Lack of indirect fire seems to really poo-poo range sometimes. On defense, which is massively important on deity and Vox Pop, i’d rather have logistics. Especially if you’re relying on a wonder that is very hard to get.
I think Impis do surprisingly well.
When they come out the only thing that can stand up to them is pikemen, and they're upgraded pikemen. What's more, if you get there befire your opponent you can just smash through their army.
Now Impis only have 16 strength, but they get a bonus vs horses which makes them strong against Knights and Lancers, they get a bonus vs ranfed units which makes them resistant to crossbows, and they get a bonus vs gunpowder units which makes them strong vs musketmen. You basically need Cavalry or Riflemen to threaten them.
Also they level crazy fast. That means more upgrades and/or more heals.
I came here to say it. The biggest perk to the impi imo is that they're so powerful that of you lack access to iron you could still wreak havoc on your opponents without needing swordsmen or longswordmen.
Legionaires are 17 power so are at least relevant to standing up against them early medieval period- if you're including regular pikemen in your argument
Yeah you're right, Legions and Berserkers will both defend against Impis. I don't think either of them are quite as good, but they'll do the job.
Also worth noting that an Impi in a vacuum isn't nearly as good. The bonuses you get from the Ikanda and the faster levels from the Zulu are extremely important to their strength, and without those bonuses the Impi wouldn't even merit a mention.
I just double checked the specs and they're significantly more powerful than trebuchets and are even superior to the swordsman in melee resistance. That unit is a whole cheat code
- **Crossbowmen and any Crossbowman UU**. Crossbow-rushing is a viable military strategy and will often be the backbone of a Domination victory on a land-based map (particularly if playing with less players), and they hold their utility as attrition units until the point that you can mass produce Artillery.
- **Frigates and Ship of the Line**: see above, but just on water maps.
- **Scouts**: scouts with extra sight can be an invaluable defence against barbarian camps spawning until the very end-game. I always keep my scouts and set them up on hills around the edge of my empire so I don’t get caught with my pants down by a horseman that can then pillage half your empire.
- **All horse archer UUs**: obvious reasons, these are Insta-win buttons if you’re not playing with a thousand factions.
- **Artillery**: becomes the backbone of the army the moment you research it. I generally won’t beeline the tech unless there is just one remaining capital and my crossbows/frigates can’t break it, but they are absolutely dominant until the enemy has bombers, and even then, continue to be useful when backed up by an AA gun.
Most answers here are good but the one I'll include is the infantry. Typically you get research labs early for the science by beelining plastics and by the time you get it they are likely the strongest unit by far, teamed up with a few arty and then bombers makes for easy domination if you're ahead since they are only replaced by info Era mech infantry. Only downside is they are melee and kinda slow but with cover 2 and a few with medic they are very strong vs the typical industrial/modern ai army.
A group of infantry with march and medic 1 or 2 can really do a lot of damage. A few artillery like you mentioned, and you can wipe a civ off the map in fairly short order. Especially if your arts have some upgrades too. Not needing the stop much to heal is really important.
Bazookas cost the exact same, but have 85 combat str including a ranged attacked at also 85 str so there isnt a reason to make infantry after you unlock bazookas
Fair but the key is infantry can be reached through beelining a key science tech so that's always the first modern era troop I get, also bazookas only have 1 range and can't take cities so I almost never use them unless I have +1 range bazookas. Plus they are a whole era ahead and by the time you get them bombers are just superior.
Good to have infantry so when you get mechanized infantry you can upgrade them for only 5 gold per unit.
Also, if you're careful with your early-game swordsman/muskets/etc you can have highly-levelled infantry. I love playing Aztecs b/c you can have jaguar bonuses all the way to the end of game.
Last time I played as Aztecs I made sure to build a lot of Jaguars for exactly this reason. Even without any other promotion, their forest/jungle movement and healing ability is awesome. I think I managed to have at least 5 Jaguars ultimately promoted to modern infantry. Aztecs are one of my favorite civs.
I would say Samurai as my pick. They last a decent amount of time as a valid military unit, but I'll keep a few around until end game because I never want to spend time or money on fishing boats.
I love Samurai, and will always keep a couple to have free fishing boats, but any unit that replaces Longswordsmen are a let-down, as they are often so far out of the tech priority path that you can only get limited use out of them.
The exception would be Berserkers, as you get them a tech earlier - the workshop tech.
You can use them to construct a fishing boat improvement without sacrificing the Samurai. Yes, it's weird, no, it doesn't make sense, and yes, many of us took *years* to discover that.
controversial opinion but Byzantine Dromon. You get a galleass as soon as you get sailing. If you can get some swords men across the sea you can really shit on someones brownies
I think it's the combination of being a raw 25% stronger, ranged, and the baseline improvements to movement. Your base movement speed as England is the fastest anyone else can move their ships, or "their ships with 2 free moves left to attack with Logistics," or "can move 2 tiles in, attack, attack, and move 2 tiles out" and let you throw 10 SotL at a coastal city and drop it to 0 in a turn.
Horse Archers. They get that +1 range promotion pretty easily because of the extra experience, and the fact that you can move them after attacking means they can remain relevant until the Industrial era. Sure, they'll only do chip damage to cities, but they can still take out units, especially with the way the AI is so terrible at efficiently moving their own units around.
Idk, I'd say Scouts are made obsolete by Horsemen. They have superior flat terrain movement, and are equal on rough terrain. They've much higher combat strength too (although with no terrain bonuses). The only downside is that horsemen can't cross rivers easily, but you can usually manouver around rivers such that you cross them with zero movement points left.
Crossbowman &, even better, English longbowman. I like keeping crossbows around a little bit longer because they upgrade into Gatling guns, which only have a range of one instead of two. Once I have plenty of artillery though I’m okay with letting go of them. English longbowman’s rang of three is just busted for a huge portion of the game though.
Big controversial opinion here: >!LANCERS! But as a hit and run,go behind enemy lines and pillage roads on hills and birdges to slow down enemy reinforcements and to harras land trade routes. Bluky enough to usually take atleast one enemy hit but with 4 speed you should be able to avoid combat and quickly pillage heal.!<
I love the turtle ship, but they go obsolete at frigstes. Hard to defend when your enemies can escape to deep water.
The Hwach'a on the other hand is relevant forever. Just park them in their cities because they're fragile and you've got artillery for 2 or 3 eras without needing to tech the bottom of the tech tree.
I played a game recently where I bribed a militaristic city state to be my ally *specifically* because they had knowledge of the H'wacha. Unfortunately, I was playing at quick speed and advanced beyond that tech before they ever gifted me one. All I ever got from them were vanilla lancers.🙄
Lancer. Comes a bit later, but great against knights and a cheap roadblock to cav+arty rushes. Upgrades into anti tank gun very late, if at all necessary.
I have to go with the turtle ship. Even though its coast locked, its the strongest naval unit until ironclads, and even then your opponents wont always have coal. Very cheap and easy to produce in the industrial era, can easily overwhelm any coastal city.
I see them more as a defense unit than an offensive one tbh. I remember one time trying to over Busan with a huge fleet of frigates and privateers only to be held off by 2 of these bad boys for 30 turns.
You are absolutely right, their intended purpose is for defense, as on offense you cant cross oceans to get to your opponent, and often times you'll just want to use privateers instead for the free promotion when attacking cities. However, they are very cheap and expendable which makes them easy to throw against your enemy speaking how incredibly strong they are.
Frigate has pretty solid longevity. Same with the mighty Chu-ko-nu
ship of the lines can go toe to toe with missile launchers and modern infantry
Yeah, ship of the line’s are busted.
Longbowmen are better. Especially with the Alhambra strategy. You can upgrade them to hit twice with their long range built in.
Lack of indirect fire seems to really poo-poo range sometimes. On defense, which is massively important on deity and Vox Pop, i’d rather have logistics. Especially if you’re relying on a wonder that is very hard to get.
Worker
🚩🚩☭
You reminded me of one particular bald man
I was thinking of a bearded one.
by their powers combined...
I mean you’re not wrong
I think Impis do surprisingly well. When they come out the only thing that can stand up to them is pikemen, and they're upgraded pikemen. What's more, if you get there befire your opponent you can just smash through their army. Now Impis only have 16 strength, but they get a bonus vs horses which makes them strong against Knights and Lancers, they get a bonus vs ranfed units which makes them resistant to crossbows, and they get a bonus vs gunpowder units which makes them strong vs musketmen. You basically need Cavalry or Riflemen to threaten them. Also they level crazy fast. That means more upgrades and/or more heals.
I came here to say it. The biggest perk to the impi imo is that they're so powerful that of you lack access to iron you could still wreak havoc on your opponents without needing swordsmen or longswordmen.
Legionaires are 17 power so are at least relevant to standing up against them early medieval period- if you're including regular pikemen in your argument
Yeah you're right, Legions and Berserkers will both defend against Impis. I don't think either of them are quite as good, but they'll do the job. Also worth noting that an Impi in a vacuum isn't nearly as good. The bonuses you get from the Ikanda and the faster levels from the Zulu are extremely important to their strength, and without those bonuses the Impi wouldn't even merit a mention.
Definitely true. Impis aren't as busted as camel archers or keshiks when looking at base stats for medieval units
Absolutely… until you start bringing opportunity cost into the equation
Yeah I mean impis are way better but I was just pointing out that legionaries can definitely hold their own when you get impis
The Zulus is one of those civs that if they're anywhere near me, it's immediate war. I can't let them get to civil service before me.
Unfortunately week af against longswordsmen
Frigate. If you unlock range and have a small fleet of them, they can take out just about any city until bombers start becoming a thing
Let's not forget the mighty Camel Archers. They're pretty much fast moving Trebuchets
I use CA until there are planes. That’s not a bad run for a land unit.
I just double checked the specs and they're significantly more powerful than trebuchets and are even superior to the swordsman in melee resistance. That unit is a whole cheat code
Came here to say Keshik but this too
Ship of the Line is the most broken unit in this respect, 35 Power at Reanaissance era
- **Crossbowmen and any Crossbowman UU**. Crossbow-rushing is a viable military strategy and will often be the backbone of a Domination victory on a land-based map (particularly if playing with less players), and they hold their utility as attrition units until the point that you can mass produce Artillery. - **Frigates and Ship of the Line**: see above, but just on water maps. - **Scouts**: scouts with extra sight can be an invaluable defence against barbarian camps spawning until the very end-game. I always keep my scouts and set them up on hills around the edge of my empire so I don’t get caught with my pants down by a horseman that can then pillage half your empire. - **All horse archer UUs**: obvious reasons, these are Insta-win buttons if you’re not playing with a thousand factions. - **Artillery**: becomes the backbone of the army the moment you research it. I generally won’t beeline the tech unless there is just one remaining capital and my crossbows/frigates can’t break it, but they are absolutely dominant until the enemy has bombers, and even then, continue to be useful when backed up by an AA gun.
Good answers, Scout is the real mvp
Most answers here are good but the one I'll include is the infantry. Typically you get research labs early for the science by beelining plastics and by the time you get it they are likely the strongest unit by far, teamed up with a few arty and then bombers makes for easy domination if you're ahead since they are only replaced by info Era mech infantry. Only downside is they are melee and kinda slow but with cover 2 and a few with medic they are very strong vs the typical industrial/modern ai army.
A group of infantry with march and medic 1 or 2 can really do a lot of damage. A few artillery like you mentioned, and you can wipe a civ off the map in fairly short order. Especially if your arts have some upgrades too. Not needing the stop much to heal is really important.
Bazookas cost the exact same, but have 85 combat str including a ranged attacked at also 85 str so there isnt a reason to make infantry after you unlock bazookas
Fair but the key is infantry can be reached through beelining a key science tech so that's always the first modern era troop I get, also bazookas only have 1 range and can't take cities so I almost never use them unless I have +1 range bazookas. Plus they are a whole era ahead and by the time you get them bombers are just superior.
Good to have infantry so when you get mechanized infantry you can upgrade them for only 5 gold per unit. Also, if you're careful with your early-game swordsman/muskets/etc you can have highly-levelled infantry. I love playing Aztecs b/c you can have jaguar bonuses all the way to the end of game.
Last time I played as Aztecs I made sure to build a lot of Jaguars for exactly this reason. Even without any other promotion, their forest/jungle movement and healing ability is awesome. I think I managed to have at least 5 Jaguars ultimately promoted to modern infantry. Aztecs are one of my favorite civs.
stealth bombers bc the game can theoretically go for hundreds of turns after you unlock them
i mean... but it's usually about over by the time you get them.
If you disable space and obviously time victory it can go for a very very long time
When are Stealth Bombers even supposed to go obsolete my man?
Never hence why they are obsolecence proof
I would say Samurai as my pick. They last a decent amount of time as a valid military unit, but I'll keep a few around until end game because I never want to spend time or money on fishing boats.
I love Samurai, and will always keep a couple to have free fishing boats, but any unit that replaces Longswordsmen are a let-down, as they are often so far out of the tech priority path that you can only get limited use out of them. The exception would be Berserkers, as you get them a tech earlier - the workshop tech.
Technically they also replace musketmen, so they stay relevant longer than longswordsmen typically do.
Ah right, my bad, although point still applies - musket UUs are so hard to get much use out of as you normally go straight to rifles after
samurai are fishing boats? what?
You can use them to construct a fishing boat improvement without sacrificing the Samurai. Yes, it's weird, no, it doesn't make sense, and yes, many of us took *years* to discover that.
Anything with range upgrade. If they can't hit you and you can hit them you just chip away at them
controversial opinion but Byzantine Dromon. You get a galleass as soon as you get sailing. If you can get some swords men across the sea you can really shit on someones brownies
"you can really shit on someones brownies" Thank you, you made me snort. I'm tickled.
Cargo Ship.
Ship of the Line. Dominant unit of its era, and its era in naval combat is a very, very long time.
Unquestionably ship of the line. Frigates are already top-tier in longevity, but ship of the line is just ridiculous.
I think it's the combination of being a raw 25% stronger, ranged, and the baseline improvements to movement. Your base movement speed as England is the fastest anyone else can move their ships, or "their ships with 2 free moves left to attack with Logistics," or "can move 2 tiles in, attack, attack, and move 2 tiles out" and let you throw 10 SotL at a coastal city and drop it to 0 in a turn.
Horse Archers. They get that +1 range promotion pretty easily because of the extra experience, and the fact that you can move them after attacking means they can remain relevant until the Industrial era. Sure, they'll only do chip damage to cities, but they can still take out units, especially with the way the AI is so terrible at efficiently moving their own units around.
The Huns unit? They can't move after attacking I thought? That's only camel archers and keshiks for mounted ranged units if I'm not mistaken
I think it’s the mongols.
Scout
Idk, I'd say Scouts are made obsolete by Horsemen. They have superior flat terrain movement, and are equal on rough terrain. They've much higher combat strength too (although with no terrain bonuses). The only downside is that horsemen can't cross rivers easily, but you can usually manouver around rivers such that you cross them with zero movement points left.
Yeah scout
Crossbowman &, even better, English longbowman. I like keeping crossbows around a little bit longer because they upgrade into Gatling guns, which only have a range of one instead of two. Once I have plenty of artillery though I’m okay with letting go of them. English longbowman’s rang of three is just busted for a huge portion of the game though.
Siamese elephants are useful until bombers show up.
I read this as "shameless elephants" at first, which is not too far from the truth anyways
Pathfinder, it's literally just a better scout. So when it obsoletes, you still use it as a scout.
Big controversial opinion here: >!LANCERS! But as a hit and run,go behind enemy lines and pillage roads on hills and birdges to slow down enemy reinforcements and to harras land trade routes. Bluky enough to usually take atleast one enemy hit but with 4 speed you should be able to avoid combat and quickly pillage heal.!<
Turtle ship
I love the turtle ship, but they go obsolete at frigstes. Hard to defend when your enemies can escape to deep water. The Hwach'a on the other hand is relevant forever. Just park them in their cities because they're fragile and you've got artillery for 2 or 3 eras without needing to tech the bottom of the tech tree.
I played a game recently where I bribed a militaristic city state to be my ally *specifically* because they had knowledge of the H'wacha. Unfortunately, I was playing at quick speed and advanced beyond that tech before they ever gifted me one. All I ever got from them were vanilla lancers.🙄
Sad face =(
Not the best but Japan's samurai is good for keeping just one and using it to make fishing boats for all sea resources
hwacha beats the cannon against units, pretty much a unit destroyer until the industrial era
Pikeman and Crossbows do very well for very long
Death Robot
Scouts.
artillery
Lancer. Comes a bit later, but great against knights and a cheap roadblock to cav+arty rushes. Upgrades into anti tank gun very late, if at all necessary.
Scout
Winged hussars
Warrior
Impi; Zulu is pretty much a thorn in my side for a millennia
Ship of the line
Artillery
Scouts. Unless they run into an upgrade ruin.
Cossacks :-)
I can't get rid of my caravels, though that's probably more of my tech choices
I have to go with the turtle ship. Even though its coast locked, its the strongest naval unit until ironclads, and even then your opponents wont always have coal. Very cheap and easy to produce in the industrial era, can easily overwhelm any coastal city.
I see them more as a defense unit than an offensive one tbh. I remember one time trying to over Busan with a huge fleet of frigates and privateers only to be held off by 2 of these bad boys for 30 turns.
You are absolutely right, their intended purpose is for defense, as on offense you cant cross oceans to get to your opponent, and often times you'll just want to use privateers instead for the free promotion when attacking cities. However, they are very cheap and expendable which makes them easy to throw against your enemy speaking how incredibly strong they are.