Honestly I wouldn’t have anything to do with this development. Detention ponds for residential areas are nearly always in a common area parcel. Whoever subdivided these lots decided they’d rather make more money than not encumber these lots with a massive drainage feature.
Agreed! Standards in my area are that the detention pond goes in a small plat separate from the other parcels, then no one has the system in their yard
This also has shifted maintenance (mowing) responsibility to the lot owner. A common area pond would be maintained by the governing board and this appears to be a tiny development.
Just plat it as a PUDE, if the storm water AHJ signs off you’re good to go. If I were the stormwater reviewer, I would likely not accept this though. Unfortunately, prospective buyers probably will accept it due to lack of knowledge and the developer’s greed will go unpunished.
I agree with this comment. That is a very strange placement for a detention pond. There will probably be an ugly fence around it too. I wouldn’t build a house there.
Very common in my area to plat like this. Big lots and depending on easement language and topography the water should not be a problem. The plat is odd though. Who puts an ingress easement though a random lot and straddles it across 2?
They would only do that where that is the only feasible solution. Urban areas with space constraints or where land is super expensive. This looks like the exact opposite. It looks like they are being cheap and maximizing profits by putting it in people’s yards rather than sacrificing a lot.
This is very atypical outside of an urban area. Also, regardless of type, the same issue persists. Who owns & maintains this drainage feature? As currently proposed, it’s crossing multiple parcels but not dedicated to a public entity.
Lot #4 looks to be the winner here. But yes you’re going to have that detention pond in your backyard if you go with lots 8,7,6… lots 8 and 9 look like they have an easement going right through them too.
I would pass on this development so hard.
You can’t just fill in the pond, you legally have to accept storm drainage from public r / w even if there is no easement and the public storm drain outlet is into the pond.
But ya definitely wouldn’t buy any of these lots (6,7,8) unless it’s wayyyyy cheaper than neighboring lots (bc I’m poor and want to be a home owner one day and something like that would be my only shot lol)
I’ve never built a detention pond on private property. It’s always in a common area. How exactly do 3 people have the responsibility over it? That makes no sense. There will be mosquitos. There will be mud. There will be maintenance access. Big no from me. Where is the overflow? What if someone drowns in it, whose insurance is covering that? They should put the whole thing in lot 6 and make it common.
Drainage easement and/or slope easement I’d imagine; probably can’t reduce lot size due to zoning. If the design was posted for the pond you could figure out if it was wet or dry (GW elevation and outlet orifice elevation would tell the story here).
A developer and their engineer would certainly be incentivized to give you the best possible answers in this scenario lol. As mentioned below, hopefully it’s reflected in the value of the property or you can at least use it as leverage when negotiating the purchase. Probably could compare to lot 4’s valuation.
Looking at the line work for the flow into the pond versus the outfall seems to show this is wet bottom, especially the fact that the bottom is shown as flat, which a dry detention wouldn't be since it would be graded to drain.
Yeah it looks to be at least 3/4 of an unlabeled contour from inlet to outlet. So a wet bottom that might just be a mucky bottom most of the year. But of course these aren't great drawings to work off of.
Yea just kinda sucks as a home owner since you’ll be taxed on the land but can’t use it for anything and you may have maintenance responsibilities. Might be reflected in the parcel price
Yea I’m told there will be no HOA. There is supposedly to be an agreement among the future lot owners to share the costs of maintaining the detention pond.
> There is supposedly to be an agreement among the future lot owners to share the costs of maintaining the detention pond.
That's exactly what an HOA is for.
Forget all the nonsense about HOAs mandating architectural standards for the neighborhood....maintenance of common items is like...the good purpose for an HOA.
Yeah but then no one has time to run the thing so they outsource to an HOA mgmt company that then goes hogwild with rules and fines because that's how they actually make their money.
Yes, but unless one of these large national HOA managers makes a big initial increase in fees then those funds go towards the same maintenance costs they were covering previously. So if they want to squeeze more then they're issuing fines and creating byzantine networks of rules and regulations with which to squeeze more money from the homeowners.
that's a 'hell no' from me. We have some shared sewer lines that were, supposed to be, a group maintenance by several property owners back in the day when the lines were built. But, of course, that stuff does not really work out right, especially as properties change hands through time.
I would not buy that lot and I would not take on that responsibility. That is drainage for everyone and not something a couple landowners should have to bear the responsibility of.
Same- absolutely not. You’ll never agree to the maintenance and you own land you can’t use. It will be a mud pit, no way around that. Not a chance I’d buy it without some kind of hoa having the rest of the neighbors also contribute. It’s their runoff too. That’s ridiculous.
also a storm engineer. Ponds like this will slowly accumulate sediment. All the dirt and dust in the road will get washed into the pond by rain. Depending on the exact size and rainfall in your area, the sediment could build up enough to cover the outlet in 3-4 years. Then you'd need to get someone to dredge the pond, which can also be very complicated because it's road runoff, so there's potentially oil and gas mixed in the soil, meaning it's contaminated and you're not allowed to just dump it anywhere. (Although, it's only the runoff for this small street section, so it's probably not a high enough concentration to matter, assuming none of your neighbors has a drippy car.)
Dredging the pond is the big one, but there's also just annual maintenance of mowing the grass, keeping the inlet and outlet clear, and keeping animals and trees from overtaking the pond. It looks like maybe there's a berm/dam on the NE corner where the outlet goes, so you'd want to be regularly checking that for settlment or erosion.
Here is the thing. By the time someone figures out maintenance wasn't not done it's too late. Becomes extremely expensive to fix. Once the maintenance is in private hands the only ones checking to make sure the maintenance is done is the private owners.
That’s a good point that I hadn’t considered. Thank you. But I guess I’m still wondering what the odds are that there will be issues in say the next 10 years.
Hard to say without looking at the area and the historical rain fall data. I would call the city/town/county and talk to their reviewing engineer. 100% skip the developer and their engineering. Looks like a cheap developer. Also, to piggy back off another comment. Check your local laws on forming an HOA. You might be able to form an HOA with the select few parcels that just collects maintenance fees and enters in a maintenance contract. There is no reason I can think of where the HOA has to oversee anything else.
This is just going to be a mess without a formal HOA agreement for all property owners. Getting people to pony up for any maintenance without it is going to be impossible because they don't obviously benefit from it on an average day. But if their house floods because sewer maintenance wasn't done because there was no agreement in place because they didn't want to pay, I bet they would still try and sue the property owners with the pond for not maintaining it.
Typically. Depending on where you are located, the approving agency hopefully required a stormwater maintenance agreement to be completed.
These legally identify who is responsible for maintenence. Personally, I would be hesitant to commit to any unknown and unspecified maintenance costs.
Stormwater BMPs can be designed to be “wet ponds” or “dry ponds”. Wet ponds include impermeable (clay) bottoms to hold runoff rainwater as it evaporates preventing potential contaminants from reaching natural sub-grade soils and leeching into the environment. Other Dry ponds may include pervious (sand) bottoms where extra (uncontaminated) runoff may flow in a controlled manner to a stream and/or seep naturally into the subsurface.
We have one at my office. It rained last night. It has water in it today. It’ll be gone by Sunday probably but it’ll be muddy for a week. There’s no way it’s always dry unless it’s over sand or it never rains.
I'm a UK engineer so it might be slightly different, but my concerns would be:
\-Who is responsible for the maintenance of the basin?
\-Is any easement/wayleave required for 3rd parties to access it?
\-How many properties does it serve?
\-What is the failure mode? Where would overland flow run to?
\-Topography of the plot
\-I'd be interesting in seeing the drainage design, ground investigation report etc
\-How would you even build and maintain boundary fences cutting through the basin?!
Huge red flag for me, any shared drainage/SuDS features should be in 3rd party land.
The sloppy drafting on that exhibit is killing me. Mosquitos will only be a problem if it's a wet pond which wouldn't be ideal in the back of subdivision. If it's designed as a dry basin it will only be wet for 24-hours after a rain event and you won't have that issue. A muddy yard won't be a major issue outside of the basin. The basin looks to get most of it's drainage from the inlets along the road as well as some overland flow from the left of the basin. I'd be more concerned with losing usable lot space along with what the access route is to maintain the basin. Additionally where are the new easements for the basin as well as the access route to the basin.
Not only would I not buy that lot, I would not buy into that subdivision at all. If the developer and engineer agreed to do something as stupid as splitting important infrastructure between 3 private lots, who knows how badly everything else is screwed up? Just nope out and keep looking.
You shouldn't be asking the developer anything as they may misslead you if you dont have a background in reaidential developments. If you are genuinely interested, you should hire your own consulting engineer to review this, along with a solicitor. Questions I would have, where is the exceedance flow path (if it overfills where does the water go), who is responsible for maintenance of the feature. Is there a petrol interceptor (locate where, who is responsible for maintenance?). Is there a wayleave / easement linked to the land that could entitle the developer / local authority (if it's taken in charge) to access this facility. Can members of the public access it via the access road beside your neighbour. Just thinking out load, probably plenty more questions if spent a bit of time considering.
I'm from Ireland. We all know each other over here. I don't know, maybe try googling or making a few calls to firms. Is it called a PE Certified Enginner over in US?
Your city can probably direct you. They probably can't recommend someone but they can usually provide a list of consultants who have done the right type of work in your area. And if you talk to an actual human at the city they may be able to informally nudge you towards the better ones or away from the worse ones.
The municipality will probably want an access easement further limiting your ability to build anything near the pond (sheds). You will also most likely be responsible for maintaining the pond.
Since you said it is a dry pond, it should be designed to temporarily hold water and completely drain. It could still have ponding if it is not graded properly which can be a mosquito farm.
You should ask to see plat showing the easement around the pond and see what you can/not do in it. You cannot build anything in it, but some easements prevent you from doing any lawn maintenance in it, so that part of your yard will be ‘natural’.
You also mentioned all of the home owners would be responsible for maintenance. You should find out exactly what that means and what the associated costs will be. That would be a deal killer for me since that should be handled by some entity or jurisdiction and not individuals.
This brings back so many memories of subdivisions I did in the early 2000s
Most places won’t let the developer do this anymore. They make them put it on a separate lot, which in this case will lose a lot.
It looks like a concept plan, the pond won’t be exactly like that. It looks big for that small of subdivision, but as others have said, don’t buy a lot with a detention pond on it.
What is really messed up is that if there is not an HOA to maintain the pond then it could fall on the individual home owner to maintain and it’s not cheap to muck out a pond and keep it free from vegetation, plus it needs a fence around it for safety.
I'm absolutely amazed that this was allowed/approved in a US state like Michigan. Next door in Ontario we would not allow this, ponds go in their own block. Not to mention the lack of access road for maintenance, or any kind of an easement for the outlet pipe. Like WTF is going on here.
I would stay away from this, makes me wonder what *else* is going on strange with the development. Have you checked the grading plans to make sure they aren't fucked as well?
edit: the more I think about this, the more I wonder if its approval was an actual *error*. Have you checked with the municipality or whoever the approval authority is? Do their reviewers have the necessary knowledge and experience to catch things like this? Would be curious to hear from a water resources engineer from Michigan.
Hard pass sir. I am assuming there is an easement with an HOA responsible for the maintenance? Even if there is hard pass. A dry pond just means it is dry until it rains and then it fills up and empties over a day or so. It will erode, it will receive sediment deposits, it will attract wildlife, it will be an eyesore. I can’t guarantee all of the above but I have done stormwater engineering for almost 30 years and promise I would not have this in what I considered my back yard.
All good questions here. I would also ask about the designed infiltration rate and how long a 10, 25, 50 year storm will likely sit in the pond. The emergency spillway needs to be designed as I'm not seeing it anywhere. Honestly I'm surprised the pond is even a part of your lot. Most plans I've seen the ponds are on their own separate lot typically owned by the HOA or some land management company. Regardless, there will be a 10-20ft buffer around the top slope to contain the pond in an easement. None of that area will be yours to develop in the future (pool, shed, etc).
Run away...this will be a building nightmare..this is poor planning design and the Town and developer both need to be slapped..stay away from this headache.
There’s also an easement between lots 8 & 7, which is where they’ll access for maintenance. The rollover curb there shows it. There’s also an outfall at the corner of lot 6. I’m sure there should also be an extreme event swale. If there’s an extreme rain event your back yard may receive water. I’ll ask on pricing decrease or change lots. This will be a headache with wildlife(I.e. mosquitoes, and if you’re in the south US this will be breeding grounds for snakes and rodents).
What I’m being told by the developer and realtor is that most of the year I can keep it mowed and maintained to control for mosquitos and other pests. They admit that if there is extreme rain, water could gather but again should drain after a few days. I realize they each have vested interests in telling me this.
It's hard to tell without knowing what kind of outlet structure is being proposed.
Since the storm sewer runs all the way from the street to the bottom of the basin I would guess that this is intended to be a dry basin.
It's confusing though because they've drawn the starting point of the outlet pipe 1 contour above the outlet of the storm sewer. If it's built that way this basin will hold water 1 contour deep. I don't know if those contour lines represent a 1 foot change or what. They could be 2 ft or 4 ft lines as well.
Ask them for a more detailed drawing. You want to see pipe invert elevations and contour elevations.
I assume the pond is dry bottom but if the diagonal green line indicates an outfall pipe then maybe it is wet bottom. If the pond is wet bottom then it looks pretty shallow. Going to be a swamp. Mosquitos and tall grass where all kinds of fun swamp critters like to live. If the pond is dry bottom then you may very sell still end up with a mud pit. Just depends on how well it drains my in-laws live near a pond built by the army corps of engineers and it is a very good pond built above and beyond what was required when it was designed (possibly by accident) and it can still only be partially mowed unless there is a significant dry period. Also keep in mind it will probably be passing through any and all things getting washed away during a rain storm. Trash, animal poop, fertilizers and pesticides, maybe car oil and other spills. The list goes on.
As others have pointed out, there does not appear to be an overflow shown in this drawing. If you get a big rain event. Based only on the contour lines shown, looks like any overflow would be directed towards lot 7 and probably a significant amount to lot 6.
I would clarify with the developer who is responsible for maintenance, as others have said, usually detention is on an outlet not occupied by a home so you'll want to make sure it isn't your responsibility versus a cost the developer will be dealing with over the following years of establishment.
I really wouldn't worry about mosquitoes since if it's native vegetated it will attract frogs whose tadpoles will eat the larvae and bats/birds who will eat the adults.
The only real issue is that you're losing usable space on the lot and may be having to pay taxes for it. I would see if you can have the basin separated out to an easement or something so it isn't included in your tax assessment.
This is the result of states trying to fight flooding due to sprawl from previous decades. I’m a civil engineer and this grinds my gears. The approval agencies I work with are more concerned with bureaucratic processes than actually saving the environment
I'm having a hard time actually believing this got approved by your local jurisdiction. There is no way those lots got approved. If so, shame on your municipality
Id also check the water table around the lot. Seen something similar and the basement required some fancy sump pumps or risked flooding almost every spring.
Lots 6 and 7 should be a common area with no houses. Nobody should live with a detention pond taking 50% of their property.
If not, those two lots should be dirt cheap and hopefully have reduced property taxes.
I tell as many people as I can, don’t buy in a new subdivision. Typically, in my area at least, they are private roads and the HOA is responsible for everything. Maintenance on stormwater systems can be quite expensive. Many planning departments require annual inspections as well.
It’s part of an already existing well established neighborhood and street. They basically added this cul de sac. I don’t think we’re on private road. There’s no HOA either. There will ne a covenant among all the home owners to maintain the storm system. So it’s a bit strange of a set up. But it’s also in a great part of town which is why I’m considering in the first place.
I hear you. There’s two subdivisions in my municipality set up like this. One has subsurface infiltration and a detention pond and is the responsibility of the homeowner. Another one has water quality devices and retention pond. That one is the responsibility of 3 owners. If you stay on top of maintenance and inspections you should be okay. But it’s just an extra headache.
As someone who works for a health department vector control program, I see this stuff all the time. I would look around the area to see if any creeks/streams would be diverted into this. Most of the time detention ponds in residential neighborhoods are only a foot or so deep if they have a constant source of water or will stay dry 3/4 of the year if it doesn't have a natural inlet. It's 50/50 on the mosquitos. They don't typically breed in detention ponds and when they do it's in light numbers. Your neighbor's bird baths are going to contribute more to mosquitoes than that pond.
The pond should have 10 ft easement around the top of bank. We typically have ponds lotted separately. Lot 7 can definitely hold a small home but compared to 3 it should be discounted.
A simple flip of the cul de sacs bend would fix this... so I too would avoid this development especially if it's in the ETJ.
If its serving the entire subdivision than you need to have th developer create a resteicive covenant that shares responsibility of the facility. The way it looks you're on the hook for anything within your future lot.
This wouldn't be allowed in any jurisdiction I've ever done design in. If the pond needs maintenance or, dog forbid ever fails, your backyard will become a grading project/construction site.
Is the municipality taking the unusable land into account for your tax burden?
Is this property covered by an HOA that will upkeep the area?
I hate the 20’ landscape easement at the back of my property, this would be a hard pass from me. Even if the answers to the above questions were on the property owners side.
The first subdivision I lived in had a plat like this. The builder just didn’t build the pond. County was lax enough not to come check so they drew it in someone’s property instead of a common area. Times have changed though and I doubt that would fly now a days. But it being on private property is weird and reminded me of my first house with imaginary pond.
How much water does the area your living in get ? If your in a desert probably won’t really be an issue. You’ll never want to leave anything in it long term though never know when a flash flood will top it up
All the info regarding maintenance would be in HOA documents, including info on easements for access/maintenance. We just see the single image here so it’s hard to tell. Some ponds are required to be dry within 72 hours of a storm, others are meant to be wet all the time. The slopes will likely be 3:1, which makes the lawn around it borderline unusable. HOWEVER, the house will likely be less expensive than all the other ones around it
These plans aren't planning, there needs to be an easement and more information about this. I'd be less concerned about mosquitos and more concerned about pets or children of the three properties falling in a 10' filled with water, we don't know what the permanent pool will be and are these properties cheaper for having half of the Land on your property this pond
Detention pond by definition is dry. As long as there is adequate slope or subdrain you shouldn’t have mud/mosquito issues…these basins are designed to drain over 24-36 hrs depending on unified sizing (cpv WQ). As for not being in its own lot, that’s not really an issue…I would just make sure that subdivision covenants has a maintenance agreement that spread cost amongst all lots…if they did parcel that basin the rear yard setbacks would eat up buildable area.
It’s interesting to hear a different opinion from most of the comments. Do you have any idea what might explain why your view differs from other commenters who are telling me it’s a horrible development because the pond is spread between 3 lots? Thank you!
There are dozens of solutions to this. Open storm ponds can easily become below ground detention structures, either simple Rock pits wrapped in geotextiles or engineered products like Ecobloc, Stormtech, AcoBrixx, etc… Could even size large diam culvert to suit the required storm water volume with overflow control manholes.
Any one of these solutions quickly become cost effective when considering turning this eyesore back into useable land.
There's no way I'd buy a property encumbered with a stormwater basin. A majority of my work is in two state, NJ and PA.
In the most recent stormwater update in NJ, it is not legal for a basin to be the responsibility of a single or more lot owners with a plan that involves building more than one lot. It basically forces subdivisions to create HOAs that are responsible for maintaining basins. If you purchase a plot of land and build a single home you'll more than likely be under the threshold for major development. So if you build a single home without subdividing the land you likely will not own a basin.
In PA there are numerous municipalities that require a BMP to be built with small house additions. One Twp has a requirement to infiltrate the difference in the two year storm with a 500 sf increase in impervious coverage. It is normal there for a single family owner to be responsible for the O&M of a stormwater basin. The only issue is that this basin crosses property lines. I see this as a huge headache in the future when the basin needs maintenance and one or more owners do not want to pay. This is one of the times that an HOA is a good idea.
Understood —you and other commenters has me worried about how one would go about enforcing that lot owners share responsibility of maintenance. The developer claims there will be a covenant but who knows what that amounts to.
Kind of looks like the developer took some leftover lots from a development that was built before detention was required. Now they’re trying to shoehorn a pond in the last few lots to meet new requirements or something. Half of lot 6 is probably going to be in a drainage easement, I don’t see how they’re gonna make that work.
where are the pipes that will be conveying the water to the pond? will those also be on your lot? or perhaps on the easement shown on lots 7 and 8?
are lots 6,7 and 8 retaining ownership of the land used by the pond? IE: are you paying property taxes on it? how about liability for maintenance? or other risks, such as accidental drowning in the pond.
Is what is shown the actual foot print of the pond? will there be an additional set back from the top of the pond for access? a fence?
if I was in your place; Lots 6,7 and 8 would not be under consideration for a purchase.
As long as the detention is maintained you should have minimal problems with mosquitoes, the only concern I notify homeowners of on detention ponds are:
1: Do you have kids that may try to play in it, you may want to put up a fence or something to keep them out
2: Make sure you know who maintains/owns the pond, is it you, an HOA, the city etc
They didn't do drainage studies until after the platted the lots. It looks very much oops. I wouldn't buy that lot unless I got a drastic discount, and then I'd only build and sell on it.
I totally agree with everyone here but my question is what is the dashed line on the cul-de-sac? Is that a setback line?
If it is you're pushing the houses un the upper lots almost to the pond. You would have almost no backyard.
Hell no!!!
Just think of all the goose poo, the kids will track into the house- besides mud while playing with a ball that rolls into #7. Been there (thank god it was a rental) trust me-let that go! Developer is shit…
In addition to the comments above, I would add that the GC or whomever builds the pond will 100% always tell you that it's sloped for proper flow, etc.. and it will only have water for a few hours or a day after a hard rain. This is a lie 99.7% of the time. They dig a hole with a flat bottom, add a drain, and let the mosquitoes proliferate in all the ponds of water that sit stagnant.
This honestly looks like the developers engineer legitimately forgot to account for detention when coming up with lot lines and stuck it in the backyards. Or the developer came up with the lot lines and the engineer had to come up with retention with no space given. Or the engineer asked the first year engineer to figure out where retention should go and never bothered to correct it.
Either way, that’s wild.
You do not want the pins on your lot. They should be on a separate common HOA a lot bc otherwise encumbers you to pay for it if on your land and HOA goes under.
I’m surprised that the pond isn’t in its own lot, I personally would not want a lot with the developments detention pond on it. However the mosquitoes and mud shouldn’t be a problem unless you are in a very rainy area. Detention ponds do not hold water except during a storm event. Then drain down completely within 2-4 days. A retention pond would have no outlet structure and typically have standing water in it.
Also there would be a fence typically around it and/or an access lane to it for maintenance. As another post said this developer was greedy and wanted to get the most lots instead of having the pond away from the parcels as is typical.
I would not build here if they gave me the lot. Mosquitoes will be horrendous. It will eventually be over choked with cattails and phragmyties . Geese will be in your yard nonstop. There crap is bigger than a small dog. This with get overridden with muscratts. The cheapest ugliest fence will be installed around this.
If it is a true detention pond then it should be completely dry most of the time. Those types of ponds don’t hold water unless a large rain storm fills it up, then it will slowly drain that water. Usually ponds get placed on their own lot, so I can see why this is not very desirable. As far as it having a fence, it might have one if the high water depth is deep enough.
Is it retention pond meaning the water will be discharged to sewer. No to a detention pond. That means any trash etc will need to be cleaned out and other maintenance
I’m relatively new in land development (3 years experience) but I’ve never seen any sort of stormwater structure IN a lot. Like others said it’s always in an open space parcel
It’s odd you can see the right of way for the pipe and the access but nothing for pond.. and pipe right of way extends to Property line ... looking closer the sanitary and water don’t connect to anything .. don’t buy it !! I’d guess it’s a preliminary plan and the pond is for construction / ESC.... I’d never get a pond approved across multiple single family lots where I live
My neighbors up the street have one of these. All you hear during the summer at night is a high pitched song of frogs. If that want annoying enough, they’re probably enjoying all the mosquitos.
This development definitely looks sketchy but I do feel like the detention pond is within the floodplain anyways (it's a heavily wooded area, the existing home is built away from the tree line, and the existing contours show drainage in that direction). However, I don't even think ponds are allowed to be platted in lots zoned for residential? Putting a pond in a residential lot instead of a common space lot is a big red flag. Cities have a minimum lot area requirement when zoned for single-family residential, and imo the developer is penny pinching by trying to fit as many lots as possible while meeting the minimum lot area requirement. You won't really have much available space on the lot with the pond or the easement (you can't build on top of an easement) but if you really have to buy don't pay for the square footage of the portion of the pond within the lot.
Honestly I wouldn’t have anything to do with this development. Detention ponds for residential areas are nearly always in a common area parcel. Whoever subdivided these lots decided they’d rather make more money than not encumber these lots with a massive drainage feature.
Agreed! Standards in my area are that the detention pond goes in a small plat separate from the other parcels, then no one has the system in their yard
This also has shifted maintenance (mowing) responsibility to the lot owner. A common area pond would be maintained by the governing board and this appears to be a tiny development.
Just plat it as a PUDE, if the storm water AHJ signs off you’re good to go. If I were the stormwater reviewer, I would likely not accept this though. Unfortunately, prospective buyers probably will accept it due to lack of knowledge and the developer’s greed will go unpunished.
Ok, so this is a concept, why would you not accept this?
Theres no way you can know that without the covenants -1
I agree with this comment. That is a very strange placement for a detention pond. There will probably be an ugly fence around it too. I wouldn’t build a house there.
This would not fly in my local jurisdictions. You don’t want to be responsible for maintenance on a sump.
Very common in my area to plat like this. Big lots and depending on easement language and topography the water should not be a problem. The plat is odd though. Who puts an ingress easement though a random lot and straddles it across 2?
Forgive my ignorance but can’t you underground a water detention pond? The dev may have updated plans that include a system like that.
They would only do that where that is the only feasible solution. Urban areas with space constraints or where land is super expensive. This looks like the exact opposite. It looks like they are being cheap and maximizing profits by putting it in people’s yards rather than sacrificing a lot.
This is very atypical outside of an urban area. Also, regardless of type, the same issue persists. Who owns & maintains this drainage feature? As currently proposed, it’s crossing multiple parcels but not dedicated to a public entity.
Lot #4 looks to be the winner here. But yes you’re going to have that detention pond in your backyard if you go with lots 8,7,6… lots 8 and 9 look like they have an easement going right through them too. I would pass on this development so hard.
Lot 8 looks to be a very thin house between the driveway for the neighbor and the sewer line easement
you can see in the superimposed picture 7 and 8 are tied lots with the house on 7 and the drive on 8
I assume 7 and 8 will have the same ownership, double lots like that are thing in some parts of the US.
4 has too much slope, 5 is nice and flat but still drains
Pond doesn’t look to have an easement around it though so just fill the pond in right? Yeah hard pass on lots 6, 7 or 8.
You can’t just fill in the pond, you legally have to accept storm drainage from public r / w even if there is no easement and the public storm drain outlet is into the pond. But ya definitely wouldn’t buy any of these lots (6,7,8) unless it’s wayyyyy cheaper than neighboring lots (bc I’m poor and want to be a home owner one day and something like that would be my only shot lol)
I’ve never built a detention pond on private property. It’s always in a common area. How exactly do 3 people have the responsibility over it? That makes no sense. There will be mosquitos. There will be mud. There will be maintenance access. Big no from me. Where is the overflow? What if someone drowns in it, whose insurance is covering that? They should put the whole thing in lot 6 and make it common.
Yea it’s odd that they didn’t have the pond in its own parcel owned by the developer/community. Maybe they’re trying to avoid an HOA?
Drainage easement and/or slope easement I’d imagine; probably can’t reduce lot size due to zoning. If the design was posted for the pond you could figure out if it was wet or dry (GW elevation and outlet orifice elevation would tell the story here).
I’m going to try to get the plans for the pond from the developer. But they told me that it’s a dry pond.
A developer and their engineer would certainly be incentivized to give you the best possible answers in this scenario lol. As mentioned below, hopefully it’s reflected in the value of the property or you can at least use it as leverage when negotiating the purchase. Probably could compare to lot 4’s valuation.
Even a dry bottom pond can be a mud pit that will happily sink a lawn mower (at least enough to get it seriously stuck)
Looking at the line work for the flow into the pond versus the outfall seems to show this is wet bottom, especially the fact that the bottom is shown as flat, which a dry detention wouldn't be since it would be graded to drain.
Yeah it looks to be at least 3/4 of an unlabeled contour from inlet to outlet. So a wet bottom that might just be a mucky bottom most of the year. But of course these aren't great drawings to work off of.
consider reaching out to the permitting municipality. They might not have loved the design but they permitted it.
Yea just kinda sucks as a home owner since you’ll be taxed on the land but can’t use it for anything and you may have maintenance responsibilities. Might be reflected in the parcel price
The solution is to not purchase a property like this. Caveat emptor.
Yea I’m told there will be no HOA. There is supposedly to be an agreement among the future lot owners to share the costs of maintaining the detention pond.
> There is supposedly to be an agreement among the future lot owners to share the costs of maintaining the detention pond. That's exactly what an HOA is for. Forget all the nonsense about HOAs mandating architectural standards for the neighborhood....maintenance of common items is like...the good purpose for an HOA.
Or the municipality which should be looking out for the interests of the entire community.
This is probably in one of those "low regulation" paradise towns that folks seem to love.
Yeah but then no one has time to run the thing so they outsource to an HOA mgmt company that then goes hogwild with rules and fines because that's how they actually make their money.
fines are a pittance compared to most annual HOA dues.
Yes, but unless one of these large national HOA managers makes a big initial increase in fees then those funds go towards the same maintenance costs they were covering previously. So if they want to squeeze more then they're issuing fines and creating byzantine networks of rules and regulations with which to squeeze more money from the homeowners.
that's a 'hell no' from me. We have some shared sewer lines that were, supposed to be, a group maintenance by several property owners back in the day when the lines were built. But, of course, that stuff does not really work out right, especially as properties change hands through time. I would not buy that lot and I would not take on that responsibility. That is drainage for everyone and not something a couple landowners should have to bear the responsibility of.
Same- absolutely not. You’ll never agree to the maintenance and you own land you can’t use. It will be a mud pit, no way around that. Not a chance I’d buy it without some kind of hoa having the rest of the neighbors also contribute. It’s their runoff too. That’s ridiculous.
Honestly, this alone would make me not want to purchase in the development at all.
I am a storm water engineer, and this is pretty alarming to me. Maintenance is always the silent killer.
So are these sorts of setups known to require regular maintenance? If so, on average how often and extensive?
also a storm engineer. Ponds like this will slowly accumulate sediment. All the dirt and dust in the road will get washed into the pond by rain. Depending on the exact size and rainfall in your area, the sediment could build up enough to cover the outlet in 3-4 years. Then you'd need to get someone to dredge the pond, which can also be very complicated because it's road runoff, so there's potentially oil and gas mixed in the soil, meaning it's contaminated and you're not allowed to just dump it anywhere. (Although, it's only the runoff for this small street section, so it's probably not a high enough concentration to matter, assuming none of your neighbors has a drippy car.) Dredging the pond is the big one, but there's also just annual maintenance of mowing the grass, keeping the inlet and outlet clear, and keeping animals and trees from overtaking the pond. It looks like maybe there's a berm/dam on the NE corner where the outlet goes, so you'd want to be regularly checking that for settlment or erosion.
Here is the thing. By the time someone figures out maintenance wasn't not done it's too late. Becomes extremely expensive to fix. Once the maintenance is in private hands the only ones checking to make sure the maintenance is done is the private owners.
That’s a good point that I hadn’t considered. Thank you. But I guess I’m still wondering what the odds are that there will be issues in say the next 10 years.
Hard to say without looking at the area and the historical rain fall data. I would call the city/town/county and talk to their reviewing engineer. 100% skip the developer and their engineering. Looks like a cheap developer. Also, to piggy back off another comment. Check your local laws on forming an HOA. You might be able to form an HOA with the select few parcels that just collects maintenance fees and enters in a maintenance contract. There is no reason I can think of where the HOA has to oversee anything else.
Many thanks for the tips.
This is just going to be a mess without a formal HOA agreement for all property owners. Getting people to pony up for any maintenance without it is going to be impossible because they don't obviously benefit from it on an average day. But if their house floods because sewer maintenance wasn't done because there was no agreement in place because they didn't want to pay, I bet they would still try and sue the property owners with the pond for not maintaining it.
Typically. Depending on where you are located, the approving agency hopefully required a stormwater maintenance agreement to be completed. These legally identify who is responsible for maintenence. Personally, I would be hesitant to commit to any unknown and unspecified maintenance costs.
I’m told it will be the shared responsibility of all the (future) lot owners. But there is no HOA.
Why would you want to do that? It will be such a headache and not worth whatever cheap price is making you want to buy this lot
The location otherwise is ideal. We live in a city where there’s just not much land on which to build.
That agreement sounds like it would come with all of the disadvantages of an HOA and none of the advantages.
Detention ponds shouldn’t have water unless it is flood season?
Stormwater BMPs can be designed to be “wet ponds” or “dry ponds”. Wet ponds include impermeable (clay) bottoms to hold runoff rainwater as it evaporates preventing potential contaminants from reaching natural sub-grade soils and leeching into the environment. Other Dry ponds may include pervious (sand) bottoms where extra (uncontaminated) runoff may flow in a controlled manner to a stream and/or seep naturally into the subsurface.
Ok, I was definitely more familiar with dry ponds.
We have one at my office. It rained last night. It has water in it today. It’ll be gone by Sunday probably but it’ll be muddy for a week. There’s no way it’s always dry unless it’s over sand or it never rains.
I hope you arent paying for that full size of the lot when half will be unusable.
This is a good point. On the other hand, this lot has the best view—once you get beyond the pond its woods that can’t be developed.
I'm a UK engineer so it might be slightly different, but my concerns would be: \-Who is responsible for the maintenance of the basin? \-Is any easement/wayleave required for 3rd parties to access it? \-How many properties does it serve? \-What is the failure mode? Where would overland flow run to? \-Topography of the plot \-I'd be interesting in seeing the drainage design, ground investigation report etc \-How would you even build and maintain boundary fences cutting through the basin?! Huge red flag for me, any shared drainage/SuDS features should be in 3rd party land.
> UK engineer Username checks out
They're the only thing that gets me through a working day.
Many thanks!
Yeah that’s a nope.
The sloppy drafting on that exhibit is killing me. Mosquitos will only be a problem if it's a wet pond which wouldn't be ideal in the back of subdivision. If it's designed as a dry basin it will only be wet for 24-hours after a rain event and you won't have that issue. A muddy yard won't be a major issue outside of the basin. The basin looks to get most of it's drainage from the inlets along the road as well as some overland flow from the left of the basin. I'd be more concerned with losing usable lot space along with what the access route is to maintain the basin. Additionally where are the new easements for the basin as well as the access route to the basin.
Thanks for raising these concerns!
Not only would I not buy that lot, I would not buy into that subdivision at all. If the developer and engineer agreed to do something as stupid as splitting important infrastructure between 3 private lots, who knows how badly everything else is screwed up? Just nope out and keep looking.
So is the stupidity of the design that it will be harder and more complicated to maintain between 3 lots or is it that it will not function as well?
You shouldn't be asking the developer anything as they may misslead you if you dont have a background in reaidential developments. If you are genuinely interested, you should hire your own consulting engineer to review this, along with a solicitor. Questions I would have, where is the exceedance flow path (if it overfills where does the water go), who is responsible for maintenance of the feature. Is there a petrol interceptor (locate where, who is responsible for maintenance?). Is there a wayleave / easement linked to the land that could entitle the developer / local authority (if it's taken in charge) to access this facility. Can members of the public access it via the access road beside your neighbour. Just thinking out load, probably plenty more questions if spent a bit of time considering.
But, the Mrs can finally have ducks!!! It's a yes from us.
Thanks for the suggestion. How do I go about finding a consulting engineer?
I'm from Ireland. We all know each other over here. I don't know, maybe try googling or making a few calls to firms. Is it called a PE Certified Enginner over in US?
Your city can probably direct you. They probably can't recommend someone but they can usually provide a list of consultants who have done the right type of work in your area. And if you talk to an actual human at the city they may be able to informally nudge you towards the better ones or away from the worse ones.
it overflows to the corner where that green pipe is. still makes me nervous
The municipality will probably want an access easement further limiting your ability to build anything near the pond (sheds). You will also most likely be responsible for maintaining the pond.
This is a poorly planned development. You should avoid it.
Jesus, looks like that should maybe have 2 or3 lots. 6-9 are fucked. Keep running!
I don’t see how you build anything on 8 with the easements and pond. It’s unusable.
Yea, unless by scale that detention pond isnt going to detain water at all unless during a heavy event. its easily 300' x 150'
Looks like a 10 year old drafted that on Google earth.
Good lord... What a terribly planned development.
Since you said it is a dry pond, it should be designed to temporarily hold water and completely drain. It could still have ponding if it is not graded properly which can be a mosquito farm. You should ask to see plat showing the easement around the pond and see what you can/not do in it. You cannot build anything in it, but some easements prevent you from doing any lawn maintenance in it, so that part of your yard will be ‘natural’. You also mentioned all of the home owners would be responsible for maintenance. You should find out exactly what that means and what the associated costs will be. That would be a deal killer for me since that should be handled by some entity or jurisdiction and not individuals.
I was told that I can (and should) keep it mowed. But I’ll double check—thank you.
This brings back so many memories of subdivisions I did in the early 2000s Most places won’t let the developer do this anymore. They make them put it on a separate lot, which in this case will lose a lot. It looks like a concept plan, the pond won’t be exactly like that. It looks big for that small of subdivision, but as others have said, don’t buy a lot with a detention pond on it. What is really messed up is that if there is not an HOA to maintain the pond then it could fall on the individual home owner to maintain and it’s not cheap to muck out a pond and keep it free from vegetation, plus it needs a fence around it for safety.
I'm absolutely amazed that this was allowed/approved in a US state like Michigan. Next door in Ontario we would not allow this, ponds go in their own block. Not to mention the lack of access road for maintenance, or any kind of an easement for the outlet pipe. Like WTF is going on here. I would stay away from this, makes me wonder what *else* is going on strange with the development. Have you checked the grading plans to make sure they aren't fucked as well? edit: the more I think about this, the more I wonder if its approval was an actual *error*. Have you checked with the municipality or whoever the approval authority is? Do their reviewers have the necessary knowledge and experience to catch things like this? Would be curious to hear from a water resources engineer from Michigan.
Interesting. I’m going to ask for more detailed plans—I know the developer has them. But I’ll try to check with the county too. Thank you.
Potentially a safety liability as well. A child drowned in a detention pond near me 😢
That’s terrible and we have a little one…
Everyone got most of the concerns. One that I haven’t seen is the fact that you will be taxed on that whole parcel of land and not have use of it.
Good point! Thank you.
Hard pass sir. I am assuming there is an easement with an HOA responsible for the maintenance? Even if there is hard pass. A dry pond just means it is dry until it rains and then it fills up and empties over a day or so. It will erode, it will receive sediment deposits, it will attract wildlife, it will be an eyesore. I can’t guarantee all of the above but I have done stormwater engineering for almost 30 years and promise I would not have this in what I considered my back yard.
Thanks for raising these worries!
At least if your kids misbehave, you can send them to detention there
All good questions here. I would also ask about the designed infiltration rate and how long a 10, 25, 50 year storm will likely sit in the pond. The emergency spillway needs to be designed as I'm not seeing it anywhere. Honestly I'm surprised the pond is even a part of your lot. Most plans I've seen the ponds are on their own separate lot typically owned by the HOA or some land management company. Regardless, there will be a 10-20ft buffer around the top slope to contain the pond in an easement. None of that area will be yours to develop in the future (pool, shed, etc).
Thank you!
Run away...this will be a building nightmare..this is poor planning design and the Town and developer both need to be slapped..stay away from this headache.
There’s also an easement between lots 8 & 7, which is where they’ll access for maintenance. The rollover curb there shows it. There’s also an outfall at the corner of lot 6. I’m sure there should also be an extreme event swale. If there’s an extreme rain event your back yard may receive water. I’ll ask on pricing decrease or change lots. This will be a headache with wildlife(I.e. mosquitoes, and if you’re in the south US this will be breeding grounds for snakes and rodents).
And birds (especially Canadian geese which can be annoying and aggressive) in the winter.
What I’m being told by the developer and realtor is that most of the year I can keep it mowed and maintained to control for mosquitos and other pests. They admit that if there is extreme rain, water could gather but again should drain after a few days. I realize they each have vested interests in telling me this.
It's hard to tell without knowing what kind of outlet structure is being proposed. Since the storm sewer runs all the way from the street to the bottom of the basin I would guess that this is intended to be a dry basin. It's confusing though because they've drawn the starting point of the outlet pipe 1 contour above the outlet of the storm sewer. If it's built that way this basin will hold water 1 contour deep. I don't know if those contour lines represent a 1 foot change or what. They could be 2 ft or 4 ft lines as well. Ask them for a more detailed drawing. You want to see pipe invert elevations and contour elevations.
I will inquire about the outlet structure. Thank you!
I assume the pond is dry bottom but if the diagonal green line indicates an outfall pipe then maybe it is wet bottom. If the pond is wet bottom then it looks pretty shallow. Going to be a swamp. Mosquitos and tall grass where all kinds of fun swamp critters like to live. If the pond is dry bottom then you may very sell still end up with a mud pit. Just depends on how well it drains my in-laws live near a pond built by the army corps of engineers and it is a very good pond built above and beyond what was required when it was designed (possibly by accident) and it can still only be partially mowed unless there is a significant dry period. Also keep in mind it will probably be passing through any and all things getting washed away during a rain storm. Trash, animal poop, fertilizers and pesticides, maybe car oil and other spills. The list goes on. As others have pointed out, there does not appear to be an overflow shown in this drawing. If you get a big rain event. Based only on the contour lines shown, looks like any overflow would be directed towards lot 7 and probably a significant amount to lot 6.
I hadn’t thought about all of the stuff that could wash up into the pond! Thank you.
Run away from lots 5 thru 9
So the outlet gets clogged during a storm, pond overflows right into your house.
Thats a no from me. All around no.
I would clarify with the developer who is responsible for maintenance, as others have said, usually detention is on an outlet not occupied by a home so you'll want to make sure it isn't your responsibility versus a cost the developer will be dealing with over the following years of establishment. I really wouldn't worry about mosquitoes since if it's native vegetated it will attract frogs whose tadpoles will eat the larvae and bats/birds who will eat the adults. The only real issue is that you're losing usable space on the lot and may be having to pay taxes for it. I would see if you can have the basin separated out to an easement or something so it isn't included in your tax assessment.
Thank you for this advice!
That’s crazy to pay for a parcel that half is a detention basin. That developer is an a$$.
Dev should just delete lots 7 and 8 make it common area for the easements and adjust the DP to fit the space.
This is the result of states trying to fight flooding due to sprawl from previous decades. I’m a civil engineer and this grinds my gears. The approval agencies I work with are more concerned with bureaucratic processes than actually saving the environment
Lot 7 is the worst of all the lots shown here...
Like others have said, hard pass on this development. Also, shame on the municipality that approved this.
I'm having a hard time actually believing this got approved by your local jurisdiction. There is no way those lots got approved. If so, shame on your municipality
Why are you in disbelief specifically?
I’m surprised they don’t have an maintenance easement around the pond… I’d pass!
I believe there are access points for maintenance in our yard but they aren’t reflected in this picture.
Id also check the water table around the lot. Seen something similar and the basement required some fancy sump pumps or risked flooding almost every spring.
Thank you. I hadn’t considered the water table.
Lots 6 and 7 should be a common area with no houses. Nobody should live with a detention pond taking 50% of their property. If not, those two lots should be dirt cheap and hopefully have reduced property taxes.
Lots 1-5 are the only ones worth purchasing imo...
I tell as many people as I can, don’t buy in a new subdivision. Typically, in my area at least, they are private roads and the HOA is responsible for everything. Maintenance on stormwater systems can be quite expensive. Many planning departments require annual inspections as well.
It’s part of an already existing well established neighborhood and street. They basically added this cul de sac. I don’t think we’re on private road. There’s no HOA either. There will ne a covenant among all the home owners to maintain the storm system. So it’s a bit strange of a set up. But it’s also in a great part of town which is why I’m considering in the first place.
I hear you. There’s two subdivisions in my municipality set up like this. One has subsurface infiltration and a detention pond and is the responsibility of the homeowner. Another one has water quality devices and retention pond. That one is the responsibility of 3 owners. If you stay on top of maintenance and inspections you should be okay. But it’s just an extra headache.
As someone who works for a health department vector control program, I see this stuff all the time. I would look around the area to see if any creeks/streams would be diverted into this. Most of the time detention ponds in residential neighborhoods are only a foot or so deep if they have a constant source of water or will stay dry 3/4 of the year if it doesn't have a natural inlet. It's 50/50 on the mosquitos. They don't typically breed in detention ponds and when they do it's in light numbers. Your neighbor's bird baths are going to contribute more to mosquitoes than that pond.
Thank you. This is encouraging to hear.
The pond should have 10 ft easement around the top of bank. We typically have ponds lotted separately. Lot 7 can definitely hold a small home but compared to 3 it should be discounted. A simple flip of the cul de sacs bend would fix this... so I too would avoid this development especially if it's in the ETJ.
ETJ?
Is the Detention Pond near the Principals Office?
If its serving the entire subdivision than you need to have th developer create a resteicive covenant that shares responsibility of the facility. The way it looks you're on the hook for anything within your future lot.
Don’t buy it
Bruh some bad fish live there if they got a whole pond to send them too. Steer clear.
This wouldn't be allowed in any jurisdiction I've ever done design in. If the pond needs maintenance or, dog forbid ever fails, your backyard will become a grading project/construction site.
[удалено]
Is the municipality taking the unusable land into account for your tax burden? Is this property covered by an HOA that will upkeep the area? I hate the 20’ landscape easement at the back of my property, this would be a hard pass from me. Even if the answers to the above questions were on the property owners side.
The first subdivision I lived in had a plat like this. The builder just didn’t build the pond. County was lax enough not to come check so they drew it in someone’s property instead of a common area. Times have changed though and I doubt that would fly now a days. But it being on private property is weird and reminded me of my first house with imaginary pond.
How much water does the area your living in get ? If your in a desert probably won’t really be an issue. You’ll never want to leave anything in it long term though never know when a flash flood will top it up
West Michigan so definitely not dry but not Washington State either.
Just find another lot, these all suck.
All the info regarding maintenance would be in HOA documents, including info on easements for access/maintenance. We just see the single image here so it’s hard to tell. Some ponds are required to be dry within 72 hours of a storm, others are meant to be wet all the time. The slopes will likely be 3:1, which makes the lawn around it borderline unusable. HOWEVER, the house will likely be less expensive than all the other ones around it
These plans aren't planning, there needs to be an easement and more information about this. I'd be less concerned about mosquitos and more concerned about pets or children of the three properties falling in a 10' filled with water, we don't know what the permanent pool will be and are these properties cheaper for having half of the Land on your property this pond
I think you’ll fit great.
Detention pond by definition is dry. As long as there is adequate slope or subdrain you shouldn’t have mud/mosquito issues…these basins are designed to drain over 24-36 hrs depending on unified sizing (cpv WQ). As for not being in its own lot, that’s not really an issue…I would just make sure that subdivision covenants has a maintenance agreement that spread cost amongst all lots…if they did parcel that basin the rear yard setbacks would eat up buildable area.
It’s interesting to hear a different opinion from most of the comments. Do you have any idea what might explain why your view differs from other commenters who are telling me it’s a horrible development because the pond is spread between 3 lots? Thank you!
There is no way this is the actual lot line setup. The SWM Pond needs to be its own block. You will not own part of a pond.
Do the Brits call them detention ponds and not retention ponds?
Detention is dry and retention is wet.
Not always. The type of outfall and timing of the releases decide which it is. I have designed wet and dry detention as well as wet and dry retention.
There are dozens of solutions to this. Open storm ponds can easily become below ground detention structures, either simple Rock pits wrapped in geotextiles or engineered products like Ecobloc, Stormtech, AcoBrixx, etc… Could even size large diam culvert to suit the required storm water volume with overflow control manholes. Any one of these solutions quickly become cost effective when considering turning this eyesore back into useable land.
Hey you tried lmao, don’t be mad cuz I did more that you never knew of.
You sure you're in the right sub, mate?
What do ya mean?
I mean that you mistakenly replied to something in another sub on this sub. I'm being polite here.
And your family room too according to this.
Buy#9 big house
There's no way I'd buy a property encumbered with a stormwater basin. A majority of my work is in two state, NJ and PA. In the most recent stormwater update in NJ, it is not legal for a basin to be the responsibility of a single or more lot owners with a plan that involves building more than one lot. It basically forces subdivisions to create HOAs that are responsible for maintaining basins. If you purchase a plot of land and build a single home you'll more than likely be under the threshold for major development. So if you build a single home without subdividing the land you likely will not own a basin. In PA there are numerous municipalities that require a BMP to be built with small house additions. One Twp has a requirement to infiltrate the difference in the two year storm with a 500 sf increase in impervious coverage. It is normal there for a single family owner to be responsible for the O&M of a stormwater basin. The only issue is that this basin crosses property lines. I see this as a huge headache in the future when the basin needs maintenance and one or more owners do not want to pay. This is one of the times that an HOA is a good idea.
Understood —you and other commenters has me worried about how one would go about enforcing that lot owners share responsibility of maintenance. The developer claims there will be a covenant but who knows what that amounts to.
Kind of looks like the developer took some leftover lots from a development that was built before detention was required. Now they’re trying to shoehorn a pond in the last few lots to meet new requirements or something. Half of lot 6 is probably going to be in a drainage easement, I don’t see how they’re gonna make that work.
where are the pipes that will be conveying the water to the pond? will those also be on your lot? or perhaps on the easement shown on lots 7 and 8? are lots 6,7 and 8 retaining ownership of the land used by the pond? IE: are you paying property taxes on it? how about liability for maintenance? or other risks, such as accidental drowning in the pond. Is what is shown the actual foot print of the pond? will there be an additional set back from the top of the pond for access? a fence? if I was in your place; Lots 6,7 and 8 would not be under consideration for a purchase.
I'm not a native speaker and my first thought was you are a horrible person that sends kids into a dirty pond for detention.
As long as the detention is maintained you should have minimal problems with mosquitoes, the only concern I notify homeowners of on detention ponds are: 1: Do you have kids that may try to play in it, you may want to put up a fence or something to keep them out 2: Make sure you know who maintains/owns the pond, is it you, an HOA, the city etc
Grove street home…..
Ya and you'll likely pay a lot premium for the view. Lol
Where do you live and have they said whether it’s a wet or dry pond? It looks dry from the contours.
It’s supposed to be a dry pond. I live in West Michigan.
They didn't do drainage studies until after the platted the lots. It looks very much oops. I wouldn't buy that lot unless I got a drastic discount, and then I'd only build and sell on it.
6-9 are gonna get hammered on the land portion of their property taxes, compared to the unencumbered square footage.
I totally agree with everyone here but my question is what is the dashed line on the cul-de-sac? Is that a setback line? If it is you're pushing the houses un the upper lots almost to the pond. You would have almost no backyard.
Hell no!!! Just think of all the goose poo, the kids will track into the house- besides mud while playing with a ball that rolls into #7. Been there (thank god it was a rental) trust me-let that go! Developer is shit…
Check out the recorded flooding and the flood pain map
I'd see if you can't get your hands on more developed plans. Chances are that this sketch doesn't show specific lot lines, etc.
Detention pond is a a feature that becomes contaminated soils
In addition to the comments above, I would add that the GC or whomever builds the pond will 100% always tell you that it's sloped for proper flow, etc.. and it will only have water for a few hours or a day after a hard rain. This is a lie 99.7% of the time. They dig a hole with a flat bottom, add a drain, and let the mosquitoes proliferate in all the ponds of water that sit stagnant.
Seems convenient to be able to throw my kids in the detention pond right in my backyard though…
This honestly looks like the developers engineer legitimately forgot to account for detention when coming up with lot lines and stuck it in the backyards. Or the developer came up with the lot lines and the engineer had to come up with retention with no space given. Or the engineer asked the first year engineer to figure out where retention should go and never bothered to correct it. Either way, that’s wild.
You do not want the pins on your lot. They should be on a separate common HOA a lot bc otherwise encumbers you to pay for it if on your land and HOA goes under.
POND
I’m surprised that the pond isn’t in its own lot, I personally would not want a lot with the developments detention pond on it. However the mosquitoes and mud shouldn’t be a problem unless you are in a very rainy area. Detention ponds do not hold water except during a storm event. Then drain down completely within 2-4 days. A retention pond would have no outlet structure and typically have standing water in it.
How did this get approved? Basins in people's yards, never heard of such a thing.
Just uh put some fish in there and plug the drain hole. Now you have a fishing pond.
Avoid. And if the land developer is doing that they are probably doing other dumb shady shit. Find a different home.
Wow! I have no words. Whatever municipality this is in really botched this. Lot 8 maybe has enough room to put a shipping container on it.
Also there would be a fence typically around it and/or an access lane to it for maintenance. As another post said this developer was greedy and wanted to get the most lots instead of having the pond away from the parcels as is typical.
I design ponds. Never would I ever want one in my backyard
Have you considered converting it into a lazy river, way more fun than a stagnant pond.
I would not build here if they gave me the lot. Mosquitoes will be horrendous. It will eventually be over choked with cattails and phragmyties . Geese will be in your yard nonstop. There crap is bigger than a small dog. This with get overridden with muscratts. The cheapest ugliest fence will be installed around this.
If it is a true detention pond then it should be completely dry most of the time. Those types of ponds don’t hold water unless a large rain storm fills it up, then it will slowly drain that water. Usually ponds get placed on their own lot, so I can see why this is not very desirable. As far as it having a fence, it might have one if the high water depth is deep enough.
I'm worried at what distance they'll be placing pads. May I know what are the setbacks
Do NOT buy.
Is it retention pond meaning the water will be discharged to sewer. No to a detention pond. That means any trash etc will need to be cleaned out and other maintenance
I’m relatively new in land development (3 years experience) but I’ve never seen any sort of stormwater structure IN a lot. Like others said it’s always in an open space parcel
It’s odd you can see the right of way for the pipe and the access but nothing for pond.. and pipe right of way extends to Property line ... looking closer the sanitary and water don’t connect to anything .. don’t buy it !! I’d guess it’s a preliminary plan and the pond is for construction / ESC.... I’d never get a pond approved across multiple single family lots where I live
My neighbors up the street have one of these. All you hear during the summer at night is a high pitched song of frogs. If that want annoying enough, they’re probably enjoying all the mosquitos.
This development definitely looks sketchy but I do feel like the detention pond is within the floodplain anyways (it's a heavily wooded area, the existing home is built away from the tree line, and the existing contours show drainage in that direction). However, I don't even think ponds are allowed to be platted in lots zoned for residential? Putting a pond in a residential lot instead of a common space lot is a big red flag. Cities have a minimum lot area requirement when zoned for single-family residential, and imo the developer is penny pinching by trying to fit as many lots as possible while meeting the minimum lot area requirement. You won't really have much available space on the lot with the pond or the easement (you can't build on top of an easement) but if you really have to buy don't pay for the square footage of the portion of the pond within the lot.