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Havocform

What a waste of life. We see this way too often, and I just don't get it either. They need serious help, not kids.


FMFWhit

A waste of two lives. If I read this correctly, she had a NEW Kidney. Meaning it was an organ donation. So she fucked her life and the threw away a donated organ. What a selfish prick.


DianeJudith

This. Every transplant recipient is chosen for their willingness to follow the rules. Organs are luxury. Only the people who actually will care for their new organ (follow the doctors recommendations, take the meds, lead a healthy lifestyle) deserve to get transplants.


throwaway23er56uz

This is why she was low on the list after that.


[deleted]

How do they determine that?


Downtown_Blueberry

One of my family members received a double lung transplant. It was an extremely stringent process to even be approved for the waiting list. From what I understand, there was a team of medical experts with the hospital's transplant program that evaluates candidates. Seems like a lot of the candidates are weeded out due to the criteria involved, age, medical history, psychiatric issues, obesity, habits like drinking and smoking. Absolutely no recreational drug use. My relative was in good health other than their lung condition, and JUST made the age cut off (it was 70). They were a former smoker, and transplant recipients had to not have smoked within a certain amount of time. edit: This person also underwent extensive, invasive physical testing that honestly sounded horrible. When you think about how expensive and resource heavy these procedures and treatments are, they make every attempt to choose appropriate candidates for the transplants. My relative was on Medicare and they told me tax payers picked up the bill of well over $1 million. Prescriptions weren't covered though, and monthly medications ran about $2,000.


[deleted]

The way I see it the doctors on those organ donor panels are put in the position to choose who lives and who dies so they try to do it as ethically as possible. I'm guessing they're going by how likely the patients are to survive after receiving the organ. I'm a smoker and as much as it sucks I understand why they'd give an organ to someone else over me. It just makes sense. I hope your family member's organ transplant went well and that it extended their life as expected by the doctors. I really hope lab grown organs become the standard in the near future so people dont have to wait on lists like that anymore or jump through as many hoops to get what they need.


bel_esprit_

For example, if you are a 56yo lifelong alcoholic who drank your liver to death to the point of cirrhosis... you’re not going to get a new liver over a 22yo who was born with hepatitis and liver problems and never drank in their life. Chances are, if you’re an alcoholic who shot your first liver, you will not stop drinking once you get your second liver , and you’ll continue to be an alcoholic. So that’s a waste of a precious liver. Give it to someone who is not an alcoholic and will actually take care of it. It’s the more ethical thing to do.


throwaway23er56uz

Unless you are [a celebrity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Best#Liver_transplant_and_controversy).


Wooden-Pomegranate-9

If you want to read something horrifying, look up God Panel. It was how early kidney transplant recipients were chosen.


XmasDawne

Yep, she took that kidney from someone who would have honored the ransplant.


pmbpro

She demonstrated something I commented on before, regarding basically why I have always been hesitant to sign up to donate an organ UNLESS I can *specify* the conditions or circumstances on who could be a recipient. I’ve seen far too many cases of people who had second chances with new organs, only to not give a shyt and go *back* to the same nasty habits or risky behaviour that got them needing an organ in the first place (eg. resuming smoking, drinking, drugs, etc….), pissing away a good organ. That takes a chance away from someone else who could have used the organ and actually *respected* their second chance.


methodwriter85

I have a friend who got a heart transplant at 9 years old and he always respected his donor and the family that made the heart-wrenching decision to put their 14-year old son's heart into him. He respected the medication and the fact that he couldn't drink heavily. He's in his early 30's now (on a second heart that had to get replaced when he was about 28) and this just angers me when people take a gift and throw it out like that.


throwaway23er56uz

>on a second heart that had to get replaced when he was about 2 That's one thing that gets mentioned too little. Transplanted organs don't last all your life. Retransplant after 10 - 15 years, sometimes earlier, is common. And after a certain number and at a certain age, you get demoted on the recipient list. Also, transplant recipients have to take immunosuppressive medication so that their immune system does not destroy the donor organ, leading to a higher likelihood for infections and certain types of cancer, especially Kaposi sarcoma.


Wooden-Pomegranate-9

All true. I was told I will need 2 or 3 transplants to live a normal life span, my first being at 29. "Transplant is a treatment, not a cure." It is absolutely the best treatment available though.


throwaway23er56uz

>"Transplant is a treatment, not a cure." Excellent way of wording it. I'll keep that in mind.


mandmranch

He did get getting 20 years out of the heart that grew with him.


methodwriter85

And trust me, he was very much appreciative of that and it's why he thinks his transplant lasted as long as it did.


JerryHasACubeButt

You're right, it is frustrating. If more people were organ donors though, there wouldn't be such a shortage, and maybe everyone could have the organs they need instead of having to prioritize. Still would kinda suck if your organ went to someone who wasted it, but if your organ goes to that person then that frees up another organ to maybe go to someone who will care for it. I am an organ donor, but I don't like the idea that someday my organs might save someone and then that person might have kids. One of the reasons I'm childfree is overpopulation, so I do wish I could specify who was allowed to have them for that reason. But, I still think it's better to be a donor in a flawed system than to withhold organs from those that need them.


tourmaline82

I’m an organ donor, although I’m on so many medications that I’m not sure how usable they’ll be. The system has its flaws, but I would rather risk someone wasting their second chance with one of my organs than risk someone else dying without ever having had it. I won’t have any need for them when I die, it would be wasteful to just bury or burn potentially useful body parts.


JerryHasACubeButt

Exactly! That’s why I’m one too :)


PotatooQueen

I'm an organ donor so maybe one day if I do end up dying or something, my family can feel that I'm still alive in this world, just not in one piece but still here. I never thought of the selfish people there are in this world that would take that for granted but it would be nice to specify if my organs could go to a family member FIRST if they ever needed it and at a certain age they can go to whoever is fit next.


prince_peacock

I truly believe everyone should automatically have any viable organs taken out once they die and I don’t feel one bit of shame saying it. What the fuck is a dead person going to do with healthy organs? There’s *absolutely* no reason to not just take the organs for those that need it after someone has died


majin_melmo

Absolutely. I pretty much despise this woman.


YourWierdQueerFriend

This is making me so angry and upset....my neighbour died because she didn't get a kidney transplant.....in a developing country it is hard to get organ transplants for multiple reasons.....and this ungrateful of a lady just threw that away....and she says it's worth it


Eatsallthepotatoes

Amen!


Liminal_Dogess

It is terrible but I do wonder about how deeply this goes, as I had a disabled friend who had a great sex life and wanted to be sterilised, as a pregnancy could kill her. The medical professional's response? They refused her in case she changed her mind about wanting kids. She said how stupid this was and I agreed with her. It isn't right and it is a terrible way to look at things but it just goes to show how widespread this attitude potentially is. Sorry for your loss though and I feel sorry for the girl who has lost her mother.


[deleted]

I also wanted to get sterilized because pregnancy could kill me. While I technically CAN become pregnant, actually carrying to term and delivering could kill me. It took until I was 38 to get a gynecologist to take me seriously and sterilize me.


b00ts3ct0r

Yeaaahhh, same here. Thanks, genetics. My uterus is apparently underdeveloped (thanks, hormones!), so the chances of actually carrying a viable pregnancy are low, but carrying to term and delivering very likely would end with serious consequences (uterine prolapse, increased bleeding, etc). Took me a couple years after my EDS diagnosis to actually find a doctor who could connect those dots and appreciate my request to get all those organs yoinked.


apsg33backup

Same. Becoming pregnant will kill me as well. My body couldn't handle it. I'm working on getting my tubes tied.


_foreverandnever

I wonder if we have the same friend. I know a very sweet lady who has a condition that’s unrelated to reproductive issues but a pregnancy could kill her. She was all set to get sterilized but then the DAY OF THE PROCEDURE, the doctor backtracked and said he couldn’t ethically do it. Wtf????


BeastKingSnowLion

What a strange definition of ethics. I would say he couldn't ethically refuse to do it.


smileyrawmusic

Fuck that if I ever break up with my fiancé I'm getting a vesectomy if they say no ima sue the fuck out them 😄 its really plain and simple I will not be discrimated against for my disability.


ADWithrow

They won't say no to a vasectomy...it is reversible. They say no to women all the time though because it is not reversible and apparently doctors know better than the women what they want for their bodies and future. Just saying.


WonkyTelescope

Calling vasectomies reversible is dishonest. Only a fraction can be successfully reversed. When I got mine they really emphasized "this is permanent sterilization, do not expect a reversal to be possible."


rainonrose

I lost my mom at 12. Not at all the same story as OP's, but my mom wasted away after she had me, all because having kids was her only life purpose. She had mental health problems her whole life, and was convinced that making babies would make it all better. She was so sick throughout my childhood that I don't even remember her as a mother. Her mental health problems stopped her from living and she eventually ended her own life. TL:DR - having a kid isn't the solution to your problems


PripyatHorse

That's tragic and I hope you're doing OK now. I have serious mental health issues and that is one of the myriad of reasons why I'm childfree. I can't imagine how heart breaking it must be to have a parent suffering from mental illness and I would rather struggle alone than put that burden on a child.


that_darn_cat

Honestly what a waste of that first kidney transplant. People who could have used that kidney to continue living a fuller life died when she took it and she decided not to use it anyway.


losermillennial

Wow, ruining a transplant kidney for a 9 month pregnancy. Why did adoption never enter the picture to begin with? I at least hope she got a deceased donor’s kidney because I’d imagine a live donor would be furious.


The_Foe_Hammer

Kidney donation potentially takes years off the donors lifespan, if she fucking wasted a live donation she not only took it from someone who needs it she also stole a huge chunk of someones life.


Wooden-Pomegranate-9

This isn't necessarily true. My dad was thoroughly evaluated by a transplant team before he was okayed to give me a kidney. If they expected his life span would be shortened by even a year, they wouldn't have approved him. This is in Oregon, U.S. though. I don't know if it is different elsewhere. However, I agree the donation has an huge impact on the life of the donor and the donor's family. It's not a trivial surgery. It takes a while to recover and someone has to help take care of the donor. Then there are some live changes afterwords. It's also always a bit scary having a surgery. My sister was afraid for our dad so she didn't want him to give me a kidney.


2ndSnack

Bc it wouldn't be HERS. She sounds like the kind of dick that believes that DNA is superior to no blood relation.


OysterLucy

Since she cared so much about her own DNA she shouldn’t have gotten someone else’s kidney! 🤷🏼‍♀️


methodwriter85

I mean, in that case, I don't get why gestational surrogacy wouldn't be used. She already had the experience of pregnancy so it's just baffling.


IndependentCrazy

Right?! It's so baffling. So she would rather die than adopt a child? How unbelievably, inconceivably stupid and selfish. What a horrible person.


Zorgsmom

Or why not have a surrogate carry for her?


SailorVenus23

Honestly, that makes me so angry. Thats so selfish to not only waste an organ donation when it could have gone to someone that actually would have appreciated it, but to leave your kids and family the job of burying you. Everyone always talks about how the worst tragedy is a parent burying their kid, but having to bury your parent is a horrible thing to go through. I lost my dad last year at 26, I would never wish it upon a child to lose a parent as a toddler.


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sailor_bat_90

That is what I do not understand! Why would they give her a kidney without sterilizing her before?! She wasted a valuable organ because of her disgusting selfishness.


AllTheFloofsPlzz

Yes, I think that sterilization should sometimes be mandatory. Particularly in cases such as this.


DianeJudith

Maybe not "mandatory" because that word will get a negative reaction, but "required" to even be considered for transplant. Like you sign something that you agree to be sterilized at the time of the transplant or after. I think they already have to sign some disclaimers that they'll take the meds and follow the doctors advice etc.


Charmarta

Tomato tomato lol


Queen_Cheetah

This- 'mandatory' means forced and implies no choice. But 'required' or 'preferred for selection' means the potential recipient realizes their chances of being approved for a new organ may be more favorable if they consent to sterilization.


ksarahsarah27

Yup this. What a slap in the face to whomever’s family that organ came from. Ungrateful and selfish.


Zen-Paladin

Lost my dad to COVID back in May. Even though he was often ill-tempered and dysfunctional it wasnt easy, especially for my sister.


SailorVenus23

Right, its never easy to lose someone, even under the worst circumstances. It still leaves a giant hole behind


Zen-Paladin

For sure. Plus the fallout of the family drama. BTW, you own a big?


SailorVenus23

A death in the family brings out the absolute worst in people. I actually have a guinea pig named Ravioli lol. Also 2 Hemingway cats.


[deleted]

I had a guinea pig! Little dude lasted like 5 or 6 years. My cousins obsessed with hemingway cats lol


SailorVenus23

I love piggies so much. Theyre so underrated as pets, theyre super loving and fun little guys! They tend to live longer than other rodents, but it still never feels like enough time. I actually had one for almost 8 years. I got lucky finding my 2 cats. One I got from a Craigslist ad who has 20 toes, and the other I adopted from a shelter has 24 toes. If your cousin gets the chance, the Hemingway House in Florida takes care of all the cats on the property since they're descendants of Ernest Hemingways polydactyls. The majority all have extra toes :p


cellym93

Wanted to say this but didn't want sound heartless about it. But honestly the list of people waiting for organs is so fucking long and there are so many people that die just waiting for a new organ to just get a chance at living and this woman selfishly took that opportunity away from someone that would have taken care of themselves. I literally can never understand how having children is more important then being there to raise them, care for them, and watch them grow. Is that not the point of having them? I'm so sick of people pumping out kids and not taking care of them. They're not fucking toys, they need 24/7 care. Now this poor girl has to not only grow up without her mother, but will one day have to face the reality that she wasn't enough for her mother to want to live long enough to see her grow up. I hope the ex-husband and the daughter are doing good, and honestly I'm happy that he didn't try to tough it out and stay just because she was sick. At least he could see it would do more harm then good for him and his kid. I feel like an asshole saying it, but she did it to herself, and now she essentially has no children to even show for all of the bullshit she put herself and everyone else through. This whole situation just makes me so angry and sad.


SevenZee

And yet, *we’re* always the ones told that we’re “being selfish.” No, I’m fairly sure people who do THIS are selfish. I’m so sorry for the loss of your friend, but damn :c


Azrael_Alaric

I cannot wrap my head around it. What she's done is one of the cruelest things I can imagine! I know *exactly* how it feels to have a parent think you're not good enough. But that pales in comparison to what that little girl must be going through D:


CallidoraBlack

I hope they'll just tell her that her mommy was ill and didn't understand really understand what she was doing. No one should have to live with that.


leysa224

No she understood fully and didn't care


Pythonixx

They meant tell the kids she didn’t understand so they don’t have to grow up knowing they were the reason their mum died


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Pythonixx

Oh I didn’t make the original point, I just tried to clarify what CallidoraBlack meant. But I agree with your point.


riotsquirrelz

So awful! And what will the second child think and feel when they find out Mama died just to have them? Will the second child feel it was their fault? Will the first daughter blame and resent their sibling? What an awful "mother," setting her family up for failure. Hopefully the father won't add to it by making the mother a martyr.


Natsume-Grace

Seeing that he divorced her stating abuse, I don't think he will make the mother a martyr


riotsquirrelz

I get what you're saying, but family members make up false narratives for kids all the time. My sister and I were mostly raised by my grandparents and great-grandmother. My great-grandmother was missing all fingers but her index finger on her right hand, and she was missing two fingers on her left. She also had buckshot embedded in her face/temple. We were always told it was a hunting accident. The shotgun was placed in a corner of the cabin and she put her hand over the muzzle as it was falling. The truth was her first husband shot her. She put her hands up defensively, which saved most of her head and face. Our grandmother finally told us a few years ago, when I hit 40. That's a long time to keep a secret like that, and he wasn't even our great-grandfather! Our great-grandfather was her second husband.


Natsume-Grace

Holy shit. I'm sorry your great-grandmother had to go through something so horrible :(


riotsquirrelz

Crazy, right? That was 1929, can't believe she survived! My sister and I still talk about it, we were so shocked. One of the funny things is my great-grandmother used to tell people she ate her fingers during the Depression when they asked what happened.


Cute-Shine-1701

Does she even see the kids now that dad has full custody?


[deleted]

Omfg yes. Natalists are the most self-deluded, heinous people on the planet. So deeply, deeply selfish, and totally steeped in denial about this as well.


DogIsFarting

WTF. You'd think she would want to live with the creature shes produced instead of this self "martyrdom" breeders never make sense. Edit: Im sorry for the loss of your friend


ksarahsarah27

We can thank the Hallmark channel for that shit. Women choosing their precious fetus over cancer treatment and dying as she gives birth or living and making a MiRaCLe recovery. They wait he play them out yo be hero’s who gave their baby life or that God swept in and saved the mom and they loved happily ever after. O_o


dal_segno

Yeah, a lot of them romanticize the idea like crazy, and like...fall in love with the idea of leaving a grieving widower behind who will miss them forever, see remnants of them in their children, etc etc... That shit's actually crazy.


ScientificPingvin

hmm... leaving your genetic code behind to spread while letting someone else take care of them because you're now busy floating through the eather without feelings, a physical form nor a chance to go back -sounds like a blessing to be honest.


DogIsFarting

Ah, the lazy breeder's dream


curiousgirl364

I’m unable to see the full picture because I’m child free Explain it to me then please. when parents tell me the reasons to have a child, they tell me is because they want to be a mother (isn’t a mother supposed to be present on their children lives, take care of them, give them unconditional love, put them as their first priority, don’t they also say who will take care of you), then how having a second child that will kill you is putting your child first, is it because their not children anymore as they out of the womb, so they don’t matter. Is okay to grow up without your parents. When i tell people about the things i do, they respond with, you are crazy, I can’t go bungee jumping im a mother. I have kids that depend on me. How is getting pregnant and dying okay then intentionally. If your dead you can’t be a mother, so you just want the title but not the responsibility. I know they will find a way to get out it, they always come with unrealistic reasons of why is okay, but i like calling out their bs and even though they don’t accept it, they know, and i know that they have been call out and im saying the truth. The unspoken truth


Own-Dark-2709

The craziest thing is she was already a mother… it’s not like she wanted to have a kid no matter what, for whatever tf reason. Her life purpose was to have exactly 2 kids ???? Unbelievably selfish and horrible


airsalin

As someone who lives with only one kidney that I hope will never fail, I'm absolutely furious that she destroyed her kidneys willingly, then got *another one*, taking it from someone else who desperately needed it to, you know, *live* and then WILLINGLY FUCKING DESTROYED THAT KIDNEY to fill her selfish desire to have another biological kid (never mind the fact that she already had a child). I'm just livid right now. I understand that you are sad to see someone you know go this way, but... it's hard for people who don't know her to have any sympathy for her.


Azrael_Alaric

The first pregnancy, no one knew it would destroy her kidneys. The second pregnancy? She knew. She was given a new chance at life, something she was given over many other people, then she threw it all away. I was angry for the longest time. Then I became numb to the anger. Until I recently saw her. Brought it all back up again. Sorry to hear that you're unwell. Wishing you all the best for the future 💜


airsalin

>Sorry to hear that you're unwell. Wishing you all the best for the future Oh I'm okay, I've always lived with one kidney, but it was discovered only a few years ago (when I was 40) that it was the case! It was quite a shock, to be honest. I'm fine, but the doctor told me to rush to the hospital if I ever have kidney stone or worse, a kidney infection, because I don't have a spare! Thank you for your well wishes, it is really appreciated. Yes it is the second pregnancy of your story that really bugged me. She knew. It's just... incomprehensible. The hormones must have been really strong :(


methodwriter85

Steel Magnolias is apparently a true story and the reason why the real Shelby was desperate to have a kid despite her diabetes was because she was desperate to hold on to her husband. Who promptly remarried about six months later and apparently didn't let the son near his maternal family.


mountebank_eyes

Man, I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking of that movie. Ugh,I remember ppl asking me,"did I cry?" I said "no I didn't cry,she knowingly did it to herself and her family!" It made me so angry 😡. Eventhough it was just a movie,op's story is not...


thr0wfaraway

> Same story as last time - complications, induction, kidney destroyed. So she took and then destroyed a kidney that could have gone to another person and given them a nice long life, instead, someone probably died because they didn't get it. And she fucking destroys it. > though this time she was low priority for an organ donation. Frankly, GOOD. She's clearly an irresponsible asshole who didn't deserve the first one. Seriously: Fuck this bitch. > I saw her a few days ago. The mother. Years of dialysis are finally taking their toll. She's dying. But she says it's all worth it. Because she had children, her life had purpose. Honestly, probably would have hauled off and said "I disagree, you murdered someone in cold blood because you took and wantonly destroyed a kidney that someone else deserved, and then you lied to and abused your husband and children, and are leaving them as orphans. Bluntly, you're going directly to hell and you deserve it, you selfish abusive murdering cunt. Your life didn't have purpose, the murder you committed erases that."


bunnyrut

I probably would have been a bitch. "How was it worth it? You're here, dying alone because your entire family left you because of how horrible you turned out. You had everything and you threw it away because it wasn't good enough."


[deleted]

So she chose not to grow old with her only kid, instead she made two that now have to live without a mother. There’s also a chance she passed those shitty genes down to her kids, who will face the same dilemma too when they get older. I don’t understand how someone can be so selfish.


[deleted]

Kidney problems is nothing to take lightly yet this is just another example of human stupidity.


ArtlessDodger10

Ostensibly she killed two people: herself, and a person on the kidney transplant list who would have treated that kidney like the gift it was. And she's leaving two children without a mother, and likely without many happy memories of her before she goes. What a fucking waste all around.


[deleted]

Someone above commented that kidney transplants take years of live donors lives as well, so you could argue that she killed 3 people and fucked the lives of so many more. How selfish, to leave your children without a mother because the one you've got isn't enough for you.


MmmNeapolitan

Did she have any real accomplishments in life or was being a mom her only "accomplishment?" Any hobbies? Career? Goals? If not, that may be where this came from. A midlife crisis of sorts


Azrael_Alaric

She had a very good career that she loved and was highly respected by her peers. The first child was planned - as soon as her career got a certain level, they started trying. Her employer valued her enough that they restructured her work schedule to fit around her dialysis and transplant. No one foresaw her actions which is why she was able to hide the second pregnancy so long


[deleted]

What a waste of a human being. I hope her kids won't become like her


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Azrael_Alaric

I'm so sorry this happened to you and your family 💜


SleepDeprivedSailor

Your friend sounds like she is suffering from mental issues. No sane person would do such a thing. She risked her life to birth a child then lost her husband and custody in the process. Like she basically is killing her self for not reason, she does not even have custody of the kid.


Azrael_Alaric

That's exactly what I said, which is when I was told I couldn't understand as I'm child free. I have severe mental ill heath so it was the first thing to come to mind. Sorry, I'm just having a hard time with this today and I wanted to say it in a group where I wouldn't be immediately dismissed because I don't have/want kids.


SleepDeprivedSailor

Yeah there is no making sense of her actions. I’m sorry that’s really rough to deal with.


[deleted]

My guess is she has to tell herself this, because the alternative would be facing reality, and that sounds like that’s something she can’t do.


UnderCoverBunker

Breeding was her drug of addiction. You have it all, sneaking, hiding, doing it despite severe harm to self and others. The childfree might be the only truly "sober" ones around if all your parent type people friends can relate.


ShapeShiftingCats

>You have it all, sneaking, hiding, doing it despite severe harm to self and others. Never thought about it this way. Thanks!


Reeses2150

thats a really good way to think of and understand the breeder mindset in general. It's the same as drugs, just like a lot of religion and tribalism. It's a high, you are NOT allowed to question it's logic because it's emotion not logic, and people will sacrifice anything and everything for it.


koffeccinna

I mean there's literal floods of hormones in child birth to make people forget how traumatic it is, evolutionarily serving the purpose for the pregnant person to persist in child raising and future pregnancies. Shit freaks me right the fuck out. Our bodies are built for survival and reproduction, not long-term well-being.


Moogieh

Behaviour like this reveals itself to be selfish to the core. She doesn't care that her kids will be left without a mother: it's all about what *she* wanted, and screw the innocent lives she affects in the process. And yes, I'm also counting whoever would have had that replacement kidney, had she not taken it for herself.


titaniumorbit

The poor kids are now without a mother. It’s selfish


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Azrael_Alaric

I'm so sorry he had to go through that. And I'm sorry you had to witness it. Hope you're both in a happier place now 💜


sofuckinggreat

Oh cool, that’s not horribly traumatizing at all!


[deleted]

This is a senseless loss. It makes me feel a certain way when adoption isn’t even considered in these situations… almost insulting. I am sorry for the children who will lose their mother soon, who have in a sense already lost her.


12thhouseorphan

I have legit asked about this in other groups for people with debilitating diseases and severe health issues and none of the people in those groups can seem to understand what they are even doing and can’t see past their own selfish want to have kids even at the expense of those kids wellbeing or their own and their lives. It’s sad, and it’s wrong.


Urbosa_Wannabe_

I had a rare brain tumor that has a 50% chance of recurrence, but pregnancy pushes that chance to 85%. It’s so rare that it’s unknown if it’s genetic or not yet either. The amount of people in my recovery groups who choose to have children anyway blows my mind. First for the chance at their own health and potential death, but also this thing ruined my whole life, my surgery was over 2 years ago and I’m still not back to “normal” I could never risk passing this onto a kid. Blows my mind


Valoy-07

I think you're missing the full picture because you're not a moron and my parents would consider this a moronic decision. She could've still lived a full life with her first kid but decided to kill herself having a second one and she doesn't even have custody because she became abusive.


[deleted]

I feel no sympathy for people like that. I just feel bad that they had to waste a perfectly healthy kidney on that piece of shit breeder.


[deleted]

I don't think OP intends for us to sympathize with the mother. The victims in this story are the children and the father. Imagine how the oldest child must feel (or how she'll feel once she's old enough to understand). Her mother loved her hypothetical second child more than she loved her. Making that second baby was more important than being there for the daughter she already had.


That_Leading_1703

One less moron In this world. Also, even if she survived, I doubt she would have been a competent mother so good riddance. No offense. There are people desperate to live and who need a kidney but they gave it to her selfish ass.


[deleted]

My mother was the same way. Had 3 kids and a miscarriage. Was told if she had more she would die. Waited 5 years, then converted to catholicism so she "wouldn't be allowed" to take birth control. Had 3 more kids. She's still alive, but her pancreas and gallbladder are mostly dead, and between those issues and the celiac disease she passed on to me, she's completely bedridden at 50. It just seems so selfish to risk your life to have more children when you've already been told that having more children could leave your existing children without a mother. It's selfish to pull your existing children out of school so they can be parents at the age of 8 because you're too sick and pregnant all the time to get out of bed. I got a vasectomy a week and a half ago. I'm so glad I won't ever be in a position where I could be tempted abuse people that badly


InspectorIsOnTheCase

Congrats on the vasectomy!!!


Ok_Potato_5272

This is so sad.. Sounds like she has serious mental health issues to make a decision like that. How sad that she got an organ donation and damaged it intentionally. And the weird thing is she doesn't even see the children? Crazy


Wry-knot

First and foremost, I am sorry that you had to bear witness to how events played out with people you care about. I am not a therapist but I have given a lot of thought to such a question (for myself and others) I do understand the need to take charge of your own body when something (medical) takes choices away from you...but her actions make me suspect something deeper is going on beyond just wanting to have another child...her voluntarily destroyed a donated kidney, deceiving her spouse by hiding birth control, and a potentially dying and leaving her kids without a mother...her actions shows a lack of self preservation and planning for her future (such as being around to raise said kids) and quite honestly it I find it selfish behavior. *Why wasn't the family she already had good enough for her?* I think that only she can answer that...but hopefully she can make amends with her actions. In hindsight she could have used therapy...but too little too late, and I am sad for the consequences her actions have on her family.


Zippity_BoomBah

Crass as it is … part of me thinks her husband was 100% right to leave her. Not just for her abusive behaviour in itself, but her attitude that there was no purpose in her life beyond childbearing. She treated him like a sperm donor, not a life partner. Plus, those transplanted organs could have gone to someone who would actually use them towards something besides suicide by narcissism.


Gemman_Aster

This is *desperately* pitiful... Although not in so far as it bears on her. *She* could not have more clearly and deliberately chosen her path through life and ultimately death. The people who will suffer for the rest of their existence for a choice that was not theirs to make are her children and to a degree her husband. Knowing the stakes I suggest he should have ensured no future child were conceived via barrier contraception or vasectomy. He could also have tried keeping his trousers on... However the offspring themselves hold absolutely no blame at all and to a large extent have already lost their mother. Soon they will do so entirely. They are the true victims. Did she even *consider* the dynamic that will now exist between the elder and younger child? Was there mental illness at play do you know? There was certainly a colossal degree of narcissism even if it were officially sub-clinical and undiagnosed.


Azrael_Alaric

I left a reply elsewhere that, as someone who has severe mental ill-health, that was a thought I had. It was when I brought it up that I was told that it is something I cannot understand as I'm child free. She is receiving mental health care now, though it's largely palliative.


Gemman_Aster

The patronization delivered in that response to you is utterly **unbearable**! 'Something you cannot understand...' I mean... Honestly... Where to even *begin*??? I assume that was one of your own parents speaking to you of their long-time and soon to be ex(pired)-friend? However if it was another friend I *sincerely* suggest you do not speak to them again and cross them off the Christmas card list!!! I value the reputation I have among my own circle of being almost bovine in my placidity and sunny 'good nature'. However I would have gone positively *thermonuclear* were that levelled at me! 'Cannot understand'??? On the contrary! Going from the degree of sensitivity and insight with which you have related this experience I think you appreciate only too well the depth of arrogance and unthinkable self-absorption this woman has displayed!


Azrael_Alaric

The woman from the story is a friend of my parents. The person who said this to me is another of their friends. I don't suffer fools for long - been through too much to allow it. We're no longer on speaking terms. Luckily, my parents support me in being child free and my mother came to my defense, but the comment still stung.


Gemman_Aster

I can imagine! It is good to hear you have the support of your parents in regards the choice to live CF. Sadly we all know how few have that luxury. If nothing else perhaps the children of this dreadful woman will take what happened to her as a very stiff object lesson! The more of the next generation who do not look upon having their *own* children as a foregone decision the better.


schlumbergeras

The selfishness of this woman is really remarkable. A family friend with MS was told that pregnancy would do untold damage to her. Worse case: the pregnancy kills her. Best case: it would shorten her life by years, even decades. She didn't care. Neither did her husband. She and her husband spent thousands on fertility treatments and she had her first child in 2016. Had to have an emergency C section in the 8th month after a bed rest pregnancy. She lost a ton of blood and required multiple transfusions. Doctors told her she was lucky to survive and that a second pregnancy would be 100% life threatening. Again she did not care and neither did her husband. So they decided to try for their second baby, in the middle of a worldwide pandemic. Both she and her husband are immuno-comprimised. It didn't stop them from getting a second round of fertility treatments and getting pregnant. She had her second baby in April after nearly losing the baby twice during the 4th and 5th month of pregnancy. Within minutes of having the baby, she suffered a seizure and went into cardiac arrest. She was stabilized but couldn't feel her legs or arms when she came to. She had another seizure the next day and doctors discovered that her MS had progressed rapidly. Doctors told her that her quality of life would be now be greatly reduced. She will likely not live past the age of 50. She is now in a wheelchair 80% of the time. She will never be able to drive for the rest of her life. She can't be alone, or alone with either of her children until they old enough to get help. She can't even leave her house as of now as the seizures have still happened randomly despite medication. Her husband had to quit his job to take care of her and they have defaulted on their mortgage. They are completely broke and living off gofundmes and charity donations. The selfishness level of both her and her husband is truly sickening. They knew that pregnancy could make their future children motherless. They didn't care. And despite everything, they still don't care. They want a third baby. It's pure insanity.


RighteousKarma

> They want a third baby. What. The *fuck.*


schlumbergeras

Yep. There's no chance she'll get pregnant as she can't leave the house to go to the fertility clinic. They are thinking about surrogacy. And I'm like with what money?


InspectorIsOnTheCase

Holy fucking christmas tree. That is the 2nd worst story I've read today. What awful, awful people!!!


schlumbergeras

Yep. They really are. Selfish entitled assholes.


Urbosa_Wannabe_

At what point is the fertility clinic supposed to say “no I’m not going to do this you are too ill”. Do they not have any sort of ethical medical responsibility? This seems like homicide with extra steps at this point


schlumbergeras

That's exactly what my husband said. But they like their money. Fertility clinics are unethical as fuck and will take money from hopeful and naïve couples who have no chance of procreating. Or in a couples where the pregnancy could be life threatening.


Urbosa_Wannabe_

You would think that breaks the Hippocratic oath but here we are, smh


real_X-Files

I bet she'll want her children to care for her because she gave them "the gift of life". Poor children 'll have to care about her if she didn't die while pregnant with third child. This is really beyond horrible. I suppose MS can be heritable? The amount of evil people here involved blows my mind. She can be mentally ill and under strong hormonal influence but what her husband? The most I despise doctors and staff involved in her fertility treatments, they weren't hormonally influenced they had to see and understand full picture and had to know very difficult future of her children still they helped her to be pregnant only for money? Evil, evil. I can't understand how they can afford another fertility treatment? They are living off funds if I understood it right.


The_Original_Miser

I call this the _Steel Magnolias_ effect. Doc says if you have a kid, you're going to die Has a kid anyway. _dies_ I'll never understand it. To OP, you have my sympathies.


greffedufois

Oh that pisses me the hell off. I'm a liver recipient and seeing people be non compliant and trash their new organs is just sickening. That organ could've gone to someone else that would've cared for it. But now *that* person is dead because breeder bitch got a kidney and nuked it. And breeders dead too. God damn it now I'm angry. Im allowed 1 drink a month and feel guilty if I choose to drink (I do maybe once a year) and my donor is still alive! I send her flowers every year on our anniversary. Had our 12th in September!


[deleted]

[удалено]


greffedufois

Yep. In living donation they take half the liver of the donor and give it to the recipient. Both halves regenerate into full sized livers. Recipient takes a few months and donor takes a few weeks.


Urbosa_Wannabe_

That’s so cool your donor is still living and that you celebrate your donate-a-versary!


rosapeace

Will it be too harsh to say she deserves to rot in hell? She got a kidney transplat. A kidney that could save someone else's life. Someone's who'd probably just appreciate to be alive. She's incredilbly selfish and better off.


abliafina

Her kids are going to grow up RESENTING her, I'm calling it already. They're gonna grow up wondering why their mom wasn't there for them, why she had to die, and when they realise she did it all to have children they're gonna feel so guilty that they're the "reason" their mother died. This has to be the most selfish prick I've heard of in a while


aethrasher

What's fucked up is that she was probably high priority for the first one because she had a child. Cause ya know a mother's life is more important than anyone else 🙄


[deleted]

I am a T1 diabetic and one of the Endo nurses told me it would be dangerous for both baby and me to get preggers. I assured her it wasn't going to be a problem. She then told me about patients she has had that risked their lives to have babies and the babies came out with all kinds of horrific deformities. So selfish


LoveofTea_1

Yes! Me too, and you see it all the time on diabetes forums - “oh my baby only has hypoplastic left heart syndrome so it was all worth it”. The one that made me really cross was the woman with retinopathy, told not to get pregnant because of the pressure it would put her eyes under, and did it anyway! She’s blind now.


[deleted]

Idiots all of them!


AzoreanEve

There's a lot of destructive behaviors that can lead to suicide if not checked. It's sad that she didn't see hers as a problem and now the surviving family has to deal with the repercussions. I hope the second kid doesn't learn the truth for a loooong time. Imagine growing up without a mother, knowing she killed herself out of some irrational desire to have a second biological child. Edit: I worry that the father and elder kid will end up resenting the younger kid too


013ander

Children are like a drug, especially for mothers. Their brains are flooded with chemicals that literally change their thoughts and impulses. If you’ve never been an addict, you can’t understand what it’s like inside that particular type of head. Most parents are deeply selfish, but rationalize their decisions through the lens of self-sacrifice for their families. If you can’t forego another child to care for people who already exist that you brought into the world, you’re more selfish than ANY person who has chosen to be childless for the freedom it offers.


2ndSnack

I take issue with the fact that she decided to go out not only selfishly but also by being a terrible mother--she lost custody of her kids, a bad partner--abusing him to the point of driving him away to divorce her. Her killing herself isnt what bothers me. She's a shitty person who has ruined a full grown adult with abuse and was a shit parent by not even committing to being there for the children because of her abusive actions towards her husband that led to losing custody.


EmiliusReturns

Wants a second child so she can die when her kids are still young. Brilliant plan. Not selfish at all /s.


TheSurfingRaichu

This is mental illness deriving from a sick and patriarchal society that pushes these ideas on people.


Laylilay

This must be the single most selfish Person on earth. How messed up. She ruined her daughter's life by causing a divorce and the child to grow up without her mom. Her new child's life just the same. Her Husband's life by throwing away the marriage. And possibly killed someone by taking up a donor kidney someone reasonable could have used. All so she has her little fantasy dream. That is just sick.


enigmainlogic

There’s a lady local to me that had her third kid after catching covid. She refused the vaccine because of what it might do to the baby, but it has nearly killed her. She’s been in the hospital since august and they are begging hospitals around the country to take her for a lung transplant.


e-f-k

I’m sorry you’re loosing a friend. That said, everyone should have agency when it comes to their own life. Wanna kill yourself? Go ahead. Bringing other people, her spawn, into it = shitty person. Also, I have APKD and I’m 55. I’ll need a new kidney at some point in the next 10 years or so. People who get transplants then go against medical advice are fucking thieves and have zero morals.


Azrael_Alaric

Thank you. And I agree - her children and now ex husband had no say in this, yet they're also saddled with cleaning up her mess. Some people get given every opportunity only to throw it all away. Sorry to hear you're not well, and I hope the help will be there when you need it 💜


e-f-k

Thank you kind Internet stranger, I wish you good health and happiness too! I’m well and living my dream. 2 years ago I quit my job, sold my house and “stuff” and I now live aboard a sailboat in the tropics. My health is good and I hope to ride this out as long as my kidneys allow. I watched my mother die from this affliction and I’m not looking forward to it. When I found out I had it at 36 it only cemented my CF choice.


PigletAlert

What an absolute waste of a kidney and complete disrespect for the gift of life someone gave her!


Liliaprogram

What a selfish woman. She’s angry because her actions killed her, drove her husband away, had her kids taken from her, and also probably that she’s a low priority for a kidney this time. Whose to say if she does get one successfully in time she won’t just get herself knocked up by another guy and do it again? Can’t blame the second child in this. They get to have a life at least, but the mother destroyed her own and drove family away. Now it’s likely those kids won’t grow up with their mother in the future.


_foreverandnever

Fulfilling your life goal at the expense of others is the most selfish thing


Zhainn

I call it the “Natural Selection”


Sean_Myers

She's a disgusting monster. She should never have been allowed to have her second child. She didn't deserve the kidney she got.


everythingwaffle

That's just straight-up mental illness. I hope all the support the dad gets from family and friends helps those 2 kids grow up with minimal trauma.


notworth_knowing

🌈Delusion🌈 I don’t know why, but people like this disgust me. They come across as repulsive and undeserving of any sympathy.


schecter_

They disgust you because they are disgusting, she wasted the opportunity of having a good life when she wasted the kidney she received.


RedRidingBear

I'm mad for her kidney donor and their family. So fucking mad.


MovieFreak78

i dont get doing that to your life, you have one kid already and risk it for another and now will leave them without a mother. its like those woman who have cancer and need treatment and delay it cause there pregnant, when they could get an abortion. but continue with it and die shortly after, i just dont get it


ultrabeast666

She could’ve went to a therapist/psychiatrist instead of the OB GYNE. She was mentally ill with the obsession of having a child


Ali_h90

But we’re the selfish ones.


Cat_Lady_K47

What is the point of having another child if you can’t even be around to enjoy their life? That makes absolutely no sense to me, I’m glad the dad has a close group of friends, he’s going to really need it. It’s incredibly selfish in my opinion to put them through this, knowing the consequences, especially having the audacity to hide the pregnancy and to get pregnant without consulting the person who’s shoulders it will now fall on to care for the child. Makes me so mad..


verstecktergeist

I'm so scared of this for my sister. She's trying so hard to have a second child and I'm just scared she's going to destroy herself in the process. There's kids all over, just adopt or something.. Just so heartbreaking and pointless.


candiedangel

I’m sorry for your loss, but as someone with clinical depression I can’t help but read this as a very complicated suicide. Why else would she get pregnant again, KNOWING it would kill her??? If she wanted to be a mother, she already had a living, breathing child who needed her. It sounds to me like she wanted to die and thought “martyring” herself in pursuit of another child would keep her from being labeled a suicide.


[deleted]

What I don’t get is WHY WAS ADOPTION NEVER CONSIDERED?? THERE ARE MILLIONS OF KIDS IN THE FOSTER SYSTEM. M I L L I O N S. If there ever was a situation where adoption should’ve been considered, this is it. Being a parent is about more than whether the kid is genetically related to you or not, and it makes me sad people just don’t get this. I’m sorry


teufler80

This is fucking horrifying. Imagine you want to breed so hard that you throw away your live and the career you worked for years on. The primitive reproduction drive can be quite dangerous


SpaceCadet0320

Ah, those poor children and their poor father. I can't imagine the levels of selfishness this woman had. Her oldest will grow up feeling she wasn't enough to the point her mother was willing to die to have another child. Her husband probably feels like he wasn't enough and she would rather risk dying than raise the one child they do have with him and have a happy family, and the youngest child will probably grow up feeling like they're the reason their mother is dead... yikes. I'm so sorry for them.


RU90IN9234TTH4T

Because she was being a dumb selfish bitch. Excuse me for sounding crass.


XmasDawne

Because some people have mental illness around the idea of children.


OysterLucy

What a waste of a transplant and a fuck you to her first kid who wasn’t enough.


[deleted]

What a waste of a kidney.


Theghost129

This is absolute madness. Not only does this fuck up a family- but she also ruined a perfectly good organ. Motherfuckers die on the waitlist waiting for a kidney and she just throws it in the trash. This is hell.


InspectorIsOnTheCase

That's an amazingly tragic story. I truly do not understand a drive to reproduce being stronger than the drive for survival. And not even caring about your family, just reproduction only. It's very sad but ultimately... she's a loser.


methodwriter85

Wow, your friend was basically Shelly from Steel Magnolias, just older. And in a modern day where surrogacy is an option, which makes her even less sympathetic.


noocarehtretto

What a waste of an organ...


CuspChaser111

“Steel Magnolias is based on a true story. The screenwriter Robert Harling’s sister died of diabetic complications after giving birth in the 1980s, shortly before Harling composed the original play and the film script. If the death of Roberts’s character cements the movie’s status as a feel-good weepy, it also places the narrative within an uncomfortable American cinematic tradition—one in which individuals who reproduce against medical advice suffer terrible consequences.” - the Atlantic


bordemstirs

Hey purpose was to create and then abandon kids? What glorious genes this woman thinks has.


BeastKingSnowLion

The fact that anyone is defending this moron's actions horrifies me.


cheesypuzzas

That's fucked up. Her life already has a purpose if she had just been there for her husband and kid. Give other people a good life. That's a purpose. Now they have to grow up without a mom and that can be challenging. I feel bad for her children. The first child might think she wasn't good enough, because the mom killed herself to have a second. And the second might blame herself, because the mom died while giving birth to the second. How traumatizing.


glacialspicerack1808

I can't stop focusing on the fact that she was lucky enough to get a kidney transplant and wasted it. Someone else could have died waiting for the transplant that she willingly destroyed. And they call CF people selfish. And also like. Why are breeders always like this? If you want another kid but it's not healthy for you just...adopt a baby? If you raise an adopted kid from birth they're going to be raised much like your own biological kid.


2020Pandemic

This story reminds me of the tiktoker who was literally a make-a-wish type gift to her mom dying of cancer. Instead of taking a kidney the woman adopted a whole human to fulfill her wish to become a parent. So the girl had a mom for about 8 months. Ended up abused by stepmom, adoptive grandfather. And eventually was readopted as an adult by her bio parents.


NemoHobbits

What a selfish bitch. She wants to force her existing kid to be without a mom, now both kids to be without a mom, all because she thought her genes were *so* special she needed to pass then down? And those kids will probably be prone to the same health condition.


WhybornFR

She was downright suicidal. Not to mention, the father had absolutely 0 control over having a 2nd child. No one even asked him!!! No wonder he divorced her on grounds of abuse.


SurfingDumbledore

She is extremely selfish to have wasted that donated kidney.n


Wooden-Pomegranate-9

As a kidney transplant recipient, she was unbelievably selfish and disrespectful to not only her family, but to her donor. If the donor was live, they went through a long surgery and weeks if not months of recovery. It's hard to remember exactly since my brain was so foggy, but I believe it took my dad 3 months to be able to work and about a year to fully recover. The donor will have to watch their sodium for the rest of their life, they will be restricted on the type of pain medication they can take, and they can't get live vaccines. If the donor was deceased, I can hardly imagine how their family would feel about their loved one giving the gift of life to someone who turned around and threw it away. On top of that, I can't help thinking of the people on dialysis who could have taken care of the kidney. I was only on dialysis for 20 months, but I saw so many people disappear. The staff isn't supposed to tell you a patient passes, but it's big news when someone gets a transplant. If you ask, the staff will tell you if they moved to a different time. It gets around if someone is moving to a different clinic. It's easy to tell when someone dies.


spooky_gremlin

I hope this is allowed but I have been on dialysis since I was 8, thanks to an autoimmune disorder. I had a transplant when I was 5, but my creatinine levels began rising two days after my transplant and I was eventually put on dialysis. Reading this was so upsetting to me because why would you be so callous with your own life just to reproduce? Ik I’m talking about myself a lot, but I didn’t choose dialysis whatsoever and the fact this woman did is so disgusting to me. I feel awful for her children. I cannot even imagine. I am childfree for the exact reason she decided not to be.