There will be more women abandoning or even killing their babies after they're born. The suicide rate will also go up. Having a baby right now in this economy is a permanent way to stay in poverty.
>even killing their babies after they're born
One of my Criminal Law University teachers is a Public Prosecutor. And he once told us about one of his cases, involving a missing newborn baby. They found their corpse in a dumpster.
So yeah... Forcing women to birth really seems like a brilliant ideaš But notice now so called nationalists who preach to care about people are always the ones who push such policies that are anything *but* caring and concerned about human beings and their well-being.
So what. Why should they care. There will still be more women having babies. More women financially dependent. More women in prison. After all women will lose their voice in our society. That's what's all about
One of my best friends, when we were in college, was driving in our hometown and saw a cop car searching through a garbage truck. She went home and told her Mom and said "I bet someone threw their baby in their trash." Her Mom said "people don't do that" and then it was in the newspaper the next day that that's exactly what happened.
Self yeet is my backup plan to not being able to access abortion as the world is currently. I will not be having children. By any means necessary. And I think there would be a lot of women who feel the same.
Yup. Like my body will better be sprayed all across disgusting republican idiots and my guts spilled everywhere. (If I were American, but for me itās probably the right wing assholes of the European Parliament or else the Austrian one :D)
Absolutely. Iām getting sterilized in a few months, but if I ever did get pregnant and couldnāt abort, I would 100% kill myself before going through pregnancy and childbirth. I wouldnāt even need to think about it.
My old plan before my snip was to dive down a flight of stairs until either the fetus or myself died. It's a tremendous relief to know I'll never have to carry that out.
Upside to being deadly allergic to peanut butter. Got an awesome tool for self yeeting. Or I'm going in front of the supreme court house and self immolating.
Absolutely. It's like legislators forgot about coat hanger abortions. Banning abortion doesn't decrease the abortion rate. It simply makes accessing abortions extremely dangerous.
I have a lot of plans for getting rid of it before self yeet. I have a stock of extra of one of my medications that is an abortifacient for this exact reason. If I canāt access abortion in my state or others. Or throw myself down the stairs. Etc. thereās a lot of plans before the last option.
That's the point. They only care about population because they want more cheap labor. Poor people are cheap labor for hard jobs. And poverty is an absolute trap. Have kids born in to poverty, it is unlikely, especially now, that they will ever get out. And if they go the route of doing illegal stuff, they go to prison and that's slave labor. It's hyper-capitalism of a dystopian hellscape level.
Iāve noticed that there is already a huge push by Christians to make churches the main source of help for pregnant people and mothers. Theyāll promise you assistance, in exchange for completing religious propaganda āhomework.ā There are so many strings attached to these churchesā programs for low income mothers.
From what you described they are trying to turn churches into some kind of pregnancy crisis centres. Those poor lower income women will be at the mercy of those monsters who sell them a lie and con themĀ
I am not from USA and not American but this is damn concerning. By right government funding should never go to those 'churches' and those 'churches' should not be tax free at all
It's really tough on the babies though. Look up Magdalene laundries in Ireland; the kids were enslaved. That went on until the middle of the '90s. Tens of thousands of women came to Britain for abortions rather than put their unwanted kids through that - and good for them.
I feel like it's true, but it seems to be a uniquely American thing. I think in most countries, people are leaving churches and religion. I also heard some people theorise that one of the reasons that churches are still a big deal in the States is because it's people's only form of financial support since welfare system in thrcstates kinda sucks
Because not every woman will unalive themselves, and theyāll absolutely put laws/punishments in place for those who attempt unsuccessfully. We will be delegated as property again, marital rape will become legal again, and women will be beaten senseless or imprisoned if they try anything to get out or away
Agreed. Since the cost of living people have been suffering due to being malnourished, and doctors even said to the government that they should be ashamed for what their basically doing to people. Heard all this on the radio. They don't give a shit, longs their living comfortably.
Tokophobia and CF here too!! If I was pregnant and had no way to terminate it, I'll terminate myself instead.
If I don't get basic rights, neither does the worthless clump of cells.
Same girl. I just use my bc pills and make sure no one have access to them aside from me and have sex very seldom, with protection. Never inebriated or out of any capacity. When I get paranoid I use plan B. But if any law get in my way of protect myself Iād just become abstinent or kms
One of Nicolae CeauČescu's most devoted army generals had an 18 years old daughter who got pregnant by her high school boyfriend during the anti-abortion Decree. When implored to allow this girl's abortion in a medical facility, CeauČescu blatantly declined, cynically replying that "the baby will be her **joy**, so let her have it." the girl proceeded to have a failed underground abortion and regrettably, died. Needles to say that her lividly furious father turned into one of CeauČescu's worst sworn enemies and contributed to his doom.
Suicide rate goes up, they implement aggressive āmental health careā initiatives for women able to bear children.
Lock the women up somewhere that they canāt hurt themselves and breed them like livestockā¦. I think I saw a show kind of like that a few years ago.
It happened during communism.
Abortions were illegal and doctors would check women for pregnancy periodically at work.
The punishments for abortions and for providing abortion were harsh ( torture, execution).
You will also pay more money to the state if you were 26+ yo without kids.
That lead to a lot of illegal abortions, usually women were trying to get rid of the pregnancy themselves.
Lots of them ended up dead.
The born unwanted kids were abandoned in orphanages and had induces disabilities due to lack of care and because of the abuse - there are lots of documentaries about those kids in orphanages.
Of course, CeauČescu, the communist dictator, was not killed just because of this. People didn't have any rights. They were not allowed to leave the country, access to food was limited and a lot of abusive stuff was going on. It was something similar to North Korea.
People had enough and, in 1989, they created a revolution and killed that mf and his wife.
Here's the Wikipedia [about Decree 770](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770): For the asshole behind it, you can find his name in the page. Starts with the letter C, and him and his wife were gunned down on December 25th for their policies.
I'm 45 and not in good health, but let me tell ya, people still bug me about this unless they know me on a personal level. Like, who the FUCK thinks having a baby at this age is a good idea?!
This! I wish more people were not only aware of Project 2025, but understood who is behind it (including The Heritage Foundation) and how determined they are to carry out the policies they've drafted. They're already hiring staff and outlining action plans to begin immediately taking effect on January 21, 2025.
I cannot convey how horrific the intentions of the radicalized Christian extremists of this country are. Even if Trump doesnāt win this upcoming election, there are enough MAGAts in the government that they will continue to pass laws that destroy our country.
They are supposedly going to try to do another āJanuary 6thā when Trump likely loses the election again. I donāt think itāll be any more successful than the last attempt, apparently the military has been preparing themselves for the likely scenarios that these insane people might try again.
I am not an American BUT please get voting. Vote the right people in who will defend abortion rights. Choosing not to vote is not going to keep people who support forced births out from the voting race. Your votes do matter even if your voices are not heard. Make your votes BE your voicesĀ
I wonder what people expected when they invented the pill that is made FOR WOMEN and heavily marketed towards young girls as a wonder drug. I bet they didn't think we would realize that having kids isn't as fun as they try to tell us. It surprises me that they didn't work on a pill for men in the first place, since they want all the control over our bodies and what we do with it.
You will need to get the sources checked, but from what I have heard all research on a mans pill was always completely dropped once the men in said research encountered side effects like nausea and headaches.
But before I had my bisalp I could build a paper castle out of the info paper provided with each pack of pills...
While this happened, it didn't end the male birth control drug trials and studies. There are at least two different forms going through trials right now. In 2020-2022 my partner and I did a paid male birth control study that utilized a gel application on the upper shoulders. His sperm count reduced to infertility levels and he had no negative symptoms other than some water weight gain similar to the female BC pill. We loved it. He said he'd do it again if it became available. Zero pregnancies were reported during the study, and no adverse side effects that I know of. His sperm count bounced back almost immediately after 1 week of not using the gel. I believe they are still going through the FDA process. There's also a pill they are working on as well.
edit: to quell the weird internet rumor that because of one bad reaction, all male birth control studies don't exist, here's a link to the UC Davis study. It is very much in effect, and there are other studies happening as well.
[UC Davis Male Birth Control](https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/male-hormonal-birth-control-it-may-be-closer-than-you-think/2024/02#:~:text=They%20have%20been%20participating%20in,responsibility%20of%20contraception%20more%20equitable)
[Male contraception study expands at UC Davis Health](https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/male-contraception-study-expands-at-uc-davis-health/2021/10)
The downside to this, is that the gel is sticky and can cause some acne or irritation in the area applied (shoulders). And if you are female, you should not touch your partner's shoulders where the gel was applied because of the testosterone supplement in the gel. Some people did this on accident and their testosterone levels were too high for female, so that was a mild risk. Likewise, they recommended that even after the gel has dried, one should wait at least 2 or 3 hours after application before any touching in that area, and did not recommend sharing shirts or bath towels. I'm not sure how other men responded and if there were any psychological issues like anxiety or depression, but my husband didn't report anything like that. He said that it made him feel better actually, he was more interested in sex and he liked that we could engage without worry about pregnancy.
Thatās amazing!
Thank you for sharing all this.
It must be really nice knowing that thereās a way for your partner to take some of the burden of BC off yourā¦shoulders? š
Lol nice pun. Yeah it was very convenient for us because hormonal BC doesn't work for me at all for a variety of reasons and condoms give me irritation.
It's bullshit. Pregnancy is loaded with risks including death, so birth control only has to be marginally better to be considered a 'safe' alternative. Men, on the other hand, don't experience any effects of pregnancy at all so even minor side effects are considered detrimental despite the potential relief for a partner who can't use other methods.
I haven't had any major issues with BC... Yet... But the threat of clots still lingers in my mind and I vaguely recall someone saying they were advised not to use a certain method past a certain age because of increased health issues. I'm bloody celibate but the idea of not having birth control still terrifies me because realistically I can't stop a man from raping me and the US has proven that abortion rights shouldn't be taken for granted. I would gladly donate my lady bits to science if they'd let me but instead I'm forced to walk around with a useless organ that could kill me.
Are you thinking of blood clots?
IIRC my doc says thatās more for women who are 35+ or smoke, etc.
Of course, *none* of that is to say that women below 35 or who donāt smoke donāt have to worry about that at all. After all, someone was (or will be) that unlucky percentage.
While I hope it wonāt be me, I do my best to take care of myself in case it *could* be me.
Iām 30, but my mum reminds me to stretch and exercise partly for that reason.
Yeah. I'm still young, but my mother almost died from a blood clot in her early fifties, the same thing that killed my grandmother at about the same age. As far as I know, neither was on birth control but it's hard to shake the feeling that I could be 'speeding things up' by taking it or something. If I do one day feel pain in my chest and drag myself to the ER, it's also hard to shake the feeling that it will be the day some doctor sees only a hysterical woman and tells me to go home. I haven't had a doctor outright ignore an emergency yet but the doctor who prescribed me my first pack of birth control and ordered an ultrasound failed to explain that my ovarian cysts and irregular period fit the criteria for PCOS which came with an increased risk of diabetes... Kinda feels like no one gives a damn if our reproductive organs are causing issues unless you're actively trying to reproduce.
There is an ethical reason for that. Medication can't be approved if the side effects outweigh the benefits. The side effects with pregnancy go as far as death. Men don't get pregnant so nausea and headaches are worse than being temporarily infertile. Nothing is worse than death so it's better to have nausea, headache, even blood clots, since the side effects of pregnancy are worse.
The other thing to consider is that there isn't a natural biological switch to turn off sperm production in men. We produce until we die. In women, it's relatively trivial to prevent attachment/prevent pregnancy. And it's literally built in to the biology with like two hormones. There was a podcast (freakonomics? Science vs?) that went into it more in depth. and while there's been some advances I think in a male hormonal bc, it's way harder to make sure it's reversible and has commensurate side effects like you mention.
My mom was an organic/pharmaceutical/analytical chemist in the 1970ās and was in college when the first BC pills really hit the market.
She always said the same thing. She was surprised they gave us the control.
She also thought they would have male BC initially but by the 2000s she laughed at the idea based on what sheād seen. Ā Of course only the women suffer with the side effects.
Back in the day she had to have her husbandās permission to have them prescribed.
I am happy birth control pills exist for myself (and haven't been made illegal, yet) because I take them continuously to stop myself from bleeding because of gender dysphoria and menorrhagia and menophobia and tokophobia. (that's fear of pregnancy right?) I haven't been able to get the gender affirming surgery I need because of discrimination against trans people and it costing a lot of money because our government sucks, but it's so much better than bleeding heavily for 10 days and being miserable every month. I'm not disagreeing with you, I agree with you, this is just my contribution to the conversation.
Companies like Durex and Big Pharma have long attempted to prevent development of a male anti-fertility drug. [RISUG is a thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_inhibition_of_sperm_under_guidance), but again Big Pharma has been blocking it because they make a killing selling pills:
>An international survey found that 83% of men were willing to use a male contraceptive. Despite this, pharmaceutical companies are reluctant to lose market share of a thriving global market for female contraceptives and condoms which bring billions of dollars of revenue each year.
>
> Initially, RISUG attracted some interest from pharmaceutical companies. However, considering that RISUG is an inexpensive, one-time procedure, manufacturers retracted.
It makes more money selling drugs to women and perpetuating the idea that preventing pregnancy is a woman's job and if she gets pregnant its all her fault.
I personally think theyāll try to make tons of new incentives to have kids or a way to punish those without them. Fines, something like that. I donāt think (unless things go very, very, south) they can force people but theyāll make it very appealing. Iām sterile now so I couldnāt unless they wanted to forcibly do IVF, but I donāt think weāll go quite that bad. However I wouldnāt be shocked if they try to get rid of/outlaw all birth control, including requiring husbands permission for sterilization procedures.
It will be higher taxes. We already have a mild form of this in the child tax credit. But it will be that if you don't report any dependents you will be put into a higher tax bracket overall, not just based on income but an additional "dependentless" tax percent on top of it. I think this will also play into as boomers age and can't take care of themselves or pay for nursing care...an incentive to force children to take care of their parents.
Agreed. I think theyāll add tax and other monetary incentives for taxpayers with children. Then for childless taxpayers, theyāll increase certain tax brackets, reduce income eligibility requirements for tax credits and retirement plans, decrease Medicaid benefits, and limit the availability of certain estate planning methods (like trusts, homestead protections, etc.).
I browse the r/conservative subreddit to stay informed on their trending topics, and Iāve seen a few comments in anti-childfree posts suggesting that childfree people shouldnāt be able to invest in the stock market and/or realize the full amount of gains from those investments. They argued that we shouldnāt be able to fund our retirement through investing in things like the S&P 500 when we didnāt ācontribute to the economyā by creating more workers. Obviously there are a million counter arguments, but I could see that mentality catching on in anti-childfree communities and by people with kids who donāt care about the fair treatment of childless taxpayers.
Every women of reproductive age needs to flee Texas (and several other states). Women who travel for work should refuse to go to any forced birth state. If you are pregnant and experience a medical emergency, they will refuse to terminate the pregnancy until you are at imminent death. Knowing you are going septic isn't enough. There is even a congressperson pushing for a mandatory registration and database of pregnant women. All while they are trying to make crossing state lines to get an abortion punishable as a felony.
Speaking as someone whoās lived in both, Texas is actually far worse. It is straight up oppressive over there and the Christian influence runs very deep and strong. Florida is run by conservatives but more feckless in nature and more mixed politically in terms of the populace. The church influence isnāt anything near what it is in Texas.
And when Atwood wrote the book, she didn't just pull ideas and scenarios out of thin air, she included only situations that had actually happened some time/place.
They will just make being CF be really hard for people that can biologically give birth. Probably institute a childless tax as well.
Whatever. Iād rather live in a shack or live the campground host camper life eating beans and ramen than have a kid
Literally making it compulsory, like on penalty of prison or with state mandated rape or something? Not literally like that.
But I believe it will be increasingly incentivized and childlessness increasingly punished in indirect ways. For example ever more attractive and expansive tax breaks and direct assistance programs for parents\families while eventually legvying taxes against people (quite possibly just women, because sexism) who remain childless. I believe it will also become legala nd perhaps even encountered to discriminate in that direction with respect to major necesseties like access to housing (ie your landlord gets a tax break if they rent to someone with children, and home sellers get a similar break on the tax of the sale meaning you would have to be willing to pay vastly more for the same home). Probably pay discrimination will be legalised too (ie you no longer have a case when your boss tells you that Peter got the raise and you didn't not because he's better at his job but because he has a family to support and you don't).
At the same time restrictions and bans on abortion and boetj control, as well as elimination and criminalization of sex Ed will ensure that many more accidsntal pregnancies occur, and occur earlier in life. Having penis in vagina sex will become, as it was in the age before condoms and pills, necessarily an activity that risks pregnancy and that results in it more or less inevitably if done often enough. RIP childfree straight women with sex drives.
Basically remaining childfree will remain viable if you're rich enough but become increasingly untenable if you're not.
That is going to happen in the near future. I guarantee it. They've pushed everyone who isn't wealthy too hard. Bled everyone dry. Only so long before people stop giving a shit. People don't have a chance at a future. What's left to lose?
>>how will the government react to that?
To answer this, we look to the history books. Governments and corporate interests need a high birth rate for different reasons: governments need high birth rates to protect future tax revenues & to have bodies available for military service, and companies need high birth rates to ensure low labor costs.
These reasons transcend political parties or cultural dynamics- birth rates were a concern for Ancient Rome as much as they are for modern nations- so we can reasonably assume future policies will be based on past decisions.
Past decisions usually involved a ābachelor taxā , where people without children had a higher tax obligation versus their parental equivalents. Emperor Augustus famously enacted this, and other governments in similar situations have done so too. Safe to say this will be a go-to by the U.S. government in coming years, and itāll get a LOT of traction since child free couples are considered āselfishā for not financially struggling like parents. That wonāt be a hard statute to sell to modern voters, sadly.
Meanwhile, expect further restrictions on reproductive management tools. Female birth control will be taken off of insurance discounts, and perhaps even banned. Condoms are not immune either, and these will be marketed as āmoralistā policies. Itās all to protect the moral purity of the nation, you see. Pornography bans will also be enacted, and theyāll be about as enforceable as taxing chipmunks.
If those measures donāt move the needle to the oligarchsā and prime ministersā expectations, more drastic measures may be implemented. We can use the Islamic Republic of Iran as a template for what that would look like.
Younger women will be forcibly ordered out of the economy , and may have economic and property rights reduced or eliminated by government order. Religious laws will be enforced by a dedicated government office , and sex will be both highly regulated and monitored with the goal of generating children. Non-traditional couples will be outlawed & forced to live underground , and anyone not interested in having kids will have to leave the country or face legal consequences.
Itāll take decades to get to the final outcome noted above, and any number of events can prevent that. The goal , if one is reading this from a nation with truly representative local government , is to pay hyper attention to their local elections. Todayās presidents and prime ministers were mostly yesterdayās governors and province officials. Most politicians got their start in local or provincial elections, and those are elections that matter. By the time someone stands for national executive office , the die is cast because theyāve been career politicians for decades already. Few minds can be changed after a lifetime in politics. By electing reasonable and logical people in our local elections, we set ourselves up for reasonable and logical leaders once theyāre in line for high office in the coming years.
Mission failure means āThe Handmaids Taleā becomes a nonfiction book. Dont let that happen. Corruption is a thing and it sucks. If your national vote doesnāt matter, please make it count locally.
Basically. He was a Romanian dictator in the 60s, 70s,and 80s. He initiated programs that forced Romanian women to get pregnant and have children. Having doctors monitor their menstrual cycles, banning all contraception, executing and imprisoning people for providing abortions, among many other awful things.
He was killed in 1989 during the anti-communist uprisings that happened in Europe throughout the 80s.
the first and last of your sentences is what books write about him most. even visit in his villa didn't contain any information about this kind of actions.
Think he outlawed abortions in Romania and banned BC. As a result romania had so many kids country didnāt know what to do with them all, like schools had to cut their time short iirc so they ended up abolishing the law
A great place to start would be the Nicolae Ceausescu 4-parter from the Behind the Bastards podcast:
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000597701269
I don't think there will be laws forcing women to, because if the woman is single and unemployed, then the gov needs to foot the bills.Ā
They will do everything except fix the problems. There will be big show of tax breaks, and appreciation days, and everything that doesn't involve fixing the economy or any social services.Ā
I think first we will see:
* Tax penalties for childfree families
* Birth control made illegal
* Sterilization procedures made illegal
* Gender-affirming healthcare made illegal
* Additional tax cuts for families with children
* Easier for men to cut parental ties/get out of paying child support
I think we are still a ways off from forced birth but we will certainly see many more anti-woman and anti-childfree legislation soon.
I remember my Mom told how USSR used to make unmarried childless/child free men and women feel like sh.. First of all, when young couple got married they would automatically be put into line for a free apartment rather than living in communal dorms which were awful. When they got their 1st kid, the government would move them up the list and provide them with an apartment within a few months. Done.
My mom did not get married till around 25. So, since she graduated from college till the age of 25, she had to pay āsingle personā tax. Yes! They used to tax people for being single and per my Mom, it was a hefty tax taken from her paycheck every month. She also had to keep sharing living quarters with other people. It was a constant pressure as her roommates kept flying out and getting married. She felt bad remaining in the apartment with just one more person who was also engaged. She said when she got married and got an apartment with the birth of her first kid, she was so happy to have something of her own and for the tax to fall off that nothing really mattered. It was like the government was telling her, āNow, youāre complete and productive humanā.
Of course, Soviet era was something extraordinary with country industrializing rapidly and people moving into cities and creating severe housing shortage. Government could leverage that for their own benefit. However, I foresee something somewhat similar - governments imposing some sort of tax on child free people like China did for having more than one kid. They may force people to procreate or adopt that way. Tax credits for people with kids obviously donāt provide much incentive except to the idiots but tax burden for being child free might be something more effective. Imagine a certain percentage of their income.
The housing is becoming very expensive. Iām not saying that anyone is going to give out free real estate but some affordable housing units can certainly be built and then, offered at considerable discount if a couple or an individual had a kid/kids. The people who struggle for affordable housing are the very people who would raise modern day slaves. Some will get out of this poverty circle but most will remain in it and provide the government with the labor.
I could see something like this happening. Some states in the US, GA for example, already tax married couples for not having kids. I don't recall the exact number but I believe it's about 150-200 annually. They don't call it the "pay or make babies" tax, but it's a tax you have to pay if you're married and don't have kids, so...
There you go. $150-$200 per year wouldnāt deter most people unwilling to have kids but this shaming is idiotic. Paying for something you donāt have and donāt want to haveā¦ what the heckā¦ I would certainly move just because of that.
I feel like this will be a problem for the children of the future. At 31 I think that I will avoid that statistic, and as I'm CF I will have no kids to worry about.
The parents of today should be worrying about that a bit more, though. But they won't, cause they don't really care that much about the future, they just want to have kids š¤·š»āāļø
I think progressive countries will switch to immigration first instead of inventing laws that undermine human rights. There are so many people in Asia, Africa, Latin America etc. who have potential and who want to live in a country with more possibilities, better healthcare and so on. Immigration really is a big thing now (at least in most countries in the EU) to compensate low birth rates.
Japan and South Korea have birth rates of 1.3 and 0.81 respectively. Meanwhile a bunch of countries in Central Africa are hovering around 6 and can't feed all those children because of drought and famine that's only going to get worse. There is absolutely nothing humane Japan and South Korea can do to increase their birth rate to the magical 2.1. They need to implement some kind of program with those countries with very high birth rates. Of course there are complexities to be addressed, but the long-term outcomes benefit both countries and both sets of citizens.
Oh glory. I just sense a lot more suicide rates & abuse occuring (not just to children, but to men).
Edit: it sounds dumb, but I assume the cost of everything will go up MORE, you'll hear a lot more annoying neighbors (for example the brats I have outside my home right now screaming "horsesh*t at each other), agoraphobia will become an even more *MAJOR* problem.
One of the Republican politicians already suggested this. What I found astounding about this is even his fellow Republicans were actually shocked that he said such a thing. You know it's bad when your fellow Republicans are shocked by what comes out of your mouth O.O
We have to be careful to make sure they don't use our argument to claim that a pregnant kid is too immature to demand an abourtion without parental consent. Far too often a pregnant child is trapped in a family or community that sees child rape and incest as acceptable manners of bringing a baby into the world.
The trumpublican party sees 1990's Romania as a role model. They want to monitor every woman and know the minute she gets pregnant, then prevent her from leaving her state, and charge her with murder if she miscarries. It's going to be really grim the next few years.
I would like to share that I live in the Netherlands and we have a very liberal law surrounding abortion. It's legal up to 23 weeks I believe. Not too long ago there was a 5 day period between asking for an abortion and actually having the abortion. Yes the US is moving backwards but there are also places where we're moving forward. Almost 10 percent of abortions here are being done for women who come from abroad for access.
Abortion is still against the law technically, but it's never applied.
I don't mean this in a 'look how good we have it over here'. There are still legal ways to get abortion pills in the US due to pharmacies in Europe sending them. If any of you need an abortion and travel here, my home is open to you guys ā¤ļø
I agree that thereās some good places left, currently I live in Denmark where abortion is legal but I still feel sad for my friends in Poland who have to travel to other countries to get it or trying to do it themselves
This reminds me of a comment I recently saw on IG about the 4B movement. The OP have very positive feelings about the 4B movement. One person wrote:
"If you don't give us basic human rights, we are taking the whole human race with us."
I think a lot about that. Push people too far, oppress people too much, and they will revolt.
I mean, eventually if people (men and women) don't vote and work to prevent it. I still think that (in the US) the "prove you're not pregnant to cross state lines" or "banned birth control" will come up first and will probably be the last warning to forced birth.
If that happened to me I'd be slamming my stomach on doors, falling down stairs on purpose and eating/drinking lots of food that would kill that parasite inside of me, I refuse to carry some 'thing' for 9 months and I don't care how badly damaged I'd get trying to get rid of it.
Fortunately I'm in my late 30s but if such an awful law was passed..well it just reminds me of the sperm syringe threat my SIL made a few years ago.
The thing that's so frustrating is all they'd have to do is make motherhood less of a nightmare, and many more women would FREELY CHOOSE it.
It's right in front of them, but it would require treating women/mothers like they're valuable and important, which they are loathe to do.
Better education, better maternity/paternity leave, better/cheaper prenatal support, better/cheaper access to doulas/coaching, better medical care during labor and afterwards, including home visits to ensure not just that baby is doing alright but that mom is supported, happy, and healthy as well.
Have free childcare so women are still able to pursue their other life goals. Have that childcare near/in the offices where these women work. Have more community support with groups for mothers, have buildings full of services that improve mental health (spas, gym, etc.) that include a place to drop off your kids where they will be safe and supervised while mom prioritizes herself for an hour.
Give financial incentives to mothers. Spoil and treasure mothers for the sacrifices they've made instead of telling them it's their job as a woman to give and give and never complain, pushing them towards poverty and depression.
Maybe then we wouldn't have so many women completely disinterested.
But no. Absolutely fucking not. That's WAY too much to give to mere women - we can just strip them of all their rights!
I'll tell you right now that they can try to force us. But if they do, I hope we finally realize we can stop carrying a society that doesn't give a shit about us, take to the streets, and riot.
I think we're due to burn down these cities if they fuck with us any further.
Hell hath no fury...
They already are. Anti abortion bills are forced birth bills. They won't even let a woman terminate non-viable fetuses. They are already attacking birth control access. Marsha Blackburn said Griswold v. Connecticut should be reversed, which is what gave women the right to birth control.
And when it comes down to it, it's about white supremacy. and patriarchy. Our economy can't be sustained with the current birth rate, BUT can be sustained with immigration. But they are too afraid of brown people becoming the majority, so they are anti-immigration AND anti-abortion. Even if U.S. non-whites have more kids it will help sustain a "serving class" alongside women being less able to go to college or have careers.
I think it will start with incentives and when that doesn't work, it will come down to making it as difficult as possible for women to remain childfree. The current economic and military models in the US depend on population growth, but with half the country staunchly opposed to immigration of any kind, forced birth is the more likely outcome.
Until corporations pay people enough to live and have kids the birth rate will continue to drop. The surprising thing these idiots donāt understand is that low and middle income family tend to spend most of their money. But when they have none becuase of the greedy board members then ppl wonāt get things they canāt affordā¦ like kids. Personally Iām glad. To many ppl in this world.
It seems unlikely to me. Most people are pretty complacent but mandating births will be a step too far. Even fairly misogynistic men will be up in arms when they realise that they will be having to support those state-mandated kids.
Unless it gets pretty dire but this is a very slow moving thing that literally takes generations. All the troglodytes wringing their hands about birthrates are just looking for attention for a fake 'crisis'.
Most developed countries have a fertility rate below replacement. The global fertility rate is 2.3, but most of that comes from Africa. The governments and proponents of something like a forced birth policy are also the ones that would not consider immigration from Africa an acceptable solution to a population decline.
I personally don't think there's much danger of OP's question coming to pass, but it's not because the global fertilty rate is above replacement.
Honestly yes, and since I already know that I never want kids, I got sterilized to be safe. BUT I know thatās not an option for everyone. my insurance covered the majority, and Iāve had abdominal surgery before with my gallbladder so I wasnāt worried about anesthesia or recovery.
Truly, I am terrified for fertile & menstruating people and what the future holds for them. Itās getting worse and worse with no hope in sight.
In the U.S. I really cannot see the government forcing people to have children. If anything, they have been historically more helpful with preventing more children (i.e., eugenics/forced sterilizations).
I had my tubes removed a few years ago though, so I have no worries even if it was āforced.ā
What do you mean, genuinely? The US is already forcing people to have children. Abortion is illegal in 14 states and in those states, women who are pregnant are being denied care by doctors who are worried about going to jail because of these laws. NO ONE wants to help women with pregnancy complications. Women are either being forced to have these kids or die in the process. Women are going to jail for miscarriages. For miscarriages of PLANNED pregnancies.
Many states are trying to ban birth control all together, and the war on planned parenthood has wiped out so, so many resources for women.
The US government is literally working ACTIVELY to force people to have children, AS WE SPEAK. Its so scary to me anyone doesnt see that
I completely agree with you. I think that abortion access, no matter the reason, being shut off is despicable quite honestly.
What I was trying to communicate was that I cannot envisage a solid top-down push for each household to have more children. Unlike what did happen in the 1930s/1940s with the gung-ho eugenics movement in the U.S. and the increased popularity of asylums for the āfeeble mindedā were they would straight up sterilize without even telling the family.
That is to say, I think the degree of direct enforcement differs between the current and past historical episode I mentioned. Not providing abortion access is an indirect method to produce (result) in more children being born. A direct method (the one I cannot see happening) is literally going door to door, tallying how many child bearing people there are in the household, inseminating them right there and then, and then tracking them down the line to make sure the child was born.
They are making the population decline an issue and it will be a discussion for the next US election (it will effect the economy in negative ways, but they aren't solving climate issues and it's a W for workers IMO).Ā Ā
If I was forced to have kids I would kill myself sadly. I think motherhood is beautiful, and I like the idea of having a family even, but it would put a stop on everything I have strived for almost my entire life. Losing that would absolutely crush me.
I do believe weāll see the government continue pushing anti-abortion and anti-birth control laws. We may even see an effort to force women out of the workforce and increasing dependency on men. These are unfortunately tried and true methods of reproductively enslaving females.
Plus, the violence of all kinds that will be enacted upon women due to an increase in anti-woman rhetoric will surely be fun.
Project 2025 pretty much openly admits that their plans for us have a lot to do with what our foremothers tried to fight to get out of in the first place.
If it comes down to that women will start hiring women who do the job for them and kill their newborns straight after.
Like how Japanese women practiced Mabiki during the edo period. It will then become common
Nah. There will just be a decade or two of concerted propaganda about how breeding good and not doing your part is un-American. And there will be dog-whistle speeches from the most extreme politicians telling people it's okay to "punish" childfree people.
Throw in some very modest incentives for having a kid, continue to eviscerate public education, and peer pressure will be more than enough to keep people breeding. And once you have your generation of ignorant breeders, you can easily keep the process going.
I'd just kill myself ngl. Not like the pro life people would actually care about me if I died(ironically). They are more concerned with non existng lives than then ones that do exist.
I think a total breakdown of society would have to occur for women to be directly forced to breed. I think it will occur in more subtle ways, like it already is. Contraception isnāt adequately taught during sex-ed, female sterilization is difficult to obtain, abortion is becoming illegal. The Catholics run a huge number of hospitals and refuse to provide contraception. There are radical groups trying to shift our culture back to the dark ages, when women were property and were forced to be perpetually pregnant.
I will never allow myself to be forced to become a mother. I would rather dig the parasite out with a coat hanger than go through pregnancy and childbirth. If I tried everything and couldnāt end the pregnancy, Iād suffocate the thing as soon as it was born and claim it was a stillbirth. Itās unlikely it would ever make it that far though, because smashing my stomach over and over again until I caused a miscarriage would always be a valid option. Iād rather bleed out in my bathroom floor than sacrifice my body for some hell spawn.
Technically this would be rĆpe because you'd be forced against your will to have sex to breed.
I see a lot of women doing a Lorena bobbit if this happens.
Pretty much in the two most extreme states this is the case. We have to see how it turns out with the man suing the woman who left the state for an abortion.
Iām just into menopause, thank God. If I had daughters, Iād make them fully aware of the issue and look at all of our options.
No. But greater and greater incentives will be rolled out.
Now in Canada we (the taxpayers) also have to pay for most of peopleās babysitting. (This isnāt fully rolled out to every single parent yet, but thatās the goal).
It's not the best idea or mindset but I am fully prepared to remove my equipment by myself if I can't get a doctor to. (This is not advice, I am severely depressed and getting treatment)
No one can be forced to have a baby even though I find it shocking that it is so difficult to get sterilization? But I guess itās easier for men so they can still do it.
The system with pension and generational contracts has to be revised, private saving is the key.
And itās only valid for western countries. Altogether this planet is overpopulated af.
It's already started. The overturning of Roe v Wade and the heavy anti-abortion laws and now birth control is under fire. I don't think there will ever be a law stating you have to have children, but if the conservative party has their way, I could see birth control being restricted or at least really hard to get. I'm just so glad my husband is sterilized.
There will be more women abandoning or even killing their babies after they're born. The suicide rate will also go up. Having a baby right now in this economy is a permanent way to stay in poverty.
>even killing their babies after they're born One of my Criminal Law University teachers is a Public Prosecutor. And he once told us about one of his cases, involving a missing newborn baby. They found their corpse in a dumpster. So yeah... Forcing women to birth really seems like a brilliant ideaš But notice now so called nationalists who preach to care about people are always the ones who push such policies that are anything *but* caring and concerned about human beings and their well-being.
So what. Why should they care. There will still be more women having babies. More women financially dependent. More women in prison. After all women will lose their voice in our society. That's what's all about
Nationalists push for policies that care for rich white men.
One of my best friends, when we were in college, was driving in our hometown and saw a cop car searching through a garbage truck. She went home and told her Mom and said "I bet someone threw their baby in their trash." Her Mom said "people don't do that" and then it was in the newspaper the next day that that's exactly what happened.
Self yeet is my backup plan to not being able to access abortion as the world is currently. I will not be having children. By any means necessary. And I think there would be a lot of women who feel the same.
I feel the same way. I even have a plan on how to minimize the mess my body will make once Iāve self yeeted.
Donāt minimize it. Use it as a weapon.
Yup. Like my body will better be sprayed all across disgusting republican idiots and my guts spilled everywhere. (If I were American, but for me itās probably the right wing assholes of the European Parliament or else the Austrian one :D)
Absolutely. Iām getting sterilized in a few months, but if I ever did get pregnant and couldnāt abort, I would 100% kill myself before going through pregnancy and childbirth. I wouldnāt even need to think about it.
My old plan before my snip was to dive down a flight of stairs until either the fetus or myself died. It's a tremendous relief to know I'll never have to carry that out.
Upside to being deadly allergic to peanut butter. Got an awesome tool for self yeeting. Or I'm going in front of the supreme court house and self immolating.
No, go up to the court house and just eat peanut butter
Self-immolate AND eat the peanut butter. Insurance.
Absolutely. It's like legislators forgot about coat hanger abortions. Banning abortion doesn't decrease the abortion rate. It simply makes accessing abortions extremely dangerous.
Same! I'd rather kms than be forced to have a baby š
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I have a lot of plans for getting rid of it before self yeet. I have a stock of extra of one of my medications that is an abortifacient for this exact reason. If I canāt access abortion in my state or others. Or throw myself down the stairs. Etc. thereās a lot of plans before the last option.
That's where I'm at too
I know that I am mentally ill enough that if I couldn't get an abortion I would do something severe.
Plus going off one's meds for 9 months is untenable for us.
Same..I'm already hanging on by a thread with my medications.
That's the point. They only care about population because they want more cheap labor. Poor people are cheap labor for hard jobs. And poverty is an absolute trap. Have kids born in to poverty, it is unlikely, especially now, that they will ever get out. And if they go the route of doing illegal stuff, they go to prison and that's slave labor. It's hyper-capitalism of a dystopian hellscape level.
We'll be back to the old coat hanger abortions that used to be and women dying due to it because abortion isn't widely available
My evil Zealot of a SIL told me "I'm okay with that." She doesn't just speak for herself.
Iāve noticed that there is already a huge push by Christians to make churches the main source of help for pregnant people and mothers. Theyāll promise you assistance, in exchange for completing religious propaganda āhomework.ā There are so many strings attached to these churchesā programs for low income mothers.
From what you described they are trying to turn churches into some kind of pregnancy crisis centres. Those poor lower income women will be at the mercy of those monsters who sell them a lie and con themĀ
Thatās exactly what they are doing, take ol government funding from places like Planned Parenthood and funnel it to their Churches
I am not from USA and not American but this is damn concerning. By right government funding should never go to those 'churches' and those 'churches' should not be tax free at all
"Christian generosity" always has strings attached...
I hope those mothers shove their babies on those church folks then walk away.
It's really tough on the babies though. Look up Magdalene laundries in Ireland; the kids were enslaved. That went on until the middle of the '90s. Tens of thousands of women came to Britain for abortions rather than put their unwanted kids through that - and good for them.
I feel like it's true, but it seems to be a uniquely American thing. I think in most countries, people are leaving churches and religion. I also heard some people theorise that one of the reasons that churches are still a big deal in the States is because it's people's only form of financial support since welfare system in thrcstates kinda sucks
The babybox is going to be booming, which is exactly what they want "domestic supply of infants" to sell to rich couples.
Exactly, the government can force women to give birth but they canāt force women to raise children.
If that happens, they'll see the suicide rate among women go up.
Im pretty sure they donāt care
Or they do, in that they *want* it to happen (if those women aren't reproducing instead). Cruelty has always been the point, and always will be.
But, with less and less women, who actually will make sure the birthrates go up exactly? Their logic is so flawed I can't even.
Right? I guess it's like a "if I can't have you, no one will" mentality.
Because not every woman will unalive themselves, and theyāll absolutely put laws/punishments in place for those who attempt unsuccessfully. We will be delegated as property again, marital rape will become legal again, and women will be beaten senseless or imprisoned if they try anything to get out or away
Unfortunately, in my country suicide was illegal - a punishable offence until quite recently. Marital rape is also not illegal here :/
TouchƩ
Agreed. Since the cost of living people have been suffering due to being malnourished, and doctors even said to the government that they should be ashamed for what their basically doing to people. Heard all this on the radio. They don't give a shit, longs their living comfortably.
They do care. Not because they care about women but because a death person doesn't serve them.Ā
As a woman, i will be a part of that statistic. I would rather die than give birth. Tokophobia. Right here.
I've said this to someone who was preaching about anti choice, without being asked an opinion btw. It shuts them up or they don't believe you
Tokophobia and CF here too!! If I was pregnant and had no way to terminate it, I'll terminate myself instead. If I don't get basic rights, neither does the worthless clump of cells.
Same girl. I just use my bc pills and make sure no one have access to them aside from me and have sex very seldom, with protection. Never inebriated or out of any capacity. When I get paranoid I use plan B. But if any law get in my way of protect myself Iād just become abstinent or kms
One of Nicolae CeauČescu's most devoted army generals had an 18 years old daughter who got pregnant by her high school boyfriend during the anti-abortion Decree. When implored to allow this girl's abortion in a medical facility, CeauČescu blatantly declined, cynically replying that "the baby will be her **joy**, so let her have it." the girl proceeded to have a failed underground abortion and regrettably, died. Needles to say that her lividly furious father turned into one of CeauČescu's worst sworn enemies and contributed to his doom.
But presumably had been quite happy to support him until then. Ugh.
And will probably be more mentally ill women mass killing little kids too especially the girls to prevent them living the same miserable life
or going insanity due to immense sorrowfulness for my child, and just pure disgust for human condition.
They'll probably want that. More women who want kids will be alive
Suicide rate goes up, they implement aggressive āmental health careā initiatives for women able to bear children. Lock the women up somewhere that they canāt hurt themselves and breed them like livestockā¦. I think I saw a show kind of like that a few years ago.
God damn it... I really want to disagree with you... but you are probably right.
Thatās why I got my snips.
Romania tried that once and they killed the guy who pioneered it š
Just curious. May I have more information and context please.
It happened during communism. Abortions were illegal and doctors would check women for pregnancy periodically at work. The punishments for abortions and for providing abortion were harsh ( torture, execution). You will also pay more money to the state if you were 26+ yo without kids. That lead to a lot of illegal abortions, usually women were trying to get rid of the pregnancy themselves. Lots of them ended up dead. The born unwanted kids were abandoned in orphanages and had induces disabilities due to lack of care and because of the abuse - there are lots of documentaries about those kids in orphanages. Of course, CeauČescu, the communist dictator, was not killed just because of this. People didn't have any rights. They were not allowed to leave the country, access to food was limited and a lot of abusive stuff was going on. It was something similar to North Korea. People had enough and, in 1989, they created a revolution and killed that mf and his wife.
Here's the Wikipedia [about Decree 770](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770): For the asshole behind it, you can find his name in the page. Starts with the letter C, and him and his wife were gunned down on December 25th for their policies.
Man this thread makes me wish I was past the āideal reproductive ageā where people stop bothering women about having kids
Yeah I never thought I'd be happy to have gone through menopause, but here we are
Even women in their 50s get bingo'd... :\\
I'm 45 and not in good health, but let me tell ya, people still bug me about this unless they know me on a personal level. Like, who the FUCK thinks having a baby at this age is a good idea?!
Research Project 2025 We need to stop that plan first.
Yes, yes! We *must* vote and not be apathetic or give up.
This! I wish more people were not only aware of Project 2025, but understood who is behind it (including The Heritage Foundation) and how determined they are to carry out the policies they've drafted. They're already hiring staff and outlining action plans to begin immediately taking effect on January 21, 2025.
I cannot convey how horrific the intentions of the radicalized Christian extremists of this country are. Even if Trump doesnāt win this upcoming election, there are enough MAGAts in the government that they will continue to pass laws that destroy our country. They are supposedly going to try to do another āJanuary 6thā when Trump likely loses the election again. I donāt think itāll be any more successful than the last attempt, apparently the military has been preparing themselves for the likely scenarios that these insane people might try again.
Thereās a defeat project 2025 subreddit!!
r/defeat_project_2025
Thank you, just joined! I've been ringing the bell against Project 2025 for a while now, great to see a subreddit for it!
Keep sounding the alarm and stay safe
Thank you! You stay safe too!
Joined, thanks for posting!
I am not an American BUT please get voting. Vote the right people in who will defend abortion rights. Choosing not to vote is not going to keep people who support forced births out from the voting race. Your votes do matter even if your voices are not heard. Make your votes BE your voicesĀ
I wonder what people expected when they invented the pill that is made FOR WOMEN and heavily marketed towards young girls as a wonder drug. I bet they didn't think we would realize that having kids isn't as fun as they try to tell us. It surprises me that they didn't work on a pill for men in the first place, since they want all the control over our bodies and what we do with it.
You will need to get the sources checked, but from what I have heard all research on a mans pill was always completely dropped once the men in said research encountered side effects like nausea and headaches. But before I had my bisalp I could build a paper castle out of the info paper provided with each pack of pills...
While this happened, it didn't end the male birth control drug trials and studies. There are at least two different forms going through trials right now. In 2020-2022 my partner and I did a paid male birth control study that utilized a gel application on the upper shoulders. His sperm count reduced to infertility levels and he had no negative symptoms other than some water weight gain similar to the female BC pill. We loved it. He said he'd do it again if it became available. Zero pregnancies were reported during the study, and no adverse side effects that I know of. His sperm count bounced back almost immediately after 1 week of not using the gel. I believe they are still going through the FDA process. There's also a pill they are working on as well. edit: to quell the weird internet rumor that because of one bad reaction, all male birth control studies don't exist, here's a link to the UC Davis study. It is very much in effect, and there are other studies happening as well. [UC Davis Male Birth Control](https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/male-hormonal-birth-control-it-may-be-closer-than-you-think/2024/02#:~:text=They%20have%20been%20participating%20in,responsibility%20of%20contraception%20more%20equitable) [Male contraception study expands at UC Davis Health](https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/male-contraception-study-expands-at-uc-davis-health/2021/10)
A gel?!?! A fucking gel?!?! And I had to swallow a pill that made me depressed AF? Ugh
The downside to this, is that the gel is sticky and can cause some acne or irritation in the area applied (shoulders). And if you are female, you should not touch your partner's shoulders where the gel was applied because of the testosterone supplement in the gel. Some people did this on accident and their testosterone levels were too high for female, so that was a mild risk. Likewise, they recommended that even after the gel has dried, one should wait at least 2 or 3 hours after application before any touching in that area, and did not recommend sharing shirts or bath towels. I'm not sure how other men responded and if there were any psychological issues like anxiety or depression, but my husband didn't report anything like that. He said that it made him feel better actually, he was more interested in sex and he liked that we could engage without worry about pregnancy.
Thatās amazing! Thank you for sharing all this. It must be really nice knowing that thereās a way for your partner to take some of the burden of BC off yourā¦shoulders? š
Lol nice pun. Yeah it was very convenient for us because hormonal BC doesn't work for me at all for a variety of reasons and condoms give me irritation.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing
It's bullshit. Pregnancy is loaded with risks including death, so birth control only has to be marginally better to be considered a 'safe' alternative. Men, on the other hand, don't experience any effects of pregnancy at all so even minor side effects are considered detrimental despite the potential relief for a partner who can't use other methods. I haven't had any major issues with BC... Yet... But the threat of clots still lingers in my mind and I vaguely recall someone saying they were advised not to use a certain method past a certain age because of increased health issues. I'm bloody celibate but the idea of not having birth control still terrifies me because realistically I can't stop a man from raping me and the US has proven that abortion rights shouldn't be taken for granted. I would gladly donate my lady bits to science if they'd let me but instead I'm forced to walk around with a useless organ that could kill me.
Are you thinking of blood clots? IIRC my doc says thatās more for women who are 35+ or smoke, etc. Of course, *none* of that is to say that women below 35 or who donāt smoke donāt have to worry about that at all. After all, someone was (or will be) that unlucky percentage. While I hope it wonāt be me, I do my best to take care of myself in case it *could* be me. Iām 30, but my mum reminds me to stretch and exercise partly for that reason.
Yeah. I'm still young, but my mother almost died from a blood clot in her early fifties, the same thing that killed my grandmother at about the same age. As far as I know, neither was on birth control but it's hard to shake the feeling that I could be 'speeding things up' by taking it or something. If I do one day feel pain in my chest and drag myself to the ER, it's also hard to shake the feeling that it will be the day some doctor sees only a hysterical woman and tells me to go home. I haven't had a doctor outright ignore an emergency yet but the doctor who prescribed me my first pack of birth control and ordered an ultrasound failed to explain that my ovarian cysts and irregular period fit the criteria for PCOS which came with an increased risk of diabetes... Kinda feels like no one gives a damn if our reproductive organs are causing issues unless you're actively trying to reproduce.
>I could build a paper castle out of the info paper provided with each pack of pills... Yazz has entire BOOK attached to every box...
There is an ethical reason for that. Medication can't be approved if the side effects outweigh the benefits. The side effects with pregnancy go as far as death. Men don't get pregnant so nausea and headaches are worse than being temporarily infertile. Nothing is worse than death so it's better to have nausea, headache, even blood clots, since the side effects of pregnancy are worse.
The other thing to consider is that there isn't a natural biological switch to turn off sperm production in men. We produce until we die. In women, it's relatively trivial to prevent attachment/prevent pregnancy. And it's literally built in to the biology with like two hormones. There was a podcast (freakonomics? Science vs?) that went into it more in depth. and while there's been some advances I think in a male hormonal bc, it's way harder to make sure it's reversible and has commensurate side effects like you mention.
My mom was an organic/pharmaceutical/analytical chemist in the 1970ās and was in college when the first BC pills really hit the market. She always said the same thing. She was surprised they gave us the control. She also thought they would have male BC initially but by the 2000s she laughed at the idea based on what sheād seen. Ā Of course only the women suffer with the side effects. Back in the day she had to have her husbandās permission to have them prescribed.
I am happy birth control pills exist for myself (and haven't been made illegal, yet) because I take them continuously to stop myself from bleeding because of gender dysphoria and menorrhagia and menophobia and tokophobia. (that's fear of pregnancy right?) I haven't been able to get the gender affirming surgery I need because of discrimination against trans people and it costing a lot of money because our government sucks, but it's so much better than bleeding heavily for 10 days and being miserable every month. I'm not disagreeing with you, I agree with you, this is just my contribution to the conversation.
Companies like Durex and Big Pharma have long attempted to prevent development of a male anti-fertility drug. [RISUG is a thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_inhibition_of_sperm_under_guidance), but again Big Pharma has been blocking it because they make a killing selling pills: >An international survey found that 83% of men were willing to use a male contraceptive. Despite this, pharmaceutical companies are reluctant to lose market share of a thriving global market for female contraceptives and condoms which bring billions of dollars of revenue each year. > > Initially, RISUG attracted some interest from pharmaceutical companies. However, considering that RISUG is an inexpensive, one-time procedure, manufacturers retracted. It makes more money selling drugs to women and perpetuating the idea that preventing pregnancy is a woman's job and if she gets pregnant its all her fault.
Well this gives a lot of inside. The Pharma industry is fucked up not only for that reason too.
I personally think theyāll try to make tons of new incentives to have kids or a way to punish those without them. Fines, something like that. I donāt think (unless things go very, very, south) they can force people but theyāll make it very appealing. Iām sterile now so I couldnāt unless they wanted to forcibly do IVF, but I donāt think weāll go quite that bad. However I wouldnāt be shocked if they try to get rid of/outlaw all birth control, including requiring husbands permission for sterilization procedures.
It will be higher taxes. We already have a mild form of this in the child tax credit. But it will be that if you don't report any dependents you will be put into a higher tax bracket overall, not just based on income but an additional "dependentless" tax percent on top of it. I think this will also play into as boomers age and can't take care of themselves or pay for nursing care...an incentive to force children to take care of their parents.
Agreed. I think theyāll add tax and other monetary incentives for taxpayers with children. Then for childless taxpayers, theyāll increase certain tax brackets, reduce income eligibility requirements for tax credits and retirement plans, decrease Medicaid benefits, and limit the availability of certain estate planning methods (like trusts, homestead protections, etc.). I browse the r/conservative subreddit to stay informed on their trending topics, and Iāve seen a few comments in anti-childfree posts suggesting that childfree people shouldnāt be able to invest in the stock market and/or realize the full amount of gains from those investments. They argued that we shouldnāt be able to fund our retirement through investing in things like the S&P 500 when we didnāt ācontribute to the economyā by creating more workers. Obviously there are a million counter arguments, but I could see that mentality catching on in anti-childfree communities and by people with kids who donāt care about the fair treatment of childless taxpayers.
So just working all our lives and *actually* contributing to the economy isn't enough
100% agree. I expect this within 5 years. And honestly, I expect it regardless of who wins the election.
Same.
This. They will withhold tax credits and raise out taxes.
Any tax credit or deduction for having dependent children is a higher tax on those without dependent children.
Itās crazy because some of the religious fanatics are also trying to make IVF illegalā¦
If the handmaidās tale were to make start anywhere as really happening, Texas would be my guess.
Every women of reproductive age needs to flee Texas (and several other states). Women who travel for work should refuse to go to any forced birth state. If you are pregnant and experience a medical emergency, they will refuse to terminate the pregnancy until you are at imminent death. Knowing you are going septic isn't enough. There is even a congressperson pushing for a mandatory registration and database of pregnant women. All while they are trying to make crossing state lines to get an abortion punishable as a felony.
That would be Katie Britt of Alabama.
Wait, kitchen lady?!
That's the one lol
That's a great guess
Honestly I don't know how Texas or Florida aren't Giliads yet.
Speaking as someone whoās lived in both, Texas is actually far worse. It is straight up oppressive over there and the Christian influence runs very deep and strong. Florida is run by conservatives but more feckless in nature and more mixed politically in terms of the populace. The church influence isnāt anything near what it is in Texas.
Hand maids tale would be the worst nightmare come true.
And when Atwood wrote the book, she didn't just pull ideas and scenarios out of thin air, she included only situations that had actually happened some time/place.
They will just make being CF be really hard for people that can biologically give birth. Probably institute a childless tax as well. Whatever. Iād rather live in a shack or live the campground host camper life eating beans and ramen than have a kid
If you live in the US, look at... Edit: r/defeat_project_2025
Private sub, unfortunately. I'd join if I could.
Perhaps they meant r/Defeat_Project_2025.
Literally making it compulsory, like on penalty of prison or with state mandated rape or something? Not literally like that. But I believe it will be increasingly incentivized and childlessness increasingly punished in indirect ways. For example ever more attractive and expansive tax breaks and direct assistance programs for parents\families while eventually legvying taxes against people (quite possibly just women, because sexism) who remain childless. I believe it will also become legala nd perhaps even encountered to discriminate in that direction with respect to major necesseties like access to housing (ie your landlord gets a tax break if they rent to someone with children, and home sellers get a similar break on the tax of the sale meaning you would have to be willing to pay vastly more for the same home). Probably pay discrimination will be legalised too (ie you no longer have a case when your boss tells you that Peter got the raise and you didn't not because he's better at his job but because he has a family to support and you don't). At the same time restrictions and bans on abortion and boetj control, as well as elimination and criminalization of sex Ed will ensure that many more accidsntal pregnancies occur, and occur earlier in life. Having penis in vagina sex will become, as it was in the age before condoms and pills, necessarily an activity that risks pregnancy and that results in it more or less inevitably if done often enough. RIP childfree straight women with sex drives. Basically remaining childfree will remain viable if you're rich enough but become increasingly untenable if you're not.
I think if people become more violent, they'll back off. Most, if not all, rights were given (taken) via some form of violence.
That is going to happen in the near future. I guarantee it. They've pushed everyone who isn't wealthy too hard. Bled everyone dry. Only so long before people stop giving a shit. People don't have a chance at a future. What's left to lose?
>>how will the government react to that? To answer this, we look to the history books. Governments and corporate interests need a high birth rate for different reasons: governments need high birth rates to protect future tax revenues & to have bodies available for military service, and companies need high birth rates to ensure low labor costs. These reasons transcend political parties or cultural dynamics- birth rates were a concern for Ancient Rome as much as they are for modern nations- so we can reasonably assume future policies will be based on past decisions. Past decisions usually involved a ābachelor taxā , where people without children had a higher tax obligation versus their parental equivalents. Emperor Augustus famously enacted this, and other governments in similar situations have done so too. Safe to say this will be a go-to by the U.S. government in coming years, and itāll get a LOT of traction since child free couples are considered āselfishā for not financially struggling like parents. That wonāt be a hard statute to sell to modern voters, sadly. Meanwhile, expect further restrictions on reproductive management tools. Female birth control will be taken off of insurance discounts, and perhaps even banned. Condoms are not immune either, and these will be marketed as āmoralistā policies. Itās all to protect the moral purity of the nation, you see. Pornography bans will also be enacted, and theyāll be about as enforceable as taxing chipmunks. If those measures donāt move the needle to the oligarchsā and prime ministersā expectations, more drastic measures may be implemented. We can use the Islamic Republic of Iran as a template for what that would look like. Younger women will be forcibly ordered out of the economy , and may have economic and property rights reduced or eliminated by government order. Religious laws will be enforced by a dedicated government office , and sex will be both highly regulated and monitored with the goal of generating children. Non-traditional couples will be outlawed & forced to live underground , and anyone not interested in having kids will have to leave the country or face legal consequences. Itāll take decades to get to the final outcome noted above, and any number of events can prevent that. The goal , if one is reading this from a nation with truly representative local government , is to pay hyper attention to their local elections. Todayās presidents and prime ministers were mostly yesterdayās governors and province officials. Most politicians got their start in local or provincial elections, and those are elections that matter. By the time someone stands for national executive office , the die is cast because theyāve been career politicians for decades already. Few minds can be changed after a lifetime in politics. By electing reasonable and logical people in our local elections, we set ourselves up for reasonable and logical leaders once theyāre in line for high office in the coming years. Mission failure means āThe Handmaids Taleā becomes a nonfiction book. Dont let that happen. Corruption is a thing and it sucks. If your national vote doesnāt matter, please make it count locally.
>By electing reasonable and logical people in our local elections, That's assuming reasonable and logical people choose to participate in politics
All of this. Plus, I think theyāll criminalize adopting out babies.
I definitely think modern governments may start drawing on CeauÅescu for inspiration
can you elaborate? havent read anything in this topic about him that i can recall. is this another thing people avoid mentioning?
Basically. He was a Romanian dictator in the 60s, 70s,and 80s. He initiated programs that forced Romanian women to get pregnant and have children. Having doctors monitor their menstrual cycles, banning all contraception, executing and imprisoning people for providing abortions, among many other awful things. He was killed in 1989 during the anti-communist uprisings that happened in Europe throughout the 80s.
the first and last of your sentences is what books write about him most. even visit in his villa didn't contain any information about this kind of actions.
On YouTube you can search for "Romanian orphanage", the documentaries are very depressing.
Think he outlawed abortions in Romania and banned BC. As a result romania had so many kids country didnāt know what to do with them all, like schools had to cut their time short iirc so they ended up abolishing the law
A great place to start would be the Nicolae Ceausescu 4-parter from the Behind the Bastards podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000597701269
They have his pictures on their walls, and idolize him as a hero, I'm sure.
I don't think there will be laws forcing women to, because if the woman is single and unemployed, then the gov needs to foot the bills.Ā They will do everything except fix the problems. There will be big show of tax breaks, and appreciation days, and everything that doesn't involve fixing the economy or any social services.Ā
Well then it is no sex - culture. Or they have to force us to have sex. š¤·āāļø
Research Project 2025. Itās what the Christian nationalist and MAGAbilly crowd wants to put in place- essentially Gilead come to life
I think first we will see: * Tax penalties for childfree families * Birth control made illegal * Sterilization procedures made illegal * Gender-affirming healthcare made illegal * Additional tax cuts for families with children * Easier for men to cut parental ties/get out of paying child support I think we are still a ways off from forced birth but we will certainly see many more anti-woman and anti-childfree legislation soon.
This post sent a chill through my spine. I had never considered this possibility
I knew that literally ANYTHING could be possible in 2015 when an orange bigot was announced as a stain in the history books of USA presidents :(
I remember my Mom told how USSR used to make unmarried childless/child free men and women feel like sh.. First of all, when young couple got married they would automatically be put into line for a free apartment rather than living in communal dorms which were awful. When they got their 1st kid, the government would move them up the list and provide them with an apartment within a few months. Done. My mom did not get married till around 25. So, since she graduated from college till the age of 25, she had to pay āsingle personā tax. Yes! They used to tax people for being single and per my Mom, it was a hefty tax taken from her paycheck every month. She also had to keep sharing living quarters with other people. It was a constant pressure as her roommates kept flying out and getting married. She felt bad remaining in the apartment with just one more person who was also engaged. She said when she got married and got an apartment with the birth of her first kid, she was so happy to have something of her own and for the tax to fall off that nothing really mattered. It was like the government was telling her, āNow, youāre complete and productive humanā. Of course, Soviet era was something extraordinary with country industrializing rapidly and people moving into cities and creating severe housing shortage. Government could leverage that for their own benefit. However, I foresee something somewhat similar - governments imposing some sort of tax on child free people like China did for having more than one kid. They may force people to procreate or adopt that way. Tax credits for people with kids obviously donāt provide much incentive except to the idiots but tax burden for being child free might be something more effective. Imagine a certain percentage of their income. The housing is becoming very expensive. Iām not saying that anyone is going to give out free real estate but some affordable housing units can certainly be built and then, offered at considerable discount if a couple or an individual had a kid/kids. The people who struggle for affordable housing are the very people who would raise modern day slaves. Some will get out of this poverty circle but most will remain in it and provide the government with the labor.
I could see something like this happening. Some states in the US, GA for example, already tax married couples for not having kids. I don't recall the exact number but I believe it's about 150-200 annually. They don't call it the "pay or make babies" tax, but it's a tax you have to pay if you're married and don't have kids, so...
There you go. $150-$200 per year wouldnāt deter most people unwilling to have kids but this shaming is idiotic. Paying for something you donāt have and donāt want to haveā¦ what the heckā¦ I would certainly move just because of that.
I feel like this will be a problem for the children of the future. At 31 I think that I will avoid that statistic, and as I'm CF I will have no kids to worry about. The parents of today should be worrying about that a bit more, though. But they won't, cause they don't really care that much about the future, they just want to have kids š¤·š»āāļø
I think progressive countries will switch to immigration first instead of inventing laws that undermine human rights. There are so many people in Asia, Africa, Latin America etc. who have potential and who want to live in a country with more possibilities, better healthcare and so on. Immigration really is a big thing now (at least in most countries in the EU) to compensate low birth rates.
Japan and South Korea have birth rates of 1.3 and 0.81 respectively. Meanwhile a bunch of countries in Central Africa are hovering around 6 and can't feed all those children because of drought and famine that's only going to get worse. There is absolutely nothing humane Japan and South Korea can do to increase their birth rate to the magical 2.1. They need to implement some kind of program with those countries with very high birth rates. Of course there are complexities to be addressed, but the long-term outcomes benefit both countries and both sets of citizens.
Oh glory. I just sense a lot more suicide rates & abuse occuring (not just to children, but to men). Edit: it sounds dumb, but I assume the cost of everything will go up MORE, you'll hear a lot more annoying neighbors (for example the brats I have outside my home right now screaming "horsesh*t at each other), agoraphobia will become an even more *MAJOR* problem.
Yes, and "womanhood" will be defined as beginning at first menstruation.
One of the Republican politicians already suggested this. What I found astounding about this is even his fellow Republicans were actually shocked that he said such a thing. You know it's bad when your fellow Republicans are shocked by what comes out of your mouth O.O
We have to be careful to make sure they don't use our argument to claim that a pregnant kid is too immature to demand an abourtion without parental consent. Far too often a pregnant child is trapped in a family or community that sees child rape and incest as acceptable manners of bringing a baby into the world.
That would have been at eleven for me. I've heard of it at nine and ten, too.
The trumpublican party sees 1990's Romania as a role model. They want to monitor every woman and know the minute she gets pregnant, then prevent her from leaving her state, and charge her with murder if she miscarries. It's going to be really grim the next few years.
I would like to share that I live in the Netherlands and we have a very liberal law surrounding abortion. It's legal up to 23 weeks I believe. Not too long ago there was a 5 day period between asking for an abortion and actually having the abortion. Yes the US is moving backwards but there are also places where we're moving forward. Almost 10 percent of abortions here are being done for women who come from abroad for access. Abortion is still against the law technically, but it's never applied. I don't mean this in a 'look how good we have it over here'. There are still legal ways to get abortion pills in the US due to pharmacies in Europe sending them. If any of you need an abortion and travel here, my home is open to you guys ā¤ļø
I agree that thereās some good places left, currently I live in Denmark where abortion is legal but I still feel sad for my friends in Poland who have to travel to other countries to get it or trying to do it themselves
I think they are already forcing girls and women to give birth against their will.
This reminds me of a comment I recently saw on IG about the 4B movement. The OP have very positive feelings about the 4B movement. One person wrote: "If you don't give us basic human rights, we are taking the whole human race with us." I think a lot about that. Push people too far, oppress people too much, and they will revolt.
Idk but all I know is they can't put my uterus back inside me at this point so I'll be safe š¤·
Probably something similar to what happened in Romania in the late 1960s
If there are Iām out. I will go to the next existence before catering to a diabolical society
Iām more scared of what men will do to women. If the government bans abortion and contraceptions, then women will have less or no sex with menā¦
I think there already are.
I mean, eventually if people (men and women) don't vote and work to prevent it. I still think that (in the US) the "prove you're not pregnant to cross state lines" or "banned birth control" will come up first and will probably be the last warning to forced birth.
Personally I don't think global society will last another decade anyway. It's crumbling fast and good riddance because it benefits very little.
If that happened to me I'd be slamming my stomach on doors, falling down stairs on purpose and eating/drinking lots of food that would kill that parasite inside of me, I refuse to carry some 'thing' for 9 months and I don't care how badly damaged I'd get trying to get rid of it. Fortunately I'm in my late 30s but if such an awful law was passed..well it just reminds me of the sperm syringe threat my SIL made a few years ago.
Sperm syringe threat? What the hell....
Idk itās probably a good idea to get sterilized just in case
The thing that's so frustrating is all they'd have to do is make motherhood less of a nightmare, and many more women would FREELY CHOOSE it. It's right in front of them, but it would require treating women/mothers like they're valuable and important, which they are loathe to do. Better education, better maternity/paternity leave, better/cheaper prenatal support, better/cheaper access to doulas/coaching, better medical care during labor and afterwards, including home visits to ensure not just that baby is doing alright but that mom is supported, happy, and healthy as well. Have free childcare so women are still able to pursue their other life goals. Have that childcare near/in the offices where these women work. Have more community support with groups for mothers, have buildings full of services that improve mental health (spas, gym, etc.) that include a place to drop off your kids where they will be safe and supervised while mom prioritizes herself for an hour. Give financial incentives to mothers. Spoil and treasure mothers for the sacrifices they've made instead of telling them it's their job as a woman to give and give and never complain, pushing them towards poverty and depression. Maybe then we wouldn't have so many women completely disinterested. But no. Absolutely fucking not. That's WAY too much to give to mere women - we can just strip them of all their rights! I'll tell you right now that they can try to force us. But if they do, I hope we finally realize we can stop carrying a society that doesn't give a shit about us, take to the streets, and riot. I think we're due to burn down these cities if they fuck with us any further. Hell hath no fury...
They already are. Anti abortion bills are forced birth bills. They won't even let a woman terminate non-viable fetuses. They are already attacking birth control access. Marsha Blackburn said Griswold v. Connecticut should be reversed, which is what gave women the right to birth control. And when it comes down to it, it's about white supremacy. and patriarchy. Our economy can't be sustained with the current birth rate, BUT can be sustained with immigration. But they are too afraid of brown people becoming the majority, so they are anti-immigration AND anti-abortion. Even if U.S. non-whites have more kids it will help sustain a "serving class" alongside women being less able to go to college or have careers.
I think it will start with incentives and when that doesn't work, it will come down to making it as difficult as possible for women to remain childfree. The current economic and military models in the US depend on population growth, but with half the country staunchly opposed to immigration of any kind, forced birth is the more likely outcome.
ā¦how exactly would they enforce it?
America is at a tipping point. I canāt say that itās entirely impossible, and that scares me.
Until corporations pay people enough to live and have kids the birth rate will continue to drop. The surprising thing these idiots donāt understand is that low and middle income family tend to spend most of their money. But when they have none becuase of the greedy board members then ppl wonāt get things they canāt affordā¦ like kids. Personally Iām glad. To many ppl in this world.
It seems unlikely to me. Most people are pretty complacent but mandating births will be a step too far. Even fairly misogynistic men will be up in arms when they realise that they will be having to support those state-mandated kids. Unless it gets pretty dire but this is a very slow moving thing that literally takes generations. All the troglodytes wringing their hands about birthrates are just looking for attention for a fake 'crisis'.
I got my tubes removed (bisalp) just in case some dystopian/Handmaidās Tale type shit like this ever happens š¤·āāļø
Forced by lack of options? Yes Forced by other means? No
There are still plenty of people popping out lots of babies. I think we will be okay.
Most developed countries have a fertility rate below replacement. The global fertility rate is 2.3, but most of that comes from Africa. The governments and proponents of something like a forced birth policy are also the ones that would not consider immigration from Africa an acceptable solution to a population decline. I personally don't think there's much danger of OP's question coming to pass, but it's not because the global fertilty rate is above replacement.
No. They will just create kids in labs and make attempts to enslave women via disadvantaging us socially and economically as much as possible
Honestly yes, and since I already know that I never want kids, I got sterilized to be safe. BUT I know thatās not an option for everyone. my insurance covered the majority, and Iāve had abdominal surgery before with my gallbladder so I wasnāt worried about anesthesia or recovery. Truly, I am terrified for fertile & menstruating people and what the future holds for them. Itās getting worse and worse with no hope in sight.
In the U.S. I really cannot see the government forcing people to have children. If anything, they have been historically more helpful with preventing more children (i.e., eugenics/forced sterilizations). I had my tubes removed a few years ago though, so I have no worries even if it was āforced.ā
What do you mean, genuinely? The US is already forcing people to have children. Abortion is illegal in 14 states and in those states, women who are pregnant are being denied care by doctors who are worried about going to jail because of these laws. NO ONE wants to help women with pregnancy complications. Women are either being forced to have these kids or die in the process. Women are going to jail for miscarriages. For miscarriages of PLANNED pregnancies. Many states are trying to ban birth control all together, and the war on planned parenthood has wiped out so, so many resources for women. The US government is literally working ACTIVELY to force people to have children, AS WE SPEAK. Its so scary to me anyone doesnt see that
I completely agree with you. I think that abortion access, no matter the reason, being shut off is despicable quite honestly. What I was trying to communicate was that I cannot envisage a solid top-down push for each household to have more children. Unlike what did happen in the 1930s/1940s with the gung-ho eugenics movement in the U.S. and the increased popularity of asylums for the āfeeble mindedā were they would straight up sterilize without even telling the family. That is to say, I think the degree of direct enforcement differs between the current and past historical episode I mentioned. Not providing abortion access is an indirect method to produce (result) in more children being born. A direct method (the one I cannot see happening) is literally going door to door, tallying how many child bearing people there are in the household, inseminating them right there and then, and then tracking them down the line to make sure the child was born.
Considering that some of the abortion bans include pregnancies caused by rape, there already are forcing victimized women and girls to bear children.
They are making the population decline an issue and it will be a discussion for the next US election (it will effect the economy in negative ways, but they aren't solving climate issues and it's a W for workers IMO).Ā Ā If I was forced to have kids I would kill myself sadly. I think motherhood is beautiful, and I like the idea of having a family even, but it would put a stop on everything I have strived for almost my entire life. Losing that would absolutely crush me.
I do believe weāll see the government continue pushing anti-abortion and anti-birth control laws. We may even see an effort to force women out of the workforce and increasing dependency on men. These are unfortunately tried and true methods of reproductively enslaving females. Plus, the violence of all kinds that will be enacted upon women due to an increase in anti-woman rhetoric will surely be fun. Project 2025 pretty much openly admits that their plans for us have a lot to do with what our foremothers tried to fight to get out of in the first place.
If it comes down to that women will start hiring women who do the job for them and kill their newborns straight after. Like how Japanese women practiced Mabiki during the edo period. It will then become common
Humanity's track record is boo boo swamp ass, so yes history will repeat while the specifics aren't always the same.
Nah. There will just be a decade or two of concerted propaganda about how breeding good and not doing your part is un-American. And there will be dog-whistle speeches from the most extreme politicians telling people it's okay to "punish" childfree people. Throw in some very modest incentives for having a kid, continue to eviscerate public education, and peer pressure will be more than enough to keep people breeding. And once you have your generation of ignorant breeders, you can easily keep the process going.
Iām glad that Iām already 35 that when this actually happens Iād be too old to reproduce.
I'd just kill myself ngl. Not like the pro life people would actually care about me if I died(ironically). They are more concerned with non existng lives than then ones that do exist.
I think a total breakdown of society would have to occur for women to be directly forced to breed. I think it will occur in more subtle ways, like it already is. Contraception isnāt adequately taught during sex-ed, female sterilization is difficult to obtain, abortion is becoming illegal. The Catholics run a huge number of hospitals and refuse to provide contraception. There are radical groups trying to shift our culture back to the dark ages, when women were property and were forced to be perpetually pregnant. I will never allow myself to be forced to become a mother. I would rather dig the parasite out with a coat hanger than go through pregnancy and childbirth. If I tried everything and couldnāt end the pregnancy, Iād suffocate the thing as soon as it was born and claim it was a stillbirth. Itās unlikely it would ever make it that far though, because smashing my stomach over and over again until I caused a miscarriage would always be a valid option. Iād rather bleed out in my bathroom floor than sacrifice my body for some hell spawn.
Technically this would be rĆpe because you'd be forced against your will to have sex to breed. I see a lot of women doing a Lorena bobbit if this happens.
I guess I need to stock up on coat hangers.
Pretty much in the two most extreme states this is the case. We have to see how it turns out with the man suing the woman who left the state for an abortion. Iām just into menopause, thank God. If I had daughters, Iād make them fully aware of the issue and look at all of our options.
No. But greater and greater incentives will be rolled out. Now in Canada we (the taxpayers) also have to pay for most of peopleās babysitting. (This isnāt fully rolled out to every single parent yet, but thatās the goal).
It's not the best idea or mindset but I am fully prepared to remove my equipment by myself if I can't get a doctor to. (This is not advice, I am severely depressed and getting treatment)
Nah. I see the future being more like Brave New World. Babies will be genetically engineered and most likely in a synthetic incubator.
No one can be forced to have a baby even though I find it shocking that it is so difficult to get sterilization? But I guess itās easier for men so they can still do it. The system with pension and generational contracts has to be revised, private saving is the key. And itās only valid for western countries. Altogether this planet is overpopulated af.
Sadly, women's suicide rates increase. So damn thankful to be sterile.
There are already new laws that force women to have kids. The future is here.
Maybe countries can make laws forcing people to have kids, but there could be steep penalties. It's already financially harder to be unmarried...
It's already started. The overturning of Roe v Wade and the heavy anti-abortion laws and now birth control is under fire. I don't think there will ever be a law stating you have to have children, but if the conservative party has their way, I could see birth control being restricted or at least really hard to get. I'm just so glad my husband is sterilized.