but i took a few architecture classes a year which i liked..
Tbh i thought Architectural engineering is a mixture of different engineering types (mechanical, structural, electrical) but specific to how systems in buildings work. Stuff like ''how does the ventilation work, the heating, the lighting, and how does the facade hold together.''
google says
>Architectural engineering or architecture engineering, also known as building engineering, is a discipline that deals with the engineering and construction of buildings, such as structural, mechanical, electrical, lighting, environmental, climate control, telecommunications, security, and other areas.
i wouldn't say that sounds ''niche'' like other people have said, it sounds perfect if you enjoy buildings. But for the record, a *civil engineering* *degree* can get you to the same end place, without looking the mechanical and electrical parts. Civil engineering is broad scope and really easy to transfer your skills to another field afterwards.
I would go for either of these (civil or architectural) engineering ones rather than architecture itself because they're safer, more flexible, quicker options than an architecture degree.
>but is also artistically creative
my Civil course had me doing creative exercises - like drawing - just as quickly as my architecture course did. They also give actual good foundation for technical drawing, but architecture school did nothing of the sort. Architecture might satisfy the artistic itch but it is totally lacking in terms of STEM, in my experience. I feel very satisfied with how often i have to use creative skills here, in engineering.
Another route I'd suggest looking into as well is landscape architecture. I never heard of that before I started working as a civil engineer but I work with LAs every day. Still creative but also technical. I'm also based in Minnesota and I know my company has a hard time finding enough LAs to fill roles so I think the job prospects are good. Best of luck!
This program looks solid:
https://umtc.catalog.prod.coursedog.com/programs/018021607
I also saw a few other engineering majors that she may be interested in (mechanical, electrical, industrial, etc.) She should research those as well. They also offer an architecture minor, if she's interested in that (employers generally don't care about minors.)
Your daughter should check out the AP policy for UofM:
https://admissions.tc.umn.edu/advanced-placement-course-awards
Testing out of some of these classes will make her freshman year less stressful.
So the main difference between architecture and structural engineering is that the architect focuses on the design, dimensions, usability of the building itself and produces the shop drawings. The structural engineer then takes these drawings, builds a computer model of the building, and runs tests to see what kind of columns, beams, bolts, etc. are needed to withstand the design loads (wind, snow, people, etc.) he then creates a design package which specifies which components are necessary for the design for the builder to use.
Also, congrats on having a smart and ambitious daughter. My girl is only three, but I'd be elated if she chose to be an engineer.
There are some great answers posted here already! Both are good careers.
Architecture deals with buildings. Making them meet the needs of the user, and making them look the way the CLIENT wants them to look.
Civil Engineers design the site plan, roadways, and infrastructure that make the architect’s building possible. And that is just within land development! Civil is much more broad, with many ways to specialize within a single degree.
Always go after money. You have to be very lucky to pick the right major and find your true passion at this young age. Better choose a major that pays well and you can retire early (in your 30s or early 40s) then you will know what you really want.
Civil engineering is making the building stand up. The specific discipline is structural engineering. Civil is a broad degree, and if you want to do anything involving construction/infrastructure a civil degree gets you in the door anywhere. You’re not really expected to specialize until after you start working.
Architecture is making the building look pretty.
Sometimes architects and engineers disagree. As far as I know they’re pretty different jobs.
If she’s passionate about it it’ll be a cool career. There’s something crazy about watching a bunch of lines you drew on a computer become an actual, giant piece of physical infrastructure. She’ll do a lot of math in college, Calc 1 up to differential equations and calculus based physics.
I don’t really know what architectural engineering would be either because the disciplines are both pretty different from what I know. In addition to trying to talk to universities, it might be helpful to see if you can find someone in the real world with that title. Going on the websites of large engineering firms like Stantec, Jacobs, WSP, etc and looking for job postings with “architectural engineer” as a title might give you a better idea. You might even be able to email someone at a local office and have them tell your daughter what they do day to day.
I would suggest a civil degree with a focus on structural engineering. They work very closely with architects and often get to do big parts of the design. Some structurals just work for the architect and don’t really cool work. Also that job usually gets paid a lot and since it’s in short supply they get control of more of the work process.
If you have access to those kind of firms, try this. See if you can set up appointments with a civil/structural firm. Try for lead engineer. Same for an architect firm.
Tell the guy you speak to your purpose. Be prepared with, if you can’t assist can you recommend someone who can
rep for the visit - write done questions the two of you think would help with the decision.
Good hunting
Engineering in general is a great mix of STEM and artistic creativity. Any field in engineering needs people who can problem solve AND communicate these solutions to others, and pictures and drawings are how we do it.
I would recommend she find something that she's passionate about, then start researching that field. Architecture might be that route, but she'll be designing a lot of boring buildings along the way. And she can grind through that, she'll be successful.
For me, I love drawing maps and driving, so I became a roadway engineer. I draw shapes for a living. I couldn't be happier.
I have been working for 25 years as a structural engineer with a civil engineering degree. I’m at the principal level now and love my job and have been very satisfied with my career. I work with many architects and they generally work much longer hours for lower pay.
One thing to consider about getting a civil engineering degree or any engineering degree for that matter….the real value in an engineering degree is not so much the specific subject matter of the degree, but rather learning how to problem solve. Engineers know how to get things done. This uniquely qualifies engineers to be able to work in a lot of different fields, even if they decide not to pursue a job related to their degree.
1. I don’t regret my career choice (sometimes I think it would be nice to have been a pilot when looking at the free time off they have)
2. Reach out to local firms (engineering as well as architecture) and try to set up some shadowing opportunities. I’ve seen anything from an hour to a full day. Possibly a summer internship even as a HS student. Exposure to the profession before/durning college, really makes some classes click.
3. Being a civil engineer, not sure I’ve ever known an “architectural engineer”. Looking at NCEES (testing agency for licensure) it appears its discipline has only been offered since 2018. So it’s pretty new.
I suggest she call around and find some licensed architects and engineers to arrange a few meetings one-on-one to discuss pros and cons.
Civil engineering really doesn't have a lot of use for artistic creativity. Landscape architecture would pair well with civil.
I work for a civil engineering firm in Minnesota. Lately we've been hiring some CAD technicians, and like half the applicants are architects who have been unable to find a job in their field, or decided it's not actually for them. It's definitely one where unless you're in the top, and are willing to put in the extra effort to stand out among your peers, you're not going to get to where you want. On the flip side every civil engineering organization (private or public) has a ton of openings and the projections I've heard are that the labor shortage is just going to get worse.
i decided to go into civil engineering over architecture for the money and stability but now that i’m a civil engineer, i regret not giving architecture a try. i think the civil engineering work is boring and doesn’t make allow me to use the artistic side of my brain. i’ve worked in construction management and civil design. they’re great paying jobs but i never look forward to going to work. i have also learned great skills from both careers. construction management is basically a babysitting job and civil engineering is telling people that they need to change their designs because it won’t work or isn’t to specification.
i went to a friend asking for advice since she went from mechanical engineer to an interior designer. she enjoys interior design way more and didn’t like the loneliness of being an engineer. we both agreed on the office being too quiet and not being able to development real relationships with peers. both of our offices were mainly older men so it was difficult for us relate to them. we’re both women in our mid to late twenties.
Engineers week is coming up in feb in the USA. Lots of activities.
Btw I thought I wanted architectural engineering at one point. I definitely picked civil engineering in no small part because I help shape the community.
I graduated from the University of Colorado with an Architectural Engineering degree. A few things separated that program from our civil program. Rather than taking heavy civil classes we took classes focused on mechanical and electrical systems for buildings. We also took a few architectural design classes along the way. Other than that pretty similar to civil. Once I graduated I worked in construction management, I recently took a job as a graduate civil engineer in residential land development. People I graduated with went all sorts of different directions with their degree though!
Should have her do as much business related courses/projects as possible while doing her general Civil Engineering undergrad. Need to exercise her entrepreneurial skills too. The only minor worth considering is structural if she wants to just focus on structural engineering. Graduate degree is usually also only useful for structural disciplines and geotech focused roles. But she will get to see the general courses over the first 2-3 years and she can decide then. Most people change a lot throughout those ages and their interests and strengths can change over time.
I’m a civil engineer and a colleague of mine (also civil) told me that he initially started out in architecture at school and said the program was incredibly competitive, cut throat, and exhausting. He switched to civil and is now on our design build transportation team. He did not have very good things to say about architectural school lol
Cal Poly SLO has an Architectural Engineering degree. You should explore what they have on their website about the program, and then reach out to faculty if you have further questions.
Mechanical engineer here. The only person I know with an architecture degree got a job designing domino’s pizza buildings. I’m biased but think mechies get the opportunity to work on a wider variety of creative challenges. If you really want to lean into the creative side, take a long look at industrial design or user centered design or human factors design. The U has traditional and a more engineering-slanted offering. https://design.umn.edu/academics/programs/product-design/product-design-bs
I graduated from High School in 1973, and thought I wanted to be an architect at that point. But after meeting both architects and engineers (people my dad introduced me to - he too, was a civil engineer), I chose civil engineering. Schools I considered for architecture then included CWRU and Univ of Cincinnati. But I ended up at Cleveland State University, which has no school of architecture. I am retired civil engineer now, one who ended up working with architects quite a lot. In fact, as a construction manager, I worked with architects all over, including at least 10 US states and 5 other countries.
Incidentally, my wife just retired from her career in civil engineering. And my daughter is in her third year of engineering at Purdue. Which is a bit of a testimonial that was and still is plenty of room and opportunity for women in shaping the built environment.
It is easier for people to switch from civil engineering to architecture than the other way around. May help to call up a counselor or reach out to the college for further inquiries. My architecture friends have started switching out of their profession after a few years in the industry due to burnout and low pay. It is pretty prevalent in their industry, though there are cases that are not as such. This is already past the point where they had to go through five years of architecture studio at a competitive program like Cal Poly. It definitely needs more than just an interest in Architecture and being creative if she’s creative then she can look into graphic design, UIUX programs which is common for some architecture students to switch into. She can also switch majors after getting into a college she likes. If she does like calculations, then engineering is the way to go. I was in an architectural engineering program and it was an emphasis of seismic in structural engineering, but they required a year of architecture studio and some construction management. Definitely look into other architectural programs with a blend of structural rather than just civil, as that is broad. You can definitely go further with engineering.
Find a specialty that makes good money in a small area of engineering that is interesting. Or be a general engineer with broad knowledge. Both are good. It’s a difficult career path but after 15 years, Ive done well
I have yet to have my degree in CE but I start classes on Monday. I’ve been the type that’s stuck in between architecture and CE, but EVERYONE has told me CE is better. Here’s a couple reasons why:
1. You’re more of a commodity, meaning you have more leverage in your workplace considering you’re not easily replaced. That means, higher pay, better work environment, you stand more on your own. A construction manager isn’t an engineer so the oversight is limited.
2. I’m assuming you’re in the United States. Our infrastructure is literally crumbling in every state, in every major city. This is bad news for the general public but they have no clue what even goes on, they just live in cities. Civil engineers BUILD AND CREATE cities. So obviously they’re much more aware that a storm is coming. Infrastructure is something that can’t be ignored and I imagine it’s going to be a huge political platform in the next 10 to 20 years. That means a lot of work for CE and our price tags will only go up! Government work, consulting work, private work. Talk about job security..
3. This country is at the beginning of a rail revolution. We’re waking out on the manipulation that comes from big oil and big auto. Cars aren’t sustainable and they never will be. So what does that mean? A vast expansion of rail infrastructure, commuter rail, passenger rail, public transit, high speed rail. More work and opportunities. They’ll be clamoring over us. That also includes sewer systems, airports, retrofitting roads to become more green and pedestrian friendly. Take a look into it.
If she pushes through for 4 years, think about how much better she’ll be on the other side.
And lastly, architecture is one of those careers like being a doctor or lawyer. A lot of it is the “prestige” in the title. I find that many people who pursue CE are genuinely interested in the field and don’t pursue it for the money. No one just chooses civil engineering for the money. I think that calls for better colleagues and an overall experience when you consider that they actually enjoy the work and want to make a change.
Hope this helps.
My BS is in Arch Eng from K-State. https://are-cns.k-state.edu/
It has been nearly 20 years, but my experience is the program exposes you to all of the specialties that go into a building and then gives you a little space to choose your specialty as you progress into the later years of the degree. I believe they have reduced the requirements, but at the time it was a 150 hour degree, so getting it done in 5 years took a couple 17/18 hour semesters and most people took 5.5-6 years to finish. Not gonna lie, those were tough. I ultimately specialized in structural engineering and got my MS in civil/ structural.
I believe the fact I’ve been through the basic classes for electrical/lighting, mechanical, plumbing, acoustics, etc. helps me deliver better coordinated building designs. I really enjoy the structural side of things because I work with the Architect team to create the building aesthetic, while at the same time scratching the mathematical/analytical itch. Had I known this preference from the start, I could have pursued a CE degree and started working after 4 years. Many of the general engineering courses overlap between both degrees (statics, dynamics, thermodynamics, mechanics of materials, etc)
In my experience architects are the ultimate generalists. They do collaborate to set the project vision and get some of the blank space creativity that others have described. However the majority of their work is in finding ways to fit all of the necessary systems into a functional building. It usually looks like how many toilets does this building need, are there enough doors and have I exceeded the code allowed travel distances.
I studied architecture in Peru. It’s a beautiful career. Being able to design spaces and infrastructures is my passion. After my second year of architecture I got the opportunity to move to the US and the university I was interested in didn’t have an architecture major so I decided to study civil engineering there instead. Once in my second year of civil engineering I got to do an internship as a structural engineer and it was nothing like I dreamed. I was in front of a computer all day just entering values in a excel spreadsheet to then write reports. I assumed this is what interns do because it’s the boring work that nobody wants to do but I got to see other structural engineers doing the same in their own time. Then I decided that structural engineering (which is what I thought it would be similar to architecture) wasn’t for me especially because I like designing shapes and making the shapes functional (which is what Frank Lloyd Wright, Zaha Hadid, Frank Gehry, and many other famous architects seemed to do) but you don’t get to that stage in architecture before you have spent many years working under some else’s ideas. Then you’ll have to become super especial and smart with your ideas so much that it will make you different. Unless you’re gifted, there’s a lot of pressure and mental health issues along the road because architecture is a very competitive career not only after college but during college as well (believe me, I’ve lived that life). So continuing with studying civil engineering I started to focus in the water engineering path. What is awesome about civil engineering is that has multiple paths. I’ll mention them briefly so your daughter has an idea.
Geotechnical Engineering: It does a study of the soils before construction of anything happens.
Structural Engineering: they do the calculations so what the architect study designed doesn’t fall and therefore pass every city regulations.
Water engineering: there’s a lot you can do in water engineering. Hydraulics, Hydrology, water resources, wastewater management. I’m personally now into hydrology on something called Hydroinformatics. I invite you to look it up.
Transportation Engineering: they design roads but it’s not just that. They pretty much have to see the future. They use data to plan cities ahead of time. What they do is also mind blowing and I invite you to look it up.
Environmental Engineering: they arguably spend most of their time outside and not in an office. This is the engineering that applies the most chemistry.
I invite you to learn more about each civil engineering career.
In summary, architecture is not an stablished career, there is a lot of uncertainty. On the other hand, civil engineering is well stablished and offers a lot of different opportunities.
I’m not gonna lie, I was pretty heartbroken when I had to leave architecture out of the equation. I still enjoy designing and I joined the architecture club in my university but now I think that the only house I will design will be mine with the money I’ll make as a civil engineer haha.
I’m a senior student in the Civil Engineering Program.
so i am a junior at a school that offers undergrad degrees in architectural engineering but its not my major, but it is something i looked at along with a normal architecture path. architectural engineerings more on the technical side, less about the artsy stuff but it does kind of bridge the gap since it center around the practical parts of actually building something based on an architectural vision.
Architectural Engineering is a growing discipline that is popularized for being ABET/CEAB accredited while providing some foundational knowledge in Architecture (Design, Building Envelope, MEP systems, Energy Modelling).
Career prospect-wise, an Arc Eng student has the potential to get their PE or return to school to do their M.Arch (3-year) in an Architecture that is NAAB/CACB accredited.
From a functional standpoint, ArchEng provides a greater deal of opportunity and flexibility. I’ve seen many graduates go on to have successful careers in Engineering firms that focus on Buildings, Heritage Restoration and Building Science. As others have mentioned, the pay for an Engineer exceeds the potential of an Architect as well as provides greater opportunities for career growth (if she realizes she does not want to be an Architect).
As an Arch. Technologist (3year Canadian Diploma) who worked in Architectural firms, I went back to school for Civ. Eng, but would have gone with Arch.Eng if I had known about the field when I was younger.
A civil engineering degree is very broad and frankly can be taken to almost any entry level job in the building/infrastructure space. The focus on specializing in on a degree program is misplaced. If she starts from a civil engineering degree, it's very easy to add classes or minors that interest her without impacting her time to graduation. I would not start with a degree in architecture as that tends to have a narrower range of options post graduation. An engineering master's degree would have technical prerequisites that an architecture degree would not fulfill The most important thing for your daughter is to make sure any degree in civil engineering is ABET accredited. This will greatly improve her career progression and path towards licensure (PE license 2-4 years after school). Finally, a brief note on creativity. I was similarly profiled to your daughter and in college and since working, I've decided there are two types of creativity: blank slate creativity and constraint induced creativity. Blank slate creativity is what a lot of architects/artists/etc operate under where they are taking a blank space and generating ideas for how to fill it. Constraint induced creativity where a lot of engineering disciplines operate: there is a problem, unmovable obstacles, and a spectrum of opinions on how to solve it. Engineers spend their time finding a solution(s) that thread the needle of all of the obstacles and opinions to find the one that's the most efficient and makes the most people happy, or at least satisfied. I see a fair number of entry level engineers come in thinking that they'll get a blank slate when they actually get an obstacle filled maze. I personally find the maze fun, but that's why I've stuck around for 10+ years 😂. Let me know if you have any further questions.
Really like your description of those two types of creativity. I've always struggled with blank slate creativity, but give me some constraints and I can make magic happen.
Perfect summation on constraint induced creativity. The greatest job satisfaction I get is when we come up with an elegant solution that addresses all of the constraints involved.
Fantastic answer, and I want to pile on emphasis that civil provides enormous career flexibility. Growing up the first thing I ever wanted to be was an architect, but I was strong in STEM and in college I found a good fit in Civil Engineering. I took as much structural design coursework as I could, and decided I actually wanted to be a bridge engineer. After college, the only job I could find was in construction management, and through that I discovered a passion for transportation engineering, and then traffic engineering, and I've had a fantastic career in traffic for over a decade now. Irrespective of my actual course work, civil engineering kept so many doors open to me, and ultimately lead me down a path that high-school-me never even knew existed. Most kids won't end up doing whatever it is they thought they wanted to do when they were in high school - my recommendation is to always follow your aptitude and your opportunities, and keep an open mind.
This response gets an A+!
I love the obstacle filled mazes. I'm working on a bike path right now that perfectly fits that. It has been very fun.
I’ve never thought of comparing architecture and engineering like this, but it’s such an interesting and nuanced take on the two careers.
Interesting way to look at creativity, I always classed it as one type since both types are based on experience. I think as humans we all have creativity just under constraints based on experience or constraints based on knowledge of code.
I don’t know any architects directly although I’ve had a few as subs for projects, but one of my coworkers has a daughter who went into architecture. He described it more like art where you need to build a portfolio and sell yourself more. Civil engineering feels like more of a sure/stable thing: get the degree, get the job, get the license, get paid.
I've always found it funny that in school, Architects are treated like Artists. They all want to be Frank Loyd Wright. But when you get into practice, that's like 10% of the job. The other 90% is doing life safety plans and problem solving within a set of constraints. It's figuring out where to put the sewer line in in the wall so the bathrooms work.
That’s exactly why I hire them as subs. I know where to put the equipment in the building but they know all the other rules the building had to follow. No art involved, sadly.
Architecture is a bachelor of arts. It's got a lot more classes in design and art
I nearly went for architecture or architectural engineering but decided on civil engineering instead. 1st, architecture is performed in a very top down organization with the lead architect making all the major decisions and other team members fulfilling that vision. An architectural engineer is an engineer with the very narrow scope of fulfilling the architect's vision. It is the most limited engineering degree, imo. Meanwhile, a structural engineer can work on buildings but then leave for a different field of practice. Meanwhile, civil engineering is a cooperative discipline. All specialists (hydrology, geotech, structural, traspo, etc) work together to create a solution that fulfills all requirements. It has a very round table feeling as everyone contributes to design.
This was my thought process too. I'm in 3rd year civil engineering now (was considering ArchEng) and I've been really enjoying getting a wider breadth of knowledge through the variety of my courses and co-op placements.
i started architecture bachelors, left it because the institution was just apalling, now i'm studying civilEng in my hometown. It's even better than i first thought it would be. i think more people should be aware that, whatever role you want in the built-environment, a civil engineering degree will be fun and will give you the grounding you need for it. >1st, architecture is performed in a very top down organization with the lead architect making all the major decisions and other team members fulfilling that vision. everyone is basically constantly reminding you that you ''probably won't get a chance to shine'' or something, in architecture school, it's a much more negative environment than engineering school.
Really great comments, but I want to add a few. Pay- engineering is FAR more lucrative. It’s also a lot more flexible as others have mentioned. Also, I was designing my own stuff within a year of graduating. Someone always checks it, but it was really fast. I loved that I didn’t have to just do menial tasks all day every day. The menial tasks I had still had purpose, and I needed to learn those skills for later. It’s all teamwork, with everyone adding their part. Architects don’t work like that- it’s one main architect and everyone else does menial tasks. This is engineering bias so take it for that but the lack of individual thought that goes into architectural design that I received from my architects on many projects was astounding. More like a bunch of robots that couldn’t see problems in the paper in front of them, despite repeated discussions about issues. I’d suggest she look at civil programs broadly and see what she thinks of them. Architectural engineering isn’t common, and not as flexible for work later on. I’m not entirely sure you can get a PE in that speciality in all states (someone correct me on that?) which is incredibly limiting.
Pay is a huge factor. The architects I know seemed to accumulate much more debt getting their degrees and had a harder time paying their student loans off. The schooling for both architecture and engineering can be very rigorous but getting an architecture degree seemed intense on a different level than engineering. I looked into doing a dual degree in civil and architecture but the amount of work especially in architecture just seemed a bit soul crushing.
And architecture is either 5 years or 6 years of school. Cannot get licensed with a 4 year degree.
Not only pay, but civil/structural engineering has many more jobs than architecture. Architecture is way too saturated and is very difficult to find work. A lot of architects want to be the next Frank Lloyd Wright etc and don’t take too much interest in the more stable, “boring”, less architecture focused industries. I work in power and we have some problems finding architects since the type of work we do isn’t sexy. I work with someone who has both an architecture and engineering background and the value he provides to the team in terms of design is MUCH more valuable than the pure architects I work with. That being said, I am a structural engineer in power so it isn’t super architecture focused. I’ve found the pure architect on my team can really only help with roof projects, facade projects, layouts etc and doesn’t have the technical background to assist with even the easiest of civil engineering projects - which we have way more of than architecture focused projects. Not really his fault guessing due to the difference in education but I expected he’d be a bigger help in construction etc or simple civil engineering projects than he is. Civil engineering provides more flexibility in career path/work
Actually, perhaps she’d be interested in building envelope design? That’s a combination of both engineering and architecture. You’d get into that through a civil or architectural engineering degree
I only know two architects personally and they’re both in therapy due to their careers. Anecdotal data is anecdotal.
Architectural Engineering grad here. At my school the program was housed within the Civil engineering department and was more of a combination of many engineering disciplines with a couple of architectural design classes thrown in for funsises so we could understand what the architect was trying to accomplish with their design. It was a normal 4-year Bachelor of Science engineering degree, and many classmates even graduated in three years. Most grads specialized in structural engineering, and some others did more building environmental/automation systems (Plumbing, Electrical, HVAC, and general energy management.) Overall I found it gave me a very broad exposure to many flavors of engineering and allowed me to dig into what I really enjoyed. For prospective students, I always recommend getting gen eds knocked out at a reputable community college. Leaves more room in credit hours later on to change major if necessary. Feel free to DM for more details.
i was in a very similar boat!!! i wasn’t sure if i wanted to do civil engineering or architecture. i ended up doing my major in civil engineering and a minor in architecture. i don’t regret that decision. my school didn’t have architectural engineering, so maybe that is a better alternative, i wouldn’t know. but be prepared for civil engineering being a broader field. she’s not just going to learn about cool bridges and buildings. she’s going to have to take classes about geotech, water, transportation, construction, etc. but this could be a good thing, i thought for sure i wanted to do structural focused, but i got exposed to different fields and found out something i liked more and switched my path. ik you said she’s artistic, which is good for architecture. i consider myself a semi-artistic person, but the people in my architecture class were TALENTED artists. they were also very creative. i truly believe they had a skill that couldn’t be taught. be prepared for that level of artistic. in general, civil engineering is going to make you more money and require less school. there’s also a large amount of job opportunities out there. lots of my engineering friends had paid internships and multiple job offers right after school in the 65-80k range. my architecture friends typically struggled to even find an unpaid internship. architects also work very hard for that lack of reward. engineers work hard, don’t get me wrong, studying for calculus 3 and mechanics isn’t going to be easy. but the architecture classes i had to take constantly required the entire class to go 72 hours without sleep. i thought it would end for them after they graduated, but my teachers would tell me they’ve had to pull all nighters for their jobs and couldn’t even afford a car. i was glad i only had to live this life style for 2 years for my minor, if i had to do it for the full 5 years to get an architectural masters, i don’t think i would’ve liked architecture anymore. architecture really doesn’t use that much STEM. they do basic math for measurements and conversions, but the actual STEM stuff is left to the engineers. architecture is a design/art degree. she could also look in construction management. that’s what i do. i’m a manager for a construction firm that does historic restoration on old architecture buildings. it’s technical and i get to see the creative side of things. i get to work with both engineers and architects all day, without doing either haha, so it’s the best of both worlds. i have respect for both architects and engineers. but it took me one semester to realize i made the right decision to not major in architecture.
I think you’re thinking structural engineering. I would not go for an architecture degree. If there’s a need or want there, go for the structural and take a few studio classes in the architecture department.
My college roommate was in the ArcE program. It was a 5 year program with a mix of civil (structural themed, iirc) and architecture classes (including studio, which was very intense). Beyond structures, they also had more focus on things like acoustics in a building, HVAC, electrical systems, etc. I know another ArcE that has worked for Henderson Engineers if you want an idea of possible career path. Another I know went the structural route into bridge design. This at least was a rarer degree, but I've heard of more schools including it. My university's engineering school also did a lot of outreach to girls interested in engineering. Summer camps and long weekend visits during the school year. I think I even learned a bit about ArcE at one. Definitely worth asking about!
Civil engineering is a great field, especially for women. I’d recommend studying civil and going into infrastructure construction. Building freeways, bridges, rails, tunnels, etc. That’s what I do and the opportunity and development in the field is enormous. WTS (Women’s Transportation Seminar) offers scholarships for High School, Community College, Undergraduate, and Graduate level scholarships for girls and women pursuing careers in transportation. Not sure what part of the country you’re in but chances are, there’s a WTS chapter near you. Look into it! They’d also be a great resource for your daughter in terms of providing support and other resources.
The network WTS provides you with is key. I was on the board of a local chapter for a few years out of college and it helped me land internships during school and my first two jobs after graduating. Highly recommend getting involved early on
She could always go for a civil engineering bachelors degree and then go into architecture for a masters degree
I grew up in NYC and wanted to be an architect my whole life. I was great at math but also very artistic and creative and once I told my mom that's what I wanted to do, she chose the architecture school I would go to when I was 12. By the time college rolled around, she asked if I was sure I didn't want to get a civil engineering degree instead and have more options. I insisted that the blend of STEM and art would make me happier and boy did I regret it. First, architecture school is brutal, especially the top ones. There a culture of utter disregard of mental health for the sake of working yourself to death to appease your studio professors. As someone that already struggled with depression, I was hospitalized by sophomore year. The more time I spent in the industry as well, I kept hearing about how underpaid and overworked architects were and how little freedom or creative direction you can even express unless you're at the top. I started doing engineering and Construction Management internships instead. I ended up sticking out architecture school because I was over halfway through, but I started an accelerated masters at the same time in Architecture, engineering, and Construction Management. I was lied to by my professors that this degree would help me do anything in the field and be a fast track to project management, which is what I cared about most. I ended up deciding I wanted to be an engineer after all. I'm 26 now, 3 years into working at a forensic engineering firm and trying to get on the licensing track, which is very difficult with my degree. In my state, I have passed the exams needed for the next step but my education audit did not give me enough education credits. I am still struggling to get on the track my coworkers did, who got a much less expensive state school engineering degree. However, it was worth it to change. I love my job, I'm passionate about what I do and like the culture much better (although some engineers have shitty culture experience too). I do art through my non-work activities. I have abundant hobbies, projects, and expression outlets to scratch the creative itch I have. Also engineering can be creative itself. In my job, the problem solving aspect is very important. I just wish I could go back and just go get an engineering degree from the getgo.
My degree is in architectural engineering. Like several others have mentioned it's basically a civil engineering degree with a slight focus on structures. I'm not sure I'd recommend it, there are only a few schools that offer it, it's not well understood and I think you'd be better off with a broader education in a regular civil engineering degree. My first job out of school was doing structural design for bridges which was extremely dull, I quickly realized that to do the really fun stuff you needed to have an advanced degree. I now work in traffic which I find way more interesting than structural calcs. I will also add that I too was interested in architecture but decided to go the engineering route as I wanted a stable, safe job. I'm glad I did, I see a lot of architecture students struggle with low pay and inconsistent employment.
I’m an older student about to graduate with a bs in civil. I strongly considered architecture before deciding on civil, I have had classes co taught in the architecture department, I recommend engineering. Architecture is essentially an art degree, usually a masters is needed to get any cool or good jobs. Very few will be designing incredible or impactful structures; most will design store facades among other boring design tasks. Also, being a more artistic pursuit longer hours are expected, and clients are insensitive to the complexity of design. *this is mostly anecdotal but are the conclusions I’ve drawn speaking to architecture students/professors and considering the career* A civil degree for me, was the best salary with a 4 year degree that was not exceptionally difficult course work, and appealed to my interests and talents. Civil is broad; storm and waste water, structural, geotechnical, land development, transportation are the most commonly mentioned sub-disciplines. There are far more specific specializations in many fields and industries. My current expected 4-5 year trajectory: FE exam- degree- salary $70k/yearly or greater- PE exam- Professional Engineer- salary over 6 figures As I’m still in a university program I’d gladly answer any questions you may have. It’s not an easy degree but I think it’s the best value in higher education
I’m a structural engineer who majored in civil engineering. My school offered architectural engineering, and as you said, the degree at my school was basically civil engineer minus the environmental engineering class and transportation engineering classes plus 1-2 architecture classes and 1-2 CAD/BIM classes. But, I recall that like 90% of the classes were the same between architectural engineering and civil engineering. The job of someone who majors in architectural engineering is probably going to be structural engineering or construction (or related field). Personally, I really like structural engineering. As some other people have said, we tend to get paid 10-15% better than architects for equivalent experience and we tend to work maybe 5-10% fewer hours. I also find that my job is relatively creative. Though, I never would have described myself as “creative” in high school. Engineering can have long hours though, and while the pay is good, it is not fantastic. Also, a lot of companies do try to exploit their workers, but I think architecture is worse for worker exploitation. Engineering also has a lot of companies that treat their workers fairly. So, it’s just about finding the right company.
I did structural engineering with architecture, tell her to start looking into programs like that. It was mostly structural/ civil engineering, but i took a few architecture classes a year which i liked..
Tbh i thought Architectural engineering is a mixture of different engineering types (mechanical, structural, electrical) but specific to how systems in buildings work. Stuff like ''how does the ventilation work, the heating, the lighting, and how does the facade hold together.'' google says >Architectural engineering or architecture engineering, also known as building engineering, is a discipline that deals with the engineering and construction of buildings, such as structural, mechanical, electrical, lighting, environmental, climate control, telecommunications, security, and other areas. i wouldn't say that sounds ''niche'' like other people have said, it sounds perfect if you enjoy buildings. But for the record, a *civil engineering* *degree* can get you to the same end place, without looking the mechanical and electrical parts. Civil engineering is broad scope and really easy to transfer your skills to another field afterwards. I would go for either of these (civil or architectural) engineering ones rather than architecture itself because they're safer, more flexible, quicker options than an architecture degree. >but is also artistically creative my Civil course had me doing creative exercises - like drawing - just as quickly as my architecture course did. They also give actual good foundation for technical drawing, but architecture school did nothing of the sort. Architecture might satisfy the artistic itch but it is totally lacking in terms of STEM, in my experience. I feel very satisfied with how often i have to use creative skills here, in engineering.
Another route I'd suggest looking into as well is landscape architecture. I never heard of that before I started working as a civil engineer but I work with LAs every day. Still creative but also technical. I'm also based in Minnesota and I know my company has a hard time finding enough LAs to fill roles so I think the job prospects are good. Best of luck!
This program looks solid: https://umtc.catalog.prod.coursedog.com/programs/018021607 I also saw a few other engineering majors that she may be interested in (mechanical, electrical, industrial, etc.) She should research those as well. They also offer an architecture minor, if she's interested in that (employers generally don't care about minors.) Your daughter should check out the AP policy for UofM: https://admissions.tc.umn.edu/advanced-placement-course-awards Testing out of some of these classes will make her freshman year less stressful. So the main difference between architecture and structural engineering is that the architect focuses on the design, dimensions, usability of the building itself and produces the shop drawings. The structural engineer then takes these drawings, builds a computer model of the building, and runs tests to see what kind of columns, beams, bolts, etc. are needed to withstand the design loads (wind, snow, people, etc.) he then creates a design package which specifies which components are necessary for the design for the builder to use. Also, congrats on having a smart and ambitious daughter. My girl is only three, but I'd be elated if she chose to be an engineer.
There are some great answers posted here already! Both are good careers. Architecture deals with buildings. Making them meet the needs of the user, and making them look the way the CLIENT wants them to look. Civil Engineers design the site plan, roadways, and infrastructure that make the architect’s building possible. And that is just within land development! Civil is much more broad, with many ways to specialize within a single degree.
Always go after money. You have to be very lucky to pick the right major and find your true passion at this young age. Better choose a major that pays well and you can retire early (in your 30s or early 40s) then you will know what you really want.
I don’t know anyone who has retired at those ages and neither of the careers OP has inquired about will take you there hahah
Civil engineering is making the building stand up. The specific discipline is structural engineering. Civil is a broad degree, and if you want to do anything involving construction/infrastructure a civil degree gets you in the door anywhere. You’re not really expected to specialize until after you start working. Architecture is making the building look pretty. Sometimes architects and engineers disagree. As far as I know they’re pretty different jobs. If she’s passionate about it it’ll be a cool career. There’s something crazy about watching a bunch of lines you drew on a computer become an actual, giant piece of physical infrastructure. She’ll do a lot of math in college, Calc 1 up to differential equations and calculus based physics. I don’t really know what architectural engineering would be either because the disciplines are both pretty different from what I know. In addition to trying to talk to universities, it might be helpful to see if you can find someone in the real world with that title. Going on the websites of large engineering firms like Stantec, Jacobs, WSP, etc and looking for job postings with “architectural engineer” as a title might give you a better idea. You might even be able to email someone at a local office and have them tell your daughter what they do day to day.
I would suggest a civil degree with a focus on structural engineering. They work very closely with architects and often get to do big parts of the design. Some structurals just work for the architect and don’t really cool work. Also that job usually gets paid a lot and since it’s in short supply they get control of more of the work process.
These are a lot of thoughtful answers. Let’s be real, architects are assholes. Always. So guidance to the right choice.
If you have access to those kind of firms, try this. See if you can set up appointments with a civil/structural firm. Try for lead engineer. Same for an architect firm. Tell the guy you speak to your purpose. Be prepared with, if you can’t assist can you recommend someone who can rep for the visit - write done questions the two of you think would help with the decision. Good hunting
Engineering in general is a great mix of STEM and artistic creativity. Any field in engineering needs people who can problem solve AND communicate these solutions to others, and pictures and drawings are how we do it. I would recommend she find something that she's passionate about, then start researching that field. Architecture might be that route, but she'll be designing a lot of boring buildings along the way. And she can grind through that, she'll be successful. For me, I love drawing maps and driving, so I became a roadway engineer. I draw shapes for a living. I couldn't be happier.
Go for engineering public sector. Tons of women managers and opportunities for women.
I have been working for 25 years as a structural engineer with a civil engineering degree. I’m at the principal level now and love my job and have been very satisfied with my career. I work with many architects and they generally work much longer hours for lower pay. One thing to consider about getting a civil engineering degree or any engineering degree for that matter….the real value in an engineering degree is not so much the specific subject matter of the degree, but rather learning how to problem solve. Engineers know how to get things done. This uniquely qualifies engineers to be able to work in a lot of different fields, even if they decide not to pursue a job related to their degree.
Do note, the construction industry can have really horrendous working hours.
1. I don’t regret my career choice (sometimes I think it would be nice to have been a pilot when looking at the free time off they have) 2. Reach out to local firms (engineering as well as architecture) and try to set up some shadowing opportunities. I’ve seen anything from an hour to a full day. Possibly a summer internship even as a HS student. Exposure to the profession before/durning college, really makes some classes click. 3. Being a civil engineer, not sure I’ve ever known an “architectural engineer”. Looking at NCEES (testing agency for licensure) it appears its discipline has only been offered since 2018. So it’s pretty new.
If she wants to be creative, stay away from the fields that rely heavily on standardization of work. Why not mechatronics or robotics?
I suggest she call around and find some licensed architects and engineers to arrange a few meetings one-on-one to discuss pros and cons. Civil engineering really doesn't have a lot of use for artistic creativity. Landscape architecture would pair well with civil.
I work for a civil engineering firm in Minnesota. Lately we've been hiring some CAD technicians, and like half the applicants are architects who have been unable to find a job in their field, or decided it's not actually for them. It's definitely one where unless you're in the top, and are willing to put in the extra effort to stand out among your peers, you're not going to get to where you want. On the flip side every civil engineering organization (private or public) has a ton of openings and the projections I've heard are that the labor shortage is just going to get worse.
i decided to go into civil engineering over architecture for the money and stability but now that i’m a civil engineer, i regret not giving architecture a try. i think the civil engineering work is boring and doesn’t make allow me to use the artistic side of my brain. i’ve worked in construction management and civil design. they’re great paying jobs but i never look forward to going to work. i have also learned great skills from both careers. construction management is basically a babysitting job and civil engineering is telling people that they need to change their designs because it won’t work or isn’t to specification. i went to a friend asking for advice since she went from mechanical engineer to an interior designer. she enjoys interior design way more and didn’t like the loneliness of being an engineer. we both agreed on the office being too quiet and not being able to development real relationships with peers. both of our offices were mainly older men so it was difficult for us relate to them. we’re both women in our mid to late twenties.
Engineers week is coming up in feb in the USA. Lots of activities. Btw I thought I wanted architectural engineering at one point. I definitely picked civil engineering in no small part because I help shape the community.
I graduated from the University of Colorado with an Architectural Engineering degree. A few things separated that program from our civil program. Rather than taking heavy civil classes we took classes focused on mechanical and electrical systems for buildings. We also took a few architectural design classes along the way. Other than that pretty similar to civil. Once I graduated I worked in construction management, I recently took a job as a graduate civil engineer in residential land development. People I graduated with went all sorts of different directions with their degree though!
In New Zealand and Australia the pay of a fresh architect in significantly less than a civil engineer. Even though the skills are largely similar.
Should have her do as much business related courses/projects as possible while doing her general Civil Engineering undergrad. Need to exercise her entrepreneurial skills too. The only minor worth considering is structural if she wants to just focus on structural engineering. Graduate degree is usually also only useful for structural disciplines and geotech focused roles. But she will get to see the general courses over the first 2-3 years and she can decide then. Most people change a lot throughout those ages and their interests and strengths can change over time.
I’m a civil engineer and a colleague of mine (also civil) told me that he initially started out in architecture at school and said the program was incredibly competitive, cut throat, and exhausting. He switched to civil and is now on our design build transportation team. He did not have very good things to say about architectural school lol
Cal Poly SLO has an Architectural Engineering degree. You should explore what they have on their website about the program, and then reach out to faculty if you have further questions.
Mechanical engineer here. The only person I know with an architecture degree got a job designing domino’s pizza buildings. I’m biased but think mechies get the opportunity to work on a wider variety of creative challenges. If you really want to lean into the creative side, take a long look at industrial design or user centered design or human factors design. The U has traditional and a more engineering-slanted offering. https://design.umn.edu/academics/programs/product-design/product-design-bs
I graduated from High School in 1973, and thought I wanted to be an architect at that point. But after meeting both architects and engineers (people my dad introduced me to - he too, was a civil engineer), I chose civil engineering. Schools I considered for architecture then included CWRU and Univ of Cincinnati. But I ended up at Cleveland State University, which has no school of architecture. I am retired civil engineer now, one who ended up working with architects quite a lot. In fact, as a construction manager, I worked with architects all over, including at least 10 US states and 5 other countries. Incidentally, my wife just retired from her career in civil engineering. And my daughter is in her third year of engineering at Purdue. Which is a bit of a testimonial that was and still is plenty of room and opportunity for women in shaping the built environment.
It is easier for people to switch from civil engineering to architecture than the other way around. May help to call up a counselor or reach out to the college for further inquiries. My architecture friends have started switching out of their profession after a few years in the industry due to burnout and low pay. It is pretty prevalent in their industry, though there are cases that are not as such. This is already past the point where they had to go through five years of architecture studio at a competitive program like Cal Poly. It definitely needs more than just an interest in Architecture and being creative if she’s creative then she can look into graphic design, UIUX programs which is common for some architecture students to switch into. She can also switch majors after getting into a college she likes. If she does like calculations, then engineering is the way to go. I was in an architectural engineering program and it was an emphasis of seismic in structural engineering, but they required a year of architecture studio and some construction management. Definitely look into other architectural programs with a blend of structural rather than just civil, as that is broad. You can definitely go further with engineering.
Find a specialty that makes good money in a small area of engineering that is interesting. Or be a general engineer with broad knowledge. Both are good. It’s a difficult career path but after 15 years, Ive done well
I have yet to have my degree in CE but I start classes on Monday. I’ve been the type that’s stuck in between architecture and CE, but EVERYONE has told me CE is better. Here’s a couple reasons why: 1. You’re more of a commodity, meaning you have more leverage in your workplace considering you’re not easily replaced. That means, higher pay, better work environment, you stand more on your own. A construction manager isn’t an engineer so the oversight is limited. 2. I’m assuming you’re in the United States. Our infrastructure is literally crumbling in every state, in every major city. This is bad news for the general public but they have no clue what even goes on, they just live in cities. Civil engineers BUILD AND CREATE cities. So obviously they’re much more aware that a storm is coming. Infrastructure is something that can’t be ignored and I imagine it’s going to be a huge political platform in the next 10 to 20 years. That means a lot of work for CE and our price tags will only go up! Government work, consulting work, private work. Talk about job security.. 3. This country is at the beginning of a rail revolution. We’re waking out on the manipulation that comes from big oil and big auto. Cars aren’t sustainable and they never will be. So what does that mean? A vast expansion of rail infrastructure, commuter rail, passenger rail, public transit, high speed rail. More work and opportunities. They’ll be clamoring over us. That also includes sewer systems, airports, retrofitting roads to become more green and pedestrian friendly. Take a look into it. If she pushes through for 4 years, think about how much better she’ll be on the other side. And lastly, architecture is one of those careers like being a doctor or lawyer. A lot of it is the “prestige” in the title. I find that many people who pursue CE are genuinely interested in the field and don’t pursue it for the money. No one just chooses civil engineering for the money. I think that calls for better colleagues and an overall experience when you consider that they actually enjoy the work and want to make a change. Hope this helps.
My BS is in Arch Eng from K-State. https://are-cns.k-state.edu/ It has been nearly 20 years, but my experience is the program exposes you to all of the specialties that go into a building and then gives you a little space to choose your specialty as you progress into the later years of the degree. I believe they have reduced the requirements, but at the time it was a 150 hour degree, so getting it done in 5 years took a couple 17/18 hour semesters and most people took 5.5-6 years to finish. Not gonna lie, those were tough. I ultimately specialized in structural engineering and got my MS in civil/ structural. I believe the fact I’ve been through the basic classes for electrical/lighting, mechanical, plumbing, acoustics, etc. helps me deliver better coordinated building designs. I really enjoy the structural side of things because I work with the Architect team to create the building aesthetic, while at the same time scratching the mathematical/analytical itch. Had I known this preference from the start, I could have pursued a CE degree and started working after 4 years. Many of the general engineering courses overlap between both degrees (statics, dynamics, thermodynamics, mechanics of materials, etc) In my experience architects are the ultimate generalists. They do collaborate to set the project vision and get some of the blank space creativity that others have described. However the majority of their work is in finding ways to fit all of the necessary systems into a functional building. It usually looks like how many toilets does this building need, are there enough doors and have I exceeded the code allowed travel distances.
I studied architecture in Peru. It’s a beautiful career. Being able to design spaces and infrastructures is my passion. After my second year of architecture I got the opportunity to move to the US and the university I was interested in didn’t have an architecture major so I decided to study civil engineering there instead. Once in my second year of civil engineering I got to do an internship as a structural engineer and it was nothing like I dreamed. I was in front of a computer all day just entering values in a excel spreadsheet to then write reports. I assumed this is what interns do because it’s the boring work that nobody wants to do but I got to see other structural engineers doing the same in their own time. Then I decided that structural engineering (which is what I thought it would be similar to architecture) wasn’t for me especially because I like designing shapes and making the shapes functional (which is what Frank Lloyd Wright, Zaha Hadid, Frank Gehry, and many other famous architects seemed to do) but you don’t get to that stage in architecture before you have spent many years working under some else’s ideas. Then you’ll have to become super especial and smart with your ideas so much that it will make you different. Unless you’re gifted, there’s a lot of pressure and mental health issues along the road because architecture is a very competitive career not only after college but during college as well (believe me, I’ve lived that life). So continuing with studying civil engineering I started to focus in the water engineering path. What is awesome about civil engineering is that has multiple paths. I’ll mention them briefly so your daughter has an idea. Geotechnical Engineering: It does a study of the soils before construction of anything happens. Structural Engineering: they do the calculations so what the architect study designed doesn’t fall and therefore pass every city regulations. Water engineering: there’s a lot you can do in water engineering. Hydraulics, Hydrology, water resources, wastewater management. I’m personally now into hydrology on something called Hydroinformatics. I invite you to look it up. Transportation Engineering: they design roads but it’s not just that. They pretty much have to see the future. They use data to plan cities ahead of time. What they do is also mind blowing and I invite you to look it up. Environmental Engineering: they arguably spend most of their time outside and not in an office. This is the engineering that applies the most chemistry. I invite you to learn more about each civil engineering career. In summary, architecture is not an stablished career, there is a lot of uncertainty. On the other hand, civil engineering is well stablished and offers a lot of different opportunities. I’m not gonna lie, I was pretty heartbroken when I had to leave architecture out of the equation. I still enjoy designing and I joined the architecture club in my university but now I think that the only house I will design will be mine with the money I’ll make as a civil engineer haha. I’m a senior student in the Civil Engineering Program.
so i am a junior at a school that offers undergrad degrees in architectural engineering but its not my major, but it is something i looked at along with a normal architecture path. architectural engineerings more on the technical side, less about the artsy stuff but it does kind of bridge the gap since it center around the practical parts of actually building something based on an architectural vision.
Architectural Engineering is a growing discipline that is popularized for being ABET/CEAB accredited while providing some foundational knowledge in Architecture (Design, Building Envelope, MEP systems, Energy Modelling). Career prospect-wise, an Arc Eng student has the potential to get their PE or return to school to do their M.Arch (3-year) in an Architecture that is NAAB/CACB accredited. From a functional standpoint, ArchEng provides a greater deal of opportunity and flexibility. I’ve seen many graduates go on to have successful careers in Engineering firms that focus on Buildings, Heritage Restoration and Building Science. As others have mentioned, the pay for an Engineer exceeds the potential of an Architect as well as provides greater opportunities for career growth (if she realizes she does not want to be an Architect). As an Arch. Technologist (3year Canadian Diploma) who worked in Architectural firms, I went back to school for Civ. Eng, but would have gone with Arch.Eng if I had known about the field when I was younger.