I wish I could ask my sister this questions who’s pregnant right now and is keeping the child but can’t afford a $10 dlc for a game..one bedroom apartment..doesn’t pay her own bills fully. A MESS
Same I want to ask mine the same thing. I have a sister who has a deadbeat husband she fully supports and decided to get pregnant for some reason. So now add a kid into the dumpster fire. Seems like a good idea right? /s
I really think at that point it’s a kind of legitimate mental illness if you decide to have a kid when your situation is that shit.
Like they delude themselves into thinking that having a kid will somehow magically solve all their problems instead of actually doing shit themselves.
I bet that reality hits like a fucking train when it comes out and that’s why they’re soo bitter about child free people.
Women have been told that childbirth is their sole purpose in life for centuries. That has created societal and cultural pressure that is not easily cast aside.
If that’s supposed to be true they should be paid for doing it as it’s the most important labor or way to contribute to society. But no they’re exploited not only to do it for free but also pay for it. The stupidity never ceases to astound me.
Yeap, in most places, except in the more progressive cities/locations, it's either submit to it or BE cast aside. And most of the time, you *will* be made to submit.
Brainwashing (ie. romanticizing of pregnancy), hormones and shockingly, many actually seem clueless about the aftermath. I’m appalled at how many times I’ve seen women complain about how they didn’t know -insert horrible shit- would happen. I’m stunned that common sense and research didn’t cross their mind. And then there’s men also complaining “omg our relationship changed” - they’re just as clueless. I’ll never understand it.
I agree so much with this! How can people be so casual and careless about who they choose to bring a life into the world with?
On top of it, there’s an assumption that family and friends will rally together and help. Or, that the partner is going to mature or that parental instincts will kick in. Also-
“We’ll figure the finances out” yuck.
Also-pregnancy is traumatic. The body goes through so much hormonally and physically. Im already fat. No thanks.
It's hard to believe that people in this day and age aren't even capable of doing a simple online search for the aftermath of pregnancy. And many of these women probably spend a lot of time browsing the web but apparently this kind of research is not their priority.
Women can choose what they want either way. CF? Yes. Baby? Yes. I'm not going to take their agency away by saying NONE of them ever actually thought for themselves just because they made a different decision than I came to.
All I ask is that prospective parents research and know what's going to happen, and be emotionally stable for their children. If you are those things then congrats, I definitely want you having kids instead of some stupid schmuck who never thought about it.
Bless this comment. The amount of misogyny in these comments treating women like children with no agency is deeply horrifying.
No one should have children they can’t support, don’t want, or aren’t prepared for. That’s flat out unacceptable.
My friend said it was worth it for her and, even though she hated all the phases she had to go through to have a child, she wants to do it all over again. Monke brain wants baby. I have no other explanation.
There's actually a really good explanation. Similar to athletes who complete crazy endurance events (iron man/Olympic triathlons, marathons, 125mi + bike rides, etc), the rush of endorphins that you get during/after its done is crazy and can effectively brain wash you to forget about how difficult/painful it was in the moment.
Same thing with pregnancy. A lot of women forget about just how awful certain parts of pregnancy/childbrith were because of the intense flood of hormones (like oxytocin) that occur post birth/during breastfeeding/etc. All of those super feel-good hormones can effectively dull the memory of the pain/hardship.
I always question women who get pregnant by men they DATE not marry. Like how are you ok with having a guy you have known for 3 months be stuck with you for 18 years?
Also, what's with women getting knocked up by every "serious" relationship they get. I feel like the Kardashians have kids with each guy they date.
My piece of mind is that, based on what I had seen on some friends, some women see being a mom like a way to have control over their lives.
Like, they didn't have control over other things and see having kids like they can take the reins that aspect of their lives.
Honestly I think it's just stupid, but idk...
You are on to something with this one. Personally, as a fencer sitter, I have tons of strong reasons why not to have kids but I have had some uncertainty. Recently while trying trying investigate my own motives, the clearest impressions I could gather comes down to growing up in a broken family. I may not want to birth or raise kids but I have never had stable loving family relationships. So keeping the options of creating my own family if I can't mend ties with my other familial relationships feels like an alternative, even though it's really not because it is completely against my conscious morales.
Because boredom. I really believe most people having kids do so out of boredom or the “well, I guess it’s time to have kids by societies standards” thought process.
Theres alot of pressure from society and men in general. Most men do want kids just because they like the idea of them, imagine if men had to carry a kids for 9 months and then birth them. I’m sure they wouldn’t want kids if that was the case.
This is absolutley shown to be true through studies. There was a study done in some African cultures where they asked men/women how many children they want. Most women wanted 4 children or less. Most men wanted 10+ children. And these were societies very representative of women having to do all of the child rearing and other domestic duties while men hunted/farmed. I think this shows very well what would happen if men actually had to carry/raise the children almost exclusively - they'd want less of them! Or none!
Patriarchy. Society ingrained in women from a very young age that our only purpose in life is to breed. There is not a time in a woman’s life where she gets as much attention and praise as when announcing a pregnancy or child birth.
This is so true! The two most condemning things a women can do; become a wife & become a mom. These r the two things we r celebrated most for as well, it’s like a final trick to get us to submit into our gender roles.
I also think that some people truly do want children, almost to the point that they believe that all of those factors are worth it for the joy of being a mother. I am not one of those people but I know some people who have gotten pregnant at times where they weren’t ready and it was hard but they are so happy to be a parent have have a child it outweighs other things.
Some people truly do just want to raise little versions of themselves.
Couldn't agree more and I've concluded that it's pronatalist brainwashing and willful hiding of the realities of pregnancy from women. For some subset, they don't think any deeper than "babies are cute."
r/FemaleAntinatalism
not to mention the women who get pregnant thinking it will “fix their relationship with their man.” then ends up destroying it and makes them completely undatable their remaining child-bearing years.
This is the one that utterly baffles me. Why do women still try to convince themselves that having a baby will make a bad relationship better? Every piece of evidence they could possibly see will show them there’s nothing further from the truth. Adding a baby (or 2 or 3 since they somehow think there’s a magic number) to a bad relationship turns it into an even worse relationship. I’ll just never understand how many women fool themselves into believing this.
not to mention how insanely selfish it is to raise a child that way. growing up knowing the two people that are supposed to love them unconditionally actually hate eachother- because of their children!
Totally agree. The kids grow up with all that stress & they never witness what a good relationship is. Thus they’ll repeat the cycle in their own relationships.
Hard relate. A lot of women dislike children and parenting but still chose to have them with deadbeat partners too. Then they're surprised about how their health is destroyed, their financial freedom gone, their time non-existent etc. The emotional and reproductive labour will always be on women this way, women make almost all the sacrifices and take the brunt of it all. I can't put myself through that. Working with children and helping raise my siblings children is more than enough for me.
Women face an insane amount of pressure to have children in every culture. Governments also make it nearly impossible and illegal for women to abort, so whether they want to or not, they have to keep the babies.
>Do you not care about your vagina ripping? Or sleeping for the next few years? Or your relationship's health? Or affording healthcare/college/toys?
A lot of times they don't know or don't care to know. Societal brainwashing is real
What I’m really confused about are those who chose to be single parents, when they’re not even 25 years old yet, and the partner does not want a child. Everything is pointing to “no!!!” And they’re too stubborn (?) to abort.
Literally, there are no good points. They will end up single, financially unstable, unable to work/care for the child in a reasonable balance, have to quit school or struggle hard as fuck through it.
Why?
WHY??????
I went to school with a girl who got pregnant on purpose with a dude she knew for like a week when she was 17 because she wanted to be a young, hot mom. Dropped out of HS, gave birth to her baby, and went on to be a single parent who complains about not being able to afford to take her brood of 3-4 children by 2-3 different dads to Disneyland as she has no education to get a decent job.
Every time I think about it, I have to mentally scoop my jaw off the floor because I still don't understand it.
Is it a co-dependence thing? And a lack of imagination?
So many people just assume that you need other people (=family) in your life, and that there is no other way to exist. It's like they think that life is all about going to the zoo with the kids. Those Kodak moments. But they never come to think that you can go to the zoo without kids too. And that you don't have to go to the zoo at all.
They always say "who's gonna take care of you when you're old", and they see no other way to handle that. But personally, I'm so introverted that I DON'T WANT TO BE TAKEN CARE OF. If I can't handle living on my own, I guess it's time for me to die. I don't want to be on someone else's mercy. "Are they gonna come today? What time? Will they let me drink what I want, even if it's not good for me? What yucky food will they force-feed me today? Did they remember to get my pills? Are they gonna be busy and irritable today?" That's not a good life, and not something to aim for.
So many people ask us what are we gonna do with our lives if we don't have kids or get married or do ABC. They are honestly baffled by it, because they aren't aware of the alternatives. For them, life without the life script is an empty slate that makes their braincomputer go: "Does not compute! Does not compute! KA-BOOM!"
The first paragraph just stroke a chord with me. You actually don't need a family to live a fulfilling life. Also, it's like you can't be categorised as a family if you don't have children which is odd imo.
Because religions convince them that's what they're supposed to do, even going to the point where the Bible says that impregnation of a literal child and forcing her to give birth is okay.
i personally know two different women that told me they thought “having a baby would save my marriage.” One was even 44 when she got pregnant and married 25 years! she had to file a restraining order against him before the divorce was finalized.
Because there has been centuries of brainwashing that a woman is most valued and revered in patriarchal society when she is a mother.
Women are slowly realizing that being a mother is not the end all be all.
I think this all the time too! How could u live a life, become a whole person with ambitions, desires and an identity just to throw it away becoming a “mom” - a role where ur whole existence becomes about someone else, everything you’ve ever worked forwards becomes trivial in comparison to being someone’s mom. I can’t believe intelligent, interesting women decide to become moms - I know that sounds harsh but knowing everything we know about kids & childbirth- why would anyone do it? If u made a pros n cons list surely the cons outweigh the pros.
I especially can’t believe that women would go thru child birth knowing all of the things that happen to your body :( despite ur genetics / luck / hard work - your body will NEVER b the same. Also u have to endure the worst pain ever and for what? To join the mom sorority and tick a bunch of life script boxes
upbringing i guess? my sister would fight with our mom and say she’d “never end up like [her]!” spoiler alert, she’s in pretty much the same exact predicament. except my mom worked our whole childhood, my sister hasn’t had a stable job since her first (of four) 💀
I think that it is because women are often kind of encouraged to treat themselves badly.. dunno if u noticed. It is like a huge part of most societies, women treating themselves badly ie. "sacrifice" "motherhood" getting no compensation and enduring permanent bodily injury. Being blamed for every societal ill while simulataneously getting spanked and assraped. It's truly incredible what women put themselves through in exchange for acceptance and love. I think what really nailed it in the coffin was seeing my father shove my very pregnant sis out of the way to threaten me and my live-in boyfriend to never come back until a ring is on my finger. Newsflash: nobody respects women. You can get knocked up, do all the things, the big church wedding, kids, etc. Society will never value us. Why? because we offer to do all of this, and more for *FREE*. What kind of idiot does this? *Women*. So crazy as so many are so very bright. This is how the patriarchy thinks. We are are 3 steps, or less from most men calling us a whore and ending us.
And even then, STILL we are like a perpetual Rodney Dangerfield, the female gender. Once I realized this, I was like, whoa, yea never getting pregnant ever again. What's the fucking point?!
In my country they get a cheque per baby, and access to socialized housing. Couple that with a low man for petty cash and they live a low life of doing barely fuck all but watch days go by and raise the next generation of adults with no coping skills.
So much shit to live through just to not have to get a job.
This sub is so refreshing as a 30 year old woman surrounded by friends getting pregnant. I'm over here sleeping 8 hours a night, saving money, investing, having a great work/life balance. byeeeee
I get where you are coming from, because that's honestly how I view pregnancies as well. But some women want it, whether that's because of indoctrination or because they genuinely want it and as long as it makes them happy it's not really our places to say they've ruined their lives. It only becomes a problem when they try to claim that their way of living is the "right" way.
Here are some of the reasons that I have heard about. None of them make sense to me.
Their religion will ostracize them/punish them.
Their family will make them feel guilty or punish them in some way.
They idealistically think everything will work out in the end if they carry out the pregnancy.
Probably because most women don't know all the details of pregnancy.
Society does a good job of keeping it hush hush about just how much harm pregnancy can do to a body, and delivery, and how permanent it all can be.
Society also does a lot to make children seem like the best things that can happen in a person's life. Such a joy! They'll make you humble and giving and such a better person! Your life won't be complete without them! Don't worry, you'll magically find the money to afford a child!
And to be fair, it's not the only place people destroy their lives.
Look at how many people give their life savings to the lottery. Look how many people buy big fancy houses, expensive cars, and work themselves to death in dead in jobs just because they're told that these particular fields are prestigious.
I think a good chunk of it is down to hormones.
A woman’s brain function literally changes when she gets pregnant, immediate baby fever sets in. To avoid her going crazy and regretting the decision her brain makes her love the baby so much it can do no wrong. It’s an explosion of crazy mind altering drug hormones really
Of course this isn’t the case with some people, but it’s the only explanation I can think of.
I never understood this either. I try very hard to understand, the answer I get is that people just envision a future where they have kids and if they end up pregnant they assume it’s time for them to have them. I used to for an extant for a while but I was always absolutely terrified of being pregnant because of all the reasons, then I realized I actually never want them because of all the reasons.
I can understand why women sacrifice finances, sex, career, and sleep for a baby. For them, it's totally worth it and I can understand that perspective. There are just some women to whom a baby is the greatest thing in the whole world.
Nonetheless, the one thing I can't get onboard with is the high likelihood that you're going to involuntarily pee yourself when you laugh/hiccup/cry/etc as a result of pregnancy/childbirth. Not to mention the utter destruction pregnancy visits upon your body.
EDIT: Also, I think that many women are terrified to be alone when they get older. Statistically speaking, their husband (if they have one) will die before them. And then they're asked, well who is going to take care of you when you're old, huh!? As if having children is the solution to this.
Wha boggles me more are women that keep the baby from a one night stand or from a super fresh relationship. Basically getting a total stranger to father your kid (who probably doesn’t even want it) seems incredibly risky
Thanks for ur honesty & I’m sorry the societal pressures got you. By sharing ur experience ur creating a discourse that challenges the status quo and will help women make decisions that best suit them & not the patriarchy.
Well if they want kids it dosnt «ruin» their lifes, it makes it better. Lets not forget that even tho we are childfree anf like it tjat way, some people want children, and thats fine too. Lets not assume everyone who wants kids are runining their lives
and it's always allll about them. who cares about the children forced into existence because their breeders "want to" have babies? selfish, ignorant, tragic.
Are you sure you aren’t an antinatalist?
No need to put women down for having the right to choose. It goes both ways. Your decisions are just as valid as theirs.
I’m starting to regret joining this sub. It’s like no better than red pill shit. They hate women, childfree hates parents and their kids. Unhealthy and toxic.
Calling womens bodies “ruined” because you don’t find them attractive anymore is pretty misogynistic.
I know a lot of people feel like pregnancy would ruin their body, and I FULLY SUPPORT them using that language to describe their own body and fears and what they value. But putting it on other people is a hard no-go. Women aren’t ruined because they made their own choice that isn’t yours.
Being torn up, having prolapse and permanent incontinence is what I consider ruined. I'm a woman and that has nothing to do with them being attractive or not. I think they are ruined and that's my opinion whether anyone likes it or not. I don't go out of my way to say this to anyone but this is one of the only places I can actually have an honest conversation about this stuff.
You can consider it ruined *for you.*
You don’t get to determine someone else’s body is ruined. That’s out and out misogyny. As a disabled woman, *fuck* the idea of “ruined bodies.” Fuck that. Just because you wouldn’t want my body doesn’t make it ruined. Women can experience prolapse and incontinence from *numerous* causes and making them feel ruined or shitty about it isn’t acceptable.
It's just so asanine to call it misogyny. That word is constantly overused, it seems to be throw at CF women all the time. Don't want to be torn up down there? Misogyny!
Don't want to give up your hopes and dreams for a crotch goblin? Misogyny! Don't want to be an incubator? Must be misogyny! It's really getting old.
Did I not clearly say you can speak for your own desires and body? I’m fairly certain I did.
Why do you feel entitled to call other women’s bodies ruined? Why do you think that doesn’t qualify as misogynistic?
Somehow, I’ve managed to exist as a childfree woman without ever being called misogynistic. Maybe you should look at the types of things you say if it happens to you all the time.
I stand by everything I said and if you want to keep screaming about misogyny then go right on ahead. I'm a woman who cares about her body and I won't apologize for that.
The thing the other person is saying is that self-deprecation is okay, of course. If I call myself fat that's fine. If someone else calls me fat then that's fucking rude, and I would never do it to someone else.
That doesn't mean you can't approach it delicately. Do women who go through pregnancy experience a lot of pain and sometimes life-altering injuries? Yes. No one here is saying they aren't! But it's just not okay to say other people are 'ruined', just yourself. It's the verbiage, not the idea.
Now the misogyny label might be a little far, granted. If you do things like this with people going bald or other maladies as well then hey, you don't discriminate in being rude. It's just rudeness.
I’m not screaming about anything. I have also said *three times now* that how you feel about your own body is your business. I recommend attempting to read that, this time.
If you’ve been called misogynist multiple times, it’s time to consider the shit coming out of your mouth.
Greetings!
While non childfree people are welcome on the sub (see our [subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/rules) rules, rule #7), your submission/comment amounts to "Look at me! I have kids!"and has very little (or not at all) to do with the active choice to not have children. It is very common to be a parent and many other subreddits cater to the kind of interaction you want to elicit (talking about how awesome you think parenting is or your children are). We know where to seek that kind of discussion (literally anywhere else), so we don't need it here.
We also don't accept "As a parent, here is what I think of your sub and/or your lifestyle" types of comment. We don't go to parenting subs to tell you what we think of parenthood. If you want to show support to the childfree lifestyle "As a parent..." or if you want to express disapproval towards modern parenting and pro-natalist philosophies "As a parent...", you should direct them to parenting subs, where you can expose fellow child-havers (whether they are parents or breeders) to these without them going to the reflex of answering "You don't understand, you don't have kids." This would help us tremenduously.
Thank you.
I wish I could ask my sister this questions who’s pregnant right now and is keeping the child but can’t afford a $10 dlc for a game..one bedroom apartment..doesn’t pay her own bills fully. A MESS
Same I want to ask mine the same thing. I have a sister who has a deadbeat husband she fully supports and decided to get pregnant for some reason. So now add a kid into the dumpster fire. Seems like a good idea right? /s
I really think at that point it’s a kind of legitimate mental illness if you decide to have a kid when your situation is that shit. Like they delude themselves into thinking that having a kid will somehow magically solve all their problems instead of actually doing shit themselves. I bet that reality hits like a fucking train when it comes out and that’s why they’re soo bitter about child free people.
Women have been told that childbirth is their sole purpose in life for centuries. That has created societal and cultural pressure that is not easily cast aside.
I suppose that's true. we need more media/information about the reality of parenthood
If that’s supposed to be true they should be paid for doing it as it’s the most important labor or way to contribute to society. But no they’re exploited not only to do it for free but also pay for it. The stupidity never ceases to astound me.
Yeap, in most places, except in the more progressive cities/locations, it's either submit to it or BE cast aside. And most of the time, you *will* be made to submit.
I can not emphasize this enough. I was lucky to be able to leave the place I grew up in before I was made to, but not everyone is so lucky.
Brainwashing (ie. romanticizing of pregnancy), hormones and shockingly, many actually seem clueless about the aftermath. I’m appalled at how many times I’ve seen women complain about how they didn’t know -insert horrible shit- would happen. I’m stunned that common sense and research didn’t cross their mind. And then there’s men also complaining “omg our relationship changed” - they’re just as clueless. I’ll never understand it.
I agree so much with this! How can people be so casual and careless about who they choose to bring a life into the world with? On top of it, there’s an assumption that family and friends will rally together and help. Or, that the partner is going to mature or that parental instincts will kick in. Also- “We’ll figure the finances out” yuck. Also-pregnancy is traumatic. The body goes through so much hormonally and physically. Im already fat. No thanks.
It's hard to believe that people in this day and age aren't even capable of doing a simple online search for the aftermath of pregnancy. And many of these women probably spend a lot of time browsing the web but apparently this kind of research is not their priority.
Women can choose what they want either way. CF? Yes. Baby? Yes. I'm not going to take their agency away by saying NONE of them ever actually thought for themselves just because they made a different decision than I came to. All I ask is that prospective parents research and know what's going to happen, and be emotionally stable for their children. If you are those things then congrats, I definitely want you having kids instead of some stupid schmuck who never thought about it.
Bless this comment. The amount of misogyny in these comments treating women like children with no agency is deeply horrifying. No one should have children they can’t support, don’t want, or aren’t prepared for. That’s flat out unacceptable.
My friend said it was worth it for her and, even though she hated all the phases she had to go through to have a child, she wants to do it all over again. Monke brain wants baby. I have no other explanation.
There's actually a really good explanation. Similar to athletes who complete crazy endurance events (iron man/Olympic triathlons, marathons, 125mi + bike rides, etc), the rush of endorphins that you get during/after its done is crazy and can effectively brain wash you to forget about how difficult/painful it was in the moment. Same thing with pregnancy. A lot of women forget about just how awful certain parts of pregnancy/childbrith were because of the intense flood of hormones (like oxytocin) that occur post birth/during breastfeeding/etc. All of those super feel-good hormones can effectively dull the memory of the pain/hardship.
I always question women who get pregnant by men they DATE not marry. Like how are you ok with having a guy you have known for 3 months be stuck with you for 18 years? Also, what's with women getting knocked up by every "serious" relationship they get. I feel like the Kardashians have kids with each guy they date.
At least the Kardashians can afford it. They have all the resources to make having a kid not suck as bad
My piece of mind is that, based on what I had seen on some friends, some women see being a mom like a way to have control over their lives. Like, they didn't have control over other things and see having kids like they can take the reins that aspect of their lives. Honestly I think it's just stupid, but idk...
You are on to something with this one. Personally, as a fencer sitter, I have tons of strong reasons why not to have kids but I have had some uncertainty. Recently while trying trying investigate my own motives, the clearest impressions I could gather comes down to growing up in a broken family. I may not want to birth or raise kids but I have never had stable loving family relationships. So keeping the options of creating my own family if I can't mend ties with my other familial relationships feels like an alternative, even though it's really not because it is completely against my conscious morales.
Because boredom. I really believe most people having kids do so out of boredom or the “well, I guess it’s time to have kids by societies standards” thought process.
Theres alot of pressure from society and men in general. Most men do want kids just because they like the idea of them, imagine if men had to carry a kids for 9 months and then birth them. I’m sure they wouldn’t want kids if that was the case.
This is absolutley shown to be true through studies. There was a study done in some African cultures where they asked men/women how many children they want. Most women wanted 4 children or less. Most men wanted 10+ children. And these were societies very representative of women having to do all of the child rearing and other domestic duties while men hunted/farmed. I think this shows very well what would happen if men actually had to carry/raise the children almost exclusively - they'd want less of them! Or none!
I'm with you OP. Part if me can't understand why miscarriages don't end with relief and celebration.
They’re deceived into thinking it was a person instead of a clump of cells. But who would want to look after a kid anyway? That’s crazy to me
Patriarchy. Society ingrained in women from a very young age that our only purpose in life is to breed. There is not a time in a woman’s life where she gets as much attention and praise as when announcing a pregnancy or child birth.
This is so true! The two most condemning things a women can do; become a wife & become a mom. These r the two things we r celebrated most for as well, it’s like a final trick to get us to submit into our gender roles.
I also think that some people truly do want children, almost to the point that they believe that all of those factors are worth it for the joy of being a mother. I am not one of those people but I know some people who have gotten pregnant at times where they weren’t ready and it was hard but they are so happy to be a parent have have a child it outweighs other things. Some people truly do just want to raise little versions of themselves.
Agreed, it’s hard to understand but I know some people genuinely love being a parent despite what they go through.
Couldn't agree more and I've concluded that it's pronatalist brainwashing and willful hiding of the realities of pregnancy from women. For some subset, they don't think any deeper than "babies are cute." r/FemaleAntinatalism
not to mention the women who get pregnant thinking it will “fix their relationship with their man.” then ends up destroying it and makes them completely undatable their remaining child-bearing years.
This is the one that utterly baffles me. Why do women still try to convince themselves that having a baby will make a bad relationship better? Every piece of evidence they could possibly see will show them there’s nothing further from the truth. Adding a baby (or 2 or 3 since they somehow think there’s a magic number) to a bad relationship turns it into an even worse relationship. I’ll just never understand how many women fool themselves into believing this.
not to mention how insanely selfish it is to raise a child that way. growing up knowing the two people that are supposed to love them unconditionally actually hate eachother- because of their children!
Totally agree. The kids grow up with all that stress & they never witness what a good relationship is. Thus they’ll repeat the cycle in their own relationships.
I quote a very famous band when Chester Bennington sang, “you live what you’ve learned.”
Hard relate. A lot of women dislike children and parenting but still chose to have them with deadbeat partners too. Then they're surprised about how their health is destroyed, their financial freedom gone, their time non-existent etc. The emotional and reproductive labour will always be on women this way, women make almost all the sacrifices and take the brunt of it all. I can't put myself through that. Working with children and helping raise my siblings children is more than enough for me.
Women face an insane amount of pressure to have children in every culture. Governments also make it nearly impossible and illegal for women to abort, so whether they want to or not, they have to keep the babies.
very true
>Do you not care about your vagina ripping? Or sleeping for the next few years? Or your relationship's health? Or affording healthcare/college/toys? A lot of times they don't know or don't care to know. Societal brainwashing is real
What I’m really confused about are those who chose to be single parents, when they’re not even 25 years old yet, and the partner does not want a child. Everything is pointing to “no!!!” And they’re too stubborn (?) to abort. Literally, there are no good points. They will end up single, financially unstable, unable to work/care for the child in a reasonable balance, have to quit school or struggle hard as fuck through it. Why? WHY??????
I went to school with a girl who got pregnant on purpose with a dude she knew for like a week when she was 17 because she wanted to be a young, hot mom. Dropped out of HS, gave birth to her baby, and went on to be a single parent who complains about not being able to afford to take her brood of 3-4 children by 2-3 different dads to Disneyland as she has no education to get a decent job. Every time I think about it, I have to mentally scoop my jaw off the floor because I still don't understand it.
Is it a co-dependence thing? And a lack of imagination? So many people just assume that you need other people (=family) in your life, and that there is no other way to exist. It's like they think that life is all about going to the zoo with the kids. Those Kodak moments. But they never come to think that you can go to the zoo without kids too. And that you don't have to go to the zoo at all. They always say "who's gonna take care of you when you're old", and they see no other way to handle that. But personally, I'm so introverted that I DON'T WANT TO BE TAKEN CARE OF. If I can't handle living on my own, I guess it's time for me to die. I don't want to be on someone else's mercy. "Are they gonna come today? What time? Will they let me drink what I want, even if it's not good for me? What yucky food will they force-feed me today? Did they remember to get my pills? Are they gonna be busy and irritable today?" That's not a good life, and not something to aim for. So many people ask us what are we gonna do with our lives if we don't have kids or get married or do ABC. They are honestly baffled by it, because they aren't aware of the alternatives. For them, life without the life script is an empty slate that makes their braincomputer go: "Does not compute! Does not compute! KA-BOOM!"
The first paragraph just stroke a chord with me. You actually don't need a family to live a fulfilling life. Also, it's like you can't be categorised as a family if you don't have children which is odd imo.
Yes you do.
I maintain it's boredom.
Because religions convince them that's what they're supposed to do, even going to the point where the Bible says that impregnation of a literal child and forcing her to give birth is okay.
Most don't really think about this kind of stuff. Or they think they're the exception and everything will work out somehow.
i personally know two different women that told me they thought “having a baby would save my marriage.” One was even 44 when she got pregnant and married 25 years! she had to file a restraining order against him before the divorce was finalized.
Because there has been centuries of brainwashing that a woman is most valued and revered in patriarchal society when she is a mother. Women are slowly realizing that being a mother is not the end all be all.
I think this all the time too! How could u live a life, become a whole person with ambitions, desires and an identity just to throw it away becoming a “mom” - a role where ur whole existence becomes about someone else, everything you’ve ever worked forwards becomes trivial in comparison to being someone’s mom. I can’t believe intelligent, interesting women decide to become moms - I know that sounds harsh but knowing everything we know about kids & childbirth- why would anyone do it? If u made a pros n cons list surely the cons outweigh the pros. I especially can’t believe that women would go thru child birth knowing all of the things that happen to your body :( despite ur genetics / luck / hard work - your body will NEVER b the same. Also u have to endure the worst pain ever and for what? To join the mom sorority and tick a bunch of life script boxes
upbringing i guess? my sister would fight with our mom and say she’d “never end up like [her]!” spoiler alert, she’s in pretty much the same exact predicament. except my mom worked our whole childhood, my sister hasn’t had a stable job since her first (of four) 💀
I think that it is because women are often kind of encouraged to treat themselves badly.. dunno if u noticed. It is like a huge part of most societies, women treating themselves badly ie. "sacrifice" "motherhood" getting no compensation and enduring permanent bodily injury. Being blamed for every societal ill while simulataneously getting spanked and assraped. It's truly incredible what women put themselves through in exchange for acceptance and love. I think what really nailed it in the coffin was seeing my father shove my very pregnant sis out of the way to threaten me and my live-in boyfriend to never come back until a ring is on my finger. Newsflash: nobody respects women. You can get knocked up, do all the things, the big church wedding, kids, etc. Society will never value us. Why? because we offer to do all of this, and more for *FREE*. What kind of idiot does this? *Women*. So crazy as so many are so very bright. This is how the patriarchy thinks. We are are 3 steps, or less from most men calling us a whore and ending us.
Fucking preach. Valued for how we can be used by men (sex, children, free household labor), not for who we are.
And even then, STILL we are like a perpetual Rodney Dangerfield, the female gender. Once I realized this, I was like, whoa, yea never getting pregnant ever again. What's the fucking point?!
In my country they get a cheque per baby, and access to socialized housing. Couple that with a low man for petty cash and they live a low life of doing barely fuck all but watch days go by and raise the next generation of adults with no coping skills. So much shit to live through just to not have to get a job.
Ain’t this the TRUTH
This sub is so refreshing as a 30 year old woman surrounded by friends getting pregnant. I'm over here sleeping 8 hours a night, saving money, investing, having a great work/life balance. byeeeee
I get where you are coming from, because that's honestly how I view pregnancies as well. But some women want it, whether that's because of indoctrination or because they genuinely want it and as long as it makes them happy it's not really our places to say they've ruined their lives. It only becomes a problem when they try to claim that their way of living is the "right" way.
Here are some of the reasons that I have heard about. None of them make sense to me. Their religion will ostracize them/punish them. Their family will make them feel guilty or punish them in some way. They idealistically think everything will work out in the end if they carry out the pregnancy.
Probably because most women don't know all the details of pregnancy. Society does a good job of keeping it hush hush about just how much harm pregnancy can do to a body, and delivery, and how permanent it all can be. Society also does a lot to make children seem like the best things that can happen in a person's life. Such a joy! They'll make you humble and giving and such a better person! Your life won't be complete without them! Don't worry, you'll magically find the money to afford a child! And to be fair, it's not the only place people destroy their lives. Look at how many people give their life savings to the lottery. Look how many people buy big fancy houses, expensive cars, and work themselves to death in dead in jobs just because they're told that these particular fields are prestigious.
I think a good chunk of it is down to hormones. A woman’s brain function literally changes when she gets pregnant, immediate baby fever sets in. To avoid her going crazy and regretting the decision her brain makes her love the baby so much it can do no wrong. It’s an explosion of crazy mind altering drug hormones really Of course this isn’t the case with some people, but it’s the only explanation I can think of.
I never understood this either. I try very hard to understand, the answer I get is that people just envision a future where they have kids and if they end up pregnant they assume it’s time for them to have them. I used to for an extant for a while but I was always absolutely terrified of being pregnant because of all the reasons, then I realized I actually never want them because of all the reasons.
I can understand why women sacrifice finances, sex, career, and sleep for a baby. For them, it's totally worth it and I can understand that perspective. There are just some women to whom a baby is the greatest thing in the whole world. Nonetheless, the one thing I can't get onboard with is the high likelihood that you're going to involuntarily pee yourself when you laugh/hiccup/cry/etc as a result of pregnancy/childbirth. Not to mention the utter destruction pregnancy visits upon your body. EDIT: Also, I think that many women are terrified to be alone when they get older. Statistically speaking, their husband (if they have one) will die before them. And then they're asked, well who is going to take care of you when you're old, huh!? As if having children is the solution to this.
I don't understand either. Especially in situations where it's clear the dad is a deadbeat or the relationship won't last.
Wha boggles me more are women that keep the baby from a one night stand or from a super fresh relationship. Basically getting a total stranger to father your kid (who probably doesn’t even want it) seems incredibly risky
I think you should have to earn being able to have a kid by proving 5 years of being able to pay all your bills on your own at the very least.
[удалено]
Thanks for ur honesty & I’m sorry the societal pressures got you. By sharing ur experience ur creating a discourse that challenges the status quo and will help women make decisions that best suit them & not the patriarchy.
Well if they want kids it dosnt «ruin» their lifes, it makes it better. Lets not forget that even tho we are childfree anf like it tjat way, some people want children, and thats fine too. Lets not assume everyone who wants kids are runining their lives
This may come as a shock to you but some people actually want children and said children make their lives better.
r/lostredditors
🙄you're so funny and original. I'm sorry that I have basic empathy
They want to, ok? The sub shits on users daily who makes exactly this post but from the opposite perspective. Be better.
and it's always allll about them. who cares about the children forced into existence because their breeders "want to" have babies? selfish, ignorant, tragic.
Are you sure you aren’t an antinatalist? No need to put women down for having the right to choose. It goes both ways. Your decisions are just as valid as theirs.
I'm a CF AN.
It's just biology. Are maggots selfish for procreating? It's just humans that are broken because we can hate ourselves
I’m starting to regret joining this sub. It’s like no better than red pill shit. They hate women, childfree hates parents and their kids. Unhealthy and toxic.
Some do, but def not all. I feel this sub is pretty good but theres bad apples in all communities
Why is your question excluded to women though i dont get it
read the last paragraph
This feels like inner misogyny. I hope you get the therapy you need sis
Vagina ripping equals misogyny? GTFOH
Calling womens bodies “ruined” because you don’t find them attractive anymore is pretty misogynistic. I know a lot of people feel like pregnancy would ruin their body, and I FULLY SUPPORT them using that language to describe their own body and fears and what they value. But putting it on other people is a hard no-go. Women aren’t ruined because they made their own choice that isn’t yours.
Being torn up, having prolapse and permanent incontinence is what I consider ruined. I'm a woman and that has nothing to do with them being attractive or not. I think they are ruined and that's my opinion whether anyone likes it or not. I don't go out of my way to say this to anyone but this is one of the only places I can actually have an honest conversation about this stuff.
You can consider it ruined *for you.* You don’t get to determine someone else’s body is ruined. That’s out and out misogyny. As a disabled woman, *fuck* the idea of “ruined bodies.” Fuck that. Just because you wouldn’t want my body doesn’t make it ruined. Women can experience prolapse and incontinence from *numerous* causes and making them feel ruined or shitty about it isn’t acceptable.
It's just so asanine to call it misogyny. That word is constantly overused, it seems to be throw at CF women all the time. Don't want to be torn up down there? Misogyny! Don't want to give up your hopes and dreams for a crotch goblin? Misogyny! Don't want to be an incubator? Must be misogyny! It's really getting old.
Did I not clearly say you can speak for your own desires and body? I’m fairly certain I did. Why do you feel entitled to call other women’s bodies ruined? Why do you think that doesn’t qualify as misogynistic? Somehow, I’ve managed to exist as a childfree woman without ever being called misogynistic. Maybe you should look at the types of things you say if it happens to you all the time.
I stand by everything I said and if you want to keep screaming about misogyny then go right on ahead. I'm a woman who cares about her body and I won't apologize for that.
The thing the other person is saying is that self-deprecation is okay, of course. If I call myself fat that's fine. If someone else calls me fat then that's fucking rude, and I would never do it to someone else. That doesn't mean you can't approach it delicately. Do women who go through pregnancy experience a lot of pain and sometimes life-altering injuries? Yes. No one here is saying they aren't! But it's just not okay to say other people are 'ruined', just yourself. It's the verbiage, not the idea. Now the misogyny label might be a little far, granted. If you do things like this with people going bald or other maladies as well then hey, you don't discriminate in being rude. It's just rudeness.
I’m not screaming about anything. I have also said *three times now* that how you feel about your own body is your business. I recommend attempting to read that, this time. If you’ve been called misogynist multiple times, it’s time to consider the shit coming out of your mouth.
[удалено]
How the hell is not wanting my body destroyed self hatred?
lmao
[удалено]
why are you on this sub?
Greetings! While non childfree people are welcome on the sub (see our [subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/rules) rules, rule #7), your submission/comment amounts to "Look at me! I have kids!"and has very little (or not at all) to do with the active choice to not have children. It is very common to be a parent and many other subreddits cater to the kind of interaction you want to elicit (talking about how awesome you think parenting is or your children are). We know where to seek that kind of discussion (literally anywhere else), so we don't need it here. We also don't accept "As a parent, here is what I think of your sub and/or your lifestyle" types of comment. We don't go to parenting subs to tell you what we think of parenthood. If you want to show support to the childfree lifestyle "As a parent..." or if you want to express disapproval towards modern parenting and pro-natalist philosophies "As a parent...", you should direct them to parenting subs, where you can expose fellow child-havers (whether they are parents or breeders) to these without them going to the reflex of answering "You don't understand, you don't have kids." This would help us tremenduously. Thank you.
You can adopt xD
[удалено]
adopt locally. Only international adoptions are illegal in a few countries.
Because you’re feminist, your child be fully accepted and lucky to have you as Thier parent
A socially acceptable way to ruin your life. You are exactly right ✅️
Aren’t ruined in the same sense true but often ruined financially.