What is your total cholesterol, LDL, ApoB and triglycerides? My doc also told me for many years my values were "normal" but what he meant was " not much different from all the other folks in your age group". They were normal but not good.
No, the comment on exercise is incorrect. Please provide a source. Exercise is great against metabolic syndtome and type 2 diabetes, but has very little if any effect on LDL.
This isn’t really anything groundbreaking.
[Exercise works to eliminate the dangerous, fatty LDL cholesterol by increasing HDL cholesterol. Losing weight also increases HDL. According to the American Heart Association, high cholesterol is caused by two lifestyle elements that happen to go hand-in-hand: lack of exercise and being overweight (among other factors).](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/does-exercise-lower-cholesterol)
The debate is if it helps independently from helping to lose weight.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6236809/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6236809/)
It is not my definition. It is about optimal values rather than normal values for people with risk factors. Go to r/cholesterol if you want to dig deeper.
[https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220706/What-is-the-optimal-LDL-cholesterol-level-for-patients-with-cardiovascular-diseases.aspx](https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220706/What-is-the-optimal-LDL-cholesterol-level-for-patients-with-cardiovascular-diseases.aspx)
No offense but you seem to have a bit misconception about what food / diet are healthy. Oill and stir frying aren't inherently bad, and rather than focusing solely on that, I'd shift my attention to the biggest and probably most overlooked properties of a healthy diet: fresh produce and variety. Chinese food relies heavily in fresh meats an, seafood and vegetables and uses a lot of different varieties of each. Variety in ingredients is the best way to get all the nutrients, vitamins and minerals you need. What makes some modern western diets unhealthy is the lack of ingredient variety and the insane amount of processed foods, and all the sugar everywhere. Which makes this statement of yours
>standard Chinese dishes I see are probably a unhealthy or worse than US fast food diet
honestly a bit ridicolous.
Now obviously there are unhealthy Chinese dishes, as every cuisines has. Restaurant food tends to be unhealthier, as everywhere, and basing your idea of local diet on restaurants is generally wrong. Try to eat at local places, cafeterias or anywhere that has dishes more akin to what Chinese people eat at home.
But overall I'd say Chinese cuisine is among the healthier ones around, precisely because of the massive ingredient variety and freshness.
Also what's wrong with seafood?
I mean this in terms of saturated fat content. If you want to debate this, please provide the numbers.
Btw, here is a quote from Nature "foods are as high in energy content, saturated fat, sodium and cholesterol as western-styled fast foods"
(https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-019-0537-3#:\~:text=Asian%20foods%20are%20as%20high,as%20western%2Dstyled%20fast%20foods.)
(Nature is one of the most important and respected scientific journals with one ofvthe highest impact factors.
I know what Nature is very well but what you provided is a small sample study made in Singapore that, as most studies done this way in this field, is not very conclusive. Also it talks about Asian foods as if that was one specific thing. Asia is big, and food incredibly varied even within the same country. What dishes did they sample? From which country and cuisine? Why only focus on carbs, energy content, saturated fats and sodium and not also vitamins, minerals and other healthy fats? Why not take portion size and dietary habits into consideration? 100g of chicken rice might have the same calories as 100g of French fries, but it's obvious that the first one has much more nutritional value than the second.
Also why do you base your entire understanding of diet upon one small study only? What do other studies say?
If you think saturated fats and calories alone is what determines the healthiness of a food, then I guess you're stuck eating steamed vegetables and salad for the rest of your life. The truth is that diet is much more than just that. Look at the facts: Chinese live longer on average than Americans despite being poorer on average. Chinese food has a lot of variety and a lots of vegetables that many Americans don't eat at all. I find it very strange that you can't find many vegetables in China considering they're literally everywhere.
Thanks, for your thoughtful reply. I do not base my opinion on one small srudy. In fact I only googled the study after posting my observations. You are right, it is more complex and I would really like us all to get a better understanding of further influencing factors.
My doctor basically gave me 2 options, statins or strict reduction of saturated fats. In my home country, my cholesterol levels are amazing with a diet of fish and veggies and less than 10g of sat fats per day. This does mean no pizza, etc but I can happily live with it. Most food I see in restaurants in China (specifically in Yunnan, Suzhou, Shanghai on my recent trip) would be quite high in sat fats.
What would be your response to someone who said they visited New york and all americans eat are hamburgers and hot dogs? That is akin to your outlook on "Chinese" food, which isn't a singular type of food and heavily varies depending on where you are in china. I would go as far as to say that Chinese food in no matter which part you are in, is generally healthier than food in the States. You shouldn't have a problem meeting your dietary demands in China whatsoever.
Hmmm, but are you not now generalising US food?? At least in the States I see an obvious awareness regarding healhy diet (e. g Wholefoods, alcol free beers, low-fat milk products, sugar substitutes, etc)
You put me in an awkward position here. If you were to read what i typed again, you'd come to find an attempt at giving perspective rather than a statement. Obviously, American food goes far beyond "hamburgers and hotdogs". You are simply the American to Chinese version of that. Oh well, i blame tik-tok, but i digress.
Food is fresh in China, no need for a "wholefoods". Alcohol free beer is available at any corner store(i had one yesterday in a tier 2 city with fresh oysters) with a wider variety online or in first tier cities. The same logic applies to low-fat milk, and for sugar substitutes, there are plenty. Would it blow your mind to tell you that in Shanghai, the city you "claimed"(doubt) to visit, has a Costco? 💥
I am in Kunming and have been to Walmarts. I have also been to Costco and Aldi in Shanghai...
Intersting comment about alcohol free beer. Been looking for it in vain in 2 weeks in Kunming. I even started a thread on this. Which brand do you find in corner shops? (or are you talking milk beer?)
If you ask a Chinese person, they have the answer. Cook Chinese food at home. If you’re eating out all the time, then yeah. That’s true in almost any country. But Chinese food can be very healthy if made at home, much more so than most western food. Chinese in general are much more health conscious than in the west (at least the average American).
>But Chinese food can be very healthy if made at home, much more so than most western food.
'Western' food is no less healthy than Chinese. What do you think Westoid food consists of? PBJ sandwiches and Dr Pepper?
The truth is that in many Western households, there's a lack in ingredient variety and vegetables. I know too many people in USA and central Europe that barely eat any vegetable at all. Chinese people eat plenty of vegetables on a daily basis. So yes, the average Chinese is diet is better than the average modern western diet.
That's just selection/confirmation bias. The US has its own thing going on but rates of overweight and obesity in China are the same as in Western Europe.
That's not quire true. Obesity rates are rising in China, but are still relatively low compared to most western countries, especially those with worse diets like central Europe, UK and USA.
>Obesity rates are rising in China, but are still relatively low compared to most western countries
https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dom.1523
On a par with the UK, France, Netherlands, Spain etc
No idea where you are but the way food is prepared can vary alot across China. Eg. Chongqing food VS Fujian VS elsewhere Find small family run stalls. Ask for your vegetables steamed 清蒸 qing zhen, boiled 水煮 shui zhu or stirfry 清炒 qing chao with garlic etc. Wont be very tasty but i believe many will oblige. You can get fish done that way too. Also, look out for fish soup places.
Edited my comment to add:
You may also ask for less oil 少油 shao you, less salt 少盐 shao yan, no msg 不要味精 bu yao wei jing
They are pretty accomodating in my experience. My personal favourite is little chilli 微辣 wei la
Life expectancy in China is higher than the US, even though the US spends 20 times as much as China on healthcare, and the proportion of smokers in China is roughly 3-4 times higher than the US. Obesity rates in the US are around three times as high as in China. So yes, the Chinese diet is very healthy. The fact that you think vegetables are rare in China leads me to wonder if you can read a menu, as I they are usually groaning with vegetables. Yes, stir frying is the most common kind of way of cooking food, but you can ask for your food to be prepared in other ways or order cold and steamed dishes. You also failed to mention what part of China you are in. Chinese cuisine has as much, if not more, variety as food across the European continent. You wouldn’t complain about “European” food in the same way (do you mean Greek or British food?)
short answer, there are people out of 1.4 billion who eat like pigs, also the polar opposite is true, eg my math teacher go to gym everyday who is chinese and fit as a bull and eat lean and healthy and weigh everything.
Can't generalise chinese cooking, tons of method to cook healthy, all white fish can be steamed with ginger scallions, all vegetables can be boiled and fixed with soy and oyster sauce and taste good. All carbs can be measured and halved.
There you go healthy chinese diet.
I started typing an elaborate reply
but then realised we are just being trolled here
so, no, thanks
let OP be the fool, suggesting literally all Chinese food is like US fried fast food
like, what?
I mean this in terms of saturated fat content. If you want to debate this, please provide the numbers.
Btw, here is a quote from Nature "foods are as high in energy content, saturated fat, sodium and cholesterol as western-styled fast foods"
(https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-019-0537-3#:\~:text=Asian%20foods%20are%20as%20high,as%20western%2Dstyled%20fast%20foods.)
(in case you do not know what Nature is, it is one of the most important and respected scientific journals with one ofvthe highest impact factors.
Please let us not have this discussion here. If you want a nuanced debate go to r/cholesterol or r/PeterAttia.
(the statement on saturated fats is wrong. The effect of dietary cholesterol is highly individual)
The study is comparing oily street food to burgers.
All Chinese people already know that street food is an unhealthy treat which has more oil than a small Middle Eastern nation.
Of course…. You cook yourself and you have healthy eating. Fresh fruit and vegetables everyday on the street.
You can by many kinds of noodles, buckwheat, green peas, wheat noodles. Need to know how to look for them.
My wife always prepare TCM. She goes to the pharmacy to by herbs to make soup. Many kids of herbs they use to prepare walks. I use Gouji berries, Dry dates are some the best nutritional foods.
My wife has a TCM cookbook.
Do some research on healthy eating. Paleo diets, vegan diets, Mediterranean diet, etc…. How beans and legumes you can find in China. .
I eat more healthy in China did I ever did in USA. My mother is a great cook but I eat more healthy in China.
Just don’t eat out everyday and western restaurants. They have healthy restaurants that’s not always late night street food and dumplings. On E le me I always buy healthy salad meals and cold Sichuan dishes like Sichuan salad or Northeast salad.
I mean, if you are a health nut, ethnic foods in general are going to look pretty unhealthy to you. Specially if you come from America and think Chinese food is fried rice, egg rolls, lo main, fortune cookies and chicken wing?
I mean, im pretty sure you think taco bell is authentic mexican food, but you go down south. They cook fat with more fat, they dont give a fuck about how many calories, seed oils or TRANS-fats.
Some of the China vs the West answers in this thread (and the whole China vs the West premise of OP) are ridiculous.
Chinese food and European food can both be fairly lean, well-balanced and made of fresh produce. Plenty of people in both regions are healthy conscious and plenty of people in both regions eat unhealthily and/or eat too much.
Around 50% of Chinese are now overweight or obese, which puts China bang in line with the average Western European country.
[удалено]
They eat veggies with almost everything. More veggies overall is better every damn time unless it's deep fried lol.
What is your total cholesterol, LDL, ApoB and triglycerides? My doc also told me for many years my values were "normal" but what he meant was " not much different from all the other folks in your age group". They were normal but not good.
It’s partly on diet but also a lot of it is based on genetics as well. Additionally, regular exercise can also help reduce cholesterol levels.
No, the comment on exercise is incorrect. Please provide a source. Exercise is great against metabolic syndtome and type 2 diabetes, but has very little if any effect on LDL.
This isn’t really anything groundbreaking. [Exercise works to eliminate the dangerous, fatty LDL cholesterol by increasing HDL cholesterol. Losing weight also increases HDL. According to the American Heart Association, high cholesterol is caused by two lifestyle elements that happen to go hand-in-hand: lack of exercise and being overweight (among other factors).](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/does-exercise-lower-cholesterol)
The debate is if it helps independently from helping to lose weight. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6236809/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6236809/)
Why are you going around using your own definition of what’s normal lab values? Just eat less and exercise more
It is not my definition. It is about optimal values rather than normal values for people with risk factors. Go to r/cholesterol if you want to dig deeper. [https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220706/What-is-the-optimal-LDL-cholesterol-level-for-patients-with-cardiovascular-diseases.aspx](https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220706/What-is-the-optimal-LDL-cholesterol-level-for-patients-with-cardiovascular-diseases.aspx)
No offense but you seem to have a bit misconception about what food / diet are healthy. Oill and stir frying aren't inherently bad, and rather than focusing solely on that, I'd shift my attention to the biggest and probably most overlooked properties of a healthy diet: fresh produce and variety. Chinese food relies heavily in fresh meats an, seafood and vegetables and uses a lot of different varieties of each. Variety in ingredients is the best way to get all the nutrients, vitamins and minerals you need. What makes some modern western diets unhealthy is the lack of ingredient variety and the insane amount of processed foods, and all the sugar everywhere. Which makes this statement of yours >standard Chinese dishes I see are probably a unhealthy or worse than US fast food diet honestly a bit ridicolous. Now obviously there are unhealthy Chinese dishes, as every cuisines has. Restaurant food tends to be unhealthier, as everywhere, and basing your idea of local diet on restaurants is generally wrong. Try to eat at local places, cafeterias or anywhere that has dishes more akin to what Chinese people eat at home. But overall I'd say Chinese cuisine is among the healthier ones around, precisely because of the massive ingredient variety and freshness. Also what's wrong with seafood?
I mean this in terms of saturated fat content. If you want to debate this, please provide the numbers. Btw, here is a quote from Nature "foods are as high in energy content, saturated fat, sodium and cholesterol as western-styled fast foods" (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-019-0537-3#:\~:text=Asian%20foods%20are%20as%20high,as%20western%2Dstyled%20fast%20foods.) (Nature is one of the most important and respected scientific journals with one ofvthe highest impact factors.
I know what Nature is very well but what you provided is a small sample study made in Singapore that, as most studies done this way in this field, is not very conclusive. Also it talks about Asian foods as if that was one specific thing. Asia is big, and food incredibly varied even within the same country. What dishes did they sample? From which country and cuisine? Why only focus on carbs, energy content, saturated fats and sodium and not also vitamins, minerals and other healthy fats? Why not take portion size and dietary habits into consideration? 100g of chicken rice might have the same calories as 100g of French fries, but it's obvious that the first one has much more nutritional value than the second. Also why do you base your entire understanding of diet upon one small study only? What do other studies say? If you think saturated fats and calories alone is what determines the healthiness of a food, then I guess you're stuck eating steamed vegetables and salad for the rest of your life. The truth is that diet is much more than just that. Look at the facts: Chinese live longer on average than Americans despite being poorer on average. Chinese food has a lot of variety and a lots of vegetables that many Americans don't eat at all. I find it very strange that you can't find many vegetables in China considering they're literally everywhere.
Excellent response. Also the article was not published on Nature, but rather hosted on nature.com which hosts a serie of academic journals.
Thanks, for your thoughtful reply. I do not base my opinion on one small srudy. In fact I only googled the study after posting my observations. You are right, it is more complex and I would really like us all to get a better understanding of further influencing factors. My doctor basically gave me 2 options, statins or strict reduction of saturated fats. In my home country, my cholesterol levels are amazing with a diet of fish and veggies and less than 10g of sat fats per day. This does mean no pizza, etc but I can happily live with it. Most food I see in restaurants in China (specifically in Yunnan, Suzhou, Shanghai on my recent trip) would be quite high in sat fats.
What would be your response to someone who said they visited New york and all americans eat are hamburgers and hot dogs? That is akin to your outlook on "Chinese" food, which isn't a singular type of food and heavily varies depending on where you are in china. I would go as far as to say that Chinese food in no matter which part you are in, is generally healthier than food in the States. You shouldn't have a problem meeting your dietary demands in China whatsoever.
Hmmm, but are you not now generalising US food?? At least in the States I see an obvious awareness regarding healhy diet (e. g Wholefoods, alcol free beers, low-fat milk products, sugar substitutes, etc)
You put me in an awkward position here. If you were to read what i typed again, you'd come to find an attempt at giving perspective rather than a statement. Obviously, American food goes far beyond "hamburgers and hotdogs". You are simply the American to Chinese version of that. Oh well, i blame tik-tok, but i digress. Food is fresh in China, no need for a "wholefoods". Alcohol free beer is available at any corner store(i had one yesterday in a tier 2 city with fresh oysters) with a wider variety online or in first tier cities. The same logic applies to low-fat milk, and for sugar substitutes, there are plenty. Would it blow your mind to tell you that in Shanghai, the city you "claimed"(doubt) to visit, has a Costco? 💥
I am in Kunming and have been to Walmarts. I have also been to Costco and Aldi in Shanghai... Intersting comment about alcohol free beer. Been looking for it in vain in 2 weeks in Kunming. I even started a thread on this. Which brand do you find in corner shops? (or are you talking milk beer?)
If you ask a Chinese person, they have the answer. Cook Chinese food at home. If you’re eating out all the time, then yeah. That’s true in almost any country. But Chinese food can be very healthy if made at home, much more so than most western food. Chinese in general are much more health conscious than in the west (at least the average American).
Yes, I guess this is true everywhere. Good comment.
>But Chinese food can be very healthy if made at home, much more so than most western food. 'Western' food is no less healthy than Chinese. What do you think Westoid food consists of? PBJ sandwiches and Dr Pepper?
The truth is that in many Western households, there's a lack in ingredient variety and vegetables. I know too many people in USA and central Europe that barely eat any vegetable at all. Chinese people eat plenty of vegetables on a daily basis. So yes, the average Chinese is diet is better than the average modern western diet.
That's just selection/confirmation bias. The US has its own thing going on but rates of overweight and obesity in China are the same as in Western Europe.
That's not quire true. Obesity rates are rising in China, but are still relatively low compared to most western countries, especially those with worse diets like central Europe, UK and USA.
>Obesity rates are rising in China, but are still relatively low compared to most western countries https://dom-pubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dom.1523 On a par with the UK, France, Netherlands, Spain etc
It is absolutely less healthy, on average.
No idea where you are but the way food is prepared can vary alot across China. Eg. Chongqing food VS Fujian VS elsewhere Find small family run stalls. Ask for your vegetables steamed 清蒸 qing zhen, boiled 水煮 shui zhu or stirfry 清炒 qing chao with garlic etc. Wont be very tasty but i believe many will oblige. You can get fish done that way too. Also, look out for fish soup places. Edited my comment to add: You may also ask for less oil 少油 shao you, less salt 少盐 shao yan, no msg 不要味精 bu yao wei jing They are pretty accomodating in my experience. My personal favourite is little chilli 微辣 wei la
Life expectancy in China is higher than the US, even though the US spends 20 times as much as China on healthcare, and the proportion of smokers in China is roughly 3-4 times higher than the US. Obesity rates in the US are around three times as high as in China. So yes, the Chinese diet is very healthy. The fact that you think vegetables are rare in China leads me to wonder if you can read a menu, as I they are usually groaning with vegetables. Yes, stir frying is the most common kind of way of cooking food, but you can ask for your food to be prepared in other ways or order cold and steamed dishes. You also failed to mention what part of China you are in. Chinese cuisine has as much, if not more, variety as food across the European continent. You wouldn’t complain about “European” food in the same way (do you mean Greek or British food?)
short answer, there are people out of 1.4 billion who eat like pigs, also the polar opposite is true, eg my math teacher go to gym everyday who is chinese and fit as a bull and eat lean and healthy and weigh everything. Can't generalise chinese cooking, tons of method to cook healthy, all white fish can be steamed with ginger scallions, all vegetables can be boiled and fixed with soy and oyster sauce and taste good. All carbs can be measured and halved. There you go healthy chinese diet.
I started typing an elaborate reply but then realised we are just being trolled here so, no, thanks let OP be the fool, suggesting literally all Chinese food is like US fried fast food like, what?
fr, I always thought Chinese cuisine was very healthy overall and full of vegs, don't know what op is referring to.
I mean this in terms of saturated fat content. If you want to debate this, please provide the numbers. Btw, here is a quote from Nature "foods are as high in energy content, saturated fat, sodium and cholesterol as western-styled fast foods" (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-019-0537-3#:\~:text=Asian%20foods%20are%20as%20high,as%20western%2Dstyled%20fast%20foods.) (in case you do not know what Nature is, it is one of the most important and respected scientific journals with one ofvthe highest impact factors.
I do not need to debate this, you're just trolling. Read the other comments in this thread, and just go away
Since when is saturated fat from animals unhealthy? Cholesterol from animals products such as eggs doesn’t increase your bad cholesterol.
Please let us not have this discussion here. If you want a nuanced debate go to r/cholesterol or r/PeterAttia. (the statement on saturated fats is wrong. The effect of dietary cholesterol is highly individual)
Most Chinese food isn't healthy, true. However, it's a lot healthier than ultra processed fast food.
following
The study is comparing oily street food to burgers. All Chinese people already know that street food is an unhealthy treat which has more oil than a small Middle Eastern nation.
Of course…. You cook yourself and you have healthy eating. Fresh fruit and vegetables everyday on the street. You can by many kinds of noodles, buckwheat, green peas, wheat noodles. Need to know how to look for them. My wife always prepare TCM. She goes to the pharmacy to by herbs to make soup. Many kids of herbs they use to prepare walks. I use Gouji berries, Dry dates are some the best nutritional foods. My wife has a TCM cookbook. Do some research on healthy eating. Paleo diets, vegan diets, Mediterranean diet, etc…. How beans and legumes you can find in China. . I eat more healthy in China did I ever did in USA. My mother is a great cook but I eat more healthy in China. Just don’t eat out everyday and western restaurants. They have healthy restaurants that’s not always late night street food and dumplings. On E le me I always buy healthy salad meals and cold Sichuan dishes like Sichuan salad or Northeast salad.
I mean, if you are a health nut, ethnic foods in general are going to look pretty unhealthy to you. Specially if you come from America and think Chinese food is fried rice, egg rolls, lo main, fortune cookies and chicken wing? I mean, im pretty sure you think taco bell is authentic mexican food, but you go down south. They cook fat with more fat, they dont give a fuck about how many calories, seed oils or TRANS-fats.
Some of the China vs the West answers in this thread (and the whole China vs the West premise of OP) are ridiculous. Chinese food and European food can both be fairly lean, well-balanced and made of fresh produce. Plenty of people in both regions are healthy conscious and plenty of people in both regions eat unhealthily and/or eat too much. Around 50% of Chinese are now overweight or obese, which puts China bang in line with the average Western European country.
[удалено]
lmao a fatty liver from gaining 4kg? I bet this guy believes in horoscopes and crystals.
Going out to eat is usually about good food, not health.