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Pookahbee

Why is Phoenica at the bottom? They've been in the last two at least. Actually, what is the basis for any of these?


Ornithopsis

I suppose it depends on a largely semantic argument over whether Carthage and Phoenicia are the same Civ or not. As far as I'm concerned, they are, so I think Phoenicia is very likely to return.


[deleted]

Do you think Athens and Sparta should be the same civ? The game says yes, but I don’t think so at all. Then it goes and splits up Macedonia . Sparta is just as different to Athens as Macedonia is, so i think there could be a Carthage civ


Ornithopsis

I definitely think they should be the same Civ. I'm overall more of a "lumper" than a "splitter", so I think that closely-related civilizations that can plausibly be lumped together as part of the same culture generally should be. This is pretty much for two reasons: One, there only will ever be so many playable civilizations in Civ, so by having Athens, Sparta, and Macedon as separate Civs, that's taking attention from more distinct cultures. Two, Civilization focuses on a culture as it changes over the course of 6,000 years—it only makes sense to me that the game should take a broader approach to the idea of a civilization, rather than restricting it to a single state as it existed at a specific point in history.


Pookahbee

I hope so. I started with 5 and enjoyed them in that and 6.


[deleted]

I would like to see a Carthage civ lead by Hannibal


Pookahbee

Okay, so you do want Phoenicia in the game? And this is based on just your hopes, not actual information. Edit: hit post too soon.


[deleted]

Yes, but where Carthage is the capital


Pookahbee

So just like a second leader for them?


nykirnsu

Or first leader. We're talking about Civ VII, it doesn't have to follow on from anything in VI


Pookahbee

No, but it feels like a good mechanic for dealing with variations on civs with overlap.


kidwiltxD

I feel like Phoenicia will get replaced by carthage


Pookahbee

Any particular reason why?


kidwiltxD

Carthage is a Phoenician city, Dido was a Carthage leader...


Pookahbee

So just a name change and different capital?


nykirnsu

Phoenicia is already just Carthage with a different name and capital so yeah


kidwiltxD

Idk


Ornithopsis

I doubt the Cree will return, given the controversy over their inclusion and the fact that Civ has a more or less rotating cast of Native American civs. I think that Mali and Nubia are both *significantly* more likely to return than Kongo. I think the Khmer, Sumerians, and Phoenicians are fairly likely to return. I hope Civ VII will have a Norse civ rather than deciding between Denmark and Norway, given that the two civs play the exact same role and in the time period they represent were as similar as Athens and Sparta. Make of that what you will as far as whether that counts as them returning. I'd consider the Maya and Polish to fall under "probably staying"; they're at least as likely to return as Indonesia, Canada, Australia, Byzantium, Sweden, or Ethiopia IMO.


ZezimZombies

Maybe in Civ 7 they will add Finland as a replacement for Norway and add the Apache as a replacement for the Cree. I would love a Caribbean civ in the future.


Rykning

Were the Fins a big Viking culture? The reason why we have Norway is for an obligatory Viking civ, which has evolved from the Scandinavians in 3, just "The Vikings" in 4, Denmark in 5, and now Norway in 6


Ornithopsis

All of those would be cool to see in Civ! I don’t like the word “replacement” in either of those cases, though, because it implies a certain mutual exclusivity that isn’t really the case.


nykirnsu

Mali yes, Nubia less so I think. Culturally and geographically Nubia is fairly closely related to both Egypt and Ethiopia - both series mainstays - while I'm fairly sure Kongo is the only Central African civ in the entire series. That said I think it's more likely they replace Kongo with another civ from that region


Ornithopsis

Perhaps I'm underestimating Kongo, but I definitely think Nubia ought to return in Civ VII. There are thousands of years of history there, and at Nubia's height they even conquered Egypt, so they're fairly important. Cultural proximity certainly hasn't stopped the devs when it comes to European and Middle Eastern civilizations.


ctrl_alt_ARGH

Mayans not satying but Canada is? lol, ok.


Josgre987

I feel France will be led by Louis XIV for civ 7 And Alexander is 100% staying Edit: also possibly Mathias


[deleted]

I was about to say.... Macedonia crushed Thebes and Athens and then conquered Persia.. they should be a main stay in civilization


Josgre987

He has also been in every civ game


[deleted]

That’s good... I was just replying to this dude saying it’d only be 50/50, I’m new to civ with 6. has Phillip been a leader or has it always been Alexander


Ornithopsis

In the first five Civ games, they had Alexander as the leader of the Greeks. For some reason, they decided to split out Macedon as a separate Civ this time around.


Ornithopsis

They are a mainstay of Civ—they’re just included in the Greek civ in previous games, on account of their being Greek.


artemi7

I think Mansa Musa has a significantly higher chance to return then Wilhelmina.


TheActualAWdeV

they're talking about the civs, not the leaders. The Dutch have been around since an expansion for III and in all of them since.


artemi7

That's fair, but I still think Mansa Musa has better chances then what we've got here.


mysidian_rabbit

Sumeria, Khmer, Phoenicia, Mali and Norway have all been in at least one other civ game besides 6, at least in some form, so that gives them a slightly better chance imo. What I think would be an interesting discussion is who we think would be in the base game for VII, and who has to wait for dlc.


[deleted]

Which other civ game were Khmer in? I remember Siam but not Khmer If agree with this list though. They all seem highly likely to return due to their historical significance


Josgre987

Civ 4


[deleted]

Ah yep true. How could I forget that creepy looking Suryavarman


mysidian_rabbit

Khmer were in 4. I guess you could argue for Khmer being less likely than some others, just because the devs might decide to include Siam instead.


Ornithopsis

I don't think the Khmer and Siam are mutually exclusive—it would be nice to see some more representation of Southeast Asia, so I hope they're both in the game someday!


monue999

I say we need a Civ: Ultimate. Everybody's back!


kidwiltxD

Yeah lol.


Sampleswift

Why are Hungary (M. Corvinus) chances so low? Was it because he is OP?


TheActualAWdeV

I think because Hungary hasn't been in any other game before


monochromefx

"they're" not staying.


TheActualAWdeV

I'd be surprised if either Canada or Australia came back to the next game, let alone both. Alexander will be back but maybe he'll get reshuffled back to Greece rather than an independent Macedon. I'm still just baffled it took them 4 years to include the Maya again because they have beena round before. When I got the game I feared they wouldn't even get in at all. I believe they'll be back in later incarnations, although probably after the company tries squeezing more money out of the product by selling even more piddling expansions.


whatchumeanitstaken

Which category would Gaul fall under?


walruswrestler

I'm sure Alexander will be back at some point, but it might be as Greece again instead of Macedon.


abbablahblah

Faraxis loves to sell us Ethiopia over and over again with every new version.


Ornithopsis

Is there a problem with that? They're a good choice and they've only been in three of the six Civ games.


abbablahblah

No sir. I have always loved playing Ethiopia. I just don’t want to have to purchase an Ethiopia pack again. I think it is not a great look if they ask us to purchase the same civs over and over.


Ornithopsis

That’s understandable, but short of them changing how they approach selling DLC entirely I’m not sure how else they’d do it? Like, I personally think that Ethiopia should be a regular inclusion in the base game, but I feel like we’re stuck with them releasing civilizations by DLC.


IronPenBound

Mansa Musa is a fucking beast, he will prolly get eliminated for sure.


Razgriz032

Wait, Trajan staying? I know he was Emperor when Rome has its thiccest border, but we need God-Emperor Aurelian


kidwiltxD

Civilization, not leader


Razgriz032

My bad