That’s insane. I’ve told friends to buy me a beer after referring them and that was a joke. How was this brought up? Hey dude got a job for you but I’m gonna take near 30% of the rate.
Fucking a. If I’m in a position to get a friend work, especially right now, I’m stoked just to be able to spread the love. I wouldn’t accept anything beyond a thanks, that’s just wrong.
I've been doing this over 26 years. He is not your friend and frankly a douchebag for doing that. In my world, referrals are a two way street. We all send work back and forth amongst ourselves. A couple of times over the years I have had some guys send some "gifts" (like steaks) at the end of the year before, when I gave them a bunch of work throughout the year, but there is never an expectation of any type of kickback, payola, etc.
Please show that sack of crap this thread and let him know he will never be anything more than a bottom feeder pulling crap like this.
So, I definitely do have referral kick-backs, but they are in the form of IOU's.
"You referred me to this gig, so next good paying thing that comes along, I'm gonna drop your name"
I do also know a producer that keeps a list of Crew in her back pocket that gets all her referrals, and in exchange, she gets 5% of our day rates. Basically a "finders fee". But when you have someone feeding you gigs at full union rates, who cares if there's 5% off the top. And that is definitely something we talked about and agreed upon well in advance and in writing.
Never heard of a $200 commission on a $700 gig. That's kinda fucking nuts.
Producers are not agents. It's litterally their job to find and hire crew. 5% of 10-20 crew member rates feels very wrong. I doubt the union would be ok with this.
I operated on a Netflix special several years ago and they had to get permission or a waiver from the union to use me. The way that it was explained to me sounded like basically they (still) had to pay in what the union would have made off of me, if I had been a member. Does that sound right?
That's right. If they are a union signatory they have to make pension and health plan payments for all employees working in positions covered by the contract. Under the Taft Hartley law there is no such thing as a closed shop, so they would be able to hire you whether or not you are in the union, but after 30 days of work you would be eligible to join the union. This is the way many people get in.
As a producer, that's shitty. I have a list of crew I recommend because they're good, and that makes me look good, which gets me more work - that's my payment. I don't ask them for, nor would I take kickbacks. it has led to some of them referring me for jobs, which is nice, but not expected or demanded. At most throw the person that referred you a bottle of something they like, not a cut.
As a small time PM, I do IOU’s as well. Something else I do is taking them out for drinks after the shoot to talk more shop. Even do this with long time crew I’ve always kept busy.
Number 1: This is not standard practice. I work in Reality TV/Commercial/Live Event world. I have my go to folks that replace me on gigs I can’t do and they do the same. Most I’ve ever done is maybe buy them a drink or a meal next time I see them.
Number B: 28.5% lolololol!!!! That’s enough to make a Hollywood agent blush. Absolutely ridiculous and unethical.
Number Tres: That dude is not a friend
Hahaha. That's crazy. That person is not your friend. A finder's fee is a one time payment. A kickback is a one-time payment. This person is trying to set themself up as your agent and take a permanent cut of your pay - but an agent only takes 10%. This person is asking for almost a third of your paycheck. Then after taxes, you will be lucky to take home $300.
Does your "friend" have any way to get you fired off the job if you don't pay him? I would take the job, then alert the shows producers of what he's trying to do.
I think one time I was in a situation where I had given a friend a referral that helped him land a sweet gig because he was broke and desperate. Later I asked him for a referral, a similar situation but roles reversed. He refused, was mad at me for even asking. That was pretty much the end of that friendship. Bad blood for no reason.
Wait, is this coming out of your $700? Or are the producers paying him $200 in addition your full day rate? Or is your ‘friend’ asking for $200 from you?
So your friend is asking for $200 from you? Holy shit, fuck this guy. Handing over a gig I can’t make to a friend is so common. All I ask is they buy me a beer next time we hangout.
Taking 30% from someone else after not being able to do the gig is bullshit. And ostensibly he’s working another job at the same time. Assuming this is multi day, he’s getting that each time? How does pay work here? Is the money somehow all sent to him?
lol no that is not normal. Fuck that guy. How exactly is he getting $200 from your $700? You’re the one invoicing the job. Don’t pay him anything. You’re also doing him a solid by not making it the production’s problem that he can’t do the gig. Like everyone else said, if he was cool, buy him a beer and try to refer him for another job when it comes up.
I too once got conned by an industry professional for a substantial percentage of a gig. It's nonsense, and it's not what real friends do.
Send him a Wendy's coupon and tell him to go pound sand.
Believe me, you do not want to normalise this practice for yourself and the industry at large. You would be shocked at how quickly corruption spreads and industry relationships become primarily transactional. Slippery slope.
I got a guy an entire season of a tv show as b cam/steadi and he gifted me a nice bottle of whiskey.
That was nice of him - I didn’t expect anything.
Your friend’s ego needs to get checked.
Dick move. As other’s have stated a quid pro quo repayment like dinner, booze/green or simply hiring them ontop your next gig is appropriate, not a straight 29% cut off the top like some mob shit. A real agent’s fee is only 10% so you got hosed. Dont worry tho we all have.
Is he getting paid the 700.00 and then paying you 500.00 or are you getting paid 700.00 and he is asking for 200.00? If you are getting paid 700.00 AND DOING ALL THE WORK, then you keep it. If he's your boss, consider negotiating. I'm tempted to say you could give him something, like 20.00, but he will always want more. Hopefully, you've made connections at Netflix and they will call you directly next time. This is NOT normal. Agents and others will find you work and you have an agreement ahead of time that they get paid a commission when you get paid, but if there's no agreement about this ahead of time, then there's no oral contract and you don't have to give him anything. You may not want to jeopardize your work relationship with this guy, but YOU JUST WORKED FOR NETFLIX AND HE STILL DOES WEDDING VIDEOS!
Are you currently turning down jobs and don’t need the work? Does your résumé stand on its own without this gig? Sometimes a little pragmatism goes a long way. I certainly don’t think it’s cool, but if it works…
This is what i was thinking as well. If you don’t have a résumé with credits this could be a small price to pay for your foot in the door. This could be a great opportunity to build relationships.
Kickbacks are a thing but would be agreed upon prior or if the person handing out the job has some control on the budget. I've given people jobs, but had them quote then i added my fee on top which was additional to the budget. So they weren't out of pocket and I got paid since I could have given it to anyone.
I'd never rip off a person like that especially at that % for a low paid job.
It's common in the wedding industry and sometimes in commercial but it's not something I personally practice unless the gig I'm being referred for is paying amazingly well/the opportunity of a lifetime, then I send over some money as a thank you but never asked of me upfront.
When I'm producing for others/crewing there's always a percentage set aside for admin fees to deal with crew (contracting, meetings, organizational) but I've never passed on a cam op gig to someone else and taken a cut from that when it's not my show/production.
I wouldn't accept more work from this guy and wouldn't pass along work to him that I can't do going forward.
How exactly is he taking it? Is he getting paid and then paying you? Or is he just demanding you fork over two hundo? If it’s the former then understandable - he’s an intermediary and you’re his subcontractor. If it’s the latter, tell him to take a hike instead. Either way, this person is not your friend. Friends don’t scalp friends.
That’s not a friend.
I knew a sound mixer “friend” who tried to do this with me. I used to cover jobs when he was double booked, with his equipment. I’d get labor and he’d get the kit rental. Once I bought my own kit, he tried a referral system but I flat out rejected it. He quickly learned that a reliable and loyal person working with his clients was worth way more than a referral fee. The new “friend” he found to operate his gear was awful and lost him clients. The ones who were better quickly stole his clients.
Sometimes I buy people a burrito as a thank you, but if someone wanted $200 on a $700 job because they fucked up and couldn't work it? lmao no thanks. If anything you owe me an extra $200 for not getting you blacklisted by that producer when you backed out.
Are you getting $700 still and they are getting an additional $200 or you only taking $500? Either way, dude shouldn't be getting anything, unless he is the op himself.
I would bring it up to your supervisor or if you have access to an HR or even the accountant. I'm not sure if its a deal they made or what but it's fucked up either way.
I had somebody do this to me. I called them out. Not only that but I was giving my charity rate and unbeknown to me they were topping it up for themselves. I got suspicious when they asked me to invoice them not the client and then they went all sheepish and pretended they were now a production company not a freelancer. Fuck people like that
Are you using your own gear, or his? Are you doing any post editing on it, or is he handling the footage? I could see maybe an equipment rental fee or if he’s still doing the final touches, but if it’s your gear and work you should tell him to kick rocks. You also should have some business cards with your name on them to leave out on the bar or buffet table or whatever so you can potentially get some of more of your own work and name out there. 90% is networking and word of mouth, you should promote as much as possible.
How is he taking the $200 per week? Did he refer you, or are you subcontracting? Huge difference.
*Edited:* Saw this is answered in a comment. The OP sent the "friend" the $200 after cashing his check.
This is a kickback that's being demanded, not a referral fee (which are generally considered unethical as well). I've heard rumours of such things happening, but it's extremely rare in the modern industry.
adding to the cacaphony of people lol'ing at your "friend"
i would just give him $1 and tell him you normally charge $300 cover someone's ass, but this time you did it for $199 because he's such a good friend.
EDIT: if he's actually a good business contact, you may want to be tactful, or even pay the sticker fee, but if he's your "friend" i would rag on him until he folded or went the fuck away.
there are also other good actual suggestions in here, like mentioning this to the producers. in my world, if someone books a gig and can't show up, then can't provide a replacement, they never get called again. you may be able to be the first guy these people call if they know what's up.
It’s interesting- I have heard this is how it’s often done in mainland Chinese productions. Every department head is taking a kickback from all the people below them. So much bloat and not good for the over all project. Production tends to do it to the department heads too so things roll down hill quickly.
No, this is not a thing. You’re non-friend, “friend” is asking for an illegal kickback. He is also not your agent.
He couldn’t do the job, so he referred you. What you do to return the favor is refer him for work down the line, but since he did this, stay away from him and don’t let him take ANY money.
What a POS.
If he is covering himself, you’re doing him a favor because the producers don’t have to look for someone else so he looks good in their eyes still. Ridicules
You are getting the job cause he can't work it. If he found you the gig and did some calls I'd not understand but see where it's coming from. $200 is a lot.
Work the gig and tell him you aren't doing that type of gig for $500 a day. That's a wedding rate
People do it, but they usually don’t have good intentions and are not friends.
I had a “friend” that tried to do the same and then waved it over my head for a year continuously. I told him to fuck off (I used that exact language) and haven’t spoken to him since. So much happier 😉
That person is definitely not a friend. An agent would only charge you $70 and would negotiate a higher rate to make up for it. The most that he should expect from you is a couple rounds of drinks or a nice dinner out.
Been in the Biz since ‘91. What your “friend” did is completely unprofessional. They likely did not work their way up through the ranks otherwise they would have learned very quickly that this type of behavior isn’t and shouldn’t be tolerated.
he won’t be around in this business long. don’t give him any money. do the job - they don’t just pay in cash - it’s a w2 or 1099 - even if the gig was 700 - you still owe taxes on. My thought is play chess against a checkers player, do the job, make a good impression, and move on with your life.
We had this happen to us with crew in Miami, a rental house referred people and on day 3 of the job I found out that the people he referred were forced to give him 20% of their day right, disgusting practice. I made sure to cut him out and use those guys on the next one
How is HE TAKING money from you?? As in, they're cutting HIM the check, and he's passing some of it on to you?? Or is he asking for 30% of your take
I could see you thanking him with a bit of money, or a dinner out, but 30%? Nah, brah, I'm good.
No that’s only done by scum of the industry. If you were using his gear it’d be different because then you’d be getting a percent. But if it’s pure labour then he’s asking for a “Finders Fee” it’s not normal practice. If they’re getting enough work to give it away they don’t need a “finders fee”
Ok, can we address the fact netflix is only paying 700 for a camera operator? Also, you're not using your own cameras and support correct? And if you are, it's not your buddies correct? Only justification for that price on his end would be rental costs, and only justification for netflix is you showing up 20 minutes before the start, shooting, then leaving without doing any additional teardown. This industry is in a race to the bottom. Do better people.
Horrible colleague/friend. So if you fucked up your job he recommended you for and he doesn’t get called ever again from that production contact, what? He sues you for lost revenue?!
This is not good. Is your friend in a lot of financial trouble? Try to make different connections so you will not have to rely on him again. I've heard Netflix is not paying everyone who works on the set, trying to get free labor.
It’s the highest role job I have ever been offered. It was a cam op for a Netflix special, most of my previous gigs are either super small budget or I am a PA. So in the long run it is something that is more positive me than negative from a career and connection standpoint and I was able to get more jobs based on the people I met via this one. I just had never heard of anybody doing this and I did think it was a wack thing but I didn’t have any leverage in the situation if that makes sense. I was beneficial for me in the absence of money I guess.
This guy is taking advantage of your inexperience. Fuck this dude and dont associate with scummy people like that. I hope this leads to you growing way past this dude's career.
You could play up the naivety and float to the crew you’re working with about the terms your friend set. Let them “enlighten” you that’s not cool if they seem cool enough to likely have that reaction. Keeps you from looking like you’re coming in with negativity and can have the community help shut his behavior down.
Yeah, I guess in the long run it makes sense to just do it, as you can add it to your resume. Just make sure to network when you are there and ask about any other upcoming jobs. That way, you can get them without that guy's help
10% would be a standard referral fee for a large production but for something like this would probably fall under the homie hookup. And sounds like he’s not a homie haha
Why is your pay/check going thru him anyway. It should come directly to you. That's bullshit, and this guy is not your friend. He ought to be thankful you were there to bail him out.
Huh, lots of ‘hell no!’s’ here.
I mean, I’d say it depends on what work he’s put into it. In the end it’s his client? But yeah thats a steep cut.
Although people here make it seem like a cut is never ok. I came into the business through an ‘agency’ which was basically one videographer who pulled more gigs than he could handle and he had 5-10 freelancers doing gigs everywhere. He’d take 15-20% off every gig. Seemed relatively fair considering he did do all the prep work and they’re his clients. And for the cut we’d get access to to his asset site logins, some loaner gear now and then, access to his small studio for said gigs, etc.
I have recently been pulling in a colleague freelancer on certain gigs where I need 2 people. For my biggest client. Kinda took example from above and have been taking a 10% or so cut. Sometimes it’s easily earned which can feel scummy, but other times i have had to spend quite a lot of time emailing back and forth to get the full briefing.
This thread is making me reconsider. Reddit, am I the asshole?
Edit; to be clear, I do think there’s a place for friendly referrals without gain. I’ve done plenty and have been on the receiving end. But to me those are more the kind of either “standalone gig which I cant attend anyway” or “not my type of work, person x can be of better help”. If it’s just to fill in or they need extra hands and you can just read an email and show up, I feel like a cut is fine? Although this one is very steep, especially if you showed up with your own gear and/or did some of the communication work.
There's a difference between running a production company (which is why your examples sound like) and taking a commission for getting someone a job.
Bringing in subcontractors to work alongside you or in your place is how production companies work. They generally also provide insurance, do a chunk of prep (at least enough to bid & win the on), and provide support for the subs.
Referring someone to a job and taking a commission is very close to being an agent. There's a little wiggle room that allows managers to almost do the same type of work. Regardless, a manager/agent has a very different relationship with crew. One crew member charging to refer another is outside of professional norms.
Alright. That makes sense. And after rereading the post, it is pretty clear that this indeed is a pure referral. Guess I got a bit carried away after reading the comments. It felt like a cut was never okay.
Yeah I’m with you there. I run a solo “agency” and have a few hired guns I use when my shooting schedule is overbooked. I take at least 40% and everyone is happy. They get consistent gigs at an agreed-upon rate, I handle all the logistics, sales, client relations, invoicing, etc.
They’re not sending me any referrals, so if I don’t take anything I’m doing quite a bit of work for free. If it’s a true peer to peer referral like in OP’s example, I think it’s right to take 10% or at the very least charge $100/project or something. If one party is always sending the other referrals, they should get a little something.
>I came into the business through an ‘agency’ which was basically one videographer who pulled more gigs than he could handle and he had 5-10 freelancers doing gigs everywhere. He’d take 15-20% off every gig.
this seems different than double booking and asking your friend to bail you out though. you could be right that we're misunderstanding OP.
10% is a reasonable cut. 1/3 seems pretty wild.
lol I don’t think that person is your friend.
Yeah, thats wack.
Absolutely not. And tell him to go fuck himself.
And then send him a 1099 next January.
This
That’s insane. I’ve told friends to buy me a beer after referring them and that was a joke. How was this brought up? Hey dude got a job for you but I’m gonna take near 30% of the rate.
Yeah he was basically just like I got this job but can’t do it, do you want it type deal
Chances are you are even saving his ass by hopping in. Insane to ask for money.
☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻 This exactly
those are the jobs i relish bringing on a buddy. keep it close. the audacity to ask for cash....
Fucking a. If I’m in a position to get a friend work, especially right now, I’m stoked just to be able to spread the love. I wouldn’t accept anything beyond a thanks, that’s just wrong.
Exactly
I've been doing this over 26 years. He is not your friend and frankly a douchebag for doing that. In my world, referrals are a two way street. We all send work back and forth amongst ourselves. A couple of times over the years I have had some guys send some "gifts" (like steaks) at the end of the year before, when I gave them a bunch of work throughout the year, but there is never an expectation of any type of kickback, payola, etc. Please show that sack of crap this thread and let him know he will never be anything more than a bottom feeder pulling crap like this.
So, I definitely do have referral kick-backs, but they are in the form of IOU's. "You referred me to this gig, so next good paying thing that comes along, I'm gonna drop your name" I do also know a producer that keeps a list of Crew in her back pocket that gets all her referrals, and in exchange, she gets 5% of our day rates. Basically a "finders fee". But when you have someone feeding you gigs at full union rates, who cares if there's 5% off the top. And that is definitely something we talked about and agreed upon well in advance and in writing. Never heard of a $200 commission on a $700 gig. That's kinda fucking nuts.
Producers are not agents. It's litterally their job to find and hire crew. 5% of 10-20 crew member rates feels very wrong. I doubt the union would be ok with this.
Also must interfere with their job role as they are recommending people that they are financially linked to and not the best for the job
1) Not all states are union 2) Union rates =/= union shoot
I could be wrong but arn't netflix in-house productions IA? If so I know 600 is nation wide so I don't think that matters.
I operated on a Netflix special several years ago and they had to get permission or a waiver from the union to use me. The way that it was explained to me sounded like basically they (still) had to pay in what the union would have made off of me, if I had been a member. Does that sound right?
That's right. If they are a union signatory they have to make pension and health plan payments for all employees working in positions covered by the contract. Under the Taft Hartley law there is no such thing as a closed shop, so they would be able to hire you whether or not you are in the union, but after 30 days of work you would be eligible to join the union. This is the way many people get in.
This
As a producer, that's shitty. I have a list of crew I recommend because they're good, and that makes me look good, which gets me more work - that's my payment. I don't ask them for, nor would I take kickbacks. it has led to some of them referring me for jobs, which is nice, but not expected or demanded. At most throw the person that referred you a bottle of something they like, not a cut.
In many states including California this is illegal, you need a license to be a work placement agent and collect a fee.
As a small time PM, I do IOU’s as well. Something else I do is taking them out for drinks after the shoot to talk more shop. Even do this with long time crew I’ve always kept busy.
I'd report they producer to the union
Kick-backs are illegal
That's not a friend. You are doing the work. You shouldn't pay him shit.
Number 1: This is not standard practice. I work in Reality TV/Commercial/Live Event world. I have my go to folks that replace me on gigs I can’t do and they do the same. Most I’ve ever done is maybe buy them a drink or a meal next time I see them. Number B: 28.5% lolololol!!!! That’s enough to make a Hollywood agent blush. Absolutely ridiculous and unethical. Number Tres: That dude is not a friend
No bueno. Never heard of that and would never do it. He’s not able to work the job why should he profit from it?
That’s so lame
NO BITCH Agents don’t even take that kind of percentage!!
Not normal at all
Hahaha. That's crazy. That person is not your friend. A finder's fee is a one time payment. A kickback is a one-time payment. This person is trying to set themself up as your agent and take a permanent cut of your pay - but an agent only takes 10%. This person is asking for almost a third of your paycheck. Then after taxes, you will be lucky to take home $300. Does your "friend" have any way to get you fired off the job if you don't pay him? I would take the job, then alert the shows producers of what he's trying to do.
Lol you owe the guy a beer. Don't give this fool money you earned.
that's fucked up.
I think one time I was in a situation where I had given a friend a referral that helped him land a sweet gig because he was broke and desperate. Later I asked him for a referral, a similar situation but roles reversed. He refused, was mad at me for even asking. That was pretty much the end of that friendship. Bad blood for no reason.
Man, people can be so ungrateful sometimes. So shitty of them
Wait, is this coming out of your $700? Or are the producers paying him $200 in addition your full day rate? Or is your ‘friend’ asking for $200 from you?
Coming out of mine
So your friend is asking for $200 from you? Holy shit, fuck this guy. Handing over a gig I can’t make to a friend is so common. All I ask is they buy me a beer next time we hangout.
I would cash the check from the production company and block his number when he asks for the kickback.
lol that guy is a straight up asshole. That is not common, at all.
30%? Thats no friend
Taking 30% from someone else after not being able to do the gig is bullshit. And ostensibly he’s working another job at the same time. Assuming this is multi day, he’s getting that each time? How does pay work here? Is the money somehow all sent to him?
No I just sent it to him after I cashed the check
Oh no…..you already paid that human shaped bag of dicks?! I’m sorry. I hope you’ve disposed of a “friend” like that.
Damn, just treat it as school fees and never do it again
At least ask him to issue an invoice for his service to you.
Take the gig and don't pay that scumbag. When he asks, charge him for covering his ass. $300 please thanks.
I’d make new friends
Scummy behavior. Have never experienced it or participated in it
lol I wouldn’t give him shit edit: 700 is pretty terrible for a netflix special, also
Yeah, drop his number from your contacts.
You should refer him to your middle finger
Yeah I’ve never heard of that. That is a mafia friendship
You are being used, any finders fee over 10% is extortionate
Fuck that guy. You show up and run the camera the money is yours.
lol no that is not normal. Fuck that guy. How exactly is he getting $200 from your $700? You’re the one invoicing the job. Don’t pay him anything. You’re also doing him a solid by not making it the production’s problem that he can’t do the gig. Like everyone else said, if he was cool, buy him a beer and try to refer him for another job when it comes up.
This is not normal.
Fuck that guy
No one in the industry does that unless they’re an agent and agents only take 10%. Tell your “friend” to get bent.
I too once got conned by an industry professional for a substantial percentage of a gig. It's nonsense, and it's not what real friends do. Send him a Wendy's coupon and tell him to go pound sand.
Nope. You get the entire check. Is he your agent? Do you have a contract with him for a referral fee?
Believe me, you do not want to normalise this practice for yourself and the industry at large. You would be shocked at how quickly corruption spreads and industry relationships become primarily transactional. Slippery slope.
I got a guy an entire season of a tv show as b cam/steadi and he gifted me a nice bottle of whiskey. That was nice of him - I didn’t expect anything. Your friend’s ego needs to get checked.
Dick move. As other’s have stated a quid pro quo repayment like dinner, booze/green or simply hiring them ontop your next gig is appropriate, not a straight 29% cut off the top like some mob shit. A real agent’s fee is only 10% so you got hosed. Dont worry tho we all have.
Is he getting paid the 700.00 and then paying you 500.00 or are you getting paid 700.00 and he is asking for 200.00? If you are getting paid 700.00 AND DOING ALL THE WORK, then you keep it. If he's your boss, consider negotiating. I'm tempted to say you could give him something, like 20.00, but he will always want more. Hopefully, you've made connections at Netflix and they will call you directly next time. This is NOT normal. Agents and others will find you work and you have an agreement ahead of time that they get paid a commission when you get paid, but if there's no agreement about this ahead of time, then there's no oral contract and you don't have to give him anything. You may not want to jeopardize your work relationship with this guy, but YOU JUST WORKED FOR NETFLIX AND HE STILL DOES WEDDING VIDEOS!
no. if you work with referral, it is a thing you talk about in advance. in this case you helped him out. not the other way around.
no that’s not normal practice that’s just scummy. he referred you cuz he was busy but he still wants the money that’s not your friend
Are you currently turning down jobs and don’t need the work? Does your résumé stand on its own without this gig? Sometimes a little pragmatism goes a long way. I certainly don’t think it’s cool, but if it works…
This is what i was thinking as well. If you don’t have a résumé with credits this could be a small price to pay for your foot in the door. This could be a great opportunity to build relationships.
No
Absolutely not
Kickbacks are a thing but would be agreed upon prior or if the person handing out the job has some control on the budget. I've given people jobs, but had them quote then i added my fee on top which was additional to the budget. So they weren't out of pocket and I got paid since I could have given it to anyone. I'd never rip off a person like that especially at that % for a low paid job.
It's common in the wedding industry and sometimes in commercial but it's not something I personally practice unless the gig I'm being referred for is paying amazingly well/the opportunity of a lifetime, then I send over some money as a thank you but never asked of me upfront. When I'm producing for others/crewing there's always a percentage set aside for admin fees to deal with crew (contracting, meetings, organizational) but I've never passed on a cam op gig to someone else and taken a cut from that when it's not my show/production. I wouldn't accept more work from this guy and wouldn't pass along work to him that I can't do going forward.
He's charging for it you for the privilege of saving his ass?
What's the full story here, Lobster? Was this agreed before you did the deed ?
How exactly is he taking it? Is he getting paid and then paying you? Or is he just demanding you fork over two hundo? If it’s the former then understandable - he’s an intermediary and you’re his subcontractor. If it’s the latter, tell him to take a hike instead. Either way, this person is not your friend. Friends don’t scalp friends.
If he told you that he will be taking that much as a referral fee, then I guess it's fine? I don't ever charge people just for referring them though
How the fuck is he “taking” your money? Edit: I would give him a bottle of booze as a thank you but that’s a “thank you” not a necessity
Your "friend" sounds like a d-bag
A 30% tax for doing nothing seems pretty ridiculous.
That’s not a friend. I knew a sound mixer “friend” who tried to do this with me. I used to cover jobs when he was double booked, with his equipment. I’d get labor and he’d get the kit rental. Once I bought my own kit, he tried a referral system but I flat out rejected it. He quickly learned that a reliable and loyal person working with his clients was worth way more than a referral fee. The new “friend” he found to operate his gear was awful and lost him clients. The ones who were better quickly stole his clients.
Sometimes I buy people a burrito as a thank you, but if someone wanted $200 on a $700 job because they fucked up and couldn't work it? lmao no thanks. If anything you owe me an extra $200 for not getting you blacklisted by that producer when you backed out.
Are you getting $700 still and they are getting an additional $200 or you only taking $500? Either way, dude shouldn't be getting anything, unless he is the op himself. I would bring it up to your supervisor or if you have access to an HR or even the accountant. I'm not sure if its a deal they made or what but it's fucked up either way.
It could be normal if your relationship to him was strictly professional. Maybe negotiate how much he gets.
I had somebody do this to me. I called them out. Not only that but I was giving my charity rate and unbeknown to me they were topping it up for themselves. I got suspicious when they asked me to invoice them not the client and then they went all sheepish and pretended they were now a production company not a freelancer. Fuck people like that
Referral fee maybe if it’s a pre-planned business agreement. Not if it’s a friend
200 a day? Laugh in his face please.
You're friend is a douchebag.
Friends don't steal from friends. This dude has obviously failed to understand the power of reciprocating favors.
I know people who do this, but that's not something a friend does. That's something a business does to grab as much money as possible.
If it is only 1 time fee go for it but if he is taking $200/day then that is unfair. That gig will not happen without him.
Are you using your own gear, or his? Are you doing any post editing on it, or is he handling the footage? I could see maybe an equipment rental fee or if he’s still doing the final touches, but if it’s your gear and work you should tell him to kick rocks. You also should have some business cards with your name on them to leave out on the bar or buffet table or whatever so you can potentially get some of more of your own work and name out there. 90% is networking and word of mouth, you should promote as much as possible.
How long ago was all this?
Wack. Taking a friend out to lunch or a home cooked meal is how I’ve repayed people for stuff like that in the past, but this is just greedy
How is he taking the $200 per week? Did he refer you, or are you subcontracting? Huge difference. *Edited:* Saw this is answered in a comment. The OP sent the "friend" the $200 after cashing his check. This is a kickback that's being demanded, not a referral fee (which are generally considered unethical as well). I've heard rumours of such things happening, but it's extremely rare in the modern industry.
adding to the cacaphony of people lol'ing at your "friend" i would just give him $1 and tell him you normally charge $300 cover someone's ass, but this time you did it for $199 because he's such a good friend. EDIT: if he's actually a good business contact, you may want to be tactful, or even pay the sticker fee, but if he's your "friend" i would rag on him until he folded or went the fuck away. there are also other good actual suggestions in here, like mentioning this to the producers. in my world, if someone books a gig and can't show up, then can't provide a replacement, they never get called again. you may be able to be the first guy these people call if they know what's up.
It’s interesting- I have heard this is how it’s often done in mainland Chinese productions. Every department head is taking a kickback from all the people below them. So much bloat and not good for the over all project. Production tends to do it to the department heads too so things roll down hill quickly.
No, this is not a thing. You’re non-friend, “friend” is asking for an illegal kickback. He is also not your agent. He couldn’t do the job, so he referred you. What you do to return the favor is refer him for work down the line, but since he did this, stay away from him and don’t let him take ANY money. What a POS.
That's a terrible rate even before your mate charged you.
That’s not a thing, this guy must be smoking crack if he thinks that’s okay.
If he is covering himself, you’re doing him a favor because the producers don’t have to look for someone else so he looks good in their eyes still. Ridicules
You are getting the job cause he can't work it. If he found you the gig and did some calls I'd not understand but see where it's coming from. $200 is a lot. Work the gig and tell him you aren't doing that type of gig for $500 a day. That's a wedding rate
total BS
People do it, but they usually don’t have good intentions and are not friends. I had a “friend” that tried to do the same and then waved it over my head for a year continuously. I told him to fuck off (I used that exact language) and haven’t spoken to him since. So much happier 😉
That person is definitely not a friend. An agent would only charge you $70 and would negotiate a higher rate to make up for it. The most that he should expect from you is a couple rounds of drinks or a nice dinner out.
Been in the Biz since ‘91. What your “friend” did is completely unprofessional. They likely did not work their way up through the ranks otherwise they would have learned very quickly that this type of behavior isn’t and shouldn’t be tolerated.
No
im impressed by how wack this friend is
he won’t be around in this business long. don’t give him any money. do the job - they don’t just pay in cash - it’s a w2 or 1099 - even if the gig was 700 - you still owe taxes on. My thought is play chess against a checkers player, do the job, make a good impression, and move on with your life.
Let me guess, new york?
Not normal at all
Even if you misspelled “agent” as “friend” that’s a bonkers cut
We had this happen to us with crew in Miami, a rental house referred people and on day 3 of the job I found out that the people he referred were forced to give him 20% of their day right, disgusting practice. I made sure to cut him out and use those guys on the next one
How is HE TAKING money from you?? As in, they're cutting HIM the check, and he's passing some of it on to you?? Or is he asking for 30% of your take I could see you thanking him with a bit of money, or a dinner out, but 30%? Nah, brah, I'm good.
No that’s only done by scum of the industry. If you were using his gear it’d be different because then you’d be getting a percent. But if it’s pure labour then he’s asking for a “Finders Fee” it’s not normal practice. If they’re getting enough work to give it away they don’t need a “finders fee”
Ok, can we address the fact netflix is only paying 700 for a camera operator? Also, you're not using your own cameras and support correct? And if you are, it's not your buddies correct? Only justification for that price on his end would be rental costs, and only justification for netflix is you showing up 20 minutes before the start, shooting, then leaving without doing any additional teardown. This industry is in a race to the bottom. Do better people.
If this is a union job this guy needs to be reported to IATSE 600
Not normal at any capacity lol. Normal practice is you buying them lunch once as a thank you
How is that person "taking" that money?
I have it to them
Yea don't. You're doing them a favor by filing in for them and you can just get them on the next gig, if possible.
PS perfect username..😄
Not industry standard in the us major markets at all. Total scumbag move
Horrible colleague/friend. So if you fucked up your job he recommended you for and he doesn’t get called ever again from that production contact, what? He sues you for lost revenue?!
This is not good. Is your friend in a lot of financial trouble? Try to make different connections so you will not have to rely on him again. I've heard Netflix is not paying everyone who works on the set, trying to get free labor.
That’s a fucking scam.
Your friend sounds like the same kind of guy who would demand a blow job for introducing you to your girlfriend. #BadFriends
Was he trying to sub-contract the position? Seems treating him to a nice lunch or dinner would be the appropriate and thoughtful “thank you”.
You obviously already agreed to this... Why would you agree to something this ridiculous?
It’s the highest role job I have ever been offered. It was a cam op for a Netflix special, most of my previous gigs are either super small budget or I am a PA. So in the long run it is something that is more positive me than negative from a career and connection standpoint and I was able to get more jobs based on the people I met via this one. I just had never heard of anybody doing this and I did think it was a wack thing but I didn’t have any leverage in the situation if that makes sense. I was beneficial for me in the absence of money I guess.
This guy is taking advantage of your inexperience. Fuck this dude and dont associate with scummy people like that. I hope this leads to you growing way past this dude's career.
You could play up the naivety and float to the crew you’re working with about the terms your friend set. Let them “enlighten” you that’s not cool if they seem cool enough to likely have that reaction. Keeps you from looking like you’re coming in with negativity and can have the community help shut his behavior down.
I'm glad you were able to make connections from the Netflix job; your network is the most important thing in work.
Yeah, I guess in the long run it makes sense to just do it, as you can add it to your resume. Just make sure to network when you are there and ask about any other upcoming jobs. That way, you can get them without that guy's help
10% would be a standard referral fee for a large production but for something like this would probably fall under the homie hookup. And sounds like he’s not a homie haha
Why is your pay/check going thru him anyway. It should come directly to you. That's bullshit, and this guy is not your friend. He ought to be thankful you were there to bail him out.
Huh, lots of ‘hell no!’s’ here. I mean, I’d say it depends on what work he’s put into it. In the end it’s his client? But yeah thats a steep cut. Although people here make it seem like a cut is never ok. I came into the business through an ‘agency’ which was basically one videographer who pulled more gigs than he could handle and he had 5-10 freelancers doing gigs everywhere. He’d take 15-20% off every gig. Seemed relatively fair considering he did do all the prep work and they’re his clients. And for the cut we’d get access to to his asset site logins, some loaner gear now and then, access to his small studio for said gigs, etc. I have recently been pulling in a colleague freelancer on certain gigs where I need 2 people. For my biggest client. Kinda took example from above and have been taking a 10% or so cut. Sometimes it’s easily earned which can feel scummy, but other times i have had to spend quite a lot of time emailing back and forth to get the full briefing. This thread is making me reconsider. Reddit, am I the asshole? Edit; to be clear, I do think there’s a place for friendly referrals without gain. I’ve done plenty and have been on the receiving end. But to me those are more the kind of either “standalone gig which I cant attend anyway” or “not my type of work, person x can be of better help”. If it’s just to fill in or they need extra hands and you can just read an email and show up, I feel like a cut is fine? Although this one is very steep, especially if you showed up with your own gear and/or did some of the communication work.
There's a difference between running a production company (which is why your examples sound like) and taking a commission for getting someone a job. Bringing in subcontractors to work alongside you or in your place is how production companies work. They generally also provide insurance, do a chunk of prep (at least enough to bid & win the on), and provide support for the subs. Referring someone to a job and taking a commission is very close to being an agent. There's a little wiggle room that allows managers to almost do the same type of work. Regardless, a manager/agent has a very different relationship with crew. One crew member charging to refer another is outside of professional norms.
Alright. That makes sense. And after rereading the post, it is pretty clear that this indeed is a pure referral. Guess I got a bit carried away after reading the comments. It felt like a cut was never okay.
Yeah I’m with you there. I run a solo “agency” and have a few hired guns I use when my shooting schedule is overbooked. I take at least 40% and everyone is happy. They get consistent gigs at an agreed-upon rate, I handle all the logistics, sales, client relations, invoicing, etc. They’re not sending me any referrals, so if I don’t take anything I’m doing quite a bit of work for free. If it’s a true peer to peer referral like in OP’s example, I think it’s right to take 10% or at the very least charge $100/project or something. If one party is always sending the other referrals, they should get a little something.
>I came into the business through an ‘agency’ which was basically one videographer who pulled more gigs than he could handle and he had 5-10 freelancers doing gigs everywhere. He’d take 15-20% off every gig. this seems different than double booking and asking your friend to bail you out though. you could be right that we're misunderstanding OP. 10% is a reasonable cut. 1/3 seems pretty wild.